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Wumpy
   |
Posted - 2004.12.30 16:38:00 -
[1]
There messing up the game 
There fire power @ most ranges is ridicilous. |
Wumpy
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Posted - 2004.12.30 16:38:00 -
[2]
There messing up the game
There fire power @ most ranges is ridicilous. |
Bad'Boy
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Posted - 2004.12.30 16:43:00 -
[3]
lol
killed by one?
B.A.D.B.O.Y.: Biomechanical Android Designed for Battle and Online Yelling
"Bad Boys,Bad Boys, what you gonna do, what you gonna do when WE come for yoU"
|
Bad'Boy
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Posted - 2004.12.30 16:43:00 -
[4]
lol
killed by one?
B.A.D.B.O.Y.: Biomechanical Android Designed for Battle and Online Yelling
"Bad Boys,Bad Boys, what you gonna do, what you gonna do when WE come for yoU"
|
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.12.30 16:56:00 -
[5]
Try some white noise ecm/dampeners.
It's mega-pulses exceptionally range versatility that makes it so lethal.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Joshua Calvert
|
Posted - 2004.12.30 16:56:00 -
[6]
Try some white noise ecm/dampeners.
It's mega-pulses exceptionally range versatility that makes it so lethal.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.12.30 16:57:00 -
[7]
MEGA PULSE 4 TEH WIN 
------
ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.12.30 16:57:00 -
[8]
MEGA PULSE 4 TEH WIN
------
ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2004.12.30 17:13:00 -
[9]
The disussion is about gankageddons thankyouvermuch. Gankageddons sacrifice any defense for their offense. An Ibis can kill them. As for pulse lasers...Cut their optimal in half, increase their tracking slightly and be done with it.
/Elve
New Video out! Watch me!
|
Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2004.12.30 17:13:00 -
[10]
The disussion is about gankageddons thankyouvermuch. Gankageddons sacrifice any defense for their offense. An Ibis can kill them. As for pulse lasers...Cut their optimal in half, increase their tracking slightly and be done with it.
/Elve
New Video out! Watch me!
|
Joshua Calvert
|
Posted - 2004.12.30 17:14:00 -
[11]
 Originally by: Elve Sorrow
The disussion is about gankageddons thankyouvermuch. Gankageddons sacrifice any defense for their offense. An Ibis can kill them. As for pulse lasers...Cut their optimal in half, increase their tracking slightly and be done with it.
I think the natural recharge of the Arma's shields would somewhat overcome the devestating power of an Ibis 
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Joshua Calvert
|
Posted - 2004.12.30 17:14:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
The disussion is about gankageddons thankyouvermuch. Gankageddons sacrifice any defense for their offense. An Ibis can kill them. As for pulse lasers...Cut their optimal in half, increase their tracking slightly and be done with it.
I think the natural recharge of the Arma's shields would somewhat overcome the devestating power of an Ibis
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2004.12.30 17:15:00 -
[13]
Possibly...Ill test that once i get the time.
/Elve
New Video out! Watch me!
|
Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2004.12.30 17:15:00 -
[14]
Possibly...Ill test that once i get the time.
/Elve
New Video out! Watch me!
|
Blockoindi
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Posted - 2004.12.30 17:18:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Wumpy
There messing up the game
There fire power @ most ranges is ridicilous.
There easy to counter, and easy to kill.
Adapt |
Blockoindi
|
Posted - 2004.12.30 17:18:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Wumpy
There messing up the game
There fire power @ most ranges is ridicilous.
There easy to counter, and easy to kill.
Adapt |
Porro
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Posted - 2004.12.30 17:23:00 -
[17]
Well, you have to admit that no other race has a gun like the mega pulse its as versatile as a swiss army knife.
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Porro
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Posted - 2004.12.30 17:23:00 -
[18]
Well, you have to admit that no other race has a gun like the mega pulse its as versatile as a swiss army knife.
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Lameth
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Posted - 2004.12.30 17:27:00 -
[19]
NO, boost them, make them better!
My apoc setup made for ratting Sanchas can kill a gankageddon too fast.
You have to boost them! Who ever heard of only thermal/em damage?
How will you kill everything with that? What a lame ship!
Nerf the other ships so the poor unguided Gankageddon pilots can get a kill mail too!
"reallife.dll not found"
http://www.killboard.net/signature/<Lameth>.jpg |
Lameth
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Posted - 2004.12.30 17:27:00 -
[20]
NO, boost them, make them better!
My apoc setup made for ratting Sanchas can kill a gankageddon too fast.
You have to boost them! Who ever heard of only thermal/em damage?
How will you kill everything with that? What a lame ship!
Nerf the other ships so the poor unguided Gankageddon pilots can get a kill mail too!
"reallife.dll not found"
http://www.killboard.net/signature/<Lameth>.jpg |
Lomithrandra
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Posted - 2004.12.30 17:33:00 -
[21]
I like to think that in EVE, every setup has a counter setup.
The gankageddon is no exception.
They can be tanked, and they die very fast.
They can be jammed, and they die very fast.
They can be dampened, and they die very fast.
To an unprepared ship, they are very effective, but to a ship with either EW, or a suitable tank, they fall quickly.
I believe with the upcoming increased hitpoints, the leathality of the gankageddon will be reduced, as it has to chew through more tanked hitpoints, whilst still having nothing to defend itself with.
_____________________________
Lomithrandra
Lead Forum Moderator
[ Forum Rules ] |
Lomithrandra
|
Posted - 2004.12.30 17:33:00 -
[22]
I like to think that in EVE, every setup has a counter setup.
The gankageddon is no exception.
They can be tanked, and they die very fast.
They can be jammed, and they die very fast.
They can be dampened, and they die very fast.
To an unprepared ship, they are very effective, but to a ship with either EW, or a suitable tank, they fall quickly.
I believe with the upcoming increased hitpoints, the leathality of the gankageddon will be reduced, as it has to chew through more tanked hitpoints, whilst still having nothing to defend itself with.
_____________________________
Lomithrandra
Lead Forum Moderator
[ Forum Rules ] |
Joshua Calvert
|
Posted - 2004.12.30 17:38:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Lomithrandra
I like to think that in EVE, every setup has a counter setup.
The gankageddon is no exception.
They can be tanked, and they die very fast.
They can be jammed, and they die very fast.
They can be dampened, and they die very fast.
To an unprepared ship, they are very effective, but to a ship with either EW, or a suitable tank, they fall quickly.
I believe with the upcoming increased hitpoints, the leathality of the gankageddon will be reduced, as it has to chew through more tanked hitpoints, whilst still having nothing to defend itself with.
I don't really understand the final part - HP's are, on average, going to icnrease by the same amount on all ships while damage output is not.
Surely this means that a gankageddons lethality is not reduced but merely delayed.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Joshua Calvert
|
Posted - 2004.12.30 17:38:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Lomithrandra
I like to think that in EVE, every setup has a counter setup.
The gankageddon is no exception.
They can be tanked, and they die very fast.
They can be jammed, and they die very fast.
They can be dampened, and they die very fast.
To an unprepared ship, they are very effective, but to a ship with either EW, or a suitable tank, they fall quickly.
I believe with the upcoming increased hitpoints, the leathality of the gankageddon will be reduced, as it has to chew through more tanked hitpoints, whilst still having nothing to defend itself with.
I don't really understand the final part - HP's are, on average, going to icnrease by the same amount on all ships while damage output is not.
Surely this means that a gankageddons lethality is not reduced but merely delayed.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Wrangler
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Posted - 2004.12.30 17:41:00 -
[25]
With more HP it will take longer to eat through the shield/armor/whatever, and the gankageddon will (hopefully) run out of cap before that happens.
[Read the Rules!] - [Email the Moderators] |
Wrangler
|
Posted - 2004.12.30 17:41:00 -
[26]
With more HP it will take longer to eat through the shield/armor/whatever, and the gankageddon will (hopefully) run out of cap before that happens.
[Read the Rules!] - [Email the Moderators] |
Joshua Calvert
|
Posted - 2004.12.30 17:42:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Wrangler
With more HP it will take longer to eat through the shield/armor/whatever, and the gankageddon will (hopefully) run out of cap before that happens.
Ahhh, cap.
I didn't bring that into the equation.
Hmmmmmm. Good point Lomithranda.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Joshua Calvert
|
Posted - 2004.12.30 17:42:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Wrangler
With more HP it will take longer to eat through the shield/armor/whatever, and the gankageddon will (hopefully) run out of cap before that happens.
Ahhh, cap.
I didn't bring that into the equation.
Hmmmmmm. Good point Lomithranda.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Xelios
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Posted - 2004.12.30 17:42:00 -
[29]
Know what else is ridiculous? Their non-existance defense and non-existant defense against ECM.
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Xelios
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Posted - 2004.12.30 17:42:00 -
[30]
Know what else is ridiculous? Their non-existance defense and non-existant defense against ECM.
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Kalast Raven
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Posted - 2004.12.30 17:54:00 -
[31]
I'd say decrease range on pulse lasers by about 30%, and decrease the amarr ships bonus for cap usage reduction of the lasers. don't reduce pulse laser damage though. That would open up more usage of beam lasers, and also people would still use pulse, which would still be effective but not as versatile.
-------
K. Raven
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Kalast Raven
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Posted - 2004.12.30 17:54:00 -
[32]
I'd say decrease range on pulse lasers by about 30%, and decrease the amarr ships bonus for cap usage reduction of the lasers. don't reduce pulse laser damage though. That would open up more usage of beam lasers, and also people would still use pulse, which would still be effective but not as versatile.
-------
K. Raven
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Killer Gandry
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Posted - 2004.12.30 17:57:00 -
[33]
Why do people start to ask for nerfing a certain ship when they get whooped by one?
I read NERF the RAVEN
NERF MISSILES
NERF TACHYONS, nerf this, nerf that.
only seldom do I read something like,"Hee guys I was in blabla ship and got to fight a blabla ship, I couldnt fight it cause X was tanked very high, any suggestions?"
My guess is you will get atleast 5 different setups handed on a plate to take out another certain setup.
Adapt, change setup, change tactics.
Better to try and fail, then to fail due to not trying |
Killer Gandry
|
Posted - 2004.12.30 17:57:00 -
[34]
Why do people start to ask for nerfing a certain ship when they get whooped by one?
I read NERF the RAVEN
NERF MISSILES
NERF TACHYONS, nerf this, nerf that.
only seldom do I read something like,"Hee guys I was in blabla ship and got to fight a blabla ship, I couldnt fight it cause X was tanked very high, any suggestions?"
My guess is you will get atleast 5 different setups handed on a plate to take out another certain setup.
Adapt, change setup, change tactics.
Better to try and fail, then to fail due to not trying |
Wrangler
|
Posted - 2004.12.30 18:04:00 -
[35]
Did you just call me "Lomithrandra"?? 
[Read the Rules!] - [Email the Moderators] |
Wrangler
|
Posted - 2004.12.30 18:04:00 -
[36]
Did you just call me "Lomithrandra"??
[Read the Rules!] - [Email the Moderators] |
Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2004.12.30 18:06:00 -
[37]
Well, the Armageddon just needs it bonus changed. 5% ROF and 5% tracking. (Id suggest 5% damage but id get so flamed its silly.) Then Pulse lasers need a 10km optimal without skills, and their tracking upped a bit. Hell, maybe give it the same bonus the Thorax gets, 5% less MWD cap thing. Make it a proper Megathron-competitor.
