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Cearain
Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
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Posted - 2010.11.29 17:01:00 -
[151]
Originally by: Syllein Edited by: Syllein on 29/11/2010 15:35:00 Edited by: Syllein on 29/11/2010 15:32:49 Edited by: Syllein on 29/11/2010 15:17:42
Originally by: Cearain
Originally by: Syllein
As a "first step" perhaps I would be interested if Local could be changed to reduce the amount of intel it gave away? Namely remove pilot names and standing from local, leaving just a +/- one (or whatever number just jumped in/ out), and giving the ability to discover name/ standing to the D-scan.
At least in this scenario those like me who enjoy scouting/ intel gathering would be able to do so effectively while remaining "in-corp".
Well in the current system you can still scan and gather intel. Shiptypes etc. Personally I hate scouting and scanning and warping around all f-ing night. I like to actually have pvp fights.
Good for you, however I think you missed the point I was trying to make. Namely why should I be forced to use an out of corp alt to do something I'd like to be doing on my main? As it stands if my main jumps into a system with WT's in they get a lovely "heads up guys, +1 WT in local....mmm maybe it's a scout trying to get a warp in on us" and can prepare accordingly. This sucks, and is the reason I have to roll with alts..
If you see a ship on dscan you likely will not have much time to get out of scram/disruptor range before it lands. Theya re already warping to you. However if you see a blob suddenly appear in local they will need to align and then warp to you and you may have a chance of escape.
So during a fight I usually try to fly my ship as opposed to hitting the dscan and analyzing the results. Having to spam the dscan during a fight is pretty lame. Local makes it so you donÆt need to and this is good.
As far as using your alt û well people start to recognize alts and which corps are working together. I know where I roam in low sec I have some idea who is friendly to others.
In sum it seems clear that removing local will just boost blobbing and make small gang and solo pvp less viable û unless you are just ganking pve-ers. No one even seems to question that. The question is why do we want that?
I think we need mechanics that do the opposite. The mechanics need to make solo and small gang pvp more feasible and blobbing less of the answer to every issue. So removing local is going in the complete opposite direction of what ccp should do.
-Cearain
Make fw occupancy pvp instead of pve: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906 |
Cearain
Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
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Posted - 2010.11.29 17:07:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Lemmy Kravitz Edited by: Lemmy Kravitz on 29/11/2010 07:49:57 Edited by: Lemmy Kravitz on 29/11/2010 07:47:10 Solo PvP will stay the same, just require alittle more time for you to determine if you are 100% safe to gank.
A little more time? 100% safe? Please explain the process of how you go about solo pvping with no local. No local would completely kill solo pvp except for those who only want to attack pve ships.
-Cearain
Make fw occupancy pvp instead of pve: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906 |
Syllein
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Posted - 2010.11.29 17:34:00 -
[153]
Originally by: Cearain
If you see a ship on dscan you likely will not have much time to get out of scram/disruptor range before it lands. Theya re already warping to you.
Ummm what? I do this regularly, when solo I always attempt to be in "control" (for want of a better word) of the fight. Disengaging when something nasty pops up on scan is not always 100% possible, but that's what makes it interesting. Sometimes you can kill and run, sometimes you get caught and burn. Either way, it's a GF.
Originally by: Cearain So during a fight I usually try to fly my ship as opposed to hitting the dscan and analyzing the results. Having to spam the dscan during a fight is pretty lame. Local makes it so you donÆt need to and this is good.
You may consider it lame, I consider it essential. I consider Local to be lame, and vice-versa. We are unlikely to ever agree on this.
Originally by: Cearain As far as using your alt û well people start to recognize alts and which corps are working together. I know where I roam in low sec I have some idea who is friendly to others.
Because of local. If my name is not in local, I won't be recognised as a scout (unless I mess up and drop cloak). Hurrah for being able to use my main as a covert scout! But I suppose CCP's marketing dept. would not want me to be able to do this as I might just cancel my alt account(s) with the neutral scouts on it.
Originally by: Cearain In sum it seems clear that removing local will just boost blobbing and make small gang and solo pvp less viable û unless you are just ganking pve-ers. No one even seems to question that. The question is why do we want that?
I think we need mechanics that do the opposite. The mechanics need to make solo and small gang pvp more feasible and blobbing less of the answer to every issue. So removing local is going in the complete opposite direction of what ccp should do.
