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Alara IonStorm
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2010.09.28 07:13:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Chribba muahahahaha
All your Veld won't buy you my sniper rifle!
It is Priceless!
-- Alara's Law!
As an online discussion on EVE ships grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving the Dominix approaches 1 |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.09.28 07:37:00 -
[92]
Edited by: Tippia on 28/09/2010 07:40:53
Originally by: Steve Thomas ok how the hell do you propose to have industiralists to suport you when most PvP corps cant be arsed to provide half way decent protection to there own industrial base? why the HELL do you think most real aliance 0.0 industrialists are in the npc corp in deep empire?
If true, because it helps.
They're still PvPers, though, by the very nature of being an industrialist, not carebears.
As for why it's stupidà care to explain why? Start by explaining why isn't PvP required, and then go on to why carebears are irreplaceable (in game terms ù I do understand that losing them would force CCP to cut down on their support for EVE, but that's a different matter).
edit: Or maybe I should make it clear what I mean here:
Carebears are expendable because they don't do anything the PvPers couldn't by (and aren't) doing by themselves. PvP in its various forms, on the other hand, is required to keep the game running. Without it, the market falls apart; advanced products are no longer made; ISK no longer serves a purpose; and the carebears no longer have anything useful to do or any tools to do it with. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.09.28 08:15:00 -
[93]
Edited by: Cipher Jones on 28/09/2010 08:18:44 this is not a double post.
When you say "fanboi" try to picture a fat man doing burlesque with 2 big ass fans that say CCP on one and HTFU on the other. Because that dude is me. |
Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.09.28 08:18:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 28/09/2010 07:40:53
Originally by: Steve Thomas ok how the hell do you propose to have industiralists to suport you when most PvP corps cant be arsed to provide half way decent protection to there own industrial base? why the HELL do you think most real aliance 0.0 industrialists are in the npc corp in deep empire?
If true, because it helps.
They're still PvPers, though, by the very nature of being an industrialist, not carebears.
As for why it's stupidà care to explain why? Start by explaining why isn't PvP required, and then go on to why carebears are irreplaceable (in game terms ù I do understand that losing them would force CCP to cut down on their support for EVE, but that's a different matter).
edit: Or maybe I should make it clear what I mean here:
Carebears are expendable because they don't do anything the PvPers couldn't by (and aren't) doing by themselves. PvP in its various forms, on the other hand, is required to keep the game running. Without it, the market falls apart; advanced products are no longer made; ISK no longer serves a purpose; and the carebears no longer have anything useful to do or any tools to do it with.
I thought acid was kinda hard to get these days? When you say "fanboi" try to picture a fat man doing burlesque with 2 big ass fans that say CCP on one and HTFU on the other. Because that dude is me. |
Buck Marui
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2010.09.28 08:24:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Tippia edit: Or maybe I should make it clear what I mean here:
Carebears are expendable because they don't do anything the PvPers couldn't by (and aren't) doing by themselves.
If the PvPers did it then they would become Carebears and so by your logic would be expendable... rinse and repeat. I don't buy into all this "you are a Carebeear because you..." crap, I don't even think the people who use these terms know where the lines are anymore.
Originally by: Alara IonStorm
Originally by: Chribba muahahahaha
All your Veld won't buy you my sniper rifle!
It is Priceless!
That's just... sad. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.09.28 08:50:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Buck Marui If the PvPers did it then they would become Carebears and so by your logic would be expendable.
No. "Carebear" is an attitude, not an activity. Hence the distinction between "carebear" and "industrialist".
Quote: I don't buy into all this "you are a Carebeear because you..." crap, I don't even think the people who use these terms know where the lines are anymore.
I can't really comment on said "crap" because I don't know what you imply with that ellipsis. Could you elaborate? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Buck Marui
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2010.09.28 09:12:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Tippia No. "Carebear" is an attitude, not an activity. Hence the distinction between "carebear" and "industrialist".
I see, so if two different people do the same thing, only one of them may be a "Carebear" judged by some kind of hidden meaning behind there motives... There motives I may add that are hidden to all but themselves.
Quote: I can't really comment on said "crap" because I don't know what you imply with that ellipsis. Could you elaborate?
What I mean by that is the stereotype of who or what is considered "Carebear" To me we all play EVE we are therefore EVE players, how you can justify labelling people in a sandbox is beyond me, I could do all the activities you consider "Carebear" one day and then go pirate the next, therefore I wouldn't fit into either categorization, or rather I would but it would change day to day making it meaningless.
