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Sjugar
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Posted - 2010.08.06 13:27:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Sjugar on 06/08/2010 13:29:32 I was wondering what level V skills people would not get and why.
I'll kick off with a few: Tactical Shield Manipulation V. I would never get this skill because the benefit is still under discussion and if there is a benefit it's so tiny that it doesn't warrant the training time.
The Ore specialization skills. With lvl IV you can use all the T2 mining crystals and there are other ways to reach perfect refines.
Electronic Warfare Drone Interfacing V. I wouldn't get this because the bonus of an extra 3k range on top of and already 57 km isn't worth the time imo.
So, What skill do you avoid training to V?
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Reldor Silverheart
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.08.06 13:55:00 -
[2]
Hmm i disagree on the EW drone interfacing to 5 skills, 3k can sometimes make or break if your drone can reach a target or not. 60km drone range isn't a bad thing truth to be told.
But, if you don't play heavy droneboats or rely alot on drones 4 should be enough.
I'd say avoid cloaking 5 tho, since you only need level 4 for the cov ops cloaks.
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Ringo Jeicha
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2010.08.06 13:58:00 -
[3]
I disagree on the the cloaking V, it's needed on some boats with very tight fits where even 1 cpu can make or break it. --- Braaaiiinnnsssssssssss |
Maudad
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Posted - 2010.08.06 14:17:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Ringo Jeicha I disagree on the the cloaking V, it's needed on some boats with very tight fits where even 1 cpu can make or break it.
I was not aware that the Cloaking skill gave any bonuses to fitting, just to targetting delay. Cloak fitting issues are resolved by ship bonuses dependant on ship skills, Recon Ships, Covert Ops and Transport Ships spring to mind.
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Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
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Posted - 2010.08.06 14:48:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Ringo Jeicha I disagree on the the cloaking V, it's needed on some boats with very tight fits where even 1 cpu can make or break it.
Which fits actually get CPU from cloaking 5?
Pretty sure you're thinking of Recon 5 as the mandatory one and CovOps 5 as nice to have, no?
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DeftCrow Redriver
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Posted - 2010.08.06 14:59:00 -
[6]
Edited by: DeftCrow Redriver on 06/08/2010 14:59:54 Didnt' see the examples
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True Sight
THORN Syndicate Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2010.08.06 15:13:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Sjugar Tactical Shield Manipulation V. I would never get this skill because the benefit is still under discussion and if there is a benefit it's so tiny that it doesn't warrant the training time.
I searched and couldn't find the post, but its been proven that the benefits of this skill are positive ones, basically, at the point in which damage begins to bleed through your shield, you effectively take twice as much damage, that is (assuming no resists, recharge or anything just to keep it simple)
With Tactical Shield Manipulation at 0, your shields at 5%, you are hit for 100 damage. Your shields will go down by 100 and your armor will drop by 100 as well, the damage effectively hits both.
Originally by: Sjugar The Ore specialization skills. With lvl IV you can use all the T2 mining crystals and there are other ways to reach perfect refines.
in 99.9% of scenarios, yes, its pretty pointless to ever work these to 5 in almost every scenario.
Originally by: Sjugar Electronic Warfare Drone Interfacing V. I wouldn't get this because the bonus of an extra 3k range on top of and already 57 km isn't worth the time imo.
Ultra-worthwhile for every serious drone ues, the extra 3km allows you to use very nice tactics with sentry drones, as they can, when properly skilled still do effective damage outside of 57km.
Cloaking Not worth it, all the cloak-specialist ships have a 0 delay after uncloaking, very few scenarios where a pilot would use a cloaked non-bonused ship in combat situations
Jury Rigging You need lvl4 for all Tech 2 rigs, it gives no actual bonuses to rigs and is not required for anything.
Starbase Defence Management All serious pilots would rather have characters on two accounts that can man 4 guns each, than a single character that can use 5, I don't know anyone thats ever finished training that skill to max, especially as it s Rank 7 and situational.
Multitasking Level 5 of which is so worthless, its not even needed for the elite targetting certificate, getting it to 5 would allow for a total of 12 targets, I'm not aware of any ships that can target that many.
