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Dr Chau Caldari	Posted - 2010.11.02 17:39:00 - [61] Originally by: Umega Edited by: Umega on 02/11/2010 03:55:53 Edited by: Umega on 02/11/2010 03:53:39 Want Math.. here's Math. Lets take a baseline number of 88 kin dps. About what a stationary DD will take from a kestrel using caldari bloodclaw at skillz V. The briefcase DD shields last at - 14.2 seconds. The eanm DD shields last at - 12.7 seconds. Ok.. obvious winner. Now the interesting part.. For this mathmatical bull***.. both reps turn on at 100% armor, shields down. Before calculating rep.. The briefcase DD armor lasts at - 28.5 seconds. The eanm DD armor lasts at - 32.8 seconds. Now take those and divide by 4.5, SAR time. 6.3 reps and 7.2 reps respectively. Multiple each by 101 and put those numbers back into the formula where armor number was now at zero. The briefcase DD armor lasts additional - 13 seconds. The eanm DD armor lasts additional - 16.9 seconds. These numbers continue.. obviously with DCU fit hitting structure sooner. Not only that.. with just using that first round of rep, the eanm fit provides nearly an additional 2 reps when comparing 41.5 seconds to 49.7. This number increases up until cap breaking. Roughly 18.8 reps. Your entire tank breaks down and you land in structure a whole lot sooner in a DCU fit as opposed to eanm fit. Quite a long time considering the dps that is being applied. Remember this is a rail DD ship that has power in dictating range.. spare me the higher dps numbers of other turret platforms. 88 dps is a solid number for this.. but what the hell.. lets double it, shall we? 176 kin dps being applied to a DD. DCU shields - 7.3 sec EANM shields - 6.4 sec DCU armor/before reps - 14.2 sec EANM armor/before reps - 16.1 sec Now like before we, we calculate how many reps are going to be issued when armor hits zero. 3.1 - 3.5... DCU armor/round 1 reps - 3.2 sec EANM armor/round 1 reps - 4.1 sec 24.5 vs 26.6 and yet another half a rep compounded into the eanm in just the first round of reps. As before.. the dcu fit armor tank breaks sooner. AND all this is compounded even further to an even greater margin when you implement Overheating the SAR. So when/if 176 dps is being applied to a rail DD.. the eanm will infact break the 30 second threshhold before even touching structure that you people love to flirt with(with overheat), while the DCU is dancing in structure, and through it.. sooner than the eanm fit even touches those numbers. THATS REALITY. But its cool tho.. if some of you enjoy flying around in roams with your structure bleeding here and there throughout the course of the roam, where as another fit could avoid such. Knock yourselfs out. Which is being more of an idiot? Now go and actually try both fits for yourself and see which you prefer.. I have, how many of you can honestly say yes too? ~leaves after taking a dump on EFT*~ You completely neglected including structure in that equation, which is 40% (or greater) of the EHP of either ship.
hjgjgfgfgsj	Posted - 2010.11.02 17:52:00 - [62] Edited by: hjgjgfgfgsj on 02/11/2010 17:54:10 I hope every single noob hops in a dramiel or daredevil so I can pwn him. Now all these dumbasses argueing over DC2 vs EANM,I would go DC2. It takes less cpu, it boosts shield armor and hull resists, it gives more ehp, it's just superior. Does it help a SAR2 out as much as an EANM? Yes! It elps more in truth, by allowing more repping after you've dipped into structure where an EANM would have taken maybe a second or too longer to get into hull but once it did it's game over. With the DC2 you can still pull out a win even if you're in hull. EDIT - True story.
