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The cancer that is Evemon...

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Abaroth Charmar	Posted - 2010.10.11 11:32:00 - [1] I really don't understand why people, especially noobs, use Evemon. It must be so depressing to see a years worth of skill training all lined up. The younger players in my main's pvp corp use Evemon like a bible, quoting things like "Zomg! 43 days until I can use a HAC! I can will have a Pilgrimz and Recon 5 in 68 days! This time next year, I will be soooo uber" etc etc Stop planning how you will play EVE in xx many days, HTFU, make the most of what you have now and enjoy the game! I am a 2004 player and have never used Evemon btw.
Paknac Queltel Swords Horses and Heavy Metal	Posted - 2010.10.11 11:39:00 - [2] I used to use EVEMon to look at what skills I'd need for what ships and mods. Never have I made a year-long plan to follow. That'd be too much like work. Nowadays, EVEMon gets to tell me when I should update a clone or when a queue's about to run out, and that's it. I might replace it with something that complains less, if I ever can be arsed to care. - Paknac Queltel
Serpents smile	Posted - 2010.10.11 11:45:00 - [3] Only tried it once to see if I could get it working on my mac. It did. Then it crashed. Not feel as if I'm missing out on anything. (shrug)
Yakumo Smith Gallente TAKEN.	Posted - 2010.10.11 11:46:00 - [4] Originally by: Abaroth Charmar I really don't understand why people, especially noobs, use Evemon. It must be so depressing to see a years worth of skill training all lined up. The younger players in my main's pvp corp use Evemon like a bible, quoting things like "Zomg! 43 days until I can use a HAC! I can will have a Pilgrimz and Recon 5 in 68 days! This time next year, I will be soooo uber" etc etc Stop planning how you will play EVE in xx many days, HTFU, make the most of what you have now and enjoy the game! I am a 2004 player and have never used Evemon btw. The issue is with the younger players in your corp, not Evemon. How about you use your experience to educate them that they can be having fun before their skills train? That's what more experienced players should be doing, not honking about it on forums. I suppose this must be my sig. I'll do something cool with it eventually.
Blasphemour	Posted - 2010.10.11 11:47:00 - [5] I do use a similar program. Not because I want to be uber or anything, but just because it makes it more easy to see what skillbooks I need to get to be able to advance. It's not a must but it makes it all a bit more easy.
Mashie Saldana Minmatar Veto Corp	Posted - 2010.10.11 11:48:00 - [6] Edited by: Mashie Saldana on 11/10/2010 11:49:08 Confirming EVEMon causes depression, total training time remaining: 1402d 8h 15m 2s
Kalfu	Posted - 2010.10.11 11:51:00 - [7] Originally by: Abaroth Charmar I really don't understand why people, especially noobs, use Evemon. It must be so depressing to see a years worth of skill training all lined up. Not as depressing as knowing you're 5 years behind players who are so eager to help they go to the forums to complain about your use of planning tools.
Bhattran	Posted - 2010.10.11 11:53:00 - [8] Your point is valid but it is an excellent tool and far from a cancer, the real cancer is that mindset of "I can't do anything till XYZ skills are trained." --Submit your bug reports via mental telepathy this will streamline CCP ignoring them.--
Serpents smile	Posted - 2010.10.11 11:53:00 - [9] Originally by: Kalfu Originally by: Abaroth Charmar I really don't understand why people, especially noobs, use Evemon. It must be so depressing to see a years worth of skill training all lined up. Not as depressing as knowing you're 5 years behind players who are so eager to help they go to the forums to complain about your use of planning tools. Awwww. Need a hug?
Corozan Aspinall Party Time Inc.	Posted - 2010.10.11 11:55:00 - [10] I think its good to get the inevitable disappointment out of the way ASAP. EVEMON is an amazing tool but as you say, its rather like looking at your own life 40 years delayed, which will do for some I'm sure.

Abaroth Charmar	Posted - 2010.10.11 11:58:00 - [11] Originally by: Serpents smile Originally by: Kalfu Originally by: Abaroth Charmar I really don't understand why people, especially noobs, use Evemon. It must be so depressing to see a years worth of skill training all lined up. Not as depressing as knowing you're 5 years behind players who are so eager to help they go to the forums to complain about your use of planning tools. Awwww. Need a hug? Lol Also, Evemon just helps confirm the myth that moar SP = moar uber. The fact that someone posted here with "total training time remaining: 1402d 8h 15m 2s" proves my point.
Slavemaster	Posted - 2010.10.11 12:00:00 - [12] Edited by: Slavemaster on 11/10/2010 12:02:46 I am from 2003 and i use it all the time...... I use for it for my toons, skills, production, ship layout ++ and cant understand how its possible without losing out, Not using it... And if you Dont use it as a trader you are fuc...... Or plain stupid Regards
Jennifer Starling	Posted - 2010.10.11 12:01:00 - [13] Originally by: Abaroth Charmar I really don't understand why people, especially noobs, use Evemon. It must be so depressing to see a years worth of skill training all lined up. The younger players in my main's pvp corp use Evemon like a bible, quoting things like "Zomg! 43 days until I can use a HAC! I can will have a Pilgrimz and Recon 5 in 68 days! This time next year, I will be soooo uber" etc etc Stop planning how you will play EVE in xx many days, HTFU, make the most of what you have now and enjoy the game! I am a 2004 player and have never used Evemon btw. LOL In every game people are working and looking forward to a new accomplishment. Due to EVE's unique skilling mechanisms, the time to reach your next milestone is fixed and EVEmon helps you see when that is and more important, shows you what targets are realistic and which are not. Well for one thing, EVEmon just shows the facts exactly as they are. If that's depressing, does that say more about (people's disappointment with) EVE's skilling speed or about EVEmon?
Mashie Saldana Minmatar Veto Corp	Posted - 2010.10.11 12:02:00 - [14] Originally by: Abaroth Charmar The fact that someone posted here with "total training time remaining: 1402d 8h 15m 2s" proves my point. That is on a 90m SP char btw.
Norian Lonark Gallente Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance	Posted - 2010.10.11 12:04:00 - [15] EVEmon is a great tool to help you plan and set your goals. The tool is great, if new players are depressed at the training time, then you just need to help them with all the stuff they can do right at this moment, or if they have an end goal help them with mini goals along the way. Lots of people me included use planning tools to help them in game, but the fact that I havent got all the skills doesnt stop me from playing the game now.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.10.11 12:06:00 - [16] Soà àwhat's the problem? The OP isn't entirely clear on that point. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
ivar R'dhak	Posted - 2010.10.11 12:09:00 - [17] Edited by: ivar R''dhak on 11/10/2010 12:13:14 Originally by: Abaroth Charmar I can will have a Pilgrimz and Recon 5 in 68 days! This time next year, I will be soooo uber" etc etc I think that¦s your problem right there. I used to be a skillpoint fanatic too and now I so don¦t fracking care anymore. And yes one can fly a ship even with lvl3 or 4 in the skill. Gasp It¦s true! I saw it on the TeeVee. BTW nothing bad about Evemon use. It¦s a great tool to use. From the window relocator to the whole skill/ship/item browsing and planing. Frankly this should be an in game feature. Well at least there are certificates now helping you somewhat with the whole thing. _________________________________________________ Mal-¦Appears we got here just in a nick of time. What does that make us?¦ Zoe-`Big damn heroes sir.` Mal-¦Aint we just.*¦
Jack Gilligan Caldari 1st Cavalry Division Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2010.10.11 12:19:00 - [18] I'm a 2007 player and use EveMon. It's a must have if you aren't going to waste time. Why CCP came up with their cryptic certificate planner in an attempt to reinvent the wheel rather than integrate something like EveMon into the game I'll never know...
Mashie Saldana Minmatar Veto Corp	Posted - 2010.10.11 12:23:00 - [19] Originally by: Jack Gilligan I'm a 2007 player and use EveMon. It's a must have if you aren't going to waste time. Why CCP came up with their cryptic certificate planner in an attempt to reinvent the wheel rather than integrate something like EveMon into the game I'll never know... The certificates are very handy, if someone wants to know what skills are needed to max out say gunnery they have a quick look at Turret Control Elite. Sure, to actually look up the certificates within EVEMon is even better.
Kesshisan Minmatar	Posted - 2010.10.11 12:27:00 - [20] I am a new player (~2.5 mil SP) and I've been using Evemon since about my first week. The way I use Evemon isn't to plan out a year's worth of training to one skill, but rather to plan out multiple instances of skills down different paths. This helps see a bigger picture broken down into bite-sized chunks. Additionally I use it to notice any overlap in abilities to help guide me in the right direction with my chosen career(s) in Eve. For example, I'm currently training up to use my first Mining Barge. Using Evemon I noticed that the difference in time to fly a Procurer vs the time to fly a Retreiver is only 2 days, and if I'm going to spend about 2 weeks training to use a Procurer, I may as well spend the extra 2 days and get into a Retriever which mines 2x as fast and carries 2x as much cargo and has 2x as many hps, and more drones...etc. (And before someone comes in and yells at me about how terrible highsec mining is, I'm only doing this so I can half-afk and make income while doing my homework with my headphones on. I don't plan to make mining my main source of income, I already have 2 other ways I make a decent chunk of change, mining is just what I plan to do during my down-time.) In addition while planning out my first Mining Barge, I noticed a huge crossover with the manufacturing side of things. Because I was planning on getting Industrial V and Science V anyways, a lot of time spent getting into a Retriever is time spent focusing on my manufacturing career as well. Which brings me to my next use of Evemon: Determining Opportunity Cost. I use Evemon to determine how long it will take me to reach skill X, and skill Y. For example, I play with a friend of mine who runs rank 4s, and lets me do the salvaging and looting. Thus Scrapmetal Processing will increase our income by a decent chunk. However Evemon has told me that in order to train Scrapmetal Processing up to level 1, it'll take me about 40 days from where I am currently. Where as to get Heavy Attack Drones and Drone Interfacing up to decent levels is only about 7 days. An increase in damage will speed up the rank 4s we run, further increasing our income per hour. I used Evemon to determine that this 7 day plan is worth it to train up first, and the 40 day plan is going to take a back seat. Evemon is a tool, and like any tool it is only as useful as the person using the tool can make it. In the right hands Evemon can be extremely valuable, and in the wrong hands Evemon can be a hinderance. Evemon isn't the problem, the people using Evemon are the problem.

Muad 'dib Caldari Payable on Death	Posted - 2010.10.11 12:32:00 - [21] Originally by: Abaroth Charmar I really don't understand why people, especially noobs, use Evemon. It must be so depressing to see a years worth of skill training all lined up. The younger players in my main's pvp corp use Evemon like a bible, quoting things like "Zomg! 43 days until I can use a HAC! I can will have a Pilgrimz and Recon 5 in 68 days! This time next year, I will be soooo uber" etc etc Stop planning how you will play EVE in xx many days, HTFU, make the most of what you have now and enjoy the game! I am a 2004 player and have never used Evemon btw. Ditto. It would be interesting to find out the stat for number of people who started playing eve, then got evemon, then who didnt sub after...
