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AfroHorse AQUILA INC	Posted - 2010.08.22 18:38:00 - [1] Just wondering what people's opinions on self destructing in pvp is. Basically we have had 2 carriers so far self destructing before we were able to kill them so was just wondering if anyone else felt this should change?
Aerilis Gallente Percussive Diplomacy	Posted - 2010.08.22 18:46:00 - [2] It's ****ed. Self-destructing should generate a killmail that puts yourself on it with the weapon "self-destruct" so the world can see what a giant *** you are. Loot I don't really care about.
Robert Caldera	Posted - 2010.08.22 19:14:00 - [3] I think its ok mechanic, if you are unable to kill faster, the other just selfdestruct. Legitime tactic IMO, you have to claim to other peoples KMs/loot.
AfroHorse AQUILA INC	Posted - 2010.08.22 19:20:00 - [4] Has never been a problem apart from 2 carrier pilots that have done massively stupid things e.g. thinking they can fend off their c2 wormhole with it so we can't bring in our dread to take it out quickly so we just dumped curses/t3s on it which although possessing ok dps still can't punch through 1mil+ ehp in 2mins. Just seems like something people use so that their stupidity is not recorded.
Alys Nova	Posted - 2010.08.23 01:45:00 - [5] Edited by: Alys Nova on 23/08/2010 01:50:01 don't see what the problem is. you wanted them dead, they died, faster than you could do it yourself. if it was loot, and killmail you want, self destruct is the pilot's last way of saying F-U . which seems a very nice feature in a game like eve. cold, hard, universe, and all that...edit: or cold, harsh, universe. i can never remember.
Jones Bones Final Agony	Posted - 2010.08.23 02:21:00 - [6] Bring more DPS.
Aerilis Gallente Percussive Diplomacy	Posted - 2010.08.23 03:30:00 - [7] Originally by: Alys Nova Edited by: Alys Nova on 23/08/2010 01:50:01 don't see what the problem is. you wanted them dead, they died, faster than you could do it yourself. if it was loot, and killmail you want, self destruct is the pilot's last way of saying F-U . which seems a very nice feature in a game like eve. cold, hard, universe, and all that...edit: or cold, harsh, universe. i can never remember. It kinda annoys me how people use the "cold harsh universe" argument for every little suggestion for re-balancing some game mechanics. How about every time you undock there's a 50% chance your ships reactor spontaneously fails and it self destructs? That would be cold and harsh. The correct context of that quote is that Eve is coldER and harshER than most games, so it appeals to a different audience. Not that it's designed to be as cold and as harsh as possible, that would just be dumb.
Ashina Sito Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2010.08.23 03:49:00 - [8] Originally by: AfroHorse Has never been a problem apart from 2 carrier pilots that have done massively stupid things e.g. thinking they can fend off their c2 wormhole with it so we can't bring in our dread to take it out quickly so we just dumped curses/t3s on it which although possessing ok dps still can't punch through 1mil+ ehp in 2mins. Just seems like something people use so that their stupidity is not recorded. Your fault for not bringing enough DPS. Your fault for neuting the carrier's to where they have no cap and can't do anything... other then self Destruct. If your not smart enough to let them think they can survive so you can whittle down that EHP to a level you can take out in under 2 minutes, it's your fault. It's part of the game, deal with it. I do wish that they would bring back the ability to trash the contents of your cargo hold. It made flying a hauler through 0.0 so much better. You could fly knowing that no one could get your cargo, even if they could get your ship. Ah, well.
Merdaneth Amarr Galactic Rangers Galactic-Rangers	Posted - 2010.08.23 07:32:00 - [9] Edited by: Merdaneth on 23/08/2010 07:34:17 Originally by: AfroHorse Just wondering what people's opinions on self destructing in pvp is. Basically we have had 2 carriers so far self destructing before we were able to kill them so was just wondering if anyone else felt this should change? If one cannot self-destruct while under fire before one is destroyed, then what is the point of self-destructing? Also, you did kill them unless you think they would have pushed the self-destruct button without you.... Killmails are just a piece of text. If you really want one, I can send you one if another carrier self-destructs. Loot... ah well, that's unfortunate, maybe try a ransom next time? ____ The Illusion of Freedom \| The Truth about Slavery
Cartheron Crust Nemesis Nation	Posted - 2010.08.23 07:46:00 - [10] Remove killmails from the game.
AfroHorse AQUILA INC	Posted - 2010.08.23 09:58:00 - [11] I suppose my point is more valid to finding these guys in wormholes due to the mass limits, generally you can get 10 or maybe 15 battleships in (with return journey) or the equivalent mass of less so we took in 2 curse and a few tengus/canes/harbingers n stuff. Couldn't take a whole lot more in and certainly not enough to drop it in 2 minutes. Just seemed silly that it seems to be ******ed cap pilots get away with it but in general I would assume pretty much no other class of ship can survive the 2 minutes to self destruct (bar possibly uber tanked t3).
