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Upcoming drake nerf, train minmitar or amarr?

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Berendas Neo Spartans Laconian Syndicate	Posted - 2010.10.27 00:16:00 - [181] Leksi, you need to stop posting. Liang's arguments are solid and you are just making yourself look like an even bigger idiot with each new post.
Leksi Bar'zuk	Posted - 2010.10.27 00:34:00 - [182] Edited by: Leksi Bar''zuk on 27/10/2010 00:45:51 Originally by: Berendas Leksi, you need to stop posting. Liang's arguments are solid and you are just making yourself look like an even bigger idiot with each new post. What are "things to post when I can't contribute to the conversation?" I'll take asshats for 800 Alex! @Liang: It's so pathetic to see you posting this trash. Ignoring delayed damage. Ignoring the fact dps numbers DROP any time the missiles are not kinetic. Ignoring the fact a pdu/dc is standard fitting (nano'd you get 1-0 bcu's.. ok). Proposing a HML fleet, then arguing about HAM damage. You're truly posting some of the most assanine **** i've ever seen you generate while sober. For you sake, I hope you can convince the community you were drunk for all of this.
Grog Barrel	Posted - 2010.10.27 00:37:00 - [183] Originally by: Berendas Leksi, you need to stop posting. Liang's arguments are solid and you are just making yourself look like an even bigger idiot with each new post. "here teacher, i brought an apple for you"
Berendas Neo Spartans Laconian Syndicate	Posted - 2010.10.27 00:45:00 - [184] Originally by: Leksi Bar'zuk Originally by: Berendas Leksi, you need to stop posting. Liang's arguments are solid and you are just making yourself look like an even bigger idiot with each new post. What are "things to post when I can't contribute to the conversation?" I'll take asshats for 800 Alex! You're one to talk, almost all of your posts thus far are flaming people and referencing arguments that weren't made. P.S. I did post several times, at least read the thread that you are trying to troll.
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2010.10.27 00:45:00 - [185] Edited by: Omara Otawan on 27/10/2010 00:53:20 Originally by: Leksi Bar'zuk You obviously don't pvp if you assume things always go as planned for the enemy... Ironically, thats exactly what a good commander assumes... or rather, has to assume. Even if he doesnt grasp this pretty simple concept, an idiot should be able to see that ability to act if things dont go your way is better than just look dumb and die. To illustrate, take your example of the brutix fleet against drake fleet. The drakes might not succeed enforcing engagement range, but it doesnt matter a lot for them as they can just as well engage at close range. Now, have fun trolling.
Leksi Bar'zuk	Posted - 2010.10.27 00:50:00 - [186] Edited by: Leksi Bar''zuk on 27/10/2010 00:53:29 Originally by: Omara Otawan Originally by: Leksi Bar'zuk You obviously don't pvp if you assume things always go as planned for the enemy... Ironically, thats exactly what a good commander assumes... or rather, has to assume. Ironically, this means your commander assumes that things will go as planned... so are you just talking in circles or are you just another moron with nothing to contribute? ps. cup the balls when Liang asks for deepthroat. Berendas, that goes double for you.
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2010.10.27 00:53:00 - [187] Originally by: Leksi Bar'zuk Ironically, this means your commander assumes that things will go as planned... so are you just talking in circles or are you just another moron with nothing to contribute? ROFL, exactly how dumb are you?
Berendas Neo Spartans Laconian Syndicate	Posted - 2010.10.27 00:58:00 - [188] Originally by: Omara Otawan Originally by: Leksi Bar'zuk Ironically, this means your commander assumes that things will go as planned... so are you just talking in circles or are you just another moron with nothing to contribute? ROFL, exactly how dumb are you? He's really really dumb.
Leksi Bar'zuk	Posted - 2010.10.27 01:00:00 - [189] Just doin' mah job ma'am. Calling morons on their bull****. You can thank me with donations if ya like.
