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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.10.25 22:35:00 -
[91]
 Originally by: Seriously Bored
Since the explosion of these "OMG WTF NARF!" threads Chronitis hasn't commented in the original thread that he tossed this ball around, and there are no other threads/notes on the Test Server forum.
What we really have is the Eve community proving, once again, that they can't be trusted to have a responsible "grown up" discussion. The guy says something, and it immediately gets taken out of context. He corrects that context and then threads like this start appearing. I'm frankly amazed that CCP even bothers to to try and communicate with people that always perceive everything as a nerf.
"They're boosting rockets. They must not want Rifters in PVP anymore!"
-Liang
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Grimpak
Gallente
The Whitehound Corporation
The Chamber of Commerce
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Posted - 2010.10.26 00:58:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
"They're boosting rockets. They must not want Rifters in PVP anymore!"-Liang
and who is to say that in 6 months time, people will be whining about rockets, saying "OMG WE DON'T SEE RIFTAHRS PEEVEEPEEING ANYMOAR! NARF ROCKETS!"
I would be laughing my ass out when that starts to happen
---
Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Solid Star
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Posted - 2010.10.26 01:56:00 -
[93]
Edited by: Solid Star on 26/10/2010 01:58:34
Originally by: Tippia
Edited by: Tippia on 25/10/2010 08:48:02
Originally by: Solid Star
What really made the Drake explode in popularity was the huge speed nerf CCP did where fast ships were moving at half the speed.
No. Then we would have seen this two years ago. We didn't, mainly because the speed nerf coincided with the missile nerf, making the two come out at almost status quo in the end.
We did see it 2 years ago. It started right after the great nano nerf with Tri when they were up north with their sidekick Atlas. This was during the first MAX campaign. Look up Tri stats 2 years ago and you will see the 'Drake Army' (some said Drake Navy) gangs they ran.
And it was not just drakes that increased, it was all BCs and RR BSs in general.
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Jacob Stov
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Posted - 2010.10.26 02:50:00 -
[94]
I think the issue here ist the server load. They don't care about angel ships cause they don't f*ck up their servers.
They "fix" fighterbombers because of the serverload.
But in the end, the missile fix may be a good thing. Generic buff to missile speed would be nice.
But the argument of "Drake doesn't have to compromise between tank and gank" is just a joke. With that argument we could nerf half the Amarr lineup. And guess what, they have good damage projection, too. That is just the way Caldari and Amarr work.
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Berendas
Neo Spartans
Laconian Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.10.26 03:02:00 -
[95]
Edited by: Berendas on 26/10/2010 03:04:37
Edited by: Berendas on 26/10/2010 03:04:15
Originally by: Jacob Stov
IAnd guess what, they have good damage projection, too. That is just the way Caldari and Amarr work.
Because Amarr hitting out to 25km with Scorch is equal to Caldari hitting out to 84km with HML's 
Grammar edits.
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.10.26 03:08:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Jacob Stov
And guess what, they have good damage projection, too. That is just the way Caldari and Amarr work.
Can you please show me the Harby fit that does 400 DPS at 80km with 80K+ EHP?
-Liang
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Trebor Whettam
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Posted - 2010.10.26 03:59:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Jacob Stov
And guess what, they have good damage projection, too. That is just the way Caldari and Amarr work.
Can you please show me the Harby fit that does 400 DPS at 80km with 80K+ EHP?
-Liang
Be fair. It takes 15 seconds for that dps to get there, and some is likely to be wasted, unless the gang does some really slick and somewhat risky volley management. It would be significantly better coming from a turret ship.
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Jacob Stov
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Posted - 2010.10.26 04:18:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Jacob Stov
And guess what, they have good damage projection, too. That is just the way Caldari and Amarr work.
Can you please show me the Harby fit that does 400 DPS at 80km with 80K+ EHP?
-Liang
Apples and oranges. The Harby is one of the two ganky tier 2 bc's. Of course it can't compete in EHP. And missiles have always the DPS advantage at the edge of engagement envelope over their turret counterparts.
If that is so great, then the CM Raven is the best sniper BS of eve.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.10.26 06:36:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Jacob Stov
Apples and oranges.
You mean that it's an easy and apt comparison?
