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WMunny	Posted - 2010.10.27 11:07:00 - [1] In my limited experience of this game (just a couple of weeks), I've come to the conclusion that New Eden is akin to Zimbabwe with lawlessness and disorder, and ISK is akin to Zimbabwean Dollars - worthless.
Alara IonStorm Agent-Orange	Posted - 2010.10.27 11:10:00 - [2] Edited by: Alara IonStorm on 27/10/2010 11:11:20 I see you are quiting, You won't be missed! Tootles 0/ -- I am now on a Crusade to Fix the Omen! For Great Justice!
Lady Spank Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2010.10.27 11:14:00 - [3] The truth here is the OP feels he is a worthless pleb because he can't have as much isk as the richest people in eve. As for discovering lawlessness and disorder, did you just pick a game at random to play? Spending 30 seconds reading about eve would tell you that. ~_~
sasabor	Posted - 2010.10.27 11:15:00 - [4] But that is just the whole point of the game, it is not everyday you can act as a evil dictator Besides in the batte between good and evil , evil has more fun
WMunny	Posted - 2010.10.27 11:20:00 - [5] Edited by: WMunny on 27/10/2010 11:21:39 Originally by: Lady Spank The truth here is the OP feels he is a worthless pleb because he can't have as much isk as the richest people in eve. Charming.
Lady Spank Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2010.10.27 11:33:00 - [6] Haha, GTFO and get a clue before shiptoasting about things you don't understand noob. If I see you in space I'm blowing up your worthless ISK. ~_~
WMunny	Posted - 2010.10.27 11:36:00 - [7] This was meant to be a semi-serious discussion about game dynamics and economy. I posed the opening question so as to be shot down in flames (so to speak) or to stir some kind of reasonable explanation. If you'd rather take a personal swipe at me then obviously I cannot stop you. Maybe you should chill a little.
Peter XZ Gallente	Posted - 2010.10.27 11:37:00 - [8] Originally by: WMunny In my limited experience of this game (just a couple of weeks), I've come to the conclusion that New Eden is akin to Zimbabwe with lawlessness and disorder, and ISK is akin to Zimbabwean Dollars - worthless. Excuse the rudeness of some players posting in this thread, I see your point, if you're quitting, please contract all your goods to me, and have a nice day :) AMAZING VIDEO http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koTGkgcMOL0[/url
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.10.27 11:40:00 - [9] Originally by: WMunny This was meant to be a semi-serious discussion about game dynamics and economy. Ok. What do you want to discuss? Quote: I posed the opening question No you didn't. You made a statement based on personal perception and limited experience, for no apparent reason. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
GizzyBoy	Posted - 2010.10.27 11:40:00 - [10] Your right isk is worthless, that's why some people trade in precious tears
Alara IonStorm Agent-Orange	Posted - 2010.10.27 11:40:00 - [11] Originally by: WMunny This was meant to be a semi-serious discussion about game dynamics and economy. I posed the opening question so as to be shot down in flames (so to speak) or to stir some kind of reasonable explanation. If you'd rather take a personal swipe at me then obviously I cannot stop you. Maybe you should chill a little. Gee I wonder why we are Flaming you, lets check out the OP. Originally by: WMunny In my limited experience of this game (just a couple of weeks), I've come to the conclusion that New Eden is akin to Zimbabwe with lawlessness and disorder, and ISK is akin to Zimbabwean Dollars - worthless. Yup thats why. You want to Discuss, ask questions and be specific not OMG game is worthless. -- I am now on a Crusade to Fix the Omen! For Great Justice!
Rakrist Caldari	Posted - 2010.10.27 11:42:00 - [12] Originally by: WMunny In my limited experience of this game
Mr Kidd	Posted - 2010.10.27 11:42:00 - [13] OP, don't mind these people that have replied so far. I suspect at least one is a dev alt who takes any negative comment towards the game personally. However, a couple of weeks is nothing in Eve. The biggest problem with Eve is it's lack of instant gratification. Not that it doesn't have any, it's just it doesn't have very much of it. Compounding the issue it the lack of easily accessible documentation and the game having little to no clearly defined direction guiding the player to an ultimate end. Further worsening the issue is the lack of casual play style. Oh, there will be people here who swear they play casually. Then you come to learn that 5 hours a day is casual to them. It's up to you to decide how you wish to proceed.
Alara IonStorm Agent-Orange	Posted - 2010.10.27 11:44:00 - [14] Originally by: Mr Kidd OP, don't mind these people that have replied so far. I suspect at least one is a dev alt who takes any negative comment towards the game personally. However, a couple of weeks is nothing in Eve. The biggest problem with Eve is it's lack of instant gratification. Not that it doesn't have any, it's just it doesn't have very much of it. Compounding the issue it the lack of easily accessible documentation and the game having little to no clearly defined direction guiding the player to an ultimate end. Further worsening the issue is the lack of casual play style. Oh, there will be people here who swear they play casually. Then you come to learn that 5 hours a day is casual to them. It's up to you to decide how you wish to proceed. Dev Alt Spotted! -- I am now on a Crusade to Fix the Omen! For Great Justice!
WMunny	Posted - 2010.10.27 11:50:00 - [15] Thanks Mr Kidd. Before anyone takes offence (probably too late for that now), I'm not griping at the game. I've enjoyed playing for the last couple of weeks, building a character from scratch and learning a whole new "world". It's very interesting, and I can see how people get hooked on it. I'm sure CPP take the economy of New Eden seriously.
Alara IonStorm Agent-Orange	Posted - 2010.10.27 11:54:00 - [16] Originally by: WMunny I'm sure CCP take the economy of New Eden seriously. They hired a man with a PHD in Economics Dr. Eyj=lfur Gu=mundsson to run it, so yes, yes the do. -- I am now on a Crusade to Fix the Omen! For Great Justice!
Abdiel Kavash Caldari Paladin Order Fidelas Constans	Posted - 2010.10.27 11:55:00 - [17] Originally by: WMunny In my limited experience of this game (just a couple of weeks), I've come to the conclusion that New Eden is akin to Zimbabwe with lawlessness and disorder, and ISK is akin to Zimbabwean Dollars - worthless. Originally by: Mr Kidd However, a couple of weeks is nothing in Eve. The biggest problem with Eve is it's lack of instant gratification. Not that it doesn't have any, it's just it doesn't have very much of it. Compounding the issue it the lack of easily accessible documentation and the game having little to no clearly defined direction guiding the player to an ultimate end. Further worsening the issue is the lack of casual play style. Oh, there will be people here who swear they play casually. Then you come to learn that 5 hours a day is casual to them. It's up to you to decide how you wish to proceed. Both of you are completely right, and all of the points you listed is exactly why I play EVE and why no other MMO ever compares, and most probably won't be able to compare to it in the future. ___________ EVE is dying! Now for real!
WMunny	Posted - 2010.10.27 11:57:00 - [18] The ISK cost of a PLEX has doubled over the past year. Inflation must be running very high.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.10.27 12:02:00 - [19] Originally by: WMunny The ISK cost of a PLEX has doubled over the past year. No. Quote: Inflation must be running very high. Which kind? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Lady Spank Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2010.10.27 12:03:00 - [20] Ships and modules are cheaper than ever, you are clueless. ~_~
Surogate	Posted - 2010.10.27 12:10:00 - [21] Originally by: WMunny This was meant to be a semi-serious discussion about game dynamics and economy. I posed the opening question so as to be shot down in flames (so to speak) or to stir some kind of reasonable explanation. If you'd rather take a personal swipe at me then obviously I cannot stop you. Maybe you should chill a little. Welcome to the eve-o forums.
WMunny	Posted - 2010.10.27 12:19:00 - [22] Looking at the graph for 30 Day Plex. 6 months ago the value was 255M and recently peaked at 390M. Put it like this. What is to stop me buying PLEX now and converting to 20BN ISK now?
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.10.27 12:25:00 - [23] Originally by: WMunny Looking at the graph for 30 Day Plex. 6 months ago the value was 255M and recently peaked at 390M. So, looking at the wrong period, not doubled, still centred around the average price they've had since day oneà Quote: Put it like this. What is to stop me buying PLEX now and converting to 20BN ISK now? Your unwillingness to spend $900. And is this "it" that you are putting like this? Stop beating around the bush. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Jennifer Starling	Posted - 2010.10.27 12:27:00 - [24] Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 27/10/2010 12:29:34 Originally by: WMunny Put it like this. What is to stop me buying PLEX now and converting to 20BN ISK now? Nothing, if that's what you want to do this may be the right time for it. That said, the fact that one thing is becoming more expensive doesn't mean ISK inflation. PLEX may have become more expensive because there's reasons to believe that CCP will introduce plex for remaps, which will cause far more demand. A lot of POS stuff is far more expensive now because CCP introduced PI. Almost all the ships, modules, T2 stuff, datacores are all a lot cheaper now than a year ago, though. Generally things have become a lot cheaper over time.
Surogate	Posted - 2010.10.27 12:28:00 - [25] Originally by: WMunny Looking at the graph for 30 Day Plex. 6 months ago the value was 255M and recently peaked at 390M. Put it like this. What is to stop me buying PLEX now and converting to 20BN ISK now? Only thing to limit you would be trying to sell so many plex' and keep the price as high as it is, the current price is inflated slightly from CCP's rescent campain to help Pakistan flood victims.
Jint Hikaru OffWorld Exploration Inc	Posted - 2010.10.27 12:35:00 - [26] Originally by: WMunny Looking at the graph for 30 Day Plex. 6 months ago the value was 255M and recently peaked at 390M. Put it like this. What is to stop me buying PLEX now and converting to 20BN ISK now? Well, you have already claimed that ISK is worthless... so I would hope that you have enough brains to not spend real life $$$ on something that you describe as "akin to Zimbabwean Dollars - worthless." ------------------------ Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer "I've got a couple of Strippers on my ship... and they just love to dance!" ------------------------
Ran Khanon Amarr Swords Horses and Heavy Metal	Posted - 2010.10.27 12:39:00 - [27] Mbona ripping juu ya watu kutoka Zimbabwe?! -_- ~~Recruiting!~~
WMunny	Posted - 2010.10.27 12:39:00 - [28] If I invest ú8,000 (GPB) now, I could become one of the richest individuals in the game immediately (by purchasing and selling 484 Plex units). That's equivalent to 40 years of game play.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.10.27 12:41:00 - [29] Originally by: WMunny If I invest ú8,000 (GPB) now, I could become one of the richest individuals in the game immediately (by purchasing and selling 484 Plex units). That's equivalent to 40 years of game play. Yes? Andà? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Jose Black	Posted - 2010.10.27 12:42:00 - [30] Originally by: WMunny What is to stop me buying PLEX now and converting to 20BN ISK now? Eventually at some point you'll encounter a lack of demand. That'd lower the price and maybe leave you sitting on a stack of PLEX you're not going to sell anytime soon. Since 20BN isn't much at all compared to Eve's economy it won't hit that point tho. If your point was you could generate inflation by converting PLEX you are wrong, because its just taking the ISK that already is in game.