Naomi Knight Amarr	Posted - 2010.10.27 08:25:00 - [190] Originally by: Leksi Bar'zuk Edited by: Leksi Bar''zuk on 27/10/2010 00:50:20 Edited by: Leksi Bar''zuk on 27/10/2010 00:45:51 Originally by: Berendas Leksi, you need to stop posting. Liang's arguments are solid and you are just making yourself look like an even bigger idiot with each new post. What are "things to post when I can't contribute to the conversation?" I'll take asshats for 800 Alex! @Liang: It's so pathetic to see you posting this trash. Ignoring delayed damage. Ignoring the fact dps numbers DROP any time the missiles are not kinetic. Ignoring the fact a pdu/dc is standard fitting (nano'd you get 1-0 bcu's.. ok). Proposing a HML fleet, then arguing about HAM damage. You're truly posting some of the most assanine **** i've ever seen you generate while sober. For you sake, I hope you can convince the community you were drunk for all of this. PS. A beam harby projects more dps (almost 100 more) out to 65km. Instant, turret, damage. Nerf harbs? Oh noes I had to fit a TC, ohmgawd. +1 all the matar hate drake gets now omg 1 ship can outdo matar ships in its intended role lets go nerf it :)
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.10.27 09:13:00 - [191] Originally by: Berendas Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Berendas Edited by: Berendas on 26/10/2010 03:04:37 Edited by: Berendas on 26/10/2010 03:04:15 Originally by: Jacob Stov IAnd guess what, they have good damage projection, too. That is just the way Caldari and Amarr work. Because Amarr hitting out to 25km with Scorch is equal to Caldari hitting out to 84km with HML's Grammar edits. Apoc with one TC = 75Km Scorch. Just saying. So let me get this straight: A battleship that gets a range bonus still needs to fit an additional mod to get range thats still ~9km shorter than a Drake? That doesn't make a compelling argument for the Drake not having too great a range. Just saying. Jesus christ you're dumb. Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.10.27 09:18:00 - [192] Originally by: Berendas Originally by: Omara Otawan Originally by: Leksi Bar'zuk Ironically, this means your commander assumes that things will go as planned... so are you just talking in circles or are you just another moron with nothing to contribute? ROFL, exactly how dumb are you? He's really really dumb. Much like that guy who whined that the long range weapon of a race devoted to long range combat has the same effective range as the short range weapon of a race that isn't. Wait, that's you. You dont get to call anyone dumb because you are literally the dumbest. And to answer the question above, yes I have used a geddon rather frequently tyvm. In fact it's my favourite battleship. As such I know very well that it can sport both a reasonable tank (ie: more EHP than the drake) and still do very good DPS indeed. Thus it can "tank and gank". If that's not enough for you, the Abaddon can do both even better. As for whining that the geddon isn't as fast as the drake... I dont know what to say to someone who thinks that the fact a battleship is slower than a battlecruiser makes the battlecruiser overpowered. Wait, yes I do: uninstall EVE. Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
Templar Dane Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2010.10.27 09:37:00 - [193] Originally by: Malcanis Much like that guy who whined that the long range weapon of a race devoted to long range combat has the same effective range as the short range weapon of a race that isn't. Wait, that's you. You dont get to call anyone dumb because you are literally the dumbest. And to answer the question above, yes I have used a geddon rather frequently tyvm. In fact it's my favourite battleship. As such I know very well that it can sport both a reasonable tank (ie: more EHP than the drake) and still do very good DPS indeed. Thus it can "tank and gank". If that's not enough for you, the Abaddon can do both even better. As for whining that the geddon isn't as fast as the drake... I dont know what to say to someone who thinks that the fact a battleship is slower than a battlecruiser makes the battlecruiser overpowered. Wait, yes I do: uninstall EVE. How DARE a battleship have more dps/ehp than a battlecruiser!
Skex Relbore Gallente Red Federation	Posted - 2010.10.27 17:53:00 - [194] Edited by: Skex Relbore on 27/10/2010 17:55:35 Originally by: Leksi Bar'zuk Edited by: Leksi Bar''zuk on 27/10/2010 00:53:29 Originally by: Omara Otawan Originally by: Leksi Bar'zuk You obviously don't pvp if you assume things always go as planned for the enemy... Ironically, thats exactly what a good commander assumes... or rather, has to assume. Ironically, this means your commander assumes that things will go as planned... so are you just talking in circles or are you just another moron with nothing to contribute? ps. cup the balls when Liang asks for deepthroat. Berendas, that goes double for you. A competent commander always assumes that the enemies plan will go off perfectly and his own is the one that will jack up. I'm not going to take a position on whether the drake needs a nerf or what form any nerf should be in but. You people need to get your heads out of your backsides here. In a game system when the use of one particular build/class/item becomes overly pronounced that is an indication of a game imbalance. You can argue til your blue in the face but the fact remains that balance is reflected in use. The cause of the imbalance may not be directly related to that particular item but it is still an imbalance. The easiest and generally most appropriate way to address such imbalances is with a liberal application of the Nerf bat. Why you ask? 1, it's easier and generally less likely to lead to unintended consequences. 2, it's easier to reverse or adjust then to address multiple factors. 3, Boosting rather than Nerfing leads to power inflation with a situation where the FOTM just moves on to what ever the latest thing to get boosted. Performance is relative. If everything sucks equally then you have balance and no one notices. Ideally a game should have a relatively flat distribution in builds/classes/items so that multiple play styles are viable. Game mechanics dictate the meta-game, as such it is perfectly valid to use game mechanics to address imbalances in the meta-game. Further if a particular play style is causing performance issues with the overall product the developers certainly are with in their rights and responsibility to tweak the mechanics in such a way as to discourage said play style. In the end a game developer has the right to do what ever the hell they want with their product. If you don't like that well the cancel button is over there. <=====
Leksi Bar'zuk	Posted - 2010.10.27 18:05:00 - [195] Thiny veiled drake rant is thiny veiled. You could honestly have got that rant off with fewer words aswell. Hope you feel better now though. If not, you seem to know where the cancel sub button is located...
