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Introducing a new Exploration Database

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SebN Eldritch Storm	Posted - 2010.08.30 18:14:00 - [1] I would like to present to you a new website which a friend and I have been working on for a little while. Initially we planned for the site to be an ôIn Corpö website which would allow its members to record their own exploration activity. We designed it to give Corp players rankings and statistics along with an individual statistics system which would allow you to see where you have had the most success, what types of signatures you have been finding the most etc. After we did some internal testing and getting some really positive feedback we decided to take the site one step further and release it to the exploration community. We have added a few additional features which we thought would be necessary for a ôGlobalö exploration website. IMPORTANT NOTE: Player Global Rankings are entirely optional, you are able to opt in and opt out at any time via your account page. IMPORTANT NOTE #2: Although the site will work in traditional web browsers, this site was designed to work specifically within the Eve Online In Game Browser, as it pulls some data from the client so you do not have to fill in certain fields of information yourself. Just be aware that if you choose to use an external web browser some features will be disabled. So, here are just a few of the features available at the moment: Instantly find statistics for the system that you are in via the "Current System" Page Personal Statistics which include, top 5 regions, top 5 systems, breakdown of signature finds by specific type Internal Corp Statistics which include the same stats as the individual statistics along with a ranking of players within the corporation based upon how many signatures they have found and the last 5 submissions made by players within your corp. Global Corp Statistics which give a ranking by total number of signatures found by each corp, broken down by which type of signatures they have found. Global Character Rankings which again, gives a ranking by total number of signatures found by each player broken down by signature types. You are able to comprehensively search the historical data in the database specific to region/system/signature type. We also have a community forum where you can share your experiences/feedback/general chat. So, after much waiting we are finally able to open up the site to the public for Beta testing. Exploration Database It is essential that you leave us feedback via the forums, that way we will be able to resolve any issues that you experience. SebN TL:DR Essentially an ôExploration Journalö which also doubles as an ôExploration Killboardö designed to run from within the IGB. Exploration Database
Sazuka Kirr Caldari Trans-Solar Works Rooks and Kings	Posted - 2010.08.30 18:31:00 - [2] Do I have to register to see the reports?
SebN Eldritch Storm	Posted - 2010.08.30 18:41:00 - [3] Yes, we do ask our users to register to be able to view the historical data and the real time reports, by doing this it allows you to post your feedback and ideas on the forums, ultimately this will lead to an improved and more functional site for everyone. SebN Exploration Database
Sazuka Kirr Caldari Trans-Solar Works Rooks and Kings	Posted - 2010.08.30 18:52:00 - [4] EVE Survival works fine without requiring people to register and, in my opinion, it's the most successful community run information resource in EVE. I'd have no problem contributing to a site such as yours if the information was free for everyone to view, but since I need to register to simply browse the site ... well ... that puts me off. Sorry. Good luck though!
SebN Eldritch Storm	Posted - 2010.08.30 19:04:00 - [5] I understand what you are saying and fully appreciate the concern. This site however is a totally different concept to eve-survival. It gives you personal statistics based upon your activities, personalised corporation statisics, allowing you to keep a log and share corporation activity. Unfortunatly we need for the users to authenticate with the website to make sure your data is protected. SebN Exploration Database
Dwarfs NewFace	Posted - 2010.08.30 22:30:00 - [6] Edited by: Dwarfs NewFace on 30/08/2010 22:30:14 @OP, Great sounding service here, will be registered tonight after work. o/ FLY SAFE
SebN Eldritch Storm	Posted - 2010.08.31 07:02:00 - [7] Edited by: SebN on 31/08/2010 07:02:02 Thanks for the support! Please feel free to leave any suggestions either in this post or on the forum Exploration Database
SebN Eldritch Storm	Posted - 2010.08.31 16:51:00 - [8] Just a few updates to report: Added the ability to browse by signature id Added check for duplicate signature id, removing the possibility of duplicate entries. Added "All" option to the region field when browsing the database Please check the changelog for full changes. Exploration Database
DeMichael Crimson Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2010.09.01 02:34:00 - [9] I'm kinda confused here. The overall idea sounds good but I'm not sure if players want to disclose the location of systems where they get a lot of exploration sites. I know I'm not going to give up prime location's when I've searched for a long time to create 'Exploration Routes' that all have double digit amounts of exploration sites found in each system. If so, then there would be a lot of players scanning in my 'Exploration Routes' and then those systems would end up being just as dead and empty as the heavy population systems. I don't mind giving up information about the system security level and the exploration site's found. As for location, nope, sorry. I don't even like the idea of saying what Region it was found in. If locations can be kept 'confidential' then I wouldn't have a problem with sharing basic information about what was found. Just some thoughts from a 'Poor' overworked explorer.