In all honesty, we just won't know what would happen until we try it. Personally I'd love to give it a go and see what happens.I'm not convinced it will boost blobbing as much as you think, but again you never know 'till you try.
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Mideiir
Amarr GZS-R Minmatar Fleet
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Posted - 2010.11.29 17:34:00 -
[154]
Ok, i have not read all six pages so bear with me if this has been mentioned before. My proposal:
Hi-Sec: As it is now. WH: As it is now.
Low sec: Switch local chat to constellation-wide. This means that you know who is in the general area, within 2-3 jumps. Therefore you still need to be watching D-scan, but you are not completely blind to who is about.
Null-sec: For systems in which sov is held, local will be how it is in hi-sec. (Imagine its like local has to be installed with the sov unit by the occupants of the system.) For systems where sov has not been claimed, there will be NO local, like in a WH. (The system is uninhabited and therefore truly 'wild-west' and 'outlaw-ish'.)
Any comments and further ideas would be appreciated.
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Nuts Nougat
SniggWaffe GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2010.11.29 18:04:00 -
[155]
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 Stuff
1)I agree. Wormholes work wonders as a deterrent. However, I don't think you "get" blobs.
Blobs do not form to size x, because it is a required size, they form to that size because they have x people. Would you tell anyone "no, you can't come to my roam, we have too many people"? And why would suddenly there be more people around to blob you because there's no more local. There would probably be less, because the bears would leave as you said yourself. Win/win situation if you ask me.
2) This also works for k-space. Every time I go to 0.0 I keep warping into drag bubbles, placed by locals to slow down roamers, or even jump them with the help of jump bridges. One or two long warp systems with drag bubbles in place to slow people down and your gang is stuck. If there was no local you'd probably get ambushed and killed though, because you'd have no way of telling they're coming soon enough if the systems are largish.
Also, not saying that local should just suddenly vanish, d-scan can probably use some improvements first, but it has to go. If alliances can't put a cloaky the couple gates leading to their regions to scout properly, then maybe it's a sign they have too much space for them to handle. Because really, there's not that many interregional gates in 0.0... ---
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Adunh Slavy
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Posted - 2010.11.29 18:47:00 -
[156]
Imagine no gates, no local, improved D-scan such that game play is more akin to subs and sonar, passive and active. Then we're getting close to Eve's potential.
The Real Space Initiative - V6 (Forum Link)
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ninjaholic
NME1
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Posted - 2010.11.29 18:58:00 -
[157]
Originally by: Adunh Slavy Imagine no gates, no local, improved D-scan such that game play is more akin to subs and sonar, passive and active. Then we're getting close to Eve's potential.
That would be crap. You have this option if you move into W-space. OPTION being a key word there. This would make half the game avoid low and null sec, and only benefits macro-miners, pirates and blogs.
+ Support EVE's own IN-GAME fight record tool! |
Adunh Slavy
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Posted - 2010.11.29 19:13:00 -
[158]
Originally by: ninjaholic
That would be crap. You have this option if you move into W-space. OPTION being a key word there. This would make half the game avoid low and null sec, and only benefits macro-miners, pirates and blobs.
I can see you put all of 0.5 seconds of thought into your response. Here's an idea, why don't you do your own thought experimnent, see where the problems might be and solve them? No, too hard for you? Ok then, keep with the current late 1990s game play options then.
The Real Space Initiative - V6 (Forum Link)
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Drakarin
Gallente Absentia Libertas Solus
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Posted - 2010.11.29 19:29:00 -
[159]
Originally by: Cearain
Originally by: Drakarin
Originally by: Cearain
Originally by: Drakarin It also makes literally no sense that a hardcore pirate would keep his communication signal beacon activated. Just rip it out of your ship. No pirate would ever willingly let himself be known to others the moment he enters the system.
In eve the gates not only know you entered but also whether you have an aggression timer still ticking so you can jump. So local fits in fine with how eve works.
The gates scan and keep a record of the ship. There could be distinctive markers placed on each ship like a license plate, at the molecular level, however you want to justify it. It could be placed anywhere on the ship so there'd be no way to remove it. A communication array, however, can be removed or disabled. It makes sense that gates know everything about you. It doesn't make sense that you can't disconnect from local.
Actually I think the aggression timer goes with the player not the ship. Gate keepers keep track of where you are and whether you can jump so it makes perfect sense that you canÆt disconnect from local. If you could disconnect from local you could jump right after attacking someone.