Grog Barrel	Posted - 2010.10.27 18:27:00 - [196] Edited by: Grog Barrel on 27/10/2010 18:29:54 Originally by: Skex Relbore Edited by: Skex Relbore on 27/10/2010 17:55:35 Originally by: Leksi Bar'zuk Edited by: Leksi Bar''zuk on 27/10/2010 00:53:29 Originally by: Omara Otawan Originally by: Leksi Bar'zuk You obviously don't pvp if you assume things always go as planned for the enemy... Ironically, thats exactly what a good commander assumes... or rather, has to assume. Ironically, this means your commander assumes that things will go as planned... so are you just talking in circles or are you just another person with nothing to contribute? Trolling removed. Zymurgist A competent commander always assumes that the enemies plan will go off perfectly and his own is the one that will jack up. I'm not going to take a position on whether the drake needs a nerf or what form any nerf should be in but. You people need to get your heads out of your backsides here. In a game system when the use of one particular build/class/item becomes overly pronounced that is an indication of a game imbalance. You can argue til your blue in the face but the fact remains that balance is reflected in use. The cause of the imbalance may not be directly related to that particular item but it is still an imbalance. The easiest and generally most appropriate way to address such imbalances is with a liberal application of the Nerf bat. Why you ask? 1, it's easier and generally less likely to lead to unintended consequences. 2, it's easier to reverse or adjust then to address multiple factors. 3, Boosting rather than Nerfing leads to power inflation with a situation where the FOTM just moves on to what ever the latest thing to get boosted. Performance is relative. If everything sucks equally then you have balance and no one notices. Ideally a game should have a relatively flat distribution in builds/classes/items so that multiple play styles are viable. Game mechanics dictate the meta-game, as such it is perfectly valid to use game mechanics to address imbalances in the meta-game. Further if a particular play style is causing performance issues with the overall product the developers certainly are with in their rights and responsibility to tweak the mechanics in such a way as to discourage said play style. In the end a game developer has the right to do what ever the hell they want with their product. If you don't like that well the cancel button is over there. <===== you most likely refering to the managers intead of the devs when talking about rights. Also, because once the drakes are taken out of business due to being used as node crashers, there is nothing else left for meta gamers to keep crashing said nodes right? Talking is easy when you dont project the possible results in a near future. Also supporting an idea, as it was the cure to all diseases (which reminds me about the legendary coke story), isnt making you better, nor those, who are responsable for these kind of decisions.
Skex Relbore Gallente Red Federation	Posted - 2010.10.27 19:08:00 - [197] Originally by: Leksi Bar'zuk Thiny veiled drake rant is thiny veiled. You could honestly have got that rant off with fewer words aswell. Hope you feel better now though. If not, you seem to know where the cancel sub button is located... I don't care one way or the other about the Drake. I'm trained to fly it now (though I don't have T2 launchers yet). My point is that Nerfing is generally a perfectly acceptable and frankly generally less troublesome method of dealing with imbalances. The alternative of "buff the weaker thing" just leads to mudflation.
Kara Jorin	Posted - 2010.10.27 19:14:00 - [198] http://sleeplessinspace.blogspot.com/2010/10/nerf-drake-rawr-wait-what.html Interesting take...
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux War.Pigs.	Posted - 2010.10.27 19:15:00 - [199] Originally by: Skex Relbore Originally by: Leksi Bar'zuk Thiny veiled drake rant is thiny veiled. You could honestly have got that rant off with fewer words aswell. Hope you feel better now though. If not, you seem to know where the cancel sub button is located... I don't care one way or the other about the Drake. I'm trained to fly it now (though I don't have T2 launchers yet). My point is that Nerfing is generally a perfectly acceptable and frankly generally less troublesome method of dealing with imbalances. The alternative of "buff the weaker thing" just leads to mudflation. Nerfing has its place, but so does buffing. It helps to have a vision for how you want the game to evolve. -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter Blog
Skex Relbore Gallente Red Federation	Posted - 2010.10.27 19:22:00 - [200] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Skex Relbore Originally by: Leksi Bar'zuk Thiny veiled drake rant is thiny veiled. You could honestly have got that rant off with fewer words aswell. Hope you feel better now though. If not, you seem to know where the cancel sub button is located... I don't care one way or the other about the Drake. I'm trained to fly it now (though I don't have T2 launchers yet). My point is that Nerfing is generally a perfectly acceptable and frankly generally less troublesome method of dealing with imbalances. The alternative of "buff the weaker thing" just leads to mudflation. Nerfing has its place, but so does buffing. It helps to have a vision for how you want the game to evolve. -Liang Oh I agree it's just that so many people get on the whole "You should never nerf anything" bandwagon that they need to be knocked off occasionally. In general if one thing is fail and everything else ok then that thing could probably use a buff. But if one things happens to just be head and shoulders above the alternatives. Well time to break out the nerf bat.
