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Rann Sum	Posted - 2010.10.18 23:48:00 - [1] Is this skill worth training (10 days) for a minmatar pilot?
Vins Chicago Gallente Regent Laboratories	Posted - 2010.10.18 23:51:00 - [2] It's worth training by every pilot.
Tigerras Smash Incorporated	Posted - 2010.10.19 00:43:00 - [3] /agreed worth it for everyone.
Plastician Invictus Australis BricK sQuAD.	Posted - 2010.10.19 01:04:00 - [4] Agreed. 10 days is nothing compared to the gain you get.
I likegirls Minmatar	Posted - 2010.10.19 02:08:00 - [5] Especially Minmatar. Example would be that it is nice to have with Vagabonds with pulsing mwd's ;)
Trebor Whettam	Posted - 2010.10.19 04:10:00 - [6] Originally by: I likegirls Especially Minmatar. Example would be that it is nice to have with Vagabonds with pulsing mwd's ;) Especially everybody, but especially, especially Amarr.
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.10.19 11:50:00 - [7] Originally by: Vins Chicago It's worth training by every pilot. Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
Sergeant Spot Galactic Geographic BookMark Surveying Inc.	Posted - 2010.10.19 21:53:00 - [8] If you engage in combat in Eve (PvP or PvE), the yes, level 5 is very very very worth it. Play nice while you butcher each other.
Jennifer Starling	Posted - 2010.10.20 07:44:00 - [9] Another 100 skills are also very much worth it, as are 100 other implants. It's not a skill that you can't afford to miss for the 1st few years, it's no prerequisite for anything and it doesn't help you fitting ships better.
Plastician Invictus Australis BricK sQuAD.	Posted - 2010.10.20 08:01:00 - [10] Originally by: Jennifer Starling Another 100 skills are also very much worth it, as are 100 other implants. It's not a skill that you can't afford to miss for the 1st few years, it's no prerequisite for anything and it doesn't help you fitting ships better. A few years? Are you joking? If you do any kind of combat, extra cap can mean life or death. Agreed, there are skills I would train first, but definitely within the first year.

Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.10.20 09:29:00 - [11] Originally by: Jennifer Starling Another 100 skills are also very much worth it, as are 100 other implants. It's not a skill that you can't afford to miss for the 1st few years, it's no prerequisite for anything and it doesn't help you fitting ships better. You're flat out wrong. Energy Management is right after fitting skills in the 5 queue. Cap = life Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
Sam Bowein Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2010.10.20 13:11:00 - [12] Originally by: Malcanis You're flat out wrong. Energy Management is right after fitting skills in the 5 queue. Cap = life Sure, but a lot of setups rely on cap boosters (even for PVE), and that makes it a lot less important
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.10.20 13:25:00 - [13] Edited by: Tippia on 20/10/2010 13:28:26 Originally by: Sam Bowein Originally by: Malcanis You're flat out wrong. Energy Management is right after fitting skills in the 5 queue. Cap = life Sure, but a lot of setups rely on cap boosters (even for PVE), and that makes it a lot less important Not really. The presence of cap boosters might make Energy Systems Operations less valuable, since you're largely exchanging the inherent cap regen with the booster charges, but Energy Managment provides cap buffer, and cap boosters are not a useful replacement for that buffer. Energy Management is 3× harder to train for a reasonà ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Sebastiann Kane	Posted - 2010.10.22 11:24:00 - [14] Originally by: Plastician Agreed. 10 days is nothing compared to the gain you get. This
Sessym Amarr	Posted - 2010.10.22 14:49:00 - [15] Everything that gets you capacitor is worth training. You'll realize this the first time when you inject the last drops of your cap to your tank or mwd to survive. Cap boosters aren't an excuse - you run out of them. 0= - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 'So grab your guns.'
Khalessa	Posted - 2010.10.22 18:02:00 - [16] The answer to your question is: Yes absofreakinglutely!
RavenPaine	Posted - 2010.10.22 21:32:00 - [17] "only" 10 days makes it a bargain IMO.
Jenny Biomass	Posted - 2010.10.23 03:09:00 - [18] Originally by: Plastician 10 days is nothing compared to the gain you get.
