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JcJet
Caldari
Pretenders Inc
Tower of Dark Alliance
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Posted - 2010.11.16 11:06:00 -
[1]
Edited by: JcJet on 16/11/2010 11:10:55
Hi.
A few days before i've warped on sleeper anomaly in cl6. And my tengu was completely drained, i barely been able to activate some of active hardeners...
So i wonder, it's a planned change to TQ? :)
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CCP Ytterbium
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Posted - 2010.11.16 12:25:00 -
[2]
Edited by: CCP Ytterbium on 16/11/2010 12:26:25
Yes indeed, while balancing the new incursion Sansha NPCs we realized the Sleepers were incorrectly set, and not actively draining energy even if using the matching visual effect on players. This has been fixed on Singularity.
Please note this only affects the Sleepers however, regular mission/asteroid belt NPCs will not be affected. |
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JcJet
Caldari
Pretenders Inc
Tower of Dark Alliance
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Posted - 2010.11.16 17:32:00 -
[3]
Thanks for a clear answer :)
Expecting some whine topics 
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JonShannow
Caldari
Regante
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Posted - 2010.11.16 17:51:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: JcJet
Edited by: JcJet on 16/11/2010 11:10:55
Hi.
A few days before i've warped on sleeper anomaly in cl6. And my tengu was completely drained, i barely been able to activate some of active hardeners...
So i wonder, it's a planned change to TQ? :)
Wow bit more info needed on this plz, by the sounds of it they using neuts not nos, is this in class 6 only or is it in all classes.
Seems a bit harsh after so long without nueting, they suddenly going to, it could certainly screw up all my and my corps fits.
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Dmoney3788
THE DISC
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Posted - 2010.11.16 17:55:00 -
[5]
Originally by: JonShannow
Originally by: JcJet
Edited by: JcJet on 16/11/2010 11:10:55
Hi.
A few days before i've warped on sleeper anomaly in cl6. And my tengu was completely drained, i barely been able to activate some of active hardeners...
So i wonder, it's a planned change to TQ? :)
Wow bit more info needed on this plz, by the sounds of it they using neuts not nos, is this in class 6 only or is it in all classes.
Seems a bit harsh after so long without nueting, they suddenly going to, it could certainly screw up all my and my corps fits.
Adapt or die
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2010.11.16 17:57:00 -
[6]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Edited by: CCP Ytterbium on 16/11/2010 12:26:25
Yes indeed, while balancing the new incursion Sansha NPCs we realized the Sleepers were incorrectly set, and not actively draining energy even if using the matching visual effect on players. This has been fixed on Singularity.
Please note this only affects the Sleepers however, regular mission/asteroid belt NPCs will not be affected.
Is it still the case that those changes can't be rolled out to the 'normal' npc, because of cpu usage of this AI?
Would you have any news on that topic anyways? I seem to remember that there had been some talk years ago that normal npc would step-by-step brought up (to par?) with sleeper AI once this has been established as working?
Originally by: JonShannow
Originally by: JcJet
Hi.
A few days before i've warped on sleeper anomaly in cl6. And my tengu was completely drained, i barely been able to activate some of active hardeners...
So i wonder, it's a planned change to TQ? :)
Wow bit more info needed on this plz, by the sounds of it they using neuts not nos, is this in class 6 only or is it in all classes.
Seems a bit harsh after so long without nueting, they suddenly going to, it could certainly screw up all my and my corps fits.
Boo-hoo 
New Eden needs a Public Feature/Idea/Bug-Tracker |
JonShannow
Caldari
Regante
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Posted - 2010.11.16 18:01:00 -
[7]
I hate to feed trolls but am sure your hungry.
I am sure we will actually adapt and not die, I ask only to get more info if possible, if not I will just test it myself.
Jon.
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JcJet
Caldari
Pretenders Inc
Tower of Dark Alliance
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Posted - 2010.11.16 18:40:00 -
[8]
Well, i think it's not in cl-6 only, because i've seen this nos effect in other classes. And i think there is no reason to fix only 6 ones. It's was pulsar btw, so in other systems it's can be much tougher.
I've heard that in a begining sleeper nos worked fine, but was removed because of lot of whine. Well, now WH is quite popular, so maybe it's about time to get this back.
And btw, there is an interesting phrase in one of latest devblog about Sansha incursions:
Quote:
Speaking of the NPCs, while we adopted a "wolf pack" approach for the Sleepers in Apocrypha, we chose to create very specialized units for this feature, inspired from players setups. We also improved the Sleeper AI to match their new capabilities. As such you will face NPC equivalent of logistics, stealth bombers, remote spider-repairing battleships, interceptors, command ships, EW platforms, and more.
EW platforms? ECM, Target Painters, Dampening it's EW too, and i'm afraid it's also can be quite painful, if it will added to sleeper EWar
Well, at least a sleeper salvage price will go up...
And personally, althrough WH it's now my main activity, i don't think that it's a bad news, because sleepers was not intended to be easy to farm for everyone...
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el Sabor
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Posted - 2010.11.16 18:44:00 -
[9]
As someone who regularly runs WH sites with friends:
Brilliant! More interesting EWar or AI tweaks are always welcome
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Prof Bunson
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Posted - 2010.11.16 22:22:00 -
[10]
Sweet. T3 prices are gonna go way way up folks; all those solo/shield tanking WH bears are screwed.
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Pesets
The Hunt Club
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Posted - 2010.11.17 05:14:00 -
[11]
Originally by: JcJet
And btw, there is an interesting phrase in one of latest devblog about Sansha incursions:
Quote:
Speaking of the NPCs, while we adopted a "wolf pack" approach for the Sleepers in Apocrypha, we chose to create very specialized units for this feature, inspired from players setups. We also improved the Sleeper AI to match their new capabilities. As such you will face NPC equivalent of logistics, stealth bombers, remote spider-repairing battleships, interceptors, command ships, EW platforms, and more.
EW platforms? ECM, Target Painters, Dampening it's EW too, and i'm afraid it's also can be quite painful, if it will added to sleeper EWar
I think this is referring to Incursion Sansha NPCs using "Sleeper AI", not the actual Sleeper NPCs being redesigned (might want to give that AI a separate name to avoid confusion... like, i dunno, "EbilTearJerker AI" or something?). So far i've seen ISansha rats jam and neut, i don't think they damp or track disrupt... though by now maybe they do.
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Abyss Wyrm
Caldari
We Don't Need This POS Anyway
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Posted - 2010.11.18 17:47:00 -
[12]
Intresting change, although won't prevent то farm sleepers effectevly, only a bit slower maybe.
I hope nanoribbons price will go up %)
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Kassa Daito
Capital Construction Research
Pioneer Alliance
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Posted - 2010.11.18 22:12:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Kassa Daito on 18/11/2010 22:12:59
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Edited by: CCP Ytterbium on 16/11/2010 12:26:25
Yes indeed, while balancing the new incursion Sansha NPCs we realized the Sleepers were incorrectly set, and not actively draining energy even if using the matching visual effect on players. This has been fixed on Singularity.
Please note this only affects the Sleepers however, regular mission/asteroid belt NPCs will not be affected.
/me hopes CCP intended to tell us about this bugfix in the patch notes.
I always thought the sleepers were nossing but maintained high capacitor levels ;) As a previous poster said, the major sleeper loot producers will continue operating with minor changes because they were already mostly passive tanked RR setups or capital logistics with a fair amount of extra capacitor. The real tears will come from the people trying to solo C3s and C4s.
**
Disclaimer: Author sometimes spell checks but is not responsible for sins of commission, omission, emission, transmission, or submission. Flowers, bricks, or any other form of feedback appreciated |
Coka Cola1
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Posted - 2010.11.19 04:03:00 -
[14]
can anyone confirm what the nos'ing is like in a C4 or C3? Currently thats where my corp is setup but I cant test it myself. Wondering how much it will effect our active tanks.
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Baillif
Red Mist Inc.
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Posted - 2010.11.19 07:07:00 -
[15]
Correct me if I'm wrong but the effect being shown is a Nos which shouldn't be draining cap unless you were either energy neutralizing the sleeper or it was somehow crapping it's own cap out. To my knowledge you can't cap a sleeper out since they are bottomless cap like any other NPC (which is anal gay btw)
If you meant for them to be neuting then change the effect to a neuting effect. This is irritating for two reasons because 1. Nos is working as intended or 2. It just took CCP 2 years to figure out sleepers should be neuting but weren't. In either case CCP is ******ed.
I rather liked catching cap stable super tank tengu's that had 2 billion isk worth of gear on them. This type of fitting and flying should be encouraged, not groups of t2 fit crap RR t3 fits.
