| Pages: [1] :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
True Insight
   |
Posted - 2010.10.23 13:05:00 -
[1]
Edited by: True Insight on 23/10/2010 13:18:06
Edited by: True Insight on 23/10/2010 13:06:58
Edited by: True Insight on 23/10/2010 13:06:30
So we all know how everyone says Ravens are OP, but I'd like to bring a new side of this discussion to the forefront--the long range, CML Raven.
I have recently learned (the hard way) that Ravens can dominate long-range battlecru... ship combat--check out this fit:
 Quote:
[Raven, Raven, CML]
Signal Amplifier II
Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800
Large Shield Extender II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile
Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Energy Neutralizer II
Large Core Defence Field Extender I
Large Core Defence Field Extender I
Large Ionic Field Projector I
Hobgoblin II x1
Hammerhead II x2
Ogre II x2
This setup does 786 DPS with drones (60km) and 576 DPS all the way out to its locking range (250km)
On top of this incredible DPS, it has a ridiculous 90k EHP and it can neut any target, totally disabling frigs and other tackle and making sure the Fury missiles do full damage to all big targets. Try to make any ships smaller than a BS come even close to these stats... you simply can't. I don't have the skills for a Raven, so I tried to counter with beam Apocs, arty Tempests, even rail Rokhs. Play with EFT, see how pathetic these setups are for yourself compared to the Raven. Sure the missiles take a few seconds to hit their target, but the stats are simply ridiculous...
Thoughts?
|
Pinky Starstrider
|
Posted - 2010.10.23 13:10:00 -
[2]
I see what you did there.
|
Duchess Starbuckington
|
Posted - 2010.10.23 13:16:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Pinky Starstrider
I see what you did there.
_________________________________
ROCKET STATUS: FIX IN PROGRESS... |
Doctor Alban
|
Posted - 2010.10.23 13:38:00 -
[4]
I think all BS with RoF-bonus like the Raven, any other damage bonus and/or tank bonus need to get nerfed. Thats the only viable solution to this serious issue.
|
Unfamed II
NPC Corporation
|
Posted - 2010.10.23 13:44:00 -
[5]
This needs to be addressed before draketrain evolves into raventrain. 
-b |
Lacco
draketrain
|
Posted - 2010.10.23 13:46:00 -
[6]
missiles cause lag please nerf
I'm on TV! I'm famous! |
Tosi
NPC Corporation
|
Posted - 2010.10.23 13:48:00 -
[7]
My thought is that I'm going to go build this right now.
|
Randomness888
|
Posted - 2010.10.23 14:29:00 -
[8]
I can't wait to fight someone like you, eft warriors are best targets
|
Sakura Shiro
|
Posted - 2010.10.23 14:32:00 -
[9]
0/10..you tried too hard
No one runs fleet ravens and expects to be taken seriously (rokh or drake it)
Your neuts have you up close....you'd be torps for that
BS in fleets carry inty killing warrior IIs and rep drones to remote rep
and you have a cap booster with no power draining systems like l or xl sb.
To make this a legit troll, er fit, ....add at least a tp (pull the pointless cap booster), or some damn rigors or else you ain't hitting **** moving faster than bc.
|
Aerilis
Gallente
Percussive Diplomacy
|
Posted - 2010.10.23 16:13:00 -
[10]
Obvious draketrain alt is obvious, but I'll bite.
You do realize the Raven setup you have has pretty much the same stats as the Drake setup I posted right?
As in a Raven is only marginally better than a Drake in this role. And the missiles are slower. Actually, I change my mind. The Drake is better.
|
Tauni
Caldari
Chained Reactions
|
Posted - 2010.10.23 18:12:00 -
[11]
|
Illwill Bill
Svea Rike
Controlled Chaos
|
Posted - 2010.10.23 19:14:00 -
[12]
I see what you did there. 
Originally by: CCP Navigator
Great story but you probably want this in CAOD so feel free to post there with your main.
|
davet517
M. Corp
Mercenary Coalition
|
Posted - 2010.10.24 13:57:00 -
[13]
Everyone agrees that the Raven, if it were ever unleashed in large numbers, would rain terror and distruction the likes of which have not been seen since cruise Kestrels. Fortunately, there has been a long standing gentleman's agreement not to use Ravens in combat. Occasionally an unsuspecting noob suggests bringing a Raven to a fleet fight, and seems puzzled by the chorus of "NO" from his fleet mates.
