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Xuixien Rifterlings Ushra'Khan 73	Posted - 2012.07.30 05:32:00 - [91] - Quote Pinky Feldman wrote: You just argued that amount of people that are winning or losing to ASB setups isn't a valid arguement if its OP or not. Actually, I never said that. Learn to read, and then go on back and work through my post again. Rabble Rabble!!
Hrett Justified Chaos 123	Posted - 2012.07.30 05:41:00 - [92] - Quote Sheynan wrote: I really think X-ASBs should stay as they are. Just because there is no x-large shield extender. And with these ASBs we have the ability to mirror one which is awesome. P.S: And still: perma-tanking shouldn't happen with ASBs because that is where they really invalidate traditional shield boosters EDIT: I'd love to see x-asbs as active tanks in mid to large size fleet fights Watch the alliance tournament videos on YouTube and you can see a single Sleipnier tank the DPS from an entire teams Damage boats. It's pretty amazing. They need a nerfin. ;)
Xuixien Rifterlings Ushra'Khan 73	Posted - 2012.07.30 05:51:00 - [93] - Quote Hrett wrote: Sheynan wrote: I really think X-ASBs should stay as they are. Just because there is no x-large shield extender. And with these ASBs we have the ability to mirror one which is awesome. P.S: And still: perma-tanking shouldn't happen with ASBs because that is where they really invalidate traditional shield boosters EDIT: I'd love to see x-asbs as active tanks in mid to large size fleet fights Watch the alliance tournament videos on YouTube and you can see a single Sleipnier tank the DPS from an entire teams Damage boats. It's pretty amazing. They need a nerfin. ;) No no, ASB's are fine as long as they beat him eventually. Just as Pinky Feldman. Rabble Rabble!!
Zarnak Wulf Imperial Outlaws 455	Posted - 2012.07.30 05:55:00 - [94] - Quote ASB give an impressive burst tank for a very short period of time. The only limit that should be considered is a one per ship limit. That would silence most of the OMG crowd. The really sick tanks rely on 2-3 billion in implants as well as 1 billion isk off-grid alt. Also - since the devs are considering making boosting an on grid activity- tanky Sleipners aren't a bad thing.
Pinky Feldman Gank Bangers Moar Tears 249	Posted - 2012.07.30 08:31:00 - [95] - Quote Xuixien wrote: Pinky Feldman wrote: How is arguing that something is beatable makes it not OP an invalid arguement? If people are beating ASB setups, then its clearly not OP. Because "overpowered" and "unbeatable" are two different things? Because being "beatable" is not the only qualifier for balance? Are you really that stupid? Really? Pinky Feldman wrote: You just argued that amount of people that are winning or losing to ASB setups isn't a valid arguement if its OP or not. Actually, I never said that. Learn to read, and then go on back and work through my post again. Cool story bro, the fact that you've been reduced to arguing semantics and STILL haven't made a solid or unique point just shows how little you know what you're talking about. So please, keep posting "umad" responses because all you're doing is making yourself look bad. In fact I just looked up your killboard and after seeing that less than 200 kills with a 2:1 kd ratio its no wonder you are so clueless about PVP in EVE. ASB is great because its a huge boon to the solo PVPer and ships that previously either required super expensive fits to use or were just plain useless now are viable for PVP. For some reason you seem offended that CCP introduced a new module that breaks the status quo and opens up new PVP possibilities and setups by actually being useful. Though the fact that you're in Ushra'Khan means you're probably just trolling to which I say 10/10. Anyways, I'm done replying here since after 4 pages you still have yet to bring up a compelling arguement. The moar you cry the less you pee
Xuixien Rifterlings Ushra'Khan 73	Posted - 2012.07.30 15:24:00 - [96] - Quote Pinky Feldman wrote: Glosses over any points made and instead loses temper and resorts to insults. Doesn't understand why sloppy and improper usage of language may lead to semantic issues. Concedes the argument while trying to save face with a posturing parting shot. You just come on back when you actually have an argument, y'hear? Rabble Rabble!!