Sir Asterix	Posted - 2010.08.23 12:02:00 - [12] You set out to cause the destruction of a carrier, this you did. So no problem here that I can see so far. What you are complaining about I think is not being able to land the killing blow. You must of known that with the vessels at hand it was not going to be a quick kill, did you really expect the carrier pilot to sit their twiddling his/her thumbs? or go make a cup of tea? whilst you slowly carry out the inevitable destruction of their ship. I don't think there is a player out their once the realisation has hit home that they are f***ed who won't hit the self destruct button. Time for you to grow up I think. Be happy that you achived what you set out to do, there's more to life than waving a killmail under other players noises in an effort to prove to them how uber you are.
fivetide humidyear Gallente Fool Mental Junket	Posted - 2010.08.23 12:06:00 - [13] If you are so irritated at missing out on some lines of text to add to your 261 kills for 24 battleclinic losses why not fake up a mail and post it, I'll do it for you for a modest fee. But seriously, you have completed your objective of killing the carriers, it is a pity that loot doesn't drop but that's the way it is. Same as why does all the expensive mods not drop when a ship dies. I do tend to think adding killmails was a mistake tho.
Robert Caldera	Posted - 2010.08.23 12:27:00 - [14] Originally by: AfroHorse Just seemed silly that it seems to be ******ed cap pilots get away with it they dont get away, they loose their ships when selfdestructed.
The Djego Minmatar Hellequin Inc.	Posted - 2010.08.23 13:21:00 - [15] Edited by: The Djego on 23/08/2010 13:23:31 Edited by: The Djego on 23/08/2010 13:22:28 It is a ****ed mechanic, that should not possible during combat or at least should deny the insurance and shut off any module the second you activate it. That's all. Edit: Losing a ship you will lose anyway is not a penalty at all. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by:** Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
Goose99	Posted - 2010.08.23 13:30:00 - [16] Originally by: fivetide humidyear If you are so irritated at missing out on some lines of text to add to your 261 kills for 24 battleclinic losses why not fake up a mail and post it, I'll do it for you for a modest fee. But seriously, you have completed your objective of killing the carriers, it is a pity that loot doesn't drop but that's the way it is. Same as why does all the expensive mods not drop when a ship dies. I do tend to think adding killmails was a mistake tho. Yeah, lol@killboard humper tears cry moar
Robert Caldera	Posted - 2010.08.23 14:30:00 - [17] Originally by: The Djego Edit: Losing a ship you will lose anyway is not a penalty at all. what do you mean with anyway? He is loosing his ship because of his carelessness (regardless how), thats the penalty.
The Djego Minmatar Hellequin Inc.	Posted - 2010.08.23 15:52:00 - [18] Originally by: Robert Caldera Originally by: The Djego Edit: Losing a ship you will lose anyway is not a penalty at all. what do you mean with anyway? He is loosing his ship because of his carelessness (regardless how), thats the penalty. There is no penalty in losing a ship you already lost, like there is no reward in looting a empty wreck. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
Robert Caldera	Posted - 2010.08.23 16:20:00 - [19] Originally by: The Djego There is no penalty in losing a ship you already lost, like there is no reward in looting a empty wreck. but its not already lost as long as you dont take actions. Its only lost upon your actions. Regarding the loot, well, its the whole purpose of SD do deny you the loot, its not your stuff so its its owners decision what do to with it and your fail not being able to kill it quickly. You have no claim for the loot.
Amon I	Posted - 2010.08.23 16:25:00 - [20] Is it my fault that i see every post is troll? anyway i ll bite. consider the following: Some dude caught you, he will slice each piece of your skin off while you are alive, and you can kill your self for a fater death, and now people saying 'fu! give the killer the satisfaction!! you are not allowed to kill yourself!' Less extreme example: In a game of Starcraft 2, 1v1, you rarely gets to finish your opponents last structure off, he sees no hope, he ggs. people crying for no km to brag about is pethetic.
omgfreemoniez	Posted - 2010.08.23 16:45:00 - [21] Originally by: Amon I In a game of Starcraft 2, 1v1, you rarely gets to finish your opponents last structure off, he sees no hope, he ggs. Well EVE isn't a fail game like SC2. People shouldnt be allowed to "gg"
Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic	Posted - 2010.08.23 16:48:00 - [22] Originally by: Cartheron Crust Remove killmails from the game. Supported
Bacchus Dionysus Selective Pressure Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2010.08.23 16:58:00 - [23] killmails provide a picture of pilot/corp/alliance efficiency - kill more isk value than you lose - which is the true measure of pvp quality in eve. self-destruct deprives the eve community of the only useful pvp metric that we have because it (1) allows certain players to hide losses, camouflaging their true ability (also reducing lawls), and, (2) it distorts killboard efficiency, especially in cases where ships were lost before the carrier, etc., self-destructed. i agree that self-destruct should generate a km for the player with the final blow before self destruct. don't really care about the loot.