Industrial Reconfiguration reduces Heavy Water usage by 50 units, Heavy water is very cheap, level 4 plus other skills makes it cheap enough to perma-run industrial reconfig mode
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True Sight President Foiritan Emissary --<<!SUPPORT DRONES!>>--
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Kaldor Mintat
Nomads Of Eve Purpose Built
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Posted - 2010.08.06 15:39:00 -
[8]
Survey 5......that frigging survey 5....if i had just held of training that for a month....."rages"
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2010.08.06 16:36:00 -
[9]
Originally by: True Sight
Originally by: Sjugar Tactical Shield Manipulation V. I would never get this skill because the benefit is still under discussion and if there is a benefit it's so tiny that it doesn't warrant the training time.
I searched and couldn't find the post, but its been proven that the benefits of this skill are positive ones, basically, at the point in which damage begins to bleed through your shield, you effectively take twice as much damage, that is (assuming no resists, recharge or anything just to keep it simple)
With Tactical Shield Manipulation at 0, your shields at 5%, you are hit for 100 damage. Your shields will go down by 100 and your armor will drop by 100 as well, the damage effectively hits both.
You've opened a whole can of worms with that claim. Personally I don't believe it.
Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.
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Estel Arador
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Posted - 2010.08.06 16:55:00 -
[10]
Originally by: True Sight I searched and couldn't find the post, but its been proven that the benefits of this skill are positive ones, basically, at the point in which damage begins to bleed through your shield, you effectively take twice as much damage, that is (assuming no resists, recharge or anything just to keep it simple)
With Tactical Shield Manipulation at 0, your shields at 5%, you are hit for 100 damage. Your shields will go down by 100 and your armor will drop by 100 as well, the damage effectively hits both.
That's bullocks, from the "it's been proven" part right up to the "damage effectively hits both" part. Exactly the opposite has been proven, and I do have a link.
As far as the topic of this thread is concerned, Trade V is pretty useless (it gives 2 extra orders, but is not a prerequisite for anything).
Free jumpclone service|1092 stations! |
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Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
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Posted - 2010.08.06 17:06:00 -
[11]
Originally by: True Sight Jury Rigging You need lvl4 for all Tech 2 rigs, it gives no actual bonuses to rigs and is not required for anything.
Not quite. Try T3 production without that and see what happens....
But yeah, Cloaking 5 is useless unless you really, really want to reduce recalibration time on an unbonused ship for some random reason.
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Arous Drephius
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Posted - 2010.08.06 17:48:00 -
[12]
Originally by: True Sight
Cloaking Not worth it, all the cloak-specialist ships have a 0 delay after uncloaking, very few scenarios where a pilot would use a cloaked non-bonused ship in combat situations
Multitasking Level 5 of which is so worthless, its not even needed for the elite targetting certificate, getting it to 5 would allow for a total of 12 targets, I'm not aware of any ships that can target that many.
Force recons still have the targeting delay, and you can lock 12 targets if you fit the mods that increase the max locked targets of your ship (Auto Targeters I think), although I agree that it's pretty pointless.
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Tau Cabalander
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.08.06 18:16:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 06/08/2010 18:18:50
Presence 5 - probably takes longer to train than it can ever save Astrometric Acquisition 5 - woot! 1 second faster scan than level 4 Deep Core Mining 5 - why are you mining so dang close! Sleeper Technology 5 - manufacturing them is pointless Takmahl Technology 5 - manufacturing them is pointless Talocan Technology 5 - manufacturing them is pointless Yan Jung Technology 5 - manufacturing them is pointless
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Abdiel Kavash
Caldari Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
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Posted - 2010.08.06 18:18:00 -
[14]
The rank 3 learning skills, unless you plan to stick around for a very long while. Also, the need for some high rank corporation management skills is questionable. Especially as you can always hire someone to update your corp with their skills. ___________ EVE is dying! Now for real! |
splendidzje
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Posted - 2010.08.06 22:47:00 -
[15]
controlled bursts V
ships i fly: rarely vindicator, except that im fully minmatar.
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Jaabaa
Minmatar Dental Drilling Corporation
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Posted - 2010.08.06 23:28:00 -
[16]
Mining V
-- EVE Mobile Skill Planner V3 !! http://evemsp.sourceforge.net/ |
Breaker77
Gallente Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2010.08.07 02:01:00 -
[17]
Outpost construction 2-5 - Doesn't do anything
Supply chain management and scientific networking - Seriously, isn't 20 jumps enough?
