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Calypsa Aeurelieus	Posted - 2010.10.08 19:00:00 - [1] Hello Everyone, I've been slightly active on the forums, and have just in the past few months been able to return to EVE. I'm looking to get into auditing on a moderate basis (Still want some time to play my precious EVE). I know that there is a high demand for auditors, and a relatively low number of auditors out there due to both the nature of the work and such. I am more than happy to provide a small or large audit, I'm just looking to get my feet wet in the EVE world of auditing. So again I state, no audit is too small and I know that in order to build reputation it will take time. Which is something I do happen to have. (My day job networking coordination allows me quite some time during the day in which I can't necessarily be playing eve but could deff. be doing something productive that is EVE oriented. Please feel free to leave your comments, good or bad I intend to roll with the punches. Thanks for taking the time to read this. Regards Calypsa
Investment Grade	Posted - 2010.10.08 20:36:00 - [2] Hello, what qualifications and experience do you have?
Calypsa Aeurelieus	Posted - 2010.10.08 20:46:00 - [3] Edited by: Calypsa Aeurelieus on 08/10/2010 20:52:37 - Degrees In Accounting & Business Management - Perform Accountancy Work For 5 Small Business IRL - As far as un-official qualifications I love to crunch numbers and have been thinking about a way to become more involved with the MD community as I don't personally offer IPO's for my corporation, and this seemed like a good fit. - As far as EVE auditing goes I have never done an official audit for anyone/corporation/alliance outside of doing it for various corporations I either own or have friends in. That is why in your thread I mentioned that you may want to make sure that you have MD support for me doing that audit since I'm a no - name in the auditing world. I look forward to helping out whoever I can whether it's a 100m or 100b bond/IPO/etc. But would understand if I'm turned away from the larger bonds until I am more established.
SetrakDark Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.10.08 20:53:00 - [4] lol scam i'll let some rookie forum warriors connect the dots i cant even be bothered anymore
cosmoray Cosmoray Holdings Corp	Posted - 2010.10.08 20:55:00 - [5] I thought your RL experience is in web site design?? That is the business/service you were offering on September 20th. Would you like to also talk about your other successful business ventures in Eve or shall I just say SCAM.
Calypsa Aeurelieus	Posted - 2010.10.08 21:02:00 - [6] I do web design, and I'm a network coordinator as a primary profession due to the extremely poor economy. I have no problem not doing this audit or any audit at the MD's request. Just because someone has multiple facets that they can perform does not mean Scam. My website service is just that, a website service. I'm currently beginning work on: www.vindicator.us My corp's website is www.theriptide.net Again as I said I figured that since the bond in question is a decently large sum I would more than likely be turned down for the audit. I would be happy to do an audit alongside someone who has done more EVE audits and then at the conclusion both of us can display our findings and hopefully mine will be congruement with the more established auditor(s). I understand that there is no way to presume I am not associated with anyone else, but all I can do is offer full disclosure. Web design and the like are a hobby of mine. Auditing in EVE was something I was hoping to get into.. though I see how quite poor my timing was since as I was writing amy post semi-afk at work there was a post about looking for an auditor. I will decline to do this audit right now because I do not want to be labled a scammer. However if a more well known auditor would be willing to do a side by side audit (I'd do my for free so the bond issuer wouldn't incur double fees) I would be happy to do an audit and then at the conclusion we both reveal our findings and hopefully that can start to establish some credibility. I'm not looking for handouts and I can roll with the punches but I do hope that eventually I'll start making progress with a reputation.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.10.08 21:53:00 - [7] Quote: I'm not looking for handouts and I can roll with the punches but I do hope that eventually I'll start making progress with a reputation. Reputation should be your last concern. The last months all I read is "grind reputation" "grind reputation" "grind reputation" like someone gives a toss about it. Start doing. The others will flood you with reputation. As it should be. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Slutz	Posted - 2010.10.08 22:04:00 - [8] If your audits are anything like your web design, I wouldn't hire you.
Breaker77 Gallente Reclamation Industries	Posted - 2010.10.08 22:15:00 - [9] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Start doing. The others will flood you with reputation. As it should be. This TBH It's amazing how just being active and knowledgeable matters.