Oh and Josh, as for the Ibis n natural recharge. Ive tried it, 2 Ibis's can break its natural recharge. One cant get it below 35% shield.
/Elve
New Video out! Watch me!
|
Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2004.12.30 18:06:00 -
[38]
Well, the Armageddon just needs it bonus changed. 5% ROF and 5% tracking. (Id suggest 5% damage but id get so flamed its silly.) Then Pulse lasers need a 10km optimal without skills, and their tracking upped a bit. Hell, maybe give it the same bonus the Thorax gets, 5% less MWD cap thing. Make it a proper Megathron-competitor.
Oh and Josh, as for the Ibis n natural recharge. Ive tried it, 2 Ibis's can break its natural recharge. One cant get it below 35% shield.
/Elve
New Video out! Watch me!
|
JoeSomebody
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Posted - 2004.12.30 18:09:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Lameth
You have to boost them! Who ever heard of only thermal/em damage?
*cough* Caldari *cough*
____
When flying by Concord Customs Commander's Dominix I distinctly heard him saying "... world domination..." |
JoeSomebody
|
Posted - 2004.12.30 18:09:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Lameth
You have to boost them! Who ever heard of only thermal/em damage?
*cough* Caldari *cough*
____
When flying by Concord Customs Commander's Dominix I distinctly heard him saying "... world domination..." |
Seth Killbain
|
Posted - 2004.12.30 18:11:00 -
[41]
Nerf missiles,
nerf Ravens,
Nerf Oversized Abs,
Merf
Nerf
Your a Nerfhearder, learn to play 
Only kiddin, like any ship, a Gankageddon setup can be beat, figure it out.
Ill tell you what, when all this nerfage is done because people cant get the hang of the game, an apoc WONT be able an ibis hehe, never mind the other way.
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Seth Killbain
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Posted - 2004.12.30 18:11:00 -
[42]
Nerf missiles,
nerf Ravens,
Nerf Oversized Abs,
Merf
Nerf
Your a Nerfhearder, learn to play
Only kiddin, like any ship, a Gankageddon setup can be beat, figure it out.
Ill tell you what, when all this nerfage is done because people cant get the hang of the game, an apoc WONT be able an ibis hehe, never mind the other way.
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Flariaf
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Posted - 2004.12.30 18:58:00 -
[43]
Buff the megathron!
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Flariaf
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Posted - 2004.12.30 18:58:00 -
[44]
Buff the megathron!
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TMX
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Posted - 2004.12.30 18:58:00 -
[45]
They suck imho to power full at to many diffrent ranges!
-------------------------------------------
Live fast die young, clone and take revenge! |
TMX
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Posted - 2004.12.30 18:58:00 -
[46]
They suck imho to power full at to many diffrent ranges!
-------------------------------------------
Live fast die young, clone and take revenge! |
Capt Brent
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Posted - 2004.12.30 19:14:00 -
[47]
The Geddon is a awsome ship. People say learn to adapt and play the game that is not always so easily done flying certain BS. Take the Mega for example this is a ship that lives on a knifedge and really struggles to be an effective PVP ship. With the cap and grid problems of the Mega plus, Hybrids limiting you to a very restrictive form of attack. (ranged or close)
Looking at Caldari and Amarr BS they really do have the advantage with there high damage output plus flexible range make them more adaptable than Gallente ships. Fitting a decent setup is also much easier to do.
You dont have to Nerf ships just give them all a decent chance to counter other BS if used in the nature they were designed for.
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Capt Brent
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Posted - 2004.12.30 19:14:00 -
[48]
The Geddon is a awsome ship. People say learn to adapt and play the game that is not always so easily done flying certain BS. Take the Mega for example this is a ship that lives on a knifedge and really struggles to be an effective PVP ship. With the cap and grid problems of the Mega plus, Hybrids limiting you to a very restrictive form of attack. (ranged or close)
Looking at Caldari and Amarr BS they really do have the advantage with there high damage output plus flexible range make them more adaptable than Gallente ships. Fitting a decent setup is also much easier to do.
You dont have to Nerf ships just give them all a decent chance to counter other BS if used in the nature they were designed for.
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Icarus100
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Posted - 2004.12.30 20:12:00 -
[49]
I can kill a gankageddon in my dominix...
Never underestimate something that has 5 medslots
-
My hair is ugly.. |
Icarus100
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Posted - 2004.12.30 20:12:00 -
[50]
I can kill a gankageddon in my dominix...
Never underestimate something that has 5 medslots
-
My hair is ugly.. |
Dave10
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Posted - 2004.12.30 21:15:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Kalast Raven
I'd say decrease range on pulse lasers by about 30%, and decrease the amarr ships bonus for cap usage reduction of the lasers. don't reduce pulse laser damage though. That would open up more usage of beam lasers, and also people would still use pulse, which would still be effective but not as versatile.
you obviously fail to see that in normal use (non-gankageddon), mega pulse lasers are actually quite poo. bad range, and the firepower isnt so great (i have large laser 4 and SS 4). Oh, and the cap use is bad enough as it is 
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Dave10
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Posted - 2004.12.30 21:15:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Kalast Raven
I'd say decrease range on pulse lasers by about 30%, and decrease the amarr ships bonus for cap usage reduction of the lasers. don't reduce pulse laser damage though. That would open up more usage of beam lasers, and also people would still use pulse, which would still be effective but not as versatile.
you obviously fail to see that in normal use (non-gankageddon), mega pulse lasers are actually quite poo. bad range, and the firepower isnt so great (i have large laser 4 and SS 4). Oh, and the cap use is bad enough as it is
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Gaiam
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Posted - 2004.12.30 21:32:00 -
[53]
thanks to the forum mods for deleting my post about BROKEN pulse laser modifier and not caring about it.
the tech 1 pulse laser should have a 2.1x damage mod on it, anything higher than 2.4x is just frigin stupid.
why would anyone run a beam? dont try and tell me for range, i wasnt born yesterday.
the problem isnt with the armageddon, its with pulse lasers, as has been repeated over and over by many knowledgable players.
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Gaiam
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Posted - 2004.12.30 21:32:00 -
[54]
thanks to the forum mods for deleting my post about BROKEN pulse laser modifier and not caring about it.
the tech 1 pulse laser should have a 2.1x damage mod on it, anything higher than 2.4x is just frigin stupid.
why would anyone run a beam? dont try and tell me for range, i wasnt born yesterday.
the problem isnt with the armageddon, its with pulse lasers, as has been repeated over and over by many knowledgable players.
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Kalast Raven
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Posted - 2004.12.30 22:11:00 -
[55]
their range is hardly poor, for the short-range amarr BS weapon. Even if they are reduced by 50% range, their still the longest ranged of the short range weaponry, in any race's inventory.
-------
K. Raven
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Kalast Raven
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Posted - 2004.12.30 22:11:00 -
[56]
their range is hardly poor, for the short-range amarr BS weapon. Even if they are reduced by 50% range, their still the longest ranged of the short range weaponry, in any race's inventory.
-------
K. Raven
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RollinDutchMasters
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Posted - 2004.12.30 22:44:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Dave10
You obviously fail to see that in normal use (non-gankageddon), mega pulse lasers are actually quite poo. bad range, and the firepower isnt so great (i have large laser 4 and SS 4). Oh, and the cap use is bad enough as it is
Are you high?
They have a normalized damage mod that is roughly 10% less then Ion Blasters. They use almost the exact same cap as Ion Blasters (less, with amarr BS 5). They have the same falloff as Ion Blasters, and more then 5 times the optimal range. They have tracking which is better then anything but blasters and autocannon. Hell, they have almost double the tracking of Dual 250mms, which have a similar range (and half the damage). They can be used with radio crystals to good effect at ranges of 50k+.
You must be insane if you think they arent good without damage mods.
Originally by: Sochin
CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
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RollinDutchMasters
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Posted - 2004.12.30 22:44:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Dave10
You obviously fail to see that in normal use (non-gankageddon), mega pulse lasers are actually quite poo. bad range, and the firepower isnt so great (i have large laser 4 and SS 4). Oh, and the cap use is bad enough as it is
Are you high?
They have a normalized damage mod that is roughly 10% less then Ion Blasters. They use almost the exact same cap as Ion Blasters (less, with amarr BS 5). They have the same falloff as Ion Blasters, and more then 5 times the optimal range. They have tracking which is better then anything but blasters and autocannon. Hell, they have almost double the tracking of Dual 250mms, which have a similar range (and half the damage). They can be used with radio crystals to good effect at ranges of 50k+.
You must be insane if you think they arent good without damage mods.
Originally by: Sochin
CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
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Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2004.12.30 22:48:00 -
[59]
Like it or not, 8 Mega Pulse will simply not kill any BS if its somewhat tanked. 7 Ions manage that QUITE EASILY. And please mention Ions have a lower ROF. Comparing is fine, but do it right please.
/Elve
New Video out! Watch me!
|
Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2004.12.30 22:48:00 -
[60]
Like it or not, 8 Mega Pulse will simply not kill any BS if its somewhat tanked. 7 Ions manage that QUITE EASILY. And please mention Ions have a lower ROF. Comparing is fine, but do it right please.
/Elve
New Video out! Watch me!
|
RollinDutchMasters
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Posted - 2004.12.30 22:50:00 -
[61]
Edited by: RollinDutchMasters on 30/12/2004 22:52:47
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
Like it or not, 8 Mega Pulse will simply not kill any BS if its somewhat tanked. 7 Ions manage that QUITE EASILY. And please mention Ions have a lower ROF. Comparing is fine, but do it right please.
They have a normalized damage mod that is roughly 10% less then Ion Blasters.
See the bold word there? Thats the word that says RoF was factored in. If you ignore RoF (which is silly) the mega pulse has a higher damage mod.
The reason that you cant kill a battleship with 8 mega pulse on an apoc is no damage bonus. An arma has a 5% RoF bonus which is basically equivalent to the 5% damage boost of a mega/domi (although it does increase the cap use of the weapon).
Originally by: Sochin
CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
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RollinDutchMasters
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Posted - 2004.12.30 22:50:00 -
[62]
Edited by: RollinDutchMasters on 30/12/2004 22:52:47
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
Like it or not, 8 Mega Pulse will simply not kill any BS if its somewhat tanked. 7 Ions manage that QUITE EASILY. And please mention Ions have a lower ROF. Comparing is fine, but do it right please.
They have a normalized damage mod that is roughly 10% less then Ion Blasters.
See the bold word there? Thats the word that says RoF was factored in. If you ignore RoF (which is silly) the mega pulse has a higher damage mod.
The reason that you cant kill a battleship with 8 mega pulse on an apoc is no damage bonus. An arma has a 5% RoF bonus which is basically equivalent to the 5% damage boost of a mega/domi (although it does increase the cap use of the weapon).
Originally by: Sochin
CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
|
Nafri
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Posted - 2004.12.30 22:54:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
Like it or not, 8 Mega Pulse will simply not kill any BS if its somewhat tanked. 7 Ions manage that QUITE EASILY. And please mention Ions have a lower ROF. Comparing is fine, but do it right please.
*cough* range ?
Wanna fly with me?
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Nafri
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Posted - 2004.12.30 22:54:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
Like it or not, 8 Mega Pulse will simply not kill any BS if its somewhat tanked. 7 Ions manage that QUITE EASILY. And please mention Ions have a lower ROF. Comparing is fine, but do it right please.
*cough* range ?
Wanna fly with me?
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Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2004.12.30 22:57:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Elve Sorrow on 30/12/2004 23:06:11
Yes, Mega Pulse have good range. But like i said up there twice, nerf the range. And mind you, thats coming from a guy with Amarr BS 5 and L pulse spec. I agree Mega Pulse are SLIGHTLY overpowered. But not because of their damage, because of their versatility.
EDIT:
Let me slightly refine that statement. What i see coming right now is a nerf to pulse lasers damage, range AND tracking. Along with a change of boni for the Amarr BS. Im fine with ONE of those. But all of them will nerf both lasers and Amarr ships back to the stoneage.
/Elve
New Video out! Watch me!
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Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2004.12.30 22:57:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Elve Sorrow on 30/12/2004 23:06:11
Yes, Mega Pulse have good range. But like i said up there twice, nerf the range. And mind you, thats coming from a guy with Amarr BS 5 and L pulse spec. I agree Mega Pulse are SLIGHTLY overpowered. But not because of their damage, because of their versatility.
EDIT:
Let me slightly refine that statement. What i see coming right now is a nerf to pulse lasers damage, range AND tracking. Along with a change of boni for the Amarr BS. Im fine with ONE of those. But all of them will nerf both lasers and Amarr ships back to the stoneage.
/Elve
New Video out! Watch me!
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Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2004.12.30 23:18:00 -
[67]
If they just reduce the tracking on megapulse by about 10% everything will be fine.
By the way, did anybody else see Jim Raynor in this thread?
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Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2004.12.30 23:18:00 -
[68]
If they just reduce the tracking on megapulse by about 10% everything will be fine.
By the way, did anybody else see Jim Raynor in this thread?
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RollinDutchMasters
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Posted - 2004.12.30 23:34:00 -
[69]
Edited by: RollinDutchMasters on 31/12/2004 00:34:06
If you want to make megapulse into a short range weapon, that would be super. Boost their tracking, cut their range to ~10k base, and give them another 10% damage.
As it is, they have the damage, tracking, and cap use of a short ranged weapon, while being effective at considerably longer distances.
Alternatively, instead of turning them into a blaster/autocannon clone, increase tracking by 30%, cut their optimal to 10k, change to a 7x damage mod, and double their RoF.
Originally by: Sochin
CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
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RollinDutchMasters
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Posted - 2004.12.30 23:34:00 -
[70]
Edited by: RollinDutchMasters on 31/12/2004 00:34:06
If you want to make megapulse into a short range weapon, that would be super. Boost their tracking, cut their range to ~10k base, and give them another 10% damage.
As it is, they have the damage, tracking, and cap use of a short ranged weapon, while being effective at considerably longer distances.
Alternatively, instead of turning them into a blaster/autocannon clone, increase tracking by 30%, cut their optimal to 10k, change to a 7x damage mod, and double their RoF.
Originally by: Sochin
CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
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Poie
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Posted - 2004.12.31 00:19:00 -
[71]
I've died by them more times than I've flown them that's for sure and I've flown a few. On at least three occasions I've had them demolish a frigate coming out of gatecloak preparing to warp to the next gate from over 150km off with the assistance of a single range support ship. I don't think a zero lock on timer is much susceptible to modification. I don't see why they should lock on any faster than a Rifter or the like. Doesn't bother me though, I just need to get that other agility skill up a bit more. I just wish more things in the game weren't decided in the span of 4 seconds. Personally I don't much care for that direction of gameplay. If I can get to warp half a second sooner though, I might survive next time and I won't care much anymore.
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Poie
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Posted - 2004.12.31 00:19:00 -
[72]
I've died by them more times than I've flown them that's for sure and I've flown a few. On at least three occasions I've had them demolish a frigate coming out of gatecloak preparing to warp to the next gate from over 150km off with the assistance of a single range support ship. I don't think a zero lock on timer is much susceptible to modification. I don't see why they should lock on any faster than a Rifter or the like. Doesn't bother me though, I just need to get that other agility skill up a bit more. I just wish more things in the game weren't decided in the span of 4 seconds. Personally I don't much care for that direction of gameplay. If I can get to warp half a second sooner though, I might survive next time and I won't care much anymore.
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Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2004.12.31 00:39:00 -
[73]
Originally by: RollinDutchMasters
Edited by: RollinDutchMasters on 31/12/2004 00:34:06
If you want to make megapulse into a short range weapon, that would be super. Boost their tracking, cut their range to ~10k base, and give them another 10% damage.
As it is, they have the damage, tracking, and cap use of a short ranged weapon, while being effective at considerably longer distances.
Alternatively, instead of turning them into a blaster/autocannon clone, increase tracking by 30%, cut their optimal to 10k, change to a 7x damage mod, and double their RoF.
Thankyou. That is EXACTLY what i want to happen. Although i was thinking about 6km for Dual Heavy Pulse and 7.5 for Mega Pulse. Along with a 5% damage and a 5% ROF bonus on the Arma. The apoc should then get 5% cap size and 10% optimal. Problem fixed, and Amarr ships are still usefull. (Amarr BS atleast..Dont get me started on Amarr frigs n cruisers..)
/Elve
New Video out! Watch me!
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Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2004.12.31 00:39:00 -
[74]
Originally by: RollinDutchMasters
Edited by: RollinDutchMasters on 31/12/2004 00:34:06
If you want to make megapulse into a short range weapon, that would be super. Boost their tracking, cut their range to ~10k base, and give them another 10% damage.
As it is, they have the damage, tracking, and cap use of a short ranged weapon, while being effective at considerably longer distances.
Alternatively, instead of turning them into a blaster/autocannon clone, increase tracking by 30%, cut their optimal to 10k, change to a 7x damage mod, and double their RoF.
Thankyou. That is EXACTLY what i want to happen. Although i was thinking about 6km for Dual Heavy Pulse and 7.5 for Mega Pulse. Along with a 5% damage and a 5% ROF bonus on the Arma. The apoc should then get 5% cap size and 10% optimal. Problem fixed, and Amarr ships are still usefull. (Amarr BS atleast..Dont get me started on Amarr frigs n cruisers..)
/Elve
New Video out! Watch me!
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Ithildin
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Posted - 2004.12.31 00:44:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Wrangler
With more HP it will take longer to eat through the shield/armor/whatever, and the gankageddon will (hopefully) run out of cap before that happens.
There's this ship in EVE.
It does a lot of damage. A lot.
It's got a slight problem, though. It's guns take as much capacitor per second as lasers. And it uses ammo. And it doesn't have a phenomenal capacitor.
There's another problem. It's slow, so you need an MWD to get close to the enemy. Which incidentally isn't very good if you add paragraph two into the equation.
You see, it needs to get close to the enemy. Really close. So close that you don't have to approach it to use webbifiers and 7.5km scramblers on it.
Will the Megathron get a boost, considering it's the first and most likely candidate of any ship to loose cap before the enemy dies? With the changes to HP that are planned, of course. Right now, it's only sub-par and not in *dire* need (like the Projectiles are).
--
If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please. |
Ithildin
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Posted - 2004.12.31 00:44:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Wrangler
With more HP it will take longer to eat through the shield/armor/whatever, and the gankageddon will (hopefully) run out of cap before that happens.
There's this ship in EVE.
It does a lot of damage. A lot.
It's got a slight problem, though. It's guns take as much capacitor per second as lasers. And it uses ammo. And it doesn't have a phenomenal capacitor.
There's another problem. It's slow, so you need an MWD to get close to the enemy. Which incidentally isn't very good if you add paragraph two into the equation.
You see, it needs to get close to the enemy. Really close. So close that you don't have to approach it to use webbifiers and 7.5km scramblers on it.
Will the Megathron get a boost, considering it's the first and most likely candidate of any ship to loose cap before the enemy dies? With the changes to HP that are planned, of course. Right now, it's only sub-par and not in *dire* need (like the Projectiles are).
--
If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please. |
Ithildin
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Posted - 2004.12.31 00:51:00 -
[77]
Ok, my last post went off topic.
As for the Armageddon, I strongly feel that the Devs should not touch it's range capabilities. What is wrong, however, is the damage and tracking at that range, not to mention that it's not exactly hard to fit Mega Pulses as they seem to be rated as middling turrets and not high end. If the range is cut on Mega Pulse and Dual Heavy Pulse, then diversity will be lost in EVE as the range will be too close to that of 800mm Repeating Artilleries.
In it's essence, I hold that in the end it's the damage that'll have to go down a few notches. Same goes for Radio ammo, which should loose 8 EM but gain 4 Thermal. The state of lasers no longer call for this slight boost that was given them back in the days when tracking didn't matter and when capacitor use of the lasers was balanced against that they didn't use ammo (instead of Hybrids being most ammo AND capacitor consuming, as it is today if you compare to ship capacitor and cargo hold)
--
If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please. |
Ithildin
|
Posted - 2004.12.31 00:51:00 -
[78]
Ok, my last post went off topic.
As for the Armageddon, I strongly feel that the Devs should not touch it's range capabilities. What is wrong, however, is the damage and tracking at that range, not to mention that it's not exactly hard to fit Mega Pulses as they seem to be rated as middling turrets and not high end. If the range is cut on Mega Pulse and Dual Heavy Pulse, then diversity will be lost in EVE as the range will be too close to that of 800mm Repeating Artilleries.
In it's essence, I hold that in the end it's the damage that'll have to go down a few notches. Same goes for Radio ammo, which should loose 8 EM but gain 4 Thermal. The state of lasers no longer call for this slight boost that was given them back in the days when tracking didn't matter and when capacitor use of the lasers was balanced against that they didn't use ammo (instead of Hybrids being most ammo AND capacitor consuming, as it is today if you compare to ship capacitor and cargo hold)
--
If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please. |
Torment
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Posted - 2004.12.31 00:57:00 -
[79]
correct Ithildin,the mega really needs a boost or blasters do,because to be honest there both crap.
And to the 2 mods that replyed to this thread,are you even playing this game or did you put to much brandy in your christmas cake.You are wrong full stop.
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Torment
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Posted - 2004.12.31 00:57:00 -
[80]
correct Ithildin,the mega really needs a boost or blasters do,because to be honest there both crap.
And to the 2 mods that replyed to this thread,are you even playing this game or did you put to much brandy in your christmas cake.You are wrong full stop.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2004.12.31 01:08:00 -
[81]
"Alternatively, instead of turning them into a blaster/autocannon clone, increase tracking by 30%, cut their optimal to 10k, change to a 7x damage mod, and double their RoF."
Uhh so you'd have (without ship boosts applied)
Mega Pulse Laser I
DoT: 15.0
Cap usage: 2.54/sec
optimal: 10k
tracking: 0.0351
2500 grid
50 cpu
vs
Neutron Blaster Cannon I
DoT: 14.4
Cap usage: 3.75/sec
optimal: 6k
tracking: 0.05
2750 grid
65 cpu
... basically a gun outclassing the heaviest short range rails in every single field save the tracking? That's kinda overdoing it... :x
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2004.12.31 01:08:00 -
[82]
"Alternatively, instead of turning them into a blaster/autocannon clone, increase tracking by 30%, cut their optimal to 10k, change to a 7x damage mod, and double their RoF."
