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Chesty McJubblies
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
   |
Posted - 2010.08.27 19:31:00 -
[61]
k. I guess they get round the "you are griefing" part, by offering it for a stupid price.
Suggestion: Remove the "new topic" button from everywhere apart from the list of topics section within a subforum.
That'd save those with chronic hand/eye coordination some face. |
Zavulon Sukkot
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
|
Posted - 2010.08.27 19:47:00 -
[62]
So tell me Chesty, what DO you think is a fair price for your mission objective?
When we repossess an improperly secured mission objective, there is some intrinsic value, greater than 0 ISK which we could expect to be paid in exchange for the priveledge of you continuing your grind.
On the flip side, you can choose not to pay that, and incur the standings.
Thirdly, you could attempt to metagame the system and trick GMs into giving you another copy of the mission item, regardless of the existence of a market (which might not always be liquid, mind you) for these items.
Forthly, you could use measures, some of which have been detailed in this very thread to secure what you believe to be your property.
At no point here do I see 'griefing', at least as I understand the EULA, being engaged against a player. I don't think EVE's ever been setup to keep your mission to yourself, unlike most of the other games out there in recent years.
It seems to me that a common misconception in many high-security players in EVE is that they are entitled to exist without interaction. Sure, some people think that shouldn't be the case.
If not, why? EVE has never been about handing out entitlements, as far as I can see. Please present a case that doesn't reduce to asserting that you have the right to mission uninterrupted.
in ur deadspaces, steelin ur stuffz! 
NATI. |
Tobin Shalim
Eclipse Industrials
Quantum Forge
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Posted - 2010.08.28 06:25:00 -
[63]
 Originally by: Ovar Doce
Coming from a Corporation that has pilots can baiting in high sec belts, this is just righteous.
Honestly, it's not my place to comment on corp affairs, but I will say that the guy in question has been dealt with. I also add that it's just one guy that's been doing it.
-----
Originally by: Gierling
Tech III is going to be "Fully modular" until someone crams the "EW Bonus" modules together with the "8 Midslots" modules...
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Tobin Shalim
Eclipse Industrials
Quantum Forge
|
Posted - 2010.08.28 06:30:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Zavulon Sukkot
So tell me Chesty, what DO you think is a fair price for your mission objective?
When we repossess an improperly secured mission objective, there is some intrinsic value, greater than 0 ISK which we could expect to be paid in exchange for the priveledge of you continuing your grind.
On the flip side, you can choose not to pay that, and incur the standings.
Thirdly, you could attempt to metagame the system and trick GMs into giving you another copy of the mission item, regardless of the existence of a market (which might not always be liquid, mind you) for these items.
Forthly, you could use measures, some of which have been detailed in this very thread to secure what you believe to be your property.
At no point here do I see 'griefing', at least as I understand the EULA, being engaged against a player. I don't think EVE's ever been setup to keep your mission to yourself, unlike most of the other games out there in recent years.
It seems to me that a common misconception in many high-security players in EVE is that they are entitled to exist without interaction. Sure, some people think that shouldn't be the case.
If not, why? EVE has never been about handing out entitlements, as far as I can see. Please present a case that doesn't reduce to asserting that you have the right to mission uninterrupted.
in ur deadspaces, steelin ur stuffz!
If griefing is, by definition, a deliberate and calculated act designed to disrupt gameplay by one character towards another, then stealing mission-critical loot needed to complete said mission IS griefing. It's purposefully going out of your way to ruin the experience of another player, with little to no benefit to yourself.
-----
Originally by: Gierling
Tech III is going to be "Fully modular" until someone crams the "EW Bonus" modules together with the "8 Midslots" modules...
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Jita Alt666
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Posted - 2010.08.28 06:35:00 -
[65]
Mission loot stealing is an art form. Rather than attempt to eliminate this art form, I would suggest you embrace the beauty displayed by the mission loot stealers.
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Dian Rasd
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2010.08.28 09:35:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Dian Rasd on 28/08/2010 09:36:42
Originally by: Tobin Shalim
If griefing is, by definition, a deliberate and calculated act designed to disrupt gameplay by one character towards another, then stealing mission-critical loot needed to complete said mission IS griefing. It's purposefully going out of your way to ruin the experience of another player, with little to no benefit to yourself.
Griefing is when one guy is only stealing YOUR mission loot whenever YOU are missioning.
However, this is not the case, because the Ninja looter doesn't know beforehand which player he has scanned out.
Edit:
Seriously with your definition it would be griefing if someone killed a belt ratter in lowsec cause it is disrupting his gameplay... 
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Dr Sheepbringer
Gallente
|
Posted - 2010.08.28 09:37:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Corozan Aspinall
Originally by: Tobin Shalim
This bull**** has gone too far.
