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Self destructing providing no killmail/loot

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AfroHorse AQUILA INC	Posted - 2010.08.22 18:38:00 - [1] Just wondering what people's opinions on self destructing in pvp is. Basically we have had 2 carriers so far self destructing before we were able to kill them so was just wondering if anyone else felt this should change?
Aerilis Gallente Percussive Diplomacy	Posted - 2010.08.22 18:46:00 - [2] It's ****ed. Self-destructing should generate a killmail that puts yourself on it with the weapon "self-destruct" so the world can see what a giant *** you are. Loot I don't really care about.
Robert Caldera	Posted - 2010.08.22 19:14:00 - [3] I think its ok mechanic, if you are unable to kill faster, the other just selfdestruct. Legitime tactic IMO, you have to claim to other peoples KMs/loot.
AfroHorse AQUILA INC	Posted - 2010.08.22 19:20:00 - [4] Has never been a problem apart from 2 carrier pilots that have done massively stupid things e.g. thinking they can fend off their c2 wormhole with it so we can't bring in our dread to take it out quickly so we just dumped curses/t3s on it which although possessing ok dps still can't punch through 1mil+ ehp in 2mins. Just seems like something people use so that their stupidity is not recorded.
Alys Nova	Posted - 2010.08.23 01:45:00 - [5] Edited by: Alys Nova on 23/08/2010 01:50:01 don't see what the problem is. you wanted them dead, they died, faster than you could do it yourself. if it was loot, and killmail you want, self destruct is the pilot's last way of saying F-U . which seems a very nice feature in a game like eve. cold, hard, universe, and all that...edit: or cold, harsh, universe. i can never remember.
Jones Bones Final Agony	Posted - 2010.08.23 02:21:00 - [6] Bring more DPS.
Aerilis Gallente Percussive Diplomacy	Posted - 2010.08.23 03:30:00 - [7] Originally by: Alys Nova Edited by: Alys Nova on 23/08/2010 01:50:01 don't see what the problem is. you wanted them dead, they died, faster than you could do it yourself. if it was loot, and killmail you want, self destruct is the pilot's last way of saying F-U . which seems a very nice feature in a game like eve. cold, hard, universe, and all that...edit: or cold, harsh, universe. i can never remember. It kinda annoys me how people use the "cold harsh universe" argument for every little suggestion for re-balancing some game mechanics. How about every time you undock there's a 50% chance your ships reactor spontaneously fails and it self destructs? That would be cold and harsh. The correct context of that quote is that Eve is coldER and harshER than most games, so it appeals to a different audience. Not that it's designed to be as cold and as harsh as possible, that would just be dumb.
Ashina Sito Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2010.08.23 03:49:00 - [8] Originally by: AfroHorse Has never been a problem apart from 2 carrier pilots that have done massively stupid things e.g. thinking they can fend off their c2 wormhole with it so we can't bring in our dread to take it out quickly so we just dumped curses/t3s on it which although possessing ok dps still can't punch through 1mil+ ehp in 2mins. Just seems like something people use so that their stupidity is not recorded. Your fault for not bringing enough DPS. Your fault for neuting the carrier's to where they have no cap and can't do anything... other then self Destruct. If your not smart enough to let them think they can survive so you can whittle down that EHP to a level you can take out in under 2 minutes, it's your fault. It's part of the game, deal with it. I do wish that they would bring back the ability to trash the contents of your cargo hold. It made flying a hauler through 0.0 so much better. You could fly knowing that no one could get your cargo, even if they could get your ship. Ah, well.
Merdaneth Amarr Galactic Rangers Galactic-Rangers	Posted - 2010.08.23 07:32:00 - [9] Edited by: Merdaneth on 23/08/2010 07:34:17 Originally by: AfroHorse Just wondering what people's opinions on self destructing in pvp is. Basically we have had 2 carriers so far self destructing before we were able to kill them so was just wondering if anyone else felt this should change? If one cannot self-destruct while under fire before one is destroyed, then what is the point of self-destructing? Also, you did kill them unless you think they would have pushed the self-destruct button without you.... Killmails are just a piece of text. If you really want one, I can send you one if another carrier self-destructs. Loot... ah well, that's unfortunate, maybe try a ransom next time? ____ The Illusion of Freedom \| The Truth about Slavery
Cartheron Crust Nemesis Nation	Posted - 2010.08.23 07:46:00 - [10] Remove killmails from the game.
AfroHorse AQUILA INC	Posted - 2010.08.23 09:58:00 - [11] I suppose my point is more valid to finding these guys in wormholes due to the mass limits, generally you can get 10 or maybe 15 battleships in (with return journey) or the equivalent mass of less so we took in 2 curse and a few tengus/canes/harbingers n stuff. Couldn't take a whole lot more in and certainly not enough to drop it in 2 minutes. Just seemed silly that it seems to be ******ed cap pilots get away with it but in general I would assume pretty much no other class of ship can survive the 2 minutes to self destruct (bar possibly uber tanked t3).
