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Zondran
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Posted - 2005.01.06 12:49:00 -
[1]
No need to say much. All ships relying to ammo or missiles, especially bs, suffer from the need to carry ammo. You have to overload your cargo when going for longer missions or deepspace hunting and even then you will run out of ammo very fast. I think CCP should add a special bay to all ships which has the capability to load a big load of any ammo needed. I see no real use in the current limitations, its only annoying, nothing more nothing less. Please consider a change making a lot of players lifes more comfortable.
thx 
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Elandur
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Posted - 2005.01.06 12:55:00 -
[2]
That would be nice. I'm tired of having a large chunk of my cargo hold being taken up by missiles. It wasn't bad when I used light missiles, but now that I use heavy missiles, the blow to my cargo hold is very noticeable. Either I have to go back for more missiles too often or I have to go back to drop off loot.
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Seraphim X
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Posted - 2005.01.06 12:59:00 -
[3]
signed
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Avon
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Posted - 2005.01.06 13:01:00 -
[4]
Denied. One of the balancing factors of weapons is ammo requirements. If a Raven could haul a billion torps it would be uber. ______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots. They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |

w0rmy
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Posted - 2005.01.06 13:06:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Avon Denied. One of the balancing factors of weapons is ammo requirements. If a Raven could haul a billion torps it would be uber.
So ballance the ammo bays. Problem solved
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Avon
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Posted - 2005.01.06 13:26:00 -
[6]
Originally by: w0rmy
Originally by: Avon Denied. One of the balancing factors of weapons is ammo requirements. If a Raven could haul a billion torps it would be uber.
So ballance the ammo bays. Problem solved
Yeah, you could make them exactly the same size as the ships cargo bay. You could call it, um, "Cargo Hold".
That'd work.
 ______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots. They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |

w0rmy
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Posted - 2005.01.06 13:29:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Avon
Yeah, you could make them exactly the same size as the ships cargo bay. You could call it, um, "Cargo Hold".
That'd work.

And since we're calling Ammo bays cargo holds, lets start giving other things totally random names also 
We have a drone bay for drones
We have a cargo hold for cargo
OMG This may just sound out there and crazy to you...
But lets have an Ammo bay for Ammo.
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Erai
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Posted - 2005.01.06 13:37:00 -
[8]
Hm... Idea lab, I should say.
Although I don't think this would add much to the game. Ammo bay space would probably be detracted from cargo space, projectile-, hybrid-, and missile- users would be miffed because they would be able to carry less ordnance, and laser users would be peeved because the space in the ammo bay would not have any use at all for them.
------------------------------------------ My bio
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Calsak
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Posted - 2005.01.06 13:47:00 -
[9]
Hardly up to any player to approve or deny a suggestion or request from another player. Here's my two penny on it.
Can't really see the point as its 'a rose by any other name...' etc but if it was included I'd think the following restrictions should apply:
Unable to load weapons from Cargo hold, only from the Ammo bay Only able to access Ammo bay in dock.
UKCorp Website -- Guest Book |

Zondran
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Posted - 2005.01.06 13:52:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Avon Denied. One of the balancing factors of weapons is ammo requirements. If a Raven could haul a billion torps it would be uber.
I don't really get the point ?! So the balancing on raven is, let them run out of ammo ? intresting thought . This is not about balancing at all, its only about convenience.
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Shintai
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Posted - 2005.01.06 14:38:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Avon Denied. One of the balancing factors of weapons is ammo requirements. If a Raven could haul a billion torps it would be uber.
Like the laser users that donŠt have to use the cap injectors as first thought?
Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry |

Avon
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Posted - 2005.01.06 14:56:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Shintai
Originally by: Avon Denied. One of the balancing factors of weapons is ammo requirements. If a Raven could haul a billion torps it would be uber.
Like the laser users that donŠt have to use the cap injectors as first thought?
Missiles use no cap, need ammo, do reliable (and high) damage. Lasers use lots of cap, don't need ammo, do highly varied (but sometimes impressive) damage.
Like I said, ONE of the balancing factors.
 ______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots. They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |

Calsak
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Posted - 2005.01.06 15:14:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Calsak on 06/01/2005 15:15:03 Perhaps the balancing factor is already in Eve. If you want to carry more ammo, increase the size of your cargo hold with expanders. But obviously you take a 'balancing' hit on speed and structure and a low-slot but you can keep hitting back when the other guy has run out of ammo.
After all it would be hard to justify suddenly 'finding' a huge expance in a battleship which wasn't used before so we'll fit a ammo bay in there. 
UKCorp Website -- Guest Book |

SwitchBl4d3
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Posted - 2005.01.06 15:23:00 -
[14]
id rather have ammo switching GUI. ammo swith in lag = gh3yday wacka day "Teh lord of Nonni"
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Reash
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Posted - 2005.01.06 15:24:00 -
[15]
Perhaps just a seperate folder that still used the cargo hold space would be good? As personally when ratting i get annoyed when my loot mixes with crystals or Ammo and i have to sort though it...its a little thing but its a little alternative to what is suggested here. ------------------------------------------------- Defend Amarr space, join the Auctoritan Syndicate today |

Helplessandlost
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Posted - 2005.01.06 15:25:00 -
[16]
No, i have no problem carrying enough ammo for any missions - you look at the type of mission, do the math and load that much. Just need to do the logistics.
Check us out
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BoBoZoBo
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Posted - 2005.01.06 15:26:00 -
[17]
*Signed
Always wanted this.. fully automated
=========================
Operator 9 |

Pride NL
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Posted - 2005.01.06 15:26:00 -
[18]
2 words: Cargo Expander
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Sorja
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Posted - 2005.01.06 15:31:00 -
[19]
No way !
Play in group with ammo haulers 
Oops, bumped 
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Joshua Foiritain
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Posted - 2005.01.06 15:33:00 -
[20]
Putting ammo in your cargo hold next tthat putonium and those slaves prolly isnt the best place for them 
Ammo bays would be cool. ---------------------------
[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |

Soren
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Posted - 2005.01.06 15:44:00 -
[21]
It's not really needed IMO, although if they did impliment it, you shouldn't be able to reload from the cargo bay. _________________________________________________________
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Germain
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Posted - 2005.01.06 15:46:00 -
[22]
Like the idea of a ammo folder (clip) in the cargo hold. but if you have runs in certain areas for NPC or pirating, put out secure cargo contaners. With ammo in them all over the place this will help. if you know that in the area where you fight you see more NPC/ppl that have certain ammo needs eg. phased plamsa better to kill with then you can store that at safe points. the largest secure containers have lots of space in them for all types of ammo and missiles also good place to dump NPC loot as well, and then come back in your indie or whatever to resupply and pick up loot. I thought this was what them logistic ship were for were for logistics. you could also setup a mobile ammo shop.
Just a thought.
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ChironV
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Posted - 2005.01.06 16:11:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Avon Denied. One of the balancing factors of weapons is ammo requirements. If a Raven could haul a billion torps it would be uber.
Bay could be a sub organizational unit of total cargo capacity. In this game seconds count, so having a weapons only bay helps if we need to see at a glance what we have in stock, rather than spending many extra seconds looking through our entire Cargo hold.
________________________________________________ It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion,
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Grievance
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Posted - 2005.01.06 17:49:00 -
[24]
nerf the laser users cargo hold then, or make the crystals take up 20m3 each.
laser users use what, 10% of their hold with crystals? on missiles, and even turret users its more like 75%, thats if you carry enough ammo for a few battles, with different ranges.
'A man with a passion for Pirate fashion.' |

Tadius Rhain
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Posted - 2005.01.06 18:22:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Calsak ...the following restrictions should apply: Unable to load weapons from Cargo hold, only from the Ammo bay Only able to access Ammo bay in dock.
The way I have always seen ammo bays is- Ammo can be loaded while docked
- Ammo can be loaded by escort ship(/industrial) from escort ship's cargo hold to target ships ammo bay via new high slot module
- Ammo can't be moved from my cargohold to my ammo bay while in-flight.
- As a backstory ammo bays would be unshielded cargoholds which justifies their being incompatible with cargoholds. This means you can't for example exchange cargo hold for ammo space or vice-versa. Also, ammo bays have loading mechanisms connecting to your weapons where the cargohold does not.
Why do it?
- Seperate ammo from cargo, making it easier to manage in combat.
- Fix counter-intuative ammo sizes
Currently we've got: crystals 1m3, 100 medium charges 5m3, 100 rockets 1m3, 100 heavy missiles 15m3, 100 torpedos 60m3... 
- Allow devs to specify something like "This ship can have
X units of Torpedo class OR Y units of Cruise class OR A units of Defender AND Z units of Light class OR B units of Defender AND 10k Large ammo" etc. This is just a quick example, don't freak!
- This permits more complex ship balancing (devs
, players ).
It will of course create problems taking time to balance and get used to but it could be nice. It might push people more towards using weapons native to the ship's race - Amarr ships would have very small ammo bays for the crystals. Dunno if this is a good or bad thing tbh. ____________________________________________ Ideas Lab - Forum Search Feature - Sign me! |

Marcus Grisbius
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Posted - 2005.01.06 18:38:00 -
[26]
No!!!! Cargo is cargo whether it's going to be put in your guns or not. You have a choice to carry what you have in your guns or use some of your cargohold to haul extra.
By doing something like that you force people to use racial guns. Not all caldari ships use only missiles, not all amarr ships use all lasers. Start assigning ammo bays and you lose much of the variety in ship setups.
HOW IN THE WORLD CAN YOU CONFUSE YOUR CARGO WITH YOUR AMMO!!!! Geez, I've never had the problem of loading an Alpha Hull Mod Expander or a ECCM 1 in my 425's. What are you doing dragging and dropping ammo from your cargo into the guns? There's a drop down menu when you right click your gun that shows what kind of ammo you have available and how much.
If you need more ammo take a hauler along with you or make shorter trips. Shoot all the ammo to make room for loot. 
Certainty of death... little chance of success... what are we waiting for? - Gimli, son of Gloinn |

Iachrites Archveult
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Posted - 2005.01.06 18:53:00 -
[27]
The comparison of an 'ammo bay' with the drone bay seems superficially to be a good one. Alas, it ignores the central function of the drone bay: to set a defined limit on the number of any given class of drones a ship can carry.
That this is the reason we have drone bays (rather than them simply going in cargo) is confirmed, in my view, by the existence of cargo expanders and, more pertinently, the non-existence of drone bay expanding modules.
Given this fact, I would say be careful what you wish for...
Iac
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Grievance
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Posted - 2005.01.06 18:58:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Marcus Grisbius By doing something like that you force people to use racial guns. Not all caldari ships use only missiles, not all amarr ships use all lasers. Start assigning ammo bays and you lose much of the variety in ship setups.

Ok then, just increase the size of frequency crystals then. It's silly that the focussing crystal for a light weapon is the same size as one for a large (unlike ANY other ammo in eve).
20m3 sounds about right for large, meaning that if you carry 3 sets of 8 crystals in your apoc's hold, it'll take up 480m3, considering they last forever, and i can burn through 480m3 worth of missiles in about 2 hours, its not that bad.
'A man with a passion for Pirate fashion.' |

Oberon Oblique
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Posted - 2005.01.06 19:04:00 -
[29]
great idea.
allows you to separate what to shoot vs loot.
it would just be a partition in place (mabey even user defined) in you cargo capacity. -The mind is strong and the flesh is weak, but oh the flesh... |

Tadius Rhain
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Posted - 2005.01.06 19:04:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Marcus Grisbius OMGFILPOUT!
Marcus, please take a deep breath... (and calm the **** down)
Who said only caldari ships use missiles?
Firstly, My SIMPLE example above just shows that CCP could, for play balancing reasons, restrict the number of missiles an Omen carries. They could also allow it to hold double its current cargohold without actually impacting on the real cargo hold at all.
Secondly, I don't 'confuse' my cargo with ammo. Haven't you ever been forced to scroll through your cargo bay to find your ammo amongst all that loot? Why bother? Why not just have another tab that seperates ammo from cargo?  ____________________________________________ Ideas Lab - Forum Search Feature - Sign me! |

Tadius Rhain
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Posted - 2005.01.06 19:05:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Grievance 20m3 sounds about right for large...
THAT'S A MIGHTY BIG CRYSTAL, SIR!
Again, why bother with retarded values that mean nothing when you could just do it properly? ____________________________________________ Ideas Lab - Forum Search Feature - Sign me! |

Grievance
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Posted - 2005.01.06 19:07:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Tadius Rhain
Originally by: Grievance 20m3 sounds about right for large...
THAT'S A MIGHTY BIG CRYSTAL, SIR!
Again, why bother with retarded values that mean nothing when you could just do it properly?
hehe, i agree with you about the ammo bay, my point was just to illistrate that the alternative (which IMO actually balances them considering lasers infinate rounds), is not so pretty :)
'A man with a passion for Pirate fashion.' |

Marcus Grisbius
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Posted - 2005.01.06 19:36:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Tadius Rhain
Originally by: Marcus Grisbius OMGFILPOUT!
Look at me I can edit quotes too! 
No, I've never had a problem with confusing ammo with loot in my cargo. Sort by type and ammo is up at the top and all the other junk is below it. Besides you can always right click your gun to check your ammo.
Stop supporting a pointless request because you cant even figure out how to look through your cargo for the sole reason that you're to lazy.
Btw, if you added ammo bays that were balanced for each race, then you would have caldari ships that would only use missiles.
Certainty of death... little chance of success... what are we waiting for? - Gimli, son of Gloinn |

Tadius Rhain
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Posted - 2005.01.06 19:44:00 -
[34]
Marcus: You make too many asumptions and you don't see the possibilities. Your post was not constructive in any way. I'm off to bed. G'night. ____________________________________________ Ideas Lab - Forum Search Feature - Sign me! |

RollinDutchMasters
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Posted - 2005.01.06 20:16:00 -
[35]
Edited by: RollinDutchMasters on 06/01/2005 20:16:38 I like it. Give the Megathron an 8000 m3 ammo bay, let it actually have enough room to carry around cap charges that last more then 60 seconds.
P.S. All you raven users that are complaining about ammo size need to kiss my cap-charge-carrying ass.
Originally by: Sochin CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
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Face Lifter
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Posted - 2005.01.06 20:39:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Avon Denied. One of the balancing factors of weapons is ammo requirements. If a Raven could haul a billion torps it would be uber.
please, if you want to talk about balance, lasers don't require ammo and they are the best guns in the game. The need to carry ammo for other guns just makes lasers more overpowered
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Vicker Lahn'se
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Posted - 2005.01.06 21:00:00 -
[37]
Historically, naval ships store ammunition in a separate bay from the cargo bay. Ammunition bays had special requirements, including increased armoring and the ability to be flooded with sea water.
Quote: With the exception of the detonators and dry gun-cotton primers for torpedoes, all ammunition, of whatever character, is stowed in specially constructed rooms set apart for that purpose alone; a few projectiles are often stowed in racks around the gun-emplacements or below decks, where they can be expeditiously supplied to all guns in emergencies; and in turrets and below the turret floors.
I don't see why this shouldn't be included in Eve. This shouldn't limit the type of ammo being carried, as it would be easy to reconfigure the racks to carry a different type of ammo. Ammo holds should be the same size as current cargo holds, ammo should be the only thing that can be stored in the ammo hold, and ammo should not be allowed in the cargo hold.
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JoCool
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Posted - 2005.01.06 21:19:00 -
[38]
Edited by: JoCool on 06/01/2005 21:23:21
Originally by: Avon Denied. One of the balancing factors of weapons is ammo requirements. If a Raven could haul a billion torps it would be uber.
Bull****.
I could finally carry tons of good Vine, some VIPs and Slaves around. :)
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Jennae
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Posted - 2005.01.07 06:11:00 -
[39]
to the guy who balances lasers to missiles...
lasers don't use that much cap.. hybrids use WAY more.
Most blasters run higher cap use, and fire faster, not to mention the ammo is huge. same with projectile ammo (except the cap factor)
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Admiral Seafort
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Posted - 2005.01.07 06:19:00 -
[40]
Well even though this appears to be a good idea, it could make for some balancing nightmares. Also, I'm pretty sure it won't be considered seeing as how the idea of an ammo bay is far from new; it was around even in beta but the devs decided against implementing it.
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Avon
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Posted - 2005.01.07 10:22:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Jennae to the guy who balances lasers to missiles...
lasers don't use that much cap.. hybrids use WAY more.
Most blasters run higher cap use, and fire faster, not to mention the ammo is huge. same with projectile ammo (except the cap factor)
I don't think you are comparing like for like with your turrets, otherwise you would not make such a statement.
425mm railgun - 213.3 cap per minute. Neutron Blaster Cannon - 228.6 cap per minute Tachyon Beam Laser - 456 cap per minute 1400mm Howitzer Art. - 7.6 cap per minute. ______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots. They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |

MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2005.01.07 11:16:00 -
[42]
While I like the "ammobay" concept I have to say that I don't think it would be good balancing wise. IT would make battleships and cruisers too good at cargorunning. Adding an ammobay would be the equivalent of simply buffing their cargoholds.
Mai's Idealog |

Mrmuttley
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Posted - 2005.01.07 11:31:00 -
[43]
A big NO from me
Many ships such as kestrel have larger cargo bays than their counterparts in different races i.e Punisher.
Presumably this is to allow them to carry a load of missiles cause they've only got 4 missile points anf no turrets.
Dunno how the Raven compares to the Apoc but hell if the ship dont suit what you want to do use a different ship.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hmmm I need a Sig |

Necronomicon
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Posted - 2005.01.07 12:34:00 -
[44]
My 2 cents
No.
I fly a Raven, I understand where you are coming from. I want to go into 0.0 to do some hunting, now I have 2 choices.
1. Raven - By far my best ship, but I have the headache of having to ship and store 1000s of cruise/otrps to the general location before I head out, or I will be knackered after a couple of hours.
2. Apoc - Now ammo concerns, but I highly doubt i would last long if I encountered a decent faction/named spawn.
So what do you do?
Starsi dont make Eve Pilots, but if they did, i wouldnt be one of them. |

Andrew Redburn
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Posted - 2005.01.07 12:48:00 -
[45]
I like the ammobay concept. It would allow ships that need cap injectors/missles/ammo to carry additional ammo without troubles and do longer raids/npc hunting.
I see no balancing problem, as the MAIN PROBLEM in PvP is not running out of ammo before the end of the battle, but the RELOAD TIME, which DOES have an impact to ALL ammo users.
Restriction should be similar to drone bay: no use of ammo bay while undocked (that you can't put in ammo you looted). Reloading only from ammo bay.
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Steven Dynahir
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Posted - 2005.01.07 13:03:00 -
[46]
I'm up for ammobays, but with following limitations.
- Can only be accessed at stations - Can only be loaded with ammo and booster charges - Weapons can only load from ammo bay
P.S. Ammo belts with customizable ammo patterns (IE: 1 antimatter, 2 lead, 1 antimatter, 2 lead, ..) and sequenced frequency crystals would be nice addition. SigPl/HQ&Log Coy/MNB(C)/KFOR |

Draysea
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Posted - 2005.01.07 13:12:00 -
[47]
I have to admit that this would be useful, but, I don't think that they need to add an ammo bay to the ships.
A possible solution to this would be: allowing your drone bay to act as an ammo bay.
For example, if you had any ammo whatsoever in your drone bay, it becomes an ammo bay, and can nolonger accept any drones, and should there be a drone or two in there, in cannot accept any ammo.
This would lead to a choice for pilots on whether they want lots of drones, or an extra supply of ammo.
However, if this were a possibility, when it comes down to "balancing", it would have to be ascertained as to whether or not you could load from the ammo bay or the cargo bay since they would both be able to carry ammo.
Since I only use drones in mining ops for defence, I would want to be able to load ammo from the "drone/ammo" bay, then put all the loot in my cargo bay when flying long lvl3 and lvl4 missions.
I never thought about this much, but now that I am thinking about this, I'm really starting to like my idea. However, the problem would be that those ships with "giant" "drone/ammo" bays could stay in space for hours/days without having to return to a station to re-arm. I'm sure that there are many other factors that could p1ss people off about this, but, whenever a change is made, it is always bound to p1ss someone off!
Have fun out there! -Draysea
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Sithlord Revan
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Posted - 2005.01.07 13:42:00 -
[48]
Don't think this would be the best idea.
As much as apoc users have an advantage carrying only 3 sets of crystals (radio, ultraviolet, multifreq?) the need for cap boosters imho balances the cargo space devoted for ammo. Someone flying a raven shooting volleys of missiles wont need a cap booster but an apoc vaporizing targets with 8 tachyons will. ----
My Signature... hmm |
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