Roooar!
lol.
Just salvage while you grind the missions. Simple. If not, then take chance (on meeeeeee!!!)
Stop whining. |
Brian Ballsack
|
Posted - 2010.08.28 12:04:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Jita Alt666
Mission loot stealing is an art form. Rather than attempt to eliminate this art form, I would suggest you embrace the beauty displayed by the mission loot stealers.
Whats beautiful about people wasting time to scan down loot that people dont even want anyway, its like people trying too hard.
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Captain Torgo
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Posted - 2010.08.28 15:53:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Captain Torgo on 28/08/2010 15:56:14
Well, since nobody posted it yet...
Per CCP Mitnal: Originally by: CCP Mitnal
"Our policy on this is extremely clear... Salvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing."
Per GM Faolchu : Originally by: GM Faolchu
Salvaging other peoples wrecks.... This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage.
Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up.
Per Senior GM Ytterbium : Originally by: GM Ytterbium
Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will ... and doing so is not considered as an exploit.
Per CCP Prism X : Originally by: CCP Prism X
Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing.
Per CCP Incognito : Originally by: CCP Incognito
Had a chat with some designers this evening.
Ninja salvaging is intended game play. It was always intended that the wrecks are public, the loot is private.
They do not see it as a problem if others salvage your wrecks.
(These quotes are kept handy for your convenience at Ironfleet.com.)
As for stealing mission required items, you need to deal with it yourself. If you can't then you're not fit for this universe. So there you go, Tobin. Suck it.
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Mr Kidd
|
Posted - 2010.08.28 15:54:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Mr Kidd on 28/08/2010 15:54:43
Originally by: Brian Ballsack
Originally by: Jita Alt666
Mission loot stealing is an art form. Rather than attempt to eliminate this art form, I would suggest you embrace the beauty displayed by the mission loot stealers.
Whats beautiful about people wasting time to scan down loot that people dont even want anyway, its like people trying too hard.
25mil isk for 5 minutes of work.....that's beautiful! Seriously!
I have to agree with some in this thread, mission objective looting is not griefing. It would be griefing if the same ninja looter or his buddies made a point to find that particular missioner time and time again. But, the random happenstance? Give me a break.
If it were griefing then so would wardeccing. Obviously, while you're a war target you can expect anyone at any moment to jump into your mission and disrupt your game play.
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2010.08.28 16:27:00 -
[71]
Ninja looting and the PvP which often results is why hisec systems usually have more Player on Player action than anywhere else.
If you want to live in peace, join a corp in a large 0.0 NAP.
My Warmest Regards.
Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
Pheusia
Gallente
The Initiative.
|
Posted - 2010.08.28 16:48:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Ninja looting and the PvP which often results is why hisec systems usually have more Player on Player action than anywhere else.
If you want to live in peace, join a corp in a large 0.0 NAP.
This is true. The activities that usually get labeled "griefing" are extremely rare in 0.0
Signed,
Pheusia |
Isaac Apylon
Minmatar
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
|
Posted - 2010.08.28 17:41:00 -
[73]
Why do these threads keep coming up? You'd think after years of threads that mission bears would finally get the point that ninjas are not going away, nor will they be any time soon.
The whole point of Eve is PvP and interaction with other players. No place is safe, including your mission deadspace. If you don't like it, use the pile of things CCP has given you to get around it (ignore salvage, don't shoot the ninja, buy a freaking marauder). It's not that difficult.
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Naomi Halloran
Gallente
Disciples of Night
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Posted - 2010.08.28 18:44:00 -
[74]
Had it happen to me a couple times. Could care less about most of the loot, or the salvage. Just burns me when my mission objective gets swiped. But oh well, nothing a simple petition can't solve.
---
"Ye Gods, Mardonius, what men have you brought us to fight against? Men that fight not for gold, but for glory." |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
|
Posted - 2010.08.28 19:11:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Naomi Halloran
Just burns me when my mission objective gets swiped. But oh well, nothing a simple petition can't solve.
It shouldn't solve it, though.
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Cipher Jones
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2010.08.28 19:19:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Captain Torgo
Edited by: Captain Torgo on 28/08/2010 15:56:56
Well, since nobody posted it yet...
Per CCP Mitnal: Originally by: CCP Mitnal
"Our policy on this is extremely clear... Salvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing."
Per GM Faolchu : Originally by: GM Faolchu
Salvaging other peoples wrecks.... This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage.
Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up.
Per Senior GM Ytterbium : Originally by: GM Ytterbium
Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will ... and doing so is not considered as an exploit.
Per CCP Prism X : Originally by: CCP Prism X
Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing.
Per CCP Incognito : Originally by: CCP Incognito
Had a chat with some designers this evening.
Ninja salvaging is intended game play. It was always intended that the wrecks are public, the loot is private.