LOL I feel like a treky arguing this stuff. I care more about how the game plays than justifying mumbo jumbo of the mechaincs. But what the heck for those who care there is my argument.
Then the gate scans the Pod itself, which remains the same unless the player dies. In which case, the aggression timer is removed. So yes, it makes more sense that the gate simply scans and keeps track of the player's personal pod.
Has nothing to do with local, and how any pirate should be able to disconnect from it.
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Kabaal S'sylistha
Caldari Technomage Trilogy Comrades-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.11.29 19:43:00 -
[160]
Local has been on the Dev radar for change since at least 2008. Good thing there aren't any longstanding game issues that all but a few people support changing that CCP recently confirmed a change on to compare the situation to.
Oshi- -More Pewpew, Less QQ- |
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ninjaholic
NME1
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Posted - 2010.11.29 20:16:00 -
[161]
Originally by: Adunh Slavy blah
Why don't you accept that pretending we're in a submarine circa 1931 isn't something the rest of us want. 0.5 seconds or less is exactly the kind of depth anyone should ever put into a suggestion to turn the game in Scanner Online.
+ Support EVE's own IN-GAME fight record tool! |
Cearain
Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
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Posted - 2010.11.29 21:43:00 -
[162]
Originally by: Nuts Nougat
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 Stuff
1) And why would suddenly there be more people around to blob you because there's no more local.
Its not that there would be more blobs. But local is an essential tool to help small gangs and solo pvpers avoid them. -Cearain
Make fw occupancy pvp instead of pve: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906 |
mech res
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Posted - 2010.11.29 21:48:00 -
[163]
Edited by: mech res on 29/11/2010 21:49:01
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Cearain
Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
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Posted - 2010.11.29 21:51:00 -
[164]
Originally by: Drakarin
Originally by: Cearain
Actually I think the aggression timer goes with the player not the ship. Gate keepers keep track of where you are and whether you can jump so it makes perfect sense that you canÆt disconnect from local. If you could disconnect from local you could jump right after attacking someone.
LOL I feel like a treky arguing this stuff. I care more about how the game plays than justifying mumbo jumbo of the mechaincs. But what the heck for those who care there is my argument.
Then the gate scans the Pod itself, which remains the same unless the player dies. In which case, the aggression timer is removed. So yes, it makes more sense that the gate simply scans and keeps track of the player's personal pod.
Has nothing to do with local, and how any pirate should be able to disconnect from it.
Sure it does. This information is kept track of and is published in local. If a pirate could disconnect from it then it would be able to jump through gates without concern of aggression timers.
-Cearain
Make fw occupancy pvp instead of pve: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906 |
Adunh Slavy
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Posted - 2010.11.29 22:01:00 -
[165]
Originally by: ninjaholic
You're belh
The submarine sounds better than spawn camp PVP. But I can see from your bio that such thigns suit you. |
Cearain
Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
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Posted - 2010.11.29 22:13:00 -
[166]
Originally by: Syllein
If you see a ship on dscan you likely will not have much time to get out of scram/disruptor range before it lands. Theya re already warping to you.
Ummm what? I do this regularly, when solo I always attempt to be in "control" (for want of a better word) of the fight. Disengaging when something nasty pops up on scan is not always 100% possible, but that's what makes it interesting. Sometimes you can kill and run, sometimes you get caught and burn. Either way, it's a GF.
Not always 100% possible? Finding out after they are already mid warp on to you makes it beyond very hard to get out. Now even with local its very hard to gtfo. Until I see some sort of killboard that shows you do some solo pvp I have to think you donÆt know what you are talking about.
IÆm not saying you would never check you scanner or that this canÆt be helpful. Especially if you have a ship that does not require much as far as manual flying. But it is an extremely poor substitute for local when it comes to avoiding blobs.
Originally by: Syllein
In all honesty, we just won't know what would happen until we try it. Personally I'd love to give it a go and see what happens.I'm not convinced it will boost blobbing as much as you think, but again you never know 'till you try.
ItÆs not hard to figure out why this would be a huge boost to blobbing. ItÆs sort of like asking ôgee what will happen to the price of this item if npcs stop selling it?ö
The main tool the solo pvp has to reduce the risk of getting blobbed is local. So ôwhat will happen to solo pvp if we take away the main tool they have to mitigate getting blobbed?ö
I have asked this several times and not one person who wants to do away with local can give an answer. How would you suggest going about solo pvp if there is no local?