Fager Xel'Naga Corp 1	Posted - 2012.07.30 15:35:00 - [97] - Quote Hrett wrote: Sheynan wrote: I really think X-ASBs should stay as they are. Just because there is no x-large shield extender. And with these ASBs we have the ability to mirror one which is awesome. P.S: And still: perma-tanking shouldn't happen with ASBs because that is where they really invalidate traditional shield boosters EDIT: I'd love to see x-asbs as active tanks in mid to large size fleet fights Watch the alliance tournament videos on YouTube and you can see a single Sleipnier tank the DPS from an entire teams Damage boats. It's pretty amazing. They need a nerfin. ;) For how long did he tank that DPS once it started on him? How long would it have taken to die with a XL Extended/Plated setup? I know its hard to imagine a sleipnir in armor plated and there is no XL extenders... but i bet you if it was a armor plated ship surviving as long as that sleipnir none would have raised an eyebrow, since at no point did the armor "go up" hence its fine? right?
M1k3y Koontz Blackened Skies The Unthinkables 36	Posted - 2012.07.31 14:14:00 - [98] - Quote chatgris wrote: M1k3y Koontz wrote: The ASB can be overheated which gives a 10% bonus to boost amount, so on a 1 ASB fit that is one bonus. The other is a blue pill will add another 20% if that is being used. Overload duration bonus: -15% I don't see any amount listed. ANd faster duration is more tank, but you have to reload sooner. Overload Shield Boost Bonus: 10% Might only be on X-Ls though. How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Lone Crow Exanimo Inc Anger Management. 0	Posted - 2012.08.02 19:36:00 - [99] - Quote All I know is that I have lost two Cyclones with ASB equipped. In both cases my ship popped before I ran out of charges. Turns out 7 ThoraxGÇÖs > 1 Large ASB. Maybe I need to equip an XL ASB, or maybe get one of those Paladins from WOW to bubble my ship.
Timural Enslave. Persona Non Gratis 24	Posted - 2012.08.03 17:19:00 - [100] - Quote With my recent experience solo pvping I've come across many ASB fit frigates. Yes I can't break them while they have charges but after they run out its over. I love the asb even though i haven't actually used it on one of my fits. As someone said before an ASB lets you punch above your weight for a limited amount of time which is crucial when solo pvp is often 1v2-3. I have a feeling most people who are against asb's haven't used them yet. The 60 seconds it takes to reload them is extremely long and it is unlikely you will get to use the same ASB module again before you die. As for the cyclone/ferox/slephnir X-large fits. Well they are generally gimped in some way and still I think its cool these ships are capable of tanking so much for a brief time. I have come across a cool dual MASB Merlin fit. It was gimped in so many ways but that thing tanked for a very long time, allowing a frigate to perform as a strong bait.
Aloysius X Pendergast Aliastra Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2012.08.04 16:26:00 - [101] - Quote Lone Crow wrote: All I know is that I have lost two Cyclones with ASB equipped. In both cases my ship popped before I ran out of charges. Turns out 7 ThoraxGÇÖs > 1 Large ASB. Maybe I need to equip an XL ASB, or maybe get one of those Paladins from WOW to bubble my ship. Edit: Which is to say, they donGÇÖt make you invaluable. You can chew through an ASB even before it runs out of charges, just as you can chew through 1600 plate quickly if you have enough DPS. And if you donGÇÖt have enough DPS, then you just need more time, just like chewing through a 1600 plate buffer tank. You can't compare an ASB to a 1600mm plate. The plate has HUGE drawbacks (2.75m kg mass added) when compared to an ASB. ASB just eats cargo, but can pack in a hell of a lot more charges into it than should be allowed. You can also plop 2 ASB and stagger charges to have an almost perma tank pending charges, and dps being applied.