Capital Ship Construction 5 - Unless you are in an alliance in 0.0 space with sov and building Titans, it's useless.
Industrial Construction 5 - Doesn't do anything
Drone Durability 5 - 5% more hitpoints for 20+ days of training? Drones are not that expensive to replace.
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trader00
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Posted - 2010.08.07 02:21:00 -
[18]
I <3 lvl V
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Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
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Posted - 2010.08.07 04:46:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Breaker77 Outpost construction 2-5 - Doesn't do anything
Supply chain management and scientific networking - Seriously, isn't 20 jumps enough?
Capital Ship Construction 5 - Unless you are in an alliance in 0.0 space with sov and building Titans, it's useless.
Industrial Construction 5 - Doesn't do anything
Drone Durability 5 - 5% more hitpoints for 20+ days of training? Drones are not that expensive to replace.
You can't replace loved ones!
Originally by: Dr Reinhold Eve is the endgame. Every other game you have played has just been preparation for this.
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Baneken
Gallente School of the Unseen
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Posted - 2010.08.07 05:28:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Breaker77 Outpost construction 2-5 - Doesn't do anything
Supply chain management and scientific networking - Seriously, isn't 20 jumps enough?
Capital Ship Construction 5 - Unless you are in an alliance in 0.0 space with sov and building Titans, it's useless.
Industrial Construction 5 - Doesn't do anything
Drone Durability 5 - 5% more hitpoints for 20+ days of training? Drones are not that expensive to replace.
I'm quite confident your miners will appreciate having 30% base yield instead of 10%, same goes for other advanced platforms. And drone durability V is definitely something that everyone should have if they do any sort of PvE with drones.
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
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Captain Tavius
Picon Fleet New Eden Research.
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Posted - 2010.08.07 06:21:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Abdiel Kavash The rank 3 learning skills, unless you plan to stick around for a very long while. Also, the need for some high rank corporation management skills is questionable. Especially as you can always hire someone to update your corp with their skills.
Someone would have had to had those skills to be hired by people though, wouldn't they? And you'd want to train them if you're planning on offering that service.
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2010.08.07 09:06:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Pottsey on 07/08/2010 09:14:15 True Sight said " Multitasking Level 5 of which is so worthless, its not even needed for the elite targetting certificate, getting it to 5 would allow for a total of 12 targets, I'm not aware of any ships that can target that many." Every time this thread come up someone says that. Almost any ship can have 12 targets with modules fitted. There are limited times but there are times when 12 targets are very useful. When I lived in a certan Cosmos site I needed 12 targets and would have trained advanced Multitasking for more if there was such a skill. When flying in a logistical role and/or hacking along site doing a logistical job you often need 12 more more targets.
Tau Cabalander said " Presence 5 - probably takes longer to train than it can ever save" Not everyone should avoid it. I saved a lot of time due to Presence 5. In short I got Presence 5 then the Leadership, gang assist and Orca came out so I trained a lot of charisma skills. If I didn't have Presence 5 my training skill plan would have taken much longer. I think I once worked it out as 14 or 17days longer, but not sure without checking the math. Anyway a skill that can saves days or weeks of time is not useless. Ending a new skill plan days faster is not useless.
It should save even more time if you train it now and plan to get all the charisma skills for all the new stuff like cloths and bars in Incarna. Might be a bit of a gamble.
EDIT: EDIT: " Sleeper Technology 5 - manufacturing them is pointless Takmahl Technology 5 - manufacturing them is pointless Talocan Technology 5 - manufacturing them is pointless Yan Jung Technology 5 - manufacturing them is pointless"
Some of those modules have real nice fittings. If fitting is tight those modules are great. Almost T2 power but less CPU and powergrid. Well depending on module. Not sure if its still the case but at one time the only way to get certain modules like remote hull repairers to use on drones or whatever was via those skills.
______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
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Neliel Soifon
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Posted - 2010.08.07 12:06:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Tau Cabalander Deep Core Mining 5 - why are you mining so dang close!