Merdaneth Amarr Galactic Rangers Galactic-Rangers	Posted - 2010.08.23 17:28:00 - [24] Originally by: Bacchus Dionysus killmails provide a picture of pilot/corp/alliance efficiency - kill more isk value than you lose - which is the true measure of pvp quality in eve. The true measure of PvP? Your kill ratio in isk? Are you serious? Some guy who gets in on a titan killmail with his noob ship is a god of PvP in EVE? I see a large positive kill ratio more as an indication of a pilot who is too scared to take risks. Originally by: Bacchus Dionysus self-destruct deprives the eve community of the only useful pvp metric that we have because it (1) allows certain players to hide losses, camouflaging their true ability (also reducing lawls), and, (2) it distorts killboard efficiency, especially in cases where ships were lost before the carrier, etc., self-destructed. A. it is not a good PvP metric B. the information is not lost, it can still be reported. I guess people don't trust their members to report kills correctly? C. Killboard efficiency is nonsense anyway. I never see anyone complain about distortions due to sharing of kills with other parties. And surely that distortion is several magnitudes larger than a few self-destructs here and there. Just come out and say you want a CCP authorized and approved epeen measurement: 'look ma, I'm at no. 1 on this weeks list!' and don't get all serious about PvP metrics. ____ The Illusion of Freedom \| The Truth about Slavery
knentil	Posted - 2010.08.23 22:02:00 - [25] Sc2 > eve Just sayin.. :p
Jane Vherokior Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2010.08.23 22:27:00 - [26] Originally by: Aerilis It's ****ed. Self-destructing should generate a killmail that puts yourself on it with the weapon "self-destruct" so the world can see what a giant *** you are. Loot I don't really care about. This. Any self-destruct should automatically upload the "suicide mail" to the top 25 killboards.
Ping Fa	Posted - 2010.08.23 23:57:00 - [27] Edited by: Ping Fa on 23/08/2010 23:58:10 Originally by: knentil Sc2 > eve Just sayin.. :p Satan > Blizzard (or should I say Bobby Kotick) Just sayin.. :p
Allant Doran Amarr Fraternitas Renatas	Posted - 2010.08.24 00:57:00 - [28] Originally by: Ping Fa Edited by: Ping Fa on 23/08/2010 23:58:10 Originally by: knentil Sc2 > eve Just sayin.. :p Satan > Blizzard (or should I say Bobby Kotick) Just sayin.. :p hey look, another person who thinks Activion has any say over what Blizzard do. Blizzard and Activision are owned by the same company, Vivendi. The ycannot tell each other what to do but they are linked. Kinda like when you make yourself dinner, your brother doesn't tell you what you want then eat it for you.
Goose99	Posted - 2010.08.24 01:23:00 - [29] Originally by: Merdaneth Originally by: Bacchus Dionysus killmails provide a picture of pilot/corp/alliance efficiency - kill more isk value than you lose - which is the true measure of pvp quality in eve. The true measure of PvP? Your kill ratio in isk? Are you serious? Some guy who gets in on a titan killmail with his noob ship is a god of PvP in EVE? I see a large positive kill ratio more as an indication of a pilot who is too scared to take risks. Originally by: Bacchus Dionysus self-destruct deprives the eve community of the only useful pvp metric that we have because it (1) allows certain players to hide losses, camouflaging their true ability (also reducing lawls), and, (2) it distorts killboard efficiency, especially in cases where ships were lost before the carrier, etc., self-destructed. A. it is not a good PvP metric B. the information is not lost, it can still be reported. I guess people don't trust their members to report kills correctly? C. Killboard efficiency is nonsense anyway. I never see anyone complain about distortions due to sharing of kills with other parties. And surely that distortion is several magnitudes larger than a few self-destructs here and there. Just come out and say you want a CCP authorized and approved epeen measurement: 'look ma, I'm at no. 1 on this weeks list!' and don't get all serious about PvP metrics. ^this Basically, this guy is representative of every other guy that sees your kb stats except you. And that applies to everyone, with roles appropriately switched. Since no one is impress by your kb stats except yourself anyway, it's all just pathetic kb hummping and epeen stroking. It's a game, playing and winning is reward onto itself. Having opponent kill himself and admit defeat is just as good, if not better. KB should be abolished.
Socio Stan	Posted - 2010.08.24 02:06:00 - [30] Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri Originally by: Cartheron Crust Remove killmails from the game. Supported This is good idea.
Marcus Henik	Posted - 2010.08.24 13:11:00 - [31] I love self destruct, good way to geneate the rare vintage of pirate tears.