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux War.Pigs.	Posted - 2010.10.27 19:23:00 - [201] Originally by: Kara Jorin http://sleeplessinspace.blogspot.com/2010/10/nerf-drake-rawr-wait-what.html Interesting take... It's an interesting take, I agree. I don't agree with its conclusion though. The Myrm was just a terrible choice of ship for making this comparison. -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter Blog
omgfreemoniez	Posted - 2010.10.27 19:28:00 - [202] The Drake has been neither nerfed nor buffed for years. The last event that even AFFECTED the Drake was sized rigs, and that was a year ago. So how come the Drake has only recently become overpowered?
Lenda Roush	Posted - 2010.10.27 19:28:00 - [203] Edited by: Lenda Roush on 27/10/2010 19:31:16 Originally by: Skex Relbore The alternative of "buff the weaker thing" just leads to mudflation. Agree with this, seen it in WoW, don't want to see it in EVE! Edit: please don't hate the WoW noobie.
Skex Relbore Gallente Red Federation	Posted - 2010.10.27 19:34:00 - [204] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Kara Jorin http://sleeplessinspace.blogspot.com/2010/10/nerf-drake-rawr-wait-what.html Interesting take... It's an interesting take, I agree. I don't agree with its conclusion though. The Myrm was just a terrible choice of ship for making this comparison. -Liang I pretty much stopped reading it when I saw the fits he was comparing. I'd never fly either of those ships with the setups he was using (least not in PVP).
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux War.Pigs.	Posted - 2010.10.27 19:43:00 - [205] Originally by: omgfreemoniez So how come the Drake has only recently become overpowered? It always was, it's just that PVP 'pros' refused to open their eyes and look. -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter Blog
Zyress	Posted - 2010.10.27 20:23:00 - [206] All you whiners begging for a Drake nerf, we have one best in class T1 ship and you can't stand it. I tell you what, give us the best frigates and cruisers and HACs and the Hurricane can be the best BC, or give us the best Battleships and Recons and the the Harbinger can be the best. I can see where the Gallente could use a little luv but the Minnies and Amarr have no room for complaint.
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux War.Pigs.	Posted - 2010.10.27 20:24:00 - [207] Originally by: Zyress All you whiners begging for a Drake nerf, we have one best in class T1 ship and you can't stand it. I tell you what, give us the best frigates and cruisers and HACs and the Hurricane can be the best BC, or give us the best Battleships and Recons and the the Harbinger can be the best. I can see where the Gallente could use a little luv but the Minnies and Amarr have no room for complaint. Hey, what do you call someone that has pretty near max skills in all the races? -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter Blog
omgfreemoniez	Posted - 2010.10.27 20:48:00 - [208] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Zyress All you whiners begging for a Drake nerf, we have one best in class T1 ship and you can't stand it. I tell you what, give us the best frigates and cruisers and HACs and the Hurricane can be the best BC, or give us the best Battleships and Recons and the the Harbinger can be the best. I can see where the Gallente could use a little luv but the Minnies and Amarr have no room for complaint. Hey, what do you call someone that has pretty near max skills in all the races? -Liang Someone who is more interested in making other peoples ships weak than their own ships strong. Still completely biased.
Zyress	Posted - 2010.10.27 21:06:00 - [209] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Zyress All you whiners begging for a Drake nerf, we have one best in class T1 ship and you can't stand it. I tell you what, give us the best frigates and cruisers and HACs and the Hurricane can be the best BC, or give us the best Battleships and Recons and the the Harbinger can be the best. I can see where the Gallente could use a little luv but the Minnies and Amarr have no room for complaint. Hey, what do you call someone that has pretty near max skills in all the races? -Liang Very old
Seriously Bored Minmatar	Posted - 2010.10.27 21:07:00 - [210] Originally by: omgfreemoniez Someone who is more interested in making other peoples ships weak than their own ships strong. Still completely biased. That's...what, no. Use that grey matter up top. If someone has skill for all four race's ships, there's no such thing as "their ships" and "other people's ships." All ships are included in both categories.

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