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Upcoming drake nerf, train minmitar or amarr?

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Grimpak Gallente The Whitehound Corporation The Chamber of Commerce	Posted - 2010.10.25 14:58:00 - [61] Originally by: Cipher Jones Originally by: Grimpak what was seen from people with some sense of vision is, the drake was getting a nerf sooner or later. now I don't mind a nerf that would make the ship still ok. but knowing CCP, they will pretty much drop a sledgehammer on it. See, that's the thing. they have no sense of vision whatsoever. The (alleged upcoming) balance isn't to nerf the ship, the drake itself. Its to counterbalance the exploit. hey, you're taking this the wrong way. CCP is nerfing the drake because we're saying "OMG DRAKE OP!!11one", but while overpowered, it isn't an exploit. now the problem is, as I said, when CCP decides to nerf something, it hits it with the sledge-nerf-hammer. so yes, did Drake needed a nerf? heck who knows. maybe it's inherent strengths are better used on today's battlefield than yesterday's. Still that doesn't matter, since people are bent on nerfing the drake, because. and as I said, as long as the ship's functionality and usability remains acceptable and on par with it's pairs, it's ok. CCP track record with nerfs however, states otherwise. --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux War.Pigs.	Posted - 2010.10.25 15:21:00 - [62] Edited by: Liang Nuren on 25/10/2010 15:23:45 Originally by: Malcanis I have exactly as much respect for the people whining about drakes now as I had for the people whining about bombers this time last year. None. Two things: - What the hell does that have to do with my post? I was explaining why Drake fleets really could be causing a significant amount of lag and not have been "The BigCause" back when Dominion launched - and why CCP is looking at changing them now. - Weren't you one of the people that have constantly told me for the last 4 years that Drakes were PVE ships? Well, regardless, I told you (pl) so. -Liang Ed: Originally by: Grimpak now the problem is, as I said, when CCP decides to nerf something, it hits it with the sledge-nerf-hammer. Yeah, I'm a bit worried about that too. I'm hoping they nerf it by changing it instead of actually nerf batting it. I do have to admit that I'd be excited by different damage projection from HML and making range bonuses actually matter. The problem is that ships with missile range bonuses tend to have completely jacked fittings (Hi Cerb!). -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter Blog
Leksi Bar'zuk	Posted - 2010.10.25 15:32:00 - [63] Edited by: Leksi Bar''zuk on 25/10/2010 15:33:24 Originally by: Liang Nuren Edited by: Liang Nuren on 25/10/2010 15:23:45 Originally by: Malcanis I have exactly as much respect for the people whining about drakes now as I had for the people whining about bombers this time last year. None. Two things: - What the hell does that have to do with my post? Hmm, I dunno... Originally by: Liang Nuren Furthermore, the Devs are pretty well correct - the Drake is overpowered in that situation. Look like that part to me.
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux War.Pigs.	Posted - 2010.10.25 15:39:00 - [64] Edited by: Liang Nuren on 25/10/2010 15:41:11 Originally by: Leksi Bar'zuk Originally by: Liang Nuren Edited by: Liang Nuren on 25/10/2010 15:23:45 Originally by: Malcanis I have exactly as much respect for the people whining about drakes now as I had for the people whining about bombers this time last year. None. Two things: - What the hell does that have to do with my post? Hmm, I dunno... Originally by: Liang Nuren Furthermore, the Devs are pretty well correct - the Drake is overpowered in that situation. Look like that part to me. Jackass. Hey, I thought I'd underline the part of his post that you seem to have missed. Idiot. -Liang Ed: I'm not whining... that was a statement of fact. -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter Blog
Leksi Bar'zuk	Posted - 2010.10.25 15:56:00 - [65] Edited by: Leksi Bar''zuk on 25/10/2010 16:01:39 Originally by: Liang Nuren Furthermore, the Devs are pretty well correct - the Drake is overpowered in that situation. Sounds a LOT like whining to me. But please do continue to whine under the guise of authoratative posting. I'm just here to call you on it. Business will be booming if you keep to this thread very long. You've lost touch with reality of you think drakes (or drake fleets) are by any definition overpowered. So pull your head out of your ******* for once eh?
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux War.Pigs.	Posted - 2010.10.25 16:29:00 - [66] Originally by: Leksi Bar'zuk Sounds a LOT like whining to me. But please do continue to whine under the guise of authoratative posting. I'm just here to call you on it. Business will be booming if you keep to this thread very long. You've lost touch with reality of you think drakes (or drake fleets) are by any definition overpowered. So pull your head out of your ******* for once eh? The simple fact of the matter is that the Drake has far more EHP, damage, and damage projection in that kind of fight than any other BC, and it dovetails extraordinarily nicely with RR (Scims/Basi). One could argue that it's maybe even custom built for that kind of ranged engagement, except that it doesn't even have to spend a bonus on range. I just hope CCP changes the Drake (as they're suggesting they want to do) instead of nerfing the **** out of it (as they're suggesting they don't want to do). I know they've got a reputation for sledge hammer nerfs, but honestly game balance is better than it's ever been.... hopefully things work out for one of my favorite PVP ships. :) -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter Blog
Leksi Bar'zuk	Posted - 2010.10.25 16:41:00 - [67] Originally by: Liang Nuren The simple fact of the matter is .... hopefully things work out for one of my favorite PVP ships. :) -Liang Opinions...and total bull****. Funny how those go hand in hand.
Trebor Whettam	Posted - 2010.10.25 16:59:00 - [68] Originally by: Leksi Bar'zuk Originally by: Liang Nuren The simple fact of the matter is .... hopefully things work out for one of my favorite PVP ships. :) -Liang Opinions...and total bull****. Funny how those go hand in hand. His post wasn't BS. The drake is obviously exceptionally good at this tactic. The real question is whether or not that warrants a retooling. As others have pointed out, a large gang of amarr battleships, which were popular not too long ago (before the popularity of bomber and ahac fleets), destroys these Drake fleets. In theory, this completes a nice cycle of paper-scissors-rock.
Leksi Bar'zuk	Posted - 2010.10.25 17:08:00 - [69] Edited by: Leksi Bar''zuk on 25/10/2010 17:13:27 Originally by: Trebor Whettam His post wasn't BS. The drake is obviously exceptionally good at this tactic. The real question is whether or not that warrants a retooling. As others have pointed out, a large gang of amarr battleships, which were popular not too long ago (before the popularity of bomber and ahac fleets), destroys these Drake fleets. In theory, this completes a nice cycle of paper-scissors-rock. It's funny because Amarr bs fleets anhillate drake fleets and both are STILL VERY MUCH IN USE. Simply because SOME players are too afriad to undock battleships on a regular basis thanks to "fist" ahac success before doesn't say a thing about drake balance, it says players are still quite afriad of zealots and hotdrops(even when they are not around). We're simply seeing the emergence of a new fleet tactic, one that has weakness, but one that is weak to things that have been made "obsolete" in recent memory (note the quotation marks). Paper covered rock so everyone assumed rock was worthless, then scissors looked OP because everyone was flying paper. When in reality, rock still owned scissors, but with the fallout of the paper scandle, they were afriad to fly rocks again. Liang's post was an opinion and a very uneducated one at that.
Seriously Bored Minmatar	Posted - 2010.10.25 17:09:00 - [70] Originally by: Trebor Whettam In theory, this completes a nice cycle of paper-scissors-rock. Right. There's just a sledgehammer smashing all the rocks right now, so Scissors is king.
omgfreemoniez	Posted - 2010.10.25 17:12:00 - [71] I believe CCP should nerf the ships I do not regularly fly, and buff the ones I do regularly fly. This is because it would make the game balanced more. If you not agree you are a ******. Good day.
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux War.Pigs.	Posted - 2010.10.25 17:37:00 - [72] Originally by: Leksi Bar'zuk Liang's post was an opinion and a very uneducated one at that. I find it amusing that you've deliberately chosen to avoid anything I've actually said. -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter Blog
Leksi Bar'zuk	Posted - 2010.10.25 17:49:00 - [73] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Leksi Bar'zuk Liang's post was an opinion and a very uneducated one at that. I find it amusing that you've deliberately chosen to avoid anything I've actually said. -Liang Really, because I've quoted you in every post. Your subliminal messaging system must be broken. You said (paraphrased): Drakes are overpowered in this situation. Drakes should be changed, not nerfed , but they're overpowered so... clearly they need a nerf. PS: I fly drakes, honest, even if my kb says I dont'.