Uhh so you'd have (without ship boosts applied)
Mega Pulse Laser I
DoT: 15.0
Cap usage: 2.54/sec
optimal: 10k
tracking: 0.0351
2500 grid
50 cpu
vs
Neutron Blaster Cannon I
DoT: 14.4
Cap usage: 3.75/sec
optimal: 6k
tracking: 0.05
2750 grid
65 cpu
... basically a gun outclassing the heaviest short range rails in every single field save the tracking? That's kinda overdoing it... :x
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Shintoko Akahoshi
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Posted - 2004.12.31 01:32:00 -
[83]
The thing that many people don't take into account with lasers when they do damage calculations is that they do at least 50% of their damage as EM, with no other options aside from an EM/thermal mix. While this eats unhardened shields pretty well, it's poor against armor. A Typhoon, for instance, has a natural armor EM resistance of 70%, which cuts down the short range damage done by a laser by a huge factor. It also allows it to tank the thing at long range without running an armor hardener at all. To get similar resistance against a blaster (kinetic/thermal mix) requires a pair of hardeners in the low slots.
There's no meaning to life when you cling only to common sense |
Shintoko Akahoshi
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Posted - 2004.12.31 01:32:00 -
[84]
The thing that many people don't take into account with lasers when they do damage calculations is that they do at least 50% of their damage as EM, with no other options aside from an EM/thermal mix. While this eats unhardened shields pretty well, it's poor against armor. A Typhoon, for instance, has a natural armor EM resistance of 70%, which cuts down the short range damage done by a laser by a huge factor. It also allows it to tank the thing at long range without running an armor hardener at all. To get similar resistance against a blaster (kinetic/thermal mix) requires a pair of hardeners in the low slots.
There's no meaning to life when you cling only to common sense |
KompleX
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Posted - 2004.12.31 01:56:00 -
[85]
Havn't bothered reading the hole thread, but the thing is: The Gedon itself does not need a nerf. If you so desperatly want it so. A nerf for stacking of dammage mods/tracking mods is what would be needed to nerf the gankageddon.
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KompleX
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Posted - 2004.12.31 01:56:00 -
[86]
Havn't bothered reading the hole thread, but the thing is: The Gedon itself does not need a nerf. If you so desperatly want it so. A nerf for stacking of dammage mods/tracking mods is what would be needed to nerf the gankageddon.
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Shocky
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Posted - 2004.12.31 01:56:00 -
[87]
Guys, please stop all this nerf this , nerf that BS. Look what you did to projectiles.. They been ******* useless now for the last 6 months thanks to you whining little ****s now STFU!
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Shocky
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Posted - 2004.12.31 01:56:00 -
[88]
Guys, please stop all this nerf this , nerf that BS. Look what you did to projectiles.. They been ******* useless now for the last 6 months thanks to you whining little ****s now STFU!
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2004.12.31 02:17:00 -
[89]
"The thing that many people don't take into account with lasers when they do damage calculations is that they do at least 50% of their damage as EM, with no other options aside from an EM/thermal mix."
Aye; i check the damage against half/half mix of shield and armour, with averaged natural resistances. Simply because anything beyond that is too much of a guessing game and tangle of what-if's.
Can't presume anything regarding possible hardening the target ship can be running, because there's way too many options. E.g. someone can be using just single thermal hardener on shields because they'd rather have a nice amount of protection from both lasers and hybrids. Or just EM hardener because they don't like that big fat 0 in their shield resistances. Or EM/thermal mix. Or EM/thermal and kinetic, or EM and couple thermals... etc and so on. And same for armour where it gets even more fuzzy with the multi-spec hardeners that are actually usable. And each of these will paint very different picture of how various weapons perform... so in the end, think best thing to do is just ignore these altogether. ^^;;
(not to mention balancing weapons with presumption people will be running certain modules is plain silly, since it then creates situation where people have to use these modules just to maintain the game balance. It's like giving the Amarr that 10% cap usage bonus of theirs 'because lasers use lots of cap' ... like, hello, wasn't it the point the lasers use lots of cap in exchange for what they can do? --;
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2004.12.31 02:17:00 -
[90]
"The thing that many people don't take into account with lasers when they do damage calculations is that they do at least 50% of their damage as EM, with no other options aside from an EM/thermal mix."
Aye; i check the damage against half/half mix of shield and armour, with averaged natural resistances. Simply because anything beyond that is too much of a guessing game and tangle of what-if's.
Can't presume anything regarding possible hardening the target ship can be running, because there's way too many options. E.g. someone can be using just single thermal hardener on shields because they'd rather have a nice amount of protection from both lasers and hybrids. Or just EM hardener because they don't like that big fat 0 in their shield resistances. Or EM/thermal mix. Or EM/thermal and kinetic, or EM and couple thermals... etc and so on. And same for armour where it gets even more fuzzy with the multi-spec hardeners that are actually usable. And each of these will paint very different picture of how various weapons perform... so in the end, think best thing to do is just ignore these altogether. ^^;;
(not to mention balancing weapons with presumption people will be running certain modules is plain silly, since it then creates situation where people have to use these modules just to maintain the game balance. It's like giving the Amarr that 10% cap usage bonus of theirs 'because lasers use lots of cap' ... like, hello, wasn't it the point the lasers use lots of cap in exchange for what they can do? --;
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JoCool
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Posted - 2004.12.31 02:54:00 -
[91]
Edited by: JoCool on 31/12/2004 02:55:12
Just because 20 people in the forums post that the geddon or its guns or damage mod stacking should be nerfed nothing will change.
The 'geddon is balanced. Full stop.
Most people just think it's not because they often get killed by those - because of their high damage output. And the reason to this is because you see so many 'geddons. They're easy targets though and fun to kill. You see one Scorp can render two of them obsolete, and *any* other ship, even the Dominix, can take one out quickly. Hell, 2 Frigates kill a 'geddon.
Woaah Black Betty bam ba lam bams a Gankgeddon alone
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JoCool
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Posted - 2004.12.31 02:54:00 -
[92]
Edited by: JoCool on 31/12/2004 02:55:12
Just because 20 people in the forums post that the geddon or its guns or damage mod stacking should be nerfed nothing will change.
The 'geddon is balanced. Full stop.
Most people just think it's not because they often get killed by those - because of their high damage output. And the reason to this is because you see so many 'geddons. They're easy targets though and fun to kill. You see one Scorp can render two of them obsolete, and *any* other ship, even the Dominix, can take one out quickly. Hell, 2 Frigates kill a 'geddon.
Woaah Black Betty bam ba lam bams a Gankgeddon alone
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Xtro 2
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Posted - 2004.12.31 03:13:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
The disussion is about gankageddons thankyouvermuch. Gankageddons sacrifice any defense for their offense. An Ibis can kill them. As for pulse lasers...Cut their optimal in half, increase their tracking slightly and be done with it.
INCREASE tracking? are you insane?
__________________________________________
Hell is nothing more than an office with fluorecent lights. |
Xtro 2
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Posted - 2004.12.31 03:13:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
The disussion is about gankageddons thankyouvermuch. Gankageddons sacrifice any defense for their offense. An Ibis can kill them. As for pulse lasers...Cut their optimal in half, increase their tracking slightly and be done with it.
INCREASE tracking? are you insane?
__________________________________________
Hell is nothing more than an office with fluorecent lights. |
Xtro 2
|
Posted - 2004.12.31 03:15:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Lomithrandra
I like to think that in EVE, every setup has a counter setup.
Indeed, typically this is called the CCP 'gameplay limiter' nerf bat.
__________________________________________
Hell is nothing more than an office with fluorecent lights. |
Xtro 2
|
Posted - 2004.12.31 03:15:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Lomithrandra
I like to think that in EVE, every setup has a counter setup.
Indeed, typically this is called the CCP 'gameplay limiter' nerf bat.
__________________________________________
Hell is nothing more than an office with fluorecent lights. |
Xtro 2
|
Posted - 2004.12.31 03:17:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Joshua Calvert
Originally by: Lomithrandra
I like to think that in EVE, every setup has a counter setup.
The gankageddon is no exception.
They can be tanked, and they die very fast.
They can be jammed, and they die very fast.
They can be dampened, and they die very fast.
To an unprepared ship, they are very effective, but to a ship with either EW, or a suitable tank, they fall quickly.
I believe with the upcoming increased hitpoints, the leathality of the gankageddon will be reduced, as it has to chew through more tanked hitpoints, whilst still having nothing to defend itself with.
I don't really understand the final part - HP's are, on average, going to icnrease by the same amount on all ships while damage output is not.
Surely this means that a gankageddons lethality is not reduced but merely delayed.
By mere seconds, gankageddons are used in exactly that.... Ganks, so the poor victims indeed still boned, just he gets to watch comical damage no other gun/ship setup can match that little bit longer...
__________________________________________
Hell is nothing more than an office with fluorecent lights. |
Xtro 2
|
Posted - 2004.12.31 03:17:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Joshua Calvert
Originally by: Lomithrandra
I like to think that in EVE, every setup has a counter setup.
The gankageddon is no exception.
They can be tanked, and they die very fast.
They can be jammed, and they die very fast.
They can be dampened, and they die very fast.
To an unprepared ship, they are very effective, but to a ship with either EW, or a suitable tank, they fall quickly.
I believe with the upcoming increased hitpoints, the leathality of the gankageddon will be reduced, as it has to chew through more tanked hitpoints, whilst still having nothing to defend itself with.
I don't really understand the final part - HP's are, on average, going to icnrease by the same amount on all ships while damage output is not.
Surely this means that a gankageddons lethality is not reduced but merely delayed.
By mere seconds, gankageddons are used in exactly that.... Ganks, so the poor victims indeed still boned, just he gets to watch comical damage no other gun/ship setup can match that little bit longer...
__________________________________________
Hell is nothing more than an office with fluorecent lights. |
Xtro 2
|
Posted - 2004.12.31 03:21:00 -
[99]
Edited by: Xtro 2 on 31/12/2004 03:29:49
Originally by: Wrangler
With more HP it will take longer to eat through the shield/armor/whatever, and the gankageddon will (hopefully) run out of cap before that happens.
most gankageddons i see have an escort boosting their tracking/range further, just means they will pack a nrg xfer as well to assist the geddon.
Fix megapulse, esp the comical fact with radio's u can hit from 1k up to way beyond your optimal+falloff, wish i could match megapulse with my 350m rails in damage/etc or even come close to matching.
geddons fine as is, the only gun of choice on amarr ships however is not.
amarr ship bonus to cap usage was increased and laser energy usage reduced because amarr complained they ran out of cap too much, indeed, but this was based on people using megabeams and tachs, now the entire amarr population pretty much uses megapulse, the bonus's should be revisited, and made more like they were, how many other ships have large capacitor and armour, can run 8 devastating large bs sized guns, run a full and infinatly running tank setup and never run out of capacitor.
im picturing 1 race/ship here.
