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Dramiel is faster than all Interceptors

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Akisawa Caldari Path Of The Cursed	Posted - 2010.09.12 12:38:00 - [91] Zzzzzz... Dramiel is classified as pirate Interceptor on many occasions in the game itself. And it costs alot compared to any inty, so the price tag is well in line with it. Stop treating it like T1 frig and ask stupid questions to receive even more stupid answers. --- Improving my day by ruining yours
omgfreemoniez	Posted - 2010.09.12 13:25:00 - [92] Originally by: Akisawa And it costs alot compared to any inty, so the price tag is well in line with it. Whatever became of diminishing returns?
Moose Burger	Posted - 2010.09.12 14:11:00 - [93] If diminishing return did not exist, the dramiel would have - 350 times the HP of a rifter - 350 times the DPS of a rifter - 350 times the speed of a rifter etc etc. since its 350 times more expensive. That means it would have uh.... couple of millo HP, half a hundred K dps and also couple of hundred m/s in speed.
Draku Rykenen Gallente The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.09.12 15:38:00 - [94] Properly fit/flown Daredevil trumps Dram in a 1v1. The Dram can be a nightmare to deal with though, for sure. If you make a mistake or a bad judgement call it does go pop really fast though. I think it's a reasonable ship tbh. It's strengths require a good pilot with good tactics. It's not like it's an instaWIN ship, although if you find yourself in a frig and facing a good dram pilot it may feel that way. =) I am a mediocre pvp pilot (wish I could claim to be great, but I'm not). I buy a Dram now and then because it is so much fun to fly. The ships gifts DO make a difference for me. I am more survivable and a little more dangerous, but it doesn't turn my game in to Easy Mode. <3 Dram!
Ava Starfire Minmatar Nordanverdr Modr	Posted - 2010.09.12 16:42:00 - [95] I fly rifters. I avoid dramiels. I Also (usually) avoid caracals, and im not here *****ing about those. It isnt like its the only ship you ever see; perhaps 1 in 20 frig-class ships I see is a dram, the other 19 are T1/T2 frigs. And if i lose a rifter to one...who cares? Its a rifter. It is just one more ship to avoid as a frig pilot; I happen to despise thrashers, due to the fact that they instawtf kill me. How do i deal? By avoiding them unless I have some reason to believe I can kill it. Dirty Little Slave, reporting for duty!
OT Smithers	Posted - 2010.09.14 13:12:00 - [96] The Dram should be balanced against the Hookbill.
fuxinos Caldari Guys 0f Sarcasm	Posted - 2010.09.14 14:00:00 - [97] Edited by: fuxinos on 14/09/2010 14:00:30 Originally by: OT Smithers The Dram should be balanced against the Caldari Shuttle. Fixed. Maybe 1m3 more cargo to make up for the huge pricetag.
Ione Hunt Carebear Union	Posted - 2010.09.14 14:06:00 - [98] Buhuuuuuu...a ship that costs you over 100mil to set up properly beats your 30mil interceptor, soooooooo unfair _______________
Xpaulusx Caldari Intergalactic Syndicate Galactic Syndicate	Posted - 2010.09.14 18:53:00 - [99] Dram is fun ship to fly, especailly in a frig roam.
Umega Solis Mensa	Posted - 2010.09.14 19:34:00 - [100] A pirate ship that acts as an interceptor.. why thats, thats.. absurd! There is absolutely no logic behind that! A pirate vessel that imployes hit n run tactics with superior speed, why I never would have found that thought reasonable. CCP stated they wanted pirate ships to be a slight step ahead of T2 ships. Saying it should be equal to a T2 or navy is just being an idiot and ignoring their redesigned intentions, probably because of too much butthurt or poor skills at the helm of your own ships if you cry about it. Can't nerf pilots, so nerf the ships people can't handle instead. It still doesn't have a length'd scram/rupt of ceptors. Some, really most in good hands, AFs can win against a dram.. dram just has that gtfo ability. A daredevil can make the dram its *****. It's a pain in the ass to fit without high skill set.. it doesn't fit everything, you have to sacrifice something. Either dps, mse, full tackle, not dual-prop it.. no, it really doesn't have all of it at once. It lacks T2 resists. And reality is in gang settings, it is a good all around option to use.. but it doesn't excel above something else in anything other than speed.. without an extended rupt/scram/web. This was reality calling.. 3.95 for the first minute, 0.95 for each additional minute. Have a nice day. ---------------------------------------- -Treat the EVE Market like you're a pimp and it is your 'employee'.. freely fondle it as you wish and make it pay you for it-
YesI'mWatching Cool4Cats	Posted - 2010.09.14 20:22:00 - [101] Drams die to Ruppies by the brace.
Leon 026 Caldari Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2010.09.15 08:17:00 - [102] Are people seriously trying to claim that something is justified by PRICE? 300mil is pocket change.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.09.15 08:35:00 - [103] Originally by: Leon 026 Edited by: Leon 026 on 15/09/2010 08:31:57 Are people seriously trying to claim that something is justified by PRICE? 300mil is pocket change. 300mil isnt a justifiable figure for something above average. 2bil on the other hand, yes. Especially on a ship which has price distorted by demand.
OT Smithers	Posted - 2010.09.15 08:37:00 - [104] How it stacks up against the Daredevil -- the other Minmatar pirate frig -- is irrelevant. How does it compare to the other race's rival pirate frigates?
Korg Leaf Time Bandits. Black Cartel.	Posted - 2010.09.15 08:54:00 - [105] Daredevil is a gallente pirate frigate if we are labelling races to each of them, but the dramiel is only faster than the other pirate frigates, alot faster than them. All of the other pirate frigates either beat the dram on tank or dps, just the spped makes the dram more difficult to kill as a competent pilot will know when he should bail from a fight and the dram has the ability to do that. As a bigger ship if you die to a dram chances are you would have died to a blaster ranis or quite a few other frigates.
Exaron	Posted - 2010.09.15 08:55:00 - [106] Interceptors are not speedsters... at least not all of them... they mainly exists for tackling purposes. Tackling ceptors are still superior to dramiel as they can tackle a target with heavy neut and keep it tackled by staying outside the neut range and thus they stay alive... dramiel either dies or bails out in that kind of situations. Plus nowadays dramiels made such a great reputation that everyone is flying one. Good thing is not all of them are experienced. Dramiel needs good piloting, therefore you don't need to be afraid of half of the dramiels that are out there :) For other speedster ceptors, they are for killing T1 frigs... and dramiel, daredevil, worm, cruor are here to kill T2 frigs... same purpose basically :) All those dramiel cries and tears are basically from unexperienced pilots making wrong decisions, who haven't matured enough to admit that, they did something wrong :)
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2010.09.15 09:31:00 - [107] Originally by: Korg Leaf Daredevil is a gallente pirate frigate if we are labelling races to each of them ... Why is it that the three drones the Dramiel is carrying around isn't on the Daredevil, would make a lot more sense looking at drone progression of cruiser/BS and from a racial viewpoint as well. Daredevil is considerably more vulnerable and god-web practically screams for pimp so even with 3 lights it would not be as broken as current Dramiel. Originally by: Korg Leaf All of the other pirate frigates either beat the dram on tank or dps, just the spped makes the dram more difficult to kill as a competent pilot will know when he should bail from a fight and the dram has the ability to do that. "Just the speed" .. understatement of the year. If that was 'all' then all manner of ships/fits could do the same thing. One of the reasons the nano-age was so brutally ended was because ships were able to enter/leave combat at will with zero repercussions, non-committal engagements are bad. And no, losing to the broken Dramiel does NOT imply that one would lose to other frigates; stupidly high speed, capless weapons, tracking bonus and drones means you have no way of shutting down the Dramiel once under your guns .. you literally need to fit specifically to counter that one ship/fit when flying larger hulls. Originally by: Exaron ...Dramiel needs good piloting, therefore you don't need to be afraid of half of the dramiels that are out there :) Your weed, can I have some, must be awesome. Reason why the Dramiel is omni-present is because it takes very little skill to seem "pro". The Dramiels that are dying in droves are pilots who are still learning that the Heavy Caracal no longer exists and that TE/AC combo tracks/kills anything sub-cruiser out to 30km. Hitting orbit+F1 is not exactly rocket science, only thing 'new' pilots fail at is knowing when it is a good idea to perform that miracle of expert piloting By the way, if interceptors are to do what you seem to think they can then they will need 10km or more extra lock range, unless you presume they are always in gang with a booster.