Alara IonStorm Agent-Orange	Posted - 2010.10.27 12:43:00 - [31] Originally by: WMunny If I invest ú8,000 (GPB) now, I could become one of the richest individuals in the game immediately (by purchasing and selling 484 Plex units). That's equivalent to 40 years of game play. 182bil will probably not make you the richest, Cribba owns 4 titans alone and just took control of an outpost. The Entity has more then that in special issue ships, you will need more then 8000. It's over 9000! -- I am now on a Crusade to Fix the Omen! For Great Justice!
Surogate	Posted - 2010.10.27 12:46:00 - [32] Originally by: WMunny If I invest ú8,000 (GPB) now, I could become one of the richest individuals in the game immediately (by purchasing and selling 484 Plex units). That's equivalent to 40 years of game play. If you spent 8 grand on virtual money no one in eve would really care, and a week later you would still have the isk and everyone would have forgotten. Or spend 8 grand on a life changing trip around the world and still be forgoten in eve.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.10.27 12:50:00 - [33] Originally by: Surogate If you spent 8 grand on virtual money no one in eve would really care, Well hey: that would mean a one-time spike of 3% in the daily market activityà I'm sure some bot somewhere would notice such a tiny blip. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
gfldex	Posted - 2010.10.27 12:53:00 - [34] Originally by: WMunny This was meant to be a semi-serious discussion about game dynamics and economy. I posed the opening question so as to be shot down in flames (so to speak) or to stir some kind of reasonable explanation. If you'd rather take a personal swipe at me then obviously I cannot stop you. Maybe you should chill a little. False! Your post is lacking any form of argument, evidence or even logical reasoning. It is indeed wrong that folk flame for that blurp you produced. They should burn you. You are a troll in need of banning. Sadly CCP Games never understood to moderate this forum, turning it into a big troll magnet.
TheBlueMonkey Gallente Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.10.27 12:54:00 - [35] Originally by: Mr Kidd Edited by: Mr Kidd on 27/10/2010 11:46:17 OP, don't mind these people that have replied so far. I suspect at least one is a dev alt who takes any negative comment towards the game personally. And there are still others who have their heads so far up CCP's cheeks that when CCP feels personally offended clinching tightly so do those others. However, a couple of weeks is nothing in Eve. The biggest problem with Eve is it's lack of instant gratification. Not that it doesn't have any, it's just it doesn't have very much of it. Compounding the issue it the lack of easily accessible documentation and the game having little to no clearly defined direction guiding the player to an ultimate end. Further worsening the issue is the lack of casual play style. Oh, there will be people here who swear they play casually. Then you come to learn that 5 hours a day is casual to them. It's up to you to decide how you wish to proceed. You're an idiot, let me clarify before you take offence to that statement. "lack of instant gratification" Eve isn't supposed to be a "dive in, adhd, get bored, run off and do something else before your sugar crash" type of game. You can get online and get strating into some action if you know what you're doing\have a spot of luck but for the most part it's a much more thought out pace than the twitch and shoot first person shooters or wow. "easily accessible documentation" Todays tutorials are infinatly better than they used to be to start with but that aside there's alot of eve that won't hold your hand as it leads you through karazan. The reason for alot of this is the economy, if they made it easy to work stuff out alot of prices would crash so people don't publish their finds, rather they take full advantage of them for as long as they can untill others discover them too. "no clearly defined direction guiding the player to an ultimate end" It's a sand box... what more can I say? The end is the end you define be that ultimate mission grinder, top pvper, owning the largest collection of veldspar or what ever. Your ultimate end is jsut that YOUR ultimate end. Hell, if your only goal it to visit every system in eve do that then quit if you like. "lack of casual play style" Grinding missions... they take like an hour tops (although I've not done any in a while) Or small pvp, get a ship, head to some lowsec\0.0 job done. Couple of hours tops It's like me going to a cake shop and complaining about the lack of steak sandwiches. -- Nothing is worthless, you may have gotten it for free but it still has an inherent value
Jose Black	Posted - 2010.10.27 12:58:00 - [36] Originally by: WMunny I could become one of the richest individuals in the game immediately Eve is a lot about reputation. And reputation is far more than being rich. This thread hasn't exactly helped yours either you know.
WMunny	Posted - 2010.10.27 13:04:00 - [37] Originally by: gfldex Originally by: WMunny This was meant to be a semi-serious discussion about game dynamics and economy. I posed the opening question so as to be shot down in flames (so to speak) or to stir some kind of reasonable explanation. If you'd rather take a personal swipe at me then obviously I cannot stop you. Maybe you should chill a little. False! Your post is lacking any form of argument, evidence or even logical reasoning. It is indeed wrong that folk flame for that blurp you produced. They should burn you. You are a troll in need of banning. Sadly CCP Games never understood to moderate this forum, turning it into a big troll magnet. Incorrect. As a new player I am simply trying to understand the game dynamics and trying to understand the real value of things. Using ISK to measure the value of things is meaningless. You can't use a tape measure to measure a tape measure. You need a reference. Luckily we have a reference: PLEX. Plex currently trades for around 350M ISK Plex is one month of gameplay. Therefore: 1BN ISK = 3 months of gameplay 10BN ISK = 4 years and 9 months of gameplay 100BN = 24 years of gameplay So if you have 100BN spare, you can play EVE for free for the next 24 years.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.10.27 13:07:00 - [38] Originally by: WMunny Incorrect. As a new player I am simply trying to understand the game dynamics and trying to understand the real value of things. Using ISK to measure the value of things is meaningless. You can't use a tape measure to measure a tape measure. You need a reference. No, he's quite correct. What you're saying now is what you should have said in the OP: you are now, one and a half page later, beginning to present the argument you want to make and the questions you want to post. It's a bit late, don't you think? Quote: So if you have 100BN spare, you can play EVE for free for the next 24 years. Yes? And? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
My Postman	Posted - 2010.10.27 13:11:00 - [39] Originally by: WMunny In my limited experience of this game (just a couple of weeks), I've come to the conclusion that New Eden is akin to Zimbabwe with lawlessness and disorder, and ISK is akin to Zimbabwean Dollars - worthless. Well i don¦t know anything about Zimbabwe, but i know what you mean and you are perfectly right. To say iskies are worthless is false, as currently there is a slight DEflation. You got flamed by many of Crime and Punishment regulars who might have figured out that their own playground came a bit boring these days. Just don¦t care about that. Welcome to Eve.
WMunny	Posted - 2010.10.27 13:24:00 - [40] Is it fair to say, then, that time is money. I could spend the next 5 years building up a personal fortune in ISK. Or I could just buy it now. The same with characters. What can ISK not buy? Is it territory? Should that be the real focus of the game (since ISK and objects are, effectively, meaningless). If so, I can live with that.
Brian Ballsack	Posted - 2010.10.27 13:25:00 - [41] Mash it up a in a Zimbabwe
RiskyFrisky Under the Table Inc.	Posted - 2010.10.27 13:26:00 - [42] I'd say it's more like Liberia. Did anyone notice those severed genitalia on the gate into Rancer? -
Mike TheMiner	Posted - 2010.10.27 13:27:00 - [43] Originally by: WMunny Is it fair to say, then, that time is money. I could spend the next 5 years building up a personal fortune in ISK. Or I could just buy it now. The same with characters. What can ISK not buy? Is it territory? Should that be the real focus of the game (since ISK and objects are, effectively, meaningless). If so, I can live with that. ISk can buy everything except player skill. The real focus of the game is to do what you find enjoyable. Alot of people play just to accumulate vast amounts os ISK, personally i dont give a crap about ISK im here for the pvp, it is a pvp based game afterall, each to his own, remember that.
Surogate	Posted - 2010.10.27 13:28:00 - [44] Originally by: WMunny Is it fair to say, then, that time is money. I could spend the next 5 years building up a personal fortune in ISK. Or I could just buy it now. The same with characters. What can ISK not buy? Is it territory? Should that be the real focus of the game (since ISK and objects are, effectively, meaningless). If so, I can live with that. Eve is a sandbox game you make of it what you want, for some territory is their endgame, others just play to ruin it for others. What will be your endgame?
Brian Ballsack	Posted - 2010.10.27 13:30:00 - [45] You can have as much ISK or SP as you like and still be rubbish at what you do, this is shown hundreds of times, everyday across New Eden.
Ran Khanon Amarr Swords Horses and Heavy Metal	Posted - 2010.10.27 13:32:00 - [46] Originally by: WMunny Is it fair to say, then, that time is money. I could spend the next 5 years building up a personal fortune in ISK. Or I could just buy it now. The same with characters. What can ISK not buy? Is it territory? Should that be the real focus of the game (since ISK and objects are, effectively, meaningless). If so, I can live with that. Derp. Yes. Moneys can buy you everything. Including SOV. Just like in real life. Some people however, ENJOY building up something from scratch. Some people enjoy using THEIR SKILLS AND TALENTS and achieve ingame success by employing them. Some people also like the extensive social aspect to playing this particular game. Some people enjoy learning every little aspect to pvp, fitting and tactics to become as successful as possible in pew pew. Etc. Etc. The fun is in the actual playing of the game for a lot of people. Not in reaching some silly meta goal of becoming a multi trilionaire. ~~Recruiting!~~
Jennifer Starling	Posted - 2010.10.27 13:33:00 - [47] Originally by: WMunny Is it fair to say, then, that time is money. I could spend the next 5 years building up a personal fortune in ISK. Or I could just buy it now. The same with characters. What can ISK not buy? Is it territory? Should that be the real focus of the game (since ISK and objects are, effectively, meaningless). If so, I can live with that. It's not a bad idea to buy a character if EVE is what you think you want to play for some time. If you think ISK and objects are meaningless - why ever undock and play at all?! They're not meaningless, they're means to an end. Things you can't "buy" are of course player skill, knowledge about the game, friends. In the end, EVE is a game you pay for and invest time into, so you better have fun doing it.
Alara IonStorm Agent-Orange	Posted - 2010.10.27 13:36:00 - [48] Edited by: Alara IonStorm on 27/10/2010 13:38:14 Originally by: WMunny Is it fair to say, then, that time is money. I could spend the next 5 years building up a personal fortune in ISK. Or I could just buy it now. The same with characters. What can ISK not buy? Is it territory? Should that be the real focus of the game (since ISK and objects are, effectively, meaningless). If so, I can live with that. Do it we need more Honor Tanks! Just so I am not all cryptic the term comes from a newb who bought a bunch of Plex then bought a Character, He was accepted into an Alliance w/o them knowing this and took a faction fit nightmare to an 0.4 camped by a Supercarrier. He then yelled in teamspeak that his Honor was hurt and needed avenging, he took a Revelations Dread with all cargo expanders in the lows and attacked the Super alone. He then complained that his Alliance who's Sov and Fleet thirty jumps away did not defend his honor by getting there in 5 min to take out an irrelavent to them 0.4 camp because he was an idiot. When they saw the mail they freaked and kicked him and the guy who recommended him, and we got a new Meme. So go ahead and buy ISK see where it gets you! This has been an Alara certified cautionary tale! -- I am now on a Crusade to Fix the Omen! For Great Justice!