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Xina Tutor
Amarr
Black Arrows
Sev3rance
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Posted - 2010.10.26 08:54:00 -
[100]
I don't get it. Any character can train for any ship in the game. If you think x ship is 'better' then train it and fly it...
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Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.10.26 09:05:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Berendas
Edited by: Berendas on 26/10/2010 03:04:37
Edited by: Berendas on 26/10/2010 03:04:15
Originally by: Jacob Stov
IAnd guess what, they have good damage projection, too. That is just the way Caldari and Amarr work.
Because Amarr hitting out to 25km with Scorch is equal to Caldari hitting out to 84km with HML's
Grammar edits.
Apoc with one TC = 75Km Scorch. Just saying.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.10.26 09:27:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Jacob Stov
And guess what, they have good damage projection, too. That is just the way Caldari and Amarr work.
Can you please show me the Harby fit that does 400 DPS at 80km with 80K+ EHP?
-Liang
Breaking news: the drake can do something that the other tier-2 BCs can't! OH NOES! CATS AND DOGS LIVING TOGETHER! RABBLE RABBLE!
Show me the drake fit that can match a gank cane DPS at warp scram range. Show me the drake fit that can lurk at 0 on a gate and instapop frigates burning back to the gate. Show me the drake fit that can fit a full rack of top-tier close range guns and 2 neuts. Show me the drake fit that can go as fast as a vagacane. Show me the drake fit that can switch damage types without losing 20% of its DPS. Well lord o' mercy, it seems there are things the Hurricane can do that the drake cant!
Show me the drake fit whose DPS isn't laughed off by our FIREWALL formation... 
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Leksi Bar'zuk
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Posted - 2010.10.26 11:16:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Jacob Stov
And guess what, they have good damage projection, too. That is just the way Caldari and Amarr work.
Can you please show me the Harby fit that does 400 DPS at 80km with 80K+ EHP?
-Liang
Breaking news: the drake can do something that the other tier-2 BCs can't! OH NOES! CATS AND DOGS LIVING TOGETHER! RABBLE RABBLE!
Show me the drake fit that can match a gank cane DPS at warp scram range. Show me the drake fit that can lurk at 0 on a gate and instapop frigates burning back to the gate. Show me the drake fit that can fit a full rack of top-tier close range guns and 2 neuts. Show me the drake fit that can go as fast as a vagacane. Show me the drake fit that can switch damage types without losing 20% of its DPS. Well lord o' mercy, it seems there are things the Hurricane can do that the drake cant!
Show me the drake fit whose DPS isn't laughed off by our FIREWALL formation...
Don't try to reason with him, he's abandoned logic and switched over to being completely butthurt with drakes.
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Rastigan
Caldari
Ars ex Discordia
Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2010.10.26 13:14:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Leksi Bar'zuk
Don't try to reason with him, he's abandoned logic and switched over to being completely butthurt with drakes.
You dont understand, Caldari arent allowed to have a ship that is actually best in its class, thats reserved for Amarr/Minmatar only...
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.10.26 13:16:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Rastigan
Originally by: Leksi Bar'zuk
Don't try to reason with him, he's abandoned logic and switched over to being completely butthurt with drakes.
You dont understand, Caldari arent allowed to have a ship that is actually best in its class, thats reserved for Amarr/Minmatar only...
It's about ****ing time you noobs admitted the Drake was best in clase, TBQFH.
-Liang
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Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
|
Posted - 2010.10.26 13:43:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Rastigan
Originally by: Leksi Bar'zuk
Don't try to reason with him, he's abandoned logic and switched over to being completely butthurt with drakes.
You dont understand, Caldari arent allowed to have a ship that is actually best in its class, thats reserved for Amarr/Minmatar only...
It's about ****ing time you noobs admitted the Drake was best in clase, TBQFH.
-Liang
I dont think anyone's ever denied that the Drake isn't the best fleet BC by a mile. The question is whether that necessarily means that it should be nerfed.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
War.Pigs.
|
Posted - 2010.10.26 13:55:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Malcanis
I dont think anyone's ever denied that the Drake isn't the best fleet BC by a mile. The question is whether that necessarily means that it should be nerfed.