Jeneroux Gallente	Posted - 2010.08.24 13:36:00 - [32] If you catch me. The least I can do is annoy you.
Draco Carollis Amarr The Dead Canary Mining Corporation Talos Coalition	Posted - 2010.08.25 01:33:00 - [33] An old enemy of our corp was attempting Grand Theft Mobile Lab, and I was performing hit and run attacks with a meta-fit sniping Megathron to defy them (I had no chance of winning, but you never did know). Took down one tackling rifter that attempted to pin me, and got the pod, but the second I just missed (and only one hit would have done it). I was pointed, and a T2 fit close range Abbadon warped next to me. I knew at that moment I was going down. So I deployed sentries, turned on DCU, targeted the abbadon, hit approach and activated Self destruct. He had 2 minutes to kill me, and he failed - I SD'd with 50% hull remaining, and he had 50% armour left. Next time, I'll also load Antimatter and overheat my guns - didn't have either that day. Is it a legitimate tactic? Yes. All is fair in love and war. You don't like it, bring more DPS. My experience with PvP is that a primaried target goes down in 30 seconds.
Razzor Death Antares Shipyards Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2010.08.25 02:01:00 - [34] Make a fake mail and **** fit it, upload to major kb sites. The tears you get our epic. -------------------------------------------------- I'm posting in your thread and I didn't even read the OP v0v
Creiter	Posted - 2010.08.25 02:18:00 - [35] Originally by: AfroHorse Just wondering what people's opinions on self destructing in pvp is. Basically we have had 2 carriers so far self destructing before we were able to kill them so was just wondering if anyone else felt this should change? No one cares. All KB generated stats are player generated, just as EVEmon is player created and maintained. As CCP doesn't care enough to create some kind of in game EVEmon aside from the crappy counter under player stats and we are solely responsible to keep something in the que, CCP shouldn't be responsible to produce a secure record of ship destruction so you can record it. Hell, you might as well ask for "EVEbox Live" achievements that unlock for every so many kills generated for a specific ship class. The only record I would care to see is now that we have EVEGate it could be an "offical source" of "Player X Destroyed Player Y" without listing who flew what, did how much damage, in what alliance/corp, in what system, and what modules dropped. I don't need to know down to what exact utility modules someone was flying, all PVP ships have a weapon system that easily identifiable that has MWD/Web/buffer type and corresponding rigs.
Bacchus Dionysus Selective Pressure Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2010.08.25 12:38:00 - [36] i admit that efficiency is a better measure of corp/alliance pvp quality than individual player quality, and that pro bncing distorts that number as much as self-destructing. never really done the blobfest, so i guess maybe someone who hides in big fleets might get high efficiency with little skill as well. like any statistic, it's more accurate as your sample gets larger. it's not so much about epeen stroking as it is about evaluating your own (alliance/corp/pilot) success and having the tools to quantify improvements or identify systemic failures. that said, taking risks and killing ships > taking risks and dying, so overall efficiency remains a good measure pvp success. anything that gives us a better picture of what is actually happening in pvp (km from self-destruct)is a positive change.
SwissChris1	Posted - 2010.08.25 12:43:00 - [37] Originally by: Aerilis How about every time you undock there's a 50% chance your ships reactor spontaneously fails and it self destructs? That would be cold and harsh. haha or what if there was a small chance that your warp drive blows up mid-warp and you get stuck in the middle of no where until someone finds you
bornaa	Posted - 2010.08.25 15:07:00 - [38] Originally by: Merdaneth The true measure of PvP? Your kill ratio in isk? Are you serious? Some guy who gets in on a titan killmail with his noob ship is a god of PvP in EVE? I see a large positive kill ratio more as an indication of a pilot who is too scared to take risks. well you have to be pretty damn stupid (nothing personal...umm...ok, just a little) if you think the god of pvp is the guy that ***d on a titan km in a ibis. or the guy that only undocks when he has a fleet of 30 people behind him and gets his 100% efficiency this way. however, if you analyze killmails a lil better you can see who are the skilled pvp'ers and what they do, and since for some reason eve doesnt have this implemented, killboard stats are the only sense of accomplishment most of us pvp-ers have in this game. Originally by:** Merdaneth A. it is not a good PvP metric its all we have at the moment so deal with it. there is no other way to show someone what you have done in pvp but this. Originally by: Merdaneth B. the information is not lost, it can still be reported. I guess people don't trust their members to report kills correctly? report how? oh you mean like a mental killmail but without any details? and then you go on a killboard and post what looks like an imaginary kill without any detailed info? dumbest thing i ever heard. just send in the damn killmail then. Originally by: Merdaneth C. Killboard efficiency is nonsense anyway. I never see anyone complain about distortions due to sharing of kills with other parties. And surely that distortion is several magnitudes larger than a few self-destructs here and there. if its nonsense then why did ccp make this sd mechanic send no killmail and drop no loot? and people that DO self destruct care about the "nonsense" killboard efficiency and exploit the system. someone worked their ass off and maybe risked alot to catch that carrier and this SD way he gets no recognition or money for his efforts or risks. some people live off pvp too you know? this would feel to carebears like your last boss in your plex you spend hours to clear self destructs when he sees hes gonna get killed and doesnt drop them few billionss of loot. and alot of people that pvp dont care about money, they just want a killmail to show so its even worse to deprive them of the prize they fought for. Originally by: Merdaneth Just come out and say you want a CCP authorized and approved epeen measurement: 'look ma, I'm at no. 1 on this weeks list!' and don't get all serious about PvP metrics. well whats wrong about that? its a competitive game and killmails are the only way to measure someones success. i dont know why you play this game, maybe you use it like an extended chatroom or enjoy killing ****ed artificial intelligence ships and make 100000 zillion isk you have no clue what to spend on. what if that carrier you were "supposed" to kill was full faction fitted and was worth 50 bil isk? o wait, he self destructed so we'll never know. but we can say we killed A carrier. its a ****ed mechanic. end of story.