Brian Ballsack	Posted - 2010.10.27 13:39:00 - [49] Originally by: Alara IonStorm Do it we need more Honor Tanks! Just so I am not all cryptic the term comes from a newb who bought a bunch of Plex then bought a Character, He was accepted into an Alliance w/o them knowing this and took a faction fit nightmare to an 0.4 camped by a Supercarrier. He then yelled in teamspeak that his Honor was hurt and needed avenging, he took a Revelations Dread with all cargo expanders in the lows and attacked the Super alone. He then complained that his Alliance who's Sov and Fleet thirty jumps away did not defend his honor by getting there in 5 min to take out an irrelavent to them 0.4 camp because he was an idiot. When they saw the mail they freaked and kicked him and the guy who recommended him, and we got a new Meme. So go ahead and buy ISK see where it gets you! This has been an Alara certified cautionary tale! Nice story lol, We need more people like this.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.10.27 13:41:00 - [50] Btw, just to put your hypothetical PLEX scheme into some perspective Using your own numbers: ú8000 = 484 PLEXes @ 390M ISK = 189 billion ISK. You won't actually get this if you try it, but let's run with it anywayà The daily trade volume in EVE is just under 6 trillion ISK ù your little stunt generates a measly 3% spike in that trade ù and the daily inflow of new ISK is in the region of 1 trillion; the daily outflow isà unknown, but any difference between it and the inflow is more than counteracted by an inflow of goods. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
WMunny	Posted - 2010.10.27 13:47:00 - [51] Edited by: WMunny on 27/10/2010 13:48:58 Some excellent responses. Yes, I can see the enjoyment of the game is in the journey, not the destination. Originally by: Tippia You won't actually get this if you try it, but let's run with it anyway Why not. There are hundreds of units ready to buy @350 and thereabouts. Have I misread the Market? Originally by: Tippia The daily trade volume in EVE is just under 6 trillion ISK ù your little stunt generates a measly 3% spike in that trade ù and the daily inflow of new ISK is in the region of 1 trillion; the daily outflow isà unknown, but any difference between it and the inflow is more than counteracted by an inflow of goods. The idea is not to spook the market. The idea is to buy money. Does it not belittle the amount of effort people put into the game, the countless hours of mining and trading all to build a fortune, only for some noob to come along and buy it in 5 minutes? Maybe PLEX trading shouldn't be available to new accounts?
Jose Black	Posted - 2010.10.27 13:58:00 - [52] Originally by: WMunny The idea is not to spook the market. The idea is to buy money. Does it not belittle the amount of effort people put into the game, the countless hours of mining and trading all to build a fortune, only for some noob to come along and buy it in 5 minutes? Noob is exactly the point. If you spend time playing the game and earning your wealth you make the mistakes early. If you just go ahead purchasing wealth you do not gain the slightest bit of wisdom in the process. You will probably lose it as fast as you gained it.
Dani WH	Posted - 2010.10.27 13:59:00 - [53] Remember that we are in year 23340 (ingame: YC112) YC Obviously the accumulated inflation is so high, that an individual unit of money is worth nothing. For example, ask your grandparents, a big house used to cost 300 dollars, but now... costs more. Now think of year 23000 and future prices of things. LOL.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.10.27 14:02:00 - [54] Originally by: WMunny Why not. There are hundreds of units ready to buy @350 and thereabouts. Have I misread the Market? It has more to do with your ú→PLEX conversion. ú8000 should give you ~700 PLEXes, for one. For the other, you've already altered your PLEX price by 40M each. Quote: The idea is not to spook the market. It has more to do with adjusting your notion of "a lot of ISK". Quote: Does it not belittle the amount of effort people put into the game, the countless hours of mining and trading all to build a fortune, only for some noob to come along and buy it in 5 minutes? Not really. You're giving those hard workers free playtime instead. àor maybe they just don't care about ISK because they do what they do through other means and for other reasons. ànot to mention that they have access to intangible assets that ISK won't really touch, and which can very quickly and easily erode all that cash. àand, as others have alluded to, the fact that some n00b has a ton of ISK doesn't make him less of a n00b. He still has to learn the same lessons in the same (hard) way, only he will do it with billions instead of a few hundred thousands. Experience has shown that all that ISK will quickly be redistributed anyway. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Istvaan Shogaatsu Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2010.10.27 14:08:00 - [55] I lived in Zimbabwe. I wonder if I can remember any shona... Boy = musikana Girl = wasikana Pencil = penzura Aaand that's all I remember.
WMunny	Posted - 2010.10.27 14:09:00 - [56] Originally by: Tippia It has more to do with your ú→PLEX conversion. ú8000 should give you ~700 PLEXes, for one. For the other, you've already altered your PLEX price by 40M each. Let's not get bogged down in detail. The point is that a sizeable real-life cash injection would make a character very wealthy. Originally by: Tippia It has more to do with adjusting your notion of "a lot of ISK". Is 172BN not a lot of ISK?
Jennifer Starling	Posted - 2010.10.27 14:11:00 - [57] Originally by: WMunny Is 172BN not a lot of ISK? And so you (hypothetically) bought a lot of in-game money with RL money. What then? What's your point?
WMunny	Posted - 2010.10.27 14:15:00 - [58] Originally by: Jennifer Starling Originally by: WMunny Is 172BN not a lot of ISK? And so you (hypothetically) bought a lot of in-game money with RL money. What then? What's your point? What would you do with 172BN?
Jennifer Starling	Posted - 2010.10.27 14:19:00 - [59] Originally by: WMunny Originally by: Jennifer Starling Originally by: WMunny Is 172BN not a lot of ISK? And so you (hypothetically) bought a lot of in-game money with RL money. What then? What's your point? What would you do with 172BN? Depends. At this moment I can't really fly a lot of ships so I'm better served with skillpoints. As a matter of fact I have a whole fleet of t2-t3 ships that I can only fly in half a year, 1 year. Skillpoints is the bottleneck in this game, not ISK. At least if you don't buy high SP characters (which I don't).
Blnukem 192 Amarr Creed.	Posted - 2010.10.27 14:21:00 - [60] Better yet, why would you want that much isk? EVE would be pretty boring if you had that much. Originally by: CCP Navigator This is really not worthy of a thread.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.10.27 14:24:00 - [61] Originally by: WMunny Is 172BN not a lot of ISK? Depends what you do with it and what you compare it against. It can keep one person in bling for a time, or just plain old well-equipped for a (much) longer while. If you actually want to make a difference in the world, thoughà no. Once you start building (and maintaining) corps and larger-scale assets, it will dwindle fairly quickly. Since I don't fly them, I won't claim that it's entirely accurate, but as an example, I'd say you can buy maybe half a cap-fleet with that kind of moneyà and that can easily be lost in a single battle. Hell, some of the more ganks recently involved ships that cost 20-30 billion to fit (but on the other hand, those ships did raise eyebrows), so even for a single person, it can last a surprisingly short amount of time (and again, if you're a n00b, chances of this happening is far largerà so as you've seen, some people even encourage this kind of ISK purchases). So on an individual scale, it's a very nice chunk of change; on the larger scale of the EVE economy, it's not even a blip. It doesn't belittle the efforts of others because, again, that's a very pricey infusion of 190G ISKà but it is completely dwarfed by the 1000G ISK that happens daily by all those others, and which needs to happen daily to keep the economy going. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Jennifer Starling	Posted - 2010.10.27 14:24:00 - [62] Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 27/10/2010 14:27:44 Originally by: Blnukem 192 Better yet, why would you want that much isk? EVE would be pretty boring if you had that much. Not so sure about that. At least you can test and train ships without having to bother about making ISk to replace them. (For most people) making ISK to afford anything better than a (bigger than frigate sized) t1 ship with t2 modules is a huge and not always very entertaining time sink.
Monistat Seven Caldari	Posted - 2010.10.27 14:26:00 - [63] Originally by: WMunny What would you do with 172BN? I'd donate it to the next charitable cause, maybe the cause for killing yeast infections. (see what I did there) Or I would buy microtransactions for skill points... (and I see what you are doing here!)
Istvaan Shogaatsu Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2010.10.27 14:31:00 - [64] Originally by: Blnukem 192 Better yet, why would you want that much isk? EVE would be pretty boring if you had that much. This is profoundly true.
heheheh Phoenix Club	Posted - 2010.10.27 14:43:00 - [65] Edited by: heheheh on 27/10/2010 14:46:27 Originally by: WMunny Let's not get bogged down in detail. The point is that a sizeable real-life cash injection would make a character very wealthy. And the Point many other people have made is that no matter how much ISK you have, you may still be rubbish at the game. No amount of ISK can teach you how to play the game, alot of people having loads of ISK does nothing to the gameplay apart from adding to it by giving people that know how to play free stuff, via easy kills that could easily have been avoided.
Judas Scammer	Posted - 2010.10.27 14:47:00 - [66] Rabid fanbois? I don't really see any whining in OP's post or anything to rage about???
Brian Ballsack	Posted - 2010.10.27 14:51:00 - [67] Edited by: Brian Ballsack on 27/10/2010 14:52:12 Originally by: Judas Scammer Rabid fanbois? I don't really see any whining in OP's post or anything to rage about??? Sooo what would one do to be conosidored a fanbois by yourself ? People are just defending the gameplay in this thread and trying to tell the OP that large amounts of purchased ISK means nothing. Try comprehend a bit more before you post your drivel, you should stick to the wow forums.
Jennifer Starling	Posted - 2010.10.27 14:51:00 - [68] Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 27/10/2010 14:56:26 Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Originally by: Blnukem 192 Better yet, why would you want that much isk? EVE would be pretty boring if you had that much. This is profoundly true. I'd gladly take up that challenge. Originally by: Brian Ballsack People are just defending the gameplay in this thread and trying to tell the OP that large amounts of purchased ISK means nothing. ISK does mean something. As does SP.
Judas Scammer	Posted - 2010.10.27 14:53:00 - [69] Originally by: Brian Ballsack Edited by: Brian Ballsack on 27/10/2010 14:52:12 Originally by: Judas Scammer Rabid fanbois? I don't really see any whining in OP's post or anything to rage about??? Sooo what would one do to be conosidored a fanbois by yourself ? People are just defending the gameplay in this thread and trying to tell the OP that large amounts of purchased ISK means nothing. Try comprehend a bit more before you post your drivel, you should stick to the wow forums. Yes but the OP didn't even whine/complain/attack the gameplay at all! So there is nothing to defend!?