Obviously you haven't been reading the same forums I have for the last 5 years. Don't you remember that the Drake is a PVE ship and anyone using it in PVP is a noob?
-Liang
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Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
On Twitter
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Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.10.26 14:17:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Malcanis
I dont think anyone's ever denied that the Drake isn't the best fleet BC by a mile. The question is whether that necessarily means that it should be nerfed.
Obviously you haven't been reading the same forums I have for the last 5 years. Don't you remember that the Drake is a PVE ship and anyone using it in PVP is a noob?
-Liang
Indeed I do remember that, and I'm convinced that this is the root cause of the current e-rage about it. Apparently Drake Fleets are just fine when ~elite pro~ alliances used them, but a disgusting abomination when "noob blobber" alliances presume to do so. It's only OK to fly drakes if you're doing it ironically, it seems.
But I also remember identical e-rage about sniper HACs, bombers, RR BS, and AHACs - and that's only since the last set of current mechanics were implemented. Remember when each of those made everything else obselete? God, I hope so, it's literally less than a month since people were seriously dismissing the possibility of any sub-cap counter to AHACs
That's why I'd like to see a teeny bit more evidence than a few well-publicised engagements against overly entitled ship snobs who are furious that their "proper" PvP ships are getting owned by lolcaldari "PVE ships".
So far as I can see, the Drake is doing very well exactly what it's supposed to do. Actually most caldari ships do very well at exactly what they're supposed to do. It's just that the drake is doing something useful.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Tusen Takk
Guy Fawkes Trust Fund
31ST Reliables Division
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Posted - 2010.10.26 14:20:00 -
[109]
i want proof that the drake is getting nerfed
and then i want an explanation as to why its getting nerfed but the dramiel or the ashimmu or whatever isnt
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Grimpak
Gallente
The Whitehound Corporation
The Chamber of Commerce
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Posted - 2010.10.26 14:24:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Malcanis
I dont think anyone's ever denied that the Drake isn't the best fleet BC by a mile. The question is whether that necessarily means that it should be nerfed.
Obviously you haven't been reading the same forums I have for the last 5 years. Don't you remember that the Drake is a PVE ship and anyone using it in PVP is a noob?
-Liang
Indeed I do remember that, and I'm convinced that this is the root cause of the current e-rage about it. Apparently Drake Fleets are just fine when ~elite pro~ alliances used them, but a disgusting abomination when "noob blobber" alliances presume to do so. It's only OK to fly drakes if you're doing it ironically, it seems.
But I also remember identical e-rage about sniper HACs, bombers, RR BS, and AHACs - and that's only since the last set of current mechanics were implemented. Remember when each of those made everything else obselete? God, I hope so, it's literally less than a month since people were seriously dismissing the possibility of any sub-cap counter to AHACs
That's why I'd like to see a teeny bit more evidence than a few well-publicised engagements against overly entitled ship snobs who are furious that their "proper" PvP ships are getting owned by lolcaldari "PVE ships".
So far as I can see, the Drake is doing very well exactly what it's supposed to do. Actually most caldari ships do very well at exactly what they're supposed to do. It's just that the drake is doing something useful.
tbh changes or no, the only thing that will suck is CCP's sledge-nerf-hammer.
that's all that worries me about drakes.
---
Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Indeterminacy
THORN Syndicate
Controlled Chaos
|
Posted - 2010.10.26 14:27:00 -
[111]
This whole drake nerf is such a joke. More lolCCP.
Like EVE needs more minmatar OP ***gotry? Go Go the already well overpowered Hurricane and anyone who has done true PVP knows it (though they may not admit it publicly).
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.10.26 14:46:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Tusen Takk
i want proof that the drake is getting nerfed
Good luck with that oneà
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Tusen Takk
Guy Fawkes Trust Fund
31ST Reliables Division
|
Posted - 2010.10.26 14:57:00 -
[113]
thats what i thought :)
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.10.26 16:43:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Malcanis
Indeed I do remember that, and I'm convinced that this is the root cause of the current e-rage about it.
I haven't been seeing this e-rage about Drakes. I'm seeing e-rage about the Drake "nerf".
-Liang
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Bud Johnson
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2010.10.26 17:03:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Malcanis
Indeed I do remember that, and I'm convinced that this is the root cause of the current e-rage about it.
I haven't been seeing this e-rage about Drakes. I'm seeing e-rage about the Drake "nerf".
-Liang
They mad.
This has been coming for years, find me another ship that doesn't have to choose between tank and gank.
Also the posts claiming that the drake isn't OP and using comparisons to battleships to prove their point are pretty funny.
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Gabriel Karade
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2010.10.26 17:22:00 -
[116]
Blasters.
--------------
Video - 'War-Machine' |
Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.10.26 17:32:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Malcanis
Indeed I do remember that, and I'm convinced that this is the root cause of the current e-rage about it.
I haven't been seeing this e-rage about Drakes. I'm seeing e-rage about the Drake "nerf".
-Liang
See post 115, for instance. Will he show us on the doll where the drake touched him, do you think?
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
|
Posted - 2010.10.26 17:40:00 -
[118]
Edited by: Malcanis on 26/10/2010 17:45:13
Originally by: Bud Johnson
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Malcanis
Indeed I do remember that, and I'm convinced that this is the root cause of the current e-rage about it.
I haven't been seeing this e-rage about Drakes. I'm seeing e-rage about the Drake "nerf".
-Liang
They mad.
This has been coming for years, find me another ship that doesn't have to choose between tank and gank.
Also the posts claiming that the drake isn't OP and using comparisons to battleships to prove their point are pretty funny.
The choice has actually always been between tank, gank and tackle: pick two. if you want tank and tackle, go armour, if you want tank and gank go shield, if you want gank and tackle, go either.
Ranged fleet ships dont have to worry about tackle, ergo shield tankers have an inherent advantage in this role. This is why CCP have always balanced ships on the basis that long range is a big advantage. Back in the mythical golden age of ~solo PvP~ (or smaller fleet PvP anyway), this meant LR shield tankers sucked, because people had to tackle. Which is where the "lolcaldari" thing started. For the PvP metagame as it was then, PvP = armour tanking.
For the last year or two we've been in the age of shield tanking, and it's really only recently started to sink in. Shield and Armour tanking work exactly as they've always done, but the ~emergent~ change in the metagame has taken a while to work through.
I remember all those threads back in the day when Caldari pilots were complaining that it was impossible to fit tank and tackle. And were were told "lol get someone to tackle for you nub". Well now people are tackling for Drakes, and look who's crying?
People like you.
EDIT: And wait till the Raven fleets start. Then this will get really funny. 600 DPS @ 200Km! I wonder who will be the first to start fielding XLR Raven fleets...?
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
War.Pigs.
|
Posted - 2010.10.26 17:59:00 -
[119]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 26/10/2010 18:02:24
Originally by: Malcanis
EDIT: And wait till the Raven fleets start. Then this will get really funny. 600 DPS @ 200Km! I wonder who will be the first to start fielding XLR Raven fleets...?
Burn Eden. And they work too.
-Liang
Ed: I 100% agree with Malcanis' post, even if I do contend the Drake is a wee bit overpowered. They better not sledge hammer it though. 
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Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.10.26 18:09:00 -
[120]
Edited by: Malcanis on 26/10/2010 18:13:05
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 26/10/2010 18:02:24
Originally by: Malcanis
EDIT: And wait till the Raven fleets start. Then this will get really funny. 600 DPS @ 200Km! I wonder who will be the first to start fielding XLR Raven fleets...?
Burn Eden. And they work too.
-Liang
Ed: I 100% agree with Malcanis' post, even if I do contend the Drake is a wee bit overpowered. They better not sledge hammer it though.
If, for the sake of argument, the Drake is "overpowered" (whatever that means, exactly), then I'd say that the advantages of having it as-is in game significantly outweigh the disadvantages:
(1) It's a great logistics killer. BS and AHACs both suck at doing this.
(2) It's an easily accessible fleet-viable ship for newer players. BS and AHACs both suck at doing this too.
(3) It's the "paper" to the BS scissors and the AHAC rock.
(4) It's one of the very few genuinely viable Caldari solo ships.
EDIT: Burn Eden have made some good use of Cruise Ravens in the past, but they're not numerous enough to field what most people would call a "Fleet"
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
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