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raidnkill
Rache-Engel
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Posted - 2010.08.05 07:47:00 -
[1]
They're unbeatable!!
dammit
We brought out 4 battleships against their 2, we lost 3 battleships.
Reason being that they had 6 so called "neutrals" remote repping them.
How would u have countered them in such a situation?
clearly, shooting them gives them the right to shoot u.
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Ralnik
Mutineers
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Posted - 2010.08.05 08:03:00 -
[2]
The best way to beat a Docking Bear is to just ignore them and do other things til they get bored.
Easiest thing to do is leave the station undock and head out to low sec. The typical types that use armies of neural logistics in station humping high sec games, never have the balls to enter low sec.
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Space Wanderer
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Posted - 2010.08.05 08:18:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: raidnkill
We brought out 4 battleships against their 2, we lost 3 battleships.
Reason being that they had 6 so called "neutrals" remote repping them.
So in essence you are saying "we were 4 against 8 and we lost". Not particularly surprising if you think about it. Forget about the RR battleships being neutral, if they support the enemy they ARE the enemy. Since you can attack them that is very true.
If you were aware of the "neutrals" presence and you accepted battle anyway, that was your choice. If you were NOT aware of them, it seems to me you fell into a trap.
How to counter that? Off the top of my head, if you have enough people/alts reciprocate in kind, if you are outnumbered keep at least one guy in reserve with a blackbird or another ECM ship, ready to jam the pointers so you can at least escape (you are outnumbered, a draw for you is a half-victory).
In essence, reciprocate as much as possible, and if you can't, just accept the fact that you are outnumbered and adopt the proper tactics.
Or hire some mercs to do the dirty job for you.
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Starnap
Concentrated Evil
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Posted - 2010.08.05 11:13:00 -
[4]
You thought you outnumbered them so you engaged.
Turns out they outnumbered you so they won.
This is known as pvp in Eve.
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Darcon Kylote
Terminal Impact
Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2010.08.05 11:44:00 -
[5]
The first time I see a war target do this, we just stop engaging them on station. Ambush them on gates, probe them down, lure them to a planet/mission gate, etc, but do not fight on stations.
--
Terminal Impact is recruiting PVPers for fun ops in lowsec/0.0/wormhole space. Visit our website or join ingame channel "the tict pub". |
Dunn Idaho
Caldari
Core Impulse
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Posted - 2010.08.05 13:36:00 -
[6]
Bring some triage, + ecm drones problem solved.
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Donny Maurasi
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Posted - 2010.08.05 15:45:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Dunn Idaho
Bring some triage, + ecm drones problem solved.
If you figure out a way to cyno triage carriers into Dodixie, let me know..
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local 81
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Posted - 2010.08.05 17:37:00 -
[8]
Edited by: local 81 on 05/08/2010 17:42:50
Edited by: local 81 on 05/08/2010 17:42:09
Edited by: local 81 on 05/08/2010 17:40:14
From waht Ive seen so far,
your fleet composition is what you need to change. ecm falcons to jam the repping neuts, also fit up a bunch of stealth bombers with dampeners. if you take away their target range, and jam them, what can they do but warp out, dock or sit there waiting to pass a jam. You should fleet up a dozen of pilots at least, when at war and are preparing to engage any WT. Even if there is only one target outside! more times than none, they have a plan, or should have, and they should have backup... also, work your local chat more. do better research on the war-targets. they are obviously alts or friends.
when I want to research a WT, I use battle-clinic, the WT's corp or alliance KB, Local, Locator agents, and any spies you may have a potential grasp on, to relay or provide the info Im looking for. Yes you can see the recent activity searching the KB of a player, also will show who they were fighting with!, they could be potential alts or friends or alliance members.
You should have cyno capabilities, and have a second fleet waiting to jump in on a notice, in case you need backup...
Try to advoid engaging on gates and stations unless they are coming to you, and you have the system to yourselves... use luring tactics... set bait. use deep safes and use more than two.... and never stay still in one safe for more than 30 sec.... YES YOU CAN BE PROBED DOWN IN 30 SECONDS!!!
More and more, be better prepared, do your research!!!! the better intel you have, the more guys in your fleet you will get kills for and you'll manage to keep them alive. my .02 flysfe, and gl.
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NoLimit Soldier
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Posted - 2010.08.05 20:05:00 -
[9]
Quote:
your fleet composition is what you need to change. ecm falcons to jam the repping neuts, also fit up a bunch of stealth bombers with dampeners.