Brian Ballsack	Posted - 2010.10.27 15:01:00 - [70] Aye the OP was ok but its the following posts i think that did it where he says he can just buy loads of ISK and undermine what everyone has been doing, and when he mentions that everythings worthless because he can buy ISK, which is totally the wrong assumption to make.
Xanaan Zenithdul	Posted - 2010.10.27 15:04:00 - [71] Originally by: WMunny Put it like this. What is to stop me buying PLEX now and converting to 20BN ISK now? Because you are broke ass kiddo whining in eve's general forum about plex price, I highly doubt that if you dont afford on putting 15$ monthly on game subscription, you seriously, will not have the cash for getting plex's worth of 20 bil. Farm more kid and stfu.
WMunny	Posted - 2010.10.27 15:09:00 - [72] Originally by: Xanaan Zenithdul Because you are broke ass kiddo whining in eve's general forum about plex price, I highly doubt that if you dont afford on putting 15$ monthly on game subscription, you seriously, will not have the cash for getting plex's worth of 20 bil. Farm more kid and stfu. Eh? How do you know my financial status in RL? Maye I've been focusing on the wrong things in the last two weeks. Initially I ran all the tutorials, then completed the Sisters of Eve Arc. That left with with about 18M ISK. I used some of that to by training, etc, and dropped down to 3M. So I started trading and after a few days now have 15M ISK. But it's deadly boring, especially knowing that within 5 mins I could just buy 2BN ISK (or as much as needed).
Mike TheMiner	Posted - 2010.10.27 15:30:00 - [73] Well if you think its going to be easier then buy some ISK, alot of people do as they dont like doing the things that they need to make it or they dont have the time. I personally wouldnt play if there were so many parts of the game that i hated. Bare in mind the more you buy, the more you will lose :P
Carver DiGriz Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2010.10.27 15:30:00 - [74] Hmm. Get all the isk you like. At two weeks, a pilot with too much isk is just a jackpot to the players who've played longer (and often, just a little longer) and learned how to operate. What I find the funniest is that this is on the third page, and this has passed without comment Originally by: WMunny I've come to the conclusion that New Eden is akin to Zimbabwe with lawlessness and disorder For someone who takes his name from the same fictional character who says "That's right. I've killed women and children. I've killed just about everything that walks or crawled at one time or another," I'd like to see a bit more appreciation for lawlessness.
Shaalira D'arc	Posted - 2010.10.27 15:32:00 - [75] ISK is means to an end. Having lots of ISK makes your goals easier, but it doesn't necessarily get you there. Say you're a 1 day old newbie with 182 bn isk. Aside from the fat wallet, you have only the skills and knowledge of a 1-day old newbie. Let's juggle out some hypothetical goals. 1) Be Good at PvP ISK will help you replace the ships you will inevitably lose. That's it. Experience and player skill are essential to PvP in EVE. New players who buy expensive ships through PLEX sales are valued as trophy prey, as they do not know how to fit or fly their ships properly. In the end, you will run into the same bottlenecks as other new players diving into the wide world of PvP - skill training time and combat experience. What you can do is buy a combat-capable character through the Character Bazaar (see a few forums down), but you will still run into the problems of experience and judgment. First, you'd have to know what skills matter the most in PvP, and you may end up buying a badly-skilled character. Second, even if you had a great character and a great ship, there are a host of player (not character) skills to develop if you want to be good. Check out some of the PvP vids in the My EVE forum if you want to see how much the pilot matters in combat. 2) Build a Business Empire If you want to be a CEO, you'll need knowledge of the market to find your own niche. You'll also need knowledge of common player activities to create a corporation that would appeal to new members while sustaining a community. You should also be starting off with some contacts in order to be the core of your new corporation. It is possible to build a corporation from scratch, but there'll be a lot of non-monetary obstacles to getting it off the ground. First off, as CEO, you will need a bunch of corporate management skills in order to establish and manage your corporation. You can use your ISK to avail of corporation and alliance creation services out there, but you'll have to be careful in your research to make sure you don't get scammed. Additionally, recruiting will have to be done carefully. Once you start advertising, it's pretty easy to see that the fledgling CEO is a newbie with lots of money. Expect lots of corporate infiltration and theft attempts, in addition to war declarations and racketeering. In short, trying to build a business empire as a newbie with lots of money invites scams and robbery. 3) Take Territory To take and hold nullsec territories, you will need a military force. Your ISK can buy you mercenaries for a short period of time, but trustworthy mercenaries are expensive and you'll find your $182 bn running out fast. Building up your own military force out of skilled PvP pilots will be slow-going. Many PvP pilots up for recruitment are searching for a well-established outfit with reputable FCs (fleet commanders) or clear benefits such as ship compensation. If you're a newbie yourself, you'll lack any kind of gravitas for attracting good pilots. Fighting on your own with your alts is not an option. Any half-baked nullsec organization will kick you out and take your hard work in a heartbeat. Even if you take and hold some remote corner of nullsec, you'll need an active population to make it profitable. See #2 for the perils of making your own business venture. There are renter groups out there, but taking in renters has its own dangers. 4) Make ISK Well, you're there already. Kind of. You're rich, but not the richest, or maybe not even in the top tiers. There are trillionaires in EVE who have the contacts, friends, and reputation (or infamy) to make the most use of their fat wallets. You'll be an unknown in a community of sharks. You can try to become the richest through pure PLEX sales but it's really an empty goal. All you'll end up doing is fattening CCP's wallet with tens of thousands of dollars while pushing down PLEX price
WMunny	Posted - 2010.10.27 15:33:00 - [76] Originally by: Carver DiGriz At two weeks, a pilot with too much isk is just a jackpot to the players who've played longer (and often, just a little longer) and learned how to operate. Sorry - I don't understand. If I lose my ship do I also lose my bank?
market checks	Posted - 2010.10.27 15:48:00 - [77] Not right away, but you will lose a lot of overpriced ships to ships that you should have beaten. It tends to add up rather quickly. http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=11430878 is an good example of a fight won because of pilot skill rather than character skill or isk.
Jennifer Starling	Posted - 2010.10.27 16:04:00 - [78] Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 27/10/2010 16:06:17 Originally by: market checks Not right away, but you will lose a lot of overpriced ships to ships that you should have beaten. It tends to add up rather quickly. http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=11430878 is an good example of a fight won because of pilot skill rather than character skill or isk. Verry funny - but after 2 weeks of playing you can't even fly expensive ships. As I said before, skilltraining speed is the true bottleneck in this game, not ISK, not player skill nor knowledge of the game.
Shaalira D'arc	Posted - 2010.10.27 16:07:00 - [79] Originally by: Jennifer Starling As I said before, skilltraining speed is the true bottleneck in this game, not ISK, not player skill nor knowledge of the game. Not completely true. There's a character bazaar.
market checks	Posted - 2010.10.27 16:11:00 - [80] True, skill points do limit you, but I didn't want to use the reaper kills rifter example because when you have a billion plus isk you'd have to faction fit your rifters for it to make a difference. Aslo training to a bc really doesn't take that long.
Jennifer Starling	Posted - 2010.10.27 16:25:00 - [81] Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 27/10/2010 16:29:16 Originally by: market checks True, skill points do limit you, but I didn't want to use the reaper kills rifter example because when you have a billion plus isk you'd have to faction fit your rifters for it to make a difference. Aslo training to a bc really doesn't take that long. That's true of course, you can fit your rookie ship with Estamel's Modified .. and Gistii X-types. But I guess you do get the picture, as a rookie you won't be able to do a lot for a while, even with a lot of cash. Originally by: Shaalira D'arc Originally by: Jennifer Starling As I said before, skilltraining speed is the true bottleneck in this game, not ISK, not player skill nor knowledge of the game. Not completely true. There's a character bazaar. That's correct. I would recommend everyone with a lot of RL cash to get one (even if I don't like the idea) because imo playing EVE from zero is kind of (very) tedious. If you can find one with a decent name, they're quite rare.
Lubomir Penev Sausages of Truth	Posted - 2010.10.27 16:32:00 - [82] Originally by: Alara IonStorm Originally by: WMunny I'm sure CCP take the economy of New Eden seriously. They hired a man with a PHD in Economics Dr. Eyj=lfur Gu=mundsson to run it, so yes, yes the do. Anyone caring about economics would not hire an Icelandic economist, in those days and time it would be like hiring an orthodox communist economist in 1992... As a PR piece it kinda worked still...
Thrasymachus TheSophist	Posted - 2010.10.27 17:02:00 - [83] OP's error is in thinking that whoever has the most wealth in Eve wins, and then the next richest, then the next, etc. People don't care if you get rich or buy a ton of ISK because it doesn't matter to them. They too could buy ISK if they wanted. They choose to earn it in game because they prefer to earn it then buy it. If you don't like the slog - go for it and buy 10 GTCs. Its not like other games where buying in-game money is considered dirty or cheating or cause for alarm.
Mike TheMiner	Posted - 2010.10.27 17:11:00 - [84] Originally by: Jennifer Starling . I would recommend everyone with a lot of RL cash to get one (even if I don't like the idea) because imo playing EVE from zero is kind of (very) tedious. If you can find one with a decent name, they're quite rare. I would advise the opposite, the journey there is as enjoyable as the destionation to me, each to his own, none of it was tedious.
Jennifer Starling	Posted - 2010.10.27 17:17:00 - [85] Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 27/10/2010 17:23:31 Originally by: Mike TheMiner Originally by: Jennifer Starling . I would recommend everyone with a lot of RL cash to get one (even if I don't like the idea) because imo playing EVE from zero is kind of (very) tedious. If you can find one with a decent name, they're quite rare. I would advise the opposite, the journey there is as enjoyable as the destionation to me, each to his own, none of it was tedious. I guess it depends on what you want, I want to fly a lot of sub capital ships and t2 and t3 stuff and it takes a bit verrrry long. I already made the money (and no, I never bought a plex) to buy all the ships I want, in fact I already bought them plus faction and deadspace modules, I have 8+ standings with a handful of corps and now I'm already waiting a few months to be able to fly more ships than I can now (t2 fit BC) and it will take several more months until I'm finally able to do so - and fit them with t2 modules, of course. I want to do it with some thoroughness and that really takes AGES. Not speaking of those idiotic learning skills that add another 2 months to the queue. Tbh I'm really quite bored now. With hindsight I may as well have bought plexes and got myself a decent character, I would have been able to do a lot more now.
WMunny	Posted - 2010.10.27 17:21:00 - [86] Edited by: WMunny on 27/10/2010 17:23:11 After considerable thought I've come to the conclusion that I don't want to waste my time building an imaginary bank by minding/trading/other. Life is too short. I do that in real life. 2BN ISK on its way.