Sir Asterix	Posted - 2010.08.23 12:02:00 - [12] You set out to cause the destruction of a carrier, this you did. So no problem here that I can see so far. What you are complaining about I think is not being able to land the killing blow. You must of known that with the vessels at hand it was not going to be a quick kill, did you really expect the carrier pilot to sit their twiddling his/her thumbs? or go make a cup of tea? whilst you slowly carry out the inevitable destruction of their ship. I don't think there is a player out their once the realisation has hit home that they are f***ed who won't hit the self destruct button. Time for you to grow up I think. Be happy that you achived what you set out to do, there's more to life than waving a killmail under other players noises in an effort to prove to them how uber you are.
fivetide humidyear Gallente Fool Mental Junket	Posted - 2010.08.23 12:06:00 - [13] If you are so irritated at missing out on some lines of text to add to your 261 kills for 24 battleclinic losses why not fake up a mail and post it, I'll do it for you for a modest fee. But seriously, you have completed your objective of killing the carriers, it is a pity that loot doesn't drop but that's the way it is. Same as why does all the expensive mods not drop when a ship dies. I do tend to think adding killmails was a mistake tho.
Robert Caldera	Posted - 2010.08.23 12:27:00 - [14] Originally by: AfroHorse Just seemed silly that it seems to be ******ed cap pilots get away with it they dont get away, they loose their ships when selfdestructed.
The Djego Minmatar Hellequin Inc.	Posted - 2010.08.23 13:21:00 - [15] Edited by: The Djego on 23/08/2010 13:23:31 Edited by: The Djego on 23/08/2010 13:22:28 It is a ****ed mechanic, that should not possible during combat or at least should deny the insurance and shut off any module the second you activate it. That's all. Edit: Losing a ship you will lose anyway is not a penalty at all. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by:** Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
Goose99	Posted - 2010.08.23 13:30:00 - [16] Originally by: fivetide humidyear If you are so irritated at missing out on some lines of text to add to your 261 kills for 24 battleclinic losses why not fake up a mail and post it, I'll do it for you for a modest fee. But seriously, you have completed your objective of killing the carriers, it is a pity that loot doesn't drop but that's the way it is. Same as why does all the expensive mods not drop when a ship dies. I do tend to think adding killmails was a mistake tho. Yeah, lol@killboard humper tears cry moar
Robert Caldera	Posted - 2010.08.23 14:30:00 - [17] Originally by: The Djego Edit: Losing a ship you will lose anyway is not a penalty at all. what do you mean with anyway? He is loosing his ship because of his carelessness (regardless how), thats the penalty.
The Djego Minmatar Hellequin Inc.	Posted - 2010.08.23 15:52:00 - [18] Originally by: Robert Caldera Originally by: The Djego Edit: Losing a ship you will lose anyway is not a penalty at all. what do you mean with anyway? He is loosing his ship because of his carelessness (regardless how), thats the penalty. There is no penalty in losing a ship you already lost, like there is no reward in looting a empty wreck. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
Robert Caldera	Posted - 2010.08.23 16:20:00 - [19] Originally by: The Djego There is no penalty in losing a ship you already lost, like there is no reward in looting a empty wreck. but its not already lost as long as you dont take actions. Its only lost upon your actions. Regarding the loot, well, its the whole purpose of SD do deny you the loot, its not your stuff so its its owners decision what do to with it and your fail not being able to kill it quickly. You have no claim for the loot.
Amon I	Posted - 2010.08.23 16:25:00 - [20] Is it my fault that i see every post is troll? anyway i ll bite. consider the following: Some dude caught you, he will slice each piece of your skin off while you are alive, and you can kill your self for a fater death, and now people saying 'fu! give the killer the satisfaction!! you are not allowed to kill yourself!' Less extreme example: In a game of Starcraft 2, 1v1, you rarely gets to finish your opponents last structure off, he sees no hope, he ggs. people crying for no km to brag about is pethetic.
omgfreemoniez	Posted - 2010.08.23 16:45:00 - [21] Originally by: Amon I In a game of Starcraft 2, 1v1, you rarely gets to finish your opponents last structure off, he sees no hope, he ggs. Well EVE isn't a fail game like SC2. People shouldnt be allowed to "gg"
Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic	Posted - 2010.08.23 16:48:00 - [22] Originally by: Cartheron Crust Remove killmails from the game. Supported
Bacchus Dionysus Selective Pressure Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2010.08.23 16:58:00 - [23] killmails provide a picture of pilot/corp/alliance efficiency - kill more isk value than you lose - which is the true measure of pvp quality in eve. self-destruct deprives the eve community of the only useful pvp metric that we have because it (1) allows certain players to hide losses, camouflaging their true ability (also reducing lawls), and, (2) it distorts killboard efficiency, especially in cases where ships were lost before the carrier, etc., self-destructed. i agree that self-destruct should generate a km for the player with the final blow before self destruct. don't really care about the loot.