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2010.10.11 12:33:00 - [22] Evemon makes people forget that Eve is all about enjoying the journey, not the destination Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Hesperius Parsec Flux War.Pigs.	Posted - 2010.10.11 12:36:00 - [23] Don't be jealous. ... you are definitely better off without it anyway. fo reel.
Klandi Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2010.10.11 12:40:00 - [24] I found out by examination of the skills that there are some that can be given lower priority. For example: some skills increase damage - I want to gank so I make those high priority The skills that allow me to tank come second the skills that allow me to fit more modules on my ships third You may find that you can fit and fire the module, but you cant do other things at the same time... (like tank) and where you can't find how the skills affect your ship - I find EveHQ does a fine job with the ship fitter.... my 2c worth
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2010.10.11 12:40:00 - [25] Originally by: Rodj Blake Evemon makes people forget that Eve is all about enjoying the journey, not the destination Not really. At least not for thoose who know what they are doing. :) EVEmon like any other EVE tool, is just a tool. EVEmon in particular is great at keeping track of your skill plans, and for genral planning of what ship and path you wish to specialize in. Its also good as a quick reference for what each skill does, and is handy for calculating remaps. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.10.11 12:52:00 - [26] Edited by: Akita T on 11/10/2010 12:54:22 EVEMon lets me know when I should log back because my queue has room for extra skills. And lets me see quite a few item stats without logging in. Cancer ? Who cares. It's useful. _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
illford baker STK Scientific IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.10.11 12:54:00 - [27] Originally by: Abaroth Charmar I really don't understand why people, especially noobs, use Evemon. It must be so depressing to see a years worth of skill training all lined up. The younger players in my main's pvp corp use Evemon like a bible, quoting things like "Zomg! 43 days until I can use a HAC! I can will have a Pilgrimz and Recon 5 in 68 days! This time next year, I will be soooo uber" etc etc Stop planning how you will play EVE in xx many days, HTFU, make the most of what you have now and enjoy the game! I am a 2004 player and have never used Evemon btw. TL:DR people don't play the way i do, cry cry cry.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.10.11 12:56:00 - [28] my main use for evemon has pretty much always been okay when does the skill I am training now end?
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.10.11 12:58:00 - [29] I use EVEMon to keep track of my S&I jobs. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
De'Veldrin Minmatar CareBears on Fire The Obsidian Legion	Posted - 2010.10.11 13:02:00 - [30] I like the skill training planner in EveHQ, not because I'm twiddling my thumbs while I wait for XYZ skill to train but because it lets me plan out the next six - nine months worth of training so I can keep track of when things are going to end, and what's coming next. If your new players are waiting for skills to finish, that's a player perception problem, not a problem with the tools. Teach them what they can do with the skills they have now. Further, this just serves to illustrate the point that a lot of the players in Eve will ***** and moan about anything - this is the same damned argument I hear about Learning Skills: "ZOMG get rid of learning skillz plox. New players hate them because they have to wait for them to train!!!!!one!!!!!!eleventy!!!1" No, they bloody well don't, but they don't understand that because they have older players yelling it at them from the second they log in. --Vel

Slavemaster	Posted - 2010.10.11 13:09:00 - [31] Bha..... Ok, listen to the master. Everything about eve-mon is pure gold. I got over 300 orders, and more than 1 toon+ - EM will tell me when its sold, when I bought it. - When I have produced my stuff Other stuff. Skill planning for alts, and noob friendly and its a must for every player. In short dont laugh at things you dont understand Regards
Ramingo Caldari Payable on Death	Posted - 2010.10.11 13:12:00 - [32] Evemon is great for above mentioned reasons. Outdated clone warning = gold, free time in skill queue = gold, effect of implants/learning skills on a mid-term skill plan = also awesome.
Naomi Wildfire Amarr Stardust Heavy Industries Majesta Empire	Posted - 2010.10.11 13:14:00 - [33] The only thing i use EM for is to get a quick check of the skill runtime of my chars.
Zaqar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2010.10.11 13:23:00 - [34] It's just a tool, like any other.
Dagny Bronstein	Posted - 2010.10.11 13:30:00 - [35] Edited by: Dagny Bronstein on 11/10/2010 13:31:57 I usually have one main skillplan which spans at least 3-4 months (occasionally up to 6-12 months) and which I never follow. It just exists to remind me of the most important skills I am still missing. (e.g. I started training AWU V on my 2 year old main only last week because there are very few cases in which the extra PG would impact how I fit a ship and in high-sec I use PG hardwirings anyways -- nevertheless it is good to remind yourself that you definitely should train this skill at some point even if it doesn't appear super-useful at any given moment). Then I have specialized skillplans to see how long it would take me to fly certain ships/fill certain roles reasonably well ... Let's say I have some spare cash and want to spend it on something a little fancy. Maybe I should try an Ashimmu in pvp? So I will first head to battleclinic/shc to read up on common fittings and then try to do a decent skill plan based on that - how long would it take me to train minmatar cruiser to lvl IV? I probably should train the Energy Emission Systems skill to lvl5 if I want to fly Blood Raider ships well... Is there anything I can train to improve my cap on that particular fitting? maybe an additional level in acceleration control would help... Perhaps this would be a good time to train my medium pulse laser spec up an additional level as well? This usually results in a 10-40 day skillplan on which I can base my decision whether to buy that ship or not and which I would follow relatively closely if I decided to do so. Evemon (with some help from EFT) is very good at answering the question "How long would it take me to train for that ship, taking into account relevant support skills?". Answering this question by hand would require a lot more work. For example I currently have the following skillplans on my main: "carrier", "nightmare", "minnie [cruiser]", "guardian", "current" (my general skillplan)
Lillith Starfire	Posted - 2010.10.11 13:35:00 - [36] Currently trolling: OP 1337 SP/Hour 2 hours, 3 minutes, 51 seconds
Aiwha Caldari 101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda	Posted - 2010.10.11 13:35:00 - [37] I personally use EVEmon for its handy dandy remapping function. Just started down the road to caps and thanks to EVEmon, I was able to save months of time over the next year I've devoted to developing my capital skills. I like me Senior Recruiter
Mazzarins Demise Ministry of War	Posted - 2010.10.11 13:35:00 - [38] I use EVEmon just because it can make EVE's windowed mode fill the entire desktop, removing the annoying borders and taskbar at the bottom of the screen. That alone warrants the download in my opinion. The rest is just icing on the cake. _________________________________________ Support the "Seed Primae on the market and ORE LP Stores" proposal! Click here
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.10.11 13:38:00 - [39] Originally by: Abaroth Charmar I really don't understand why people, especially noobs, use Evemon. It must be so depressing to see a years worth of skill training all lined up. The younger players in my main's pvp corp use Evemon like a bible, quoting things like "Zomg! 43 days until I can use a HAC! I can will have a Pilgrimz and Recon 5 in 68 days! This time next year, I will be soooo uber" etc etc Stop planning how you will play EVE in xx many days, HTFU, make the most of what you have now and enjoy the game! I am a 2004 player and have never used Evemon btw. In the days before the skillqueue, Evemon was something of an essential in order to avoid those 4AM skillchanges. Now I use it to make sure my skillqueue doesn't need refilling while I'm on holiday or something. Evemon, used properly is a helpful tool for scheduling skills, and judging cost-benefits of training this skill rather than that skill. But yes, your point is a good one. Evemon used improperly can be depressing and misleading, and I cant help feeling that it causes more problems than it solves, if some of the threads in the Skills folder are any indication. Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
Ifly Uwalk Caldari Empire Tax Collection Agency	Posted - 2010.10.11 13:44:00 - [40] OP is an EvEMon dev alt checking to see whether enough people jump in to rescue its e-honeur in order to gauge whether it would be worthwhile to charge RL money for it. C/D?

Louis deGuerre Gallente Amicus Morte Shock an Awe	Posted - 2010.10.11 13:50:00 - [41] @op Sol: A microwarp drive? In a battleship? Are you insane? They arenÆt built for this! Clear Skies - The Movie
Slade Trillgon Endless Possibilities Inc.	Posted - 2010.10.11 13:53:00 - [42] Originally by: Zaqar It's just a tool, like any other. In the sense that it is only as usefull as the indivudal that holds it Slade :Signature Temporarily Disabled:
Abaroth Charmar	Posted - 2010.10.11 14:01:00 - [43] Originally by: Ifly Uwalk OP is an EvEMon dev alt checking to see whether enough people jump in to rescue its e-honeur in order to gauge whether it would be worthwhile to charge RL money for it. C/D? That's me rumbled then Clearly starting a threadnaught attacking your own product is an elite marketing ploy.
Muul Udonii Minmatar THORN Syndicate Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2010.10.11 14:08:00 - [44] People plan to fly ships in the future? I'm shocked and appalled. Is the OP telling us that he has never planned more than one skill in advance, and has never tried to plan to buy ships in time to be able to fly them? That's pretty daft if you ask me.
Troll Bridgington SWARTA Mostly Clueless	Posted - 2010.10.11 14:23:00 - [45] Originally by: Mazzarins Demise I use EVEmon just because it can make EVE's windowed mode fill the entire desktop, removing the annoying borders and taskbar at the bottom of the screen. That alone warrants the download in my opinion. The rest is just icing on the cake.
Ran Khanon Amarr Swords Horses and Heavy Metal	Posted - 2010.10.11 14:24:00 - [46] Agreed. Only use it for background checks on other people's API's :) I like those, "hmm what shall I train now" moments and I change my mind on skills and goals all the time. Recruiting!
Lady Ayeipsia	Posted - 2010.10.11 14:27:00 - [47] I guess to me, I don't get why the OP seems to think using Evemon to plan your skills means you aren't making the most of what hou have now and enjoying the game. It seems like to seperate things in my mind. I have a plan in Evemon to get me a HIC and a HAC, with the full T2 fittings. It has about 60 days left (mainly Cruiser to 5 and Medium Projectile turret to 5). I am excited to be able to fly the Broadsword and the Munnin. That said, I'm still missioning in my Ravens, mining in my Rokh when in need of minerals, exploring in my Cheetah and Drakes, and making pretty explosions with my Hound. There is a disconnect between what I plan and what I am doing now, and I enjoy both aspects of the game. I just don't get the OP's mentality that people who use Evemon to plan aren't enjoying playing the game before the plan completes.
Illwill Bill Svea Rike Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2010.10.11 14:41:00 - [48] I personally prefer GTKEveMon, but hey, it's a matter of taste. I do, however, share the OP's dislike of year-long skill plans. My advice for new players is to have a basic skill plan with things like learning and support skills, and then train whatever they feel like training. When you're lost and don't know what to train, you revert back to the basic plan with support skills. Originally by: CCP Navigator Great story but you probably want this in CAOD so feel free to post there with your main.