Sounds like some CCP dev joined a wormhole corp and got butthurt when they said get tengu to rat sleepers or GTFO
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Bubbled
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Posted - 2010.11.19 08:14:00 -
[16]
In my opinion, a correct approach would be this: if sleepers are now really capable to NOS/NEUT then they should suffer from the same thing as capsulers do. They should not have a infinite cap to their disposal so if they NEUT too much (or if they are hit by players NEUT) they should run out of cap and drop tank/mwd/web/scram/other-cap-eating-modules.
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Vidar Kentoran
Minmatar
Eighty Joule Brewery
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Posted - 2010.11.19 08:53:00 -
[17]
I don't really care about people who solo C3/C4, but I sure hope this doesn't buff Capital Escalations to the point that they instantly cap out any subcap, cause that would be really annoying for those of us who treat wormholes as a team thing.
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JcJet
Caldari
Pretenders Inc
Tower of Dark Alliance
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Posted - 2010.11.19 11:03:00 -
[18]
Edited by: JcJet on 19/11/2010 11:05:25
Originally by: Vidar Kentoran
I don't really care about people who solo C3/C4, but I sure hope this doesn't buff Capital Escalations to the point that they instantly cap out any subcap, cause that would be really annoying for those of us who treat wormholes as a team thing.
Passive tanking and cap energy transfers(when necessary) for those few useful ships which still need a cap. Problem solved.
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JonShannow
Caldari
Regante
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Posted - 2010.11.19 16:59:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Baillif
Sounds like some CCP dev joined a wormhole corp and got butthurt when they said get tengu to rat sleepers or GTFO
Love it, def sig material 
I also thought it was nos not nuets, and yep if they are gonna nuet then they should be able to be nueted.
Its definitely gonna take a bit of playing around with to sort out new ways of running the plexes, would be horrible to find out the only way to do these plexes would be in buffer fit rr groups.
Just another case of CCP being too lazy to have separate AI for the sleeper and Sansha I guess
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Ive J
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Posted - 2010.11.19 17:56:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Ive J on 19/11/2010 17:59:25
One world: WHINE
CCP turned off sleeper nos becouse ppl can't do any anomalies in higer wormhole class (eg. C4-C6). Insta cap draining was terrible and any ships with energy transfer wan't be able to do anomalies and plexes when 90% sleepers have NOS and they are able to attack many targets in this same time.
If you, DEVs turn on nos in TQ, probably many players stop playing or go afk and tell you "that was stupid think".
You turn off this for colonize higer class w-space. Now, you turn on this with telling us "we realize that's don't work" and you think ppl will be able to do this? That's paranoic...
@EDIT: Stop doing stupid thinks and nerfs w-space what is realy perfect at this moment. Try go to w-space class 5 with few ppl and try do any anomalies or magneto/radar plex. You realy don't know anythink about wormholes and thinking you are best...
DEV: "I know everthink about w-space"
Player: "Do you run any anomalies in any wormhole?"
DEV: "erm.... can you search me some w-space, i will try it"
Yes ffs... try do this now and as ppl said you, don't nerf our perfect world
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Sader Rykane
Amarr
Midnight Sentinels
Midnight Space Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.11.19 18:17:00 -
[21]
Oh ****, need MUCH more info on this and what to expect. We have a lot of established fits that need some tweaking if this goes through.
And really... It took you over a YEAR to realize this?
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JcJet
Caldari
Pretenders Inc
Tower of Dark Alliance
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Posted - 2010.11.19 18:20:00 -
[22]
WH is already kinda overpopulated, and it's getting worse every month. So don't worry, i'm sure someone else will take your system, if you don't need it...
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Chruker
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Posted - 2010.11.19 21:39:00 -
[23]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Edited by: CCP Ytterbium on 16/11/2010 12:26:25
Yes indeed, while balancing the new incursion Sansha NPCs we realized the Sleepers were incorrectly set, and not actively draining energy even if using the matching visual effect on players. This has been fixed on Singularity.
Please note this only affects the Sleepers however, regular mission/asteroid belt NPCs will not be affected.
damn you. I was enjoying their fake nos'ing
----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online -----
Top wishes:
- No daily downtime
- Faster training on sisi
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Contralto
Rift Tech
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Posted - 2010.11.19 22:03:00 -
[24]
Anyone have any info on the amount the various sleepers Nuet/Nos? is it in the DB?
I am setting up test configs on Eft using a faction heavy Nos as a benchmark, Trying to get cap stable with 4 activated on one ship. Easily handled by a Carrier But active Tengus will die fast unless RR by a Logistics or Carrier.
looks like the old Lvl V mission Passive Nighthawk/Tengus will be resurrected, along with their dismal Dps output. |
Mella Elcus
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Posted - 2010.11.20 04:28:00 -
[25]
Does this mean that everyone who wants to solo a C3 will have to train for a Drake? :/
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1920s Flapper
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Posted - 2010.11.20 04:57:00 -
[26]
1) Could a GM please clarify if this change is coming with the "upgrade/xmas" patch (t2 ammo/rocket change) or the full incursion patch?
2) Please mirror sisi so people who are now in wormholes can test the new sleeper nos/neut efffect
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JcJet
Caldari
Pretenders Inc
Tower of Dark Alliance
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Posted - 2010.11.20 09:28:00 -
[27]
Originally by: 1920s Flapper
2) Please mirror sisi so people who are now in wormholes can test the new sleeper nos/neut efffect
Actually there is another problem.
Is not a big problem to scan out a entrance to WH system where corp is deployed.
Thing is, there is currently NO combat signatures in our system on SiSi, only WH, La, and grav. Just one, on which i've been when find out about this change, a few days before this topic, and no new combat sigs since then.
I think that they are not spawning on SiSi, they just copied with mirror from TQ... Can anyone confirm that conclusion? It's kinda sad that we unable to do some testing maneuvers because of this...
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JonShannow
Caldari
Regante
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Posted - 2010.11.20 09:55:00 -
[28]
Originally by: JcJet
Originally by: 1920s Flapper
2) Please mirror sisi so people who are now in wormholes can test the new sleeper nos/neut efffect
Actually there is another problem.
Is not a big problem to scan out a entrance to WH system where corp is deployed.
Thing is, there is currently NO combat signatures in our system on SiSi, only WH, La, and grav. Just one, on which i've been when find out about this change, a few days before this topic, and no new combat sigs since then.
I think that they are not spawning on SiSi, they just copied with mirror from TQ... Can anyone confirm that conclusion? It's kinda sad that we unable to do some testing maneuvers because of this...
was combat sigs in our wh yesterday on SiSi
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Contralto
Rift Tech
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Posted - 2010.11.20 10:10:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Contralto on 20/11/2010 10:14:21
I have 3 Combat sites in my C4, I am currently being Nos/Nueted by a single Sleepless Upholder BS at 65km, Although I have the graphic I dont appear to be having any Cap drained atm. I am in an Active Tengu, Cap stable at 50% for 10 minutes now.
Now orbiting at 3km still at 50% cap.
He has stopped Nossing now and cap is still steady at 50%
There is also a Sleepless Preserver but it doesnt Nos.
Perhaps it is only C5 and C6 that are now Nossing?
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Baillif
Red Mist Inc.
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Posted - 2010.11.20 10:43:00 -
[30]
What level was that tengu's cap stability normally?
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Contralto
Rift Tech
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Posted - 2010.11.20 10:59:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Contralto on 20/11/2010 11:00:52
That was its normal level, I left it running for 30 minutes while the Upholder turned its Nos on and off, there was no difference. Sometimes went several minutes with no Nos graphic effect.
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Catari Taga
Centre Of Attention
Middle of Nowhere
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Posted - 2010.11.20 11:25:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Contralto
Do some Sleepers nuet and some Nos?
They all have a Nos graphic atm. I had understood the change being all them being switched to neut but apparently not. As stated in the thread, Nos is pointless coming from NPCs due to infinite cap.
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HeliosGal
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.11.20 11:46:00 -
[33]
so more wh space logis or rr domis stepping up to the plate that works
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Janus Nanzikambe
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Posted - 2010.11.22 07:04:00 -
[34]
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Edited by: CCP Ytterbium on 16/11/2010 12:26:25
Yes indeed, while balancing the new incursion Sansha NPCs we realized the Sleepers were incorrectly set, and not actively draining energy even if using the matching visual effect on players. This has been fixed on Singularity.
Please note this only affects the Sleepers however, regular mission/asteroid belt NPCs will not be affected.
