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Aessoroz	Posted - 2010.10.29 01:20:00 - [1] Edited by: Aessoroz on 29/10/2010 01:26:35 Edited by: Aessoroz on 29/10/2010 01:21:41 http://kb.pleaseignore.com/?a=system_detail&sys_id=2560 Proof that CCP does nothing about macros. (Because people really run around in industrials in noob corps in massive quantities in a low sec system)
Running missions	Posted - 2010.10.29 01:23:00 - [2] when u camp that gate you camp
Ejit Amarr The Ascension	Posted - 2010.10.29 02:41:00 - [3] And they nearly all carry exotic dancers, or holoreels. Pretty conclusive evidence if you ask me. You'd think these macro's would be clever enough to avoid lo sec by now.
Emperor Cheney Celebrity Sex Tape	Posted - 2010.10.29 03:03:00 - [4] Ingunn has 4 level 20 courier agents. It's always full of macros - there just aren't enough bored pirates to keep them unprofitable, I guess. Whenever I want to burn some sec status, I go there and kill a few. But, I like to remain in positive sec status, so these expeditions are rare. I've considered making an alt and going full -10 on it just to kill these buggers myself, but that would take too much skill training time off my main. But yeah, Ingunn is the place if you want to kill some cheaters. In before they could totally be legit players OMG how can you say macros, macros don't exist in EVE
BeanBagKing Terra Incognita Black Star Alliance	Posted - 2010.10.29 03:05:00 - [5] Nothing new, macros have been doing this for a while now, we found a run of them in Sotrenzur (0.3 system) about a year ago and killed 5 of them before moving on. The problem is the macros use warp to 0 scripts, because it's low sec and you have to deal with guns you can't use small, fast locking ships or bubbles to catch them, plus some carry a WCS or two. As you can see that doesn't make it impossible, only annoying. Combined with the low cost of haulers (you'll notices most of those bestowers weren't even fitted in the mid/high), and the benefits far outweigh the costs of running through lowsec. It would be nice to see CCP actively hunt down these guys
Professor Tarantula Hedion University	Posted - 2010.10.29 03:10:00 - [6] I'm equally skeptical of people who think everyone is using macros and those who think no one is. Actual players are fully capable of using cheap ships to run courier missions in lowsec, and word might have gotten out among a group of people that's a good place to do it. There's no way to be 100% sure either way. My Warmest Regards. Prof. Tarantula, Esq.
Emperor Cheney Celebrity Sex Tape	Posted - 2010.10.29 03:15:00 - [7] Originally by: Professor Tarantula I'm equally skeptical of people who think everyone is using macros and those who think no one is. Actual players are fully capable of using cheap ships to run courier missions in lowsec, and word might have gotten out among a group of people that's a good place to do it. There's no way to be 100% sure either way. hahaha Yeah, I'm sure a whole lot of 15 day old players with names that have lots of numbers in them all just decided to use identical ships in the same system using almost no fittings and not changing their behavior even if they get blown up repeatedly by the same GCC player at the same spot over and over. Or, could be macros. Who's to say?!
Professor Tarantula Hedion University	Posted - 2010.10.29 03:25:00 - [8] Originally by: Emperor Cheney Yeah, I'm sure a whole lot of 15 day old players with names that have lots of numbers in them With the exception of QQQ38 the names are pretty realistic. Quote: all just decided to use identical ships There's quite a variety of ships. Quote: almost no fittings They're running courier missions in lowsec. Not many fittings needed for that, and they probably expect to get blown up now and then and just lose any modules. Quote: and not changing their behavior even if they get blown up repeatedly by the same GCC player at the same spot over and over. I don't see the same people getting blown up over and over. All i'm saying is it's easy to jump to conclusions when you already think macros are lurking around every corner. Confirmation bias and all that. My Warmest Regards. Prof. Tarantula, Esq.