Barakkus	Posted - 2010.10.11 15:04:00 - [49] I like to plan my training in EVEMon, then not stick to the plan... Originally by: captain foivos Who would recruit someone named Barakkus? Wait a minute...
Abaroth Charmar	Posted - 2010.10.11 15:19:00 - [50] Originally by: Illwill Bill I do, however, share the OP's dislike of year-long skill plans. My advice for new players is to have a basic skill plan with things like learning and support skills, and then train whatever they feel like training. When you're lost and don't know what to train, you revert back to the basic plan with support skills. This is what I'm getting at tbh. There's nothing wrong with having a short to mid-term goal like a few weeks or a month or so for a particular ship you want to use, but I don't see why you'd need/want to use Evemon to tell you that you won't be flying something for another year or whatever.

Gewrixlera	Posted - 2010.10.11 15:22:00 - [51] Quote: The younger players in my main's pvp corp use Evemon like a bible, quoting things like "Zomg! 43 days until I can use a HAC! I can will have a Pilgrimz and Recon 5 in 68 days! This time next year, I will be soooo uber" etc etc Stop planning how you will play EVE in xx many days, HTFU, make the most of what you have now and enjoy the game! This has nothing to do with EVEMon - as many others have said. EVEMon has many great uses, one of my favorite is WTF - I want to fly a ship fit this way, what skills do I need based on where I am now? The fact that my Carrier training plan is a year long is a side issue/benefit, but setting milestones for each of those multi-hundred-million-isk skillbooks is useful, so I can train the less-expensive support skills while saving for the big books, and it all adds up in the end. TLDR: EVEMon isn't the issue, the fact that your corpmates feel they can't fly a ship until skill X is at a particular level is either an issue for your corp leadership or those pilots, not EVEMon...
Lady Ayeipsia	Posted - 2010.10.11 15:32:00 - [52] Originally by: Abaroth Charmar This is what I'm getting at tbh. There's nothing wrong with having a short to mid-term goal like a few weeks or a month or so for a particular ship you want to use, but I don't see why you'd need/want to use Evemon to tell you that you won't be flying something for another year or whatever. In some cases, I agree. However, what is you really want to fly a capital ship? Save for maybe Frieghters, aren't most cap ship plans, including fitting, close to a year? I know for my character, a carrier with a fit was some 220 days away. Now granted, that's not something I am working towards. Still, it's just interesting to see that if I wanted to do X, I need to train for Y days. As for the talk from the noobs, perhaps it's more that they simply don't have much else to talk about. They can't talk about their current leet fits simply becasue they don't have the fits yet. You and the other vets do, and probably talk about them a bit. The noobs only have the future to talk about because to compare to you guys, they don't have anything they feel would be worthwhile to the conversation at the moment.
Whiny McEmokid	Posted - 2010.10.11 15:37:00 - [53] Originally by: Abaroth Charmar I am a 2004 player and have never used Evemon btw. Evemon is awesome, you are the cancer.
Niccolado Starwalker Gallente Shadow Templars	Posted - 2010.10.11 15:40:00 - [54] Edited by: Niccolado Starwalker on 11/10/2010 15:42:04 Edited by: Niccolado Starwalker on 11/10/2010 15:41:18 Originally by: Mashie Saldana Originally by: Abaroth Charmar The fact that someone posted here with "total training time remaining: 1402d 8h 15m 2s" proves my point. That is on a 90m SP char btw. /confirms that me too feels like a noob when using EveMon. 332d or so of skills queued sigh Originally by: Dianabolic Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL.
cBOLTSON Reaction Theory Talos Coalition	Posted - 2010.10.11 15:55:00 - [55] Originally by: Abaroth Charmar I really don't understand why people, especially noobs, use Evemon. It must be so depressing to see a years worth of skill training all lined up. The younger players in my main's pvp corp use Evemon like a bible, quoting things like "Zomg! 43 days until I can use a HAC! I can will have a Pilgrimz and Recon 5 in 68 days! This time next year, I will be soooo uber" etc etc Stop planning how you will play EVE in xx many days, HTFU, make the most of what you have now and enjoy the game! I am a 2004 player and have never used Evemon btw. Evemon is accurate and gives people 'milestones' to attain as they progress in the game. Stop trying to disparage something that helps newer players along. I have used evemon for allmost the whole time ive been playing. You should give it a try, it makes things a hell of a lot easier. Its kinda like saying 'why use a calculator when you can be super-pro-oldschool-vet and use an abacus' ....
Professor Tarantula Hedion University	Posted - 2010.10.11 15:58:00 - [56] It's not necessary at all, and doesn't even offer an advantage except what a day planner may to the chronically forgetful, but some people simply like having things like that to play around with. My Warmest Regards. Prof. Tarantula, Esq.
Brian Ballsack	Posted - 2010.10.11 16:29:00 - [57] Originally by: Yakumo Smith The issue is with the younger players in your corp, not Evemon. How about you use your experience to educate them that they can be having fun before their skills train? That's what more experienced players should be doing, not honking about it on forums. +1 This is what happens when you get a corp full of wow rejects
LHA Tarawa	Posted - 2010.10.11 16:40:00 - [58] Is this another one of those... you don't play the game the way I do, therefor, you suck. Some people enjoy turning rocks into ISK. Some people enjoy seeing other peoples' ships into wrecks. Some people enjoy building a corp from a few newb freinds into a large, well integrated fighting unit. Some like to plant their flag and shape the political landscape of the universe. Some judge their success on how many kills they have. Some judge their success on how few losses they have. Some judge their success on the amount of ISK in their wallet. Some judge their success by how many well researched BPOs they have. Some judge success on how fast they can tear through an L4 missions. Some judge their success by how many players are in their corp. And, YES, some judge their succes by ability to fly a certain ship. So, perhaps the OP is a PVPer that wants people out of station where he can kill them. Perhaps he is angry that they are sitting in station talking about how many days until they can fly an XYZ. Oh... if only no EVEMON, they wouldn't know how long until XYZ, and they'd be out here in space where I can kill them. WRONG! If they aren't into killing and dieing, then instead of in station playing with EVEMON, they'd be missioning to fatten their wallet, or doing stuff to build their corp, or.... whatever. You need to find people that play the game the way you want, NOT try to transform those that play it a differnt way.