<< the ship which was mining the Mercoxit will always fall within the range of the cloud >>
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Deep_Core_Mining
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Breaker77
Gallente Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2010.08.07 13:42:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Breaker77 on 07/08/2010 13:44:01
Originally by: Neliel Soifon
Originally by: Tau Cabalander Deep Core Mining 5 - why are you mining so dang close!
<< the ship which was mining the Mercoxit will always fall within the range of the cloud >>
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Deep_Core_Mining
Skiff bonus
Quote: Exhumers Skill Bonus: 60% bonus to Mercoxit Mining Crystal yield multiplier per level 20% reduced chance of Mercoxit gas cloud forming per level
Exhumers 4 is quick and easy to train for so thats 80% reduced chance of gas cloud forming.
Deep core mining
Quote: Skill at operating mining lasers requiring Deep Core Mining. 20% reduction per skill level in the chance of a damage cloud forming while mining Mercoxit.
Since you have to have exhumer 1 to fly a skiff, you would never need deep core mining 5. DCM 4 plus exhumer 1 would be a 100% reduced chance of a gas cloud forming.
I suppose if you are going to mine in another ship it would come in handy, but skiffs are cheap.
Originally by: Baneken
I'm quite confident your miners will appreciate having 30% base yield instead of 10%, same goes for other advanced platforms.
opps I knew I forgot to check something.
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Eve Antonovich
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Posted - 2010.08.07 18:48:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Breaker77 Edited by: Breaker77 on 07/08/2010 13:44:01
Originally by: Neliel Soifon
Originally by: Tau Cabalander Deep Core Mining 5 - why are you mining so dang close!
<< the ship which was mining the Mercoxit will always fall within the range of the cloud >>
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Deep_Core_Mining
Skiff bonus
Quote: Exhumers Skill Bonus: 60% bonus to Mercoxit Mining Crystal yield multiplier per level 20% reduced chance of Mercoxit gas cloud forming per level
Exhumers 4 is quick and easy to train for so thats 80% reduced chance of gas cloud forming.
Deep core mining
Quote: Skill at operating mining lasers requiring Deep Core Mining. 20% reduction per skill level in the chance of a damage cloud forming while mining Mercoxit.
Since you have to have exhumer 1 to fly a skiff, you would never need deep core mining 5. DCM 4 plus exhumer 1 would be a 100% reduced chance of a gas cloud forming.
I suppose if you are going to mine in another ship it would come in handy, but skiffs are cheap.
Actually, I queried this with CCP. Each bonus is additive within it's self, so DCM 2 = 40% reduction and Exhumbers 3 = 60% reduction. The 2 skills in combination are multiplicative, thus DCM2 + E3 =
100% * 60% (DCM2 residue) * 40% (E3 residue) = 24%
You need either DCM5 or Exhumers5 for a 0% chance, even both skills on 4 yields a 4% chance of a cloud
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2010.08.07 19:42:00 -
[26]
Afterburner.
Secure 3rd party service | my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar' |
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Moist Onions
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.08.08 06:40:00 -
[27]
Cloaking V
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Shiho Weitong
Caldari Legion of Punken Dredators
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Posted - 2010.08.08 16:15:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Shiho Weitong on 08/08/2010 16:16:12 Completely shocked no one brought this one up.
Hybrids, any.
----------- Why is it called common sense, when it's clearly very rare.
I had a mind once, but alas, I seem to have forgotten where I left it.
Originally by: Tchell Dahhn You win, and thank you. |
Halborn
Celtic Technologies Inc.
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Posted - 2010.08.09 00:22:00 -
[29]
I'll add my few:
Procurement/Daytrading/Marketing: As stated above with Scientific Networking 20 jumps is more than enough Advanced Planetology: Seriously?! Is anyone addicted to clicking their mouse enough to waste time on this oh so small improvement! Biology: I'm not even sure this is worth training I cant remember it uses (open to enlightenment :) Tycoon: Okay, If you ONLY trade then maybe but I highly doubt someone would actually need all those slots....then again i've been wrong in the past ------------------------------
CEO Celtic Technologies Inc. |
Baneken
Gallente School of the Unseen
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Posted - 2010.08.09 10:36:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Halborn I'll add my few: Biology: I'm not even sure this is worth training I cant remember it uses (open to enlightenment :)
The science of life and of living organisms, and how chemicals affect them. 20% Bonus to attribute booster duration per skill level.
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
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