Although, above you say "Carebear" is an attitude and I do not know what you would consider a "Carebear" attitude, so to you, I can imagine the above won't make sense. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.09.28 09:29:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Buck Marui I see, so if two different people do the same thing, only one of them may be a "Carebear" judged by some kind of hidden meaning behind there motives... There motives I may add that are hidden to all but themselves.
ànah, you can usually tell by the yelling.
Quote: What I mean by that is the stereotype of who or what is considered "Carebear" To me we all play EVE we are therefore EVE players, how you can justify labelling people in a sandbox is beyond me, I could do all the activities you consider "Carebear" one day and then go pirate the next, therefore I wouldn't fit into either categorization, or rather I would but it would change day to day making it meaningless.
Although, above you say "Carebear" is an attitude and I do not know what you would consider a "Carebear" attitude, so to you, I can imagine the above won't make sense.
It makes sense: you have no issues with risk, you know how to manage it, and might even revel in it. This attitude edges you away from the carebear camp.
The reason I bang on about the attitude is because of how it drives your perception of the game. There's a difference between building ships and building ships: do you just want to build stuff ù market be damned ù or do you want to build stuff, and if anyone competes with you, it's time to bust some heads? The former will make you want to turn EVE into a place where there is no way of disrupting your tinkering; the latter will make you want to turn EVE into a place where tinkering-disruption is not only possible, but nigh-on required to make ends meet (EVE, btw, while not quite as extreme, is set up very much in the spirit of the latter).
It's that competitive strand that makes the differenceà that PvP between people in the same market and after the same thing. The activity itself is of almost negligible importance ù it's whether or not you are (or are willing to) compete in the event in question that is the dividing factor. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.09.28 09:40:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 28/09/2010 07:40:53
Originally by: Steve Thomas ok how the hell do you propose to have industiralists to suport you when most PvP corps cant be arsed to provide half way decent protection to there own industrial base? why the HELL do you think most real aliance 0.0 industrialists are in the npc corp in deep empire?
If true, because it helps.
They're still PvPers, though, by the very nature of being an industrialist, not carebears.
As for why it's stupidà care to explain why? Start by explaining why isn't PvP required, and then go on to why carebears are irreplaceable (in game terms ù I do understand that losing them would force CCP to cut down on their support for EVE, but that's a different matter).
edit: Or maybe I should make it clear what I mean here:
Carebears are expendable because they don't do anything the PvPers couldn't by (and aren't) doing by themselves. PvP in its various forms, on the other hand, is required to keep the game running. Without it, the market falls apart; advanced products are no longer made; ISK no longer serves a purpose; and the carebears no longer have anything useful to do or any tools to do it with.
"As for why it's stupid... care to explain why?"
Even if it was not my post, it is fairly easy to explain why:
a) you really think that the large percentage of PvPers that find too boring guarding the members of their alliance when they mine in the alliance territory will have any interest in doing what the "expended" carebears are not doing, i.e. mining? I really doubt that;
b) as the job of providing minerals for the industrialist will fall on the shoulder of a small minority of the PvPers that are willing to mine, you really think that they could keep up the production to the level needed to keep the "combat only" PvPepers supplied with the ship they want at the prices they want (i.e. as cheap as possible, 0 cost is even better)? Again, I really doubt that.
So, yes PvPers can cover a lack of industrialist building stuff but they will have serious difficulties covering a lack of people mining. From what I gather from these forum and some experience in 0.0 space, barring the RMT cartels, the largest users of bots are alts of PvPers that don't care to spend "real player time" mining, not the carebears that manage fleet of hulks in high sec alt tabbing between the accounts.
BTW, if I recall well the percentage of ship losses is about 55-60% from PvP, 40-45% from PvE. I will see if I can find the reference later.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.09.28 09:46:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Venkul Mul BTW, if I recall well the percentage of ship losses is about 55-60% from PvP, 40-45% from PvE. I will see if I can find the reference later.
Latest QEN. I can't recall it it offered any numbers on the value of the ships lost, thoughà
I'll get back to the rest of your post after lunch. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
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thatbloke
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.09.28 13:05:00 -
[101]
so let's say that the belts didn't spawn at all for, say, the next week.
Would all of the stockpiled Ore/Minerals that people had be enough to sustain the current rate of development? Would people still be able to continue doing what they do on those stockpiles?