This may work great in low sec but not in high sec. In high sec this is the WORST thing you can do as you not only didn't kill their logistics, they are now coming back in a REAL ship.
In high sec you have three options:
Bring more guys than them this time. They outnumbered you, regardless of how you look at corp lines they brought more men to the field than you.
Out maneuver them. Using neutrals as warp references on a battlefield are GREAT for surprising the hell out of long range support.
Bring your own neutral RR.
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Jones Bones
Final Agony
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Posted - 2010.08.05 20:40:00 -
[10]
Welcome to high sec PVP. Enjoy your stay!
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Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
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Posted - 2010.08.05 21:13:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Emperor Cheney on 05/08/2010 21:14:36
Do what the leet highsec PVP'ers do and spend a lot of RL money. If you bring more RR alts and buy a fancier ship, then you'll win. Unless your opponent spends even more RL money than you do.
Or, you can move to lowsec.
edit to add:
Quote:
Welcome to high sec PVP. Enjoy your stay!
Very well put.
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Esther Ruhamah
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Posted - 2010.08.06 00:45:00 -
[12]
Create instant undock bookmarks for stations you frequent. Use them. Undock with BS fit for sniping, warp to a instant warp undock bookmark at a sniping range, and tee off on them. If they actually move off station to engage you, bring more people and pop the logistics, or just warp-away to do it again.
Could also bring more people.
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Monikerina
Amarr
Macross Space Defense Squadron
The Conglomeration of Ill Advised Ideas
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Posted - 2010.08.06 03:19:00 -
[13]
Don't fight on the station. Most station neutral reppers will not move their alts off the station. Bait them into a fight where their alts can't run, and then drop some ECM on them.
Win.
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Ralnik
Mutineers
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Posted - 2010.08.06 04:46:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Ralnik on 06/08/2010 04:49:16
Originally by: Monikerina
Don't fight on the station. Most station neutral reppers will not move their alts off the station. Bait them into a fight where their alts can't run, and then drop some ECM on them.
Win.
I have no clue who he's fighting but I've yet to ever see a high sec war dec/merc corp that actually moves off stations or gates. They are almost always the same.. too scared to move away from their logistic alts and escape safety net of a gate or station.
It's why I call them "Docking Bears", because it's like PVP for care bears. There are a lot of these types in low sec as well, just typically they don't have as many logistic alts as the high sec guys do.
About the only way to get the average high sec war dec types off a station is to bait them in a mission pretending you are going about your care bearin..
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Schrecklichkeit
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Posted - 2010.08.06 07:28:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Ralnik
I have no clue who he's fighting but I've yet to ever see a high sec war dec/merc corp that actually moves off stations or gates. They are almost always the same.. too scared to move away from their logistic alts and escape safety net of a gate or station.
It's why I call them "Docking Bears", because it's like PVP for care bears. There are a lot of these types in low sec as well, just typically they don't have as many logistic alts as the high sec guys do.
About the only way to get the average high sec war dec types off a station is to bait them in a mission pretending you are going about your care bearin..
I know it's popular to assign morality/legitimacy to tactics and to measure people against some preset notion of honor/chivalry/bushido (and by that, I specifically mean other people, never oneself, at least by the same standards), but really, what's the point? I lol (really, in rl) every time I see ppl make such comments; ofc this means I laugh more or less constantly when I play, but that's why I love eve. Any game is a set of mechanics, you make use of those mechanics to accomplish your goals. Despite most QQ'ers thinking those goals involve killboards in eve, it's usually about the QQ'ing and lolz and that includes people making lolcomments on the forums.
As for station games, 99% of the time your hisec targets are in or on stations, where do you think the wardeccers are going to go? Maybe they should warp to a deep safe spot, perhaps they'll find a random passerby in deep space. You go where the targets are, the only difference between hisec/lowsec/0.0 is where people tend to congregate. Blaming hisec wardeccers for going where their targets are is lolz.
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Ratchman
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Posted - 2010.08.06 08:57:00 -
[16]
In a nutshell, you just have to outnumber them, or use plenty of ECM to disrupt the repping. However, if they have any sense at all, they will just dock the second it looks like they are going to be jammed out.
Fighting on stations is frankly the worst part of PvP, as the vast majority of the time, one party will just dock.
The best way to deal with Docking Bears is just to ignore them. Engaging them is an exercise in futility as the tactics are either dock or overwhelming gank.
If you can lure them away from the docking point and engage them in open space or at a gate, then you should have a much easier time of it. But this is difficult, as they will not leave their position of strength. After all, why should they if you are feeding them easy kills on the station? You have to starve them, make them hungry enough to leave their position of strength, which they will do eventually. But remember, one kill on the station means they will stay there another hour (or more, if they're really paranoid).