Calypsa Aeurelieus	Posted - 2010.10.08 22:38:00 - [10] I said that I "worked" on some of those sites. I didn't do all of the CSS and formatting and such. I had a lot to do with the auction site though. Well enough said about the reputation, and I suppose you are right. I was looking for another term but I guess what you said about being active and knowledgeable is about right on the dot. I won't respond to negative comments that aren't constructive criticism because I don't see the need to gratify people who choose to make derogatory statements. Especially from someone with an eloquent name such as "****z"
Ren Nekk Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2010.10.08 22:54:00 - [11] Originally by: Calypsa Aeurelieus I won't respond to negative comments that aren't constructive criticism because I don't see the need to gratify people who choose to make derogatory statements. Especially from someone with an eloquent name such as "****z" Uh oh. Another one of these...
Calypsa Aeurelieus	Posted - 2010.10.08 22:57:00 - [12] :) Well I don't see any reason to feed the trolls. I've already offered to do an audit side by side with an "Experienced" EVE auditor to prove I can put out an on par audit. Pending the conclusions of something like that I don't see the need to respond to a one-liner.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.10.08 23:03:00 - [13] Originally by: Calypsa Aeurelieus :) Well I don't see any reason to feed the trolls. I've already offered to do an audit side by side with an "Experienced" EVE auditor to prove I can put out an on par audit. Pending the conclusions of something like that I don't see the need to respond to a one-liner. 1) What is the easy to spot business plan "issue" with the Jump Freighters investment? 2) Would you hold 200k Technetium as collateral? 3) In order to demostrate his NAV is compatible with his bond, an investee states he owns 4 BPOs worth 2B each. How do you prove that for him? - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Investment Grade	Posted - 2010.10.08 23:06:00 - [14] I think I would have to decline your offer at the moment, as you have seen everything on MD is reputation. I have post graduate qualifications in business and accountancy, doing the maths isn't a problem. Presenting an acceptable audit to the MD community is. If you can get an experienced Eve Auditor to work with you that I can verify on the forums and is acceptable to MD then you can have a go at my Bond offering once I am ready to present.
Calypsa Aeurelieus	Posted - 2010.10.08 23:20:00 - [15] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha 1) What is the easy to spot business plan "issue" with the Jump Freighters investment? 2) Would you hold 200k Technetium as collateral? 3) In order to demostrate his NAV is compatible with his bond, an investee states he owns 4 BPOs worth 2B each. How do you prove that for him? 1) The fact that Jump Freighters are a expensive production, mid rate return, and low movement item. 2) 200k Technetium is approx 16bil worth of ISK @ median market values over the past 360 hours. Since the Bond is for 8-10b as per the Bond Issuer's initial posting, one would presume this would be sufficient collateral. Though I would surely not hold it as I'm not a third party :) 3) API assets checking to see if he does indeed own said items.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.10.08 23:30:00 - [16] Originally by: Calypsa Aeurelieus Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha 1) What is the easy to spot business plan "issue" with the Jump Freighters investment? 2) Would you hold 200k Technetium as collateral? 3) In order to demostrate his NAV is compatible with his bond, an investee states he owns 4 BPOs worth 2B each. How do you prove that for him? 1) The fact that Jump Freighters are a expensive production, mid rate return, and low movement item. 2) 200k Technetium is approx 16bil worth of ISK @ median market values over the past 360 hours. Since the Bond is for 8-10b as per the Bond Issuer's initial posting, one would presume this would be sufficient collateral. Though I would surely not hold it as I'm not a third party :) 3) API assets checking to see if he does indeed own said items. 1) Look at the daily volume, even in Jita. It's an easy to saturate market, then ROI drops sensibly. 2) Technetium is under speculative focus. It's hot ATM and price is uncertain. Exactly not the best or safest thing to freeze in a station for the duration of a bond. 3) API assets don't reveal whether a BP is a BPC or a BPO, so no. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Calypsa Aeurelieus	Posted - 2010.10.08 23:35:00 - [17] 1) As I said, with that type of item your return isn't always going to be a fast turn around. 2) Although it is a speculative item, the amount you rendered was (At current values) Up to 200% of what the Bond Issuance was. I don't see the market crashing that hard in that time period. 3) My apologies for lack of clarity. A simple contract test would show whether it was a BPO or BPC (EG: Issuer makes contract for amount that obviously won't be accepted privately to the auditor to show he's in possession of them)
Investment Grade	Posted - 2010.10.08 23:35:00 - [18] In defence of jump freighters they are low movement but there are currently 8 buy orders at good margins in Jita on Rheas alone. The plan also mentions building across all four races so would end up putting 2 per race per month onto the market (selling to buy orders). I think the chance of my flooding the market would be minimal, especially as I wouldn't build if there wasn't any demand.