I assume that the price of any existing ore would go up, and it would probably cause a massive collapse of the economy, with utter chaos remaining!
muahahaha
Originally by: CCP Shadow I think we'd be better off with a troll shard.
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mechtech
SRS Industries SRS.
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Posted - 2010.09.28 13:11:00 -
[102]
Originally by: thatbloke so let's say that the belts didn't spawn at all for, say, the next week.
Would all of the stockpiled Ore/Minerals that people had be enough to sustain the current rate of development? Would people still be able to continue doing what they do on those stockpiles?
I assume that the price of any existing ore would go up, and it would probably cause a massive collapse of the economy, with utter chaos remaining!
muahahaha
Stockpiles would support the economy. If it was apparent that the belts would be down for at least a few days, market manipulators would start the ball rolling by buying all low priced ore. Then a thread on MD would pick up, and the bandwagon effect would shoot up mineral prices until the belts return, making great profit for the ones that got in early.
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2010.09.28 13:37:00 -
[103]
Cant believe they still didnt comment on this..yeah ccp is really involved stick.So much involvement that it gave me whiplashWhat 3 days now and no comment?Fail at its best if you ask me.
I think miners should strike for like two weeks or a month..make the prices explode.Then maybe the pvpers will see how much your worth when they pay double for their ships.
Miners wont even take a loss because the ore prises will make up for it..just a matter of getting everyone to do it.
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Mashie Saldana
Minmatar Veto Corp
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Posted - 2010.09.28 15:29:00 -
[104]
Originally by: HeIIfire11 Then maybe the pvpers will see how much your worth when they pay double for their ships.
Mmm, because T2 ships are so affected by mineral prices...
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2010.09.28 15:36:00 -
[105]
Carebear is the equivalent of camper if FPS games. It's an insult kids use when they're ****y you don't make yourself an easy kill for them.
My Warmest Regards. Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
Jack Coutu
Gallente ANZAC ALLIANCE IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.09.28 16:28:00 -
[106]
Originally by: HeIIfire11 Cant believe they still didnt comment on this..yeah ccp is really involved stick.So much involvement that it gave me whiplashWhat 3 days now and no comment?Fail at its best if you ask me.
I think miners should strike for like two weeks or a month..make the prices explode.Then maybe the pvpers will see how much your worth when they pay double for their ships.
Miners wont even take a loss because the ore prises will make up for it..just a matter of getting everyone to do it.
You are really the lowest rung of the ladder in the game buddy, don't think for a second that if all you ******s stopped mining that it'd mean anything for anyone.
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.09.28 16:31:00 -
[107]
So, I think I've read every post and no one mentioned yet...
Ahh, the belts dont respawn everyday. They regen daily and respawn on certain days depending on the system.
Nothing has changed. When you say "fanboi" try to picture a fat man doing burlesque with 2 big ass fans that say CCP on one and HTFU on the other. Because that dude is me. |
HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2010.09.28 16:39:00 -
[108]
Edited by: HeIIfire11 on 28/09/2010 16:41:53
Originally by: Jack Coutu
Originally by: HeIIfire11 Cant believe they still didnt comment on this..yeah ccp is really involved stick.So much involvement that it gave me whiplashWhat 3 days now and no comment?Fail at its best if you ask me.
I think miners should strike for like two weeks or a month..make the prices explode.Then maybe the pvpers will see how much your worth when they pay double for their ships.
Miners wont even take a loss because the ore prises will make up for it..just a matter of getting everyone to do it.
You are really the lowest rung of the ladder in the game buddy, don't think for a second that if all you ******s stopped mining that it'd mean anything for anyone.
No..it gets lower.Like **** talking egoists such as yourself..buddy.Your fail troll attempt means nothing to anyone,u mad?
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Barakkus
Caelestis Iudicium
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Posted - 2010.09.28 16:54:00 -
[109]
Originally by: HeIIfire11 Edited by: HeIIfire11 on 28/09/2010 16:41:53
Originally by: Jack Coutu
Originally by: HeIIfire11 Cant believe they still didnt comment on this..yeah ccp is really involved stick.So much involvement that it gave me whiplashWhat 3 days now and no comment?Fail at its best if you ask me.
I think miners should strike for like two weeks or a month..make the prices explode.Then maybe the pvpers will see how much your worth when they pay double for their ships.
Miners wont even take a loss because the ore prises will make up for it..just a matter of getting everyone to do it.
