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Virtuozzo
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.08.02 12:36:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Atticus Fynch
The BIG question is: What is CCP going to do about this bad publicity?
And
Is it going to get worse?
It is not by any means certain that it is bad publicity. If there is soap involved, it tends to be good for EVE. Don't ask me why, but soap being thrown on a floor in EVE seems to attract a lot of people (yes, bad mental images now). But ... this stream of publicity has drama yes, but no soap (or let's put it this way, the soap is not among the subscribers - unlike past historic events).
That being said, the current publicity is more something of a challenge then anything else really. A challenge to CCP to pick up on, or ... not, as for example seen recently in a notification by CCP to GVD where the message was without context and to a high degree in conflict with other context resulting in it being written off as "lolmarketing" (to mirror the "lolcustomers" sentiment of old. With corresponding and self explanatory results of making the situation worse.
It's not too dissimilar such reactions to these events as patterns among game niches themselves. Where EVE has always had and will always have "lag" issues (it IS just like the eternal race between the armour and the bullet) but where this perception affect merely one or two game niches, nowadays the sentiment of consequences has spread over a wider variety of game niches. Even those which were guaranteed to be iterated upon at the time, in order to build upon it for the immersion and the experience. Sure people stick with it, because they want to believe and it is still perfectly possible for people to have their comfort zones, but this is an awareness process which grows across niches nonetheless - similar to how EVE itself grew originally.
To keep it simple, they can take it as a challenge of marketing and managing expectation management (look it up, it's a very worrying syndrome in enterprise development signalling severe bottlenecks on communication and segregation), or as a challenge to open eyes & ears and get to work with looking at both the road and the horizon.
≡v≡ once was about internet spaceships. Then those became serious business.
Now all that's left, serious business, and spaceships are docked for two years till after the Dust of Incarna. |
dtyk
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Posted - 2010.08.02 12:41:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Mr Epeen
And the vocal minority wins again 
Some times the minority is right.
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END GRAVE
Caldari
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2010.08.02 13:56:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Iazma Moroi
In this opinion piece over at Massively EVE Evolved: Dissent in the EVE community Brendan Drain has something to say.
Ever here the term "any publicity is good publicity."? This is the perfect example, its free advertising for the game, its like when you see the stories about the mega heists that happen from time to time, and the greifing that happens in the game, its because its so unique, while yes things are broken and neglected in eve, you havent stopped playing, you havent ended your subscription, so give CCP a break, this game is and has always been something of a work in progress.
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Spaceman Jack
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Posted - 2010.08.02 13:56:00 -
[34]
I, sadly, must agree
I don't know where the DEVs got the idea that MOST EVE players want WIS... BS.
Im not feeling EVE lately, too many partial features ATM.
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John Holt
Caldari
Celtic Dragon's
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Posted - 2010.08.02 14:11:00 -
[35]
Except for the lag, I'm pleased with where EVE is. There are bugs, yes, but CCP will get to them after Incarna.
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BrundleMeth
Caldari
Temporal Mechanics
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Posted - 2010.08.02 14:19:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Atticus Fynch
The BIG question is: What is CCP going to do about this bad publicity?
Likely nothing. at all...
Quote:
And
Is it going to get worse?
Probably. But I doub't that will change anything...
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Lord XSiV
Amarr
Digital Research - Omega Protocol
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Posted - 2010.08.02 14:26:00 -
[37]
Originally by: John Holt
Except for the lag, I'm pleased with where EVE is. There are bugs, yes, but CCP will get to them after Incarna.
Highly unlikely - they will leave them to the entity that acquires CCP.
It will be quite a bit of time for those fixes as the acquirer will first have to fire all the dead weight and bring back the programmers that CCP alienated over the years.
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Galan Amarias
Amarr
Kantian Principle
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Posted - 2010.08.02 15:11:00 -
[38]
All the eve is broken threads remind me of the don't kill nano threads. I didn't agree with those either.