Thoraemond Minmatar Far Ranger	Posted - 2010.10.08 23:39:00 - [19] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha API assets don't reveal whether a BP is a BPC or a BPO, so no. Generally, aye; but if you saw a stack of four blueprints, you would know that they are still-packaged, un-used BPOs because instantiated items (used BPOs, all BPCs) cannot be stacked, right? á á
Calypsa Aeurelieus	Posted - 2010.10.08 23:41:00 - [20] To my knowledge that is correct as well Thor.
Hel O'Ween Men On A Mission	Posted - 2010.10.09 02:51:00 - [21] You can (ab)use the IndustryJobs API to differentiate between BPOs and BPCs, but that requires that the item is "in production" and not just sitting in a hangar somewhere. -- EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager
Calypsa Aeurelieus	Posted - 2010.10.09 03:02:00 - [22] Really? Didn't know that, any specific things you have to do?
Markus Richter Cold Fusion Technology	Posted - 2010.10.09 03:03:00 - [23] Originally by: Hel O'Ween You can (ab)use the IndustryJobs API to differentiate between BPOs and BPCs, but that requires that the item is "in production" and not just sitting in a hangar somewhere. So there is a way to crossreference the itemID from the asset api with the installedItemID from industry api?
SetrakDark Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.10.09 03:09:00 - [24] Really? No one's taken the 2 minutes required to nuke this whole thing? Shameful.
Gabriel Virtus hirr	Posted - 2010.10.09 03:12:00 - [25] Would you be willing to publicly list your full api info? -GV
Calypsa Aeurelieus	Posted - 2010.10.09 03:15:00 - [26] GV, Yes I would be willing to. My alt is actually invested in your current "Trollin' EVE" Bond :)
Gabriel Virtus hirr	Posted - 2010.10.09 03:17:00 - [27] Edited by: Gabriel Virtus on 09/10/2010 03:18:09 Originally by: Calypsa Aeurelieus GV, Yes I would be willing to. My alt is actually invested in your current "Trollin' EVE" Bond :) Well then, we already know that you must be quite smart :) -GV edit: I am waiting for VV to publicly list her full api info. I doubt she ever will even though she has literally nothing to hide - supposedly.
Calypsa Aeurelieus	Posted - 2010.10.09 03:19:00 - [28] lol @ That. Honestly I have some reasons I wouldn't want full disclosure (Mainly some assets that if their locations were known could cause compromising issues to the maintaining of those assets without more security :) )
egola	Posted - 2010.10.09 03:48:00 - [29] well perhaps there are a few people who want to do station trading and doesn't mind their market orders being viewed at? (probably with competition) i can see how some people might benefit from auditing although not so much if you don't already have a name built up for yourself, i can see how its a vicious cycle though
eliaja	Posted - 2010.10.09 07:31:00 - [30] oh how can i put this with out making the elite upset. frak them an there oppinions. if you want a rep grind for the work. let your work speak for itself. once enough people can vouch for you md postings will just be cake. personally i think most of the auditors if not all are scam artist an are better at it remember ebank & dbank. an bet alll ofthem will say that they never vouched for it at best they say they preached caution lol.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.10.09 08:35:00 - [31] Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 09/10/2010 08:38:44 Quote: Generally, aye; but if you saw a stack of four blueprints, you would know that they are still-packaged, un-used BPOs because instantiated items (used BPOs, all BPCs) cannot be stacked, right? This is one of the ways to do so (there are others not shown in this thread) but in my EvE life it has never happened to have an investee have a 4 x 2B (each) BPOs stack (the ones I mentioned), so it's less of a practical way than the others. Quote: I am waiting for VV to publicly list her full api info. I doubt she ever will even though she has literally nothing to hide - supposedly. I have a lot to hide expecially to CAOD grade people: - my customer(s) collateral location. It'd also heavily impact on my NAV so ATM calculating it would be quite pointless. - my assets location including my research services facilities. - my stuff in 0.0. It should be not relevant by now but who knows, you are but one of a zillion reds posting here. - my large number of emails off people who would not take it kindly if API would allow (see CCP blogs) even to just fetch their main's name so you wardec them or whatever. Actually if you were anything better than a short memory troll, you'd recall the previous threads exactly on this same matter. If you put the money for that, I'll gladly try and get an audit done by the only people in game who could assure me enough with their pristine integrity to not give away my customers identities / assets / everything. Of couse it'll be worthless, since my customers assets would inficiate the results, but you seem so miffed at something that it could help placate your itches. Quote: personally i think most of the auditors if not all are scam artist an are better at it remember ebank & dbank. There is (sadly) _1_ auditor ATM which is me and I dare, challenge and even bet against you about you managing to find record of mine supporting EBANK in "unsuspicious times before their crack". Which is kind of sad because I really appreciated Athre's (in many respects) and even Hexxx's MD works. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
RAW23	Posted - 2010.10.09 08:41:00 - [32] Originally by: SetrakDark Really? No one's taken the 2 minutes required to nuke this whole thing? Shameful. Withholding relevant information? Shameful.
Gabriel Virtus hirr	Posted - 2010.10.09 09:05:00 - [33] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha I have a lot to hide expecially to CAOD grade people: - my customer(s) collateral location. It'd also heavily impact on my NAV so ATM calculating it would be quite pointless. - my assets location including my research services facilities. - my stuff in 0.0. It should be not relevant by now but who knows, you are but one of a zillion reds posting here. - my large number of emails off people who would not take it kindly if API would allow (see CCP blogs) even to just fetch their main's name so you wardec them or whatever. I bet you do. You see no similarities with these claims as they relate to the people you berate on a daily basis with exactly the same claims? Aside from the research facilities (if they are in space) these are all easily dealth with. Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Actually if you were anything better than a short memory troll, you'd recall the previous threads exactly on this same matter. If you put the money for that, I'll gladly try and get an audit done by the only people in game who could assure me enough with their pristine integrity to not give away my customers identities / assets / everything. Convenient... again, you see no similarities with anything you criticize? Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha There is (sadly) _1_ auditor ATM which is me and I dare, challenge and even bet against you about you managing to find record of mine supporting EBANK in "unsuspicious times before their crack". Which is kind of sad because I really appreciated Athre's (in many respects) and even Hexxx's MD works. If I were you, I would challenge every new auditor without relent for being in the exact same situation you were in about a year ago. Auditors have to start somewhere and the "trust" issue that many posters are speaking about is the same with all auditors. There is little difference between the two of you; you have been doing it longer. You can claim anything you want, it doesn't matter, because all those claims are unsubstantiated just like all of this prospective new auditors claims are unsubstantiated. VV, I challege you to simply think for an hour before you post in response to this. -GV
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.10.09 10:24:00 - [34] Quote: I bet you do. You see no similarities with these claims as they relate to the people you berate on a daily basis with exactly the same claims The similarities are only apparent. With what face can I throw away information about 3rd parties who chose me exactly because I MUST keep their values private? If it was just for my things, the only stuff of any value is a POS, I could not care the less to tell you about my 3 Maelstroms, 1 freighter (I had 3 in the past) and capital BPOs, some hurricanes, 2 hulks, a number of Rifters and some other assorted crap and also where they are (all around Gallente and Minmatar space). My 0.0 stuff has been all sold except some crap in 5J. Go kill it. Quote: Convenient... again, you see no similarities with anything you criticize? No, I don't. Because toss the other auditor money / ask the auditing fund to do so and he audits me and I have NO issues with that. The only difficulty would be to convince him getting back to the job. If there were similarities YOU would not have had any issue as well. But you have issues and you are the one who wants public money in your investment, so the similarities are not here. Quote: If I were you, I would challenge every new auditor without relent for being in the exact same situation you were in about a year ago. ... where I was called: - scammer alt - member of SCC circle jerk - not trusted even doing free audits - flamed by prominent members of EBANK when it was "Elite" and whatever Quote: There is little difference between the two of you; you have been doing it longer. I suppose you can easily post my records. How many investments scammed once audited by me and whatsnot. Also, there is a difference and a big one: Not only I don't care to audit, it damages me. Heck I am in the middle of Angel Extravaganza and my ISK per hour just went to the tosser because I am replying here and this is all part of the gold wrapped package called "auditing and dealing with the consequences". Also, don't worry. RL bad employment is sorting me out so that you won't have lots of problems seeing me audit a lot around for the foreseeable future. Hope it'll help relieve you of your wagon loads of chips on your shoulders. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Hel O'Ween Men On A Mission	Posted - 2010.10.09 11:37:00 - [35] Originally by: Markus Richter So there is a way to crossreference the itemID from the asset api with the installedItemID from industry api? I'm not sure. I haven't dealt with any of the industry APIs so far. My guess is that the itemID is unique in the game and that itemID = installedItemID. But I'm just guessing here. If I'm not mistaken, that's how EveHQ tells BPOs apart from BPCs (once they're used and appear in the IndustryJobs API). -- EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager
SetrakDark Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.10.09 13:11:00 - [36] Originally by: RAW23 Originally by: SetrakDark Really? No one's taken the 2 minutes required to nuke this whole thing? Shameful. Withholding relevant information? Shameful. Give a man a fish bla bla bla... :P