Solstice Project I'm So Meta Even This Acronym 1662	Posted - 2012.08.04 18:26:00 - [102] - Quote OMG PEOPLE HAVE TO USE THEIR BRAINS TO KILL SOMEBODY, OMG PEOPLE HAVE TO STOP USING GENERIC FITTINGS, OMG OMG THE WORLD WILL END SOON !!!!! Seriously, how damn ***** stupid are you ? Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire**
Kn1v3s 999 Insurgent New Eden Tribe RAZOR Alliance 27	Posted - 2012.08.04 21:35:00 - [103] - Quote i'm back after 2 months out of eve, so now, even for solo active shield tank > active armor tank ? I have seen a couple of new videos and even Myrms are equipped with dual ASB, i do t know if that s only for a change or if even for one of the best armor tanking ships it s better the shield solution.
Hurtado Soneka Serenity Prime Kraken. 78	Posted - 2012.08.04 22:00:00 - [104] - Quote people crying about asb should just quit, people only see something to ***** about instead of seeing the boost that shield tankers have been asking for the past 7 years
Cpt Branko Zawa's Fan Club 46	Posted - 2012.08.04 22:08:00 - [105] - Quote Hurtado Soneka wrote: people crying about asb should just quit, people only see something to ***** about instead of seeing the boost that shield tankers have been asking for the past 7 years 90% of EVE flies shieldtanks of some sort in PVP and have done so for years now and active shield tank was actually viable on bonused ships ever since the nano-nerf and the introduction of the MWD-stopping scrambler. Under what rock have you been? Shield tankers have been crying for boosts. I assume next Minmatar will complain falloff is too short and DPS is too low.
Hurtado Soneka Serenity Prime Kraken. 78	Posted - 2012.08.04 22:32:00 - [106] - Quote Cpt Branko wrote: active shield tank was actually viable on bonused ships It wasnt really, and shield boosters on any other ship were just pointless unless you were doing pve, now a variety of ships can fit an active shield tank and everyone is bitching, please
Gibbo3771 AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse 183	Posted - 2012.08.05 09:58:00 - [107] - Quote Hurtado Soneka wrote: Cpt Branko wrote: active shield tank was actually viable on bonused ships It wasnt really, and shield boosters on any other ship were just pointless unless you were doing pve, now a variety of ships can fit an active shield tank and everyone is bitching, please The problem the OP has is the fact that currently it is "OK". Only the few that are smart, ambitious and solo are flying ASB fits so they are reeking in all the benefits of minimum micro management, capless boosting equal to a X type booster, with x2 ASB's there is only an 8 second window where you cant boost due to reload but who cares, bleed some armor and hull. The problem begins when everyone starts using them which WILL kill solo pvp, there is not a lot of ships out there below BS class that has the tank/dps to down an xl booster sliepner before it kills it, a duel asb cyclone can tank any bc just fine, any hac, most t3's. Perfect example is the brutix and myrmidon, there is only 1 reason to fit MARS on them and that is so you can tank for longer but with ASB fits you can fit max dmg, a brutix can have 35k ehp, 950dps with a 700dps burst tank. Has a web and scram. Myrmidon can fit duel ASB's, fit max dmg and tank more than a tri rep fit even with only 1 booster running. You know how bad it is when traditional armor tanked ships are actually better with an ASB in a situation where you can tank the incoming dps. The booster, no matter what anyone says is becoming OP the more people use it. Hell I use it, there is very little reason to fit a booster + cap booster if you can easily fit duel ASB's, no cap problems, better tank. I would be happy to see an XLASB reduced to boost less than a XL T2 so you either pick between consistent tank vulnerable to neuts or less tank that only runs for 52 seconds but is capless. You can see how much effect it had on ATX, if they never introduced it maybe we wouldnt have seen a minmatar rush team every 2nd match. Everytime you dont like my comments/posts the terrorists win and your a disgrace to your country.
Hurtado Soneka Serenity Prime Kraken. 80	Posted - 2012.08.05 12:34:00 - [108] - Quote I agree with your points, and definately when typicaly armour repping bs are going for shields then that may indicate something is wrong, but the whole point of the fitting screen is to choose how you fight and what you fit to gain better results. The inverse of this for example would be the plated raven or scorp, to allow the pilot to better use his midslots. If armoured based ships are using ASB then he is freeing up his lows for either DPS or nano, and even then he is going to sacrifice a lot on gun size if hes running dual ASB. Now, just because the ASBs are potent, you need to remember the counter to them is time, once those cap charges are gone a ASB will destroy your cap, a dual ASB obviously more so, now pilots need to test the waters with their fights instead of charging in balls to the wall, and it frightens them. Am definately in favour of keeping EvE more tactical and less stupid, instead of crying over a frankly needed module, perhaps they could put their time into developing strategies to counter. And yes, the likely inevitable counter would be to also fit ASB, and thats fine, we were all forced to fly armour bs and rifters and other FOTM crap for years, at least now pilots have a choice how to deal with it.