Umega Solis Mensa	Posted - 2010.11.02 17:53:00 - [63] Still missing the underlying point.. it was right there.. Of course DCU equates to more hp. But in a rail DD.. when you are **ed, you are **ed. There is no.. 'ok, well I might got this'. No.. if some of you have actually flown the ship, which looks highly doubtful from some of the posts.. you'd get this very point.. The eanm fit does last in armor in the majority of fights you'll commit to and encounter in a rail DD while you are out n about. The DCU is more likely to bleed structure.. bleed structure again.. bleed some more. Not everyone has the chance to dock up and fix their bleeding structure out in null. So as time progress.. your ehp IS DROPPING and starting lower in the DCU fit vs the eanm fit. Seriously.. get off eft, play the game. Structure doesn't magically repair itself. Get off eft n the forums and try it. ---------------------------------------- -Treat the EVE Market like you're a pimp and it is your 'employee'.. freely fondle it as you wish and make it pay you for it-
hjgjgfgfgsj	Posted - 2010.11.02 18:05:00 - [64] Edited by: hjgjgfgfgsj on 02/11/2010 18:10:10 Ah, my fault for merely skimming through, I didn' know you were talking about 0.0 Still though finding a station shouldn't be that hard unless you aren't part of an alliance and are soloing deep in 0.0 for some reason (which if you are, I commend you) You were talking about 0.0 right? I mean if it's lowsec and you can't dock up... Anyway. The 'real' point is that a DC2 is superior to a EANM. Trust me, I fly punishers and vengeances and when tackling battlecruisers and stuff, you may dip into structure ON accident and it actually helps your rep more than an EANM would. Now, even without a rep, DC2 still adds more ehp than an EANM, plain and simple. Don't call me an eft warrior for stating the truth. Why use a module that gives less ehp for more cpu? Also, I agree if you're going to die in a rail DD you're going to die either way, USUALLY. But the DC2 will save you more than a EANM and a repper (IMO) will save you more than either.
Aerilis Gallente Percussive Diplomacy	Posted - 2010.11.02 18:30:00 - [65] Originally by: Umega Still missing the underlying point.. it was right there.. Of course DCU equates to more hp. But in a rail DD.. when you are **ed, you are **ed. There is no.. 'ok, well I might got this'. No.. if some of you have actually flown the ship, which looks highly doubtful from some of the posts.. you'd get this very point.. The eanm fit does last in armor in the majority of fights you'll commit to and encounter in a rail DD while you are out n about. The DCU is more likely to bleed structure.. bleed structure again.. bleed some more. Not everyone has the chance to dock up and fix their bleeding structure out in null. So as time progress.. your ehp IS DROPPING and starting lower in the DCU fit vs the eanm fit. Seriously.. get off eft, play the game. Structure doesn't magically repair itself. Get off eft n the forums and try it. In your previous situation of a kestrel doing 88 Kin DPS, the DCU fit enter structure an entire 4 seconds earlier than the EANM fit does... Just saying...
Umega Solis Mensa	Posted - 2010.11.02 19:29:00 - [66] Originally by: hjgjgfgfgsj Edited by: hjgjgfgfgsj on 02/11/2010 18:10:10 Ah, my fault for merely skimming through, I didn' know you were talking about 0.0 Still though finding a station shouldn't be that hard unless you aren't part of an alliance and are soloing deep in 0.0 for some reason (which if you are, I commend you) You were talking about 0.0 right? I mean if it's lowsec and you can't dock up... Anyway. The 'real' point is that a DC2 is superior to a EANM. Trust me, I fly punishers and vengeances and when tackling battlecruisers and stuff, you may dip into structure ON accident and it actually helps your rep more than an EANM would. Now, even without a rep, DC2 still adds more ehp than an EANM, plain and simple. Don't call me an eft warrior for stating the truth. Why use a module that gives less ehp for more cpu? Also, I agree if you're going to die in a rail DD you're going to die either way, USUALLY. But the DC2 will save you more than a EANM and a repper (IMO) will save you more than either. I 100% agree that briefcase is by far better without armor rep. There are tho some instances that eanm might prove more beneficial depending on gang setup and logistics, but that is beside this thread de-railed point, sorta . Also 'you' can't determine a ship's lasting performance solely based upon ehp, because sometimes.. there is more than one 'fight' ahead. I have admittedly no amarr flying experince other than fighting against such ships. You should give a DD a try over punisher hulls for tackling. Yeah it is an expensive option.. but a fun one. Being able to hit within optimal+falloffx1 (and beyond) your lock range, very fast and agile ship for an armor tanker, high dmg, and of course the lockdown power of its web. Because of its lower sig and speed/agility, it might be able to negate more applied dmg than vengence.. I admittedly am unsure about that. Only parallel I could draw is tackling in jag.. I prefer DD, but armor logistics I think added some sway to the arguement. ---------------------------------------- -Treat the EVE Market like you're a pimp and it is your 'employee'.. freely fondle it as you wish and make it pay you for it-
Rhak Amharr Minmatar Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.11.02 20:17:00 - [67] I just kicked Intigo from Genos but him starting this discussion makes me want to undo that (if I didn't do it anyway). This discussion is hilarious, argument-wise as well as serious-internet-spaceship-captain-serious-wise. Would read again.