Yendor Widdershins Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2010.10.10 02:44:00 - [37] Originally by: Hel O'Ween Originally by: Markus Richter So there is a way to crossreference the itemID from the asset api with the installedItemID from industry api? I'm not sure. I haven't dealt with any of the industry APIs so far. In the interests of training future auditors: BPOs can be set to a production run longer than the maximum allowed for BPCs. This proves that the blueprint used in the manufacturing order was an original. Also note that only BPOs can have ME or PE research on them. Contracts of various kinds will allow an auditor to examine the blueprint as will a trade window. Unresearched and unmanufactured BPOs are the only kind that can be stacked, and the only kind that can be sold through the market instead of via contracts. Now my challenge question: Suppose I have two accounts. Can I transfer assets (say +5 implants) from my main account to my alt account without leaving an audit trace, and without creating a large number of bogus contracts to "sanitize" the record?
Calypsa Aeurelieus	Posted - 2010.10.10 06:46:00 - [38] It's been forever and a day since I used the feature. But I suppose if Character A was on one account and Character B on another you could use the trade window in station, as IIRC the trade window doesn't keep a log like a regular market/contract transaction.
Jin Natha Yulai Capital Management	Posted - 2010.10.10 07:04:00 - [39] Originally by: Calypsa Aeurelieus It's been forever and a day since I used the feature. But I suppose if Character A was on one account and Character B on another you could use the trade window in station, as IIRC the trade window doesn't keep a log like a regular market/contract transaction. Using the trade window adds a "direct trade between [name] and [name]" entry to both wallet journals. Dumping stuff into a jetcan with one character and retrieving it with another would presumably be less traceable.
Michela Bosun Shipyards	Posted - 2010.10.10 09:20:00 - [40] OK, here's where I call shenanigans. The whole notion of someone being asked to publicly post their full API key is ridiculous. At a certain point, you must take a leap of faith/trust. If you are unwilling to do so, just don't trust their results.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.10.10 10:40:00 - [41] Quote: Now my challenge question: Suppose I have two accounts. Can I transfer assets (say +5 implants) from my main account to my alt account without leaving an audit trace, and without creating a large number of bogus contracts to "sanitize" the record? Yes, and very easily. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Gabriel Virtus hirr	Posted - 2010.10.10 11:06:00 - [42] Originally by: Michela OK, here's where I call shenanigans. The whole notion of someone being asked to publicly post their full API key is ridiculous. At a certain point, you must take a leap of faith/trust. If you are unwilling to do so, just don't trust their results. Why is that ridiculous? At a certain point you do have to take a leap of faith, but posting a full API might make that leap quite a bit smaller. I am not the one trying to convince people I will make good audits and not use their info for unauthorized reasons. The starting point is not trusted, it is the job of the proponent to convince me otherwise. -GV
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.10.10 12:19:00 - [43] Originally by: Gabriel Virtus Originally by: Michela OK, here's where I call shenanigans. The whole notion of someone being asked to publicly post their full API key is ridiculous. At a certain point, you must take a leap of faith/trust. If you are unwilling to do so, just don't trust their results. Why is that ridiculous? At a certain point you do have to take a leap of faith, but posting a full API might make that leap quite a bit smaller. I am not the one trying to convince people I will make good audits and not use their info for unauthorized reasons. The starting point is not trusted, it is the job of the proponent to convince me otherwise. -GV So why didn't you post your full API when you tried convincing people to invest in you? - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Hel O'Ween Men On A Mission	Posted - 2010.10.10 16:06:00 - [44] Originally by: Yendor Widdershins In the interests of training future auditors: BPOs can be set to a production run longer than the maximum allowed for BPCs. This proves that the blueprint used in the manufacturing order was an original. Also note that only BPOs can have ME or PE research on them. Also the production runs remaining is -1 (unlimited) for BPOs, wheres BPCS naturally have a limit here. Quote: Now my challenge question: Suppose I have two accounts. Can I transfer assets (say +5 implants) from my main account to my alt account without leaving an audit trace, and without creating a large number of bogus contracts to "sanitize" the record? As VV pointed out, that's pretty easy: meet at a moon or somewhere and drop a can with the items for the other to pick up. Originally by: Calypsa Aeurelieus It's been forever and a day since I used the feature. But I suppose if Character A was on one account and Character B on another you could use the trade window in station, as IIRC the trade window doesn't keep a log like a regular market/contract transaction. This leaves a trace in the wallet journal API as "Player Trading". -- EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager
RAW23	Posted - 2010.10.10 16:46:00 - [45] @Calypsa - Could you tell us a little bit about your relationships with the other CEO's in your alliance?