Jennifer Starling	Posted - 2010.10.27 17:27:00 - [87] Originally by: WMunny After considerable thought I've come to the conclusion that I don't want to waste my time building an imaginary bank by minding/trading/other. Life is too short. I do that in real life. 2BN ISK on its way. Good luck skilling up!
WMunny	Posted - 2010.10.27 17:38:00 - [88] Yes, that also is a concern. But I'm willing to wait whilst learning the game. But no more piddly 500K trade trips!
WMunny	Posted - 2010.10.27 18:07:00 - [89] I take it the first things I should buy would be implants to boost training times? Is it simply a case of choosing the most expensive ones?
Yuki Kulotsuki	Posted - 2010.10.27 18:12:00 - [90] For the low low price of 200m isk I can provide you with all the information you will need regarding implant, skill and ship purchases as well as training plans and guides. Originally by: CCP Lemur THIS IS GOD: ... IF YOU HAVE ANY MORE REQUESTS I'M AVAILABLE SUNDAY FROM 10:30 TO 12:00 TO RECEIVE YOUR PRAYERS.
Jennifer Starling	Posted - 2010.10.27 18:16:00 - [91] Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 27/10/2010 18:35:32 Originally by: WMunny I take it the first things I should buy would be implants to boost training times? Is it simply a case of choosing the most expensive ones? Train the learning skills to V, the "Learning" skill to V, the advanced (Rank 3) learning skills to IV (Logic and Clarity optional to V as well). Train Cybernetrics to V as it's a prerequisite to have +5 implants (~110 million a piece). Now you're almost at max speed training speed. More specifically (just a rough idea to start with): 1) train Instant Recall to III 2) train Analytical Mind to III 3) train Cybernetics to I 4) buy a set of +3 implants (~10 million a piece) and inject them 5) train Instant Recall to IV 6) train Eidetic Memory to II or III 7) ... there's plenty of guides to max out these skills asap. And don't forget to install EVEmon!! Cya in 2,5 months! (always happy to help! ;))
WMunny	Posted - 2010.10.27 18:40:00 - [92] Thank you Agent Starling. As it happens - I did quite a bit of research regarding training before doing much else. I'm up to Level 4 on all learning skills, and have Level 3 on Advanced Memory. I already have some low grade implants. I'm busy now training Cybernetics up to Level 5 (from Level II). So it shouldn't be too long before I have that all maxed out. I also still have the 100% bonus. But I would suggest all new serious players do this. But 6 x PLEX for 100 Euros, buy all the augmentors, get the skill training boosted asap, then continue. Seems the only reasonable way to get on.
Jennifer Starling	Posted - 2010.10.27 18:50:00 - [93] Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 27/10/2010 18:55:01 Originally by: WMunny Thank you Agent Starling. As it happens - I did quite a bit of research regarding training before doing much else. I'm up to Level 4 on all learning skills, and have Level 3 on Advanced Memory. I already have some low grade implants. I'm busy now training Cybernetics up to Level 5 (from Level II). So it shouldn't be too long before I have that all maxed out. I also still have the 100% bonus. In case you're in doubt about training them to IV or V read my old post about when training skills pay themselves back (if you haven't seen it yet during your research). What research (which I encourage) is concerned, the forum and the wikis (also the "unofficial" one is very handy, it's less diplomatic - if a ship is crap it just says so - and the module overviews are far better than on the official one) are very helpful. Most EVE things aren't that complicated, there's just a lot of things to learn. And some things you only find out by trying.
WMunny	Posted - 2010.10.27 19:02:00 - [94] Thank you again Agent Starling. I will train Cybernetics to 5 now to buy the +5 implants, then complete to 5 all the Learning skills. Whilst I have the 100% bonus this seems the sensible thing to do.
Rakrist Caldari	Posted - 2010.10.27 19:03:00 - [95] Can't believe no one seems to have recommended this explicitly ITT yet, but for the love of God, join a corp that does some sort of regular PvP this instant. Irrespective of how you make your isk, Eve gets old fast without the social element. Another reason buying isk early is sort of pointless is because a good corp will provide most of what a new player needs within reason. But mostly, joining a corp is important because shared goals are often more compelling in the long term than solo goals.
Jennifer Starling	Posted - 2010.10.27 19:24:00 - [96] Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 27/10/2010 19:28:27 Originally by: Rakrist Can't believe no one seems to have recommended this explicitly ITT yet, but for the love of God, join a corp that does some sort of regular PvP this instant. Irrespective of how you make your isk, Eve gets old fast without the social element. It's a mmorpg after all, very true. But in EVE there's the choice between investing in long term goals at the expense of short term gratification and fun. You can't have both. Originally by: Rakrist Another reason buying isk early is sort of pointless is because a good corp will provide most of what a new player needs within reason. But mostly, joining a corp is important because shared goals are often more compelling in the long term than solo goals. A corp won't provide you with +5 implants, they may give you some t1 frigates and cruisers with a few 100k to a few million. But for social interaction and questions it's a nice thing. That brings us to another issue: podding. If you engage in PvP there's no guarantee that your opponent will not pod you. Even in RvB this happens, although it's frowned upon. And the one thing you don't want in EVE is being podded - because it also destroys your implants and we both know how much they cost. A lot more than a t1 frigate or cruiser. So before doing that I¦d recommend getting jump clones, if you really want to PvP you can leave your learning implants (and their skilling speed bonus) behind but at least you won¦t lose them. Of course it's a matter of choice/priority but if someone chooses to "take it easy" at the start it will pay itself back in the long run. It's just how the mechanics in EVE work, I didn't invent them (and I would definitely have done it differently)!
WMunny	Posted - 2010.10.27 19:27:00 - [97] Edited by: WMunny on 27/10/2010 19:28:56 Thanks again Starling. I forgot that implants would be destroyed. Jump Clones definitely the way to go. You've been most helpful. And thanks Rakrist - I'll definitely start looking for a corp. That's right. I've killed women and children. I've killed just about everything that walks or crawled at one time or another. And I'm here to kill you, ... for what you did to Ned.
Jennifer Starling	Posted - 2010.10.27 19:33:00 - [98] Originally by: WMunny Thanks again Starling. I forgot that implants would be destroyed. Jump Clones definitely the way to go. You've been most helpful. And thanks Rakrist - I'll definitely start looking for a corp. Contact Estel Arador in game - he can get you one or more Jump clones for free without problems. Just keep in mind that you need a new one every time you lose one. And that you need to train Infomorph Psychology first.
Barkaial Starfinder Minmatar The Kairos Syndicate Transmission Lost	Posted - 2010.10.27 23:44:00 - [99] I don't think you are really a new guy in EVE, but anyway.. If you are really new, don't start using V implants right now. It's just too much time to train for cybernetics V in the beggining (boring), too much ISK and fear of being podded, for very little benefit. Do that when you have 1 year of EVE IMO. If I were starting now, with 2bi ISK in my wallet, I'd love if someone directed me to play FW with frigates. You have money to fit them properly, just do some research. You might find a nice corporation doing FW and join them.. Learning PVP from the ground is the best way.
TR4D3R4LT	Posted - 2010.10.28 01:24:00 - [100] Originally by: WMunny I take it the first things I should buy would be implants to boost training times? Is it simply a case of choosing the most expensive ones? Send me 500 mil isk in contract in-game and I'll contract all the implants and skillbooks for next 6 months that boost you the best way.
Brian Ballsack	Posted - 2010.10.28 01:27:00 - [101] Edited by: Brian Ballsack on 28/10/2010 01:34:01 Edited by: Brian Ballsack on 28/10/2010 01:33:19 Originally by: WMunny Thank you Agent Starling. As it happens - I did quite a bit of research regarding training before doing much else. I'm up to Level 4 on all learning skills, and have Level 3 on Advanced Memory. I already have some low grade implants. I'm busy now training Cybernetics up to Level 5 (from Level II). So it shouldn't be too long before I have that all maxed out. I also still have the 100% bonus. But I would suggest all new serious players do this. But 6 x PLEX for 100 Euros, buy all the augmentors, get the skill training boosted asap, then continue. Seems the only reasonable way to get on. lol dont offer advice when you clearly have no clue, 100 euros just for training skills when you dont even need them to play is only a good choice for those that dont want to play much for a few months. I advise people to mix in the learning skills with other skills that enable you to do better in what you are currently doing in game at the very start, save the longer skills until you have done alot of the learning ones and just train your cybernetics to 3 or 4 at the start, as level 5 is not really needed until you start to train the very long skills. Training only for max learning and cybernetics 5 at the begining of a chars life leave you with just your starting skills and unable to do much in game for a fair while.
KaarBaak Minmatar Hell's Librarians Darkmatter Initiative	Posted - 2010.10.28 01:38:00 - [102] Originally by: Ran Khanon Mbona ripping juu ya watu kutoka Zimbabwe?! -_- English only on the forums, please. KB Removed. Please keep your signature completely in English. Navigator I think that core audiences in the West are big fans of simply paying that monthly subscription and getting everything, and so I think we're going to stick with that. --S
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.10.28 02:30:00 - [103] WMunny troll, best troll... _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Plastician Invictus Australis BricK sQuAD.	Posted - 2010.10.28 02:38:00 - [104] Originally by: Akita T WMunny troll, best troll... Indeed, but it has provided a fairly good discussion with an equal mix of flaming and constructive responses. So does that make him a fail troll?
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.10.28 02:40:00 - [105] Originally by: Plastician So does that make him a fail troll? More like "accidentally useful troll" _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Atrei Capital	Posted - 2010.10.28 03:47:00 - [106] ITT: Person who doesn't realize the amount of ISK you make increases vastly after the first couple weeks of buildup. Buying a couple PLEX is a nice start for a newcomer. Buying 2b seems excessive, but to each his own, I suppose. Eagerly awaiting 'qq i died i lost real money this is <profanity>' thread. I never did understand the lure of trying to buy victory in a video game, but I can't complain too much; all those PLEX fund my alts.
Herzog Wolfhammer Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2010.10.28 04:13:00 - [107] I find the game has plenty of law and order.
Ascendic Lyonesse. The Makhai	Posted - 2010.10.28 05:22:00 - [108] I don't know about you guys...... But I am personally extremely horrified that this thread as not burned in hell...espeiclaly after 4 pages. WTF is going on in mah EVES! Where are the angry trolls? We must burn this hethen! Before his idiocy spreads. Oh and WMunny. Please park your pod in Osaa for me on the station there. I have never seen +5 implants in person and would like to examine them more closely, and especially test their combustability.
Yavanna Akallabeth	Posted - 2010.10.28 06:30:00 - [109] Originally by: WMunny Looking at the graph for 30 Day Plex. 6 months ago the value was 255M and recently peaked at 390M. Put it like this. What is to stop me buying PLEX now and converting to 20BN ISK now? Its all about time, what is faster? pssst...this is how you get started in EVE do it buy some iskies and learn the game as you skill up, forget about doing any grinding for now. Pace yourself this quest going to take awhile.