bornaa	Posted - 2010.08.25 15:17:00 - [39] Originally by: Jones Bones Bring more DPS. dumbest reason ever. you are about to kill a bigger ship with a smaller fleet and you get rewarded with no loot or killmail? yes lets stimulate more blobbing in eve, please.
Razzor Death Antares Shipyards Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2010.08.25 17:24:00 - [40] I really wasn't trolling, just fake it. The amount they cry when they see you went ahead and did it anyway. You attacked carrier, you saw it explode, they don't own a carrier anymore. Its not like you invented a loss. Killmails are a nightmare to get rid of when they start circulating. Flame away -------------------------------------------------- I'm posting in your thread and I didn't even read the OP v0v
bornaa	Posted - 2010.08.25 17:33:00 - [41] Edited by: bornaa on 25/08/2010 17:33:08 Originally by: Razzor Death I really wasn't trolling, just fake it. The amount they cry when they see you went ahead and did it anyway. You attacked carrier, you saw it explode, they don't own a carrier anymore. Its not like you invented a loss. Killmails are a nightmare to get rid of when they start circulating. Flame away actually its a great idea. fake the killmail of the guy that sd'd with a handsome faction fit. and lets see him justify it how it isnt true. :D
Bacchus Dionysus Selective Pressure Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2010.08.25 23:54:00 - [42] Originally by: Razzor Death Killmails are a nightmare to get rid of when they start circulating. yeah exactly. just don't allow self-destruct when a pilot is aggressed or targeted, tbh.
Storm Shield	Posted - 2010.08.26 08:07:00 - [43] It's True.......Epeeen Tears ARE Funnier than Care Bear Tears Now as I have heard you Epeeeners out there ,say to all the Care Bears that you so happily gank and then laugh at them when they complain. "Do us all a favour......Get a cup of concrete and drink it all down and harden the UP!" It's a game with a two way street....and only a fool trys to drive down the wrong side of the road.
Razzor Death Antares Shipyards Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2010.08.26 12:39:00 - [44] See above for example of tears when you dare to fake anyway. -------------------------------------------------- I'm posting in your thread and I didn't even read the OP v0v
bornaa	Posted - 2010.08.26 14:00:00 - [45] Originally by: Storm Shield Now as I have heard you Epeeeners out there ,say to all the Care Bears that you so happily gank and then laugh at them when they complain. It's a game with a two way street....and only a fool trys to drive down the wrong side of the road. to stop being a dumbass carebear that is afk minning/ratting can be overcome by the player itself. ****ty mechanic that gives you no reward when you "win" can't.
wizard87	Posted - 2010.08.26 14:22:00 - [46] I agree with Aeriliis; so many other idiots and carebears here its unreal. For all the ammo and time you spend shooting a cap, to not even get a mail when they self destruct is daft. You even get mails from crappy towers and for every new damn noob ship you get, so why not from self destructing capships? The denial argument fails because the real denial from a self destruct comes in denial of loot - denial of the event ever happening by not producing a mail is daft. Destruction of the ship is the reward/owners pain - the killmail is just a statement of that fact - Anyone getting butthurt by idiots Epeen waving of killmails is a delicate flower indeed. It should generate a mail with damage done etc like normal, but saying the person proudly self destructed. Will probably not happen though as CCP have not got the resource to do any sensible changes lately.