Cpt Branko Zawa's Fan Club 47	Posted - 2012.08.05 13:43:00 - [109] - Quote Hurtado Soneka wrote: Now, just because the ASBs are potent, you need to remember the counter to them is time Time is a luxury you often don't have. Saying something like this belies the fact you're an EFT PVPer. Hurtado Soneka wrote: Am definately in favour of keeping EvE more tactical ... developing strategies to counter. Yes, because it takes brains to devise two counters: (a) blob more (b) fly nanoed stuff which can run away (c) use an ASB ship and pray you don't get blobbed to hell in the four minutes or so it takes for a ship to run out of boosters. So instead of a number of viable things and fits to fly, let's chop off all the buffer shortrange fits, render the ships which can't fit ASB and aren't nanoships useless outside of blob. That'll do wonders for balance and variety.
Hurtado Soneka Serenity Prime Kraken. 81	Posted - 2012.08.05 14:34:00 - [110] - Quote Cpt Branko wrote: Time is a luxury you often don't have. Saying something like this belies the fact you're an EFT PVPer. I believe your the one that was dropping actual DPS and Rep figures? Also since youve got the time to check out the killboards, go and find me the last ASB fit I used, so stop being stupid and trying to troll please. Infact Ill save you time, Ive used ASB once on a hawk experiment and it didnt fare to well, I use shield buffer actually. I dont even use ASB but am willing to defend the module because its an option and I like having them, their is nothing wrong with it apart from the fact it takes a bit more brain power than your typicaly get to optical and F1 if you want to win it seems. Anyway your points are mute.
Haxen66 Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 1	Posted - 2012.08.05 15:07:00 - [111] - Quote Hurtado Soneka wrote: with x2 ASB's there is only an 8 second window where you cant boost due to reload but who cares, bleed some armor and hull. how are you working this out? 2 x anc's each having a 60 second reload times, takes 30 secs to burn through the clip?
Dread Pirate Pete Tribal Core Defiant Legacy 22	Posted - 2012.08.05 21:20:00 - [112] - Quote Hurtado Soneka wrote: you need to remember the counter to them is time. Problem is that it takes a long damn time to run out of charges, time your enemy will generally have spent shooting back at you. And unless you have a capless super rep you then tend to be at something of an disadvantage. I hope CCP threw the module out as a beta for the concept, and as they roll out metas we will probably see some rebalancing. Requiring navy boosters, fiddling with number of charges held/rep amount/cycle time/reload time/fitting reqs, etc. The current iteration will presumably end up being the T2/faction level of the module.
Ravan Hekki Blue-Fire 29	Posted - 2012.08.05 21:22:00 - [113] - Quote CCP have ruined your game agai...here i have something that will help you. http://imageshack.us/f/254/bitchinaboutccpagain.png/ enjoy
Angsty Teenager 61	Posted - 2012.08.06 04:40:00 - [114] - Quote I think the whole discussion about this module is hilarious because it's very easy to see that the modules clearly infringe on previous roles that other tanking styles have. I've talked in more detail in another thread a couple weeks ago or something about how you can achieve more buffer using an ASB setup than a typical buffer setup--and I think some people have done the same in this thread. This, in addition to the fact that the ASB module is good on LITERALLY EVERY SHIP IN THE GAME, including ships that have armor resist/armor rep bonuses (Brutix, Myrm, Hyperion) suggests to me, (and really should suggest to anybody who has any sort of insight) that the ASB modules are too powerful. I think that the module itself, and the idea behind it is very good, sound and an asset to the game because it allows for people to micro manage the ASB and set up a situation where you fight for ~40 seconds, and then pull away and reload while you take less damage. But the way it stands right now, particularly with dual ASB (and even some single ASB fits), the module has single-handedly made typical cap booster + active shield tanking, buffer shield tanking, and active armor tanking obselete--they simply can't achieve the same amount of instant-tank and long term buffer. Imo, the solution is not to limit the amount of ASB's that can be fit on a ship, but instead to increase the CPU and Powergrid on the modules (significantly) so that it almost becomes unfeasible to fit two of them on a ship without severely gimping the rest of the fit (more so than happens right now). Another option is to decrease the reload time, but also significantly decrease the boost amount.