NewGit Caldari Rusty Industries	Posted - 2010.10.28 09:27:00 - [110] Originally by: Ascendic I have never seen +5 implants in person and would like to examine them more closely, and especially test their combustability. Not to mention the fully faction/officer fitted faction frigate being flown. Hmmm, Fail Flying Fully Faction Fitted Frigates. --------------*
Phosphorus Palladium	Posted - 2010.10.28 09:36:00 - [111] Originally by: Lady Spank The truth here is the OP feels he is a worthless pleb because he can't have as much isk as the richest people in eve. You know Spank, I whish sentences like this would still hold true... But with plex anyone can be super rich in EVE, even the biggest of fools.
Rashmika Clavain Gallente	Posted - 2010.10.28 09:49:00 - [112] So you're being oppressed because of the colour of your skin/**d/mutilated/starving/murdered? No? Ahh sorry, I thought comparing a **ing computer game to the hell that is currently Zimbabwe was a bit silly really.
WMunny	Posted - 2010.10.28 09:57:00 - [113] I can see you are very offended. Signature removed for not being EVE related. Zymurgist
Lady Spank Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2010.10.28 10:14:00 - [114] Originally by: Phosphorus Palladium Originally by: Lady Spank The truth here is the OP feels he is a worthless pleb because he can't have as much isk as the richest people in eve. You know Spank, I whish sentences like this would still hold true... But with plex anyone can be super rich in EVE, even the biggest of fools. Anyone putting RL money into a videogame in the belief it gives them equal footing is automatically stupid. ~_~
WMunny	Posted - 2010.10.28 10:26:00 - [115] Really? Or is mining for 40 hours for 500M stupid, when 20Euros (earned in an hour or two in real life) does the same thing? Now tell me who is stupid? Signature removed for not being EVE related. Zymurgist
Lady Spank Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2010.10.28 10:38:00 - [116] Originally by: WMunny Really? Or is mining for 40 hours for 500M stupid, when 20Euros (earned in an hour or two in real life) does the same thing? Now tell me who is stupid? Both, and while you are a terrible troll, you don't know how to efficiently make isk in game. ~_~
WMunny	Posted - 2010.10.28 10:45:00 - [117] In my opinion, and speaking as a novice, the game dynamics are broken in terms of ISK, making it far more economical to buy ISK than to earn it - until getting to the stage of the high in-game earners who, I presume, can be earning billions per month (by utilising their skill and assets?). The majority of people (90%?) seem to be squabbling over 10% of the wealth by mining and trading. I've now purchased 12 months PLEX and sold for 4BN. Extreme? As a new player all I've done is paid for my membership "up front". My Cybernetics training is nearing completion and soon I'll have +5implants all round. My learning skills will be maxed out shortly after that. So within a month I've gone from nothing to a character with maxed out learning skills, max cybernetic implants, and a shed load of cash. In the meantime I've been gaining experience flying around New Eden doing missions and learning stuff. How many one-year-old players can say all of the above? And how many can say they've done it in a month? Signature removed for not being EVE related. Zymurgist
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.10.28 10:49:00 - [118] Edited by: Tippia on 28/10/2010 10:55:14 Originally by: WMunny How many one-year-old players can say all of the above? And how many can say they've done it in a month? Most of them. The only difference between you and any other new player is that, at the end of that year, your mistakes will have been much more expensive (and you might not have learned as much from them). ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Jennifer Starling	Posted - 2010.10.28 10:53:00 - [119] Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 28/10/2010 10:57:13 Originally by: Tippia Originally by: WMunny How many one-year-old players can say all of the above? And how many can say they've done it in a month? Most of them. Don't be silly, you're just jealous! There's more than a few people in EVE that don't bother about ISk grinding, be it by endless mining or missioning. If you have plenty of RL cash to space, why not? The amount of RL cash you earn in an hour is always more than the equivalent in ISK. And on the other side there's always people who are short of RL cash but lots of time to play and grind ISK who love the opportunity to play "for free".
Noob Ki'Lear	Posted - 2010.10.28 11:00:00 - [120] Originally by: Plastician Originally by: Akita T WMunny troll, best troll... Indeed, but it has provided a fairly good discussion with an equal mix of flaming and constructive responses. So does that make him a fail troll? I have followed this thread since he posted it, he has had everything in here, from the firey flames of bitter vets to, helpful and informative post by other less bitter vets. Being able to engage many different players shows me he is going to do well in here. Welcome to Eve WMunny
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.10.28 11:01:00 - [121] Originally by: WMunny In my opinion, and speaking as a novice, the game dynamics are broken in terms of ISK, making it far more economical to buy ISK than to earn it - until getting to the stage of the high in-game earners who, I presume, can be earning billions per month (by utilising their skill and assets?). The majority of people (90%?) seem to be squabbling over 10% of the wealth by mining and trading. I've now purchased 12 months PLEX and sold for 4BN. Extreme? As a new player all I've done is paid for my membership "up front". My Cybernetics training is nearing completion and soon I'll have +5implants all round. My learning skills will be maxed out shortly after that. So within a month I've gone from nothing to a character with maxed out learning skills, max cybernetic implants, and a shed load of cash. In the meantime I've been gaining experience flying around New Eden doing missions and learning stuff. How many one-year-old players can say all of the above? And how many can say they've done it in a month? You seem to assume that making enough ISK in-game to buy +5s within a month is exceptional or unusual. Oh and if you've trained Cybernetics 5, how could you have "maxed" your learning skills within a month? Incidentally, at the end of my first year, I was in my 3rd 0.0 alliance, had fought in 3 major campaigns, had a fully faction-fitted CNR for running missions, and I was running a PvP corp. But I did only fly around with +4s in, so I guess I failed there. Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
Lady Spank Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2010.10.28 11:07:00 - [122] Jennifer and your stupid alt, most people get their learning skills out of the way in the first month (or two if they aren't bothered about min/maxing). +5 implants are nice and all but really equating max learning and a small amount of isk as being a real advantage then you are truly clueless. 4b is laughable as a yardstick for any sort of 'achievement'. Again, this is really for the benefit of any new players that reads your nonsense and takes it seriously. With your attitude you will likely never want to leave your +5 clone and it will prevent you from engaging in any risky activity. That leaves you with all that stuff that people do to grind isk... but you don't need to do that because you bought some. Now you have a character that can train fast, can barely do anything else for the time being and that has no reason to run any pve content. Congratulations. ~_~
WMunny	Posted - 2010.10.28 11:10:00 - [123] Originally by: Noob Ki'Lear Welcome to Eve WMunny No, I'm not going to give you my 4BN, so stop blowing smoke up my @rse. (Agent Starling is more than welcome to, after all her kind comments!) However, I will be looking for partnerships in the near future. Signature removed for not being EVE related. Zymurgist
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.10.28 11:15:00 - [124] Edited by: Tippia on 28/10/2010 11:17:38 Originally by: Lady Spank 4b is laughable as a yardstick for any sort of 'achievement'. Oh, I don't knowà when I earned my first billion, it was a glorious moment. Unfortunately, the OP has robbed himself of that sense of personal achievement and progression. edit: But yesà the fourth billion was fairly unspectacular, so I guess you're right in a way. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
WMunny	Posted - 2010.10.28 11:23:00 - [125] Edited by: WMunny on 28/10/2010 11:26:03 Originally by: Lady Spank With your attitude you will likely never want to leave your +5 clone and it will prevent you from engaging in any risky activity. That leaves you with all that stuff that people do to grind isk... but you don't need to do that because you bought some. Now you have a character that can train fast, can barely do anything else for the time being and that has no reason to run any pve content. Congratulations. What are you talking about? If I get podded and lose the implants I'll just buy some new ones. Can barely do anything else? In my first week I did some basic systems training, completed all the tutorials, and completed the Sisters of Eve Arc (with the help of a kind player for the final battle). At the same time I trained up to Level 4 all the basic training skills, and now have Intelligence and Memory trained to Level 3 in advanced. I'm about 8 days away from Cybernetics 5, will buy the +5implants and get training on whatever else I need. As for getting experience, who's to say I can't do that as well? Just because I have training underway doesn't mean I'll be sat in the station for the next two weeks. I fail to see your arguement here. You're saying that it's pointless to buy lots of ISK (so as to boost training and give a decent working capital) because it robs the player of in-game experience. But this method does both. For a new player wanting to progress in the game, this has to be the fastest way. Signature removed for not being EVE related. Zymurgist
Jennifer Starling	Posted - 2010.10.28 11:25:00 - [126] Originally by: Lady Spank Jennifer and your stupid alt, most people get their learning skills out of the way in the first month (or two if they aren't bothered about min/maxing). He's not my alt (actually I'm the alt) and indeed, you can't get learning skils out of the way within a month. Quote: +5 implants are nice and all but really equating max learning and a small amount of isk as being a real advantage then you are truly clueless. Well it depends on what you want. My pourpose is to be able to fly the ships I want within a reasonable timeframe. And sadly, learning is EVE is extremely slow. Still, having 6 million more SP at the end of the year and being able to fly far more ships and being able to fit them better is worth it imo. I don't say it's universal truth for everyone but for me that is the case. Quote: 4b is laughable as a yardstick for any sort of 'achievement'. I know it's not a lot but it's nice to start off with. For a beginner it's a lot of money. Once you're into the game for a while ISK isn't a bottleneck anymore, of course. Quote: With your attitude you will likely never want to leave your +5 clone and it will prevent you from engaging in any risky activity. Perhaps not as much but that's valid for alomost any newb with implants, most of them have grinded missions or mined in order to get +3 implants and they don't want to risk those either. So I don't see what's the big problem or difference. Even if you don't do it for ISK, you can still want to do missions just to try things out and find ways to fit your ship. You can still learn how to scan things down. Next to that, there's always jump clones as I mentioned before so you can even do PvP. So I don't see how this should annoy you more than any other average newb.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.10.28 11:28:00 - [127] Originally by: WMunny For a new player wanting to progress in the game, this has to be the fastest way. Only for a very narrow view of "progression." ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
WMunny	Posted - 2010.10.28 11:31:00 - [128] Edited by: WMunny on 28/10/2010 11:33:49 You think it's cheating? Pretty soon I reckon this will be the standard way to enter the game. After 1 month the player will have maxed out learning and a sizeable working capital. Makes all the piddly mining jobs look pointless. Signature removed for not being EVE related. Zymurgist
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.10.28 11:35:00 - [129] Originally by: WMunny Pretty soon I reckon this will be the standard way to enter the game. After 1 month the player will have maxed out learning and a sizeable working capital. Makes all the piddly mining jobs look pointless. In time you'll understand why this would be disastrous. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
WMunny	Posted - 2010.10.28 11:37:00 - [130] You're suggesting that strip mining is the way to big bucks? Why can I not do that in the future? Signature removed for not being EVE related. Zymurgist
Anne Arqui Minmatar Diamonds in the Rough Enterprises	Posted - 2010.10.28 11:41:00 - [131] What a way to welcome a new player who has done some investigations into the matter and came up with some plan. Why not leave him be and find out for himself?