Schalac Caldari Apocalypse Reign	Posted - 2010.08.27 01:09:00 - [47] You roam systems running from hundreds of players a day until you find that one ship that you can kill in 5 seconds with zero chance of loss. You do this day in and day out padding your KB stats just so that you can say you are a god at PvP. That is not skill, yet it's basically what all of the "1337" PvPers do. Well congratulations, you win EVE. Now suck it up buttercup and quit crying about people taking away your precious. SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN
GavinGoodrich Important Internet Spaceship League	Posted - 2010.08.27 02:49:00 - [48] Originally by: Merdaneth Edited by: Merdaneth on 23/08/2010 07:34:17 Killmails are just a piece of text. If you really want one, I can send you one if another carrier self-destructs. Well said, sir. \o
Merdaneth Amarr Galactic Rangers Galactic-Rangers	Posted - 2010.08.27 08:08:00 - [49] Originally by: Bacchus Dionysus edit: rereading and thinking about this, it's important to note that for me kb stats are not so much about epeen stroking as they are about evaluating your own (alliance/corp/pilot) success and having the tools to quantify improvements or identify systemic failures. Many people say this. Although nobody asks to divide the 'kills' and the 'isk' by the number of pilots on the killmail. Most look more at their isk efficiency and number of kills than look at a weighted point system. Racking up high scores is what interests most people in killboards, not actual tools, or such tools and good stats would be hugely more popular. It doesn't take a genius to note that giving 40 people 1 kill each when they shoot someone is not the same as a single pilot getting one kill when he shoots the same ship solo. It is not hard to work such a thing into KB software. ____ The Illusion of Freedom \| The Truth about Slavery
AdZc Caldari Legio Prima Victrix	Posted - 2010.08.27 15:35:00 - [50] Edited by: AdZc on 27/08/2010 15:48:43 Edited by: AdZc on 27/08/2010 15:36:12 Originally by: Allant Doran Originally by: Ping Fa Edited by: Ping Fa on 23/08/2010 23:58:10 Originally by: knentil Sc2 > eve Just sayin.. :p Satan > Blizzard (or should I say Bobby Kotick) Just sayin.. :p hey look, another person who thinks Activion has any say over what Blizzard do. Blizzard and Activision are owned by the same company, Vivendi. The ycannot tell each other what to do but they are linked. Kinda like when you make yourself dinner, your brother doesn't tell you what you want then eat it for you. Lol who said anything about Activision? And i agree with that anyway. Satan > Activision and Blizzard both (and apple,bunige, IW...i could go on) /end derail p.s. self destruct is fine, its better than an eject? only problem is they may get ready to pod u. better to wait till ur about to pop.... eject and warp, you get ur pod out and they dont stop shooting and blow the ship neway. Ofc there is a risk they get ur carrier. p.p.s. even better, at about 10secs before self destruct, eject and warp, no chance they will be able to board. Mind you does anyone know if a self destruct cancels on eject? Originally by: Wacktopia 1.In r/l blasters actually hit the target becoz they were made better after the web nerf 2.Minny grls wil do pretty-much anything. 3.Quafe tastes like ass*(I know this becoz of 2.
Eris Davion	Posted - 2010.08.27 18:31:00 - [51] Edited by: Eris Davion on 27/08/2010 18:34:39 Originally by: The Djego Edited by: The Djego on 23/08/2010 13:23:31 Edited by: The Djego on 23/08/2010 13:22:28 It is a ******ed mechanic, that should not possible during combat or at least should deny the insurance and shut off any module the second you activate it. That's all. Edit: Losing a ship you will lose anyway is not a penalty at all. Why shouldn't it be possible? If suicide-ganking in hi-sec is fair-game, then I don't see a (mechanical) problem with self-destructing to deny loot/killmail.
Taedrin Gallente White Haven Corp	Posted - 2010.08.27 22:31:00 - [52] My opinion? Self destructing should generate a kill mail, but also destroy all loot. The act of "scuttling" a ship as an act of defiance is perfectly fine. ---------- Originally by: Dr Fighter "how do you know when youve had a repro accident" Theres modules missing and morphite in your mineral pile.
Cucumber Sammiches	Posted - 2010.08.28 08:40:00 - [53] Pfft, just post a fake killmail
NightHaunter Minmatar Ship Construction Services Damu'Khonde	Posted - 2010.08.28 23:54:00 - [54] Self-destructing should cause a large AoE damage. Should also provide a mail. I want to see both.
Paxi Plexi Gallente	Posted - 2010.08.29 13:55:00 - [55] About another improvement to killmails: Why not just assign a point alue to any ship (as is done in KBs already, although I don't know how that is computed) and whenever the attackers have more than twice the points of the victim(s) the killmail shows no names but just: poor VICTIM was utterly blobbed by ### cowards.
Scoundrelus The Black Fleet	Posted - 2010.08.30 04:33:00 - [56] Originally by: Bacchus Dionysus killmails provide a picture of pilot/corp/alliance efficiency - kill more isk value than you lose - which is the true measure of pvp quality in eve. self-destruct deprives the eve community of the only useful pvp metric that we have because it (1) allows certain players to hide losses, camouflaging their true ability (also reducing lawls), and, (2) it distorts killboard efficiency, especially in cases where ships were lost before the carrier, etc., self-destructed. i agree that self-destruct should generate a km for the player with the final blow before self destruct. don't really care about the loot. This has to be a joke right? "camouflaging their true ability"? Buddy I got news for you, you can check the top killer on an alliance/corp killboard who has like 1000+ kills and you'll see involved parties are about 15 - 200. This is especially true of large 0.0 alliances and Merc Corps, both boast their awesome PvP ability but all their kb shows is that they can take on one ship with 15 ships + ECM. There's no "true ability" there, just CTRL-Click + F1. On top of all that killboards are very deceptive, for example I'm part of a high quality PvP corp but our killboard sucks at the moment because we're in a huge transitional period and haven't been on a single op. Killmails don't provide **** but e-peen enlargement that's why all these clowns are always screaming "wait let me get on the killmail!".
Portmanteau	Posted - 2010.09.02 06:38:00 - [57] Originally by: Aerilis It's ****ed. Self-destructing should generate a killmail that puts yourself on it with the weapon "self-destruct" so the world can see what a giant *** you are. Loot I don't really care about. Get rid of killmails, then the effect is just about the same anyway, they lost their ship, you made them do it.
5hadow Wolf	Posted - 2010.09.03 17:29:00 - [58] Originally by: Cartheron Crust Remove kill-mails from the game. Meh, Corp sites would be filled with screen-shots afterwards.
Caldari citizen52145894561	Posted - 2010.09.05 05:53:00 - [59] actually I think it was changed recently, self destruct now drops a wreak and loot, but no kill mail. why did they nerf it, they should have made self destruct instant, they should make pirates WORK for their isk other than farming carebears
Portmanteau	Posted - 2010.09.05 11:00:00 - [60] Originally by: Caldari citizen52145894561 actually I think it was changed recently, self destruct now drops a wreak and loot, but no kill mail. why did they nerf it, they should have made self destruct instant, they should make pirates WORK for their isk other than farming carebears instant ? hahahaha u are srsly dumb, no loot would ever be dropped again
Jesmine Kyriel Amarr House Kyriel Inc.	Posted - 2010.09.06 04:38:00 - [61] Originally by: Bacchus Dionysus killmails provide a picture of pilot/corp/alliance efficiency - kill more isk value than you lose - which is the true measure of pvp quality in eve. self-destruct deprives the eve community of the only useful pvp metric that we have because it (1) allows certain players to hide losses, camouflaging their true ability (also reducing lawls), and, (2) it distorts killboard efficiency, especially in cases where ships were lost before the carrier, etc., self-destructed. i agree that self-destruct should generate a km for the player with the final blow before self destruct. don't really care about the loot. If Self-destructing provided a 'kill-mail' it would mean that the ship was somehow 'killed'. There is a difference between 'he was killed' (as in, murdered) and 'he killed himself'. (suicide) Also, I agree 100% with Merdaneth. Kill-mails give players an 'uber-meter' to slave under that frankly, I'm beginning to hate. I've seen so many 'good PVP'ers' that only ever engage when the odds completely and utterly favor them to maintain an awesome kill-board statistic. You dec industry corps, not for the 'action' or any reason that might otherwise apply, but because they are low-skilled and likely inexperianced fighters. It's easy killings, and thus easy to pat one's KB with. I honestly wish more people had the spine to fight despite somewhat 'even' odds instead of just blobing up until all attempts at opposition is a waste of time and isk. I wish more people had time to self-destruct when in situations that were completely un-winnable, if only to flip the bird at those spineless cowards why needed 10-1 odds to even dare attack. _________________________ Reformist, loyal to the Amarrian Empire.
Durzel The Xenodus Initiative.	Posted - 2010.09.06 12:41:00 - [62] Edited by: Durzel on 06/09/2010 12:40:52 I find it peculiar that people can get so obsessive over something that: 1) Is often completely inaccurate anyway (Damage Taken), session changes reset damage, etc. 2) Doesn't tell the whole story (logistics not included unless they are themselves km-whores with drones, etc) It's a basic measurement of just being somewhere at the right place at the right time with insurmountable force(s), that's about it.