AstarothPrime	Posted - 2010.09.01 06:07:00 - [10] Noble effort. Yet, you should make publicly accessible part because I aint used to filling out forms based on nothing. Regards I.
SebN Eldritch Storm	Posted - 2010.09.01 07:45:00 - [11] Originally by: DeMichael Crimson I'm kinda confused here. The overall idea sounds good but I'm not sure if players want to disclose the location of systems where they get a lot of exploration sites. I know I'm not going to give up prime location's when I've searched for a long time to create 'Exploration Routes' that all have double digit amounts of exploration sites found in each system. If so, then there would be a lot of players scanning in my 'Exploration Routes' and then those systems would end up being just as dead and empty as the heavy population systems. I don't mind giving up information about the system security level and the exploration site's found. As for location, nope, sorry. I don't even like the idea of saying what Region it was found in. If locations can be kept 'confidential' then I wouldn't have a problem with sharing basic information about what was found. Just some thoughts from a 'Poor' overworked explorer. Thanks for your suggestions! So your thinking along the lines of: Including the whole database into the opt in/out system, instead of just the char rankings But would not mind releasing Entries so long as location cannot be seen What is everyone elses view on this? Exploration Database
DeMichael Crimson Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2010.09.01 11:18:00 - [12] Edited by: DeMichael Crimson on 01/09/2010 11:23:45 After re-reading your post, it seems to me that it's sorta like Battle-Clinic. Personally, I don't care about how many sites someone else has found or their rank. I guess logging the Region Name where the sites are found along with the system security level is ok (no Constellation or System name). Other than that, it would no longer be exploration. I'm more interested in knowing what the ID number's of the different types of sites indicate. I like your idea of keeping track of the signature ID, hopefully that will make it easier to search for specific types of exploration sites without having to partly scan them down for the type to show in the results box. Most of the systems that I do exploration in are high security and have anywhere from 1 dozen to 2 dozen cosmic signatures with almost double the amount of cosmic anomaly's present. I didn't bother counting the Anomaly's since those are usually found most everywhere. I've set up 2 to 3 'Routes' in each major Factions area of space and each 'Route' consists of a minimum of 3 systems up to a dozen systems. Each system in the 'Route' is at most a couple of jumps away from each other. I haven't done much exploration lately since I've been busy grinding missions for access to all of the level 4 Epic Arcs. However, I still try to do a quick check on my 'Routes' whenever I'm in the area. I've kept a little mini log of all the exploration sites I've found just to get an idea of the percentage of sites available. However, I didn't think about keeping track of the signature ID or name of each site. Now that I think about it, I definitely should have done that. This is my log of Cosmic Signatures scanned within 31 weeks: 443 W-hole 151 Gravimetric 145 Magnetometric 121 Radar 51 Ladar 189 Combat (16 Expedition's) 6 Active Cosmos Complex (Static 5/10) 74 Temporary DED Deadspace Complex (3/10 and 4/10) I guess I'll have to check out your website to see just exactly how the information is logged and presented.
