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Prospects of a Drake specialist

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Jafa Krieg	Posted - 2010.08.30 23:32:00 - [1] So my account is now reaching 6+ months old. I'm getting fairly close to a fully set t2 pvp drake of the heavy and heavy assault variety. I have read all kinds of whines, rants, praises, and stories about how amazing the drake is... but now that i'm starting to corp hunt with pvp in mind it's starting to look like I picked the wrong ship. Don't mistake this as a LFCorp thread, please. I'm just trying to figure out what kind of pvp corp i'm eligible for without contacting all of them one by one. So just how much of a turn-off is a drake specalized pilot to the average fleet commander or pvp corp ceo? And if it's really that bad, what kind of ship should I cross train into without spending another six months training?
omgfreemoniez	Posted - 2010.08.30 23:33:00 - [2] Noone wants a missile ship in their fleet. Noone wants a (slow) shield tanked ship in their fleet. I'm afraid you're going to have to practically start from scratch. Try training Amarr instead.
Garbad theWeak	Posted - 2010.08.30 23:34:00 - [3] If your FC tells you a drake sucks, leave the fleet and then quit the corp. Why? Because he's terrible at eve.
Steve Celeste Overdogs HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.08.30 23:53:00 - [4] Get the T3 version.
Intigo Amarr Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.08.30 23:57:00 - [5] It depends entirely on the fleet layout. Drakes are great in certain fleets, but they are severely lacking in others. The issue with training for a Drake is that you lock yourself into one role and that is the heavy buffer, decent damage shield-tanked missile boat. When training for a Harbinger or a Hurricane you are still able to fly these ships in different versions (armor or shield, buffer or active, gank or tank) which can be changed around to suit almost any fleet layout. If everyone says the Drake is bad then they are simply misinformed and dumb. Originally by: omgfreemoniez Noone wants a missile ship in their fleet. Noone wants a (slow) shield tanked ship in their fleet. I'm afraid you're going to have to practically start from scratch. Try training Amarr instead. Stop trolling constantly. It's getting really sad. ___________________
Jane Calvert	Posted - 2010.08.31 00:04:00 - [6] Quite the dilema. I was taking Drakes out before to PVP constantly and was flamed. Took all the time to train to use a Hurricane, and now they are taking out only Drake fleets, there is no justice :/
JASON W0RTHING Guy Fawkes Trust Fund 31ST Reliables Division	Posted - 2010.08.31 00:41:00 - [7] I'm kind of in the same boat (lol) with you on this account. Fact is, drakes are great for what they are great for but they aren't very versatile. Plus, missiles are only very selectively used in PvP (drake, stealth bomber), so all those missile support skills don't get you very far with other races. However, this char is more industry oriented anyway, my pvp alt is pure gunnery so I don't worry about it too much. However, If I had to do it again, I would say train gunnery with any other race first than crosstrain to a drake once you have a month or so open in your skill plan. On the other hand, plenty of pvp corps use shield logi/drake gangs so you shouldn't have a tough time finding a pvp corp that can use you. However, you'll be limited in your role in that you won't be able to just change fittings if your corp likes to switch up fleet compositions. Originally by: CCP Shadow What is thy bidd -- Wait. This thread, I have an irresistible urge to lock it for "being related to neither crime nor punishment."
Sneaky Noob Cartamundi	Posted - 2010.08.31 00:49:00 - [8] In a nutshell, you're a one-trick pony, and the trick you know isn't a very good one. You're of no value in a battleship gang. You're of no value in an armor HAC gang. You're of no value in any type of armor logi gang. You're at best OKish in a LR-HAC gang. You're at best mediocre as anti-support. You're excellent bait. You're good at solo as long as you know how to fit/fight. You're last to be called target. See what I'm getting at here? For a great number of the fleet compositions you find in EVE, the Drake is simply not the best ship you can get into. Some FCs will complain that flying a Drake is the same as saying "i don't want to be called primary and die". My advice? Crosstrain other ships/races/weapons. If you want stick to Caldari ships try looking into ECM or shield logistics. OR crosstrain into another race. The Sneakiest N00b in all of EVE -------
Fat Messenger	Posted - 2010.08.31 01:16:00 - [9] I heard draketrain might recruit drake pilots!