Cho Kurisira	Posted - 2010.09.12 20:27:00 - [63] Originally by: Allant Doran Originally by: Ping Fa Edited by: Ping Fa on 23/08/2010 23:58:10 Originally by: knentil Sc2 > eve Just sayin.. :p Satan > Blizzard (or should I say Bobby Kotick) Just sayin.. :p hey look, another person who thinks Activion has any say over what Blizzard do. Blizzard and Activision are owned by the same company, Vivendi. The ycannot tell each other what to do but they are linked. Kinda like when you make yourself dinner, your brother doesn't tell you what you want then eat it for you. Hey look, another person who doesn't understand the corporate structure spouting out crap. Blizzard and Activision were both put under the control of a new company called Activision Blizzard when the deal with vivendi was made in 2008. Bobby Kotick runs Activision Blizzard and guess what? That leaves him in control of Blizzard. Activision Blizzard's senior management Do take note that everyone except for Morhaime listed there comes from activision. A few months ago Tippl was put in charge of the Blizzard business unit. That's who Morhaime now reports to and he reports to Kotick. Basically, now that the deal is done any blizzard people are being pushed out of the senior management and the team kotick brought from activision is in charge. Massively article on the restructuring this year Activision isn't in charge of Blizzard, but kotick and his management team that came from activision are in charge of Blizzard.
adrobomb	Posted - 2010.09.23 04:52:00 - [64] LOL at pvp'ers complaining about lost kill mails and or loot from self destruct but then expect mission runners and care bears to cop it sweet when they ninja loot to agro a fight and cause loss of loot and or ship or even target wrecks to extend agro timers the list goes on...... cry cry.... pot kettle scenario, tis always just about me and my wants..... make self destruct on 10sec timer imo.... sword cuts both ways.....
Baron Wikkheiser Bonny Buccaneers	Posted - 2010.09.23 15:33:00 - [65] Originally by: adrobomb LOL at pvp'ers complaining about lost kill mails and or loot from self destruct but then expect mission runners and care bears to cop it sweet when they ninja loot to agro a fight and cause loss of loot and or ship or even target wrecks to extend agro timers the list goes on...... cry cry.... pot kettle scenario, tis always just about me and my wants..... make self destruct on 10sec timer imo.... sword cuts both ways..... don't stop posting
Cpt Smasher	Posted - 2010.09.23 16:49:00 - [66] I dont get it... You wanted the ship dead. Its still dead. He still lost isk. =/
chatgris Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2010.09.23 17:51:00 - [67] Edited by: chatgris on 23/09/2010 17:54:32 Originally by: Cpt Smasher I dont get it... You wanted the ship dead. Its still dead. He still lost isk. =/ I wanted the killmail! I don't particularly want him to lose ISK, and I often offer to give the loot back to my opponent in 1v1's. I've had a few wartargets eject from their ships - and I've always blown the ship up because it's the killmail I am going after. Any module drop is quickly turned to ISK or put on ships to get blown up. But a killmail - that's a long term record of the fight, something I can look back at later and remember the excitement with. A friend of mine would happily self-destruct his ship after every fight if it meant he could get good fights continuously, and has public posted this in this forum section (Aerilis if you really want to look him up). I don't think that the tears and destruction is as big of a motivator in the game that it is portrayed on the forums - the fight is the exciting part.
Cpt Smasher	Posted - 2010.09.23 18:24:00 - [68] Originally by: chatgris Edited by: chatgris on 23/09/2010 17:54:32 Originally by: Cpt Smasher I dont get it... You wanted the ship dead. Its still dead. He still lost isk. =/ I wanted the killmail! I don't particularly want him to lose ISK, and I often offer to give the loot back to my opponent in 1v1's. I've had a few wartargets eject from their ships - and I've always blown the ship up because it's the killmail I am going after. Any module drop is quickly turned to ISK or put on ships to get blown up. But a killmail - that's a long term record of the fight, something I can look back at later and remember the excitement with. A friend of mine would happily self-destruct his ship after every fight if it meant he could get good fights continuously, and has public posted this in this forum section (Aerilis if you really want to look him up). I don't think that the tears and destruction is as big of a motivator in the game that it is portrayed on the forums - the fight is the exciting part. Fair enough. And i can understand that, infact that's why i like killmails. What i don't like is how much of eve is killboard this or that. I prefer small gang pvp. I also fly logistics. I don't make killmails. But i know damn well i was there. It just makes good good sense that if the pilot is dead, the pilot is dead. You sir, Are an exception to the norm. Also, I have fought most of you Qcats.... And props. yall are some good pilots.
Millie Clode Amarr Red Federation	Posted - 2010.09.23 18:39:00 - [69] Cry more. Or like, bring more DPS or something ---------- Who, me?
Alexandra Kulikov	Posted - 2010.09.23 22:34:00 - [70] Originally by: Jones Bones Bring more DPS. more dots
Bourreau The Tuskers	Posted - 2010.09.24 04:34:00 - [71] Originally by: Creiter I don't need to know down to what exact utility modules someone was flying, all PVP ships have a weapon system that easily identifiable that has MWD/Web/buffer type and corresponding rigs. There is no benefit to knowing someone's ship fitting tendencies? Not everyone uses cookie cutter loadouts. In regards to the op ccp will no doubt revisit this "feature" sooner or later.

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