Korg Leaf Time Bandits. Black Cartel.	Posted - 2010.09.15 09:47:00 - [108] Edited by: Korg Leaf on 15/09/2010 09:51:55 Edited by: Korg Leaf on 15/09/2010 09:51:02 Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Originally by: Korg Leaf Daredevil is a gallente pirate frigate if we are labelling races to each of them ... Why is it that the three drones the Dramiel is carrying around isn't on the Daredevil, would make a lot more sense looking at drone progression of cruiser/BS and from a racial viewpoint as well. Daredevil is considerably more vulnerable and god-web practically screams for pimp so even with 3 lights it would not be as broken as current Dramiel. Im sorry but having three light drones would not make the daredevil a more gallente frigate than oh say the hybrid bonus, fall off bonus and web bonus that means that it ruins all frigates, and putting three drones on it would make it the fotm ship quite easily as it would push 300dps in the tanked version let alone the gank version. Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Originally by: Korg Leaf All of the other pirate frigates either beat the dram on tank or dps, just the spped makes the dram more difficult to kill as a competent pilot will know when he should bail from a fight and the dram has the ability to do that. "Just the speed" .. understatement of the year. If that was 'all' then all manner of ships/fits could do the same thing. One of the reasons the nano-age was so brutally ended was because ships were able to enter/leave combat at will with zero repercussions, non-committal engagements are bad. And no, losing to the broken Dramiel does NOT imply that one would lose to other frigates; stupidly high speed, capless weapons, tracking bonus and drones means you have no way of shutting down the Dramiel once under your guns .. you literally need to fit specifically to counter that one ship/fit when flying larger hulls.... If you die to a dram, you would have died to a dual prop ranis just as easily, talking in a larger hull context Edits were to sort out the quotes
Korg Leaf Time Bandits. Black Cartel.	Posted - 2010.09.15 10:02:00 - [109] just wanted to clarify i do think the dramiel is a very powerful ship and does have teh 'full' package as far as attributes go but i just think that people have a habit of going over the top about things. As far as frigate on frigate combat goes, the dram dies to the daredevil, ishkur and jag, quite easily. It doesnt do well against most well fitted cruiser or bc and if a cruiser or bc dies to one chances are you woulod have died to most tech 2 frigates with a decent dps to speed ratio.
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2010.09.15 10:15:00 - [110] Originally by: Korg Leaf Im sorry but having three light drones would not ... I beg to differ. The fact that it does not have any drones makes it less Gallente, no other blaster boat except the fail Enyo, lacks drones .. even the lowly Incursus has a token drone. They just 'fit' better with the hybrid theme than the projectile. Originally by: Korg Leaf If you die to a dram, you would have died to a dual prop ranis just as easily, talking in a larger hull context Blaster DP Ranis is shut down hard by a neutralizer, even a small. Blaster DP Ranis is practically stationary by comparison if he has any idea of how optimal/falloff works (it is already ~30-40% slower than AB using Dramiel). Blaster DP Ranis is extremely vulnerable to webs due to the 'low' base AB speed.
Korg Leaf Time Bandits. Black Cartel.	Posted - 2010.09.15 10:30:00 - [111] well if they added drones to the daredevil it would need its blaster dps lowered as it already out dps some cruiser add 60 or so more dps for the drones and you'll be touching on bc territory if its gank fitted. Drams are also vulnerable to neuts yes there dps doesnt get shut down but they get a good deal slower, and a x5 web would then slow an all lvl 5 dram to 251m/s without implants hardly ridiculous, and most tier 2 bc's have a web fitted and a neut. The dram is a powerful frigate but its hardly game breaking, unlike its cruiser equivalent the cynabal which is much more powerful than either the other pirate cruisers or tech 2 cruisers for solo work.
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2010.09.15 11:49:00 - [112] Originally by: Korg Leaf The dram is a powerful frigate but its hardly game breaking, unlike its cruiser equivalent the cynabal which is much more powerful than either the other pirate cruisers or tech 2 cruisers for solo work. Cynabal is insane in the right hands, no doubt about it .. the big difference is that the Cruiser/BC class is downright crowded compared to the frigate class. Hacs, Recons, Logistics, BC's, Commands, T3's etc. so there is always a non-crippling counter available. Most AF's are lacking, EAS are rather gimp and Destroyers are quite frankly slow as hell considering their primary prey .. you just do not have the available counters to a ship like the Dramiel, there is a reason why people started saying "the best Dramiel counter is another Dramiel" and once that begins to hold truth you know there is something broken. Daredevil is immensely more powerful than the Dramiel but is hardly ever used, reason is very simple: You either win or lose, there is no takesy-backsy once engaged .. Dramiels can wait almost wait until they hit hull before they have to evaluate the outcome. By the by, blaster Dare is hardly ever used since small neuts are fitted on everything with a spare high .. rails and a 'cheap' faction web has much better damage projection and fight control options. Boils down to concept of balance I suppose, I see it as mainly 'within a class' while others are happy to accept a blob or bigger ship as a valid balance.
Korg Leaf Time Bandits. Black Cartel.	Posted - 2010.09.15 12:01:00 - [113] Edited by: Korg Leaf on 15/09/2010 12:04:42 Well the best counter to a dram is always a daredevil or aml caracal or a bonused drone boat with a web fitted, but most of the decent afs will either kill or force the dram to run. I know the rail daredevil is used more than the blaster daredevil, but either way adding drones to a ship with that level of damage projection, and range control is just asking to kill off frigs. Im not saying that the dramiel isnt stronger than most frigates but the way you have described it is a little overboard, they are quite difficult to pilot properly and have fairly low dps in comparision to the other major solo frigates. Personally i would say the only reason the dramiel gets used so much is the speed it has, other than that there are other frigates that do each bit better.
Eris Davion	Posted - 2010.09.15 12:19:00 - [114] Originally by: Umega A pirate ship that acts as an interceptor.. why thats, thats.. absurd! There is absolutely no logic behind that! A pirate vessel that imployes hit n run tactics with superior speed, why I never would have found that thought reasonable. CCP stated they wanted pirate ships to be a slight step ahead of T2 ships. Saying it should be equal to a T2 or navy is just being an idiot Too bad that's not what (most) people are saying. What they're saying is that it's currently a giant leap ahead of T2 ships, instead of the slight step that it should be. (But since the rest of your post is saying that 'giant leap' isn't as big as people think, I have no further comment.)
Exaron	Posted - 2010.09.15 12:19:00 - [115] Edited by: Exaron on 15/09/2010 12:20:29 Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Originally by: Exaron ...Dramiel needs good piloting, therefore you don't need to be afraid of half of the dramiels that are out there :) Your weed, can I have some, must be awesome. Reason why the Dramiel is omni-present is because it takes very little skill to seem "pro". The Dramiels that are dying in droves are pilots who are still learning that the Heavy Caracal no longer exists and that TE/AC combo tracks/kills anything sub-cruiser out to 30km. Hitting orbit+F1 is not exactly rocket science, only thing 'new' pilots fail at is knowing when it is a good idea to perform that miracle of expert piloting By the way, if interceptors are to do what you seem to think they can then they will need 10km or more extra lock range, unless you presume they are always in gang with a booster. Good piloting means making the right decisions, keeping the safe distance so bailing out would be easy, approaching at a safe angle preserving transversal as well as having a proper fit in order to make use of speed and tank advantage... etc etc... Also all of the tackling ceptors have the locking range that would allow them to make use of their point range... you can check EFT for further reference. I believe lowest targetting range is 28km of malediction which will still keep it out of the neut range which is pretty much the only thing tackling ships should worry about.
Don Pellegrino Pod Liberation Authority	Posted - 2010.09.15 13:01:00 - [116] I hate the Dramiel because about 25% (?) of the lowsec frig pvpers are in Dramiels. It is simply too versatile, its list of "can kill easily" ships is just way too long.
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2010.09.15 13:11:00 - [117] Originally by: Exaron Good piloting means making the right decisions... Very few of those listed decisions apply to Dramiel's, they are incredibly noob-friendly which is why they are so common. Enough tank to mess up approach, enough range/tracking to ignore up combat manoeuvres/transversal, enough speed to evade even when everything fails and fittings so lax that pilot has to make no sacrifices in most cases .. Dramiel's are cosmic training wheels for the PvP impaired. Tackle Interceptors has a 28-30km point AND targeting range, wander outside and you fail to do your duty by losing point. Heavy neut having a range of ~25km means that unless you are holding a solo-BS (exceedingly rare) you will either drop point or get hit by buddies. More targeting range will allow them to hold point a lot more reliably as heating disruptor gives you point range whereas targeting range can only be acquired by rigging or expending slots (thus detracting from tank/speed).
Ophelia Ursus	Posted - 2010.09.15 13:30:00 - [118] Originally by: Don Pellegrino I hate the Dramiel because about 25% (?) of the lowsec frig pvpers are in Dramiels. It is simply too versatile, its list of "can kill easily" ships is just way too long. ^ This. Signature removed.
OT Smithers	Posted - 2010.09.15 14:40:00 - [119] How does it stack up against the Worm, Hookbill, Hawk, and Harpy?
Korg Leaf Time Bandits. Black Cartel.	Posted - 2010.09.15 14:47:00 - [120] Edited by: Korg Leaf on 15/09/2010 14:49:24 tbh the hawk and hookbill generally considered sucky due to roflkets, the harpy again is due to weapon system and the worm just sucks, but then again both the other pirate frigates are roughly on equal footing with a dram in a frigate fight. So im not sure thats really a fair comparison, well maybe the worm bit. The cookie-cutter jags and ishkurs will kill the cookie-cutter dramiels unless piloted by a moron, as will the rail or blaster dd and i think whichever pirate frig that has the web and neut bonus would stand a chance with a dram as well.

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