heheheh Phoenix Club	Posted - 2010.10.11 16:41:00 - [59] Edited by: heheheh on 11/10/2010 16:41:54 Originally by: LHA Tarawa Is this another one of those... you don't play the game the way I do, therefor, you suck. Some people enjoy turning rocks into ISK. Some people enjoy seeing other peoples' ships into wrecks. Some people enjoy building a corp from a few newb freinds into a large, well integrated fighting unit. Some like to plant their flag and shape the political landscape of the universe. Some judge their success on how many kills they have. Some judge their success on how few losses they have. Some judge their success on the amount of ISK in their wallet. Some judge their success by how many well researched BPOs they have. Some judge success on how fast they can tear through an L4 missions. Some judge their success by how many players are in their corp. And, YES, some judge their succes by ability to fly a certain ship. So, perhaps the OP is a PVPer that wants people out of station where he can kill them. Perhaps he is angry that they are sitting in station talking about how many days until they can fly an XYZ. Oh... if only no EVEMON, they wouldn't know how long until XYZ, and they'd be out here in space where I can kill them. WRONG! If they aren't into killing and dieing, then instead of in station playing with EVEMON, they'd be missioning to fatten their wallet, or doing stuff to build their corp, or.... whatever. You need to find people that play the game the way you want, NOT try to transform those that play it a differnt way. Not a bad post this
Horrus Khrosian	Posted - 2010.10.11 16:45:00 - [60] I can't imagine playing long-term without it now tbh. Evemon allows me to get the most out of my skills and in a game where training time is often the biggest restricting factor in being able to experience new content, that's an issue anyone under 100mil sp is probably going to face. Yeah, if I was an '04 account and had everything already then there would be little point in evemon aside from the "most sp" metagame, but for those of us who came later to the party it's invaluable help for getting to the skills we need efficiently. The journey is the fun part, but there's no reason to refuse help and direction in that journey.

Jim Tudeski	Posted - 2010.10.11 16:47:00 - [61] Only 256 days until I have maxed Leaderships skills and can finally use my alt!
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2010.10.11 16:51:00 - [62] If you truly dont understand why new players use evemon you are a ****ing idiot. If you dont agree with why they use it you are simply disagreeing with them. You explicitly informed us that it was the former. /thread
LHA Tarawa	Posted - 2010.10.11 17:45:00 - [63] Originally by: Cipher Jones If you truly dont understand why new players use evemon you are a ****ing idiot. If you dont agree with why they use it you are simply disagreeing with them. You explicitly informed us that it was the former. /thread He does understand.... but he doesn't like it. The new players are off doing things they enjoy. He wants them out in space getting killed, because killing them is what he enjoys. This is no different than the "get rid of high sec asteroids to force people into low sec", or the "Nerf high sec L4s to force people out into low sec"... or whatever. If people are off playing the game the way they want, then they aren't playing the game the way he wants them to. What he fails to realize is that attempting to force people to play the way he wants them to, will result in most of them not playing at all. If you are a PVPer looking for targets to kill, what is the difference to you if they are in station or the acount doesn't exist at all?
Ehranavaar	Posted - 2010.10.11 17:49:00 - [64] Originally by: Abaroth Charmar Stop planning how you will play EVE in xx many days, HTFU, make the most of what you have now and enjoy the game! nothing wrong with planning ahead guy. my skill training plan for instance ends in early 2019.
Lost Greybeard	Posted - 2010.10.11 17:50:00 - [65] I had the opposite problem. I knew immediately what I wanted to do, and since the math in Eve is middle-school stuff at best I charted out an optimum skill plan (on paper) in about an hour and a half, and then executed it in a couple months (Stealth Bombers, wheeeeeeeeeeee). Then... ...well, 'then' nothing. I already have what I want (SB and, obviously, exploration skills, because what else would you train when you get the free super-scanning boat). Now I kind of wander around taking whatever looks mildly interesting, and my corp-mates all kind of complain about my lack of focus. Not too loudly, of course, I'm an SB pilot who often plays after coming back from the bar and I have dropped a bomb on an ally before (in my defense, it was a neutral alt). I feel like I need another goal to focus the training again (beyond 'hey, target painting is a KIND of support skill...) and maybe EveMon would help. Unfortunately, I kind of feel like OP about it (it's a bit of a depressing crutch) so I can't bring myself to actually use the damned thing. --- If you outlaw tautologies, only outlaws will have tautologies. ~Anonymous
Marchocias Silent Ninja's	Posted - 2010.10.11 18:25:00 - [66] I really don't understand why people, especially vets, don't use Evemon. It must be so depressing not to be able to see all the skills you plan on training, nicely all lined up. Virtually all the players in my main's pvp corp use Evemon like a tool, never bothering to quote anything about it, as its useful and it saves them time, time they use to talk about more interesting stuff. Start planning your skills with Evemon, save yourself time, and allow yourself to make the most of what you have now and enjoy the game! I am a 2006 player and have never used Evemon btw. Not that either of those pieces of information are relevant. ---- I belong to Silent Ninja (Hopefully that should cover it).