WMunny	Posted - 2010.10.28 11:44:00 - [132] Edited by: WMunny on 28/10/2010 11:46:09 I don't mind the criticism. People are generally resistant to new ideas. As it happens, what I'm doing is probably nothing new. I bet most Alt characters on here have been given a "helping hand" before even leaving their stations. What is abnormal is for an outsider to do the same, but using real cash. The point of this thread was to suggest that the value of ISK is very low in terms of PLEX. Signature removed for not being EVE related. Zymurgist
Sissy Fuzz Amarr Sissy Fuzz Communications	Posted - 2010.10.28 11:49:00 - [133] Originally by: Lady Spank Haha, GTFO and get a clue before shiptoasting about things you don't understand noob. If I see you in space I'm blowing up your worthless ISK. Hahaha... look at the 2009 char speaking. Why don't you GTFO of the forums all together?
Lady Spank Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2010.10.28 11:56:00 - [134] OK ~_~
Brian Ballsack	Posted - 2010.10.28 12:05:00 - [135] Dont bother arguing with him, he wont last long anyway, 5 pages now and he still thinks a large amount of ISK will give him an advantage lol.
Mike TheMiner	Posted - 2010.10.28 12:09:00 - [136] Originally by: WMunny Really? Or is mining for 40 hours for 500M stupid, when 20Euros (earned in an hour or two in real life) does the same thing? Now tell me who is stupid? Its a game you ****** and the people that mine for ISK dont just do it for the ISK they do it because they enjoy it, not eveyone plays just to accumluate ISK.
WMunny	Posted - 2010.10.28 12:17:00 - [137] Originally by: Mike TheMiner Its a game you ****** and the people that mine for ISK dont just do it for the ISK they do it because they enjoy it, not eveyone plays just to accumluate ISK. Really? Would you mine if it paid zero ISK? Signature removed for not being EVE related. Zymurgist
My Postman	Posted - 2010.10.28 12:17:00 - [138] Can i sum it up for you guys? OP was feeded with a golden spoon, and thinks after having 2b he means something to eve-community, and we will continue the feeding. After reading his (moved) thread in MD i have to admit, that Spank is right, for the second time. And OP has already one skill you cannot buy with RL money: Forum w*oring.
Lady Spank Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2010.10.28 12:26:00 - [139] Originally by: My Postman Can i sum it up for you guys? OP was feeded with a golden spoon, and thinks after having 2b he means something to eve-community, and we will continue the feeding. After reading his (moved) thread in MD i have to admit, that Spank is right, for the second time. And OP has already one skill you cannot buy with RL money: Forum woring. I'm not just argumentative for the sake of it. This one is too blind to guide towards the light and I am done now ~_~*
DeBingJos Minmatar Ethically Questionable	Posted - 2010.10.28 12:28:00 - [140] I started in august 2009 and I only have learning at V and all the other learning skills at IV. Ik only have cheap +3 implants but I enjoy the game. There is no need to max out training at all. Skillpoints don't matter that much and in the beginning most skills take a few hours anyway. Wy are you focusing that much on learning speed. Play the game! And no, you don't need 2Bil as a new player. Having fun in this game does not depend on SP or isk. It depends on initiative, creativity and social skills. Anyway, my 0.02 cents. I just think you are wasting rl money.
Florio Miniature Giant Space Hamsters	Posted - 2010.10.28 12:37:00 - [141] Edited by: Florio on 28/10/2010 12:38:58 Originally by: DeBingJos Having fun in this game does not depend on SP or isk. It depends on initiative, creativity and social skills. This. Plus you forgot Balls.
WMunny	Posted - 2010.10.28 12:39:00 - [142] Are you saying I can't have fun with a character maxed out on Learning plus 4BN in the bank? Signature removed for not being EVE related. Zymurgist
Mike TheMiner	Posted - 2010.10.28 12:49:00 - [143] Originally by: WMunny Originally by: Mike TheMiner Its a game you ****** and the people that mine for ISK dont just do it for the ISK they do it because they enjoy it, not eveyone plays just to accumluate ISK. Really? Would you mine if it paid zero ISK? Not me no, But ALOT of players would, as i said before its a game, people play becuase they enjoy it.
Jennifer Starling	Posted - 2010.10.28 12:53:00 - [144] Originally by: WMunny Are you saying I can't have fun with a character maxed out on Learning plus 4BN in the bank? I guess so. No that there isn't 1,000s of plex from other players (among them probably quite a few new players) for sale atm but in your case it's bad, apparently. They also think that all the miners simply love what they're doing and that you miss the opportunity to have extatic mining experiences because you think they do it for the ISK instead of the trance producing state that staring at mining lasers for 15 minutes produces. And of course there¦s no macro miners becase mining is incredibly boring. On top of that they think you¦re not going to do anything in the game for they have the idea that you think the game is about ISK. They choose to ignore the fact that you said that for the time being you¦ll only train learning skills to 4/3 with +5s and that you¦re already doing missions, tutorials and epic arcs and even plan to do pvp with help from jump clones. Even if there¦s nothing wrong with your story they¦ll invent something. Better don¦t bother.
Mrs Useless	Posted - 2010.10.28 12:57:00 - [145] After 4 pages of obscurity it seems the OP was just trying to find out whether he should spend more RL money on plex. To my mind you're just sinking more RL money per month into the game than just the subscription costs. This is no different really from players paying for multiple accounts per month. They essentially sink more money into the game (RL or ISK). The the question you should ask yourself is are you getting value for money for whatever you put in. If you're so stinking rich in RL that it doesn't really matter then that's fine it's up to you. Most people hear have other RL things to spend money on. Now the thing is you're presumably new and you may just get bored and quit after a few more weeks. Don't say you won't because you just don't know. In which case you've just spent a fair bit in RL money for something you no longer want. It's a bit like signing up to a gym membership and then never using it I suppose except you've paid for it all up front. You CAN have fun with 4 bil. If your attitude is to buy more PLEX to replace your losses and more yourself forwards then that's up to you. Just don't imagine that you're anything special.
heheheh Phoenix Club	Posted - 2010.10.28 13:01:00 - [146] Originally by: WMunny Are you saying I can't have fun with a character maxed out on Learning plus 4BN in the bank? If you have fun playing in a crappy frig with crappy fittings then yes you can, also you will enjoy it if your into sitting in stations playing 0.01 ISK games, its each to his own.
DeBingJos Minmatar Ethically Questionable	Posted - 2010.10.28 13:04:00 - [147] Originally by: WMunny Are you saying I can't have fun with a character maxed out on Learning plus 4BN in the bank? Yes you can, but I'm just saying you can also have fun with a not so rich character not maxed out on learning skills and that this will cost you a lot less real life money.
Jennifer Starling	Posted - 2010.10.28 13:12:00 - [148] Originally by: heheheh Originally by: WMunny Are you saying I can't have fun with a character maxed out on Learning plus 4BN in the bank? If you have fun playing in a crappy frig with crappy fittings then yes you can, also you will enjoy it if your into sitting in stations playing 0.01 ISK games, its each to his own. That¦s why I think it¦s better to buy a character with some decent SP than save the ISK for later. Skilltraining is the bottleneck in this game, not ISK. With a 10 million SP character you can actually fly and fit decent ships and earn back the ISK you invested in it. Without the silly learning skills this choice would be non-existant and we could just start off learning useful ship and fitting skills instead of being torn between short term and long term goals. Just my opinion ofc.
WMunny	Posted - 2010.10.28 16:54:00 - [149] Edited by: WMunny on 28/10/2010 16:58:36 I don;t mind so much the training, but quite simply I will have to turn the character off for two weeks whilst it trains up to a decent standard. Then I will continue. I will still fly some emissions, etc, but the training is definitely the bottleneck. Signature removed for not being EVE related. Zymurgist
Buck Marui Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2010.10.28 17:08:00 - [150] For me EVE is about making ISK and then spending that ISK to better my character and progress through the game... It's about finding that 15 million module in a high sec exploration site, its about seeing that oppurtunity on the market nobody else has seen, feeling the consequences of losing assets and the joy of depriving others of theres. What you do when you buy ISK through out of game means is rob yourself of the emotion and enjoyement of playing a video game, you are essentially poorer in game and definately so out of game, of course there is still fun and enjoyement to be had with your new found imaginary money but its but a shadow of what It could have been. I could burn money in real life and enjoy the warmth it provides and then I could tell myself it was worth it, but I would be lying, at the end of the day this is a video game, if you spend real life money for something that doesnt really exist or has a very short lifespan (In-game ISK) then you only punish yourself, even if you can stand back and say it was worth it, it's not what you have that is important in EVE but what you can or may have. And so you may say these 500k trade runs are boring, mining this Veldspar is tedious, but they are not the goal of EVE they are a means to an end, they offer oppurtunity and they make that old ship that turns into a new ship all the more magnificent when it first loads onto your screen. To the OP, they will always be pixels, to me they are much more, I can't help but be saddened to think he robbed himself of that.
WMunny	Posted - 2010.10.28 17:20:00 - [151] Originally by: Buck Marui ...at the end of the day this is a video game, if you spend real life money for something that doesnt really exist or has a very short lifespan then you only punish yourself We all pay to play. How are you different to me? Signature removed for not being EVE related. Zymurgist
Sarton Wells	Posted - 2010.10.28 17:30:00 - [152] Paying for the service of playing the game and paying for in-game assets that were designed to be achieved by in-game means are two very different things. As many people have already said - you rob yourself from the experience of achieving those things. In the end it's your call how you play the game. But don't expect everyone to agree with you and don't ignore other people's advise.
WMunny	Posted - 2010.10.28 17:32:00 - [153] So the object of the game is to start with nothing and build from there? I wonder how many alt characters have done that. Signature removed for not being EVE related. Zymurgist
Buck Marui Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2010.10.28 17:33:00 - [154] Originally by: WMunny Originally by: Buck Marui ...at the end of the day this is a video game, if you spend real life money for something that doesnt really exist or has a very short lifespan then you only punish yourself We all pay to play. How are you different to me? You pay more for less is the obvious answer to that.
Troye Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2010.10.28 17:37:00 - [155] Originally by: WMunny So the object of the game is to start with nothing and build from there? I wonder how many alt characters have done that. Why would you want to start from nothing if you already have a main to help you on your way? An alt is an extenstion of your main character whom will have started froming nothing and built up. Look you don't realy know what your talking about, you can only know by playing the game so play it or just leave. You don't need to post about it. _______________________________________ [a cool picture here]
Sarton Wells	Posted - 2010.10.28 17:37:00 - [156] Originally by: WMunny So the object of the game is to start with nothing and build from there? I wonder how many alt characters have done that. What do alts have to do with this? You as a person will never be able to experience the "growing pains", or whatever you'd like to call them, if you just buy isk with RL money.