Irae Ragwan	Posted - 2010.08.31 01:31:00 - [10] Originally by: Sneaky Noob one-trick pony That about sums it up. The drake is a stellar shield-buffer missile boat and one of a very, very few caldari ships you'll find in regular pvp use from highsec wardecers to 0.0 alliance gangs. However, as Sneaky and others said, it's just not a good fit outside those (albeit powerful) unique gang/fleet setups. There are two ways I can see you getting around this without too much round-about training and realistically neither of them is a sure-thing to get you into a large-scale pvp corp/alliance. a) Train up your ecm support skills and get into a recon/scorp as your secondary ship. Both can be done without deviating from caldari (obviously), so the jog is no more than a few weeks aside from the recon/battleship skills themselves. The upside here is you're more or less useful regardless of the fleet. The downside is, you're ecm, primary every single battle, and you'll not likely find much carry-over of these skills in the future unless you go into other recon type ships. b) Train minmatar + gunnery. Your launcher skills won't be completely wasted on -some- of their ships and you'll have plenty of shield tankers to use while you work on your armor skills afterward to round yourself out. The upside: you're on the quickest path to a number of acceptable all-around pvp ships. Sub-bs minmatar ships are (imo) the most fun and probably the most effective gankers and roamers. The downside: you still don't have access to ships that most 0.0 alliances want you to have (armor rr fleet sniper bs and hacs, armor logistics). Personally, I came late to the drake fad and i'm now looking for every opportunity to use it (aside from solo pvp where i still prefer my cane). I think if you're persistent you may well be able to find a lowsec/highsec pirate/pvp corp willing to take you on, but if you want to stack the deck as much as possible; just drop everything and start training gunnery (if not armor) skills now. I don't see any sign of the fotm armor tanks going away soon and if for some reason they do, you'll just pick up where you left off.
CoffinBait Star Frontiers Talos Coalition	Posted - 2010.08.31 02:05:00 - [11] I've seen drakes used with quite some success by both Evoke and Dead Terrorists. Only problem is , when they are fielding 100 drakes , all you can do to counter them is MORE drakes :) It makes for some really boring battles!
Goose99	Posted - 2010.08.31 02:12:00 - [12] Drake fleet against capital/BS blob twice its size. Came out roughly evenish in term isk destroyed/lost despite forces being extremely unbalanced. A conventional blob in its place would've been creamed. Drake does have its strengths, it's just a bit different and requires competent fc capable of making use of it. http://caldari.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=7410530
Jafa Krieg	Posted - 2010.08.31 02:49:00 - [13] Edited by: Jafa Krieg on 31/08/2010 02:53:50 Thanks for the opinions. About what I had expected to hear, sadly. I have read of some truly insane things done with drake fleets as you guys are saying, but I guess it's still kinda rare/overrated. So I guess the old caldari, success, pvp joke is still pretty close to the fact in terms of actually getting to pvp with a wider range of players. My remap is (fortunately) int heavy still, so i'll definitely get on those armor tanking skills asap. Irae, thanks for the detailed post and for taking the time to chat with me in-game.