Emperor Cheney Celebrity Sex Tape	Posted - 2010.10.29 04:23:00 - [9] Originally by: Professor Tarantula Originally by: Emperor Cheney Yeah, I'm sure a whole lot of 15 day old players with names that have lots of numbers in them With the exception of QQQ38 the names are pretty realistic. We can disagree on how realistic a name lucy257 or whatever is, and all the rest. How about how they tend to be one or two month old players. Or why so many in the same system. Or why they all behave the same. I see you have no answer to any of that. Quote: There's quite a variety of ships. Bestower, Mammoth = variety? Quote: They're running courier missions in lowsec. Not many fittings needed for that, and they probably expect to get blown up now and then and just lose any modules. Have you ever known a human player who rolls with one or two cargo expanders fitted, and that's it? Like you said, this is lowsec. Might as well at least fit some tank a/o speed mods. Quote: I don't see the same people getting blown up over and over. Well, I've been in Ingunn, and I certainly have. It's ridiculous to not "jump to conclusions" when a given conclusion is 99.9999 percent likely. I mean, are you serious? Are you seriously saying these guys might not be macros? The sun might rise tomorrow, it might not. There's no sense jumping to conclusions!
Professor Tarantula Hedion University	Posted - 2010.10.29 04:33:00 - [10] Edited by: Professor Tarantula on 29/10/2010 04:35:35 I think my perspective comes from mining in this game for awhile, and having people like yourself conclude i was using macros on a daily basis, because i remained still while mining and didn't chat in local. If i hadn't been on the other side of things, and seen so many people be wrong, i too might easily jump to conclusions. My Warmest Regards. Prof. Tarantula, Esq.
Akira Kurosaw	Posted - 2010.10.29 05:08:00 - [11] haulers are dead ships anyway, why fit any thing unless necessary
Emperor Cheney Celebrity Sex Tape	Posted - 2010.10.29 05:45:00 - [12] Originally by: Professor Tarantula Edited by: Professor Tarantula on 29/10/2010 04:35:35 I think my perspective comes from mining in this game for awhile, and having people like yourself conclude i was using macros on a daily basis, because i remained still while mining and didn't chat in local. If i hadn't been on the other side of things, and seen so many people be wrong, i too might easily jump to conclusions. Sorry the people on forums hurt your feelings once, but before jumping to conclusions in the other (wrong) direction, go to the undock of Ingunn V - Moon 19 - Republic Justice Department and tell me those aren't macros.
Ovella	Posted - 2010.10.29 06:01:00 - [13] shrugs what did you expect? CCP stated few times that "unholy rage" never ended... if you, by chance, understood that differently than "we didn't have time to finish the job" now you know better
Ran Khanon Amarr Swords Horses and Heavy Metal	Posted - 2010.10.29 06:21:00 - [14] Well you could always dec. Some of them are not in an NPC corp. Like these guys. (Idreamcorp? I asleep? I afk? I macro? How insultingly obvious that name.) Or these. They might all hop to a noob corp though. V_V Recruiting!
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.10.29 08:29:00 - [15] Originally by: Aessoroz Edited by: Aessoroz on 29/10/2010 01:26:35 Edited by: Aessoroz on 29/10/2010 01:21:41 http://kb.pleaseignore.com/?a=system_detail&sys_id=2560 Proof that CCP does nothing about macros. (Because people really run around in industrials in noob corps in massive quantities in a low sec system) Ahh, good old Ingunn. The destination of choice for any pilot seeking that illustrious badge of honour: "-10.0" Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
Eyeama Spy	Posted - 2010.10.29 09:28:00 - [16] I understand that the next incursion expansion is designed to deal with macro bots....sancha incursions wont just appear in radom systems, they will be seeded by ccp in systems with the highest concentration of macros.
Lubomir Penev Sausages of Truth	Posted - 2010.10.29 10:12:00 - [17] Originally by: Emperor Cheney Ingunn has 4 level 20 courier agents. It's always full of macros - there just aren't enough bored pirates to keep them unprofitable, I guess. Whenever I want to burn some sec status, I go there and kill a few. But, I like to remain in positive sec status, so these expeditions are rare. I've considered making an alt and going full -10 on it just to kill these buggers myself, but that would take too much skill training time off my main. I have a Drake alt with 1.2M sp that is enough to one or two volley them and tank sentries a decent amount of time, pretty quick train.