Yendor Widdershins Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2010.10.10 19:38:00 - [46] Originally by: Jin Natha Using the trade window adds a "direct trade between [name] and [name]" entry to both wallet journals. Dumping stuff into a jetcan with one character and retrieving it with another would presumably be less traceable. Right on both counts. Another method I haven't seen mentioned yet: The main character abandons ship; the alt character flys in a pod and enters the ship. Ship + cargo have now been transferred with no audit trace.
Michela Bosun Shipyards	Posted - 2010.10.10 22:40:00 - [47] Originally by: Gabriel Virtus Originally by: Michela OK, here's where I call shenanigans. The whole notion of someone being asked to publicly post their full API key is ridiculous. At a certain point, you must take a leap of faith/trust. If you are unwilling to do so, just don't trust their results. Why is that ridiculous? I thought VV pointed out a lot of very valid reasons why a legitimate person would not want to post their full API key publicly. You either did read it or didn't comprehend it. Go back and read it again. Know where all the auditor's loot is will not help you to trust them. It just opens up the auditor to all kinds of trouble.
eliaja	Posted - 2010.10.11 18:59:00 - [48] Quote: personally i think most of the auditors if not all are scam artist an are better at it remember ebank & dbank. There is (sadly) _1_ auditor ATM which is me and I dare, challenge and even bet against you about you managing to find record of mine supporting EBANK in "unsuspicious times before their crack". Which is kind of sad because I really appreciated Athre's (in many respects) and even Hexxx's MD works. whatever YOU did or didnt do makes no difference the process as a whole has shattered all if any confidence into what services auditors provide.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.10.11 19:11:00 - [49] Originally by: eliaja Quote: personally i think most of the auditors if not all are scam artist an are better at it remember ebank & dbank. There is (sadly) _1_ auditor ATM which is me and I dare, challenge and even bet against you about you managing to find record of mine supporting EBANK in "unsuspicious times before their crack". Which is kind of sad because I really appreciated Athre's (in many respects) and even Hexxx's MD works. whatever YOU did or didnt do makes no difference the process as a whole has shattered all if any confidence into what services auditors provide. Just out of academical curiosity, who were those ebil auditors you call in cause? Could you please list 3-4 threads where they did these abominable things you talk about? - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
eliaja	Posted - 2010.10.11 19:32:00 - [50] Edited by: eliaja on 11/10/2010 19:35:16 Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Originally by: eliaja Quote: personally i think most of the auditors if not all are scam artist an are better at it remember ebank & dbank. There is (sadly) _1_ auditor ATM which is me and I dare, challenge and even bet against you about you managing to find record of mine supporting EBANK in "unsuspicious times before their crack". Which is kind of sad because I really appreciated Athre's (in many respects) and even Hexxx's MD works. whatever YOU did or didnt do makes no difference the process as a whole has shattered all if any confidence into what services auditors provide. Just out of academical curiosity, who were those ebil auditors you call in cause? Could you please list 3-4 threads where they did these abominable things you talk about? lol i need threads to prove the ebank an dbank debacle?