The only way it appears you would be able to do anything is sneaking up on pve ships. Otherwise every fight is just a complete crap shoot as to whether you will get blobbed.
Sorry this is not a mystery. Solo pvpers and small gangs benefit from local more than larger fleets.
-Cearain
Make fw occupancy pvp instead of pve: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906 |
Kabaal S'sylistha
Caldari Technomage Trilogy Comrades-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.11.29 22:25:00 -
[167]
Originally by: Cearain
Originally by: Syllein
If you see a ship on dscan you likely will not have much time to get out of scram/disruptor range before it lands. Theya re already warping to you.
Ummm what? I do this regularly, when solo I always attempt to be in "control" (for want of a better word) of the fight. Disengaging when something nasty pops up on scan is not always 100% possible, but that's what makes it interesting. Sometimes you can kill and run, sometimes you get caught and burn. Either way, it's a GF.
Not always 100% possible? Finding out after they are already mid warp on to you makes it beyond very hard to get out. Now even with local its very hard to gtfo. Until I see some sort of killboard that shows you do some solo pvp I have to think you donÆt know what you are talking about.
IÆm not saying you would never check you scanner or that this canÆt be helpful. Especially if you have a ship that does not require much as far as manual flying. But it is an extremely poor substitute for local when it comes to avoiding blobs.
Originally by: Syllein
In all honesty, we just won't know what would happen until we try it. Personally I'd love to give it a go and see what happens.I'm not convinced it will boost blobbing as much as you think, but again you never know 'till you try.
ItÆs not hard to figure out why this would be a huge boost to blobbing. ItÆs sort of like asking ôgee what will happen to the price of this item if npcs stop selling it?ö
The main tool the solo pvp has to reduce the risk of getting blobbed is local. So ôwhat will happen to solo pvp if we take away the main tool they have to mitigate getting blobbed?ö
I have asked this several times and not one person who wants to do away with local can give an answer. How would you suggest going about solo pvp if there is no local?
The only way it appears you would be able to do anything is sneaking up on pve ships. Otherwise every fight is just a complete crap shoot as to whether you will get blobbed.
Sorry this is not a mystery. Solo pvpers and small gangs benefit from local more than larger fleets.
I'm still not seeing the issue, but I don't intend to solo pvp (and win). There have been dev posts about not liking the 100% info local provides for no effort. The dev opinion in question only wanted to modify 0.0, so it's possible your lowsec browsing won't be affected when the change comes. At the same time, you might want to start developing your own strategies just in case. -More Pewpew, Less QQ- |
Infinity Ziona
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2010.11.29 23:36:00 -
[168]
Edited by: Infinity Ziona on 29/11/2010 23:37:34
Originally by: Cearain
Originally by: Drakarin
Originally by: Cearain
Actually I think the aggression timer goes with the player not the ship. Gate keepers keep track of where you are and whether you can jump so it makes perfect sense that you canÆt disconnect from local. If you could disconnect from local you could jump right after attacking someone.
LOL I feel like a treky arguing this stuff. I care more about how the game plays than justifying mumbo jumbo of the mechaincs. But what the heck for those who care there is my argument.
Then the gate scans the Pod itself, which remains the same unless the player dies. In which case, the aggression timer is removed. So yes, it makes more sense that the gate simply scans and keeps track of the player's personal pod.
Has nothing to do with local, and how any pirate should be able to disconnect from it.
Sure it does. This information is kept track of and is published in local. If a pirate could disconnect from it then it would be able to jump through gates without concern of aggression timers.
The argument that gates broadcast such and such is irrelevent. We had gates and local way before we had agression timers. Your argument would seem to support jump drive / cyno'ed ships not showing up in local since they didn't go through a gate. In reality gates have zero to do with people showing up in local, the aggression timers were put in to stop gate games and were not tied to local chat at all.
People need to understand that 0.0 was not ever meant to be safe.
Nullbears keep asking the same questions. Why should I click the scanner repeatedly to make myself 100% safe when local can do it for me. How do I stop roaming pirates killing me 100% effectively. Why should I put non-rat specific hardners on to protect myself from pirates in 0.0, I may as well go to high sec.
Holy crap.
Maybe we should propose a new solution:
A module, lets call it the NullBear 5000 Soveriegnty Module. When deployed it turns your sov space into 1.0 space but leaves all the choice rewards of 0.0, spawns alliance protecting concord, locks all your gates to nuetrals and negative sec players and increases profits by 100%.
That seems to me what you nullbears are trying to create out there. Sig ---
Quote: Originally by Oveur: High security empire space is supposed to be quite safe. ... That's the whole point of high security.
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MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.11.30 01:38:00 -
[169]
Originally by: Nuts Nougat Blobs do not form to size x, because it is a required size, they form to that size because they have x people. Would you tell anyone "no, you can't come to my roam, we have too many people"? And why would suddenly there be more people around to blob you because there's no more local. There would probably be less, because the bears would leave as you said yourself. Win/win situation if you ask me.
Not quite what I meant but I wasn't clear. What I mean is there won't be solo groups or gangs. Either there will be many players to "x" up for a mining op or there simply just won't be enough to go out in the blind. At first, sure, there will be mining and what not. But eventually after being usprised a few times they'll just adapt. And PVPers will evetually get bored of not finding any fights.
If it's done how some of the more vocal pro-nerf-local people ask (remove and not replace) it will end up harming PVP in the long run, as in, there will be less, not more.
Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today! |
Cearain
Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
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Posted - 2010.11.30 02:22:00 -
[170]
Originally by: Infinity Ziona The argument that gates broadcast such and such is irrelevent. We had gates and local way before we had agression timers. Your argument would seem to support jump drive / cyno'ed ships not showing up in local since they didn't go through a gate. In reality gates have zero to do with people showing up in local, the aggression timers were put in to stop gate games and were not tied to local chat at all...
Your confusing real life changes to the game of eve to how it makes sense in the game itself.
As for the rest you are still on the carebear versus ganker page. There are other ways to play eve. Lots, if not the vast majority, of pvpers engage other people set up to pvp.
Yes this would be a nice change for people like yourself, who choose mainly fight transport ships and pve fits. That is until it gets stupidly annoying for people to pve in this game anymore, and they leave.
Sure most pvpers would love to take down an enemy pve ship or a transport. But most pvpers are looking for more fights than the occasional soft target like that.
-Cearain
Make fw occupancy pvp instead of pve: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906 |
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Cearain
Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
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Posted - 2010.11.30 02:31:00 -
[171]
Originally by: Kabaal S'sylistha I'm still not seeing the issue, but I don't intend to solo pvp (and win). There have been dev posts about not liking the 100% info local provides for no effort. The dev opinion in question only wanted to modify 0.0, so it's possible your lowsec browsing won't be affected when the change comes. At the same time, you might want to start developing your own strategies just in case.
Whats not to see? When you solo pvp you depend on local so you are not constantly blobbed. If you take away local you take away something that solo pvpers need. Not sure how I can spell it out any more plain.
As far as local giving too much for nothing what exactly do you mean? CCP wants to demand we exchange a click to get local information? Is that what some natural law of internet spaceships requires?
Why canÆt our ships know who is in local in ôknown spaceö? Is it a click that we need to offer or isk? Do we need pay a certain sum of isk in order to have local work?
I mean this is all made up nonsense.
-Cearain
Make fw occupancy pvp instead of pve: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906 |
Kabaal S'sylistha
Caldari Technomage Trilogy Comrades-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.11.30 02:58:00 -
[172]
Your stance is that an inactive, null effort tool is necessary to do small PvP, and will promote larger fleets if removed.
I say if you want solo PvP /tryhard or suck it up and get a gang with a dedicated scout. I honestly don't care if you can't solo without it. I'd rather have a need for scouts to give people solo work to do than hide under some crazy assumption that we need to all know each other is there so we can decide if we want to duel or not.
As for promoting blobs, lol. Somehow this will encourage people to go from bringing everyone they have to...bringing everyone they have? -More Pewpew, Less QQ- |
Cearain
Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
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Posted - 2010.11.30 04:15:00 -
[173]
Originally by: Kabaal S'sylistha Your stance is that an inactive, null effort tool is necessary to....
Again what is the problem. Must we give the effort of a ôclickö or violate some internet spaceship natural law? Can't we assume our space ship computer is programmed to click whatever button is necessary to gather this information? Does Captain Kirk himself have to constantly click this button to find out this information?
How about if we pay some isk to have a crewman constanlty give us the information from local? Will that satisfy you? That way we don't have to click constantly like idiots.
You know there is a difference between making a game challenging and just making it annoying. Constantly having to click the same button fits in the latter category.
Originally by: Kabaal S'sylistha
I say if you want solo PvP /tryhard or suck it up and get a gang with a dedicated scout. I honestly don't care if you can't solo without it. I'd rather have a need for scouts to give people solo work to do than hide under some crazy assumption that we need to all know each other is there so we can decide if we want to duel or not.
As for promoting blobs, lol. Somehow this will encourage people to go from bringing everyone they have to...bringing everyone they have?
Having local doesnÆt make everything into a duel.
You say if I want solo pvp ôtryhard.ö What exactly do you mean by that? You can really offer nothing. In the end you are saying is ôyes this will obviously screw up small gang and solo pvp but you donÆt do that anyway so who cares.ö
This will help blobbers who canÆt do anything in the game other than do what they are told like ôprimary Xö and then ôprimary Yö and then ôPrimary Zö. Everyone else who enjoys small scale and solo pvp where you actually have to think a bit will take it in the A___.
Its not that those who blob have any reason not to continue blobbing now. Its just that everyone else who likes to pvp in eve without forming big blobs will have what they like to do made so tedious and difficult no one will ever do it again.
Why? Because you have this crazy notion that certain information shouldnÆt be given out unless you click a button. Good idea. WE MUST REQUIRE MORE INCESSANT CLICKING IN EVE!!!
No thanks.
-Cearain
Make fw occupancy pvp instead of pve: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906 |
Kabaal S'sylistha
Caldari Technomage Trilogy Comrades-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.11.30 04:48:00 -
[174]
I can see you're too in love with her to break up willingly. It's ok, a lot of us have been in similar positions. We know it's a toxic relationship, even if you can't see it. Other things will likely come first, but when it comes time we'll get you two apart.
Then the healing can begin.
Until then, not wasting my time repeating myself. I even deleted about ~1000 characters from this post and changed it to this to avoid futility. -More Pewpew, Less QQ- |
Vmir Gallahasen
Gallente United Mining And Distribution
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Posted - 2010.11.30 04:50:00 -
[175]
Originally by: Nuts Nougat Blobs do not form to size x, because it is a required size, they form to that size because they have x people. Would you tell anyone "no, you can't come to my roam, we have too many people"?
But many of those x people are only there because they know there are y hostiles, and x > y. What do you think will happen when the nullbears (I like this term by the way) can't be entirely sure of what exactly the enemy has? x will get smaller because victory is no longer a nearly guaranteed thing
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a newbie
Caldari Trust Doesn't Rust Supremacy.
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Posted - 2010.11.30 05:50:00 -
[176]
Ok I am probably restating a few opinions here but if that is the case, it is done so in a matter of consenting agreement...
I think Local should not be removed, but rather the only time an identity is transmitted is when the person broadcasts across local channel. After all, if we can communicate across the EVE Galaxy, then we should be able to talk in a public manner. If you don't want to listen or watch local, then as you would on a real radio or satellite communications, you change the frequency or shut off the channel comms(close tab). If you get attacked because your "system" is off or on another channel, well thats your fault and missing transmissions happens at a regular occurrence in real life.
This would allow both local chatter, and force people to still use the system scanners. It adds to it the element that a pirate can sneak in and hear the unencrypted chatter of some local pilots talking about their day, ex-wifes, and repair problems of the warp drives. At the same time, it simply makes the game that much more hardcore that separates EVE Online from so many other "paper-rocks-scissors" gameplay.
Imagine the following setting:
Quote: The sun is making a futile effort to expose the cloaked hull of your falcon. Being an advanced scout for your Black Ops fleet, you have been in system for the past few hours with your Sister Probes redeployed every little while. For once you are a more valuable asset then an interceptor that jumps in and does a gate crash to get a local count/gate visual. While waiting in position, you can detect a fleet of hostiles conducting operations as they are passing through system.
You notice one of these signatures warps to a destination separate from the others, likely an ammo can or safespot, judging by his off-gravity location. Seeing this as an opportunity, you immediately communicate your situation and get the order to engage, you lock in and warp to the target. Immediately upon landing you bracket up the prey and ECM/Disrupt him blind. All he can do is call for help. You anxiously hover your finger over that keybind, counting down from 5 and activate the covert cyno beacon. Already too late for the victim to warn those accelerating into your trap. Your fleet emerges through the Black Ops cyno primed and ready for the fleet now landing out of warp and into a situation much more grim than they could understand from the frantic victim.