The less said about cruise Ravens the better, to be honest.
|
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
|
Posted - 2010.10.24 15:11:00 -
[14]
Very interesting. But the real elephant in the room is the Kestrel.
[Kestrel, SML]
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
1MN Afterburner II
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Standard Missile Launcher II, Bloodclaw Fury Light Missile
Standard Missile Launcher II, Bloodclaw Fury Light Missile
Standard Missile Launcher II, Bloodclaw Fury Light Missile
Standard Missile Launcher II, Bloodclaw Fury Light Missile
Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I
Small Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I
This does 105 DPS at 40 km with an extraordinary 871 D volley!
It has 3k EHP and even has room for ewar!
Try to make any other T1 frigate come even close to these stats... you simply can't. Rail Incursus? Pathetic, 56 DPS. Punisher? 58 DPS, feeble. Rifter? 58 DPS and deep in falloff, and not even half the volley damage, laughable!
Sure the missiles take a few seconds to hit their target, but the stats are simply ridiculous...
Thoughts (other than I should stop posting)?
|
Misanthra
|
Posted - 2010.10.24 23:35:00 -
[15]
op kestrel threads to be saved for when rockets buffed (next patch supposedly, believe it when I see it since ccp has teased us before with AF buffing but left us with blue balls).
High kinetic bonus, no tracking issues and if they fix stuff like explosion velocity.....kestrels won't just be for popping cynos and hauling plex anymore lol. And as a added bene, if they keep current kestel pg/cpu layout....you get full t2 fit with almost no desgin caveats (full t2 light kestel...pita with the pg fixing).
|
Kalin Fisic
|
Posted - 2010.10.25 00:46:00 -
[16]
Well.. Based on your fit, you seem to partially going on how far a raven can shoot. Quick piece of advice, if your shooting that far on a raven, YOUR DOING IT WRONG!
But other than that the raven has a few drawbacks as well. Despite having missiles, fury never do for damage with the target using a mwd or have a target painter on two on it, and thats assuming its a battleship.
Also, we need to remember that the raven is a shield tanking ship, and the general thing with shield tankers is they have the ability to use more damage mods than most other ships while not gimping too much on tank, but losing any ability to manipulate the target (ie scram, web, target painter, damps, turret disruptors, ecm).
Also lets look at the practical value of this. How many ravens do you see running around in pvp. Surely you may see one every now and then, but it is hardly the prefered weapon of choice in many situations.
If anything, the raven would be among the least used battleships in PVP. It can put up a decent armor tank, but the damage mods were amongst the biggest advantage it had, especially at range and in large fleets. Its caldari, so its slow as ****, so you aren't expecting to use this in many roaming gangs, unless its a slow battleship roaming gang, which tends to ruin the point.
The sig radius on this thing is high. Shield buffers aren't the most liked things in RR gangs because of alpha. Its using cruise missiles instead of torps, which again ruins the point of a raven in PVP.
So basically, no. It doesn't need to be nerfed. Its fine where it is. This great OP raven you think needs to be nerfed only looks good on paper. In practice u'll realize that most solo battleships would probably win in this fight, and if they were losing, they could still leave the fight no problem.
|
Beck Thomson
|
Posted - 2010.10.25 04:35:00 -
[17]
Raven -> nerf = NO
|
N Ano
Caldari
Solar Transport
|
Posted - 2010.10.25 12:25:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Sakura Shiro
0/10..you tried too hard
No one runs fleet ravens and expects to be taken seriously (rokh or drake it)
Your neuts have you up close....you'd be torps for that
BS in fleets carry inty killing warrior IIs and rep drones to remote rep
and you have a cap booster with no power draining systems like l or xl sb.
To make this a legit troll, er fit, ....add at least a tp (pull the pointless cap booster), or some damn rigors or else you ain't hitting **** moving faster than bc.
You obviously missed the neuts and the mwd.
ECM, Eves little genital warts. |
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
Important Internet Spaceship League
|
Posted - 2010.10.25 13:26:00 -
[19]
If people see a Raven fleet starting to blink red they have 10-15 seconds at long range to warp out and not die. A gunfleet will be able to drop 1-2 Ravens even before the 1st. ship starts getting hit by volleys (In case he didn't warp out)
Btw. I see what you did there...
-
I'm a nice guy!!
