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Face Lifter
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Posted - 2004.12.30 19:30:00 -
[1]
People often ask about it, since the module description is unacceptably vague. Here's the formula:
(mod1*mod2*...*modn)^((1/n)^0.25)
where 'n' is the number of mods that effect that attribute.
Note that with this system, you get slightly more benefit from positive mods (like +11% damage) and slightly less from negative mods (like +10.5% rof).
+11% damage means multiplying weapon damage by 1.11
4 damage mods would give 1.518 multiplier, then the stacking penalty is applied to that. You can see it's more that simply 1.44
+10.5 to rate of fire is negative because it reduces firing delay, the multiplyer is 0.895. 4 of those give 0.641641050625, then stacking penalty is applied. Cap recharge mods are all negative.
Here's an example of stacking penalties. Imagine a mod that gives a 10% to something, they stack as follows:
2 positive mods: 17.385% vs 16.238% negative mods
3 positive mods: 24.266% vs 21.351% negative mods
4 positive mods: 30.941% vs 25.770% negative mods
5 positive mods: 37.532% vs 29.693% negative mods
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Face Lifter
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Posted - 2004.12.30 19:30:00 -
[2]
People often ask about it, since the module description is unacceptably vague. Here's the formula:
(mod1*mod2*...*modn)^((1/n)^0.25)
where 'n' is the number of mods that effect that attribute.
Note that with this system, you get slightly more benefit from positive mods (like +11% damage) and slightly less from negative mods (like +10.5% rof).
+11% damage means multiplying weapon damage by 1.11
4 damage mods would give 1.518 multiplier, then the stacking penalty is applied to that. You can see it's more that simply 1.44
+10.5 to rate of fire is negative because it reduces firing delay, the multiplyer is 0.895. 4 of those give 0.641641050625, then stacking penalty is applied. Cap recharge mods are all negative.
Here's an example of stacking penalties. Imagine a mod that gives a 10% to something, they stack as follows:
2 positive mods: 17.385% vs 16.238% negative mods
3 positive mods: 24.266% vs 21.351% negative mods
4 positive mods: 30.941% vs 25.770% negative mods
5 positive mods: 37.532% vs 29.693% negative mods
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Face Lifter
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Posted - 2004.12.30 19:30:00 -
[3]
People often ask about it, since the module description is unacceptably vague. Here's the formula:
(mod1*mod2*...*modn)^((1/n)^0.25)
where 'n' is the number of mods that effect that attribute.
Note that with this system, you get slightly more benefit from positive mods (like +11% damage) and slightly less from negative mods (like +10.5% rof).
+11% damage means multiplying weapon damage by 1.11
4 damage mods would give 1.518 multiplier, then the stacking penalty is applied to that. You can see it's more that simply 1.44
+10.5 to rate of fire is negative because it reduces firing delay, the multiplyer is 0.895. 4 of those give 0.641641050625, then stacking penalty is applied. Cap recharge mods are all negative.
Here's an example of stacking penalties. Imagine a mod that gives a 10% to something, they stack as follows:
2 positive mods: 17.385% vs 16.238% negative mods
3 positive mods: 24.266% vs 21.351% negative mods
4 positive mods: 30.941% vs 25.770% negative mods
5 positive mods: 37.532% vs 29.693% negative mods
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Def Antares
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Posted - 2004.12.30 20:27:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Def Antares on 30/12/2004 20:28:34
thx =)
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Def Antares
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Posted - 2004.12.30 20:27:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Def Antares on 30/12/2004 20:28:34
thx =)
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Def Antares
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Posted - 2004.12.30 20:27:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Def Antares on 30/12/2004 20:28:34
thx =)
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Farjung
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Posted - 2004.12.30 20:43:00 -
[7]
Minor correction: +11% damage would be multiplying weapon damage by 1.11, not 1.1. So 4 damage mods would give 1.11^4 = 1.5181 damage mod before stacking penalty, or 1.5181^(0.25^0.25) = 1.3434 once the stacking penalty's taken into account.