Damar Rocarion	Posted - 2010.08.31 04:02:00 - [14] Originally by: Jafa Krieg Edited by: Jafa Krieg on 31/08/2010 02:53:50 Thanks for the opinions. About what I had expected to hear, sadly. I have read of some truly insane things done with drake fleets as you guys are saying, but I guess it's still kinda rare/overrated. Nah, Drake works well. People just dont want to hear it because they fear they will catch some disease from using missiles due to perceived missiles = pve illusion There is a reason i'm in draketrain corporation after all... Damar Rocarion Brigadier General
Sneaky Noob Cartamundi	Posted - 2010.08.31 06:07:00 - [15] Originally by: Damar Rocarion Originally by: Jafa Krieg Edited by: Jafa Krieg on 31/08/2010 02:53:50 Thanks for the opinions. About what I had expected to hear, sadly. I have read of some truly insane things done with drake fleets as you guys are saying, but I guess it's still kinda rare/overrated. Nah, Drake works well. People just dont want to hear it because they fear they will catch some disease from using missiles due to perceived missiles = pve illusion There is a reason i'm in draketrain corporation after all... Damar Rocarion Brigadier General He's right, a critical mass of Drakes combined with logistical support is a very nice gang. It's not the "I WIN BUTAN" but then again there is no such button in EVE. What Damar and Messenger have neglected to say is that they have a lot of kills in other ships that are not Drakes. As I've mentioned and other have reiterated, a Drake-only pilot is an effective pvp asset in some gangs but limited in many of the other fleets that are common in EVE. Crosstrain. The Sneakiest N00b in all of EVE -------
Makko Gray Gallente Nexus Aerospace Corporation The Volition Cult	Posted - 2010.08.31 06:46:00 - [16] If you can fly a t2 fit drake then I'd hope you can put together reasonable mostly t2 fit caldari frigs and cruisers. Depending on your corps fleet composition the simplest answer may be to work on some fits for these as I've never known a corp who run just battlecruiser fleets, and a fast t1 tackle/support ship will generally be more welcome in a HAC gang than a battlecruiser. If you want to stick with caldari though all is not lost, ships to look at training for are Falcon, Rook, Cerebus, Basilisk, these are all t2 cruisers and from my experience are welcome in most fleets. You could look at the t2 frigs, but personally I think best going for the t2 cruisers if you've been enjoying the drake.
Aerilis Gallente Percussive Diplomacy	Posted - 2010.08.31 06:51:00 - [17] Drake is excellent at just sitting at 0 and slugging it out with other battlecruisers. It can be fit for range, but it's kinda meh at that. Isn't capable of fitting any specialty roles, so yeah. That's about it.
Intigo Amarr Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.08.31 07:13:00 - [18] Originally by: Aerilis It can be fit for range, but it's kinda meh at that. ___________________
Bad Messenger draketrain	Posted - 2010.08.31 07:21:00 - [19] Drake is fine ship especially when your fleets are formed to work with drakes. Drake has properties that usually do not fit in fleets used, it is too slow for nano gangs, it has shield tank so it does not fit to armor rr gangs, it does not do horrible damage (eft), with shield tank it lacks possibility to fit ewar in the mid slots etc. Draketrain is truly recruiting, our fleets are planned to work with drakes, we fly fleets in way that drake gets it best properties to be used. Feel free to fill application and join draketrain, we will show you why drake is most used ship in game.
chatgris Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2010.08.31 08:13:00 - [20] Originally by: Aerilis Drake is excellent at just sitting at 0 and slugging it out with other battlecruisers. It can be fit for range, but it's kinda meh at that. Isn't capable of fitting any specialty roles, so yeah. That's about it. Gonna have to heartily disagree here! While it is an excellent BC for close range work and HAMS, a critical mass of HML drakes with pilots that know how to spread out and keep range doesn't have an equal in the BC category IMO.
Damar Rocarion	Posted - 2010.08.31 09:45:00 - [21] Originally by: Sneaky Noob What Damar and Messenger have neglected to say is that they have a lot of kills in other ships that are not Drakes. True, I like Caracal (vanilla and navy) for soloing since it's more mobile than drake as solo boat and thus most of my kills are with those. Damar Rocarion Brigadier general
Intigo Amarr Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.08.31 10:01:00 - [22] Join draketrain, they are literally amazing. ___________________
Lugalzagezi666	Posted - 2010.08.31 10:20:00 - [23] Only thing i dont like about drake is, that i cannot take "opportunity shots" at frig hulls /when they are at low transversal to me/ as i can in cane or harbi. Making some t2 frig pilots sad because they cant keep low transversal to all ships in fleet is fun /no, they still dont understand why frig hulls are so bad in fleets /. And yes, its slow - but it has great tank, decent dps and perfect damage projection - you wont be dissappointed.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2010.08.31 10:33:00 - [24] Originally by: Aerilis Drake is excellent at just sitting at 0 and slugging it out with other battlecruisers. It can be fit for range, but it's kinda meh at that. Isn't capable of fitting any specialty roles, so yeah. That's about it. Dump the shield buffer, fill up on tracking disruptors and try to keep at range.
knobber Jobbler	Posted - 2010.08.31 10:36:00 - [25] Fly your drake dude. Its a great beginner PVP ship. In allot of fleet fight bulk right now is made up of drakes. They have draw backs but so do all ships. It will keep you safe anyway. Allot of PVP corps will happily take people who fly drakes. You'll need to broaden the ships you fly anyway but the drake is a good corner stone.