__________________________________________
Hell is nothing more than an office with fluorecent lights. |
Xtro 2
|
Posted - 2004.12.31 03:21:00 -
[100]
Edited by: Xtro 2 on 31/12/2004 03:29:49
Originally by: Wrangler
With more HP it will take longer to eat through the shield/armor/whatever, and the gankageddon will (hopefully) run out of cap before that happens.
most gankageddons i see have an escort boosting their tracking/range further, just means they will pack a nrg xfer as well to assist the geddon.
Fix megapulse, esp the comical fact with radio's u can hit from 1k up to way beyond your optimal+falloff, wish i could match megapulse with my 350m rails in damage/etc or even come close to matching.
geddons fine as is, the only gun of choice on amarr ships however is not.
amarr ship bonus to cap usage was increased and laser energy usage reduced because amarr complained they ran out of cap too much, indeed, but this was based on people using megabeams and tachs, now the entire amarr population pretty much uses megapulse, the bonus's should be revisited, and made more like they were, how many other ships have large capacitor and armour, can run 8 devastating large bs sized guns, run a full and infinatly running tank setup and never run out of capacitor.
im picturing 1 race/ship here.
__________________________________________
Hell is nothing more than an office with fluorecent lights. |
Nybbas
|
Posted - 2004.12.31 04:12:00 -
[101]
Edited by: Nybbas on 31/12/2004 04:24:46
Edited by: Nybbas on 31/12/2004 04:13:24
The fact of the matter is that mega pulses are grossly overpowered, compare them to the much tougher to fit neutron blaster cannon, you can not tell me it is balanced, in any way shape or form.... oh wow just read up (imagine that) and there you have it... lol.. ok i just read the whole thing, and as a few others have said, the geddon isnt the problem, its the freaking mega pulses, they are overpowered as hell. Oh and to josephines comment...
"'because lasers use lots of cap' ... like, hello, wasn't it the point the lasers use lots of cap in exchange for what they can do?" HONESTLY NOT ONLY does CCP give amarr ships a abnormally high capacitor to fuel their guns, they give them an AMAZING bonus that in the end lowers the cap cost of a megapulse to like below that of a ion, and while they have a slightly inferior DoT, they cant hit from a WAY longer distance, you compare the 2 guns stats and its plain as day, I don't see how anyone can say these guns arn't overpowered.... |
Nybbas
|
Posted - 2004.12.31 04:12:00 -
[102]
Edited by: Nybbas on 31/12/2004 04:24:46
Edited by: Nybbas on 31/12/2004 04:13:24
The fact of the matter is that mega pulses are grossly overpowered, compare them to the much tougher to fit neutron blaster cannon, you can not tell me it is balanced, in any way shape or form.... oh wow just read up (imagine that) and there you have it... lol.. ok i just read the whole thing, and as a few others have said, the geddon isnt the problem, its the freaking mega pulses, they are overpowered as hell. Oh and to josephines comment...
"'because lasers use lots of cap' ... like, hello, wasn't it the point the lasers use lots of cap in exchange for what they can do?" HONESTLY NOT ONLY does CCP give amarr ships a abnormally high capacitor to fuel their guns, they give them an AMAZING bonus that in the end lowers the cap cost of a megapulse to like below that of a ion, and while they have a slightly inferior DoT, they cant hit from a WAY longer distance, you compare the 2 guns stats and its plain as day, I don't see how anyone can say these guns arn't overpowered.... |
RollinDutchMasters
|
Posted - 2004.12.31 05:50:00 -
[103]
Edited by: RollinDutchMasters on 31/12/2004 05:56:09
Originally by: j0sephine
"Alternatively, instead of turning them into a blaster/autocannon clone, increase tracking by 30%, cut their optimal to 10k, change to a 7x damage mod, and double their RoF."
Uhh so you'd have (without ship boosts applied)
Mega Pulse Laser I
DoT: 15.0
Cap usage: 2.54/sec
optimal: 10k
tracking: 0.0351
2500 grid
50 cpu
vs
Neutron Blaster Cannon I
DoT: 14.4
Cap usage: 3.75/sec
optimal: 6k
tracking: 0.05
2750 grid
65 cpu
... basically a gun outclassing the heaviest short range rails in every single field save the tracking? That's kinda overdoing it... :x
Yeah, was more of a hypothetical thing, turning mega pulse into short-ranged 1400-types (except that these would hit) Quote:
The thing that many people don't take into account with lasers when they do damage calculations is that they do at least 50% of their damage as EM, with no other options aside from an EM/thermal mix. While this eats unhardened shields pretty well, it's poor against armor. A Typhoon, for instance, has a natural armor EM resistance of 70%, which cuts down the short range damage done by a laser by a huge factor. It also allows it to tank the thing at long range without running an armor hardener at all. To get similar resistance against a blaster (kinetic/thermal mix) requires a pair of hardeners in the low slots.
Its the damndest thing that youre comparing laser damage to hybrid damage in a manner that suggusts that it is a disadvantage for lasers. I might be mistaken, but in my experience, the lowest two resistances on a shield tank are EM and Thermal, and the highest is Kinetic and Explosive. For armor, the lowest is explosive and EM, and the higest is Thermal and Kinetic.
What was it that you were saying about how much of a disadvantage EM was compared to Kinetic? Yeah, I'd really hate to have my weapons going after the lowest resistances consistantly.
Originally by: Sochin
CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
|
RollinDutchMasters
|
Posted - 2004.12.31 05:50:00 -
[104]
Edited by: RollinDutchMasters on 31/12/2004 05:56:09
Originally by: j0sephine
"Alternatively, instead of turning them into a blaster/autocannon clone, increase tracking by 30%, cut their optimal to 10k, change to a 7x damage mod, and double their RoF."
Uhh so you'd have (without ship boosts applied)
Mega Pulse Laser I
DoT: 15.0
Cap usage: 2.54/sec
optimal: 10k
tracking: 0.0351
2500 grid
50 cpu
vs
Neutron Blaster Cannon I
DoT: 14.4
Cap usage: 3.75/sec
optimal: 6k
tracking: 0.05
2750 grid
65 cpu
... basically a gun outclassing the heaviest short range rails in every single field save the tracking? That's kinda overdoing it... :x
Yeah, was more of a hypothetical thing, turning mega pulse into short-ranged 1400-types (except that these would hit) Quote:
The thing that many people don't take into account with lasers when they do damage calculations is that they do at least 50% of their damage as EM, with no other options aside from an EM/thermal mix. While this eats unhardened shields pretty well, it's poor against armor. A Typhoon, for instance, has a natural armor EM resistance of 70%, which cuts down the short range damage done by a laser by a huge factor. It also allows it to tank the thing at long range without running an armor hardener at all. To get similar resistance against a blaster (kinetic/thermal mix) requires a pair of hardeners in the low slots.
Its the damndest thing that youre comparing laser damage to hybrid damage in a manner that suggusts that it is a disadvantage for lasers. I might be mistaken, but in my experience, the lowest two resistances on a shield tank are EM and Thermal, and the highest is Kinetic and Explosive. For armor, the lowest is explosive and EM, and the higest is Thermal and Kinetic.
What was it that you were saying about how much of a disadvantage EM was compared to Kinetic? Yeah, I'd really hate to have my weapons going after the lowest resistances consistantly.
Originally by: Sochin
CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
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Sergeant Spot
|
Posted - 2004.12.31 06:07:00 -
[105]
Edited by: Sergeant Spot on 31/12/2004 11:59:33
lol, just like the Raven, the Geddon is fine.
For the record, I'm a Raven pilot, although I have been recently adding some gunnery skills.
The key measure of a ship's need for nerfing/buffing is by looking at what the senior pvpers fly (the ones who can fly several types of ships).
If there is one battleship type that is clearly used more than others, it is the Scorpion, but ONLY due to its eight mid slots for EW. And no, I don't think the Scorp needs a nerf.
Here is what I see:
Caldari: Range and EW
Amarr: Tough close in killers. Especially if drones are not counted, Amarr are probably the toughest.
Gallente: Maybe the toughest, but only if their drones come into play
Minmatar: Speed and maneuver
Edit: This is general, including Frigs, Cruisers, and BS. As for Caldari range with missiles, I never said it could not be countered by warping out (or a defender rack or two...). As for who is toughest overall between Amarr and Gallente, I'd bet Amarr right now, but one tiny nerf/buff could change things.
I'm sure others will disagree, but thats my 2 cents.
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Sergeant Spot
|
Posted - 2004.12.31 06:07:00 -
[106]
Edited by: Sergeant Spot on 31/12/2004 11:59:33
lol, just like the Raven, the Geddon is fine.
For the record, I'm a Raven pilot, although I have been recently adding some gunnery skills.
The key measure of a ship's need for nerfing/buffing is by looking at what the senior pvpers fly (the ones who can fly several types of ships).
If there is one battleship type that is clearly used more than others, it is the Scorpion, but ONLY due to its eight mid slots for EW. And no, I don't think the Scorp needs a nerf.
Here is what I see:
Caldari: Range and EW
Amarr: Tough close in killers. Especially if drones are not counted, Amarr are probably the toughest.
Gallente: Maybe the toughest, but only if their drones come into play
Minmatar: Speed and maneuver
Edit: This is general, including Frigs, Cruisers, and BS. As for Caldari range with missiles, I never said it could not be countered by warping out (or a defender rack or two...). As for who is toughest overall between Amarr and Gallente, I'd bet Amarr right now, but one tiny nerf/buff could change things.
I'm sure others will disagree, but thats my 2 cents.
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RollinDutchMasters
|
Posted - 2004.12.31 06:18:00 -
[107]
Edited by: RollinDutchMasters on 31/12/2004 06:20:48
Edited by: RollinDutchMasters on 31/12/2004 06:18:46
Originally by: Sergeant Spot
Caldari: Range and EW
Amarr: Tough close in killers. If drones are not counted, Amarr are probably the toughest.
Gallente: Probably the toughest, but only if their drones come into play
Minmatar: Speed and maneuver
I cant tell if youre serious or if youre being sarcastic.
Caldari have EW and have excellent damage, but missiles (and their delayed impact) mean that they are less then effective at range, especially in fleet warfare.
Amarr are the toughest, but an Arma has the same drone bay as a Mega. Drone advantage is just the domi, and it makes up for it with (very) low powergrid for a turret ship, and only 6 highslots. I wouldnt call them close-in killers either, as their standard armament, mega pulse, are effective at considerable range.
I'm not sure what gallente ships you think are 'tough', but many cruisers will have better cap recharge then a mega. Ever tried to run a tank without cap? Its not as much fun as it sounds. If you want to fly a gallente battleship, you'd best start stockpiling Cap Booster 800s near the combat zone, because theyre mandatory and theyre not fun to move.
And minmatar... I'm not even going to touch. Quote:
For battleships, Minmatar are probably the weakest, but they are very popular for frigs. VERY popular and VERY effective.
Wow, minmatar frigates are good. I guess the tech2 tempest should just be 100 rifters duct-taped together.
Originally by: Sochin
CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
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RollinDutchMasters
|
Posted - 2004.12.31 06:18:00 -
[108]
Edited by: RollinDutchMasters on 31/12/2004 06:20:48
Edited by: RollinDutchMasters on 31/12/2004 06:18:46
Originally by: Sergeant Spot
Caldari: Range and EW
Amarr: Tough close in killers. If drones are not counted, Amarr are probably the toughest.
