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Meridius	Posted - 2005.01.11 19:52:00 - [31] Nice convenient graph comparing a tier 2 battleship to a specialized tier 1. Why can't my geddon/apoc do EW as good as a scorp? NERF NERF Small minded goon. How about you propose to bring up the 800mm/neutron rather then call for a nerf. A nerf punishes those that have trained large pulse specialization, which takes a very long time. If you bring up the 800 and neutron, the megapulse users will not get **ed off, instead they will be neutral while projectile/hybrid users will be very happy. So lets see the logic here, we can make one large group **ed off or we can have one large group remain the same while making two other groups very happy. I wonder what is the more logical choice ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2005.01.11 19:55:00 - [32] Originally by: JoCool Mega Pulses do have too much range imo. Their optimal should get adjusted to 20km. With skills maxed they would get 25km optimal, 12.5km with MFs. That makes things dull and boring. Once again, i would like to see a constructive solution brought up to raise the projectiles/neutrons in a unique way. ________________________________________________________
Rexy	Posted - 2005.01.11 19:59:00 - [33] Originally by: Meridius A nerf punishes those that have trained large pulse specialization, which takes a very long time. leaving stuff broken punishes the people investing in stuff like large projectile specialisations... just the way you look at it. All i want for cristmas is a typhoon with launcher rof bonus :)
DarkMatters	Posted - 2005.01.11 20:00:00 - [34] Edited by: DarkMatters on 11/01/2005 20:10:22 Originally by: JoCool Mega Pulses do have too much range imo. Their optimal should get adjusted to 20km. With skills maxed they would get 25km optimal, 12.5km with MFs. megapulse = amarrs best close range gun, lower damage then other guns lower tracking then the other guns higher range then the other guns. what would you suggest lower damage, worst tracking, and the same range. any decrease in range must be made up with a damage increase. Edit: your right in away, megapulse can do nearly short range damage at medium ranges, but slashing 50% off the range of the guns and leaving it at that cant be balanced. that extra range is all it has over the other short range guns
Grimpak	Posted - 2005.01.11 20:00:00 - [35] Originally by: Meridius Originally by: JoCool Mega Pulses do have too much range imo. Their optimal should get adjusted to 20km. With skills maxed they would get 25km optimal, 12.5km with MFs. That makes things dull and boring. Once again, i would like to see a constructive solution brought up to raise the projectiles/neutrons in a unique way. hmm... do some balancing in the 'geddon then? it looks the most friendly option tbh... ------------------- Quote: Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage
Caya	Posted - 2005.01.11 20:01:00 - [36] Originally by: Kaylona Tso maybe all the pie need to stfu for a moment and get constructive... amarrian pigs... but thats besides the point. lets not talk about the fact guns can be countered please. Lets talk about how they perform on race bonus ships and non race bonus ships only The megapulse is good _on_any_BS_ with decent skills. It is even better on amarrian ships. Its better on a Tempest and Typhoon than projectiles. They are the replacement of the once UBER named 720mm howies. They can go down to what... 6km and up to 60km no problem with any tracking or hit to miss ration where no other gun can claim that. Shod off you laser lovers who want the game to be fixed. Its 10 times harder to fix the game than to bring something back into comparison. You hade your months of fVkin fun and everyone with a brain uses them and we see the lack of the rest. You just want to have fun while they fix it and let everone else go without until then or be converts... I think that mentality needs to be kept in the roleplaying sector of the forum and not a stats sector... because your coming off as a true ammarian skin bag PIE for ever post i have read about megapulses... so just STFU. Why do i know many decent PvPers who use also other guns, not only Mega pulses? Even i am using other large lasers too. They r good, but they dont unbalance the game at all. Also, we r talking about future, about changes comming and i doubt u can see the future.