You are really the lowest rung of the ladder in the game buddy, don't think for a second that if all you ******s stopped mining that it'd mean anything for anyone.
No..it gets lower.Like **** talking egoists such as yourself..buddy.Your fail troll attempt means nothing to anyone,u mad?
You would have to strike for years to make even a small impact on the economy.
Tons of people that aren't professional miners are sitting on a **** ton of minerals, any strike would mean absolutely nothing, plus you'd never get everyone outside of empire to strike, contrary to popular belief, empire ore doesn't make the eve universe go around.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.09.28 17:06:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Serpents smile
Originally by: SamHouston yep, no respawn whatsoever
That's it man, game over man, game over! What the **** are we gonna do now? What are we gonna do?
Get day job. Work an hour. Buy a plex. Have more hours to do fun stuff.
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ImCoolerThanYou
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Posted - 2010.09.28 17:14:00 -
[111]
The Sansha Nation gathered all the resources from the system you were in for our own use.
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2010.09.28 17:34:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Barakkus You would have to strike for years to make even a small impact on the economy.
Tons of people that aren't professional miners are sitting on a **** ton of minerals, any strike would mean absolutely nothing, plus you'd never get everyone outside of empire to strike, contrary to popular belief, empire ore doesn't make the eve universe go around.
Oh my god..I was talking smack.You really think you can get any strike going here?I really dont care for the market at all.I often pay a lot more for stuff just because Im too lazy to make 2 jumps.I could care less.If I need isk Ill buy a plex because I have a job and laugh at the few bucks.Everyone else does.
I dont mine either so I could care less what spawns or doesnt.I just think its funny how some people get on this "oh im a pvper"high and mighty trip.Get a life losers..every other online game is pvp and requires a lot more reflex and skill to play.Eve is about numbers and a bit of experience..thats it.Ship fittings are posted all over the net..no skill there.Also no skill in sitting at a gate all day and pressing a button or two when a little square pops up on a list.And having a lot of skill points shows you can wait..nothing more.
A carebear does nothing less..so get over yourselves.And troll as much as you like because I could care less what some random pixel person says on some random forum.
The fact that its denied that carebears play a role in this game shows nothing but ignorance.
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rekcuf bmuD
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Posted - 2010.09.28 18:05:00 -
[113]
Originally by: HeIIfire11 Edited by: HeIIfire11 on 28/09/2010 17:58:44
Originally by: Barakkus You would have to strike for years to make even a small impact on the economy.
Tons of people that aren't professional miners are sitting on a **** ton of minerals, any strike would mean absolutely nothing, plus you'd never get everyone outside of empire to strike, contrary to popular belief, empire ore doesn't make the eve universe go around.
@Barakkus.. Oh my god..I was talking smack.You really think you can get any strike going here?I really dont care for the market at all.I often pay a lot more for stuff just because Im too lazy to make 2 jumps.I could care less.If I need isk Ill buy a plex because I have a job and laugh at the few bucks.Everyone else does.
@the rest.. I dont mine either so I could care less what spawns or doesnt.I just think its funny how some people get on this "oh im a pvper"high and mighty trip.Get a life losers..every other online game is pvp and requires a lot more reflex and skill to play.Eve is about numbers and a bit of experience..thats it.Ship fittings are posted all over the net..no skill there.Also no skill in sitting at a gate all day and pressing a button or two when a little square pops up on a list.And having a lot of skill points shows you can wait..nothing more.
A carebear does nothing less..so get over yourselves.And troll as much as you like because I could care less what some random pixel person says on some random forum.
The fact that its denied that carebears play a role in this game shows nothing but ignorance.
So this is a lie?
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2010.09.28 18:11:00 -
[114]
Originally by: rekcuf bmuD So this is a lie?
lol Eve is easy to learn..its keeping peoples interest through out the ever lasting time sinks that causes people to gtfo.
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.09.28 19:37:00 -
[115]
Edited by: Steve Thomas on 28/09/2010 19:38:40
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Buck Marui If the PvPers did it then they would become Carebears and so by your logic would be expendable.
No. "Carebear" is an attitude, not an activity. Hence the distinction between "carebear" and "industrialist".
Quote: I don't buy into all this "you are a Carebeear because you..." crap, I don't even think the people who use these terms know where the lines are anymore.
I can't really comment on said "crap" because I don't know what you imply with that ellipsis. Could you elaborate?