WMunny	Posted - 2010.10.28 17:41:00 - [157] Why do I want to experience "growing pains"? Signature removed for not being EVE related. Zymurgist
Buck Marui Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2010.10.28 17:44:00 - [158] Originally by: WMunny Why do I want to experience "growing pains"? Because its a necessaty to growing, again an obvious answer.
CanIHave YourStuff	Posted - 2010.10.28 17:46:00 - [159] You guys are all obviously ignorant. WMunny (AN ORIGINAL AND ENTIRELY NEW PLAYER) has paid a premium to avoid 'stupidly grinding', but is still running missions (grinding) and soon will be paying for the privilege of accruing skillpoints while not even enjoying the game, learning nothing in the process and negating any real point of providing an isk injection to the character in the first place. He will also have overtrained his learning skills and will likely quit the game within the three years it will take to see any real returns on them. He will have 6m more skillpoints in his first year but his first few months of gameplay will have been wasted doing nothing apart from rubbing himself whenever he looks at his wallet. Pure genius if you ask me. I think we can all learn a lesson from this.
Creepy CousinRoger	Posted - 2010.10.28 17:47:00 - [160] Something tells me the OP will fail at all he tries in Eve
WMunny	Posted - 2010.10.28 17:47:00 - [161] I think you are saying that I'm missing out because I'm not playing the game like you do. You have a very narrow view of the world. Signature removed for not being EVE related. Zymurgist
Ghoest	Posted - 2010.10.28 17:55:00 - [162] LOLz at OP. Wherever you went - Here you are.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.10.28 17:56:00 - [163] Originally by: WMunny Are you saying I can't have fun with a character maxed out on Learning plus 4BN in the bank? We're saying that neither of those are factors in having fun. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Buck Marui Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2010.10.28 18:01:00 - [164] Originally by: WMunny I think you are saying that I'm missing out because I'm not playing the game like you do. You have a very narrow view of the world. This is partly true, but I am in fact saying you are missing out because you robbed yourself of the purpose of the game. I am not however saying that my way of playing the game is the only way to play the game as your statement suggests.
Buck Marui Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2010.10.28 18:15:00 - [165] And with the above, possibly overly poetic statement I am bowing out of this thread, EVE awaits and I'm so poor. as they say "A fool and his money are soon parted" I do genuinly hope you enjoy the game OP, youve certainly paid for it.
WMunny	Posted - 2010.10.28 18:21:00 - [166] I think people are jealous because I've fast-tracked my entrance into the game. I can understand that as it's the only way they can justify a wasted 12 months. Signature removed for not being EVE related. Zymurgist
Sarton Wells	Posted - 2010.10.28 18:25:00 - [167] Originally by: WMunny I think people are jealous because I've fast-tracked my entrance into the game. I can understand that as it's the only way they can justify a wasted 12 months. Yes. You found us out. Now go back to playing (or not playing) the game.
CanIHave YourStuff	Posted - 2010.10.28 18:28:00 - [168] I'm jealous that you can somehow run missions without gaining any sec status or standings
Biirk	Posted - 2010.10.28 19:04:00 - [169] Edited by: Biirk on 28/10/2010 19:10:02 Edited by: Biirk on 28/10/2010 19:06:36 I think it is justifiable to buy implants as a way to 'catch up', and be competitive with established players. What I did, and recomend to players who dont buy ISK, is to train the learning skills along with usefull ones. Train lev 1 learning for a stat you need to train some skill you want. Then train that skill to lev 1. In an hour you have the skill. maby it was 3 mins slower than if you trained all learning skills to 5 and got lev 5 implants first. But,,, you get it Much Sooner! I traind stuff I wanted to low levels first. including the learning skills. except for when I wanted some particular level of something for something. I think its too nit picky to wait a month or more to save 2% off the training of Low lev skills. I actually played the first month and think the hours I wasted training overall were worth it. - - - But a starting player that wants to 'play'. If they can afford it, and know they want the game. And have a jump clone to wear when they want to get killed.And can restrain themselves from just buying anything they want with plex <shrug> I would just about recomend getting some implants at the start. However having too much ISK can spoil alot of fun. If you played the tutorials and starting missions without plex ISK. Then you know the joy of winning your first Condor, or whatever it was in your case. I once played Daggerfall. I was 'WooHoo!!! I found a Tome!!!!! (7k$s) Then I hacked up a million$ note. And those tomes were worthless. No 'Fun' any more. Its a matter of personal make up, what makes you happy. But I think too much 'Free' ISK could spoil some fun. I do,, 'worry' about spending my time clicking my freaking planet junk. I do wonder if it might be a good idea to get a plex and buy another strategic cruiser so I can actually fly the dang thing (into low sec) I actually painstakingly saved up for. But I do actually have 'fun' when the market for the junk im making goes up. - - - I think its *worse* in Zimbabwe Currency exchange rates aside. than it is in Eve. Tho it is pretty dang bad here. It maby insensitive to compare a cartoon to real misery. but "being oppressed because of the colour of your skin/,,," Whatever the problem is there it aint white people. _______ All Our Base Are Belong To Them
Creepy CousinRoger	Posted - 2010.10.28 19:06:00 - [170] Originally by: WMunny I think people are jealous because I've fast-tracked my entrance into the game. I can understand that as it's the only way they can justify a wasted 12 months. No. That statement just confirms you are an idiot who will fail miserably.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.10.28 19:13:00 - [171] Originally by: WMunny I think people are jealous because I've fast-tracked my entrance into the game. I can understand that as it's the only way they can justify a wasted 12 months. So you still don't get it: you haven't really done anything special except setting yourself up for a bigger fall than most. You've fast-tracked the thing that makes the least difference and in doing so, quite possibly made your progression slower than it would otherwise be. The one trend I've seen with people who have chosen the same path as you is that they don't last longà ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Shiho Weitong Caldari Koa Mai Hoku	Posted - 2010.10.28 19:31:00 - [172] Originally by: CanIHave YourStuff I'm jealous that you can somehow run missions without gaining any sec status or standings And that's the money-shot to put down this alt-troll. So to you good sir. /thread ----------- Why is it called common sense, when it's clearly very rare. I had a mind once, but alas, I seem to have forgotten where I left it. Originally by: Tchell Dahhn You win, and thank you.
Jennifer Starling	Posted - 2010.10.28 20:25:00 - [173] Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 28/10/2010 20:33:50 The amount of patronizing and arrogance towards a new player in this thread is really disgusting. It's really embarrassing. I'm very glad it's by no means representative for the in-game playerbase.
CanIHave YourStuff	Posted - 2010.10.28 20:33:00 - [174] Originally by: Jennifer Starling The amount of dumb trolling and ignorance towards the playerbase in this thread is really disgusting. I'm very glad it's by no means representative of actual newcomers.
Chris Bailey	Posted - 2010.10.28 21:00:00 - [175] You got spanked
Barkaial Starfinder Minmatar The Kairos Syndicate Transmission Lost	Posted - 2010.10.28 21:31:00 - [176] trolled please everyone, move along.
Yelan Zhou Amarr Ba.theen Aljannatal Asaakitah	Posted - 2010.10.28 23:18:00 - [177] Originally by: Buck Marui For me EVE is about making ISK and then spending that ISK to better my character and progress through the game... It's about finding that 15 million module in a high sec exploration site, its about seeing that oppurtunity on the market nobody else has seen, feeling the consequences of losing assets and the joy of depriving others of theres. What you do when you buy ISK through out of game means is rob yourself of the emotion and enjoyement of playing a video game, you are essentially poorer in game and definately so out of game, of course there is still fun and enjoyement to be had with your new found imaginary money but its but a shadow of what It could have been. I could burn money in real life and enjoy the warmth it provides and then I could tell myself it was worth it, but I would be lying, at the end of the day this is a video game, if you spend real life money for something that doesnt really exist or has a very short lifespan (In-game ISK) then you only punish yourself, even if you can stand back and say it was worth it, it's not what you have that is important in EVE but what you can or may have. And so you may say these 500k trade runs are boring, mining this Veldspar is tedious, but they are not the goal of EVE they are a means to an end, they offer oppurtunity and they make that old ship that turns into a new ship all the more magnificent when it first loads onto your screen. To the OP, they will always be pixels, to me they are much more, I can't help but be saddened to think he robbed himself of that. Well stated. I was stinking rich after my first year, so rich that 4 billions are peanuts to me. That said I still have my noob Tormentor. I was mining with that little in my noob system and flew around looking for good deals. Hell I even tried my first missions with it (had to warp out) So many memories with a "worthless" ship which I would not even trade against a Carrier. (would been tempted tho)
My Postman	Posted - 2010.10.29 09:34:00 - [178] I¦ll bet the OP will love the game even more when (if) it goes microtransactions. And after all angry vets have emorage-quitted, he will be the one with most (bought) skillpoints. And he still will fail, cause you can¦t buy "player experiance".
Jose Black	Posted - 2010.10.29 16:24:00 - [179] Originally by: WMunny So the object of the game is to start with nothing and build from there? I wonder how many alt characters have done that. I did exactly that, and also with a couple of trial accounts. Always had a lot of fun. Then again what's fun to me might not be for you.
Major Alpha	Posted - 2010.10.29 23:58:00 - [180] Originally by: WMunny In my limited experience of this game (just a couple of weeks), I've come to the conclusion that New Eden is akin to Zimbabwe with lawlessness and disorder, and ISK is akin to Zimbabwean Dollars - worthless. LOL So i take t your out then ? Can I Haz your stuffz :)
Ascendic Lyonesse. Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2010.10.30 04:06:00 - [181] Please stop resurrecting this idiots threads kthxbye
Biirk	Posted - 2010.11.02 15:23:00 - [182] Mua Ha Haa! Ima Resurrecting this idiots threads I think Eden is like, Um,, Not Australia,, Not New Orleans. New York City? [shrug] (close tho to those) Like No place on Earth. _______ All Our Base Are Belong To Them
LoRDa RaMOs Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.11.02 16:19:00 - [183] Dude, if Zimbabwe had Spaceships, Chribba and few PVP hotshots, i would want to go there Forget AIDS, they haz spaceshipz.! Originally by: CCP HTFU
KaemosFZ Caldari The Green Cross	Posted - 2010.11.02 20:14:00 - [184] cattle cost 58 dollars in zimbabwe?
Annie Anomie Shadows Of The Federation	Posted - 2010.11.02 20:51:00 - [185] Originally by: WMunny In my limited experience of this game (just a couple of weeks), I've come to the conclusion that New Eden is akin to Zimbabwe with lawlessness and disorder, and ISK is akin to Zimbabwean Dollars - worthless. Isn't it great?

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