SetrakDark Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.10.11 19:59:00 - [51] Originally by: eliaja lol i need threads to prove the ebank an dbank debacle? No, you need to show where auditing as a profession in Eve played a role in those debacles. As someone well-versed in the history of MD debacles I would also like to see this, since, as far as I know, it doesn't exist. If anything, all of the major failures on MD are support for auditing and not the opposite. Just to close the point here for myself, I think auditing is an insufficient solution to an insoluble problem. However, that doesn't justify unfairly and incorrectly maligning the few people who have tried and still do try to improve a system that chugs along despite its inherent flaws. Although I firmly believe that the entire investment system is inherently flawed, I also believe that the few people who have stepped up as auditors have helped to improve something that would still be around in an uglier form without them.
eliaja	Posted - 2010.10.11 23:39:00 - [52] Edited by: eliaja on 11/10/2010 23:42:10 Originally by: SetrakDark Originally by: eliaja lol i need threads to prove the ebank an dbank debacle? No, you need to show where auditing as a profession in Eve played a role in those debacles. As someone well-versed in the history of MD debacles I would also like to see this, since, as far as I know, it doesn't exist. If anything, all of the major failures on MD are support for auditing and not the opposite. Just to close the point here for myself, I think auditing is an insufficient solution to an insoluble problem. However, that doesn't justify unfairly and incorrectly maligning the few people who have tried and still do try to improve a system that chugs along despite its inherent flaws. Although I firmly believe that the entire investment system is inherently flawed, I also believe that the few people who have stepped up as auditors have helped to improve something that would still be around in an uglier form without them. I would like to formally apoligies to those that were offended by my comments earlier there is no problem with the auditing process. So lets just keep doing what we've been doing so far an hopefully it will work itself out. Ebank an dbank were not a scam an we should all be thankfull for the lessons we've learned about ipos/markets in eve. Furthermore i will make more isks due to market hicups because thats all they are an nothing more. now go back to sleep an remember never question the experts!
Gabriel Virtus hirr	Posted - 2010.10.12 02:01:00 - [53] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Random BS After reading your posts and responses for the last year or so, I have come to the conclusion that you are simply unable to understand many arguments put forward by various people, not just myself. You seem to be entirely unable to use even basic logic; alas, I am done trying. Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha So why didn't you post your full API when you tried convincing people to invest in you? I didnÆt ôtryö anything, my bond is full and running. There is a difference between something being ôridiculousö and making a balancing judgment. Can you distinguish these ideas? I ask you to think for at least an hour before responding. -GV
Calypsa Aeurelieus	Posted - 2010.10.17 20:36:00 - [54] Edited by: Calypsa Aeurelieus on 17/10/2010 20:37:49 @ Raw I am the executor of our alliance, which is quite new. I have known the CEO's of the other corporations in the alliance for a relatively short period of time, approximately 1 month for most of them. We do however have bi-weekly voice com meetings. I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "relationship" we are planning future endeavors for the alliance together and I believe that we are all generally trusting of one another... I do not know any of them in a real-life capacity though. I hope that answers your question.
RAW23	Posted - 2010.10.17 22:44:00 - [55] Originally by: Calypsa Aeurelieus Edited by: Calypsa Aeurelieus on 17/10/2010 20:37:49 @ Raw I am the executor of our alliance, which is quite new. I have known the CEO's of the other corporations in the alliance for a relatively short period of time, approximately 1 month for most of them. We do however have bi-weekly voice com meetings. I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "relationship" we are planning future endeavors for the alliance together and I believe that we are all generally trusting of one another... I do not know any of them in a real-life capacity though. I hope that answers your question. The reason I ask is because one of your fellow CEO's ran an extremely suspicious offering here on MD not long ago. You might want to look into that as suspicion, unfortunately, rubs off on you as a colleague of theirs, especially given your chosen new profession. Personally, I would want to see THAT offering audited by an establlished figure to make sure it was legit and not, as it looked, some form of scam before I would be willing to put my faith in someone else closely related. The CEO in question is Selena Hoeeg.
Noxford	Posted - 2010.10.18 03:40:00 - [56] Originally by: ****z If your audits are anything like your web design, I wouldn't hire you. QTF. LOL. I think that was the website I made back in 1998 when I was in high school computer class. I mean, uhh, you can come audit me if you like. I doubt you'd like my review unless you're some fresh business/cpa graduate who hobbies in learning the legacy way of doing rapid evolving things. _____________________________ - Noxford Realtor Services -
Calypsa Aeurelieus	Posted - 2010.10.18 03:54:00 - [57] Raw, I just read the thread you were speaking about. I did not know about that investment until you had mentioned it, I will however say that from what I know about Selena they are true to their word. They hold weekly operations for mining, and I know that have atleast 1 capital BPO currently that they are using. I only know so much about other corporations, I do know they have not done me wrong and I don't think they've done investors wrong. If they did and someone can prove it I have no problem voting them out of the alliance. I understand that it's not easy to accept change or something new, especially with how easy it is for anyone to run off with virutal money. However that's why when I opened this thread I said I'm willing to do an audit and have another auditor do one alongside, and then at the end people can compare our findings and will hopefully see after a few times of that, that I am here to audit, nothing more, nothing less.