Cluless troll is totaly cluless Troll
Ok heres your final clue
If you are an industrialist, you will never waist a second doing pvp
why?
because you will be doing R&D jobs and Production jobs and trying to balance inventory and handling contracts and orders for incomeing minerals and moongoo and planet poo and space gas(to be honest I started calling the damned stuff space farts long ago but meh) and three diferent flavors of salvaged garbage.
You will be runing spread sheets and running missions to get faction needed for things you need to have decent faction standing to do,
You will be spending >90% of your remaining game time (when your not grinding faction agents) every day docked, and any second your not docked or grinding rep, your probably going to be spending in a freightor listening to half your corp bellyakeing about having to babysit your worthless carebear ass because if they did not babysit your worthless ass they would be in newbi frigates by the end of next month because between the lot of them they could probably manage to build half of a battlecruiser a month because "salvaging/looting is boreing" and "Mining Sucks" (never mind the reality that most of the time they franky seem to be doing nothing but hanging around some random solar system semi afk while they watch football and ***** about how the looser team of the week is nothing more than a second rate "Peewee" team) That is if your not stuck in a Mining hull mining because virtualy noone else wants to do "Carebear crap"
oh and if you take time away from doing "that carebear crap" and spend your time hanging out in the middle of nowhere pretending your seriously PvPing along with the rest of the corp in mostly empty space only to pop the odd stray who manages to show up in your system (odds are someone who just came back from a 3+ month "vacation" from eve and did not realise that there corp or aliance moved out of the system and or did and tried to make a run for it). . . only to be yelled at because your not keeping up with the Indistural stuff they need you to do so they can be PvP wanabees.
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* a (Long) Guide to Pi
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Tarikla
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Posted - 2010.09.28 20:17:00 -
[116]
i'm just responding to guys who thinks that Carebears are not important for PvPers :
You're wrong . I could just say that and go away , like you did when you say "Carebears are the low end of Eve People" or something like that . But i'll explain my point .
So , who's buying expensive faction/deadspace/officier Modules and Ships and Implants (except the Angels line of ship) ? The Carebears . You will NEVER EVER see a PvP fit with this kind of stuff who's actually mainly come from 0.0 . It's the Carebears who are injecting massive amounts of money into the PvPers and grant them to keep shooting at other and loose their ships .
Also , who's keep the minerals market with constant influx of minerals , so their price don't go crazy and make the T1 ships that many PvPers use because it's cheap stay cheap ? The Carebears .
Also , why almost every PvPers i know have at least one alt who's running mission or other Carebears Activities ? Because it's where the ISK is . It's what keep running all of the PvPers of Eve .
You remove the Carebears , you remove the PvP because ships will have their price 10/20/more times more than today . And with that price , you're not willing to lose your ship every day .
Just face it . The Carebears rules Eve . I know it's hard to you to accept that , but you have to .
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LHA Tarawa
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Posted - 2010.09.28 20:17:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Orange Lagomorph Hiding the belts won't work. Macro miners will manually locate the belts after each downtime, which will probably inconvenience them, but won't be anything remotely like a deterrent.
Smallish belts (a single hulk could mine it out in an hour or so), that respawn in the same system as soon as they are emptied, so you have to scan down the new belt.
Yes, you could scan down the belt, then turn on your macro.. but that gets you about an hour (unless someone else shows up to mine, then you get less than an hour) before you have to scan down the next.
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Alara IonStorm
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2010.09.28 20:56:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Buck Marui
Originally by: Alara IonStorm
Originally by: Chribba muahahahaha
All your Veld won't buy you my sniper rifle!
It is Priceless!
That's just... sad.
You are obviously just jealous. Because even my snipes contain more useful information then your posts!
But thats ok, take comfort that I feel sorry you!
-- Alara's Law!
As an online discussion on EVE ships grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving the Dominix approaches 1 |
Gettin Money
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Posted - 2010.09.29 05:59:00 -
[119]
OI, where be my roids... so what is the respawn rate on them now.. i havnt seen any rocks in my system for 2 days now, this is rediculous.. i'm stuck back in a mackinaw extracting ice blocks :(
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IcMoney
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Posted - 2010.09.29 06:01:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Gettin Money OI, where be my roids... so what is the respawn rate on them now.. i havnt seen any rocks in my system for 2 days now, this is rediculous.. i'm stuck back in a mackinaw extracting ice blocks :(
pshhh u wish you could fly a mackinaw
lol, posted with wrong character
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