Gallente: Probably the toughest, but only if their drones come into play
Minmatar: Speed and maneuver
I cant tell if youre serious or if youre being sarcastic.
Caldari have EW and have excellent damage, but missiles (and their delayed impact) mean that they are less then effective at range, especially in fleet warfare.
Amarr are the toughest, but an Arma has the same drone bay as a Mega. Drone advantage is just the domi, and it makes up for it with (very) low powergrid for a turret ship, and only 6 highslots. I wouldnt call them close-in killers either, as their standard armament, mega pulse, are effective at considerable range.
I'm not sure what gallente ships you think are 'tough', but many cruisers will have better cap recharge then a mega. Ever tried to run a tank without cap? Its not as much fun as it sounds. If you want to fly a gallente battleship, you'd best start stockpiling Cap Booster 800s near the combat zone, because theyre mandatory and theyre not fun to move.
And minmatar... I'm not even going to touch. Quote:
For battleships, Minmatar are probably the weakest, but they are very popular for frigs. VERY popular and VERY effective.
Wow, minmatar frigates are good. I guess the tech2 tempest should just be 100 rifters duct-taped together.
Originally by: Sochin
CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
|
Hamatitio
|
Posted - 2004.12.31 06:49:00 -
[109]
Tech2 crystals with explosive damage, hmmm
--
Director of Ganking:
Death Row Inc. |
Hamatitio
|
Posted - 2004.12.31 06:49:00 -
[110]
Tech2 crystals with explosive damage, hmmm
--
Director of Ganking:
Death Row Inc. |
theRaptor
|
Posted - 2004.12.31 06:52:00 -
[111]
Originally by: RollinDutchMasters
And minmatar... I'm not even going to touch. Quote:
For battleships, Minmatar are probably the weakest, but they are very popular for frigs. VERY popular and VERY effective.
Wow, minmatar frigates are good. I guess the tech2 tempest should just be 100 rifters duct-taped together.
I thought they where already?
--------------------------------------------------
|
theRaptor
|
Posted - 2004.12.31 06:52:00 -
[112]
Originally by: RollinDutchMasters
And minmatar... I'm not even going to touch. Quote:
For battleships, Minmatar are probably the weakest, but they are very popular for frigs. VERY popular and VERY effective.
Wow, minmatar frigates are good. I guess the tech2 tempest should just be 100 rifters duct-taped together.
I thought they where already?
--------------------------------------------------
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Icomeinpeace
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Posted - 2004.12.31 07:19:00 -
[113]
Sighz, no more nerfing.
Geddon is fine, ever think maybe the other person that killed you had very high skills and it wasnt the ship at all?
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Icomeinpeace
|
Posted - 2004.12.31 07:19:00 -
[114]
Sighz, no more nerfing.
Geddon is fine, ever think maybe the other person that killed you had very high skills and it wasnt the ship at all?
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KingsGambit
|
Posted - 2004.12.31 07:42:00 -
[115]
Nerf the Ibis! Boost the Maulus!
What's this topic about again? I get confused easily
-------------
BYOC Crow Interceptor Deals |
KingsGambit
|
Posted - 2004.12.31 07:42:00 -
[116]
Nerf the Ibis! Boost the Maulus!
What's this topic about again? I get confused easily
-------------
BYOC Crow Interceptor Deals |
Typherin laidai
|
Posted - 2004.12.31 08:23:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
Well, the Armageddon just needs it bonus changed. 5% ROF and 5% tracking. (Id suggest 5% damage but id get so flamed its silly.) Then Pulse lasers need a 10km optimal without skills, and their tracking upped a bit. Hell, maybe give it the same bonus the Thorax gets, 5% less MWD cap thing. Make it a proper Megathron-competitor.
Oh and Josh, as for the Ibis n natural recharge. Ive tried it, 2 Ibis's can break its natural recharge. One cant get it below 35% shield.
Right ?? So prehaps im reading this wrong, In which case I appoligise. But you would like to see Mega Pulse Lasers optimum cut to 10k ?? 4k short of its medium sized counterpart
ummm forgive me for saying that idea is bl00dy stupid. As after this surely the medium sized will need to be ammended to fall in line with its larger brother. So leaving it on about 5k optimum range (Roughly cnt b assed to figure it out) Geee wouldn't that be a good idea...
Typherin LaiDai Care Negotitations Expert level 5
'Give me a position of power and I'l abuse it in an instant' |
Typherin laidai
|
Posted - 2004.12.31 08:23:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
Well, the Armageddon just needs it bonus changed. 5% ROF and 5% tracking. (Id suggest 5% damage but id get so flamed its silly.) Then Pulse lasers need a 10km optimal without skills, and their tracking upped a bit. Hell, maybe give it the same bonus the Thorax gets, 5% less MWD cap thing. Make it a proper Megathron-competitor.
Oh and Josh, as for the Ibis n natural recharge. Ive tried it, 2 Ibis's can break its natural recharge. One cant get it below 35% shield.
Right ?? So prehaps im reading this wrong, In which case I appoligise. But you would like to see Mega Pulse Lasers optimum cut to 10k ?? 4k short of its medium sized counterpart
ummm forgive me for saying that idea is bl00dy stupid. As after this surely the medium sized will need to be ammended to fall in line with its larger brother. So leaving it on about 5k optimum range (Roughly cnt b assed to figure it out) Geee wouldn't that be a good idea...
Typherin LaiDai Care Negotitations Expert level 5
'Give me a position of power and I'l abuse it in an instant' |
Slithereen
|
Posted - 2004.12.31 08:45:00 -
[119]
I said before and I said again, the nerf cycle has to stop.
I remember how many people whined about the Tempest and look what happened.
Be careful what you wish for. The worst part is getting them answered.
The geddon is a balanced ship right now. It is meant as a damage dealing specialist. It does not have skills for any other thing.
The answer is not to nerf the geddon but to rebalance the other ships, such as a little boost on the projectiles and hybrids. And HPs will be increased across the board.
_______________________________________________
"Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies,
"Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy.
"Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
|
Slithereen
|
Posted - 2004.12.31 08:45:00 -
[120]
I said before and I said again, the nerf cycle has to stop.
I remember how many people whined about the Tempest and look what happened.
Be careful what you wish for. The worst part is getting them answered.
The geddon is a balanced ship right now. It is meant as a damage dealing specialist. It does not have skills for any other thing.
The answer is not to nerf the geddon but to rebalance the other ships, such as a little boost on the projectiles and hybrids. And HPs will be increased across the board.
_______________________________________________
"Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies,
"Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy.
"Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
|
Poie
|
Posted - 2004.12.31 08:46:00 -
[121]
Oh I think the geddon is balanced enough versus other battleships. Or I don't really care which is kindof the same thing.
I just think the geddon can be a little too good versus smaller craft. It doesn't need a fullblown nerf, just a little nudge to keep it from ripping fleeing things out of the sky without really having to engage them maybe. At least I think I should be able to warp clear of one mostly intact from gatecloak when I have all appropriate my nav skills trained up all the way. I don't necessarilly believe I should be able to get away from two of them with gate camp assistants I guess.
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Poie
|
Posted - 2004.12.31 08:46:00 -
[122]
Oh I think the geddon is balanced enough versus other battleships. Or I don't really care which is kindof the same thing.
I just think the geddon can be a little too good versus smaller craft. It doesn't need a fullblown nerf, just a little nudge to keep it from ripping fleeing things out of the sky without really having to engage them maybe. At least I think I should be able to warp clear of one mostly intact from gatecloak when I have all appropriate my nav skills trained up all the way. I don't necessarilly believe I should be able to get away from two of them with gate camp assistants I guess.
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Arud
|
Posted - 2004.12.31 09:16:00 -
[123]
who in their right mind would use radio crystals??????
their excessive range comes from people who add radio crystals to the equation, but ofcorse that seriosly nerfs the damage.
Mega pulses are medium range guns, always have been, they should not be changed to short range guns since from the start thats not the amarr tactic.
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Arud
|
Posted - 2004.12.31 09:16:00 -
[124]
who in their right mind would use radio crystals??????
their excessive range comes from people who add radio crystals to the equation, but ofcorse that seriosly nerfs the damage.
Mega pulses are medium range guns, always have been, they should not be changed to short range guns since from the start thats not the amarr tactic.
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Novarei
|
Posted - 2004.12.31 10:14:00 -
[125]
Yes gankgeddons are mean, but as has been stated they sacrifice anything in the way of defence for all that firepower. It is rediculously overpowered for a T1 BS, can easily outkill a raven and take down the best poc armour tank. But this is what makes the game fun, you cant nerf it because its a skill and equip issue not an issue with the ship itself.
+--------------------------------------------+
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Novarei
|
Posted - 2004.12.31 10:14:00 -
[126]
Yes gankgeddons are mean, but as has been stated they sacrifice anything in the way of defence for all that firepower. It is rediculously overpowered for a T1 BS, can easily outkill a raven and take down the best poc armour tank. But this is what makes the game fun, you cant nerf it because its a skill and equip issue not an issue with the ship itself.
+--------------------------------------------+
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TIO 101
|
Posted - 2004.12.31 10:20:00 -
[127]
Edited by: TIO 101 on 31/12/2004 10:21:23
can we have a complete char wipe ontop of all these Nerf crys plz.......
the ending of Beta 2 has arived......
oh yeah, stop asking for nerfs for everything.. they're trying to make fights last upto twice as long in other threads (extra hp's etc.) yet they still not thought about fast cap drain battleships. (megathron springs to mind).
however..
The Dev's can see what is happening in eve atm, they got peeps dedicated to testing these things and as the eula states, online gameplay may change. so wait.. they may allrdy have something planed allrdy, as if the hp changes come in other changes will be needed which im sure will eventually come.
Hats off to the dev's for their continued work on the gameplay which has changed dramaticaly since start of retail for the good.
h4xb4n
|
TIO 101
|
Posted - 2004.12.31 10:20:00 -
[128]
Edited by: TIO 101 on 31/12/2004 10:21:23
can we have a complete char wipe ontop of all these Nerf crys plz.......
the ending of Beta 2 has arived......
oh yeah, stop asking for nerfs for everything.. they're trying to make fights last upto twice as long in other threads (extra hp's etc.) yet they still not thought about fast cap drain battleships. (megathron springs to mind).
however..
The Dev's can see what is happening in eve atm, they got peeps dedicated to testing these things and as the eula states, online gameplay may change. so wait.. they may allrdy have something planed allrdy, as if the hp changes come in other changes will be needed which im sure will eventually come.
Hats off to the dev's for their continued work on the gameplay which has changed dramaticaly since start of retail for the good.
h4xb4n
|
MaiLina KaTar
|
Posted - 2004.12.31 10:27:00 -
[129]
Maybe it's because of my admittedly limited PvP experience... but to me it seems that there a various ways to defend yourself against a gankageddon. So where's the problem with these ships or what's the imbalance cause I don't see one?
Mai's Idealog |
MaiLina KaTar
|
Posted - 2004.12.31 10:27:00 -
[130]
Maybe it's because of my admittedly limited PvP experience... but to me it seems that there a various ways to defend yourself against a gankageddon. So where's the problem with these ships or what's the imbalance cause I don't see one?