Also remember this, these people spend a fortune of real-life money to fund all these alts, just to increase their chances of an easy gank. If I had that kind of disposable, I would spend it getting better ships so I could fight more often. Sure, I'd lose more often, but I'd get more intense action. Docking Bears are risk-adverse creatures too scared to get involved in real combat, because they might actually lose. But spending RL money to gain an advantage is effectively admitting that you cannot engage your opponents without additional resources. Take some pride in the fact that they have to spend at least twice as much as you just to keep up.
As a suggestion, I would like to see a minor change in that activating a remote repper makes it impossible to dock for 5 minutes (but still allow gate activations). This would mean that if they engage on the station, that neutral repper remains red, and cannot dock for a while, giving you ample chance to kill the neutral repper. This will not stop people from using the tactic, but it will make it less of a secure operation. My guess is the vast majority of Docking Bears would abandon the tactic.
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Beto Carneiro
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Posted - 2010.08.06 11:42:00 -
[17]
Maybe you can try alphapwn the logistics with 4 arty maelstrons. |
Ralnik
Mutineers
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Posted - 2010.08.06 18:34:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Schrecklichkeit
I know it's popular to assign morality/legitimacy to tactics and to measure people against some preset notion of honor/chivalry/bushido (and by that, I specifically mean other people, never oneself, at least by the same standards), but really, what's the point? I lol (really, in rl) every time I see ppl make such comments; ofc this means I laugh more or less constantly when I play, but that's why I love eve. Any game is a set of mechanics, you make use of those mechanics to accomplish your goals. Despite most QQ'ers thinking those goals involve killboards in eve, it's usually about the QQ'ing and lolz and that includes people making lolcomments on the forums.
As for station games, 99% of the time your hisec targets are in or on stations, where do you think the wardeccers are going to go? Maybe they should warp to a deep safe spot, perhaps they'll find a random passerby in deep space. You go where the targets are, the only difference between hisec/lowsec/0.0 is where people tend to congregate. Blaming hisec wardeccers for going where their targets are is lolz.
Then you are LOLing for the wrong reasons.. My commits have nothing to do with honor/chivalry/bushido, but rather due to the fact I'm after fun fights that are challenging.
Many people are just kill mail ***** so having all the logistic alts in the world is just fine for them.. Myself, I like to be on the edge of losing my ship and fighting stuff that can actually kill me.
Station humping with logistic alts, is no risk PVP much like blobbing around with 30 people ganking a single target. This is nothing to do with e-honor but the challenge involved.
Some people like playing on easy mode some don't. To me PVP is much more about challenging my capabilities vs getting some easy gank mail, but to each their own. My commits are based on the fact that most high sec war decers tend to fall into the kill mail ***** category whom play on easy mode.
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Schrecklichkeit
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Posted - 2010.08.06 23:54:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Ralnik
Then you are LOLing for the wrong reasons.. My commits have nothing to do with honor/chivalry/bushido, but rather due to the fact I'm after fun fights that are challenging.
Many people are just kill mail ***** so having all the logistic alts in the world is just fine for them.. Myself, I like to be on the edge of losing my ship and fighting stuff that can actually kill me.
Station humping with logistic alts, is no risk PVP much like blobbing around with 30 people ganking a single target. This is nothing to do with e-honor but the challenge involved.
Some people like playing on easy mode some don't. To me PVP is much more about challenging my capabilities vs getting some easy gank mail, but to each their own. My commits are based on the fact that most high sec war decers tend to fall into the kill mail ***** category whom play on easy mode.
lol you don't even realize what you're doing do you? You say "to each their own" but you're implicitly assigning value judgments to a playstyle not your own with phrases that have negative connotations; "station humping" is a good example. Thanks for proving my point and the laugh.
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Taedrin
Gallente
White Haven Corp
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Posted - 2010.08.07 02:38:00 -
[20]
Solution:
Use force multipliers (such as ECM boats) to reduce the effectiveness of your enemy's numerical superiority.
Engage away from stations to put the docking games to rest. Neutral RR can still jump through gates, but they can still be engaged on the other side. Once they are 15km off the gate, they should crumple.
Try bumping the neutral RR off the station so that they can't redock when they get engaged.
Change your strategy entirely: instead of fighting their PvPers, consider engaging their carebears. Find where they run missions and probe them down, or catch them on the gates when their agents sends them out of system.
Or if all else fails, bring your own neutral RR.
----------
Originally by: Dr Fighter
"how do you know when youve had a repro accident"
Theres modules missing and morphite in your mineral pile.
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Ralnik
Mutineers
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Posted - 2010.08.07 04:36:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Schrecklichkeit
lol you don't even realize what you're doing do you? You say "to each their own" but you're implicitly assigning value judgments to a playstyle not your own with phrases that have negative connotations; "station humping" is a good example. Thanks for proving my point and the laugh.
I guess we're even then, because I laugh at people whom hide behind fake forums alts while trolling.
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Schrecklichkeit
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Posted - 2010.08.07 04:51:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Ralnik
I guess we're even then, because I laugh at people whom hide behind fake forums alts while trolling.
You can typically tell when you hit a nerve, because the other party begins using ad hominem arguments, which are logically irrelevant.
Since you still haven't put it together, I'll spell it out for you: You do have a code of e-honor/bushido/whatever, you simply call it something different. You wrap all that nonsense into 'looking for a challenge'. That's nice, but it's no different from any of the others.
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Bronya Boga
Skyforger
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Posted - 2010.08.09 01:27:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Dunn Idaho
Bring some triage, + ecm drones problem solved.
how do you do that?
Originally by: Jones Bones
Welcome to high sec PVP. Enjoy your stay!
this.
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Voith
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Posted - 2010.08.09 04:54:00 -
[24]
Originally by: raidnkill
They're unbeatable!!
dammit
We brought out 4 battleships against their 2, we lost 3 battleships.
Reason being that they had 6 so called "neutrals" remote repping them.
How would u have countered them in such a situation?
clearly, shooting them gives them the right to shoot u.
Newsflash: CCP doesn't give a **** that War Decs are broken.
Leave your corp until they cancel it or CCP starts giving a ****.
Hint: CCP will never give a ****.
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Smabs
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Posted - 2010.08.09 06:46:00 -
[25]
Just make some insta undocks, get some faster ships and don't fight them on the station. If they really want a fight they'll go after you.
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2010.08.09 08:47:00 -
[26]
Originally by: raidnkill
They're unbeatable!!
dammit
its the backside of the high sec. Leave to low or 0.0 where you can engage everyone whos hostile. High sec rules forbid that.
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Sombike
Caldari
Enterprise Estonia
Session Changes
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Posted - 2010.08.09 10:19:00 -
[27]
Seems to me you guys got outsmarted. A key to each victory is having enough intel about the other side. Though i miss the good old days when people didn't know/use rr as much as now.
Back then it was easy, add the war targets into your book, run a locate on each one of them when he comes online/look up his standings with agents, battle clinic records, go send in your own neutral alt who can scan them and probe them down in a mission. After that is was easy, hop in the achura pwnmobile aka raven and kill them 
I have never had a signature before, is it any good? |
Flashh Gorden
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2010.08.09 15:43:00 -
[28]
If one of your BS pilots was in a logistics ship you would not of lost any ships.
People who play station games do not like moving out of dock range. You can warp in a logistic ship at range and rep away.
The station huggers will be short range set up and will not leave docking range to counter your logi ship.
They will of course stop shooting and wait for the dock timer as soon as they see they cant win but then thats what happens when you fight at stations.
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Fatty McChubchub
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Posted - 2010.08.09 23:55:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Robert Caldera
Originally by: raidnkill
They're unbeatable!!
dammit
its the backside of the high sec. Leave to low or 0.0 where you can engage everyone whos hostile. High sec rules forbid that.
Pro tip. Neutral reppers go flashy when they rep someone you have aggro to in hi sec and can be shot. Stay in 0.0/low sec please. You stink up the game.
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Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
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Posted - 2010.08.10 02:24:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Fatty McChubchub
Originally by: Robert Caldera
Originally by: raidnkill
They're unbeatable!!
dammit
its the backside of the high sec. Leave to low or 0.0 where you can engage everyone whos hostile. High sec rules forbid that.
Pro tip. Neutral reppers go flashy when they rep someone you have aggro to in hi sec and can be shot. Stay in 0.0/low sec please. You stink up the game.
Have you ever been in a in game fight? Ever?
You are in highsec. You have a war target. He is surrounded by 3 neutral domi's. He can choose when to bring those domis into the fight via RR as he needs. In lowsec or nullsec, I can also choose when to bring those domis into the fight.
There is a reason highsec pvp'ers tend to use neutral RR. It's not just some big coincidence, it actually does confer an advantage.
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