There's been two other topics relating to this in the past day, a stickied thread really ought to be made ¼_¼
Someone really needs to keep me away from the Taranis |
Farjung
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Posted - 2004.12.30 20:43:00 -
[8]
Minor correction: +11% damage would be multiplying weapon damage by 1.11, not 1.1. So 4 damage mods would give 1.11^4 = 1.5181 damage mod before stacking penalty, or 1.5181^(0.25^0.25) = 1.3434 once the stacking penalty's taken into account.
There's been two other topics relating to this in the past day, a stickied thread really ought to be made ¼_¼
Someone really needs to keep me away from the Taranis |
Farjung
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Posted - 2004.12.30 20:43:00 -
[9]
Minor correction: +11% damage would be multiplying weapon damage by 1.11, not 1.1. So 4 damage mods would give 1.11^4 = 1.5181 damage mod before stacking penalty, or 1.5181^(0.25^0.25) = 1.3434 once the stacking penalty's taken into account.
There's been two other topics relating to this in the past day, a stickied thread really ought to be made ¼_¼
Someone really needs to keep me away from the Taranis |
Face Lifter
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Posted - 2004.12.30 21:09:00 -
[10]
ok I corrected my mistake
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Face Lifter
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Posted - 2004.12.30 21:09:00 -
[11]
ok I corrected my mistake
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Face Lifter
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Posted - 2004.12.30 21:09:00 -
[12]
ok I corrected my mistake
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SwitchBl4d3
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Posted - 2004.12.31 17:09:00 -
[13]
STICKEH
"Teh lord of Nonni"
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SwitchBl4d3
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Posted - 2004.12.31 17:09:00 -
[14]
STICKEH
"Teh lord of Nonni"
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SwitchBl4d3
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Posted - 2004.12.31 17:09:00 -
[15]
STICKEH
"Teh lord of Nonni"
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nefiru
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Posted - 2005.03.09 15:53:00 -
[16]
hmm is this correct for shield hardners aswell?
fe 2 em hardners and an invulnerably hardner
thats (1.5*1.5*1.32)^((1/3)^0.25)
2.97^.7598 = 2.28
or hardning of 128 pct?
and second q for shield again :)
if you have fe base 40 pct resist in specific part
how do you put that pct in the calculation?
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Dust Puppy
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Posted - 2005.03.09 16:03:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Dust Puppy on 09/03/2005 16:08:28
Hey you stole my thread's name 
similar to what Face Lifter says but with pics
Edit: woops it was me that stole the name 
__________
Capacitor research |
Dust Puppy
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Posted - 2005.03.09 16:07:00 -
[18]
 Originally by: nefiru
hmm is this correct for shield hardners aswell?
fe 2 em hardners and an invulnerably hardner
thats (1.5*1.5*1.32)^((1/3)^0.25)
2.97^.7598 = 2.28
or hardning of 128 pct?
and second q for shield again :)
if you have fe base 40 pct resist in specific part
how do you put that pct in the calculation?
No what you do is you take the multiplier and with hardeners you are always looking at the damage that leaks through.
(0.5*0.5*0.68)^((1/3)^0.25) = 0.260 so the hardening you get for the combined hardners is 1-0.26 = 0.74 or 74%.
__________
Capacitor research |
James Lyrus
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Posted - 2005.03.09 17:02:00 -
[19]
So really it's not so much a penalty, as not having a geometric improvement. I can live with that.
I misunderstood the 'penalty' thing on first parse, and assumed it meant that I'd be worse off by having two.
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Beanz
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Posted - 2005.03.31 17:37:00 -
[20]
Confused!!
I have fitted one 50% EM hardener to my prophecy which has a standard EM armour resistance of 62%, and the total resistance only goes to 81%, shouldn't this give a true 50% boost and make it 93% total??