-Galan
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Nuadi
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Posted - 2010.08.02 15:18:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Lord XSiV
the entity that acquires CCP.
Do you have a source for that?
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.08.02 15:37:00 -
[40]
Quote:
There's nothing in the history of CCP that shows that they have the ability to finish any feature.
When they write opinion pieces for outside sources do they consider the source, such as the obviously incorrect above quote?
This is clearly a signature. |
Daisuke Aoki
Gallente
Independent Coalition
OWN Alliance
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Posted - 2010.08.02 15:37:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Mr Epeen
And the vocal minority wins again
I doubt it's a minority of people that's upset, and even if it is, then it's the silent majority's fault for remaining silent.
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BrundleMeth
Caldari
Temporal Mechanics
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Posted - 2010.08.02 15:41:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Daisuke Aoki
Originally by: Mr Epeen
And the vocal minority wins again
I doubt it's a minority of people that's upset, and even if it is, then it's the silent majority's fault for remaining silent.
Rediculous. More crapping just means they push their fingers deeper in their ears...
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Gladys Pank
Amarr
Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2010.08.02 15:47:00 -
[43]
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Some of us are QUITE HAPPY AND CONTENT with the direction of the game. Feel free to whine and ***** but do it ON YOUR BEHALF, not "90% of the population" .
Please speak for yourself when asking others to speak for themselves.
Signature locked for inappropriate image. Zymurgist |
Apollo Gabriel
Domini Lex Talionis
Etherium Cartel
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Posted - 2010.08.02 16:58:00 -
[44]
The forum player base has clearly stated they want Ambulation/WiS/Incarna since 2006. The "I don't want Incarna" is a new sentiment. I am going to be bold and try to summarize the sentiment as
"I don't want Incarna if it means I can't fight for 18 months"
Please try to keep your complaints focused. The "vocal minority" used to say it will never happen, etc.
State what you want people, and if you REALLY don't want Incarna at all, please be clear as to why.
Best,
Apollo
TO CCP: The implicit promise of polished quality keeps me playing through the rough times.
Don't let the Trolls keep you from your goals. |
Jordan Musgrat
H A V O C
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.08.02 17:50:00 -
[45]
You idiots are completely, absolutely kidding yourself if you think that it's only a "minority" that are upset with the direction of the game. You're also ******ed. For every person that actually thinks that complaining on the forums will do anything, I promise you, there are 50 that have learned that CCP ignores its forums and anyone who complains. I've not seen anyone I know complain on the forums, so I know of a good nother few hundred people who are discontent. In fact, I would guess that the people that are discontent are the 0.0 players who get hit the hardest by this. So I'd guess that if there are 25k people playing the game, a good 15k of them are very unhappy, but have better things to do than come here and argue with you ******s.
-----------
Primary is family values, secondary is 0.0... |
Syn Callibri
Minmatar
Blacklight Incorporated
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Posted - 2010.08.02 17:55:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Syn Callibri on 02/08/2010 17:56:12
Originally by: Jordan Musgrat
You idiots are completely, absolutely kidding yourself if you think that it's only a "minority" that are upset with the direction of the game. You're also ******ed. For every person that actually thinks that complaining on the forums will do anything, I promise you, there are 50 that have learned that CCP ignores its forums and anyone who complains. I've not seen anyone I know complain on the forums, so I know of a good nother few hundred people who are discontent. In fact, I would guess that the people that are discontent are the 0.0 players who get hit the hardest by this. So I'd guess that if there are 25k people playing the game, a good 15k of them are very unhappy, but have better things to do than come here and argue with you ******s.
Point of order...a lot of the "tards" your whining about went to the industry instead of the forums, or haven't you figured that out yet?
Syn Callibri
Ilharess of the Scorpion Tribe
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Marcus Vorenius
Caldari
Citadel Enterprise
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Posted - 2010.08.02 18:01:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Apollo Gabriel
Massively Article
I disagree with the article /snip
agree - it is too 'wordy' and the conclusion is ... well, somewhere between 1) not supporting the long winded text or 2) non exsistent
sitting on the fence will get you impaled if you sit there long enough .... wussie
______
Blog: "Lessons Learned from New Eden" - why you should add EVE to your CV/resume |
Florio
Miniature Giant Space Hamsters
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Posted - 2010.08.02 18:09:00 -
[48]
Heard of the 7-year itch? It's not just marriages then :)
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.08.02 18:12:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Syn Callibri
Point of order...players went to the industry too, or haven't you figured that out yet?
While what you say is true, you also can't say that it's a strict "empire vs 0.0" divide. Almost everyone in 0.0 is upset, and lots of people living in lowsec are too. And then to boot, many of us have more than one highsec alt to support our 'mains'. I'd be surprised if the empire representation of a lowsec/0.0 alliance isn't at least as big as the alliance itself.
-Liang
--
Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
On Twitter
Blog
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Syn Callibri
Minmatar
Blacklight Incorporated
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Posted - 2010.08.02 18:23:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Syn Callibri on 02/08/2010 18:24:16
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Syn Callibri
Point of order...players went to the industry too, or haven't you figured that out yet?
While what you say is true, you also can't say that it's a strict "empire vs 0.0" divide. Almost everyone in 0.0 is upset, and lots of people living in lowsec are too. And then to boot, many of us have more than one highsec alt to support our 'mains'. I'd be surprised if the empire representation of a lowsec/0.0 alliance isn't at least as big as the alliance itself.
-Liang
^
^
^
^
This...Hi-Sec...Lo-Sec...Null-Sec...we're all FRAKED in the end.
Syn Callibri
Ilharess of the Scorpion Tribe
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Amanda Mor
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.08.02 18:54:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Jordan Musgrat
You idiots are completely, absolutely kidding yourself if you think that it's only a "minority" that are upset with the direction of the game. You're also ******ed. For every person that actually thinks that complaining on the forums will do anything, I promise you, there are 50 that have learned that CCP ignores its forums and anyone who complains. I've not seen anyone I know complain on the forums, so I know of a good nother few hundred people who are discontent. In fact, I would guess that the people that are discontent are the 0.0 players who get hit the hardest by this. So I'd guess that if there are 25k people playing the game, a good 15k of them are very unhappy, but have better things to do than come here and argue with you ******s.
I'm gonna have fun with made up numbers too!!
Ex. 1: for every 1 person who *****es on the forums, there are 100 people who think the game is fine, and realize that responding to "eve sucks" threads is pointless
Ex. 2: I'd say for every 25k people in the world, there's always at least 1,000 of them that are upset about something, and thinks the whole world should listen. At least 500 of them will believe they speak for the whole community.
Ex. 3: 75% of statistics are made up, but only 35% of people realize it.
----------------------------------------------
I don't have an alt, but there's a main that would be upset if he heard me say that... |
Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.08.02 19:28:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Jordan Musgrat
You idiots are completely, absolutely kidding yourself if you think that it's only a "minority" that are upset with the direction of the game. You're also ******ed. For every person that actually thinks that complaining on the forums will do anything, I promise you, there are 50 that have learned that CCP ignores its forums and anyone who complains. I've not seen anyone I know complain on the forums, so I know of a good nother few hundred people who are discontent. In fact, I would guess that the people that are discontent are the 0.0 players who get hit the hardest by this. So I'd guess that if there are 25k people playing the game, a good 15k of them are very unhappy, but have better things to do than come here and argue with you ******s.
Because all stats made up on the internet are automatically true.
This is clearly a signature. |
Saehta
Sigillum Militum Xpisti
R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.08.02 19:40:00 -
[53]
The only way your are going to get CCP to address the issue is in getting the word out to gaming sites such as linked in the OP. Well done and lets continue on. CCP has already tried to squelch the issue with statements about lag being the #1 priority when we know that clearly Incarna, with its allocations of developers, is really the top of the list.
Continue on with our message
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Zartrader
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Posted - 2010.08.02 19:42:00 -
[54]
Strong sense of entitlement, no change there then. And no one speaks for me so if anyone says 'the players' blah blah' then count me out or you're being dishonest.
I can see CCP closing ranks on this and not bothering to communicate any more, as all other game companies I know have already done. It takes too much effort for a lot of flack.
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Zartrader
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Posted - 2010.08.02 19:48:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Saehta
The only way your are going to get CCP to address the issue is in getting the word out to gaming sites such as linked in the OP. Well done and lets continue on. CCP has already tried to squelch the issue with statements about lag being the #1 priority when we know that clearly Incarna, with its allocations of developers, is really the top of the list.
Continue on with our message
That's complete rubbish. You think CCP are sitting on their hands doing nothing, seriously? You seriously think throwing more developers at a problem will magically fix it? You seriously think all developers have the same skill sets and can actually contribute without getting in the way?
All this will do is make CCP realise a proportion of their player base with no technical knowledge are given far too much space to make their wild claims with no sense of responsibility , moderation or care about facts.
Saying something repeatedly does not make it true.
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Saehta
Sigillum Militum Xpisti
R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.08.02 19:57:00 -
[56]
I don't need to list my credentials to you or my research, neither is this the topic for it. You are correct though. Saying something repeatedly does not make it true and the same goes to putting words in my mouth through your repetitious and sarcastic questions.
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Meeko Atari
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Posted - 2010.08.02 20:13:00 -
[57]
If CCP announced that in the next expansion they would fix all or give serious attention to issues plaguing the community...But you would have to pay for the expansion... I would
I would also pay to not release Incarna until current game play issues are fixed.
Fix what's broken then release new stuff
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Dr Reinhold
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Posted - 2010.08.02 22:31:00 -
[58]
Given the nature of EvE as a cut-throat economic combat sim, I find it a bit amusing how many people expect CCP to forego expanding their player base in favor of concentrating solely on the parts of EvE that they personally enjoy the most. Not everybody in the universe is you and likes what you like. And chances are, those who are as yet unrealized potential customers will want something very different from what you currently have. Otherwise they would be here already.
On the other hand I don't want to see them throw a good thing away in the existing player base. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush after all. I want to see them fix the lag as the absolute first priority. That much better not be a bunch of smoke and mirrors, but as someone pointed out earlier lag and performance issues are not solved by throwing more and more people at a problem. Performance issues tend to exist at deeper levels of the system architecture and tend to have a spider web of interdependencies. This means you don't put lots of average people on the problem. You put your absolute best guys with a wide range of competence together in a single team and you give them what every they demand. What ever testing, system and coding resources they need. If they need someone's time, they get it. If they demand hookers and pizza they ge... well, almost everything. Probably that too. CCP giving a single team carte blanche sounds like they are doing the right thing so long as that team answers directly to an executive high enough up the ladder to make the things that need to happen actually happen. We will see, but I think CCP will come though on this. Lag and performance along with old-timers taking off is the kind of thing that scares away new customers and what they want the most is not just new customers but more customers overall.
So complaining about Incarna and Dust is not going to make them go away but they may not be the bad news carebear assault that you think they are. I have a theory that CCP is well aware that if they take too much of the hardcore edge of the PvP game away they will loose their oldtimers and oldtimers cannot be easily replaced. People stick with MMOs, even ones with serious problems for a long time because they have years invested in a character. They keep coming back because of that investment. If you loose someone forever the nub that replaced him might or might not stick around, and who will teach the nub to love the game. CCP understands this.
So how do you carve out a carebear corner of the universe for new people without dumbing down the whole game? (cough*WoW*cough) Imagine if they instead created a separate game based on EvE that was all about traveling from safe spacestation to safe planetary starbase, running missions for people, delivering small items or messages, setting up stores and bars and factories and repair shops all in a walk around set of almost endless environments. Now imagine connecting this game to a first person shooter that let you get some good combat fix by shooting alien critters or going to combat zones that allowed you to fight people from, I don't know, say other empire factions?
Now that is certainly not EvE. Way too safe. But it would be a very fun space game for a lot of people. But put that game into the pre existing EvE universe and suddenly you have a way to bring in new players using a PvE only environment. Not only that but you have a place for EvE carebears to retreat to when they feel like it. And for some, they will explore this PvE, probably empire limited universe and then discover the life of a capsuleer and possibly never turn back.
I really doubt Incarna is going to be a glorified set of station isolated chat rooms. That could have been done long ago. Given how many people have on it and how long it has and will take, it will be a good bit bigger, it will be almost a parallel game.
And hopefully it will be way to grow the game without dumbing our part down.
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LHA Tarawa
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Posted - 2010.08.02 23:48:00 -
[59]
The massivly article got one thing right.
It is a miscommunication issue between CCP and the CSM.
See, the CSM thinks that it exists to provide CCP information on what players want fixed so that CCP can fix it.
In actuality, the CSM exists to make player FEEL like they are being listened to, so that CCP doesn't have to actually fix the things players complain about.
As much as they stomp their feet and complain to the video game mews outlets, the existing players are not really going to emo-rage quit. Therefore, CCP is free to ignore their rants while they milk them for the money needed to develop new content to bring in more customers.
Thing is, virtually every software company works this way.
The product I work on, we get issue reports from customers, and if it more than a couple minutes to fix and doesn't overlap with other stuff e're working on, we assign it to PM for prioritization. We do this knowing that PM will do NOTHING with it for a good 6 months when it will eventually be closed with some BS excuse about "not a priority". We actually call this, asigning it to PM's "circle file" or sending it to the balck hole (from which nothing ever escapes).
Usually about 90% are closed and forgotten. But, there are some that the customers have not yet accepted their fait and they'll demand the issue be reopened... So we reopen it and let it sit another 6 months before closing it again... repeat.
The only way customer issues every really get fixed is if they threaten a law suit or they cancel their support agreement.... at which time sales will elevate the issue to a code red, we stop working on new features, and fix their issue. I think we did 6 of these so far this year.....
.... short of actual revenue being attached to the issue, we mostly work on new features.
We have the existing customers' money, so there is no RoI making them happier. The RoI comes from new customers, and that means new products and new features.
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Xiang Jiao
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Posted - 2010.08.02 23:48:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Illwill Bill
From a business perspective, I can understand most of the descicions here; new revenue is good, even though it is driven by greed.
Greed, for lack of a better word, is good. Greed is right. Greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures, the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Greed, in all of its forms; greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge, has marked the upward surge of mankind and greed, you mark my words, will not only save CCP, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the Republic of Iceland.
Who could have predicted Iceland would be saved by the same sin that almost bankrupted it two years ago? I can taste the irony.
I don't think that, at the core, the business of CCP is greed. They want to put out a great game that players will enjoy, but there is some disagreement about which parts of the game are actually being enjoyed. The business is way out of touch with the customer, especially if by their metrics there is nothing wrong with game latency. I got session change/grid load bugs on a 12 man Black Ops roam last week in Fountain. Not super terrible lag, but enough to cause concern and allow a Pilgrim to get taken down with ease on an un-bubbled gate camp. I ended up in the middle of nowhere after a covert cyno.
Until people start canceling subs and not buying/re-selling PLEX, the business will continue to think we are content with the game. I resubbed all my accounts for a year right around the Dominion release so I am stuck trying to find enjoyment in the game play for another four months. I may just pick up a new game and skill train until the subscriptions run out.
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