Merdaneth Amarr Galactic Rangers Galactic-Rangers	Posted - 2010.08.23 17:28:00 - [24] Originally by: Bacchus Dionysus killmails provide a picture of pilot/corp/alliance efficiency - kill more isk value than you lose - which is the true measure of pvp quality in eve. The true measure of PvP? Your kill ratio in isk? Are you serious? Some guy who gets in on a titan killmail with his noob ship is a god of PvP in EVE? I see a large positive kill ratio more as an indication of a pilot who is too scared to take risks. Originally by: Bacchus Dionysus self-destruct deprives the eve community of the only useful pvp metric that we have because it (1) allows certain players to hide losses, camouflaging their true ability (also reducing lawls), and, (2) it distorts killboard efficiency, especially in cases where ships were lost before the carrier, etc., self-destructed. A. it is not a good PvP metric B. the information is not lost, it can still be reported. I guess people don't trust their members to report kills correctly? C. Killboard efficiency is nonsense anyway. I never see anyone complain about distortions due to sharing of kills with other parties. And surely that distortion is several magnitudes larger than a few self-destructs here and there. Just come out and say you want a CCP authorized and approved epeen measurement: 'look ma, I'm at no. 1 on this weeks list!' and don't get all serious about PvP metrics. ____ The Illusion of Freedom \| The Truth about Slavery
knentil	Posted - 2010.08.23 22:02:00 - [25] Sc2 > eve Just sayin.. :p
Jane Vherokior Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2010.08.23 22:27:00 - [26] Originally by: Aerilis It's ****ed. Self-destructing should generate a killmail that puts yourself on it with the weapon "self-destruct" so the world can see what a giant *** you are. Loot I don't really care about. This. Any self-destruct should automatically upload the "suicide mail" to the top 25 killboards.
Ping Fa	Posted - 2010.08.23 23:57:00 - [27] Edited by: Ping Fa on 23/08/2010 23:58:10 Originally by: knentil Sc2 > eve Just sayin.. :p Satan > Blizzard (or should I say Bobby Kotick) Just sayin.. :p
Allant Doran Amarr Fraternitas Renatas	Posted - 2010.08.24 00:57:00 - [28] Originally by: Ping Fa Edited by: Ping Fa on 23/08/2010 23:58:10 Originally by: knentil Sc2 > eve Just sayin.. :p Satan > Blizzard (or should I say Bobby Kotick) Just sayin.. :p hey look, another person who thinks Activion has any say over what Blizzard do. Blizzard and Activision are owned by the same company, Vivendi. The ycannot tell each other what to do but they are linked. Kinda like when you make yourself dinner, your brother doesn't tell you what you want then eat it for you.
Goose99	Posted - 2010.08.24 01:23:00 - [29] Originally by: Merdaneth Originally by: Bacchus Dionysus killmails provide a picture of pilot/corp/alliance efficiency - kill more isk value than you lose - which is the true measure of pvp quality in eve. The true measure of PvP? Your kill ratio in isk? Are you serious? Some guy who gets in on a titan killmail with his noob ship is a god of PvP in EVE? I see a large positive kill ratio more as an indication of a pilot who is too scared to take risks. Originally by: Bacchus Dionysus self-destruct deprives the eve community of the only useful pvp metric that we have because it (1) allows certain players to hide losses, camouflaging their true ability (also reducing lawls), and, (2) it distorts killboard efficiency, especially in cases where ships were lost before the carrier, etc., self-destructed. A. it is not a good PvP metric B. the information is not lost, it can still be reported. I guess people don't trust their members to report kills correctly? C. Killboard efficiency is nonsense anyway. I never see anyone complain about distortions due to sharing of kills with other parties. And surely that distortion is several magnitudes larger than a few self-destructs here and there. Just come out and say you want a CCP authorized and approved epeen measurement: 'look ma, I'm at no. 1 on this weeks list!' and don't get all serious about PvP metrics. ^this Basically, this guy is representative of every other guy that sees your kb stats except you. And that applies to everyone, with roles appropriately switched. Since no one is impress by your kb stats except yourself anyway, it's all just pathetic kb hummping and epeen stroking. It's a game, playing and winning is reward onto itself. Having opponent kill himself and admit defeat is just as good, if not better. KB should be abolished.
Socio Stan	Posted - 2010.08.24 02:06:00 - [30] Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri Originally by: Cartheron Crust Remove killmails from the game. Supported This is good idea.

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