Also when i fit two 50% EM hardeners i get a total boost of 88%, but when using your equation i should be getting 68.83% extra boost, taking it to a total of 104.67%.
Am i calculating this wrong or is it not working right?
I have talked to other people and theirs are the same as mine, not just for prophecy's but other ship classes to.
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Alaria Wildman
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Posted - 2005.03.31 18:16:00 -
[21]
Beanz.. look here for hardener stacking a little more clearly.. in your case, pay particualr attention to the formula of how to apply the stacked hardening % after calculating it.Linkage
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Face Lifter
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Posted - 2005.03.31 18:18:00 -
[22]
shield and armor hardeners work in different way from other mods
all their percentages apply only on damage percentage you take in. In other words, if your armor EM resistance is 62, the damage percentage you take in is 100-62 = 38.
So in that case, a 50% harder would operate on 38%, which gives you extra 38*0.5 = 19% resistance.
Add the extra resistance boost to your natural resistance, you get 62+19 = 81%.
The way this system works makes hardener stacking penalty pretty bad, so in general stacking them is a bad idea unless you start very low natural resistance, 0% or 10% for example.
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Alaria Wildman
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Posted - 2005.03.31 18:21:00 -
[23]
question: is this the correct stacking equation for 3 shield boost amplifiers: (1.3*1.3*1.3)^(1/3^0.25)? I come out with a 81% bonus.. meaning each is giving a 27% bonus rather than a 30%.. deosn't seem much of a penalty.. please confirm i have worked this out right.. got a mean ass scorp setup in mind if I have... 
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Face Lifter
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Posted - 2005.03.31 18:26:00 -
[24]
that's not correct because every hardener operates on percentage of unresisted damage.
so if you have natural resistance of 0 and you add 2 of those hardeners, the first one will operate on 100%, the 2nd one will operate on what's left unresisted from the first one. So the resistance boost it adds becomes much smaller
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Alaria Wildman
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Posted - 2005.03.31 18:27:00 -
[25]
I wasn't talking about resistance increasing mods dude, was taliking about shield boost amplifiers..
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Face Lifter
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Posted - 2005.03.31 18:29:00 -
[26]
ah, sorry about that
you are right then, they stack normally
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Alaria Wildman
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Posted - 2005.03.31 18:30:00 -
[27]
These boost shield boosting, the standard ones by 30%.. assume the stacking would be similar to the "postive" dmg bonuses you talked about at the top of your post
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Alaria Wildman
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Posted - 2005.03.31 18:36:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Alaria Wildman on 31/03/2005 18:37:54
genereally, this post has been excellent :) thnx! would disagree about stacking hards being less worth it on higher natural resists tho.. although the resist number will go up by much less if you have a higher natural resist, you are still reducing the damage you take in that type just as much as if you had a low natural resist.. a 50% hard does exactly what it says.. reduces the dmg you take by 50% in that type.. the same is true of the % of stacked hards, which you work out with the stacking fromula given in the post i linked (derived from yours here, so thnx again :))... if u stack 3 50% hards of the same type, you get a 79.4% resist bonus.. this will still mean you take 79.4% less dmg of that type whether you apply it to a 10% natural resist or a 70% natural resist..
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Face Lifter
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Posted - 2005.03.31 18:47:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Face Lifter on 31/03/2005 18:48:07
I consider stacking hardeners a bad idea cause there are many other important modules you could fit in your med/low slots.
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Alaria Wildman
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Posted - 2005.03.31 20:18:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Alaria Wildman on 31/03/2005 20:20:02
Yes, you are right, absolutely  All depends on circumstance I guess.. recently I have spent much time out hunting big sansha rats in 0.0, and this has probably coloured my experience.. when you know for sure what dmg types your enemies are doing (for Sansha, it's EM and Thermal) then stacking is much more worth it. My query wasn't really questioning the wisdom or not of stacking in general, just the claim that it's less worth it if you have a high natural resist.. anyhoo.. it's all good
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