Stygian Knight Blood Covenant Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2010.10.29 10:42:00 - [18] Ingunn have always been known as bonus level
Cone Filler	Posted - 2010.10.29 10:49:00 - [19] i visited that system many moons ago And if you camp their station long enough they will spawn battleships triple sensor boosting bs should make quick work of the macros Allthough i must add that after the last Unholy Rage the system was empty, go figure
Darod Zyree Gallente Zyree Holding	Posted - 2010.10.29 10:51:00 - [20] I dont think CCP needs more ban to proof this player, right? -Darod-
Bomberlocks Minmatar CTRL-Q	Posted - 2010.10.29 10:53:00 - [21] Originally by: Professor Tarantula I'm equally skeptical of people who think everyone is using macros and those who think no one is. Actual players are fully capable of using cheap ships to run courier missions in lowsec, and word might have gotten out among a group of people that's a good place to do it. There's no way to be 100% sure either way. Lawl.
Buga Buga Haita de lupi ROMANIAN-LEGION	Posted - 2010.10.29 10:54:00 - [22] Nerf botting, it causes lag1!!1 I'm a "Shoot me I suck" specialist.
HoneY pOt Amarr Eve Game Card Co	Posted - 2010.10.29 11:15:00 - [23] There have been botters and macros since this game was released, nothing has changed, i remember hearing about sophisticated scripts back in the early days of 03, that would do everything for you, It was and still is a major problem. Eve is unique in mmo's in that we have non-consensual pvp and as players we can do something about it, its not as much a problem as it is in pretty much all the other major pay to play mmo's where they only have conselsual pvp.
Corozan Aspinall Party Time Inc.	Posted - 2010.10.29 11:21:00 - [24] Quit whining start shooting. If you covet your sec status buy a neg sec character for a couple of bill. Sheesh.
Companion Trollin You are going too fast	Posted - 2010.10.29 11:23:00 - [25] Get them to faction fit their haulers and I'll be impressed. ♥ Originally by: CCP Shadow Off-topic posts dealing with sexual orientation have been removed. Please keep this discussion on-topic. Thanks. -- Shadow
Vendelle	Posted - 2010.10.29 11:36:00 - [26] I petitioned this very thing of macro haulers in Amarr low sec areas. CCP replied that they will look into it. This was over a month ago. Hmmm.
Jack Dant Minmatar The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre	Posted - 2010.10.29 11:39:00 - [27] Originally by: Professor Tarantula Originally by: Emperor Cheney Yeah, I'm sure a whole lot of 15 day old players with names that have lots of numbers in them With the exception of QQQ38 the names are pretty realistic. For a while last year I traded in magnates near one of these courier mission hubs. Every couple days, a bunch of day-old characters would buy magnates all at once. And I mean, like 10 sold within 3 minutes of each other. These characters all had "realistic" names. But when you looked at them together, it was obvious they were made from the same generator. One day it would all be "Firstname Lastname", the next "FirstnameNUMBER", etc, etc. Randomly generating realistic names is very easy.
Myyona Minmatar Ataraxia Pharmacies	Posted - 2010.10.29 11:40:00 - [28] Edited by: Myyona on 29/10/2010 11:41:27 Originally by: Professor Tarantula If i hadn't been on the other side of things, and seen so many people be wrong, i too might easily jump to conclusions. It sure is, Prof. T, but you should come to the area and see for yourself. While not the same people by character name this kind of (seemingly suicidal) behavior in these particular systems has been going on for years. --- Myyona CEO, Ataraxia Pharmacies ATAP Humanitarian aid effort
Kathryn Dougans Amarr	Posted - 2010.10.29 11:44:00 - [29] Ingunn, hmm. Yes. Stakhanov and Metafarmers used to go there a couple years back, thin out the numbers. I helped out once or twice, clearing wrecks and cans off the grid. Managed to drop local by a hundred or so for a couple weeks till they got tired of it, or the "mercenaries" hired by the farming outfits got too aggressive. I'd be interested in obtaining the cargoes though. Things like the "large group of cattle", and "Crates of Harroule Dryweed". Being a single mother is quite hard.
adriaans Amarr Ankaa.	Posted - 2010.10.29 14:32:00 - [30] Until they actually start dropping something besides t1 cargo expanders which doesn't even cover ammo cost, 99.9% of people simply ignore them, and those who do kill them will find themselves rather quickly hunted by others, as you're likely to be dropping t2 mods. --signature-- F.CS boost: Here Vid: Link
Brian Ballsack	Posted - 2010.10.29 14:58:00 - [31] Killing them has no effect they are back within a few minutes.
flakeys DRAMA Inc Sev3rance	Posted - 2010.10.29 15:11:00 - [32] Originally by: Brian Ballsack Killing them has no effect they are back within a few minutes. This tbh waste of ammo , time and specially sec stat.Spend about 2 days doing this well over 2 years ago and finally got bored of it and had -9.9 then.
Ktarr Rakillo Amarr	Posted - 2010.10.30 11:33:00 - [33] Edited by: Ktarr Rakillo on 30/10/2010 11:37:39 Not so long ago we came across the same thing, macro'ers warping out of a station with insta bm's.. so i used a cloaky and just headed the way the macro'ers were going, at around 700km from station i could see them landing and turning for a new course. So snook upto 5km of the landing spot, BM'd it.. shot back to station for something with a bit more punch and then spent the next 2 hours in a duck shoot (30+ kills easily) by just sitting there like a spider in a web and nabbed every last 1 of them. I mean anyone can die once, but when you kill the same person at the same BM 5 times in an hour with the same ship and same setup and i think the same cargo even, you have to ask yourself just how many bots are out there.
Brian Ballsack	Posted - 2010.10.30 12:12:00 - [34] The sad thing is, no matter how obvious, there is now way to prove it 100%. :(
Hauling Hal	Posted - 2010.10.30 15:52:00 - [35] Originally by: Ktarr Rakillo Edited by: Ktarr Rakillo on 30/10/2010 11:37:39 Not so long ago we came across the same thing, macro'ers warping out of a station with insta bm's.. so i used a cloaky and just headed the way the macro'ers were going, at around 700km from station i could see them landing and turning for a new course. So snook upto 5km of the landing spot, BM'd it.. shot back to station for something with a bit more punch and then spent the next 2 hours in a duck shoot (30+ kills easily) by just sitting there like a spider in a web and nabbed every last 1 of them. I mean anyone can die once, but when you kill the same person at the same BM 5 times in an hour with the same ship and same setup and i think the same cargo even, you have to ask yourself just how many bots are out there. So the macro bought a new ship and refitted it as well?
Gravemind GER Caldari Swords OF TYR Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.10.30 19:02:00 - [36] Originally by: Ejit And they nearly all carry exotic dancers, or holoreels. Pretty conclusive evidence if you ask me. You'd think these macro's would be clever enough to avoid lo sec by now. they are all working for chribba, he needs his daily 5628 exotic dancers and **** holoreel tapes to maintain all 4 titans.
Eternal Noob	Posted - 2010.10.30 19:35:00 - [37] How is a macro franchise such as this profitable at all? Transporting NPC goods, while losing occasional haulers? I mean I looked at hauling garbage, dancers, livestock and stuff, and did the math and figured that loading an entire large hauler of those goods with no loss would have been a complete waste of time. Maybe a 24/7 operation is a different story, but with the occasional loss of a hauler I can't believe a macro operation sees any real capital investment in this as "worth it."
Emperor Cheney Celebrity Sex Tape	Posted - 2010.10.30 20:02:00 - [38] Originally by: Hauling Hal Originally by: Ktarr Rakillo Edited by: Ktarr Rakillo on 30/10/2010 11:37:39 Not so long ago we came across the same thing, macro'ers warping out of a station with insta bm's.. so i used a cloaky and just headed the way the macro'ers were going, at around 700km from station i could see them landing and turning for a new course. So snook upto 5km of the landing spot, BM'd it.. shot back to station for something with a bit more punch and then spent the next 2 hours in a duck shoot (30+ kills easily) by just sitting there like a spider in a web and nabbed every last 1 of them. I mean anyone can die once, but when you kill the same person at the same BM 5 times in an hour with the same ship and same setup and i think the same cargo even, you have to ask yourself just how many bots are out there. So the macro bought a new ship and refitted it as well? hauling hal cracked the case. it's totally legit. we can all go home now. there's no way these things are macros, because there is no way a macro could know when it's ship blows up and reship. no way! once again, the eve online forums PROVE macros do not exist! i'm heading out to ingunn now to protect all those earnest new players from piracy. and you know, maybe, if they ever decide to speak in local or respond to a chat request or alter their behavior whatsoever, maybe just maybe i'll make some new friends.
Aloe Cloveris The Greater Goon	Posted - 2010.10.30 20:07:00 - [39] Edited by: Aloe Cloveris on 30/10/2010 20:13:51 Originally by: Eternal Noob How is a macro franchise such as this profitable at all? Transporting NPC goods, while losing occasional haulers? I mean I looked at hauling garbage, dancers, livestock and stuff, and did the math and figured that loading an entire large hauler of those goods with no loss would have been a complete waste of time. Maybe a 24/7 operation is a different story, but with the occasional loss of a hauler I can't believe a macro operation sees any real capital investment in this as "worth it." http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/Ingunn/agents Creodron provides research agents. Research agents provide datacores. Datacores literally provide free income for life. hth e: buggered hyperlink
Emperor Cheney Celebrity Sex Tape	Posted - 2010.10.30 20:18:00 - [40] Originally by: Aloe Cloveris Edited by: Aloe Cloveris on 30/10/2010 20:13:51 Originally by: Eternal Noob How is a macro franchise such as this profitable at all? Transporting NPC goods, while losing occasional haulers? I mean I looked at hauling garbage, dancers, livestock and stuff, and did the math and figured that loading an entire large hauler of those goods with no loss would have been a complete waste of time. Maybe a 24/7 operation is a different story, but with the occasional loss of a hauler I can't believe a macro operation sees any real capital investment in this as "worth it." http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/Ingunn/agents Creodron provides research agents. Research agents provide datacores. Datacores literally provide free income for life. hth e: buggered hyperlink Weirdly, though, I've only ever seen them at Republic Justice. Also, CCP changed the ghost research thing with datacores.
Aloe Cloveris The Greater Goon	Posted - 2010.10.30 20:35:00 - [41] Originally by: Emperor Cheney Weirdly, though, I've only ever seen them at Republic Justice. Also, CCP changed the ghost research thing with datacores. Oh. I dunno, then. I figured they'd macro-grind the standings for datacores, then transfer them to a paid account to provide a main with one or two alt haulers/datacore farmers. If they're grinding Republic Justice, then I really have no idea what their point is.
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.10.31 00:21:00 - [42] Originally by: Hauling Hal Originally by: Ktarr Rakillo Edited by: Ktarr Rakillo on 30/10/2010 11:37:39 Not so long ago we came across the same thing, macro'ers warping out of a station with insta bm's.. so i used a cloaky and just headed the way the macro'ers were going, at around 700km from station i could see them landing and turning for a new course. So snook upto 5km of the landing spot, BM'd it.. shot back to station for something with a bit more punch and then spent the next 2 hours in a duck shoot (30+ kills easily) by just sitting there like a spider in a web and nabbed every last 1 of them. I mean anyone can die once, but when you kill the same person at the same BM 5 times in an hour with the same ship and same setup and i think the same cargo even, you have to ask yourself just how many bots are out there. So the macro bought a new ship and refitted it as well? Yeah it would be literally impossible to create a macro that boarded a new ship Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.10.31 00:27:00 - [43] Edited by: Malcanis on 31/10/2010 00:29:55 Originally by: Eternal Noob How is a macro franchise such as this profitable at all? Transporting NPC goods, while losing occasional haulers? I mean I looked at hauling garbage, dancers, livestock and stuff, and did the math and figured that loading an entire large hauler of those goods with no loss would have been a complete waste of time. Maybe a 24/7 operation is a different story, but with the occasional loss of a hauler I can't believe a macro operation sees any real capital investment in this as "worth it." Macro up a couple hundred thousand LP per day from 4 max-standing L4 Q20 courier agents in a single station. You get a suprising amount of LP for doing this compared to hi-sec, the missions only take a few minutes each, and you can do 4 at a time. Once a week, cash in, say, a million LP @ ~1000ISK profit per LP, buy new haulers/T1 fittings, restock and reset macro Once per month, buy gamecard: -90M from weekly next income. Enjoy ~900M ISK net weekly income per account. Repeat. Next up: why LP values are creeping down, down down. To fix this, require courier missions to have a 10-20 mill deposit, so every time someone kills a macro hauler and makes it fail a mission, it costs the macro 10-20 mill. Or 40-80M if they're doing 4 at once. This fix was suggested something like 3 years ago, and would take a trivial amount of developer time to enable. Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
Eternal Noob	Posted - 2010.10.31 00:37:00 - [44] That's another thing. You say macro enterprises just decided to get into this thing now too. But, they should have considered what a brazen move that stupid things like NPC good transport really is. Case in point is this thread. In all reality, the people here have clearly identified dedicated streams of ships that are macro-operated, and, whether CCP does any investigation in this (and they obviously should), the guys who started this for some reason to expose their operation to not only fellow miners and occasional ratters, but to everyone. Every single person in lo-sec, at all. They don't have to be in a belt or anything. Literally, all ratters, pirates, haulers, every single person in lo-sec can now just observe this obvious activity. It's almost like macros at this time just want to break down and confess, like a serial killer syndrome or something. They got too obvious on purpose. Nothing else would make any sense really.
Bomberlocks Minmatar CTRL-Q	Posted - 2010.10.31 00:40:00 - [45] Although I don't particularly care about Macros, the sad thing about them is that they heavily unbalance the economy. If you look at the ship in space statistic in the QEN, which is taken during downtime and is a good way of seeing who is online 23/7, you should note how many Bestower haulers and magnates there are. I would have thought that CCP could pretty easily do IP comparisons to see patterns on where the macros are being run from. But a fairly easy way to at least reduce the ease at which these trial accounts make isk, would just be to reduce the number and frequency of missions which they are allowed to do. Or at least that's what I think.I'm pretty sure CCP is very well aware of this but hasn't found a solution which they feel won't make the game less appealing to new subscribers.
Leksi Bar'zuk	Posted - 2010.10.31 04:04:00 - [46] Originally by: Stygian Knight Ingunn have always been known as bonus level This. Load up a few smartie ships on the gate and go for high score.
VicturusTeSaluto Metafarmers MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2010.10.31 05:22:00 - [47] how many in ingunn local currently?
Ximano	Posted - 2010.11.01 10:18:00 - [48] Yes it's true. Minmatar is full of macro courier mission macros again. 1 month old characters with over 8.00 faction standings in t1 haulers online 23/7..
Nazriel Caldari Monks of War DarkSide.	Posted - 2010.11.01 11:56:00 - [49] Originally by: Malcanis To fix this, require courier missions to have a 10-20 mill deposit, so every time someone kills a macro hauler and makes it fail a mission, it costs the macro 10-20 mill. Or 40-80M if they're doing 4 at once. This fix was suggested something like 3 years ago, and would take a trivial amount of developer time to enable. This. Though it won't help the courier-bot situation in general, just adds a little bit of incentive to shoot them down.
Ximano	Posted - 2010.11.01 15:14:00 - [50] Originally by: Nazriel Originally by: Malcanis To fix this, require courier missions to have a 10-20 mill deposit, so every time someone kills a macro hauler and makes it fail a mission, it costs the macro 10-20 mill. Or 40-80M if they're doing 4 at once. This fix was suggested something like 3 years ago, and would take a trivial amount of developer time to enable. This. Though it won't help the courier-bot situation in general, just adds a little bit of incentive to shoot them down. Now that's pretty damn nice solution.
Mike Voidstar	Posted - 2010.11.02 03:26:00 - [51] It's kind of too bad they cannot attach the mission to the cargo instead of the pilot. Imagine if you popped the hauler, picked up the cargo and it's info listed the destination. Then imagine if the deposit and mission reward went to anyone that delivered the cargo. We are talking Lo-Sec right? It's not like the folks living out there are too picky about who they contract their courier services with, they just want the stuff moved. If they were overly worried about it they would just use Interbus and not involve us Capsuleers at all. RP aside... I can't imagine the mouth-breathing baby eaters that inhabit lo-sec would balk at the senseless destruction of haulers full of juicy cargo they could turn in for LP, Cash, and standings.
Jack Gilligan Caldari 1st Cavalry Division Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2010.11.02 13:00:00 - [52] All you need to look at to know that CCP isn't the slightest bit serious about macros is on Dotlan at the impossible rate of NPC killing going on in certain 0.0 systems.
LOL CYBERKNIGHTS	Posted - 2010.11.02 13:07:00 - [53] The evidence is conclusive that Vector Aeon is a killmail ***** ^^
Kyoto Luyi Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2010.11.02 13:47:00 - [54] Originally by: Ran Khanon Well you could always dec. Some of them are not in an NPC corp. Like these guys. (Idreamcorp? I asleep? I afk? I macro? How insultingly obvious that name.) Or these. They might all hop to a noob corp though. V_V IDreamCorp Could be a fun target for a wardec - saves all that gate-gun tanking madness -- The views or opinions I express are solely my own and do not reflect those of my Corporation or Alliance.. Oh, and I'm NOT allowed in CAOD either :)
Xearal Minmatar SOL Industries Black Thorne Alliance	Posted - 2010.11.02 15:17:00 - [55] I reported a bunch of them in high sec myself months ago.. never heard anything from it again.. ohwell.. but it's things like this that make me just itch and create an alt, get up some camping skills and go duckhunting. And I don't even like pvp all that much! I just consider it a nescessary evil that ships need to be blown up so I can reap the benefits of destruction.
Captain Blart vipers bastards	Posted - 2010.11.02 15:25:00 - [56] I went on a small rampage around Ingunn killing haulers a couple of weeks ago, its really quite easy, i used a arty tempest with locking speed scripts. Their easy to insta pop. There is just the problem with sec status, but the above idea is a good one, making collateral 10-20m per mission. I even podded on and they returned about 30mins later lol 0/ Blart
BlondieBC Minmatar Galactic Exploration and Missions	Posted - 2010.11.02 16:25:00 - [57] Originally by: Malcanis Edited by: Malcanis on 31/10/2010 00:29:55 Originally by: Eternal Noob How is a macro franchise such as this profitable at all? Transporting NPC goods, while losing occasional haulers? I mean I looked at hauling garbage, dancers, livestock and stuff, and did the math and figured that loading an entire large hauler of those goods with no loss would have been a complete waste of time. Maybe a 24/7 operation is a different story, but with the occasional loss of a hauler I can't believe a macro operation sees any real capital investment in this as "worth it." Macro up a couple hundred thousand LP per day from 4 max-standing L4 Q20 courier agents in a single station. You get a suprising amount of LP for doing this compared to hi-sec, the missions only take a few minutes each, and you can do 4 at a time. Once a week, cash in, say, a million LP @ ~1000ISK profit per LP, buy new haulers/T1 fittings, restock and reset macro Once per month, buy gamecard: -90M from weekly next income. Enjoy ~900M ISK net weekly income per account. Repeat. Next up: why LP values are creeping down, down down. To fix this, require courier missions to have a 10-20 mill deposit, so every time someone kills a macro hauler and makes it fail a mission, it costs the macro 10-20 mill. Or 40-80M if they're doing 4 at once. This fix was suggested something like 3 years ago, and would take a trivial amount of developer time to enable. This is an excellent idea. I would suggest some small additions: Level 4 couriers are only runnable in transport ships. This makes the loss 70M automatically. I would have each ship haul say 20 million isks of something of value to the pirate, say minerals, moo goo, etc. This will provide the low sec pirate the equivalent of a low end faction spawn from a mission. I would make the courier pay a deposit of 2 times Jita prices. I would then let the automatic mission bounty increase to a level similar to a combat mission. These changes should make level 4's in low sec similar to combat missions in risks and rewards. I would leave high sec level 4 couriers the same, except to require transport ships.
Lubomir Penev Sausages of Truth	Posted - 2010.11.09 09:56:00 - [58] Originally by: Malcanis To fix this, require courier missions to have a 10-20 mill deposit, so every time someone kills a macro hauler and makes it fail a mission, it costs the macro 10-20 mill. Or 40-80M if they're doing 4 at once. This fix was suggested something like 3 years ago, and would take a trivial amount of developer time to enable. This doesn't make them worthwhile to kill. You cannot even sell the fake npc goods they drop. For a corporation to pay good money for something to be moved, the thing should be really valuable. I understand than to prevent even easier farming they have to transport unique items, but one ought to be able to repackage said unique items to get something marketable.

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