Muad 'dib Caldari Payable on Death	Posted - 2010.10.25 17:54:00 - [74] they cant touch my missiles in pvp, or i'll kill them all (ingame) with my missiles.
Seriously Bored Minmatar	Posted - 2010.10.25 17:59:00 - [75] Originally by: Leksi Bar'zuk PS: I fly drakes, honest, even if my kb says I dont'. I think you of all people should understand how alts work.
Leksi Bar'zuk	Posted - 2010.10.25 18:03:00 - [76] Originally by: Seriously Bored Originally by: Leksi Bar'zuk PS: I fly drakes, honest, even if my kb says I dont'. I think you of all people should understand how alts work. You're right, I actively pvp on several at the same time. And it is certainly plausible he drake-fleets while roaming in a gallente ship. I mean, what with drakes being essentially an "i win button," and all, jesus can't we just nerf them yet? SO overpowered.
omgfreemoniez	Posted - 2010.10.25 18:08:00 - [77] Nerf the ships I have trouble beating in Pvp! And nerf the ones I don't have trouble beating too! Just for balance's sake!
Leksi Bar'zuk	Posted - 2010.10.25 18:11:00 - [78] Originally by: omgfreemoniez Nerf the ships I have trouble beating in Pvp! QFT Nerf nerf nerf. Liang makes FACTS about ship balance, so I nominate him for the new lead developer. We need a man who's not afriad to make the BAD..er BIG decisions!
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux War.Pigs.	Posted - 2010.10.25 18:12:00 - [79] Originally by: Leksi Bar'zuk Really, because I've quoted you in every post. You're quoting something I have said and then addressing something I didn't say. Quote: Drakes are overpowered in this situation. Drakes should be changed, not nerfed , but they're overpowered so... clearly they need a nerf. That's pretty confusing. Let me make a statement of position: - Drake fleets are pretty overpowered in the situation the devs are complaining about. There is no other battlecruiser that can even come close to what it can do. The combination of DPS, damage projection, mobility, and tank is unbelievable. This has historically been counter balanced by delayed damage at extreme ranges and the prevalence of turret ships. - Drakes are easily the best brawling BC, primarily because of the combination of good damage, amazing EHP, and pretty reasonable mobility. Quote: PS: I fly drakes, honest, even if my kb says I dont'. Funny story: I'm the guy that made and popularized the "Standard HAM" Drake fit, and I've been championing Drakes as good PVP ships basically since their release. Noob. -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter Blog
Leksi Bar'zuk	Posted - 2010.10.25 18:20:00 - [80] Edited by: Leksi Bar''zuk on 25/10/2010 18:26:16 Originally by: Liang Nuren Funny story I agree, that is an accurate descriptor of your posting here. You want to continue on with the standard nerf drake jive or what? The hurricane is the best gtfo bc, does it get a prize too? How about the brutix for being the most cost effective gank ship? You see, we can make up new catergories and place a variety of ships as "best," in their respective groups. We can even debate why one title is worth less than the next. But, what does any of it mean? About **** and squat. Drake fleets are not invincible, ham drakes don't belong in a fleet, and you sir, should stop posting before you loose the last of your credibility.
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux War.Pigs.	Posted - 2010.10.25 18:22:00 - [81] Originally by: Leksi Bar'zuk I agree, that is an accurate descriptor of your posting here. You want to continue on with the standard nerf drake jive or what? I hear the Drake eats babies and smashes kittens. -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter Blog
Berendas Neo Spartans Laconian Syndicate	Posted - 2010.10.25 18:25:00 - [82] Edited by: Berendas on 25/10/2010 18:27:07 Originally by: Liang Nuren The simple fact of the matter is that the Drake has far more EHP, damage, and damage projection in that kind of fight than any other BC, and it dovetails extraordinarily nicely with RR (Scims/Basi). This. Drakes have WAY more going for them than any other single BC, but it's not just in large fleets. You will be hard pressed to find a combination of ships that can beat an equally sized nano-Drake fleet in small gang skirmishes (~6). I have been trying to think of what can beat a nano-Drake gang of the same sized without faction ships and I haven't come up with anything that comes close. That said, I can't wait for the nerf. The Drake is by FAR the best BC in terms of ease of use, range, and tank -- all this without sacrificing much in the way of damage or speed. Drakes deserve to be nerfed plain and simple. Flame on.
Leksi Bar'zuk	Posted - 2010.10.25 18:26:00 - [83] O shi, we've been trolled. Ashton is that you?
Naomi Knight Amarr	Posted - 2010.10.25 19:53:00 - [84] Originally by: Berendas Edited by: Berendas on 25/10/2010 18:27:07 Originally by: Liang Nuren The simple fact of the matter is that the Drake has far more EHP, damage, and damage projection in that kind of fight than any other BC, and it dovetails extraordinarily nicely with RR (Scims/Basi). This. Drakes have WAY more going for them than any other single BC, but it's not just in large fleets. You will be hard pressed to find a combination of ships that can beat an equally sized nano-Drake fleet in small gang skirmishes (~6). I have been trying to think of what can beat a nano-Drake gang of the same sized without faction ships and I haven't come up with anything that comes close. That said, I can't wait for the nerf. The Drake is by FAR the best BC in terms of ease of use, range, and tank -- all this without sacrificing much in the way of damage or speed. Drakes deserve to be nerfed plain and simple. Flame on. Lol sure ... drakes need a boost not a nerf come on its cargo space is too small :I so even if drake is the best( which isnt) in bc class that doesnt mean it needs a nerf just like matar op ships
Stinko McCoy	Posted - 2010.10.25 20:03:00 - [85] So basically some dev alt lost a really expensive ship to a drake gang blob and couldn't fight back. Poor cheap Drakes finally get a break into mainstream pvp desire and they get nerfed.
Leksi Bar'zuk	Posted - 2010.10.25 20:05:00 - [86] Originally by: Stinko McCoy So basically some dev alt lost a really expensive ship to a drake gang blob and couldn't fight back. Poor cheap Drakes finally get a break into mainstream pvp desire and they get nerfed. +1
Rumple Fourskin	Posted - 2010.10.25 20:17:00 - [87] So should I stop maxing out my missile skills? The drake is the only caldari ship (aside from onyx) that make any sense in pvp. If ccp nerfs the drake then we know that they don't want caldari in pvp situations and a ton of us wasted 8 months of training perfecting this ship. I know caldari were the pwnomgbbqwtf for like 5 years but cant we have 1 ship that's viable for pvp?
Seriously Bored Minmatar	Posted - 2010.10.25 21:30:00 - [88] Originally by: Rumple Fourskin So should I stop maxing out my missile skills? The drake is the only caldari ship (aside from onyx) that make any sense in pvp. If ccp nerfs the drake then we know that they don't want caldari in pvp situations and a ton of us wasted 8 months of training perfecting this ship. I know caldari were the pwnomgbbqwtf for like 5 years but cant we have 1 ship that's viable for pvp? Since the explosion of these "OMG WTF NARF!" threads Chronitis hasn't commented in the original thread that he tossed this ball around, and there are no other threads/notes on the Test Server forum. All we have right now is F.U.D. and reading too far into one Dev's musings. I'd keep my original skill plan if I were in your shoes, and I'm not taking missiles off my training list either. On a side note, I'll be royally ****ed if CCP actually does anything about this before/instead of reigning in Angel ships or buffing hybrids...
Leksi Bar'zuk	Posted - 2010.10.25 21:32:00 - [89] Originally by: Seriously Bored On a side note, I'll be royally ****ed if CCP actually does anything about this before/instead of reigning in Angel ships or buffing hybrids... Definitely agree on that.
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2010.10.25 22:31:00 - [90] Originally by: Seriously Bored On a side note, I'll be royally ***ed if CCP actually does anything about this before/instead of reigning in Angel ships or buffing hybrids... Then again, you have to appreciate the oh so sweet irony here. My money is on the instead* part, anyway, and I like that a lot.

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