Meridius	Posted - 2005.01.11 20:10:00 - [37] Originally by: Rexy Originally by: Meridius A nerf punishes those that have trained large pulse specialization, which takes a very long time. leaving stuff broken punishes the people investing in stuff like large projectile specialisations... just the way you look at it. Why don't you read lower a bit, you will see that i suggest raising projectiles/hybrids ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2005.01.11 20:14:00 - [38] Originally by: Grimpak hmm... do some balancing in the 'geddon then? it looks the most friendly option tbh... No it won't. Why don't you balance the scorp, it can take any bs out in a 1 on 1? It's ew output cannot be matched by any other ship. Nerf Tier 1's are meant to be specialized, the geddon is a no defense damage dealer that can be countered with a bloody cruiser ffs. ________________________________________________________
Antic	Posted - 2005.01.11 20:15:00 - [39] Edited by: Antic on 11/01/2005 20:19:09 The argument that its the type of ship the Megapulses are fitted on that make out their total dominance right now isnt entirely correct. Any battleship not using missiles wich arent even geared out for lasers can and will use megapulses and the lasers will have better performance than the ships "intended" weapons. Megapulses got superior Tracking at all ranges, superior range to all other weapons and to add to this they have one of the highest damage tresholds. Theres no other weapon in teh game except missiles that come even close to this all around superiority. And that is no matter wich ship its fitted on. Are you seeing an apoc or a mega fitted with Projectiles? no. But theres plenty of non amarr ships with megapulses as its quickly turning into the only choise. The debate that the scoprion is good at EW and similar motivates why the megapulse are superior to everything else is totaly irrelevant. We are talking a weapon here thats superior to anything despite wich ship its used on. Now if megapulses were weakened so they werent as uber for an "end of all ends" weapon for all races then that would be balanced up by the amarr ships already existing bonuses. This would mean not having an already overpowered weapon amplified further as it is now. Its the weapon that needs a nudge downwards. Not the amarr ships.
DarkMatters	Posted - 2005.01.11 20:18:00 - [40] Edited by: DarkMatters on 11/01/2005 20:20:21 Edited by: DarkMatters on 11/01/2005 20:18:35 "Megapulses got superior Tracking at all ranges, superior range to all other weapons and to add to this they have one of the highest damage tresholds." 1) lowest tracking of the best of each short range gun 2) highest range to the other short range guns, not all guns 3) the guns dont take damage yes i know what you mean 4) lowest damage of the short range guns at short range "Now if megapulses were weakened so they werent as uber for an "end of all ends" weapon for all races then that would be balanced up by the amarr ships bonuses. Not having an already overpowered weapon amplified further as it is now." 1) out of crusers and battleships 2 ships have these bonuses
Rexy	Posted - 2005.01.11 20:22:00 - [41] Originally by: DarkMatters 4) lowest damage of the short range guns at short range yes but then it proceeds to outdamage pretty much anything up til 30-35km out at least , at least that's what i make of the presented graphs. All i want for cristmas is a typhoon with launcher rof bonus :)
Caya	Posted - 2005.01.11 20:24:00 - [42] Originally by: Antic Edited by: Antic on 11/01/2005 20:19:09 The argument that its the type of ship the Megapulses are fitted on that make out their total dominance right now isnt entirely correct. Any battleship not using missiles wich arent even geared out for lasers can and will use megapulses and the lasers will have better performance than the ships "intended" weapons. Megapulses got superior Tracking at all ranges, superior range to all other weapons and to add to this they have one of the highest damage tresholds. Theres no other weapon in teh game except missiles that come even close to this all around superiority. And that is no matter wich ship its fitted on. Are you seeing an apoc or a mega fitted with Projectiles? no. But theres plenty of non amarr ships with megapulses as its quickly turning into the only choise. The debate that the scoprion is good at EW and similar motivates why the megapulse are superior to everything else is totaly irrelevant. We are talking a weapon here thats superior to anything despite wich ship its used on. Now if megapulses were weakened so they werent as uber for an "end of all ends" weapon for all races then that would be balanced up by the amarr ships already existing bonuses. This would mean not having an already overpowered weapon amplified further as it is now. Its the weapon that needs a nudge downwards. Not the amarr ships. LOL. Sorry, but idea of meeting Megathron with mega pulses or even Tempest with mega pulses ... Well, i believe there must be few such people there.