SebN Eldritch Storm	Posted - 2010.09.01 11:53:00 - [13] Edited by: SebN on 01/09/2010 11:53:29 How would you feel about removing the system name from the browse database results ( To prevent discovery/rush to popular systems ) This would allow users to keep their most popular routes hidden, yet still grow the database for everyone to use. Thanks Exploration Database
SebN Eldritch Storm	Posted - 2010.09.01 12:35:00 - [14] Just as another note to your last post DeMichael, the initial idea of the database was to see if a pattern would emerge between the types of site and the signature ID naming scheme. This is something that we are very interested in, I get the feeling that we are going to need a LOT of data to be submitted into the database to make any progress on this. I am going to review the privacy of the data this evening with my other developer and see what we can do. I fully understand that people would not want to give away specific intel on where they scan etc. We just need to work out what is "just enough" information to make the data useful for everyone. In terms of it being just like "BattleClinic" we will definatly make some changes to the opt-in and out system. Most likely to the extent where if you want all your data to be private you will have the ability to do so. This is all good feedback and we welcome any more comments. Remember, we designed this site for the explorers out there, so if you have a suggestion let us know and we will do our best to implement it. SebN Exploration Database
SebN Eldritch Storm	Posted - 2010.09.01 16:58:00 - [15] Update: For the time being we have removed the system name from the "Browse Database" results page for privacy reasons. This feature is currently under review pending feedback from the community. Note: You are still able to search by specific system name SebN Exploration Database
Elena Vherokia Silent Service Limited	Posted - 2010.09.01 17:04:00 - [16] There is no pattern to the site naming scheme. Apart from that names (aka xyz-123) are reset after dt.
SebN Eldritch Storm	Posted - 2010.09.01 17:50:00 - [17] Edited by: SebN on 01/09/2010 17:54:53 Originally by: Elena Vherokia There is no pattern to the site naming scheme. Apart from that names (aka xyz-123) are reset after dt. Whilst the chance to "Crack" the naming algorithm would have been nice (if the above statement is correct, I would love to see a post by a dev to confirm this) it really is secondary to the concept of the site. If we could ever get this confirmed then it would allow us additional resources to improve the Journal and Rankings aspect of the site. NOTE: We have made a few additional privacy changes over the past hour or so. You will now only appear in your corp statistics and on the global statistics pages if you have opted into the Global Ranking system. SebN Exploration Database
Elena Vherokia Silent Service Limited	Posted - 2010.09.01 17:51:00 - [18] Originally by: SebN Originally by: Elena Vherokia There is no pattern to the site naming scheme. Apart from that names (aka xyz-123) are reset after dt. Whilst the chance to "Crack" the naming algorithm would have been nice (if the above statement is correct, I would love to see a post by a dev to confirm this) it really is secondary to the concept of the site. If we could ever get this confirmed then it would allow us additional resources to improve the Journal and Rankings aspect of the site. Reading forums will show you such a dev statement. And sorry am not willing to dig it up: eve-search is all yours now
SebN Eldritch Storm	Posted - 2010.09.01 20:27:00 - [19] We have had some great feedback from many people regarding the privacy element of our website, therefore we have modified the database website to be a lot more privacy aware. Please visit the ChangeLog on our forums for more information. Remember you are able to modify your privacy settings via the Account page. SebN Exploration Database
DeMichael Crimson Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2010.09.01 21:37:00 - [20] Originally by: SebN Update: For the time being we have removed the system name from the "Browse Database" results page for privacy reasons. This feature is currently under review pending feedback from the community. Note: You are still able to search by specific system name SebN If the Constellation name as well as the System name is kept confidential, I think that would be fine. The Region name and the System Security Level should be enough information to give other Explorers an idea what to expect when in that area. I think keeping track of the type of site as well as the Signature ID along with the Region name and System Security Level should be enough information to create an excellent Database and hopefully some sort of pattern can be discovered. Now about the option to search a specific System by name, I'm not sure about that and will need to think about it a bit more. I might have the wrong impression about that option but it seems to me that someone could log in, sit in a station and do a System by System name search and within a couple of hours would have the names of all the 'Prime' Systems where multiple Exploration sites are found. I think this would be a major exploitation of the Database as well as create a rush by other Explorers to those Systems which would then soon be emptied and void of Exploration sites. Not to mention that it would also deprive the original Explorer of his 'special' Exploration Routes that was found by a lot of hard work and time invested. If possible, maybe have the System name search option only available when the Explorer is currently in the same Constellation that the System is located in, then that might work more to help keep 'Prime' locations a bit more confidential.
SebN Eldritch Storm	Posted - 2010.09.01 22:23:00 - [21] Originally by: DeMichael Crimson If the Constellation name as well as the System name is kept confidential, I think that would be fine. The Region name and the System Security Level should be enough information to give other Explorers an idea what to expect when in that area. As it stands now (since tonight due to the feedback so far) you are currently unable to see the system name via the browse page. Only the signature id, signature type, region and date. Unfortunately at the moment, there is no way to "grab" the security status of the system from the IGB. It has been on the Requested Headers page for a while now. Obviously there are other methods we could utilise to associate the security status with the system name but that would require a fairly radical redesign of the site (in terms of time, we are only 2 guys working on this). It is definatly a possibility for the future though. It would be great if you could post the suggestion on our feedback section of our Forum to help remind us. Originally by: DeMichael Crimson Now about the option to search a specific System by name, I'm not sure about that and will need to think about it a bit more. I might have the wrong impression about that option but it seems to me that someone could log in, sit in a station and do a System by System name search and within a couple of hours would have the names of all the 'Prime' Systems where multiple Exploration sites are found. I think this would be a major exploitation of the Database as well as create a rush by other Explorers to those Systems which would then soon be emptied and void of Exploration sites. Not to mention that it would also deprive the original Explorer of his 'special' Exploration Routes that was found by a lot of hard work and time invested. If possible, maybe have the System name search option only available when the Explorer is currently in the same Constellation that the System is located in, then that might work more to help keep 'Prime' locations a bit more confidential. Yup, I can see your concern there. It is a valid one, although it would be fairly time consuming for someone to exploit it, it would still be possible. (and we know how patient an EVE player can be) The other developer and I have been having a long discussion tonight regarding the System search function. One of the possibilities that we talked about was only having signatures "viewable" within the database if the person who has submitted them has decided to "Opt In" to the global ranking system. Our only concern here was that if every player decided to "opt out" it would leave the database appearing empty to users. Which would kind of negate the idea of the site. What are your thoughts on this? Appreciate the feedback. SebN Exploration Database
Ophelia Ursus	Posted - 2010.09.02 00:18:00 - [22] Sites' signature IDs are randomly-generated and thus wholly uninteresting. Sites' signal strengths when scanned with a max range deep space probe* are constant, and thus interesting. * at least, for a given set of character skills and implants, in a given shiptype with a given number of grav cap rigs, and with a given (i.e. Sisters or regular) launcher and probe. Signature removed.
DeMichael Crimson Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2010.09.02 01:33:00 - [23] Originally by: Ophelia Ursus Sites' signature IDs are randomly-generated and thus wholly uninteresting. I disagree. I don't know where that idea came from and yet everyone keeps insisting that it was stated by a Dev even though nobody has ever shown proof by linking the blog/patch notes about it. I remember a long time ago when the new Exploration Expansion and the change to the scanning system was made public, a Dev blog had mentioned something about if players learned how to track signature ID numbers of Exploration sites, they could quickly pick and complete certain types without having to tag each and every site located in the system. Originally by: Ophelia Ursus Sites' signal strengths when scanned with a max range deep space probe* are constant, and thus interesting. * at least, for a given set of character skills and implants, in a given shiptype with a given number of grav cap rigs, and with a given (i.e. Sisters or regular) launcher and probe. I disagree again. All of those variables will cause a different signal strength to show up for each player. The signal strength can't be used to accurately determine the type of exploration site. However, the signature ID number is constant and until proved otherwise, I think that's the best option for trying to track Exploration Sites. Then again, I could be wrong. Only time will tell. --------------------------------- SebN, As I said before: If possible, maybe have the System name search option only available when the Explorer is currently in the same Constellation that the System is located in, then that might work more to help keep 'Prime' locations a bit more confidential. Now about listing the System security level, Region Name, Signature ID number, type of signature and name of signature. I believe that's the important information needed to make a complete and accurate Database without giving specific coordinates of where those sites are located. I'm not a computer programmer so I won't try to tell you what is needed to be done. As a computer user, those are the things I think should be included. Anyway, keep up the good work and definitely let us know about the progress/changes of the website. I have it bookmarked in my external browser and eventually I'll log on. DMC
Siiee Recycled Heroes	Posted - 2010.09.02 04:18:00 - [24] Originally by: DeMichael Crimson I disagree again. All of those variables will cause a different signal strength to show up for each player. The signal strength can't be used to accurately determine the type of exploration site. However, the signature ID number is constant and until proved otherwise, I think that's the best option for trying to track Exploration Sites. last time I checked when combat probing a ship is assigned a different ID in every single system. I don't remember if you get a different ID for docking and undocking or not, but the IDs are certainly not consistent, and I don't see why exploration sigs would use a different mechanic than that. What is consistent is the sig strength, knowing your own scan strength you can figure out the actual base strength for the sig which does tell you alot about the signature.
DeMichael Crimson Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2010.09.02 08:39:00 - [25] Really? Then explain this. I enter one of my exploration systems that has multiple cosmic signatures and start scanning. I always first scan down the strongest signal strength showing and consistently work down to the lower signal strengths. More than once I've had Radar/Mag sites show up at the beginning and then much to my surprise the very last site with the lowest signal strength is also a Radar/Mag site that only has 1 can and was very tough to scan down.
SebN Eldritch Storm	Posted - 2010.09.02 12:13:00 - [26] Siiee, I know what you are saying regarding the signature strength, the only issue with having data like that stored in the database is that imo there are far too many variables which can affect the results, i.e. Player Skills, Ship type used, probe type used, rigs used etc etc. I shall have a think about the possibiliy of storing the data for "personal use" for each user. If we were to just analyse every sig strength result from players the data would not be of any use due to the variables (as mentioned above). DeMichael, I have been having a think about the constellation search feature, i.e. only able to search the systems within your current constellation. It would involve some database-jiggery but it is certainly possible, perhaps even to the extent where if you were to visit the browse page, the system field would be a drop down list populated with just the systems in your current constellation. The more i think about it the more i like it, we shall have a real think about this idea. Whilst we would be changing the way the db works we could also tie in the security status of each system. Anyway, thanks again for the feedback, keep it coming. SebN Exploration Database
DeMichael Crimson Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2010.09.02 21:08:00 - [27] Good to hear that. Just a few more thoughts or questions. Is this Database just for Cosmic Signatures or will the Database also include Cosmic Anomalys? If so, will there be an option to only show one or the other as well as both? DMC
SebN Eldritch Storm	Posted - 2010.09.02 22:19:00 - [28] Originally by: DeMichael Crimson Good to hear that. Just a few more thoughts or questions. Is this Database just for Cosmic Signatures or will the Database also include Cosmic Anomalys? If so, will there be an option to only show one or the other as well as both? DMC We have now added Anomaly to the available signature types, the majority of statistics tables have been updated to relfect this change, the others will follow shortly. In regards of being able to filter the results between including anomalies and everything else, you will be able to distinguish what is an anomaly and what is an "unknown" now we have made the change. Is this what you mean? Would appreciate your feedback on a new feature that we are planning. You can view the post here on our forums. SebN Exploration Database
Siiee Recycled Heroes	Posted - 2010.09.03 05:49:00 - [29] Edited by: Siiee on 03/09/2010 05:53:18 Edited by: Siiee on 03/09/2010 05:50:11 Originally by: SebN If we were to just analyse every sig strength result from players the data would not be of any use due to the variables (as mentioned above). There really aren't that many variables, and the idea is that you don't actually care about the strength that the player puts in, but just convert it to the base strength right away and store that internally. Doing that you can automatically compensate for any players skills or fit. There will be some bad data OFC because people will enter things wrong or they just don't know how to probe, but over time the noise will get overwhelmed by the good data. See how Dotlan does it for their capital navigation planner, similar idea http://evemaps.dotlan.net/jump All you would need for sig strength would be: ship bonus drop down (unbonused/5%/10%) ship skill drop down (1-5) Astrometrics Rangefinding dropdown (1-5) Sisters probes checkbox Rigs drop down (1 T1, 2 T1, 1 T2, 2 T2) Hardwiring drop down (2%,6%,10%) Virtue set checkbox That would cover 90% of cases right there, to cover all cases you'd need to expand out the virtue set to 6 check boxes and change the rigging drop downs to be flexible to fill 3 slots and mix T1 T2, but those really are edge cases. Assume deep space probes at max range for consistency, but if you really wanted to you could do just two more drop downs with probe type and range. All that data can be saved to the user account and the only thing likely to change often would be probe type and range if you do include that.
GBlock The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2010.09.03 09:28:00 - [30] o/ Seb good job :) -GBlock

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