Moonlit Raid State War Academy Caldari State 29	Posted - 2012.08.06 18:10:00 - [115] - Quote My solution: allow multiple reactive armour hardeners.
Angsty Teenager 62	Posted - 2012.08.06 18:21:00 - [116] - Quote Moonlit Raid wrote: My solution: allow multiple reactive armour hardeners. I too like spending huge amounts of cap on a module that isn't useful outside on anything but a supercap.
Cpt Greywolf Mining and Industrial Services The Irukandji 3	Posted - 2012.08.06 18:52:00 - [117] - Quote I am a big fan of small gang and solo PvP and actually I think the ASB's have revolutionised the way we can fight. In my experience my enemy almost always has backup and this module can provide enough tank to either disengage or win a very one sided fight, it also means I can take on juicier targets that I couldn't before previous to the module. For example I am playing with an ASB fit Hurricane which can hold 13 cap boosters in the shield booster and pull 810 dps with ECM drones. I was able to kill a Diemos that wanted a piece of me. And you may want to look closer at the module those 13 must be used carefully or you'll be roflstomped while your on the one minute recharge.
Terminator56 The 8th Tribe Seraphim Dragoons. 4	Posted - 2012.08.07 18:05:00 - [118] - Quote ASBs are the best thing that has happend to shield tanking in a long time; they actually made shield tanking relevant and widely used. Stop bitching because you are so terribad at PVP and can't learn to kite/counter. Neuts may not stop an ASB, but they will stop their active hardeners which will drastically reduce their tank.
Takeshi Yamato Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 280	Posted - 2012.08.07 21:03:00 - [119] - Quote Cpt Greywolf wrote: I am a big fan of small gang and solo PvP and actually I think the ASB's have revolutionised the way we can fight. In my experience my enemy almost always has backup and this module can provide enough tank to either disengage or win a very one sided fight, it also means I can take on juicier targets that I couldn't before previous to the module. ...until your targets learn to fit ASBs themselves. Then your targets will die a LOT slower, giving the blob more time to arrive... and suddenly active armor tanking is useless in comparison. An analysis: fixing active tanking in a logical manner: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1693846
Lili Lu 334	Posted - 2012.08.08 04:49:00 - [120] - Quote Terminator56 wrote: ASBs are the best thing that has happend to shield tanking in a long time; they actually made shield tanking relevant and widely used. Stop bitching because you are so terribad at PVP and can't learn to kite/counter. Neuts may not stop an ASB, but they will stop their active hardeners which will drastically reduce their tank. Sorry, I haven't read the OP, so don't know what the thread was originally about. Started reading from the end of the thread here. But your post made me immediately think of some questions. Before the ASB, shield tanking wasn't already in favor? Have you been looking at the eve-kill top 20? Mostly been shield tanking ships there for a while. This month is even more exagerated http://eve-kill.net/?a=top20 Maybe some of the Oracles and Scorpions had plates. But probably half were shield fit. Last regular armor tanker on the list was the Abbadon. Yet even they appear to be falling out of favor. CCP did not have a shield tanking problem. They had an active tanking problem. But really what's wrong with that. It's absurd to think any one ship should be active tanking a bunch of enemy ships. Poeple should be fleeted and using remote repping anyway as team play. And of the two active tanking modes, active shield tanking was already more viable. So it is a laugh that they felt the need to introduce ASBs. Meanwhile armor got a worthless adaptive hardener. This game will continue to be shield exclusive if they don't make some adjustments.

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