Dear CCP Ytterbium,
Thanks to your message above, on Saturday my alliance and I spent hours hauling logistics ships, battleships & T3s on SISI to class 4 wormhole to check on this neuting. We spent around 30 minutes tanking the second spawn of a Frontier Barracks site staring avidly at our capacitors. Nada. Zip. Rien. Nothing. No neuting occurs. Why did we choose this site? Because of the 3 Sleepless Upholder battleships that display the neut graphic.
Can we assume that:
a) Neuting is on such a tiny level that our puny human eyes were unable to observe any effect upon our capacitors
b) The neuting has only been enabled on certain Sleepers and the Sleepless Upholder is not amongst them. This incidentally means class 4 wormholes are unaffected as the only other sides with anything other than upholders and the neut graphic have just frigates
c) the neuting has once more been disabled
Please reply. Enquiring minds want to know.
o/ Janus Nanzikambe
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CCP Habakuk
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Posted - 2010.11.22 12:00:00 -
[35]
Hi!
The fix for the neut-effect on sleepers will not be deployed to Tranquility before January.
Currently this is not active on Singularity, as we are testing the content of the November release. The fix will be back on Singularity together with the Incursion feature and the new character creation (no eta yet).
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Janus Nanzikambe
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Posted - 2010.11.22 12:36:00 -
[36]
Originally by: CCP Habakuk
Hi!
The fix for the neut-effect on sleepers will not be deployed to Tranquility before January.
Currently this is not active on Singularity, as we are testing the content of the November release. The fix will be back on Singularity together with the Incursion feature and the new character creation (no eta yet).
Thanks for the quick response! We shall retest in December/January then.
o/
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Ned Black
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Posted - 2010.11.22 13:01:00 -
[37]
If the amount of cap neuting is as high as it seems wont this essentially kill any and all shield tanking in WHs?
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Contralto
Rift Tech
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Posted - 2010.11.22 15:34:00 -
[38]
It will effect Armor tankers more than shield tankers, Armor tanking cant be made totally passive.
It will mean Passive shield Tengu's, Drakes, Rattlesnakes and Nighthawks will become flavor of the month. Plus Logistics with Energy transfer bonuses for larger active tanked gangs.
On Sites up to C4 If you have more than 1500 to 2000 dps you will kill the Nuets faster than they can drain you, so if you have at least 3 damage dealers you will be able to keep active tanks.
Due to Passive tankers poor Dps (no damage mods or rigs), Solo players will have a hard time completing C3 and C4 sites in a reasonable time frame, The C4 RR Sleepless Preservers will be hard to kill at all if you have less than 500 dps available.
My own plans to adapt include using a Carrier to support a Tengu, Carrier will shrug off any nueting in a C4, not sure about C5 and up though.
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Wen Jaibao
PAX AUGUSTA
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Posted - 2010.11.23 00:29:00 -
[39]
Time to train for Minmatar BS then.
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Professor Villinghopper
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Posted - 2010.11.23 04:33:00 -
[40]
LoL @ lasers and hybrid if sleepers begin to neut(Nos does nothing), not that anyone uses hybrids and lasers in wormholes currently anyway.
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Ned Black
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Posted - 2010.11.23 09:27:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Contralto
It will effect Armor tankers more than shield tankers, Armor tanking cant be made totally passive.
It will mean Passive shield Tengu's, Drakes, Rattlesnakes and Nighthawks will become flavor of the month. Plus Logistics with Energy transfer bonuses for larger active tanked gangs.
On Sites up to C4 If you have more than 1500 to 2000 dps you will kill the Nuets faster than they can drain you, so if you have at least 3 damage dealers you will be able to keep active tanks.
Due to Passive tankers poor Dps (no damage mods or rigs), Solo players will have a hard time completing C3 and C4 sites in a reasonable time frame, The C4 RR Sleepless Preservers will be hard to kill at all if you have less than 500 dps available.
My own plans to adapt include using a Carrier to support a Tengu, Carrier will shrug off any nueting in a C4, not sure about C5 and up though.
Ehhh... I think your passive and my passive tank is a tad bit diffrent.
I am not talking about passive tanks as in shield recharge... that is totally useless in higher end WHs since you cant tank even close to enough to sustain them. A passive tank works up to C3 but anything above that would be hard pressed I think.
In fact armor tankers are the only one capable of fitting passive multi resist mods (Energized Adaptive Nano Membranes and Adaptive Nano Plating)... something shield tankers can't. The only multi resist mod available to shield tankers are Invulnerability fields, and if you shut those down due to no cap then the ship being hit is royaly fracked.
If you neut the armor tanker then he still retain his resists unless he is using active armor hardners... and if he does then if he get neuted to hell he will be fracked as well.
A passive ship in a WH is one with no active mods, high resists and a good buffer. Since shield tankers pretty much require active mods to run their tanks they are worse off than armor tankers
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Vidar Kentoran
Minmatar
Eighty Joule Brewery
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Posted - 2010.11.23 09:42:00 -
[42]
Tengus, Drakes and Nighthawks have so much extra ehp beyond what is needed that they'd probably be fine with pure passive tanks(assuming they get reps).. but requiring a purely passive shield tank screws a lot of other previously viable ships quite hard(machariels, maelstroms, golems, pretty much any T1 BS actually except ones with resist bonuses, and probably a bunch of other things I'm forgetting).
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Abyss Wyrm
Caldari
We Don't Need This POS Anyway
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Posted - 2010.11.23 10:04:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Professor Villinghopper
LoL @ lasers and hybrid if sleepers begin to neut(Nos does nothing), not that anyone uses hybrids and lasers in wormholes currently anyway.
Ohrly? lol
You realy don't know what you talking about, are you? Or you never was in higher then class 4 WH.
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Abyss Wyrm
Caldari
We Don't Need This POS Anyway
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Posted - 2010.11.23 10:08:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Contralto
It will effect Armor tankers more than shield tankers, Armor tanking cant be made totally passive.
Aha, good luck to you tank 12 sleepless guardians + 1 sleepless keeper + 2 sleepless sentinels + 1 sleepless warden (and plus some cruisers and frigates) in fully passive shield.
Its about 11k of DPS.
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Abyss Wyrm
Caldari
We Don't Need This POS Anyway
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Posted - 2010.11.23 10:10:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Catari Taga
Originally by: Contralto
Do some Sleepers nuet and some Nos?
They all have a Nos graphic atm. I had understood the change being all them being switched to neut but apparently not. As stated in the thread, Nos is pointless coming from NPCs due to infinite cap.
All NPCs have NOS efefcts. BRs and some imperials L5 BSs have, L5 neut setries as well have NOS effect.
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Contralto
Rift Tech
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Posted - 2010.11.23 16:18:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Contralto on 23/11/2010 16:22:26
Originally by: Abyss Wyrm
Originally by: Contralto
It will effect Armor tankers more than shield tankers, Armor tanking cant be made totally passive.
Aha, good luck to you tank 12 sleepless guardians + 1 sleepless keeper + 2 sleepless sentinels + 1 sleepless warden (and plus some cruisers and frigates) in fully passive shield.
Its about 11k of DPS.
You wont find any of the above in a C4 which is the level I was referring to, hardest c4 site is the "Unsecured Frontier Digital Nexus" With its final spawn of 4 Sleepless safeguards. Both my Active and passive tanked Tengu's can handle them Solo (with a warfare Tengu boosting) but only just, However the passive tanker has difficulty killing them solo due to its sub 500 dps, The active has over 700.
My point was that If Nos/Nuets are introduced then without logistic support active tankers shield or armor will struggle to survive. If you go in with a decent fleet it wont matter because you will kill the Nos'ers before they can drain you. Again we are talking C4's and below here.
Of course I agree that C5's and 6's are a whole different ball game and wouldn't be possible with any solo Sub Cap ship passive or active. I guess your above list is with a Cap ship escalation?
As for Lvl V missions I did those solid for over 8 months and only The Angel missions approached the dps of the more difficult C4's. I used a Passive Tengu with a Kronos with no tank for Dps, easy because of no target switching and careful trigger management.
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Thyme Wasted
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Posted - 2010.11.23 21:08:00 -
[47]
Agree. Sleeper neuts mean no more soloing C4s, maybe even C3s, in anything. But since they're mostly done by shield tankers anyways, and larger gangs usually aren't shield tanked because remote shield repping < remote armor repping, yes this is a boost to armor-tanked gang PVE, and probably a price hike for nanoribbons & perhaps T3 as a whole.
The downside is fewer tasty pvp targets in expensive tengus with lovely faction/complex/officer loot. :(
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Vidar Kentoran
Minmatar
Eighty Joule Brewery
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Posted - 2010.11.23 22:18:00 -
[48]
Quote:
larger gangs usually aren't shield tanked because remote shield repping < remote armor repping
How do you figure?
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haav0c
|
Posted - 2010.11.24 05:22:00 -
[49]
ROFL...this explains my "oh god, they're draining my cap...huh, my cap is fine" for the last 6 months or so... I just thought I made unusually cap-stable fits.
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Sader Rykane
Amarr
Midnight Sentinels
Midnight Space Syndicate
|
Posted - 2010.11.27 09:25:00 -
[50]
bump, need more info.
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JcJet
Caldari
Pretenders Inc
Tower of Dark Alliance
|
Posted - 2010.11.27 18:39:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Sader Rykane
bump, need more info.
Well, waiting for new build...
---
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Agallis Zinthros
SniggWaffe
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2010.11.28 22:31:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Agallis Zinthros on 28/11/2010 22:34:32
How dare you remove my ability to solo farm C3s in my Tengu.
EDIT: Good job killing variety CCP. Now Wormholes only accept the following ships, period: Rattler, Drake, Nighthawk, and Basi/Tengu gang. It sure was fun having lots of options in wormholes. Thanks a bunch, what a great fix. (Those are the only viable ships. Nothing else will work nearly well enough when this change goes live)
It's not piracy, its surprise PVP. |
Blofeld1
|
Posted - 2010.11.29 22:34:00 -
[53]
Not normally a complainer, but mother humper CCP this ****es me off. Not a shot in haites I'm doing wormholes after this change takes place. Guess I get to enjoy my wormhole through December, then pack up and leave. Good job CCP, way to make the game better by removing the ability of a crapton of people to use the great wormholes you came up with.
WTS C3 wormhole 
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Tameris Khan
|
Posted - 2010.11.30 09:54:00 -
[54]
I for one welcome this change!
Too many WH are infested with one man + his alt corps attempting to play eve in single player mode *AND* reap the maximum reward. This change will do great things for the price of sleeper salvage providing a much needed boost for those of us that actually attempt to interact (you know like the M in MMO) with others in this game.
Normally I'd not mind as these solo folk provide pvp opportunities, but of late too many of them don't venture out of POS FF if there're any unaccounted for jumps into their system. Sieging their POSs is an exercise in futility as typically the tengu is the only thing of value in it and they'll just log off in it with all their loot before the POS comes out of reinforced.
Pls introduce mechanisms to automatically rid systems of their offline POS, valueless mods and customs offices after a period of time next.
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Daneel Trevize
Black Viper Nomads
|
Posted - 2010.12.01 23:03:00 -
[55]
If you want to, help find T3s and T2 hulls that'll cope with this change |
Syyl'ara
Gallente
Intaki Prosperity Initiative
|
Posted - 2010.12.01 23:54:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Tameris Khan
I for one welcome this change!
Too many WH are infested with one man + his alt corps attempting to play eve in single player mode *AND* reap the maximum reward. This change will do great things for the price of sleeper salvage providing a much needed boost for those of us that actually attempt to interact (you know like the M in MMO) with others in this game.
Multiplayer only specifies that multiple players exist in the same environment, not that those players must directly interact with one another. The term you are looking for is "synchronous cooperative mode". Since the genre descriptor (besides just being a loose definition that you are attempting to bludgeon people over the head with a narrow interpretation of) is not MSCORPG, your point is revealed as entirely without validity.
Interact, as well, does not mean that they have to do so with you and on the terms you demand.
Next time, before you try to sound like you know what you're talking about, bother educating yourself on what the terms actually mean and what the genre is actually built on (getting in little groups and killing pretend things together isn't the central purpose).
Single largest group I know of using the "M in MMORPG means you have to group up to do anything important" are the rabid BioWare fanboys who can't wait to fly their spaceships in a tube shooter (which is ironically a feature that is purported only to have single-player modes).
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Tameris Khan
|
Posted - 2010.12.02 07:08:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Syyl'ara
...
While you make an appreciable point technically, it's a shame you made no attempt to understand the point of view I represent and the reasons for that. Perhaps I did a poor job of expressing it. Allow me to clarify.
My problem with one man corps in Wspace is that they are game breaking. They are a scourge in need of correction as direly as one man alt-fleets doing level 5 missions in highsec were.
Why? There're only three times that the solitary WH farmer is vulnerable: 1) when he farms his sites and only if he makes a few stupid mistakes (namely not scanning down every sig in system then monitoring these to check there are no new k162s appearing whilst he is vulnerable). 2) when he does a fuel or shopping run (rare) 3) doing PI (once per day maximum). Of these 3 times only the second requires he open his static wormhole and send a character out of the system.
There are 2,499 wormhole space systems. A very finite ammount.
For a group larger than a half dozen active players, the spawn dynamics of a system mean you need to "farm" your statics to survive or risk having nothing to do. I use the term farm loosely here because I'm not just referring to PVE, but to PVP as well. When every wormhole system has a semi-active one man corp logging in only to clear out the sites in system, the system is broken for the larger corps that open up the statics. Reccently we have hit new records regularly with the ammount of wormholes we've collapsed attempting to find neighbouring systems with either sites or active players or both within (29 wormholes collapsed in a day) to no avail. You might argue that we should simply remove the offending POS, and we have on many occasions, however this isn't practical as by the time the tower comes out of reinforced, we are linked elsewhere and not able to reap any reward for our labours, and that still doesn't address the lack of sites. You might suggest that we let our local system or a captured system lie fallow for a while to regenerate its own sites, however that leaves it vulnerable to a corp similar to ours stumbling upon it first. We can't leave a permenant defence force in a fallow system because you can't ask players to waste their game time idly guarding a system for weeks on end with nothing to do.
So yes, I applaud this change that will make it much more difficult for these solitary players. They will now either have to cooperate or else at very least manage many more accounts to achieve the same result. Either of those eventualities is fine with me, someone busy managing a gank ship and 2 or more logistics is less attentive to his scanner. Larger groups provide better challenges and require more sites to sustain.
You need only read further up in this thread to see that CCP intended the neuting from the get-go; solitary wh farmers are simply a consequence of an oversight on their part. It is pretty obvious that higher class wormholes are intended to be group content and no ammount of hair splitting on a technicality on your part will change that.
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Thyme Waster
|
Posted - 2010.12.02 19:19:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Tameris Khan
...
I generally agree with your post, but I believe you are incorrect on a few points.
Solo-player C3 (or lower) colonies quickly run out of stuff to do, and require the additional time / work of moving stuff about, scanning, and so on. So I don't think they're actually as "game breaking" as you say. That being said, they are competition and drive down the profits that would otherwise line your wallet.
If you really hate them so much, just run all their sites to completion, or at least warp to them as you pass through. If they don't have sites, they're probably a dead pos waiting to happen.
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Aidan Patrick
Zero Point Group
|
Posted - 2010.12.02 21:41:00 -
[59]
This change is good. However I only support it if we can counter-neut and counter EW the NPCs in return.
- Aidan Patrick |
Ver Isca
|
Posted - 2010.12.02 22:22:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Ver Isca on 02/12/2010 22:22:30
When can we neut rat caps empty?
So their reps dont activate also no rr nor neuting the player.
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Raid'En
|
Posted - 2010.12.03 14:34:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Ver Isca
Edited by: Ver Isca on 02/12/2010 22:22:30
When can we neut rat caps empty?
So their reps dont activate also no rr nor neuting the player.
seems an interesting point.
if sleepers can totally drain us, them we must be able to do the same to them.
this would also had new fittings.
----------------
** Wormhole Trading ** |
Paridoth
Trannyz
Republic Alliance
|
Posted - 2010.12.05 01:27:00 -
[62]
Trying to plan ahead here, anyone get any stats before they turned it off on sisi? driving me crazy not being able to test this in any way.
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Tameris Khan
|
Posted - 2010.12.07 08:17:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Paridoth
Trying to plan ahead here, anyone get any stats before they turned it off on sisi? driving me crazy not being able to test this in any way.
Warp in battleship, sleepers lock, *zaaap* cap is empty, die.
Time for u to leave wspace 
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JcJet
Caldari
Pretenders Inc
Tower of Dark Alliance
|
Posted - 2010.12.07 08:25:00 -
[64]
full-passive or spider tank...
...rattlesnake? \0/
---
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Paridoth
Trannyz
Republic Alliance
|
Posted - 2010.12.13 04:24:00 -
[65]
Just tested it, nos/neut still off =( im guessing after 1.01 goes live.
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Rythm
Caldari
True Power Team
P0WER 0F TW0
|
Posted - 2010.12.13 09:44:00 -
[66]
rattlesnake, nh etc etc.
thanks CCP for another change to facilitate botting.
AFK |
Paridoth
Trannyz
Republic Alliance
|
Posted - 2010.12.14 04:52:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Rythm
rattlesnake, nh etc etc.
thanks CCP for another change to facilitate botting.
sleepers would eat it's drones alive
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Nimbat
|
Posted - 2010.12.14 08:16:00 -
[68]
Spider-tanking gang with dedicated energy transfer ship?
idk
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Skulldilocks
|
Posted - 2010.12.14 10:25:00 -
[69]
I for one welcome the nerf to solo farmers. I'm pretty sure the design intent was for wormholes to be group activities in all system classes.
C1s and 2s are supposed to be for fleets of new players.
C3s and 4s are supposed to be for fleets of intermediately skilled players.
C5s and 6s are supposed to be for fleets of highly skilled players.
Doesn't that make sense? Sure does to me. More sense than one guy with his 'l337 tengu brah' solo farming c3s and c4s endlessly.
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Lonatos
|
Posted - 2010.12.15 10:15:00 -
[70]
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Lonatos
|
Posted - 2010.12.15 10:18:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Skulldilocks
I for one welcome the nerf to solo farmers. I'm pretty sure the design intent was for wormholes to be group activities in all system classes.
C1s and 2s are supposed to be for fleets of new players.
C3s and 4s are supposed to be for fleets of intermediately skilled players.
C5s and 6s are supposed to be for fleets of highly skilled players.
Doesn't that make sense? Sure does to me. More sense than one guy with his 'l337 tengu brah' solo farming c3s and c4s endlessly.
THIS!!
Great fix ccp, get rid of all the pewpewuberfactionsolotenguplayers.
WH's aren't lvl 4 afk missis
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Lee Janssen
CONCARD
|
Posted - 2010.12.15 10:24:00 -
[72]
What about the C1 Carrier pilots... What about them, WE MUST DESTROY THEM!!!
Seriously though...
-
Damn it, out of duct tape again. |
ebta blin
|
Posted - 2010.12.15 12:30:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Lonatos
THIS!!
Great fix ccp, get rid of all the pewpewuberfactionsolotenguplayers.
WH's aren't lvl 4 afk missis
lol. solo cap farm is not affected.
Guys with logi's are screwed.
thanks CCP.
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Lee Janssen
CONCARD
|
Posted - 2010.12.15 12:52:00 -
[74]
Originally by: ebta blin
Originally by: Lonatos
THIS!!
Great fix ccp, get rid of all the pewpewuberfactionsolotenguplayers.
WH's aren't lvl 4 afk missis
lol. solo cap farm is not affected.
Guys with logi's are screwed.
thanks CCP.
They must all die in painful and horrific ways!
-
Damn it, out of duct tape again. |
crazygirly
Caldari
Frontier Digital Nexus
|
Posted - 2010.12.15 13:38:00 -
[75]
So, I will no longer be able to solo C5s ?
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Ogogov
Gallente
Test Alliance Please Ignore
|
Posted - 2010.12.15 15:20:00 -
[76]
Originally by: crazygirly
So, I will no longer be able to solo C5s ?
So, I will no longer be able to use an active armor tank in a WH at all. ever? (not that I did to start...but anyway)
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Skulldilocks
|
Posted - 2010.12.15 22:01:00 -
[77]
Originally by: ebta blin
Originally by: Lonatos
THIS!!
Great fix ccp, get rid of all the pewpewuberfactionsolotenguplayers.
WH's aren't lvl 4 afk missis
lol. solo cap farm is not affected.
Guys with logi's are screwed.
thanks CCP.
You shouldn't be running with only one logi in your gang. Multiple Logis or bhaals can create cap out of thin air.
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Catari Taga
Centre Of Attention
Middle of Nowhere
|
Posted - 2010.12.16 03:22:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Skulldilocks
Multiple Logis or bhaals can create cap out of thin air.
Please tell me where you are running logistics Bhaalgorns and I'll have to come over and free them from their misery.
--
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2010.12.16 08:13:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Lonatos
Originally by: Skulldilocks
I for one welcome the nerf to solo farmers. I'm pretty sure the design intent was for wormholes to be group activities in all system classes.
*snip*
Doesn't that make sense? Sure does to me. More sense than one guy with his 'l337 tengu brah' solo farming c3s and c4s endlessly.
Great fix ccp, get rid of all the pewpewuberfactionsolotenguplayers.
WH's aren't lvl 4 afk missis
Sounds more to me, that those solo-peeps had been very effective in using the stuff that's available to them. Those whining here, that they couldn't find content in c3/4 should had better chosen c5/6 as their homes.
support
Public Idea Tracker | 24hr PLEX |
JonShannow
Caldari
Regante
|
Posted - 2010.12.16 22:11:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Skulldilocks
You shouldn't be running with only one logi in your gang. Multiple Logis or bhaals can create cap out of thin air.
I know its possible to run a pair of Golem or Domis with cap transfering each other to gain a certain amount of free cap, curious what your setup is for the Bhaal ?
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ihcn
|
Posted - 2010.12.17 03:42:00 -
[81]
So many tears in this topic, it's excellent.
Eve changes and you guys are going to have to either live with it, or quit and give me your stuff. i'm thrilled at all you guys saying you're just going to quit wspace, that means more sites for me.
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JonShannow
Caldari
Regante
|
Posted - 2010.12.17 19:50:00 -
[82]
do the sleepers nuet after this patch ?
bored silly waiting for the repair tool to do its thing
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MisterAl tt1
|
Posted - 2010.12.19 15:35:00 -
[83]
Neutro returned.
Chimera in class6 pulsar (bonus to cap-recharge) was empty in six minutes.
Thus sleeper BS has a large neutro. Each.
CCP, are you kidding???
This makes T3 (a ship CREATED for WH) absolutely useless, as their main bonuses for farm are their resists and, sometimes, speed-tank. With such "changes" any T3 ship will be as good as dead just as soon as it was focused - ne active resists, no AB, nothing. So, this way of farm is dead.
Solo active-tanking - dead.
PVP with dropping your fleet on the enemy making anomaly in class 5-6 - dead.
Capital-farm - almost dead.
Do you honstly want everyone to use spider-domis, full-passive T3 (many doubts they will live) and nothing but? Is this your understanding of "ballance"??
CCP, is THIS is your final idea how sleepers neutro should work, or are you going to hear your customers who really like WH the way they are and think a little more about ballance?
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MisterAl tt1
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Posted - 2010.12.19 16:05:00 -
[84]
Edited by: MisterAl tt1 on 19/12/2010 16:07:45
Addition:
1 Guardian BS = even 1.5 heavy neutro, 35km
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Von Kapiche
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.12.19 18:01:00 -
[85]
Hmm, being able to neut down NPCs, that'd be a welcome change.
If you're going to give them OP neuts, can you at least nerf their weapons down to player levels?
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JonShannow
Caldari
Regante
|
Posted - 2010.12.21 02:02:00 -
[86]
blah speculation, bs etc,, the more important issue is why we cant scan to test this new *feature" with incursion.
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JonShannow
Caldari
Regante
|
Posted - 2010.12.21 03:35:00 -
[87]
let us scan
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JcJet
Caldari
Pretenders Inc
Tower of Dark Alliance
|
Posted - 2010.12.21 06:26:00 -
[88]
It'll be a cristmas surprise, among other things, enjoy
---
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Candente
Caldari
|
Posted - 2010.12.21 07:11:00 -
[89]
the neut sounds a bit OP... but without means to test it i can only imagine a nasty surprise once the update hits TQ. CCP needs to release more data on this change... include sleeper types that neut and possibly by how much, etc.
-------------
rawr~ |
Rythm
Caldari
True Power Team
P0WER 0F TW0
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Posted - 2010.12.21 10:51:00 -
[90]
Lol that's what i was saying.
Oh well, CCP just wants to kick people out of wormholes for their new incursion feature.
Well, pro-tip, personally i am still playing and paying for subscription because of em.
AFK |
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JcJet
Caldari
Pretenders Inc
Tower of Dark Alliance
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Posted - 2010.12.21 12:06:00 -
[91]
Well, the truth is, you're always be ****ed in this game, eventually. It's doesn't matter what you do, how good you do it and how long are you in game. And if you're good, you're get ****ed most frequently(so if you don't get ****ed, you're noob ). It's always been so.
Because all players pays a fixed amount of cash, and there is a lot more noobs than old ones, so it's a simple numbers.
And it's not the worst change in current expansion...
---
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Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.12.21 15:02:00 -
[92]
Will reserve judgement until someone with a clue posts with empirical testing results.
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Catari Taga
Centre Of Attention
Middle of Nowhere
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Posted - 2010.12.21 15:31:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Durzel
Will reserve judgement until someone with a clue posts with empirical testing results.
I sure hope not, the thread is much funnier in its current form.
--
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Hiram Alexander
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.12.21 16:53:00 -
[94]
Personally, I think this is great news. I don't live in WH space currently, but I've spent a lot of time there, and nothing is funnier in this thread to me than the tears of pilots who think Anoikis=Farm...
Loving the tears.
Grow a pair. I's no farm, deal with it; you've had it far too easy for far too long.....
--HA
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Rezard
Minmatar
Fornax Chemica
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Posted - 2010.12.21 16:59:00 -
[95]
CCP wants all his beloved children to come back to normal space, it is for your own good...
"WH space was never intended for you to enjoy and live there"
Come children... return to New Eden.
Sansha Awakening.
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Paridoth
Trannyz
Republic Alliance
|
Posted - 2010.12.21 20:11:00 -
[96]
Originally by: MisterAl tt1
Chimera in class6 pulsar (bonus to cap-recharge) was empty in six minutes.
could you post the fit you used? using your later stated 1.5 heavy neuts each guardian. i am seeing a triage thanatos as cap stable in a vanilla wh. so interested to see why your c6 pulsar chimera is having problems.
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MisterAl tt1
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Posted - 2010.12.21 21:07:00 -
[97]
Edited by: MisterAl tt1 on 21/12/2010 21:07:45
I wasn't the one testing that solo-chimera, actually.
Some more people reported a carrier with still stable, untill it tries to rep both himself and someone else, so I assume the site had more neutro in the initial wave alongside with Guardians.
For those unable to scan a site:
1. Go to Options (Esc) > Reset settings > Reset to default Windows positions.
2. Restart your client.
3. Use only built-in scan, probes won't work.
Tengu, unable to run resists under two Guardians - that's what I saw on my own.
We found one more surprise, at least for pulsars, a separate topic will be created as soon as we gather all the info and screenshots needed.
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Paridoth
Trannyz
Republic Alliance
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Posted - 2010.12.21 21:29:00 -
[98]
why would you need to rep yourself and someone else?
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sentinel22uk
Black Talon Mercs
Random-Violence
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Posted - 2010.12.22 03:44:00 -
[99]
AI > Humuns ?
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Killerhound
Caldari
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2010.12.22 16:05:00 -
[100]
The Chimera I guess is a question of good timing to keep it up alive.
For the damagedealers, actually a Pithum a-type passive hardner gives 56% Resistance with skill at 5 and using less CPU and no cap at all. Do your math gentlemen.
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Skulldilocks
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Posted - 2010.12.22 16:38:00 -
[101]
Originally by: MisterAl tt1
Neutro returned.
Chimera in class6 pulsar (bonus to cap-recharge) was empty in six minutes.
Thus sleeper BS has a large neutro. Each.
CCP, are you kidding???
This makes T3 (a ship CREATED for WH) absolutely useless, as their main bonuses for farm are their resists and, sometimes, speed-tank. With such "changes" any T3 ship will be as good as dead just as soon as it was focused - ne active resists, no AB, nothing. So, this way of farm is dead.
Solo active-tanking - dead.
PVP with dropping your fleet on the enemy making anomaly in class 5-6 - dead.
Capital-farm - almost dead.
Do you honstly want everyone to use spider-domis, full-passive T3 (many doubts they will live) and nothing but? Is this your understanding of "ballance"??
CCP, is THIS is your final idea how sleepers neutro should work, or are you going to hear your customers who really like WH the way they are and think a little more about ballance?
If this is true and not some troll, it is very disturbing indeed. Most corporations in C6 holes use triage carriers as rep support now. The only thing I can see working would be a gang with a LOT of guardian support.
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Joe Bonanno
|
Posted - 2010.12.23 15:35:00 -
[102]
So by nerfing WH's so that sites can only be done sites in groups, CCP is basically saying **** you to all but the largest corporations in WH's. Guess it's time to start hoarding T3 goods, considering the prices for them are going to skyrocket with so many people being forced out of WH's, or at the very least, with less crap actually coming out of WH's.
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Contralto
Rift Tech
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Posted - 2010.12.23 16:14:00 -
[103]
As in most things in Eve, nerfs and changes necesitate adapting to the new influences.
Solo or small groups of T3, BC, BS will have to be supplemented by pairs of cap transfer logistics or adding a Logistics Carrier to the mix. At least in C4 and below. C5 and C6 are mostly done by larger groups so relatively easy for them to add a few more cap transfer ships.
I am planning to replace a Tengu with a Carrier in my C4, It will soak up any cap suction a C4 Sleeper can generate and keep other members of the gang alive. Admittedly not an optimum setup as Fighters and drones die fast in 2 or 3 ship gangs, So not much dps from the carrier.
Something else to experiment with is having a Basi' at max range (90 km with Imp navy cap transfers) from the active tanked damage dealers, which in turn are at max range from the sleeper spawns (100 km+).
At almost 200km from the sleepers, this will reduce the dps on the logistics hopefully allowing it to tank itself without a second logi support. Not sure what range the sleeper BS can Nos out to, but surely not past 150 km
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Jaari Val'Dara
Caldari
Atomic Zeppelins
BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2010.12.23 18:34:00 -
[104]
Edited by: Jaari Val''Dara on 23/12/2010 18:34:45
Originally by: Contralto
As in most things in Eve, nerfs and changes necesitate adapting to the new influences.
Solo or small groups of T3, BC, BS will have to be supplemented by pairs of cap transfer logistics or adding a Logistics Carrier to the mix. At least in C4 and below. C5 and C6 are mostly done by larger groups so relatively easy for them to add a few more cap transfer ships.
I am planning to replace a Tengu with a Carrier in my C4, It will soak up any cap suction a C4 Sleeper can generate and keep other members of the gang alive. Admittedly not an optimum setup as Fighters and drones die fast in 2 or 3 ship gangs, So not much dps from the carrier.
Something else to experiment with is having a Basi' at max range (90 km with Imp navy cap transfers) from the active tanked damage dealers, which in turn are at max range from the sleeper spawns (100 km+).
At almost 200km from the sleepers, this will reduce the dps on the logistics hopefully allowing it to tank itself without a second logi support. Not sure what range the sleeper BS can Nos out to, but surely not past 150 km
The problem with using carriers is that you need to build them inside wh. CCP shouldn't encourage living inside wh's.
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Contralto
Rift Tech
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Posted - 2010.12.23 20:25:00 -
[105]
Yes! and you are restricted to your home system if C4 and below.
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Kleatus Slick
Amarr
Serenity Engineering and Transport Company
Syndicate.
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Posted - 2010.12.28 19:28:00 -
[106]
Ok I just tested the anoms in a c4 with a solo tengu. Faction/Deadspace fit. Tanks 1392 hits for 720ish ( cant remember exactly but it is over 700 I know). Cap stable at 54%
Results:
Barracks: No prob at all, the preservers neut at 70km but if you warp in at range it is easy to stay out of their range.
Information Sanctum: I don't see how any solo tengu is gonna be able to do this one. Tested three times with the EXACT same results.
The Safegaurd comes at you well over 1200ms and brings the 3 Defenders with him. At 50km the Safegaurd starts neuting and within 30 seconds I was cap dry.
I had started out at 133km from him and ran away the whole time while firing salvos at him. When I died he was at approx 35% armor every time.
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Ginlene
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Posted - 2011.01.03 18:45:00 -
[107]
Bump for more test results please?
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Euasked
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Posted - 2011.01.04 02:19:00 -
[108]
Confirming my local tank tengu fit built for c4, died in a fire at 2nd spawn of Frontier Barracks today on Sisi. All 3 Sleepless Guardians had my cap drained below peak recharge in under a minute. The lone guardian in the first spawn was unable to get my tengu (49% stable) below peak recharge.
Discuss... |
Contralto
Rift Tech
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Posted - 2011.01.04 06:07:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Euasked
Confirming my local tank tengu fit built for c4, died in a fire at 2nd spawn of Frontier Barracks today on Sisi. All 3 Sleepless Guardians had my cap drained below peak recharge in under a minute. The lone guardian in the first spawn was unable to get my tengu (49% stable) below peak recharge.
Discuss...
I think you meant to say "Upholders" not "Guardians"?
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Falcus Aurelius
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Posted - 2011.01.04 06:43:00 -
[110]
Edited by: Falcus Aurelius on 04/01/2011 06:43:15
Oh dear...This will be dealt with...
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Falcus Aurelius
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Posted - 2011.01.04 20:31:00 -
[111]
Edited by: Falcus Aurelius on 04/01/2011 20:32:44
Seriously though, any word from CCP whether this will actually go live?
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Catari Taga
Centre Of Attention
Middle of Nowhere
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Posted - 2011.01.05 03:31:00 -
[112]
Edited by: Catari Taga on 05/01/2011 03:31:03
Originally by: Euasked
Confirming my local tank tengu fit built for c4, died in a fire at 2nd spawn of Frontier Barracks today on Sisi. All 3 Sleepless Guardians had my cap drained below peak recharge in under a minute. The lone guardian in the first spawn was unable to get my tengu (49% stable) below peak recharge.
Discuss...
No longer being able to solo class 4 sites sounds like a good change to me. Discuss.
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Dirinan
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Posted - 2011.01.05 16:47:00 -
[113]
Quite an odd change to not have been brought up in a Dev Blog or something. I mean, posting on some thread isn't considered, "Professional."
I looked at the CCP rep's post and said, "That would have been nice to know earlier."
Until I see an official post to the public, I don't see this hitting the next patch.
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Euasked
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Posted - 2011.01.05 21:02:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Catari Taga
Edited by: Catari Taga on 05/01/2011 03:31:03
Originally by: Euasked
Confirming my local tank tengu fit built for c4, died in a fire at 2nd spawn of Frontier Barracks today on Sisi. All 3 Sleepless Guardians had my cap drained below peak recharge in under a minute. The lone guardian in the first spawn was unable to get my tengu (49% stable) below peak recharge.
Discuss...
No longer being able to solo class 4 sites sounds like a good change to me. Discuss.
I dont see this change as making the sites impossible to solo...even so most people "soloing" them were probably dual boxing two t3's or 1x t3 and 1x CS/logi. Were already finding ways around it and it looks as if all it will really do is limit "soloing" t3's to...wait for it...more Tengus! Good job ccp on ****ing on all the t3s that were already the hardest and most expensive to fly/fit for the job...
Anyway, looking forward to the price hike on t3! 400mil Tengu hull anyone?!
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Euasked
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Posted - 2011.01.05 21:07:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Contralto
Originally by: Euasked
Confirming my local tank tengu fit built for c4, died in a fire at 2nd spawn of Frontier Barracks today on Sisi. All 3 Sleepless Guardians had my cap drained below peak recharge in under a minute. The lone guardian in the first spawn was unable to get my tengu (49% stable) below peak recharge.
Discuss...
I think you meant to say "Upholders" not "Guardians"?
Indeed I did, you have my apologies and gratitude for the correction. 
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Contralto
Rift Tech
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Posted - 2011.01.05 23:54:00 -
[116]
I am looking at ways around the problem.
With Sleepers having a range of operation that they wont exceed, placing a sniper 70km outside this limit will mean the Nos never effects you.
I have read that Dreads are already used for this but after an EFT session I came up with a Tengu fit that has over 200km effective missile range and plenty of Dps. Warping a Cov-ops or Zephyr in at 100km then the combat ships at 100km from it will give the required range.
There are some small drawbacks,
More wasted missiles as there will be several in flight after a BS pops, This can be minimized if you predict the missiles required.
Wrecks will be spread out resulting in slower salvaging, but the Noctis should compensate for that.
Spawns may be out of range for longer, increasing time taken.
As with any new tactic it will take some experimentation to fine tune it for different Sleepers. I will setup a couple of Tengu's like this after the 18th.
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Floydd Heywood
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Posted - 2011.01.06 03:21:00 -
[117]
According to EVE-Survival.org there are not many neuting sleepers in C3 sites. I'm not sure if more than described there use the pseudo-NOS now... since it never had any effect I paid no attention to it.
If the data is correct however:
Outpost Frontier Stronghold: No neuters at all
Fortification Frontier Stronghold: One easy-to-kill neuting cruiser, another neuting cruiser and BS in last wave; could be a problem
Solar Cell: Some neuters, but only small stuff. No neuters in the final wave, which is the only one that deals serious damage
The Oruze Construct: Four neuting cruisers in first wave, three can be killed very quickly. One neutung BS in last wave, could be a problem
Seems like the two best-rewarding anomalies in C3s won't be affected by this change. Unless of course I'm wrong and there are more neuting sleepers than I think.
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Contralto
Rift Tech
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Posted - 2011.01.06 07:37:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Floydd Heywood
According to EVE-Survival.org there are not many neuting sleepers in C3 sites.
I think C3 and below wont pose much of a problem, I live in a C4 and that is where things start to get nasty, but yes even in a C4 not all sites have Nos BS.
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leana cyan
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Posted - 2011.01.06 22:49:00 -
[119]
ive tested it in my c5 mag. lost my carrier in like 15 min was nueted to nothin. in a core garrison before i could kill all the frigs cruisers and turrents the bs nueted me to nothing. i hope this doesnt go live to tranq if it does its going to mean higher t3 prices and alot of people leaveing wh space. i and my corp have been in wh space since the begining we have addapted are tactics to live here spent loads of isk to do so and skills to train aswell and now your going to screw us over like this. the way it looks to me is it was your mistake leave the sleepers the way they are. i thought wh space was a place where small corps could get a foothold abviosly your catering to the larger alliances again and screwing over the small corps in eve like allways. believe me i like a challange thats why im in wh space but this is going to far and i wont mind higher t3 prices cause we will be profitting but ide take a closer look at it if i were u. well my rant is done flame away with your stop whineing posts cause u will be whineing when t3 goes sky high and i get richer |
Daneel Trevize
Black Viper Nomads
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Posted - 2011.01.07 01:35:00 -
[120]
So it looks like fits like my linked T3 and CS ones with 'spare' cap boosters will be fine for c3s, right? |
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Miss President
Caldari
SOLARIS ASTERIUS
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Posted - 2011.01.07 02:11:00 -
[121]
There will be lots of complaining for sure. Old fits and ways of running sites won't work, now you need more people, and slightly different setup.
If C5-C6 where nos/neut will be turned on, then those whs should be able to support 6+ players - hopefully, because 6+ players is what you'll likely need to run them.
However if CCP increases amount people needed to run that site, and there is not enough profit at the end of the day split between players...then CCPs wormholes suck.
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Tysliss
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Posted - 2011.01.07 13:25:00 -
[122]
Has this change been thought through?
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Catari Taga
Centre Of Attention
Middle of Nowhere
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Posted - 2011.01.08 08:39:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Euasked
Anyway, looking forward to the price hike on t3! 400mil Tengu hull anyone?!
Check the markets, price spike is already here although it looks like speculation so far. Fun times ahead for sure. :)
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Miss President
Caldari
SOLARIS ASTERIUS
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Posted - 2011.01.08 19:19:00 -
[124]
price spike now is because of stealth CCP neft of sleeper drop rates
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Daneel Trevize
Black Viper Nomads
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Posted - 2011.01.08 21:07:00 -
[125]
Or is it the T2 & T3 ship demand spike from the learning skills removal SP pool??? MD -> |
Mynotron
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Posted - 2011.01.09 20:43:00 -
[126]
Has anyone tested combat sites in a C4 with a Tengu? I have only ever wanted to solo C4's and I enjoy doing it.
Frontier Command Post is probibly still solo-able since not much NOS there. But The other ones look a bit tougher.
It would be intresting to see how much G/J each ship was taking. And are they NOS or Neut?
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fanaka
VMF-214 Blacksheep
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Posted - 2011.01.10 05:09:00 -
[127]
oops :CCP: > nerf/buff > hilarious and expensive explosions > sperge.... |
Canteen Charlie
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Posted - 2011.01.12 01:57:00 -
[128]
Well this was a big concern for me as well as one of our corp divisions moved into a C5 a month ago and are just gearing up to run the sites with carriers. In my testing on SISI yesterday I used a Triage Nidhoggur and sat at the Core Garrison site for 40 minutes and never ran out of cap. Had two local reppers running the entire time. Never went below my eve hq presented cap stability area and all sleeper BS's were cap neutralizing me according to their icons and mouse over details.
I brought my heavy tanked alt in with an Abaddon and she was cap melted super quick. Reshipped her up to a nightmare with a good buffer and more cap charging mods and rigs, and fully cap drained she was still able to shoot 1-2 turrets almost constantly but was click fest between hearing 'your capacitor is empty' and seeing the ticks go up and firing the turrets off again.