Mai's Idealog |
Arekuwa
|
Posted - 2004.12.31 10:34:00 -
[131]
Originally by: JoCool
The 'geddon is balanced. Full stop.
In 1v1 BS combat, yes the Geddon is fairly balanced.
In groups, gankageddons become plainly devastating, if they are backed up by a few Scorps and fitted properly (due to the stacking penalty, they only have to sacrifice about 20-25% of their firepower to become pretty much immune to target jamming). The only real counter is massive dampening and staying at range, but that can counter virtually anything anyway.
|
Arekuwa
|
Posted - 2004.12.31 10:34:00 -
[132]
Originally by: JoCool
The 'geddon is balanced. Full stop.
In 1v1 BS combat, yes the Geddon is fairly balanced.
In groups, gankageddons become plainly devastating, if they are backed up by a few Scorps and fitted properly (due to the stacking penalty, they only have to sacrifice about 20-25% of their firepower to become pretty much immune to target jamming). The only real counter is massive dampening and staying at range, but that can counter virtually anything anyway.
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Melinwe
|
Posted - 2004.12.31 10:54:00 -
[133]
Edited by: Melinwe on 31/12/2004 10:54:53
Nerf New Year.
Edit: I just needed to add, it is severely overpowered.
|
Melinwe
|
Posted - 2004.12.31 10:54:00 -
[134]
Edited by: Melinwe on 31/12/2004 10:54:53
Nerf New Year.
Edit: I just needed to add, it is severely overpowered.
|
Elve Sorrow
|
Posted - 2004.12.31 10:59:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Typherin laidai
Right ?? So prehaps im reading this wrong, In which case I appoligise. But you would like to see Mega Pulse Lasers optimum cut to 10k ?? 4k short of its medium sized counterpart
ummm forgive me for saying that idea is bl00dy stupid. As after this surely the medium sized will need to be ammended to fall in line with its larger brother. So leaving it on about 5k optimum range (Roughly cnt b assed to figure it out) Geee wouldn't that be a good idea...
That would be an awesome idea, because i came up with it. Seriously though, im trying to find a way for Pulse lasers to be CHANGED instead of nerfed. Instead of making them useless, a la longrange projectiles. And yes ofcourse, all pulse lasers would have to be adjusted. Slightly higher damage, maybe a tad more tracking, and WAY lower optimal.
The Armageddon with its rof bonus and my suggested damage bonus could be a formidable shortrange platform, able to MAYBE rival a Megathron. Lower damage, but higher survivability. The Apoc would be an awesome longrange ship, using Mega beams. (Tachyons are useless for anything but sniping.) But anyway, its just an idea...But honestly, who hasnt dreamed of flying a shortrange ship? I know i do. 
/Elve
New Video out! Watch me!
|
Elve Sorrow
|
Posted - 2004.12.31 10:59:00 -
[136]
Originally by: Typherin laidai
Right ?? So prehaps im reading this wrong, In which case I appoligise. But you would like to see Mega Pulse Lasers optimum cut to 10k ?? 4k short of its medium sized counterpart
ummm forgive me for saying that idea is bl00dy stupid. As after this surely the medium sized will need to be ammended to fall in line with its larger brother. So leaving it on about 5k optimum range (Roughly cnt b assed to figure it out) Geee wouldn't that be a good idea...
That would be an awesome idea, because i came up with it. Seriously though, im trying to find a way for Pulse lasers to be CHANGED instead of nerfed. Instead of making them useless, a la longrange projectiles. And yes ofcourse, all pulse lasers would have to be adjusted. Slightly higher damage, maybe a tad more tracking, and WAY lower optimal.
The Armageddon with its rof bonus and my suggested damage bonus could be a formidable shortrange platform, able to MAYBE rival a Megathron. Lower damage, but higher survivability. The Apoc would be an awesome longrange ship, using Mega beams. (Tachyons are useless for anything but sniping.) But anyway, its just an idea...But honestly, who hasnt dreamed of flying a shortrange ship? I know i do.
/Elve
New Video out! Watch me!
|
Moneta
|
Posted - 2004.12.31 11:24:00 -
[137]
Edited by: Moneta on 31/12/2004 11:24:12
I'm not crying nerf here, but megapulses in combinations with gankageddon setups are overpowered..full stop.
But it's the pulses that do that, not the geddons
A small demostrations of their curretn place in Eve PvP:
Please note the most used weapon here
The most used BS is the Apoc however, probably due to it being mroe versatile and having mroe staying power in changing situations.
But one thing it does show, is that the part needing work is the Mega Pulse lasers, NOT the geddon itself.
Note that the whole of the top8 most used weapons contains NO other BS sized weapons, with the Torpedoes that are used on nearly ALL BS coming in 9 and 10.
We can all cry and protest on here what we want, but only data form practice gets you the actual state of balance.
So if CCP would be kind enough to give us an e-mail addy to send our combat logs to ?
Originally by: Aneu Angellus
Iv held back from posting on this thread for quite some time, but i think the time had come for me to come in and post.
Aneu
|
Moneta
|
Posted - 2004.12.31 11:24:00 -
[138]
Edited by: Moneta on 31/12/2004 11:24:12
I'm not crying nerf here, but megapulses in combinations with gankageddon setups are overpowered..full stop.
But it's the pulses that do that, not the geddons
A small demostrations of their curretn place in Eve PvP:
Please note the most used weapon here
The most used BS is the Apoc however, probably due to it being mroe versatile and having mroe staying power in changing situations.
But one thing it does show, is that the part needing work is the Mega Pulse lasers, NOT the geddon itself.
Note that the whole of the top8 most used weapons contains NO other BS sized weapons, with the Torpedoes that are used on nearly ALL BS coming in 9 and 10.
We can all cry and protest on here what we want, but only data form practice gets you the actual state of balance.
So if CCP would be kind enough to give us an e-mail addy to send our combat logs to ?
Originally by: Aneu Angellus
Iv held back from posting on this thread for quite some time, but i think the time had come for me to come in and post.
Aneu
|
darth solo
|
Posted - 2004.12.31 11:45:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Joshua Calvert
Originally by: Lomithrandra
I like to think that in EVE, every setup has a counter setup.
The gankageddon is no exception.
They can be tanked, and they die very fast.
They can be jammed, and they die very fast.
They can be dampened, and they die very fast.
To an unprepared ship, they are very effective, but to a ship with either EW, or a suitable tank, they fall quickly.
I believe with the upcoming increased hitpoints, the leathality of the gankageddon will be reduced, as it has to chew through more tanked hitpoints, whilst still having nothing to defend itself with.
I don't really understand the final part - HP's are, on average, going to icnrease by the same amount on all ships while damage output is not.
Surely this means that a gankageddons lethality is not reduced but merely delayed.
think this means u will be able to close range in megas and tempests before he has the chance to blow u up... meaning not being able to hit while u chew him up.
d solo.
|
darth solo
|
Posted - 2004.12.31 11:45:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Joshua Calvert
Originally by: Lomithrandra
I like to think that in EVE, every setup has a counter setup.
The gankageddon is no exception.
They can be tanked, and they die very fast.
They can be jammed, and they die very fast.
They can be dampened, and they die very fast.
To an unprepared ship, they are very effective, but to a ship with either EW, or a suitable tank, they fall quickly.
I believe with the upcoming increased hitpoints, the leathality of the gankageddon will be reduced, as it has to chew through more tanked hitpoints, whilst still having nothing to defend itself with.
I don't really understand the final part - HP's are, on average, going to icnrease by the same amount on all ships while damage output is not.
Surely this means that a gankageddons lethality is not reduced but merely delayed.
think this means u will be able to close range in megas and tempests before he has the chance to blow u up... meaning not being able to hit while u chew him up.
d solo.
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Agentile
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Posted - 2004.12.31 12:13:00 -
[141]
Yes the Gankageddon's Fire power is very powerfull and yes against someone who is not prepared to fight one they can be deadly. With the + comes the -.
With a good tanking setup you would only need to last a few seconds before you would get through its defense and with a nice jamming setup its no contest. NOS would even take it down.
No need to whine about it, just prepare your ship with the essentials and fly on.
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Agentile
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Posted - 2004.12.31 12:13:00 -
[142]
Yes the Gankageddon's Fire power is very powerfull and yes against someone who is not prepared to fight one they can be deadly. With the + comes the -.
With a good tanking setup you would only need to last a few seconds before you would get through its defense and with a nice jamming setup its no contest. NOS would even take it down.
No need to whine about it, just prepare your ship with the essentials and fly on.
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Aequitas Veritas
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Posted - 2004.12.31 13:02:00 -
[143]
I think Moneta said it all, but changes doesnt have to be big. Increase their cap use a little bit (use to little compared to blasters etc), lower the damage done by the long range ammo and maybe lower the optimal some and it would be fine - No dramatic changes though... Some small changes on these area would give beams and tachyons a role for amarr ships again as they currently have none. I wouldnt want to change anything on the Geddon itself either beside maybe whats written below.
One thing that would be interesting to know is how the 10% cap reduction pr skill level is affecting megabeams and tachyons. Can they run the tank 24/7 with megabeams? Maybe the Amarr ship bonus could be lowered to 7.5% pr skill level instead of 10% as that would balance Amarr more compared to the other races.
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Aequitas Veritas
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Posted - 2004.12.31 13:02:00 -
[144]
I think Moneta said it all, but changes doesnt have to be big. Increase their cap use a little bit (use to little compared to blasters etc), lower the damage done by the long range ammo and maybe lower the optimal some and it would be fine - No dramatic changes though... Some small changes on these area would give beams and tachyons a role for amarr ships again as they currently have none. I wouldnt want to change anything on the Geddon itself either beside maybe whats written below.
One thing that would be interesting to know is how the 10% cap reduction pr skill level is affecting megabeams and tachyons. Can they run the tank 24/7 with megabeams? Maybe the Amarr ship bonus could be lowered to 7.5% pr skill level instead of 10% as that would balance Amarr more compared to the other races.
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RedClaws
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Posted - 2004.12.31 13:48:00 -
[145]
Edited by: RedClaws on 31/12/2004 13:48:32
Megapulses aren't so great ya know , if the target is at about 40km range and standing still its ok and can do a bit of damage but nothing compared to what torps can do.
If its closer then that and its moving at about 300m/s to the sides you can't even hit it.
A mega pulse isn't shortrange and it does crap damage so its not even comparable to those ion blasters.
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RedClaws
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Posted - 2004.12.31 13:48:00 -
[146]
Edited by: RedClaws on 31/12/2004 13:48:32
Megapulses aren't so great ya know , if the target is at about 40km range and standing still its ok and can do a bit of damage but nothing compared to what torps can do.
If its closer then that and its moving at about 300m/s to the sides you can't even hit it.
A mega pulse isn't shortrange and it does crap damage so its not even comparable to those ion blasters.