Leksi Bar'zuk	Posted - 2010.11.02 20:36:00 - [68] Originally by: Rhak Amharr I just kicked Intigo from Genos. Pix or it didn't happen. Also, lul.
Intigo Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2010.11.02 20:41:00 - [69] Since I don't actually log in to EVE any more, I checked EVEMon - and he's not lying. :( ___________________
William Cooly Sol Enterprises	Posted - 2010.11.02 21:15:00 - [70] Originally by: Intigo >mfw 5 billion. Can I haz your isks? Originally by: Templar Dane Tanking is not a role.
Leksi Bar'zuk	Posted - 2010.11.02 21:16:00 - [71] Originally by: Intigo Since I don't actually log in to EVE any more, I checked EVEMon - and he's not lying. :( omgeeze
Zach Donnell Ghost-Busters	Posted - 2010.11.02 22:19:00 - [72] Oh. my. God. This thread has it all. High five to Aerilis for actually understanding this stuff. Dav, I thought much more of you before I read your posts ITT.
Tropic9 Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.11.03 09:54:00 - [73] Umega's combat record - Ranked #172,047
Lady Spank Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2010.11.03 11:58:00 - [74] Edited by: Lady Spank on 03/11/2010 12:00:22 This thread is awesome. I held off reading it till now but :ohdear: EDIT: Intigo since we are such good mates feel free to join my corp. ~_~
Dav Varan	Posted - 2010.11.03 14:00:00 - [75] Originally by: Zach Donnell Oh. my. God. This thread has it all. High five to Aerilis for actually understanding this stuff. Dav, I thought much more of you before I read your posts ITT. No dont I am a noob.
TaluxA	Posted - 2010.11.03 14:38:00 - [76] Okay I will.
Dav Varan	Posted - 2010.11.03 15:51:00 - [77] There not particularilly relevant to the discussion I was just responding to his flamebait with a bit of gentle mocking. p.s. Swapping his DCU's for WCS would have saved his ass in each instance iirc.
Tozmeister Digital Fury Corporation Northern Coalition.	Posted - 2010.11.03 16:31:00 - [78] Nerf WCS. +++????+++Out of Cheese Error. Redo From Start+++
Intigo Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2010.11.03 16:45:00 - [79] Dav Varan's combat record - Ranked #333 Intigo's combat record - Ranked #32 (I dropped a spot ) ___________________
Dav Varan	Posted - 2010.11.03 16:58:00 - [80] Originally by: Intigo Dav Varan's combat record - Ranked #333 Intigo's combat record - Ranked #32 (I dropped a spot ) Intigo's solo kills in last month = 0 Dav's solo kills in last month = lots When I need advice on fitting a gang gate camping ship capable of killing haulers, I'll give you a call you seem quite expert at it. When I want to know how to fit a solo rail dd I'll listen to my own council thanks and goodnight.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2010.11.03 17:21:00 - [81] Originally by: Dav Varan more realistically if your taking structure damage its probably time to GTFO before you take a wrecking hit and end up in your pod. EHP is EHP, it doesn't matter where it is.
Dav Varan	Posted - 2010.11.03 17:31:00 - [82] Originally by: Gypsio III Originally by: Dav Varan more realistically if your taking structure damage its probably time to GTFO before you take a wrecking hit and end up in your pod. EHP is EHP, it doesn't matter where it is. For a gang action I agree with you. But for solo when you can manage damage better you dont want damage leaking into structure ( require a dockup to fix ). DD has amasing GTFO power so why let damage leak into structure if you can avoid it ? opt for tougher primary buffer instead.
Indeterminacy THORN Syndicate Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2010.11.03 17:43:00 - [83] lol, i don't even...
Leksi Bar'zuk	Posted - 2010.11.03 17:45:00 - [84] Repairing is for wussies? lul, herp derp
Zach Donnell Ghost-Busters	Posted - 2010.11.03 19:57:00 - [85] Edited by: Zach Donnell on 03/11/2010 19:59:44 Originally by: Dav Varan Edited by: Dav Varan on 03/11/2010 14:34:17 Originally by: Zach Donnell Oh. my. God. This thread has it all. High five to Aerilis for actually understanding this stuff. Dav, I thought much more of you before I read your posts ITT. No dont I am a noob. and remember Damage control are great They will save your ship In every 1v1 Engagement Please keep fitting them . My deaths I am pretty bad, even I will admit that. You can find plenty more horrible deaths I assure you. I have a tendency to take on fights where even I know I have no chance But I shouldn't pull this thread off topic any more than it already is. EDIT: Grammar ------------------------------------------------- "Bustin' makes me feel good!"
Ariel Dawn Perkone	Posted - 2010.11.03 20:43:00 - [86] Edited by: Ariel Dawn on 03/11/2010 20:46:46 How are there 3 pages of this kind of discussion, EVE Online is amazing.
Intigo Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2010.11.03 21:14:00 - [87] Dav, not playing the game, but still better than you. ___________________
Dav Varan	Posted - 2010.11.04 02:53:00 - [88] Originally by: Intigo Dav, not playing the game, but still better than you. Its true. In the opinion of one person, The person who designed the BC killpoint system. You are the 31st , sorry 32nd best player in eve.
AstarothPrime	Posted - 2010.11.05 11:47:00 - [89] Originally by: Aerilis Originally by: Dav Varan Originally by: Aerilis Now with an EANM, you repair more EHP per point of capacitor, yes. But with the DC, you have more buffer. As everyone knows, buffer is better in high DPS situations and more repped EHP is better in lower DPS, drawn out fights. This is exactly the point. The primary tactic when flying a Rail DD or any kiting fit for that matter is to control engagement range and transversal and create an environment where you are taking little damage while doing high damage yourself. If you are flying it correctly you will be in a low dps situation. You have to lose the mind set of it being a slug fest where dps x ehp versus dps x ehp is the key to victory. DID YOU NOT SEE THE PART WHERE THE FIGHT HAS TO LAST FOR 10 MINUTES BEFORE THE EANM BECOMES WORTH IT How about 20 seconds? Like this: [My dramiel] Low: Damage Control II Gyrostabilizer II Micro Auxiliary Power Core I Med: Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters Gistii B-Type 1MN Afterburner Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Caldari Navy Warp Scrambler High: 150mm Light AutoCannon II,Republic Fleet EMP S 150mm Light AutoCannon II,Republic Fleet EMP S Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I Rigs: Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II Small Ancillary Current Router I Small Auxiliary Thrusters I Drones_Active=Hobgoblin II,3 Didnt invent it myself - its just OP battleclinics loadout ;) Cheers I.
Riedle Minmatar MARSOC Galactic	Posted - 2010.11.05 12:37:00 - [90] Originally by: Intigo Did people realize how stupid Umega is yet? His first post.

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