Forum Guy	Posted - 2010.10.11 18:30:00 - [67] Originally by: Abaroth Charmar I really don't understand why people, especially noobs, use Evemon. It must be so depressing to see a years worth of skill training all lined up. The younger players in my main's pvp corp use Evemon like a bible, quoting things like "Zomg! 43 days until I can use a HAC! I can will have a Pilgrimz and Recon 5 in 68 days! This time next year, I will be soooo uber" etc etc Stop planning how you will play EVE in xx many days, HTFU, make the most of what you have now and enjoy the game! I am a 2004 player and have never used Evemon btw. Never used Evemon, although I do use the certificate planner as a guide these days, probably have about 8 months planned but not interested to know the exact amount of time.
Guilliman R Gallente Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.10.11 18:31:00 - [68] Evemon helped me most efficiently train research alts (pew 14 days!). I also managed to loose 40 days worth of training from my carrier 'in my head plan'. ------
Metalcali	Posted - 2010.10.11 18:37:00 - [69] Confirming that evemon made me lose my job, stole my wife, and kicked my dog
Lance Fighter Amarr	Posted - 2010.10.11 18:51:00 - [70] evemons current use for me has taken a backseat to other things.. I rarely ever use evemon for skill plans in the long term any more, much less stick to them. evemon's use is industry and market related stuff is more than useful.. but more importantly, it helps me keep track of corporate noobs. I can keep track of my own skills fairly easily, hell, i log into eve most every day.. it is those other people that im attempting to teach that I need evemon's help keeping track of. Otherwise, I just train whatever I feel like training. Im at the point where I can fly most anything comfortably, so exactly what I am training when is no longer a concern. Hell, i gave up implants because im too lazy to ask the lp store for an updated set each time I die. /60m sp 06 char

Haniblecter Teg F.R.E.E. Explorer The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.10.11 19:00:00 - [71] Originally by: Kalfu Originally by: Abaroth Charmar I really don't understand why people, especially noobs, use Evemon. It must be so depressing to see a years worth of skill training all lined up. Not as depressing as knowing you're 5 years behind players who are so eager to help they go to the forums to complain about your use of planning tools. Now there's some lulls. ----------------- Friends Forever
Antihrist Pripravnik 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.10.11 22:04:00 - [72] Originally by: Abaroth Charmar I really don't understand why people use Evemon. #1 - Window relocator #2 - Connection to Battleclinic loadouts (much easier to use then their terrible website based search tool) #3 - The easiest blueprint ME and material requirements calculator I used so far #4 - Complete and very well organized OOG database of ships and modules #5 - Industrial jobs listing #6 - Skill planning (yes, it's on #6 in my list) ... Plus, being an old fashion desktop application programmer, I respect anyone who makes a real application instead making a web based bull**** and calling it "an application". (Life, however, does have a sense of irony - I currently make my living by writing php code)
LittleTerror	Posted - 2010.10.11 22:15:00 - [73] I don't use it either OP, most my skills take a long time so its depressing using it to make a plan to follow what I will use it for though its help remap my attributes. I tend to trading lvl 5 ships skills these days so I'm mostly perception and willpower but I threw in a few intel and memory skills into an evemon plan to get a more balanced attribute layout. Humm I did use it a lot before the skill queuing though.
Cathode'Ray	Posted - 2010.10.11 22:15:00 - [74] Using evemon is no different from browsing this forum, or using a 3rd party website; it is a tool, an adjunct to the game. Besides, I don't know anyone who has set out a 12 month skill plan and stuck to it religiously, players tend to use it as a general guide. Another benefit for newer players is the ability to browse ships and equipment and get an "idea" of the time investment required, they may realise they can start using X ship type much sooner than they thought and decide to train for it, or even stumble across information they knew nothing about. It's all good, if you don't want to use it , all well and good, DONÆT; but whining about it like a little girl because it is not your cup of tea, makes as much sense as making door handles out of fresh cream.
Sader Rykane Amarr Midnight Sentinels Midnight Space Syndicate	Posted - 2010.10.11 22:25:00 - [75] I regularly setup year long training plans and have no problem knowing it will take a year to finish...
Brutorr	Posted - 2010.10.11 23:32:00 - [76] Originally by: Bhattran Your point is valid but it is an excellent tool and far from a cancer, the real cancer is that mindset of "I can't do anything till XYZ skills are trained." Fly a Blackbird correctly without Electronic Warfare and then read your quote again.
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux War.Pigs.	Posted - 2010.10.11 23:56:00 - [77] Edited by: Liang Nuren on 11/10/2010 23:58:39 Originally by: Sader Rykane I regularly setup year long training plans and have no problem knowing it will take a year to finish... I like setting up year long skill plans to make sure I make good use of a remap. And then I subsequently ignore them and go about training whatever. -Liang Ed: Right now, I'm supposed to be training some manufacturing skill, but instead I'm training Armored Warfare Spec 5... on two accounts. #epicfail -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter Blog
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2010.10.12 07:05:00 - [78] Originally by: LHA Tarawa Originally by: Cipher Jones If you truly dont understand why new players use evemon you are a **ing idiot. If you dont agree with why they use it you are simply disagreeing with them. You explicitly informed us that it was the former. /thread He does understand.... but he doesn't like it. Originally by:** OPMcObvioustroll I really don't understand why people, especially noobs, use Evemon.