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1FSTCAT
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Posted - 2004.12.31 13:54:00 -
[147]
can we wait till they sort out the drones then we might see the dominix being overpowered
and the scorp has too many middle slots it must be overpowered as well
really after the projectiles get a work over the tier 1 and the drones get a slight tweak they should be pretty balanced
the other reason people use geddons is they are the nicest looking tier 1 battleship compaired to the Shoe and the pile of scrap called a typhoon
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1FSTCAT
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Posted - 2004.12.31 13:54:00 -
[148]
can we wait till they sort out the drones then we might see the dominix being overpowered
and the scorp has too many middle slots it must be overpowered as well
really after the projectiles get a work over the tier 1 and the drones get a slight tweak they should be pretty balanced
the other reason people use geddons is they are the nicest looking tier 1 battleship compaired to the Shoe and the pile of scrap called a typhoon
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Arekuwa
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Posted - 2004.12.31 14:02:00 -
[149]
Originally by: RedClaws
Edited by: RedClaws on 31/12/2004 13:48:32
Megapulses aren't so great ya know , if the target is at about 40km range and standing still its ok and can do a bit of damage but nothing compared to what torps can do.
If its closer then that and its moving at about 300m/s to the sides you can't even hit it.
A mega pulse isn't shortrange and it does crap damage so its not even comparable to those ion blasters.
LMAO.
Name one weapon which comes close to Megapulse in effectiveness at 15-20k range.
There is none.
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Arekuwa
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Posted - 2004.12.31 14:02:00 -
[150]
Originally by: RedClaws
Edited by: RedClaws on 31/12/2004 13:48:32
Megapulses aren't so great ya know , if the target is at about 40km range and standing still its ok and can do a bit of damage but nothing compared to what torps can do.
If its closer then that and its moving at about 300m/s to the sides you can't even hit it.
A mega pulse isn't shortrange and it does crap damage so its not even comparable to those ion blasters.
LMAO.
Name one weapon which comes close to Megapulse in effectiveness at 15-20k range.
There is none.
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Nafri
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Posted - 2004.12.31 14:43:00 -
[151]
Originally by: Arud
who in their right mind would use radio crystals??????
their excessive range comes from people who add radio crystals to the equation, but ofcorse that seriosly nerfs the damage.
Mega pulses are medium range guns, always have been, they should not be changed to short range guns since from the start thats not the amarr tactic.
uff yeah, but the damage is still pretty ok
getting hit from a short/medium range gun for 100 isnt that bad
Wanna fly with me?
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Nafri
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Posted - 2004.12.31 14:43:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Arud
who in their right mind would use radio crystals??????
their excessive range comes from people who add radio crystals to the equation, but ofcorse that seriosly nerfs the damage.
Mega pulses are medium range guns, always have been, they should not be changed to short range guns since from the start thats not the amarr tactic.
uff yeah, but the damage is still pretty ok
getting hit from a short/medium range gun for 100 isnt that bad
Wanna fly with me?
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Nafri
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Posted - 2004.12.31 14:46:00 -
[153]
Originally by: 1FSTCAT
can we wait till they sort out the drones then we might see the dominix being overpowered
and the scorp has too many middle slots it must be overpowered as well
really after the projectiles get a work over the tier 1 and the drones get a slight tweak they should be pretty balanced
the other reason people use geddons is they are the nicest looking tier 1 battleship compaired to the Shoe and the pile of scrap called a typhoon
rofl
thyphoon is obsolete in terms of doing damage
every BC is more fearsome in a bigger engament then a thyphoon
Scorp has it Role as EW plattform, buts it not able to kill any tanked ship at all
dominix has nearly no PvP use (execpt nosferix, but pretty special)
Geddon is the most used damage dealer ingame, and the hardest hitter, its optimal is just where most battles take place and even at 60km it can help out with decent damage
thyphoon got reduced to a cruiser and frig killer, when missles get changed thyphoon will be completly useless
Wanna fly with me?
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Nafri
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Posted - 2004.12.31 14:46:00 -
[154]
Originally by: 1FSTCAT
can we wait till they sort out the drones then we might see the dominix being overpowered
and the scorp has too many middle slots it must be overpowered as well
really after the projectiles get a work over the tier 1 and the drones get a slight tweak they should be pretty balanced
the other reason people use geddons is they are the nicest looking tier 1 battleship compaired to the Shoe and the pile of scrap called a typhoon
rofl
thyphoon is obsolete in terms of doing damage
every BC is more fearsome in a bigger engament then a thyphoon
Scorp has it Role as EW plattform, buts it not able to kill any tanked ship at all
dominix has nearly no PvP use (execpt nosferix, but pretty special)
Geddon is the most used damage dealer ingame, and the hardest hitter, its optimal is just where most battles take place and even at 60km it can help out with decent damage
thyphoon got reduced to a cruiser and frig killer, when missles get changed thyphoon will be completly useless
Wanna fly with me?
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Khristopher
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Posted - 2004.12.31 15:08:00 -
[155]
Edited by: Khristopher on 31/12/2004 15:09:33
Screw nerfs BUFF THE MEGATHRON! I really hate to see folks fav ships nerfed into being useless I went through that in Everquest (I was a monk). If something is out of balance (ravens geddons) then buff the other BS's (megathrons). :)
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Khristopher
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Posted - 2004.12.31 15:08:00 -
[156]
Edited by: Khristopher on 31/12/2004 15:09:33
Screw nerfs BUFF THE MEGATHRON! I really hate to see folks fav ships nerfed into being useless I went through that in Everquest (I was a monk). If something is out of balance (ravens geddons) then buff the other BS's (megathrons). :)
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slip66
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Posted - 2004.12.31 16:15:00 -
[157]
Originally by: Agentile
Yes the Gankageddon's Fire power is very powerfull and yes against someone who is not prepared to fight one they can be deadly. With the + comes the -.
With a good tanking setup you would only need to last a few seconds before you would get through its defense and with a nice jamming setup its no contest. NOS would even take it down.
No need to whine about it, just prepare your ship with the essentials and fly on.
you know this was the same arguements for the 2mwd raven and dual 100abs cruisers. You give up all defense, with slightly different tactics they could be killed... but everyone whined and they got killed off. SO i think ill whine and have this setup killed off too.
I thought you werent supposed to be able to stack damage mods with any real effect? I see gankas using 5-7 damage mods...
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slip66
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Posted - 2004.12.31 16:15:00 -
[158]
Originally by: Agentile
Yes the Gankageddon's Fire power is very powerfull and yes against someone who is not prepared to fight one they can be deadly. With the + comes the -.
With a good tanking setup you would only need to last a few seconds before you would get through its defense and with a nice jamming setup its no contest. NOS would even take it down.
No need to whine about it, just prepare your ship with the essentials and fly on.
you know this was the same arguements for the 2mwd raven and dual 100abs cruisers. You give up all defense, with slightly different tactics they could be killed... but everyone whined and they got killed off. SO i think ill whine and have this setup killed off too.
I thought you werent supposed to be able to stack damage mods with any real effect? I see gankas using 5-7 damage mods...
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unnamed hero
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Posted - 2004.12.31 17:16:00 -
[159]
damn whiners... fit em, 2x th hardener and laugh and watch arma die
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unnamed hero
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Posted - 2004.12.31 17:16:00 -
[160]
damn whiners... fit em, 2x th hardener and laugh and watch arma die
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Ithildin
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Posted - 2004.12.31 22:01:00 -
[161]
Originally by: unnamed hero
damn whiners... fit em, 2x th hardener and laugh and watch arma die
Theoretically, yes.
Practically you die anyway. Only difference most of the time is that it takes a few seconds longer and that you kill less as you go down. This from extensive testing.
--
If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please. |
Ithildin
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Posted - 2004.12.31 22:01:00 -
[162]
Originally by: unnamed hero
damn whiners... fit em, 2x th hardener and laugh and watch arma die
Theoretically, yes.
Practically you die anyway. Only difference most of the time is that it takes a few seconds longer and that you kill less as you go down. This from extensive testing.
--
If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please. |
Black 1
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Posted - 2005.01.01 02:20:00 -
[163]
Originally by: Wumpy
There messing up the game
There fire power @ most ranges is ridicilous.
no.
Everything is fine as it is - they loose defends for the dmg they cause and are easily killed so deal with it. If u are keep gettin wtfpwned by them then use one to wtfpwn the other
All BattleShips are fine as they are - all u need is the right skills to do the job and if u don't hav them train them.
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Lygos
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Posted - 2005.01.01 03:42:00 -
[164]
Personally I feel Amarr ships should be firmly established as the king of short range combat. The real long range stuff should be left to the minmatars. Caldari and Gallente ships get more play in the middle with their more complex setups.
As an Amarr I'm not a real big fan of the radio crystal in general. It just doesn't feel right. I made a long winded post about it here.
Have I been hammered by the long range geddon setup? Many, many times. It's a very popular ship for exactly that reason. It's a very practical choice. But I don't mind it for that reason. It just doesn't fit. With lovely armor, our purpose as amarr ship flyers should be to get up close and personal. It is of course troublesome to dictate distance, but that is mostly because combat is so damn rediculously brief. More HP is only one necessary variable in a host of factors in making combat last longer. Ships with high damage output just need the ability to sustain their damage to a degree proportionate to the new slower combat environment. The heavy tanks just need to be able to tank a equivalent low damage dealer's firepower. A heavy tank against a high damage vessel should merely be able to buy time against them. Ships don't need to do more damage to compensate, they just need to do damage more efficiently over time. CCP is smart though, I trust they'll figure it out no matter how much we complain.
Frigate versus frigate combat should last at least 2 minutes. Cruiser versus cruiser combat should last at least 4-6 minutes. And battleship versus battleship combat should last around 10 minutes. Give us some more quality entertainment time for the time we spend replacing them and many of us may be inclined to replace them more often.
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2005.01.01 05:34:00 -
[165]
Quote:
Frigate versus frigate combat should last at least 2 minutes. Cruiser versus cruiser combat should last at least 4-6 minutes. And battleship versus battleship combat should last around 10 minutes. Give us some more quality entertainment time for the time we spend replacing them and many of us may be inclined to replace them more often.
Why not lock each other hit the 'F' keys grab a newspaper, and take a dump? That's what I would do if it took 10 minutes to kill another battleship. =]
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Kaylona Tso
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Posted - 2005.01.01 06:49:00 -
[166]
Originally by: Lomithrandra
I like to think that in EVE, every setup has a counter setup.
The gankageddon is no exception.
They can be tanked, and they die very fast.
They can be jammed, and they die very fast.
They can be dampened, and they die very fast.
To an unprepared ship, they are very effective, but to a ship with either EW, or a suitable tank, they fall quickly.
I believe with the upcoming increased hitpoints, the leathality of the gankageddon will be reduced, as it has to chew through more tanked hitpoints, whilst still having nothing to defend itself with.
Lets all fly Scorpions like back in June/July 2003?
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MrMorph
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Posted - 2005.01.04 18:37:00 -
[167]
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
Possibly...Ill test that once i get the time.
24 hours later = 40% shield left....
Dont try this at home kids.
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Trishys cookies they are !
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MrMorph
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Posted - 2005.01.04 18:43:00 -
[168]
Well, reading 5 pages of whine and ****e.
I have a suggestion.
Why dont we just make all guns 1m optimal, no falloff. 1x dmg mod.
and 100 sec ROF.
That way, all u ******* tardflacks that whine one the ships you do
not use, can go about yr lives not having to worry about anyone shooting and doing any dmg unless u r doing 0m/s.
OMFG what a whine thread.
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Trishys cookies they are !
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