They do not see it as a problem if others salvage your wrecks.
(These quotes are kept handy for your convenience at Ironfleet.com.)
As for stealing mission required items, you need to deal with it yourself. If you can't then you're not fit for this universe. Just as natural selection weeds out the weak, so too shall you be weeded out. There you go, Tobin. Suck it.
I am glad you posted this. I pointed this out before, concord does in fact place value on the wreckage. The value it enough to blow up ANY ship in the game over it. The wrecks are indeed "private."
When you say "fanboi" try to picture a fat man doing burlesque with 2 big ass fans that say CCP on one and HTFU on the other. Because that dude is me. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
|
Posted - 2010.08.28 19:21:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Cipher Jones
I am glad you posted this. I pointed this out before, concord does in fact place value on the wreckage loot cans. The value it enough to blow up ANY ship in the game over it. The wrecks cans are indeed "private."
Fix'd.
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
|
Posted - 2010.08.28 19:23:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Naomi Halloran
Just burns me when my mission objective gets swiped. But oh well, nothing a simple petition can't solve.
It shouldn't solve it, though.
It does. CCP frowns on taking mission items just to keep people from finishing the mission.
And in before someone tries to prove this wrong with CCP quotes about ninja salvaging.
My Warmest Regards.
Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
|
Posted - 2010.08.28 19:24:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Naomi Halloran
Just burns me when my mission objective gets swiped. But oh well, nothing a simple petition can't solve.
It shouldn't solve it, though.
It does. CCP frowns on taking mission items just to keep people from finishing the mission.
Do you have a source for this?
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
|
Posted - 2010.08.28 19:32:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Professor Tarantula on 28/08/2010 19:34:33
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Naomi Halloran
Just burns me when my mission objective gets swiped. But oh well, nothing a simple petition can't solve.
It shouldn't solve it, though.
It does. CCP frowns on taking mission items just to keep people from finishing the mission.
Do you have a source for this?
Nah, just making things up as i go along.
Seriously, it is reportable. Just don't have any links ready to go, and can't be bothered to hunt them down.
CCP have to draw the line somewhere with certain things. You can rob a guy of everything in the mission, kill him, mock him, but god help you if you steal his mission item.
My Warmest Regards.
Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
Cipher Jones
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2010.08.28 19:40:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Cipher Jones on 28/08/2010 19:41:40
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Cipher Jones
I am glad you posted this. I pointed this out before, concord does in fact place value on the wreckage loot cans. The value it enough to blow up ANY ship in the game over it. The wrecks cans are indeed "private."
Fix'd.
Linkage
itÆs just shooting wrecks û I can extend the timer by fifteen minutes, and I can do that over and over.
I'm sorry, corrected it for both of us. It flags you for aggression.
When you say "fanboi" try to picture a fat man doing burlesque with 2 big ass fans that say CCP on one and HTFU on the other. Because that dude is me. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
|
Posted - 2010.08.28 19:41:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
CCP frowns on taking mission items just to keep people from finishing the mission.
Do you have a source for this?
Nah, just making things up as i go along.
Thought as much, especially since there are GM quotes saying that it's A-OK to steal mission objectives (first one I found with a simple search): Originally by: GM Faolchu
If they happen to also steal the mission specific loot again this is within the rules of the game, it is a harsh circumstance but it is allowed.
It's petitionable if he was using some kind of exploit (e.g. accessing the objective container before it should be unlocked), but that's about it.
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
|
Posted - 2010.08.28 19:56:00 -
[83]
Well, i been telling that to people who did it to me for years, and they always give it back to me hurriedly. Except for the first time when i did nothing, and took a rather large standing hit for not completing an L4 storyline mission.
Forget where i heard it was something CCP doesn't like, and since they'll just let me twist in the wind here with no blue comment, i'll have to go ahead and say that it's an awfully easy way to really ruin those mission runners you all hate so much, so go ahead.
My Warmest Regards.
Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
CyberGh0st
Minmatar
Ara Veritas
|
Posted - 2010.08.28 20:06:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Originally by: Captain Torgo
Edited by: Captain Torgo on 28/08/2010 15:56:56
Well, since nobody posted it yet...
Per CCP Mitnal: Originally by: CCP Mitnal
"Our policy on this is extremely clear... Salvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing."
Per GM Faolchu : Originally by: GM Faolchu
Salvaging other peoples wrecks.... This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage.
Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up.
Per Senior GM Ytterbium : Originally by: GM Ytterbium
Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will ... and doing so is not considered as an exploit.
Per CCP Prism X : Originally by: CCP Prism X
Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing.
Per CCP Incognito : Originally by: CCP Incognito
Had a chat with some designers this evening.
Ninja salvaging is intended game play. It was always intended that the wrecks are public, the loot is private.
They do not see it as a problem if others salvage your wrecks.
(These quotes are kept handy for your convenience at Ironfleet.com.)
As for stealing mission required items, you need to deal with it yourself. If you can't then you're not fit for this universe. Just as natural selection weeds out the weak, so too shall you be weeded out. There you go, Tobin. Suck it.
I am glad you posted this. I pointed this out before, concord does in fact place value on the wreckage. The value it enough to blow up ANY ship in the game over it. The wrecks are indeed "private."
Lol, nice for you to post all these links and quotes, too bad this has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.
http://www.mmodata.net
Favorite MMO's : DAoC Pre-TOA-NF / SWG Pre-CU-NGE |
Infested Stukov
Infested U.E.D.
|
Posted - 2010.08.29 05:04:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Tobin Shalim
This bull**** has gone too far. Now the ninja'ers are going into missions, stealing the mission objective loot (Worlds Collide for an example) and then bugging out, thus causing you to either petition the GM's and lose the bonus, or cancel the mission and lose everything. Can't the devs code it so that only the original person that accepted the mission or those in fleet can open the container?
While we're at it, why not code the gates to only respond to those in fleet. Here, I'll even write it out for you:
If (player NOT in fleet)
Do not activate gate
Else
Activate gate
End
Simple, eh? So why not do it?
Which system do you mission in? 
Originally by: Milky Wimpshake
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I want to be unstoppable pvp god thanks.
-------------------------------------------
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Zorn Baderdash
|
Posted - 2010.08.29 10:42:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Zorn Baderdash on 29/08/2010 10:42:05
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Edited by: Cipher Jones on 28/08/2010 19:41:40
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Cipher Jones
I am glad you posted this. I pointed this out before, concord does in fact place value on the wreckage loot cans. The value it enough to blow up ANY ship in the game over it. The wrecks cans are indeed "private."
Fix'd.
Linkage
itÆs just shooting wrecks û I can extend the timer by fifteen minutes, and I can do that over and over.
I'm sorry, corrected it for both of us. It flags you for aggression.
Thats why since I got a Navy Mega all these Ninja's appear! I do not engage, do not talk, just pop my large wrecks...
They go away fast usually. Never had them beat me to an objective.
|
Jaqel Broadside
|
Posted - 2010.08.29 12:17:00 -
[87]
To the OP.
Well yeah CCP has decided to treat players who have paid years of subsciptions to get to play the level 4 content as trash and allowed people who pay no subscriptions access to that content.
If you are really disgusted then I suggest you file petitions and bug reports about it continuously. CCP want you to waste your real life money - why not waste some of theirs ?
The best suggestion I can come up with is to treat the game content with the respect you've been shown.
Take the standing hit for this mission and dont pay 0.01 ISK - you can get this back fairly quickly.
Don't choose a mission which has a specific item which can be stolen - thereby making all that programming effort worthless.
Destroy all wrecks whenever a ninja looter comes in to a mission - then leave the mission - thereby making this "career path" programming worthless.
Find an area where there are less looters, there are various ways to do this - thereby making the server hardware for that system worthless.
Alternatively combine with a bunch of other player corporations in high sec and war dec the corporation, best if you have lots of players involved so some can camp and others can continue playing missions. I suggest you dont do this because it involves wasting your subscription time again 
Fun options also include making smart bomb cruisers so suicide the ninjas - an alt would be best for this career path - best done when the frig involved has a cargo hold full of stolen loot  ,,, reap any dropped loot  With a bit of creative thinking I'm sure you could take this a step further
Or organise a protest. All players not doing any missions and finding something much better to do with their time might just get CCP to wise up, who knows ?
Also I suggest looking into nullsec missions instead, all problems solved then as you will be able to shoot these peeps anyway.
Good luck and fly safe 
|
Alara IonStorm
Agent-Orange
|
Posted - 2010.08.29 12:22:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Jaqel Broadside
Alternatively combine with a bunch of other player corporations in high sec and war dec the corporation, best if you have lots of players involved so some can camp and others can continue playing missions. I suggest you dont do this because it involves wasting your subscription time again
Yes Op wardec Suddenly Ninja's, everyone knows their fail PVP and will fold and collapse as soon as the dec hits.
Also make tons of safe spots to go AFK in if you need to retreat, they suck at scaning.
--
Tactical Responder who is Organized and a Leading-edge Linguist |
CyberGh0st
Minmatar
Ara Veritas
|
Posted - 2010.08.29 14:59:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Jaqel Broadside
Take the standing hit for this mission and dont pay 0.01 ISK - you can get this back fairly quickly.
That really depends on what mission you are doing.
http://www.mmodata.net
Favorite MMO's : DAoC Pre-TOA-NF / SWG Pre-CU-NGE |
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