Theron Iyayora	Posted - 2010.10.12 07:15:00 - [79] I use a pen and paper to make my skill plans, and tick them off as I train them. Whenever I say this people are utterly shocked and instantly become aggressive toward me, and something similar to a Spanish Inquisition begins. I'm told it can help me train things quicker, but if my learnings are 4/4 then how can it? If I have 4 skills to train, 1 will take 1 hour, another 2 hours, another 3 hours, another 4 hours, it's going to take me 10 hours whichever order I put them in, now that the learning skills and implants are all in. It's the same for 20 skills that will take 6 months. I don't play eve like some sort of powergamer where everything needs to be perfect, I just play it like I want to.
Khors Amtek Inc	Posted - 2010.10.12 07:51:00 - [80] I only made a one year plan once, and it's more or less a list of skills that I should train when I can't think of anything better.

Marchocias Silent Ninja's	Posted - 2010.10.12 08:23:00 - [81] Originally by: Theron Iyayora I use a pen and paper to make my skill plans, and tick them off as I train them. Whenever I say this people are utterly shocked and instantly become aggressive toward me, and something similar to a Spanish Inquisition begins. I'm told it can help me train things quicker, but if my learnings are 4/4 then how can it? If I have 4 skills to train, 1 will take 1 hour, another 2 hours, another 3 hours, another 4 hours, it's going to take me 10 hours whichever order I put them in, now that the learning skills and implants are all in. It's the same for 20 skills that will take 6 months. I don't play eve like some sort of powergamer where everything needs to be perfect, I just play it like I want to. Amongst our weaponary... are such elements as peer pressure, mockery... I'll come in again. ---- I belong to Silent Ninja (Hopefully that should cover it).
Cupio Mortem	Posted - 2010.10.12 08:50:00 - [82] Originally by: Theron Iyayora I use a pen and paper to make my skill plans, and tick them off as I train them. Whenever I say this people are utterly shocked and instantly become aggressive toward me, and something similar to a Spanish Inquisition begins. I'm told it can help me train things quicker, but if my learnings are 4/4 then how can it? If I have 4 skills to train, 1 will take 1 hour, another 2 hours, another 3 hours, another 4 hours, it's going to take me 10 hours whichever order I put them in, now that the learning skills and implants are all in. It's the same for 20 skills that will take 6 months. I don't play eve like some sort of powergamer where everything needs to be perfect, I just play it like I want to. lol@paper
Darion Amador Muppet Ninja's	Posted - 2010.10.12 09:50:00 - [83] Op is merely projecting deep depression over training skills. Nothing to worry about, move along kids.
Syphon Lodian Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2010.10.12 09:57:00 - [84] Edited by: Syphon Lodian on 12/10/2010 10:00:00 It's impressive software. Simple and 100% effective at what it does. I love using it, but I only do short-term plans. 1 week I want to mine, so I'll plan a prompt crash-plan for something on the weekend. Or I'll switch to missions on the dime and EVEMon is there to facilitate a quick and easy plan to follow. I'm actually quite a roleplayer in most games, a bit of a 'realist' or 'purist'. I like my games to be more immersive, and less spreadsheet. I don't mind EVE's mathuhmaticks, I quite like it, but sometimes it's good to fall back on something to free up space in your mind for something else. Also, the window relocator. Man. I would seriously not be playing EVE without the effortless EVEMon relocator. --------------------------------------------------
Sealiah Minmatar Coffee Lovers Brewing Club Care Factor	Posted - 2010.10.12 10:09:00 - [85] Eve mon is a good thing. Apart from the clone renawal warning allows to just check the perspectives for the future. Make your plan, make the best of EVE as it is now. I personally love eve mon, I don't want to write on paper what kind of skills I want to do, I just put in a goal into a skill planner and later just shove the skills in, sometimes with some side skills to eve. Plus, it's sometimes hard to determine what is the best option at some point, good for eve mon to check and not count manually. You don't like it, great, be quiet, you like it, great, go about your business :)
Krxon Blade	Posted - 2010.10.12 10:31:00 - [86] Originally by: Abaroth Charmar I really don't understand why people, especially noobs, use Evemon... "I don't understand why, therefore I spit on it!" What beautiful attitude you have. So what if you don't understand? There are plenty of us who does. Should we stop using it just because you doesn't? EVEmon also helps with easier attributes remapping, provides loads if fitting info's with links to forum discussions. It looks, works and its regularly updated like commercial applications, which means a lot of efforts from its author(s). Anyway, did you made anything useful for community by yourself? BTW. kudos to all involved in EVEmon project. \o/ -- Eve Online related stuff
Krispy Dingo Minmatar Strangers in a Strange Land	Posted - 2010.10.14 20:55:00 - [87] How is planning for the future not making the most of right now? If these n00b5 are sitting, spinning in station for that entire time, then they shouldn't be playing in the first place. EVEMon is a tool and a time saver, nothing more. Skills will never make you nber 1337, you have to get your ass out there and play the damn game. And the only reason I use EVEMon is because, while EVEHQ runs in Wine on my Mac now, it is barely running at best and like utter garbage. _____________________________ http://twitter.com/krispy_dingo http://krispydingo.com
Jennifer Starling	Posted - 2010.10.14 20:56:00 - [88] Originally by: Krispy Dingo If these n00b5 are sitting, spinning in station for that entire time, then they shouldn't be playing in the first place. Hey, station spinners are also paying customers!!
T'Laar Bok	Posted - 2010.10.14 21:03:00 - [89] Without Evemon I wouldn't know that I only have 6d 8m 24s before I can make a meaningful contribution to this thread.


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