I likegirls Minmatar	Posted - 2010.10.23 06:19:00 - [19] Originally by: Trebor Whettam Originally by: I likegirls Especially Minmatar. Example would be that it is nice to have with Vagabonds with pulsing mwd's ;) Especially everybody, but especially, especially Amarr. Yes, because those are minmatar ships.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.10.23 09:52:00 - [20] Originally by: I likegirls Originally by: Trebor Whettam Originally by: I likegirls Especially Minmatar. Example would be that it is nice to have with Vagabonds with pulsing mwd's ;) Especially everybody, but especially, especially Amarr. Yes, because those are minmatar ships. àwhich is why especially especially Amarr need to train the skill. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki

Scorpyn Inimical Eclipse	Posted - 2010.10.23 12:07:00 - [21] The only time I can think of when it's not worth it is if you're only running passive shield tanks.
Jenny Cameron Caldari	Posted - 2010.10.23 12:27:00 - [22] Edited by: Jenny Cameron on 23/10/2010 12:36:02 I'm not sure either if I should train it now or later, it's still 10D 2H 30M and I still have so much other skills to train. It also means 10 more days towards your T2 weapons or cruiser V. 5% more cap to start with, I think there's not that much cases for even an armor tank where cap rechargers (20% faster recharge), cap power relays (20% faster recharge) or cap boosters, cap rigs wouldn't make a far, far bigger difference. I just ask myself in how many cases does it happen that those extra 5% really makes the difference? I can't imagine it can possibly be very often. I wouldn't give it such a high priority. Not saying it's not worth the time but there's a lot of skills that are worth it even more. If you're talking Minmi ships and MWDs I'd say High Speed maneuvering would be more important as you can fit t2 and use a lot less cap all the time. Or the same thing: Shield Compensation for shield boost bonussed ships.
Naradius DEATHFUNK	Posted - 2010.10.23 15:08:00 - [23] Originally by: Jenny Cameron Edited by: Jenny Cameron on 23/10/2010 12:36:02 5% more cap to start with, I think there's not that much cases for even an armor tank where cap rechargers (20% faster recharge), cap power relays (20% faster recharge) or cap boosters, cap rigs wouldn't make a far, far bigger difference. I just ask myself in how many cases does it happen that those extra 5% really makes the difference? I can't imagine it can possibly be very often. I wouldn't give it such a high priority. Not saying it's not worth the time but there's a lot of skills that are worth it even more. If you're talking Minmi ships and MWDs I'd say High Speed maneuvering would be more important as you can fit t2 and use a lot less cap all the time. Or the same thing: Shield Compensation for shield boost bonussed ships. It's the people who actually invest the time (and patience) in Lvl 5's who will always have the upper hand...no matter if it gives them 5% or 2% advantage. Power Management 5 is worth training now - it gives you extra for shields, MWD's, warping and almost every other module. TBH, anybody who doubts 10 days of Energy Management 5 is worth it, is going to have a fit when they come to Battleship 5 or a Weapon Specialization 5 skill.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.10.23 15:27:00 - [24] Originally by: Jenny Cameron 5% more cap to start with, I think there's not that much cases for even an armor tank where cap rechargers (20% faster recharge), cap power relays (20% faster recharge) or cap boosters, cap rigs wouldn't make a far, far bigger difference. àexcept that none of those mods provide the benefit as Energy Management does: cap buffer. Quote: I just ask myself in how many cases does it happen that those extra 5% really makes the difference? I can't imagine it can possibly be very often. It happens any time you get hit with a neut/nos and every time you fit a cap boosterà so, quite often. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Jenny Cameron Caldari	Posted - 2010.10.23 16:57:00 - [25] Edited by: Jenny Cameron on 23/10/2010 16:59:26 I'm not saying that training that skill is useless. I'm just wondering when exactly it takes precedence over other skills. I mean: it¦s not the 1st skill you¦ll train to V as rookie. Eventually everyone will want to train it because every ship uses cap, but not before you have a lot of other skills to IV or V. This character is from february 2010 and I have no intention to train that skill to V before somewhere next year.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.10.23 17:33:00 - [26] Originally by: Jenny Cameron I'm just wondering when exactly it takes precedence over other skills. I mean: it¦s not the 1st skill you¦ll train to V as rookie. Eventually everyone will want to train it because every ship uses cap, but not before you have a lot of other skills to IV or V. I'd say it's definitely one of the first V:s you should get. It goes right up there with the rest of the "basic ship attribute" skills (Electronics, Mechanic, Engineering and the like, quite possibly even before Hull upgrades and Shield Management)à somewhere around the time right before you start dipping your toes in your first T2 ships and weaponry. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Dirk Mortice	Posted - 2010.10.23 17:43:00 - [27] Cap = Life
Limdood	Posted - 2010.10.25 15:57:00 - [28] fitting skills (engineering, electronics) buffer skills (shield management, mechanic, hull upgrades) cap skills (energy systems operation, energy management) nav skills (navigation, evasive maneuvering) those make up that "core" of skills that EVERY ship uses. There are very very very few ships where you can say "no, that 5% extra honestly doesn't and will never help me." because those skills are so friggin useful for so many ships, they tend to be trained and lauded as "must haves" by most EVE pilots. do you need those skills? probably not Are there skills that will give your current ship a bigger bonus at the moment? probably are these skills worth training up to V sooner, rather than later? I'd say yes! Again, there is the "affects ALL ships" component of these skills that makes them feel more useful in the long run than medium projectile turret V or standard missiles V
Gottii Minmatar Lutinari Syndicate Electus Matari	Posted - 2010.10.26 06:18:00 - [29] Originally by: Dirk Mortice Cap = Life
AkJon Ferguson JC Ferguson and Son Ltd	Posted - 2010.11.01 06:30:00 - [30] Energy Systems Operation is much more vital to get to V (because it's a x1 skill instead of a x3 skill.) The odds of losing a fight solely because you only had Energy Management IV instead of V are pretty tiny. Is it worth training eventually? For sure. As for timing, it really depends on your goals for your toon but waiting a year for your int/mem remap to get it from IV to V is probably best for most.

Orion GUardian Caldari	Posted - 2010.11.01 08:57:00 - [31] OK: 1. The Skill is a must in the middle run! 2. For a new Character it still might be fine to remain at IV if he still has to train for Learning skills, fitting skills his actual Ship etc. The last 5% are crucial and the skill is worth every Minute of the 10 days. Even for Minmatar.
Squirrrel Gallente Squirrrel Industries	Posted - 2010.11.05 14:25:00 - [32] If there was an Energy Management skill L6, I'd train it, so yes as it's a core support skill for any pilot who flies a ship and not a desk.
Baneken Gallente School of the Unseen	Posted - 2010.11.05 14:35:00 - [33] What the skill does is that it frees you from fitting and extra cap recharger/rig so you can definitely do without V in the skill but considering it's only a rank 1 skill there's no reason not to train it. http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
Mona X Caldari	Posted - 2010.11.05 15:24:00 - [34] Edited by: Mona X on 05/11/2010 15:26:39 nvm Join Eve-Online, meet interesting people, grief them.
jerichot Cutish Brunts	Posted - 2010.11.06 00:18:00 - [35] Edited by: jerichot on 06/11/2010 00:19:50 Before to push energy management to 5 , train all the necessary support skills ( rank 1 and 2 ) to lvl 5 first , like eng, electronics, armor repair, hull upgrade, energy operation. Once you have those important rank1/2 support skills to 5, then go for energy management. Difference between T2 guns and energy management is that energy management will serve you all the times no matter which ship you're in. Cap booster helps indeed but they are in no way any substitute for energy skills.
Aamrr	Posted - 2010.11.10 11:58:00 - [36] I would prioritize it somewhere between T2 medium guns and T2 large guns.
Jennifer Starling Amarr	Posted - 2010.11.10 12:31:00 - [37] Originally by: Baneken What the skill does is that it frees you from fitting and extra cap recharger/rig so you can definitely do without V in the skill but considering it's only a rank 1 skill there's no reason not to train it. It's a Rank 3 skill. And it adds 5%, not 15-20% like a CCC rig or 20% for a cap recharger.
Baneken Gallente School of the Unseen	Posted - 2010.11.10 13:54:00 - [38] Originally by: Jennifer Starling It's a Rank 3 skill. And it adds 5%, not 15-20% like a CCC rig or 20% for a cap recharger. Of which some 10-15% goes over for what is needed to be cap stable thus often saving you a module/rig slot when trained. http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
Salpad Carebears with Attitude	Posted - 2010.11.10 14:13:00 - [39] Originally by: Rann Sum Is this skill worth training (10 days) for a minmatar pilot? Electronics and Engineering are more important, but yes. Both the capacitor skillz are among the most important in EVE. -- Salpad C.E.O., Carebears with Attitude
Salpad Carebears with Attitude	Posted - 2010.11.10 14:19:00 - [40] Originally by: Jennifer Starling Another 100 skills are also very much worth it, as are 100 other implants. It's not a skill that you can't afford to miss for the 1st few years, it's no prerequisite for anything and it doesn't help you fitting ships better. For certain fits, like PVP tackle Merlin (which will die quickly either way), and PVE Drake (which is passive shield tanked), Energy Management 4 may be sufficient. Those are exceptions, and even in both those cases, Energy MAnagement to 5 still helps; it's just a question of priority. I once wrote a list of about 8 skillz that every EVE pilot should train to level 5, and a further 3 or so that everyone should be trained to 4. That list is for internal use in my corp, andto be shared with a few non-corp friends as I see fit, but there are no brilliant insights on it. All veteran players would agree that all those skillz on my list (if they got to see it) are very worthy indeed. And mind you, it's a list of eight skillz, not 100 skillz. Many veteran pilots may take exception to the absence of some skillz on my list. They might claim that the list of mandatory skillz, of "train-these-as-quickly-as-possible", should contain not 8 but 10 or 11 skillz. But all will, I am certain, agree with me that the list is short, and that the number of skillz on the list is much closer to 8 than to 100. -- Salpad C.E.O., Carebears with Attitude

Salpad Carebears with Attitude	Posted - 2010.11.10 14:22:00 - [41] Originally by: Dirk Mortice Cap = Life Actually in World of Warcraft parlance, cap = mana (or rage, or energy). It's the stuff you use to do stuff. -- Salpad C.E.O., Carebears with Attitude
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.11.10 14:29:00 - [42] Originally by: Jennifer Starling Originally by: Baneken What the skill does is that it frees you from fitting and extra cap recharger/rig so you can definitely do without V in the skill but considering it's only a rank 1 skill there's no reason not to train it. It's a Rank 3 skill. And it adds 5%, not 15-20% like a CCC rig or 20% for a cap recharger. None of those do what Energy Management does, so it's not quite comparable. You rather want to compare it to cap batteries and memory cells. àalso, if you want to make that kind of comparison, it adds 4.2%, not 5%. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Lardeliini	Posted - 2010.11.10 19:20:00 - [43] Originally by: Salpad Originally by: Jennifer Starling Another 100 skills are also very much worth it, as are 100 other implants. It's not a skill that you can't afford to miss for the 1st few years, it's no prerequisite for anything and it doesn't help you fitting ships better. For certain fits, like PVP tackle Merlin (which will die quickly either way), and PVE Drake (which is passive shield tanked), Energy Management 4 may be sufficient. Those are exceptions, and even in both those cases, Energy MAnagement to 5 still helps; it's just a question of priority. I once wrote a list of about 8 skillz that every EVE pilot should train to level 5, and a further 3 or so that everyone should be trained to 4. That list is for internal use in my corp, andto be shared with a few non-corp friends as I see fit, but there are no brilliant insights on it. All veteran players would agree that all those skillz on my list (if they got to see it) are very worthy indeed. And mind you, it's a list of eight skillz, not 100 skillz. Many veteran pilots may take exception to the absence of some skillz on my list. They might claim that the list of mandatory skillz, of "train-these-as-quickly-as-possible", should contain not 8 but 10 or 11 skillz. But all will, I am certain, agree with me that the list is short, and that the number of skillz on the list is much closer to 8 than to 100. Could you please stop using the word skillz. It hurts my eyes.
Othran Brutor tribe	Posted - 2010.11.11 14:54:00 - [44] Originally by: Malcanis You're flat out wrong. Energy Management is right after fitting skills in the 5 queue. We'll have to agree to differ on this. I'm a pure minmatar PvP character and I won't be training that until April 2011. Never missed it on any ship from frigates to HACs. It simply isn't a requirement.
Plocsk	Posted - 2010.11.11 15:29:00 - [45] It's a skill that benefits every ship you can possibly fly. Why would you NOT train it?
Flapkonijn BLACK LIGHTNING MINING CREW	Posted - 2010.11.11 16:52:00 - [46] Originally by: Rann Sum Is this skill worth training (10 days) for a minmatar pilot? (kicking in my own doors i know but...) Why oh why is this thread still going? Energy Managament V is among the CORE skills for any race any ship and any activity involving a ship... So unless you wanna do Science or Marketing then learn it...
Othran Brutor tribe	Posted - 2010.11.11 18:59:00 - [47] Originally by: Flapkonijn Energy Managament V is among the CORE skills for any race any ship and any activity involving a ship... So unless you wanna do Science or Marketing then learn it... Othran has 33mill SP in pretty much nothing but minmatar PvP skills. He doesn't have Energy Management 5. He doesn't have Controlled Burst 3 (note to self, train it up) He can fly inty5, af5, eaf5, dictor5, hictor4, bc4, recon4, hac5 and so on WELL. I mean in terms of skills anyway, in-game motivation is a bit lacking these days. No requirement for energy management 5. None. Minmatar pilots would be much better putting their skills into AWU5 rather than Energy Management 5 because that's the only way you'll be able to fit a vaga without a PG4 implant. Pilots flying the decent minnie ships (ie below BS) don't really need to worry about cap until you're looking at Sleips and what not. NB - I'm talking PvP only here, not PVE.
Salpad Carebears with Attitude	Posted - 2010.11.11 20:32:00 - [48] Originally by: Plocsk It's a skill that benefits every ship you can possibly fly. Why would you NOT train it? Nobody is saying it shouldn't be trained at all. The dispute is whether it is sufficient to train it to level 4, and then stay with that for 12-18 months, or whether it should be trained to level 5 within, say, the first 4 months of playing. -- Salpad C.E.O., Carebears with Attitude
Nikolai Kondratiev Sphere Design Inc.	Posted - 2010.11.11 20:48:00 - [49] It's certainly not a "ZOMG I NEED RIGHT NAO! RIGHT AWAY!!!" skill like Elec/Engi/AWU can be for fitting ships (or anything that is a pre-req for some good stuff). And when you find a reason to want 4.2% extra capacitor, train it to 5, it won't take THAT long. _ Mining Crystal BPOs Angel Ships
Jennifer Starling Amarr	Posted - 2010.11.12 14:26:00 - [50] Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 12/11/2010 14:26:29 Originally by: Plocsk It's a skill that benefits every ship you can possibly fly. Why would you NOT train it? There's lots of skill that benefit all ships or make it easier to fit them. Doesn't mean you'll want to train them all to V in your first year. Next to that there's a lot of ships that hardy use cap and are cap stable at 80% with an AB, especially Matar and Caldari ships. I can imagine you can have other priorities to spend those 10 days on.

Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.11.12 16:54:00 - [51] Originally by: Othran Pilots flying the decent minnie ships (ie below BS) don't really need to worry about cap until you're looking at Sleips and what not. NB - I'm talking PvP only here, not PVE. àat which point you'll sooner or later come across a whole bunch of neuts, where every last bit of extra cap (yes, including the extra 4.2% from EM V) is a godsend. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Devil tiger	Posted - 2010.11.13 08:47:00 - [52] Edited by: Devil tiger on 13/11/2010 08:47:44 Originally by: Othran [ Othran has 33mill SP in pretty much nothing but minmatar PvP skills. He doesn't have Controlled Burst 3 (note to self, train it up) He can fly inty5, af5, eaf5, dictor5, hictor4, bc4, recon4, hac5 and so on WELL. I mean in terms of skills anyway, in-game NB - I'm talking PvP only here, not PVE. Allows better control over the capacitor use of weapon turrets. 5% reduction in capacitor need of weapon turrets per skill level. Then why on earth would you waste skill points on skill you NEVER get anything from if you're so Minmatar oriented? Projectiles don't use cap, only grid and that's when they're being fitted and it doesn't effect missile launchers.


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