RAW23	Posted - 2010.10.18 11:30:00 - [58] Edited by: RAW23 on 18/10/2010 11:32:47 Originally by: Calypsa Aeurelieus Raw, I just read the thread you were speaking about. I did not know about that investment until you had mentioned it, I will however say that from what I know about Selena they are true to their word. They hold weekly operations for mining, and I know that have atleast 1 capital BPO currently that they are using. I only know so much about other corporations, I do know they have not done me wrong and I don't think they've done investors wrong. If they did and someone can prove it I have no problem voting them out of the alliance. I understand that it's not easy to accept change or something new, especially with how easy it is for anyone to run off with virutal money. However that's why when I opened this thread I said I'm willing to do an audit and have another auditor do one alongside, and then at the end people can compare our findings and will hopefully see after a few times of that, that I am here to audit, nothing more, nothing less. Don't get me wrong. Change doesn't worry me and I have no definitive reason to believe that Selena's offering is a scam. However, it was a very suspicious offering for a number of reasons. In fact, it may be a useful exercise for you as a new auditor to go through her threads and try to identify why potential investors might have been extremely wary of it. Guilt by association is a terrible thing and I would not want to say that no one can be an auditor if they have any relationship with someone suspicious. However, I'm sure you can see why a potential new auditor coming from an organisation that already looks a bit dodgy would give people pause for thought and why it is important to remove any possible questions on this issue. It will not be enough to do a few thorough audits, unfortunately. You really do need, from my perspective at least, to clear up any remaining questions surrounding your fellow CEO before I will be able to take your solo work seriously. As I say, a good place to start would be to identify the suspicious elements in Selena's offering and try to find some way of demonstrating that peoples' fears about it are unfounded.
Calypsa Aeurelieus	Posted - 2010.10.18 13:22:00 - [59] Edited by: Calypsa Aeurelieus on 18/10/2010 13:24:13 Raw, I do completely understand where you are coming from; and I do appreciate the fact that you are going about this in a logical sense as opposed to the finger pointing. What I will do is speak to Selena next time I catch them on TS, and I will ask if they would mind me doing an audit of their offering for both consistency in what they were offering vs. what is being done, and to try to alleviate fears & concerns that were raised in the offering by having the factual answers.
AtheistOfFail Caldari	Posted - 2010.10.18 13:58:00 - [60] Send me a mail when you're on next time, k?
Calypsa Aeurelieus	Posted - 2010.10.18 14:29:00 - [61] AOF, Work then Gym, will probably be online @ 0100-0200 EVE time.
Calypsa Aeurelieus	Posted - 2010.10.19 14:24:00 - [62] Update: I had a PM that I received from Selena regarding the project of hers. She stated she was in the process of paying investors back and trying to recover stocks, but didn't quite know how to go about doing it after several factors caused issues with her business plan (Mainly the 0.0 group she was with drastically increased her "rent" which caused the business to be unprofitable). Selena moved out of space and paid the fees necessary, and is now looking to repay investers to keep a good name. I will be helping her with this process to ensure it is done properly and in it's entirety. If you have shares in Selena's corporation from this investment, please get in touch with me via evemail with the number of shares you currently hold and I will ensure you are properly recouped. @RAW this is the best way I can think about doing this. She had a swirl of problems that yes, could have been the result of poor planning, but also as poor luck. However I will not let investors who invested in a corporation in my alliance be shammed out of their isk, and will work with Selena to insure full payback is received to all parties involved. @AOF, I was on for a brief time yesterday but did not see you online. If you have info/questions/comments please lave me an evemail and I will get back to you within 24hours.
Calypsa Aeurelieus	Posted - 2010.10.25 16:10:00 - [63] Ka Bump Wanted to let everyone know I'm still looking to do audits. :)
Halborn Celtic Technologies Inc.	Posted - 2010.11.17 15:56:00 - [64] friendly bump for a good auditor :) thanks for your efforts despite RL and API issues ------------------------------ CEO Celtic Technologies Inc.
Calypsa Aeurelieus	Posted - 2010.11.17 17:47:00 - [65] Thanks for the bump Halborn. Glad I could help out.

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