j0sephine	Posted - 2005.01.11 20:28:00 - [43] "No it won't. Why don't you balance the scorp, it can take any bs out in a 1 on 1? It's ew output cannot be matched by any other ship. Nerf" ... Scorpion has firepower to take out anything bigger than a cruiser before it goes down itself? o.O;
Meridius	Posted - 2005.01.11 20:32:00 - [44] Originally by: j0sephine "No it won't. Why don't you balance the scorp, it can take any bs out in a 1 on 1? It's ew output cannot be matched by any other ship. Nerf" ... Scorpion has firepower to take out anything bigger than a cruiser before it goes down itself? o.O; Hard to shoot at a scorp when you're jammed. So erm, yes ________________________________________________________
j0sephine	Posted - 2005.01.11 20:38:00 - [45] "Hard to shoot at a scorp when you're jammed. So erm, yes" Aye, but that's not what i meant... jamming the guy is one thing, breaking their tank so you actually kill them is another -.^ (and nosferatu work both ways, and put you within range of the nasty drones to boot... and that's not even mentioning those nasty ships with FoF missile launchers)
Phoenus	Posted - 2005.01.11 20:52:00 - [46] Meh Megapulses aren't overpowered, it's just projectiles were so bad. Yes, Megapulse is probably the most effective mid-range gun out of the entire lot - but it uses cap, lots of cap. Try running 7 Megapulses sustained on an Armageddon - you WILL run into major cap problems, and any setup where you have 7 megapulses and a semi-decent tank means you have to turn off your guns to have any kind of chance of living. Megapulses as a gun are fine - stick them on an Apoc and you will see. The only reason MPulses do so much damage is the (as pointed out) Armageddon's RoF bonus. They should just be left alone, they are fine atm (and I use all weapons, including Hybrid and Projectile). Learn different setups to counter the damage they output, e.g. anti-laser tanking, or, easier, ew. Phoenus Enlightened Incorporated
Luc Boye	Posted - 2005.01.11 20:54:00 - [47] One more thing, all of you amarr lubers keep comparing geddon with megathron, for fairness sake, compare geddon to dominix, and apoc with megathron. -- 2004.12.29 23:33:40combatMining Pollution Cloud hits you, doing 140.0 damage.
Luc Boye	Posted - 2005.01.11 20:56:00 - [48] Edited by: Luc Boye on 11/01/2005 20:58:45 Originally by: DarkMatters megapulse = amarrs best close range gun, lower damage then other guns lower tracking then the other guns higher range then the other guns. what would you suggest lower damage, worst tracking, and the same range. any decrease in range must be made up with a damage increase. Edit: your right in away, megapulse can do nearly short range damage at medium ranges, but slashing 50% off the range of the guns and leaving it at that cant be balanced. that extra range is all it has over the other short range guns Actually mega pulse is not close range gun, its medium range gun. If you can rip someone apart from 30km thats not close range. Having to mwd 20km to get under 5km is close range. Originally by: Phoenus Meh Megapulses aren't overpowered, it's just projectiles were so bad. Yes, Megapulse is probably the most effective mid-range gun out of the entire lot - but it uses cap, lots of cap. Try running 7 Megapulses sustained on an Armageddon - you WILL run into major cap problems, and any setup where you have 7 megapulses and a semi-decent tank means you have to turn off your guns to have any kind of chance of living. They still take less cap then blasters -- 2004.12.29 23:33:40combatMining Pollution Cloud hits you, doing 140.0 damage.