Now, granted I could have written it more like a short story but this was more intended to convey the perspective of the pilot. Also please note the fact a falcon would have a disruptor attached is something of a habit of all TDR Pilots and is a core component of our Guerrilla Warfare Tactics.
I completely support the notion of removing the instant pilot information and replace it instead with a no-cache version of local chatter. As I said above, those displayed in local are actively and publicly broadcasting open comms. Those who don't want to listen or want to remain hidden, you can either "tune in"/listen only, or chose active broadcast and notify both chatting and/or listening that you are present.
Examples: Local ON Listen Only ON Broadcast OFF --------------- You can read local and broad-casted identities but no one can see you in local channel and you cannot transmit.
Local ON Listen Only OFF Broadcast OFF --------------- You can read and transmit in local. Your identity is broad-casted to any and all viewing the channel.
Local OFF --------------- You can neither read, transmit, or view broad-casting pilots as the tab is closed.
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Solid Prefekt
Haven Front
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Posted - 2010.11.30 06:12:00 -
[177]
Edited by: Solid Prefekt on 30/11/2010 06:13:13
Originally by: Cearain
The main tool the solo pvp has to reduce the risk of getting blobbed is local. So ôwhat will happen to solo pvp if we take away the main tool they have to mitigate getting blobbed?ö
I have asked this several times and not one person who wants to do away with local can give an answer. How would you suggest going about solo pvp if there is no local?
First off, solo pvp is like 1% of gameplay these days. Second, most solo PVP'ers will give away the advantage of local chat in a heartbeat if no one else had it. A solo pvp'er can easily survive without it using their scan and off gate bookmarks.
I think getting rid of local is a great idea. It would completely change the way nullbears grind for isk and provide another level of uncertainty to everyone who engages in battle. This also removes the afk cloaker fear. I personally hate afk cloaking as it wastes hours of time and when you get back it is not like nullbears are conveniently their for you to gank the moment you get back to your computer. The reality is you waste a lot of time cloaking and waiting for a good opportunity to strike. There are a lot better ways to get kills.
It will never happen though as people can make so much isk with barely any interruptions now in nullsec by creatively using the mechanics of the game (bubbles/local/cyno jammers) and trying to take that away would create tears that would rival the pacific ocean.
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Kabaal S'sylistha
Caldari Technomage Trilogy Comrades-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.11.30 06:21:00 -
[178]
Edited by: Kabaal S''sylistha on 30/11/2010 06:21:55 TL;DR @ newbie
I just glanced over but I got the feeling you think people are meaning "Remove the chat channel completely." The idea has been hounded on so much most people who are in the argument (or at least I do) subsitute "remove local" with "remove the information gathering capability of local chat". Most sane proposed solutions are the delayed chat function, like you said (I think).
Edited cuz the TL;DR direction wasn't obvious. -More Pewpew, Less QQ- |
a newbie
Caldari Trust Doesn't Rust Supremacy.
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Posted - 2010.11.30 07:02:00 -
[179]
Not so much a delay as the simple fact you treat local as any other non-forced channel. You are only reading it if you joined the channel. As far as the not being visible I was referring to something so common it's not often related too. When you listen to a radio, no one but those who are in the room know that unless you inform others or broadcast it.
For instance, You, me, and another pilot are all in local. You and the other pilot are having a discussion, but I remain hidden because I am not "broadcasting" my joining the conversation. Instead, I am in my ship, silently listening to the waves of communications relays beaming back and forth between you guys. Same effect as if I had a Passive Targeter installed on my ship. You wouldn't know I was there unless you actively scanned or I openly connected (and therefore am broadcasting a signal).
That is what I haven't seen because as you said most people speak of a simple delayed listing. That still gives the players effortless intel and only delays the problem and the rate we get this hamster bottle of information.
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Infinity Ziona
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2010.11.30 07:08:00 -
[180]
Delayed in EvE is simply not appearing in a channel till you talk. So same thing your both talking about. Sig ---
Quote: Originally by Oveur: High security empire space is supposed to be quite safe. ... That's the whole point of high security.
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