But plz hook me up with some pew pew... |
Tub Chil
|
Posted - 2010.10.25 13:31:00 -
[20]
We totally need to nerf them
In advance
So that no more shiny ships are hurt
ever
|
Sakura Shiro
|
Posted - 2010.10.25 23:57:00 -
[21]
Originally by: N Ano
[You obviously missed the neuts and the mwd.
No I saw them. If a sniper (what cruise missile raven is) is in range to use neuts, someting has gone wrong. This won't save it most likely. The neuts seem to be hole fillers to get a +1 on batteclinic. Most places I have been in fill these holes with remote reps for fleet work. One of the few saving graces of raven in fleets, the highs allow full weapons load and extra room for rep.
MWD, more than enough cap to clear a bubble on a raven and then some (have flown these quite a bit, cap reliability and instability of the amarr and the hybrid bs' with certain ammos's it does not have). BS' aren't inties...they spank mwd's for small bursts of speed. If running MWD till your cap dies...means one of 2 things. Your are getting kited by something outside your sensor range. Just let it go, caldari has the slowest of all ships. They so slow they couldn't catch a cold. Or you jumped on the wrong warp in in fleet chat. Why burn for 2 minutes when you can warp to 10 in 1 after getting the right warp in for you. What I do anyway....ask for a better warp in (usually by ship, if in a rokh...I'll ask where are the rokh's at since no point warping to an amarr banana since my ranges and optimals not the same). Get the better warp in, warp out, warp in and do my thing.
|
Fournone
|
Posted - 2010.10.26 00:10:00 -
[22]
What are you guys talking about? I don't se.....wait, waaait.
Ok, now I see it. 
|
OT Smithers
|
Posted - 2010.10.26 06:44:00 -
[23]
Signed! If the MIGHTY Drake is so powerful it can drag down the servers, the Raven could easily take down the entire internet! 
|
Sakura Shiro
|
Posted - 2010.10.26 07:20:00 -
[24]
Drake, now raven. Will the rage turn to tengu next? Funny no one says nerf crow lol.
To be honest...if ccp would fix hybrids to equal dps and abilities of projectiles and lasers, ccp could remove missiles all together to slay the lag monster if thats what it takes. Did missile spam for over a year now...x-training to get away from it tbh.
|
Psihius
Caldari
Anarchist Dawn
U N K N O W N
|
Posted - 2010.10.26 09:36:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Psihius on 26/10/2010 09:45:59
Edited by: Psihius on 26/10/2010 09:39:19
You are forgetting that missiles in EFT and real EVE combat behave differently. Any target, lesser that a battleship, will receive less DPS due to signature and speed (and smaller the target, the less damage it can receive). Yes, you can launch missiles 150 km away, but you can't target paint that far away (if I remember correctly, it's 30 km optimal and 30 km falloff - so 60-70km). And try to make an active tank on raven - that's the reason why you will not see any raven (even CNR) in WH C4 and obove - Drake does better job at tanking sleepers. Amar and Gallente on the other side fit dual rep's with good DPS and just roll through with ease. So really, you can fit almost any ship into high DPS and tank, but those fits aren't really PvP one. Yes, missiles do a lot of damage on the paper, but that DPS just goes away in real world if target is smaller than what they are designed for. An Abadon sometimes instapop sleeper frigs on aproach (on second voley they die 100% if they are still aproaching), I have to make 7 or 8 voleys from my Drake (or tengu, really doesn't matter) before those bastards die. With missiles you have to web, scram and target paint to make good use of them even in PvE (all 3 goes for sleepers, as they move above 2km/sec on MWD and orbit in high speeds, have damn small signatures). Same goes for PvP. You just can't take on frigs or crusers, people with skill will just outrun the DPS and probably will take the Raven down. It takes balls and critically right fitting to make raven a mean machine, but with little EHP and active shield tank witch relies on cap boosters (and they tend to end fast, any combat taking longer that 5-6 minutes means raven with active tank is dead, faster if there are cap neutralizers).
Personally I don't even train Caldari BS, because with missiles there is no BS to fly (Scorpion is an E-War ship, not the DPS boat, needs RR). That's why I'm stuck with Drake and training for the Tengu. Will have to start training other race and guns.
And seriously, if you want to take your evemy down for good, you will not sit at 150 km, you have to at least warp disrupt you target. Most do warp scramble and web, what means the distance is up to 10 km, and here we have a different story. Most guns do much more DPS than missiles just buy changing the ammo. With missiles you have to decide while fitting - long range or extreme close range (mostly in warp disrupt module range except torpedoes).
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |