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Aerilis
Gallente
Percussive Diplomacy
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Posted - 2010.11.23 20:16:00 -
[121]
The release of T3s, the new scorpion, and the Primae got me really excited about the direction Eve was taking with its art. These ships were epic (some T3's looked silly, but I guess that's unavoidable considering it's modular design).
With the Revenant, it looks like they took several steps back. Seriously, WTF?
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Antithetos
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Posted - 2010.11.23 20:17:00 -
[122]
 Originally by: Kyra Felann
I've never met a more fecally-obsessed group of people since I was in elementary school
You lived a sterilized life. Have you ever heard of.. evangelical Christians?
Originally by: Kyra Felann
someone posted a bad screenshot of it that made it look bad
Some people saw it on the test server, the rest of us saw a video of it. It is bad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hxSyawcGjM
Originally by: Kyra Felann
They should probably change the color and then it'd look fine
Its the design itself that makes it look like a turd, not the color.
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Opertone
Caldari
Metalworks
Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2010.11.23 20:30:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Antithetos
Its the design itself that makes it look like a turd, not the color.
That's why you are supposed to think "Oh **** .. " when you see one. This is the trademark.
Sansha's SC, you know it's coming... Oh **** !
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Jennifer Starling
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.11.23 20:33:00 -
[124]
Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 23/11/2010 20:34:44
Originally by: De'Veldrin
Unlike you (apparently) I tend to judge people by what they do, rather than how they look. More or less the same way I pick ships.
That's a flawed comparison. If you have to choose a spouse you'd rather pick one that doesn't look like a misshaped crooked quasimodo with some weird growth on his/her body. Especially if you could have one that looks gorgeous with the same "stats".
Looks do matter.
And yes there's people who don't care about the looks of their ship, it may as well look like a paper bag or turd. I'm obviously not one of those people.
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Jennifer Starling
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.11.23 20:37:00 -
[125]
Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 23/11/2010 20:46:49
Originally by: De'Veldrin
If spaceships required flight surfaces to control their direction, I'd agree with you. Since they don't...I'm not sure what the point you're trying to make is.
Well have you ever seen a scientifically designed starship that isn't symmetrical?
Besides, resistances that are not spread evenly across your ship will cause it to spin around it axes or be torn into pieces, it's only in (semi-)vacuum that flight surfaces don¦t influence your direction because there's no resistance.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.11.23 20:49:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Jennifer Starling
Well have you ever seen a scientifically designed starship that isn't symmetrical?
Pretty much all of them that weren't designed for atmospheric duty.
Quote:
Besides, resistances that are not spread evenly across your ship will cause it to spin around it axes, it's only in (semi-)vacuum that flight surfaces don¦t influence your direction because there's no resistance.
àso in other words: there's no reason for spaceships to have control surfaces or to be symmetrical.
Quote:
Looks do matter.
No. Design matters, or more accurately, art direction. A design style that is centred on the concept of "utility" means that "looks" becomes a non-issue. ISS, Skylab, Gallileoà they were all fugly pieces of tech, because they were built to work, not to look pretty.
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Jennifer Starling
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.11.23 20:57:00 -
[127]
Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 23/11/2010 20:59:13
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Jennifer Starling
Well have you ever seen a scientifically designed starship that isn't symmetrical?
Pretty much all of them that weren't designed for atmospheric duty.
Quote:
Besides, resistances that are not spread evenly across your ship will cause it to spin around it axes, it's only in (semi-)vacuum that flight surfaces don¦t influence your direction because there's no resistance.
àso in other words: there's no reason for spaceships to have control surfaces or to be symmetrical.
You missed the gas clouds and PI part of the argument?
Originally by: Tippia
Quote:
Looks do matter.
No. Design matters, or more accurately, art direction. A design style that is centred on the concept of "utility" means that "looks" becomes a non-issue. ISS, Skylab, Gallileoà they were all fugly pieces of tech, because they were built to work, not to look pretty.
Well since "looks" and "graphical style" both refer to visial aspects I think we're talking about the same.
Funny you quote all those symmertrical machines btw .. ^^
EVE isn't reality, it's a game. CCP could make the spaceships look like icecream and hamburgers and still have the same stats. So I still wonder why the ships are deliberatley made ugly - and I don't believe I'm the only one what that's concerned.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.11.23 21:09:00 -
[128]
Edited by: Tippia on 23/11/2010 21:11:55
Originally by: Jennifer Starling
You missed the gas clouds and PI part of the argument?
PI doesn't mean you enter the atmosphere ù we have these orbiting customs offices, you know. The gas clouds bit assumes the clouds are dense enough to be of any consequence ù they obviously aren't.
No, I didn't miss them ù I assumed you had already seen the explanations to why they don't provide any kind of argument.
Quote:
Well since "looks" and "graphical style" both refer to visial aspects I think we're talking about the same.
No, it's not the same. Art design is about adopting a particular arc of development and archetypal sense of how things will be put together (and why)
Quote:
Funny you quote all those symmertrical machines btw .. ^^
Which ones? None of the ones I listed were symmetrical, you know. Go look them upà
Quote:
EVE isn't reality, it's a game. CCP could make the spaceships look like icecream and hamburgers and still have the same stats. So I still wonder why the ships are deliberatley made ugly - and I don't believe I'm the only one what that's concerned.
Because that's the art direction: Caldari don't care about looks, but about utility. This is what defines them. Thus we get wierd-looking ships. Minmatar is the same, but they had to scrounge for parts, rather than use mass-produced prefab units decided through bribery and corporate incompetence committee, so they glued together whatever bits they could get their hands on. Amarr is about opulence. If it has to look wierd in order to tell the subcreatures that "we are superior and build whatever the "#& we want, now bow down!" then so be it. And the Gallente are just wierd to begin withà
The design tells us something about the races ù it does what art design is supposed to do (and "being pretty" isn't a part of it).
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Jennifer Starling
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.11.23 21:18:00 -
[129]
Originally by: Tippia
The gas clouds bit assumes the clouds are dense enough to be of any consequence ù they obviously aren't.
There "obviously" aren't because the ships "obviously" don't explode or get uncontrollable?
Well I think we still can use some more prettier spaceships!!
Bring them on!! 
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Antithetos
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Posted - 2010.11.23 22:05:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Tippia
Because that's the art direction: Caldari don't care about looks, but about utility. This is what defines them. Thus we get wierd-looking ships. Minmatar is the same, but they had to scrounge for parts, rather than use mass-produced prefab units decided through bribery and corporate incompetence committee, so they glued together whatever bits they could get their hands on. Amarr is about opulence. If it has to look wierd in order to tell the subcreatures that "we are superior and build whatever the "#& we want, now bow down!" then so be it. And the Gallente are just wierd to begin withà
Agreed on every word, but everybody seems to forget something : good design =/= pretty design.
As i already stated in this thread, the Tengu is a good design without being a pretty design. It has all the "ugly" industrial characteristics of the Caldari, but it is still an amazingly designed ship. The Hurricane is "prettier" than a Tengu. You wouldn't take your Caldari girlfriend out in a Tengu if you had a Hurricane in your hangar right? (unless she only cares about your wallet)
Now once you understand the difference between good and pretty design, and ignore all the kids in love with the damn symmetry, this whole conversation will start going somewhere. The Ferox and the Tengu are equally "ugly" and both are completely aligned with the Caldari aesthetics. Yet the Ferox is really bad designed compared to the Tengu.
...
Why the majority of the people in this thread are still talking about functionality and character!?
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Sorvath
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Posted - 2010.11.23 22:31:00 -
[131]
Quote:
The release of T3s, the new scorpion, and the Primae got me really excited about the direction Eve was taking with its art. These ships were epic (some T3's looked silly, but I guess that's unavoidable considering it's modular design). With the Revenant, it looks like they took several steps back. Seriously, WTF?
This 100%, especially the Primae which In my own personal subjective opinion is honest to god the best looking ship in eve right now. God I wish there was a combat version... ;_;
Damn would I love an update to the Gallene lineup (brutix, imicus, dominix etc) |
Ivan Tesla
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2010.11.23 23:21:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Jennifer Starling
Originally by: Diesel47
Cool looking ships please.
Fix caldari ships. The MOA needs a redesign, the BLACKBIRD needs a redesign, even the raven looks crap.
Minmitar is supposed to look like garbage, no need to change them.
Gallente can use some help too. Amarr ships are fine however.
My suggestions:
Moa: complete redesign needed
Blackbird: could use some polish
Caracal: could look better too
Manticore: Just make it symmetical!!
Omen: remove the growth on the right side
Inquisitor: space maggot, complete redesign needed
Bellicose: complete redesign needed
Probe: make it look like something?
Slasher: can it look less like a very ugly insect?
Maller/Vexor: ugly bulky designs but some people like it
Thorax: make it symmetrical
I don't know why everyone dislikes the Bellicose design. Its the only Minmatar cruiser I'll use while helping a cousin speed through missions - stats and fitting wise obviously could be more useful but looks wise - much better than the other Minmatar cruisers. Needs an update only.
Same with the Caracal, its fine :)
---------------------------------------------
Francis Wolcott: "I am a sinner that does not expect forgiveness. But I am not a government official."
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Ivan Tesla
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2010.11.24 00:55:00 -
[133]
Edited by: Ivan Tesla on 24/11/2010 00:57:35
Originally by: Sorvath
Quote:
The release of T3s, the new scorpion, and the Primae got me really excited about the direction Eve was taking with its art. These ships were epic (some T3's looked silly, but I guess that's unavoidable considering it's modular design). With the Revenant, it looks like they took several steps back. Seriously, WTF?
This 100%, especially the Primae which In my own personal subjective opinion is honest to god the best looking ship in eve right now. God I wish there was a combat version... ;_;
Damn would I love an update to the Gallene lineup (brutix, imicus, dominix etc)
+1
Add some more armour sections etc to beef it up some more and hey presto - combat Primae.
I don't think there is much denying that there are very ugly ships in EVE from its inception.. even if it supposedly goes with the history of the races and the issues and design ethics making their racial ships - its been a long enough time now for them to maybe realize a GOOD change of pace and make the ships more attractive.
I think EVE just suffered from weird ship designitis and even though EVE got bigger and stronger it, instead of getting rid of those ugly hairy moles and misshapened teeth, the deformities were embraced.. that mole hair was groomed and a bow put through it and the misshapened teeth, well they were now gold plated and polished lol
Time for a cup of tea
---------------------------------------------
Francis Wolcott: "I am a sinner that does not expect forgiveness. But I am not a government official."
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Antithetos
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Posted - 2010.11.24 02:33:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Sorvath
This 100%, especially the Primae which In my own personal subjective opinion is honest to god the best looking ship in eve right now. God I wish there was a combat version... ;_;
Damn would I love an update to the Gallene lineup (brutix, imicus, dominix etc)
Opinions bro, how do they work?!
I think Primae looks like a playmobil, and the Brutix is one of the best looking ships in EVE.
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Ivan Tesla
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2010.11.24 03:28:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Antithetos
Originally by: Sorvath
This 100%, especially the Primae which In my own personal subjective opinion is honest to god the best looking ship in eve right now. God I wish there was a combat version... ;_;
Damn would I love an update to the Gallene lineup (brutix, imicus, dominix etc)
Opinions bro, how do they work?!
I think Primae looks like a playmobil, and the Brutix is one of the best looking ships in EVE.
My favourite will always be the Drake, just want it upgrade to the polish of Primae/Scorpion. I loved playmobil when I was young :P
---------------------------------------------
Francis Wolcott: "I am a sinner that does not expect forgiveness. But I am not a government official."
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Tarasina
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Posted - 2010.11.24 04:35:00 -
[136]
Edited by: Tarasina on 24/11/2010 04:36:47
Originally by: Ivan Tesla
Originally by: Jennifer Starling
Originally by: Diesel47
Cool looking ships please.
Fix caldari ships. The MOA needs a redesign, the BLACKBIRD needs a redesign, even the raven looks crap.
Minmitar is supposed to look like garbage, no need to change them.
Gallente can use some help too. Amarr ships are fine however.
My suggestions:
Moa: complete redesign needed
Blackbird: could use some polish
Caracal: could look better too
Manticore: Just make it symmetical!!
Omen: remove the growth on the right side
Inquisitor: space maggot, complete redesign needed
Bellicose: complete redesign needed
Probe: make it look like something?
Slasher: can it look less like a very ugly insect?
Maller/Vexor: ugly bulky designs but some people like it
Thorax: make it symmetrical
I don't know why everyone dislikes the Bellicose design. Its the only Minmatar cruiser I'll use while helping a cousin speed through missions - stats and fitting wise obviously could be more useful but looks wise - much better than the other Minmatar cruisers. Needs an update only.
Same with the Caracal, its fine :)
Goddam, the Bellicose is butt-ugly. Looks like a dog with 2 legs. Kind of the same as maelstrom while mael looks like a dog with huge ears. UGLIER ships you have to LOOK FOR.
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Ivan Tesla
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2010.11.24 04:49:00 -
[137]
Yeah I got that that many really don't like the Bellicose :)
I really don't like the Rupture, its like the stern of an old sail ship but is missing the main body of the ship, the sails.. give me at least one big sail on it FFS!
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Francis Wolcott: "I am a sinner that does not expect forgiveness. But I am not a government official."
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Kireiina
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Posted - 2010.11.24 06:11:00 -
[138]
You obviously don't need symmetrical ships or flight surfaces on space-ships. However from an aesthetics point of view ships that have clean lines, good profiles and draw from existing fighting craft or predatory influences tend to look much more "bad-ass". The Blackbird is an excellent example because it just comes across as a "blob" and that's not very interesting. On the other hand the new scorpion model looks bad ass because it is symetrical, has a strong profile and a predatory motif. It's also got a more interesting surface than the blackbirds "grey boxes stuck together". The Moa line is the same, it comes across as a grey box with stuff stuck onto it randomly.
I mean having a cultural "we don't care about aesthetics" line is great but don't expect the players to appreciate designing intentionally ugly ships. It could just as easily have been explained that engineering efficiency means you don't have off-balance ships because it's much easier to manufacture symmetrical craft.
Thankfully Caldari ships with the exception of the decent looking drake are very limited in PvP (fix rails!) so it's rarely an issue.
The minmatar ships are generally alright by comparison, though few of them get a "whoa, that looks great" reaction (the Hurricane will always be sweet looking, the rupture just looks like a power tool).
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Orivanna
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Posted - 2010.11.24 06:31:00 -
[139]
Those who talk about not needing symmetric ships in space:
How hard did you fail basic physics?
Asymmetric distribution of mass makes it extremely and unnecessarily difficult to balance thrust... especially when you are concerned about accurate ship control.
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Vertisce Soritenshi
O.W.N. Corp
OWN Alliance
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Posted - 2010.11.24 06:39:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Orivanna
Those who talk about not needing symmetric ships in space:
How hard did you fail basic physics?
Asymmetric distribution of mass makes it extremely and unnecessarily difficult to balance thrust... especially when you are concerned about accurate ship control.
LMAO! Your space physics fail.
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Jennifer Starling
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.11.24 08:12:00 -
[141]
Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 24/11/2010 08:14:59
Originally by: Orivanna
Those who talk about not needing symmetric ships in space:
How hard did you fail basic physics?
Asymmetric distribution of mass makes it extremely and unnecessarily difficult to balance thrust... especially when you are concerned about accurate ship control.
Equal distribution of resistance across your ship (like in an atmosphere) causes your ship to stay balanced, hence aerodynamics. Another example is using a sail - it has only use when there's wind/air - if there would be no air it wouldn't have any use. If there's no resistance (like in space) symmetry isn't needed as there's no resistance, there's no molecules colliding with your ship's surface.
Now to the ships of EVE. Why would you want to build ships that can't fly in atmospheres and are very dangerous to fly in gas clouds or nebulae where the atomic/molecular density is high enough to seriously destroy your ship? Say your ship is heavily damaged and you want to land on a planetary base on an earth like planet - you can't if you fly an asymmetrical ship. Your enemies flee into a dense gas cloud or planetary surface - you can't chase them in an asymmetrical ship.
Asymmetry restricts your ship to (sub)vaccuum space, why would you want that, especially military ships?
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Anne Arqui
Minmatar
Diamonds in the Rough Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.11.24 10:43:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Budrick3
Edited by: Budrick3 on 21/11/2010 03:45:39
Edited by: Budrick3 on 21/11/2010 03:29:38
It boggles my mind that with the immense popularity of Eve that CCP can not hire some good concept artists and 3d engineers to make a decent looking ships within the Eve Universe! I mean holy crap! 3/4 of the ships in Eve look like they spent 30 minutes designing them, and another 30 skinning them.
CCP, if you want to get gamers excited again about the game, redesign most of your ships! Did you see how excited your community got when you re-designed the Scorpion? Imagine your sales if you re-ignited that excitement of wanting to fly a particular ship? There are 15 Year old kids on deviant art with better concept art than your entire team. Get your crap straight.
/signed!!! The prettier, the merrier!
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De'Veldrin
Minmatar
Green-Core
The Obsidian Legion
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Posted - 2010.11.24 13:48:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Jennifer Starling
Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 23/11/2010 20:46:49
Originally by: De'Veldrin
If spaceships required flight surfaces to control their direction, I'd agree with you. Since they don't...I'm not sure what the point you're trying to make is.
Well have you ever seen a scientifically designed starship that isn't symmetrical designed to pass through an atmosphere on it's way to and from space?
Fixed your post. Ponder on that a while and I think you'll get where I was going with that.
--Vel
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De'Veldrin
Minmatar
Green-Core
The Obsidian Legion
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Posted - 2010.11.24 13:52:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Orivanna
Those who talk about not needing symmetric ships in space:
How hard did you fail basic physics?
Asymmetric distribution of mass makes it extremely and unnecessarily difficult to balance thrust... especially when you are concerned about accurate ship control.
Asymmetric design != asymmetric mass (at least not necessarily).
You can also balance it by putting the larger engine on the heavier side. There are these things called computers. They're pretty good at doing calculations quickly. Calculations like "How much thrust should I deliver from each engine, based on the capabilities of each engine, to balance the thrust across the entire frame in the direction of travel and keep the ship from spinning into oblivion?"
--Vel
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De'Veldrin
Minmatar
Green-Core
The Obsidian Legion
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Posted - 2010.11.24 14:00:00 -
[145]
Originally by: Jennifer Starling
Asymmetry restricts your ship to (sub)vaccuum space, why would you want that, especially military ships?
Why would I care when none of the ships I'm interested in chasing can enter an atmosphere anyway? If CCP decides to introduce planetary flight, I might care, but for now - meh. It's a non-argument.
Also, you can overcome a lack of aerodynamics with the application of more thrust (up to a point anyway).
--Vel
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Ranger 1
Amarr
Dynaverse Corporation
Sodalitas XX
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Posted - 2010.11.24 16:00:00 -
[146]
People are using a lot of terms loosely in this conversation.
From a design stand point the Sansha Supercarrier is a series of spheres contained within a organically sculpted superstructure. From a design point of view this is extremely efficient and well suited to handle significant differences in internal/external pressure as well as stress and/or impact from any direction. These same principals are used in deep sea submersibles today for similar reasons.
Aesthetically speaking it is not a pleasant looking ship. Then again, it's not supposed to be. People who continually mouth meme's about it looking like fecal matter need to take a long, hard look at the Ragnarok before they push that argument too far. The Ragnarok looks like something that a constipated nun on a high starch diet struggled with for a week before finally being able to squeeze out. In comparison the Sansha Supercarrier looks sleek and functional.
If you have an obsession with 13yr old style biological humor, perhaps idolizing Cheech and Chong as the ultimate in sophisticated humor, at least direct it at the right ship.
=====
If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you. |
Borun Tal
Minmatar
Prophet Rising
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Posted - 2010.11.24 16:24:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Budrick3
I recently had hope for CCP when they released the t3 ships. I mean those are some cool looking ships, but all that got flushed down the toilet with there latest sansha mother turd. It looks like someone literally took a dump, and butt hole hairs came off in the process of squeezing one out.
So who exactly is holding a gun to your head, forcing your to pay $15 US per month to play the game? Don't like it? WoW calls you home...
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Antithetos
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Posted - 2010.11.24 18:45:00 -
[148]
I love all the scientifically literate people in this thread.
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Tarasina
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Posted - 2010.11.24 18:48:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Borun Tal
Originally by: Budrick3
I recently had hope for CCP when they released the t3 ships. I mean those are some cool looking ships, but all that got flushed down the toilet with there latest sansha mother turd. It looks like someone literally took a dump, and butt hole hairs came off in the process of squeezing one out.
So who exactly is holding a gun to your head, forcing your to pay $15 US per month to play the game? Don't like it? WoW calls you home...
If everyone thought like you, there would be no improvements, no expansions, no nothing. You'd still be playing a buggy mining-sim.
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Antithetos
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Posted - 2010.11.24 19:19:00 -
[150]
Originally by: Ranger 1
From a design stand point the Sansha Supercarrier is a series of spheres contained within a organically sculpted superstructure.
That's exactly what we're saying. There's something... organic about the super carrier.
Originally by: Ranger 1
If you have an obsession with 13yr old style biological humor,
What exactly makes you think that anyone is trying to be humorous when pointing out the similarities between the ship and a turd? We're just being honest. The situation is indeed funny, but not deliberately.
Originally by: Ranger 1
at least direct it at the right ship.
Takes a stretching of the imagination to picture a Ragnarok being squeezed out of a digestive system. The Revenant though, takes you there naturally, because of its organic form that you mentioned. The organic form that the Ragnarok is lacking. So even if this is indeed bad humor, it is directed to the right ship.
Also, i think the Ragnarok is well designed. Honestly.
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