DarkMatters	Posted - 2005.01.11 20:58:00 - [49] Edited by: DarkMatters on 11/01/2005 21:07:40 Originally by: Luc Boye One more thing, all of you amarr lubers keep comparing geddon with megathron, for fairness sake, compare geddon to dominix, and apoc with megathron. the dom and thypoon are good allrounds, the apoc and scorp and highly specailsed ships. all us laser lovers are comparing the mega with the apoc. why wouldnt we? with the apoc look at that graph (look at the geddon line peak and go down 20%), apoc megapulse only begins to outdamage a mega at 13km ish. show me our short range gun if its not the megapulse
Hakera	Posted - 2005.01.11 21:10:00 - [50] Edited by: Hakera on 11/01/2005 21:11:05 Originally by: DarkMatters 1) lowest tracking of the best of each short range gun by stats alone yes, but not true, the optimal range is what matters, the fact that most battles take place between 30-60k fits in nicely with the pulse and usually gunnary skills/tracking mods to further boost that range making it a more effective weapon overall at great range with minimal cap use and the best dps. Quote: 4) lowest damage of the short range guns at short range again not true, your not factoring in RoF with bonuses. If its such a poor weapon why is everyone using them? Dumbledore - Eve-I.com
DarkMatters	Posted - 2005.01.11 21:16:00 - [51] Edited by: DarkMatters on 11/01/2005 21:17:17 Hakera, the very graph you posted shows it has a lower DPS then the other guns. Hakera, yes the do have the lowest tracking, yes that what the stats say, yes the other guns users have the same skills, mods as they rest saying no they dont, because i dont want them to be, dosnt make it true. EDIT: hes just edited that to be completly diffrent. to answer the changed post, YES even with ROF from the grddon as show in the graph you have posted megapulse still has lower damage at close range. never mind us poor apoc users with 25% less firepower
Hakera	Posted - 2005.01.11 21:17:00 - [52] you are looking at the purple line yes? the one that 4 dps lower than the meagthron with neutrons and 25k more range - it looks to be rather higher than the rest of the curves. Dumbledore - Eve-I.com
DarkMatters	Posted - 2005.01.11 21:19:00 - [53] Edited by: DarkMatters on 11/01/2005 21:22:21 yes and i see the red, green and yellow lines above it. i suggest you check you eyes. so our guns work well at medium range, check thoes other graphs in the sticked thread. our guns are outperformed at close range by the other close range guns, and out performed at long range by the other long range. known as balance.
Hakera	Posted - 2005.01.11 21:21:00 - [54] Edited by: Hakera on 11/01/2005 21:21:43 Originally by: DarkMatters yes and i see the red, green and yellow lines above it. i suggest you check you eyes well I must be blind if barring the neutron peak which is a very small peak, the rest are not above the pulse. look harder at those lines and tell me if that purple curve is lower than the rest! Dumbledore - Eve-I.com
Luc Boye	Posted - 2005.01.11 21:22:00 - [55] Tactical implication of optimal at 5km and optimal at 30km can't be overlooked, imho. -- 2004.12.29 23:33:40combatMining Pollution Cloud hits you, doing 140.0 damage.
Rexy	Posted - 2005.01.11 21:23:00 - [56] i'm with hakera on this one :P, after 10km it's pretty much obvious, mega pulse for the win :), and if i look at fi 1400/1200 at 30km a mega pulse, so called short range still outdamages those. All i want for cristmas is a typhoon with launcher rof bonus :)
DarkMatters	Posted - 2005.01.11 21:25:00 - [57] Edited by: DarkMatters on 11/01/2005 21:31:05 Edited by: DarkMatters on 11/01/2005 21:25:25 HAKERA THAT PUPLE (PINK!) LINE IS THE LOWEST ON THERE, i hope you can read the bolded text i would just like to add, again take the peak on the purple line and reduce it by 20% and that Apocs are using.
Rexy	Posted - 2005.01.11 21:28:00 - [58] darkmatters, the peak of the purple is the second highest and by far higher after 10km. only blasters outdamge on them on their respective optimal, wich is 5km. wich is imo a huge difference. All i want for cristmas is a typhoon with launcher rof bonus :)
Hakera	Posted - 2005.01.11 21:30:00 - [59] Originally by: DarkMatters Edited by: DarkMatters on 11/01/2005 21:25:25 HAKERA THAT PUPLE (PINK!) CURVE IS THE LOWEST ON THERE, i hope you can read the bolded text1 i give up Dumbledore - Eve-I.com
Rexy	Posted - 2005.01.11 21:32:00 - [60] what that graph also doesnt show is that it's not worth switching the em for any other ammo bar PP because the difference in range is very very small, but the loss in damage is very noticable. probably the same for blasters. those megapulses can do the same , but they exchange damge for a considerable increase in range. All i want for cristmas is a typhoon with launcher rof bonus :)

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