Lady Ayeipsia	Posted - 2010.08.31 14:16:00 - [26] A 6 Month old account in a drake.... um yeah, you would make great bait. No seriously, this isn't an insult. Most in low sec would see your young account and think easy kill. They'll see a drake, and, well, drool even more. They'll come running, and all you need to do is have a back up fleet on the other side of the gate waiting. So honestly, you can make great bait that will suck in a lot of pirates. As for where you can go, if you have good missile skills, why not go for a stealth bomber next? It's a very good use for a heavily missile skilled character. You'll get another ship you can play with, one more way of being versitile for your group, and who knows, you could branch out from there to other things.
Thorian Baalnorn	Posted - 2010.08.31 15:07:00 - [27] Quote: Noone wants a missile ship in their fleet. Noone wants a (slow) shield tanked ship in their fleet. I'm afraid you're going to have to practically start from scratch. Try training Amarr instead. Whatever your smoking..... can i have some? Seriously except for very specific gangs drakes are usually welcomed as a cheap alternative to the most preferred ship type. And actually quite a few ships are being buffer shield tanked now a days in pvp. The drake is marginally slower than the harby with a MWD. about 45 m/s The drake is about 80 m/s slower than a myrm And about 275 m/s slower than a cane. With the exception of a cane the drake is only slightly slower than other Tier 2 BCs. HMLs and HAMs are good for general pvp. AMLs are good for killing frigs/destroyer size targets. Cruise missiles are good for bashing. A shield tanked drake can pump out 400 plus dps with an optimal of 70km and still fit a 70k plus tank. Its a little slower but speed is only practical if your running away or having to MWD to the targets. Drakes can sit at 50 and plunk missiles at anything that comes through a gate. No need to go chasing ships around a gate. BTW shield buffer tanks are used on quite a few pvp ships now, since people figured out they are superior to armor and nano went out the window. Quote: If your FC tells you a drake sucks, leave the fleet and then quit the corp. Why? Because he's terrible at eve. This. Any player that thinks a drake sucks in pvp either: A) Knows nothing about the drake B) knows nothing about pvp or C) has a bad experience with a drake and is emo boycotting it. The only reason a FC should not tell you to fly a drake is if the ship size doesnt fit in the gang. such as a t2 cruiser gang. The FC will have preferences but in most cases they rather have you in a drake then not at all. OP: The drake is a very forgiving ship to start out your pvp life in. In 2 -3 years down the road you will still probably fly the drake on occassion. I would have a bigger goal in mind than the drake. But use it as a stepping stone to more specialized ships. Its a great ship to fall back to if you get in an isk bind both for pvp and pve. Also for new pvp pilots the fact that a drake is usually lastary( One of the last called primary) usually means you get to experience more action and you will survive more encounters. Many alliances and corps will take a drake pilot. Big alliance and small ones. Find one that has the same goals in mind that you do. One that is going the same direction as you.
mrmooo Caldari Pentag Blade Care Factor	Posted - 2010.08.31 16:01:00 - [28] To the op dont be put off the Drake - it makes a fine pvp ship and you can rat with it aswell 2 invuls a lse mwd and still mid slots open for tackle/ ewar of course there are specialist fleets in which they are not welcome but tbh you wont be flying armour hacs after 6 mnths in the game bang for buck the Drake is one of the best ships out there
Hailey Wood	Posted - 2010.08.31 16:06:00 - [29] Drop down to a Caracal and adopt an anti-support role. Look at the Cerberus and try a similar role. If you're rich, look at a T3 Drake. Not saying the Drake is a bad ship, but there are other ships that require similar skill sets to the Drake that shouldn't be far out of your reach. Specialisation is awesome, but it often comes at the cost of versatility. Sadly, the Drake isn't very versatile. Don't dump it but don't focus on it too much ...
Jane Vherokior Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2010.08.31 16:18:00 - [30] Drakes rock. Anyone who says otherwise probably only knows how to shoot high-sec rats with lazors.

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