I'm not sure how this will work in our small gangs but a cap energy transfer shoots out so much cap so fast this can be pulsed out to fuel tons of cap to a shop as my nightmare had under 10 000 gj and the cap energy transfer gives out 2 000 gj per 5s cycle I believe but it means one less repper for the gang.
I did this sequence 3 times and think the cap neuting can be overcome with skills and mods and lowering the individual dps of the attacking ships, requiring slightly larger groups to do them, imo but I'm still getting my feet wet on C5 site tactics.
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Lanu
0utbreak
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Posted - 2011.01.12 23:00:00 -
[129]
Originally by: Canteen Charlie
Well this was a big concern for me as well as one of our corp divisions moved into a C5 a month ago and are just gearing up to run the sites with carriers. In my testing on SISI yesterday I used a Triage Nidhoggur and sat at the Core Garrison site for 40 minutes and never ran out of cap. Had two local reppers running the entire time. Never went below my eve hq presented cap stability area and all sleeper BS's were cap neutralizing me according to their icons and mouse over details.
I brought my heavy tanked alt in with an Abaddon and she was cap melted super quick. Reshipped her up to a nightmare with a good buffer and more cap charging mods and rigs, and fully cap drained she was still able to shoot 1-2 turrets almost constantly but was click fest between hearing 'your capacitor is empty' and seeing the ticks go up and firing the turrets off again.
I'm not sure how this will work in our small gangs but a cap energy transfer shoots out so much cap so fast this can be pulsed out to fuel tons of cap to a shop as my nightmare had under 10 000 gj and the cap energy transfer gives out 2 000 gj per 5s cycle I believe but it means one less repper for the gang.
I did this sequence 3 times and think the cap neuting can be overcome with skills and mods and lowering the individual dps of the attacking ships, requiring slightly larger groups to do them, imo but I'm still getting my feet wet on C5 site tactics.
Having issues testing stuff on Sisi. But it seems like the people whining just need to learn how to adapt to these changes. Go with more dedicated reppers and use energy transfers on the remaining stuff. Massive cap chains and a carrier to do the repping sounds like a really easy way to handle these changes.
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Canteen Charlie
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Posted - 2011.01.13 00:57:00 -
[130]
We're also going on Sisi tomorrow and switching to shield remote repping and using all minmatar ships setup to not require any cap. Once the escalation is cleared it should be much easier to manage the neuting.
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Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.01.13 17:30:00 -
[131]
Overall sounds like a good change to be honest. C4s+ should not be soloable, even by T3s.
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Euasked
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Posted - 2011.01.13 19:51:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Durzel
Overall sounds like a good change to be honest. C4s+ should not be soloable, even by T3s.
I know its easier to troll and flamebait without actually reading whats been written here but come on...The sites are still soloable you tool, but only by tengus. (Tengi?) All the change will do is further restrict your options for small gang and soloing those c4 sites. Tengu is already the preferred ship for the job so...yea...big deal. 2 lokis can do the job just as well but will take a little more attention and patience. For people who regularly run c4 sites with t3 this wont change much, just add some irritation and training time to the equation. Oh and the income should get better! Looking forward to more of your jealous butt-hurt when that happens.
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Lanu
0utbreak
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Posted - 2011.01.13 23:02:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Canteen Charlie
We're also going on Sisi tomorrow and switching to shield remote repping and using all minmatar ships setup to not require any cap. Once the escalation is cleared it should be much easier to manage the neuting.
Keep us updated please. Would like to see your results.
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Guns nButter
Stormlord Battleforce
Vanguard.
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Posted - 2011.01.14 19:04:00 -
[134]
Is my gang the only one that effectively uses ewar or something? A single scorpion takes out 90% of the dps in the c4 sites that we run. I can only assume that will take out the majority of the neuting as well
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SidtheKid200
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Posted - 2011.01.15 20:40:00 -
[135]
This is to all those crying they can't solo in their Active tanked T3s:
I'm just trying to spread the idea, but what about them passive-tank shield regen Ishtars?
Could you not solo a C3 with the kinda tank that can solo a L5?
If you're using sentries and you stay close, couldn't you just scoop them when they get hit?
Bottom line is: Solo-ing seems possible(still). You just might have to work around the Neut/Nos.
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Sader Rykane
Amarr
Midnight Sentinels
Midnight Space Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.01.16 01:19:00 -
[136]
Originally by: Guns nButter
Is my gang the only one that effectively uses ewar or something? A single scorpion takes out 90% of the dps in the c4 sites that we run. I can only assume that will take out the majority of the neuting as well
We stopped using EWAR when we figured out enough setups that killed sleepers so fast that EWAR wasn't an issue anymore.
Neuting will not bother my corp, if it does we'll just go back to bringing 1 or 2 jamming armor scorps again.
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SidtheKid200
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Posted - 2011.01.16 01:45:00 -
[137]
Originally by: Sader Rykane
Originally by: Guns nButter
Is my gang the only one that effectively uses ewar or something? A single scorpion takes out 90% of the dps in the c4 sites that we run. I can only assume that will take out the majority of the neuting as well
We stopped using EWAR when we figured out enough setups that killed sleepers so fast that EWAR wasn't an issue anymore.
Neuting will not bother my corp, if it does we'll just go back to bringing 1 or 2 jamming armor scorps again.
So...you admit you might be needing the EWAR. Hmmm...
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Swidgen
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Posted - 2011.01.18 02:06:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Ive J
One world: WHINE
CCP turned off sleeper nos becouse ppl can't do any anomalies in higer wormhole class (eg. C4-C6). Insta cap draining was terrible and any ships with energy transfer wan't be able to do anomalies and plexes when 90% sleepers have NOS and they are able to attack many targets in this same time.
If you, DEVs turn on nos in TQ, probably many players stop playing or go afk and tell you "that was stupid think".
You turn off this for colonize higer class w-space. Now, you turn on this with telling us "we realize that's don't work" and you think ppl will be able to do this? That's paranoic...
@EDIT: Stop doing stupid thinks and nerfs w-space what is realy perfect at this moment. Try go to w-space class 5 with few ppl and try do any anomalies or magneto/radar plex. You realy don't know anythink about wormholes and thinking you are best...
DEV: "I know everthink about w-space"
Player: "Do you run any anomalies in any wormhole?"
DEV: "erm.... can you search me some w-space, i will try it"
Yes ffs... try do this now and as ppl said you, don't nerf our perfect world
This post literally gave me a headache. Sincerely hope the new eve gate forums will let me set individual people to "ignore" so their posts will be totally invisible. |
Brixer
Dai Dai Hai
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Posted - 2011.01.18 13:35:00 -
[139]
I think all rats should get a buff, and better bounty with it.
All you need to rat in 0.0 is a T1 cruiser. There is no fun in that, just boring grinding.
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Guns nButter
Stormlord Battleforce
Vanguard.
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Posted - 2011.01.30 22:08:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Brixer
I think all rats should get a buff, and better bounty with it.
All you need to rat in 0.0 is a T1 cruiser. There is no fun in that, just boring grinding.
That's why complexes exist. They're harder than asteroid belts. If that isn't hard enough, go into a wormhole. If that isn't hard enough, go into a level 5. 0.0 incursions after that. There's a helluva lot more to EVE than ratting in belts all day :P
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Canteen Charlie
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Posted - 2011.01.31 04:08:00 -
[141]
Well I was asked for an update and we just finished 6 hours on SISI. We have the C5's down now. No ship setup we made with any active mod was ever useful on the first wave. The first wave is really the only challenge as we only do these with carrier escalations to triage tank them at the start. The entire room neuts and every ship but the carrier is empty fast. We found using Maelstroms, Golems and Tengus all worked with seemingly similar results. It's all about buffer to survive the alpha strikes and allow time for the carrier to get on rep. We did them with 1 carrier 1 bs (sloooooow but works if you have enough ammo and stront) 2 bs's and 3 bs's. But all ships used no active mods at all except the carrier. Also, a Nid is a great repper but can't take the heat solo indefinitely even in Triage it will drop in about 30-40 mins if solo (which is pointless anyways as it can't attack). The neuting and dps after the first escalation was never a problem even with a dread escalation (as its only 6 bs's and a trigger ship from a previous wave). We never used Triage after this there wasn't a problem. Hope this is helpful.
I can't see and the coalition we belong to says even with tengus they bring a carrier to do the repping as the dps is over 15k with a full first wave and escalation. Unless of course you bring the carrier in after the wave is cleared save the trigger ship.
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