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Lorek Kelden
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Posted - 2003.06.29 20:09:00 -
[1]
Why is it that i get only 0.0002 raise with concord for killing pirates now if i want to attack a player or convoy I can only do it after every 500 pirates?
They need to make it at least every 20 pirates or lower the amount they take when you attack a player or convoy.
Originally i thought that there would be no penalties in 0.5 systems and below.
Anyone have any idea's or info that could help.
Edited by: Lorek Kelden on 29/06/2003 20:31:22
May the Spirit of New Eden shine brightly on your path. |
Lorek Kelden
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Posted - 2003.06.29 20:09:00 -
[2]
Why is it that i get only 0.0002 raise with concord for killing pirates now if i want to attack a player or convoy I can only do it after every 500 pirates?
They need to make it at least every 20 pirates or lower the amount they take when you attack a player or convoy.
Originally i thought that there would be no penalties in 0.5 systems and below.
Anyone have any idea's or info that could help.
Edited by: Lorek Kelden on 29/06/2003 20:31:22
May the Spirit of New Eden shine brightly on your path. |
Mustafa Ken'Yova
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Posted - 2003.06.29 21:52:00 -
[3]
The whole point for the nerf was so that players like you, can't do what you say you want to do. Letting player pirates "get off easy" by killing massive amount of NPC pirates to gain very high security levels and then letting them prey on new players with little repercussion is un-balanced; as such it was fixed.
...... |
Mustafa Ken'Yova
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Posted - 2003.06.29 21:52:00 -
[4]
The whole point for the nerf was so that players like you, can't do what you say you want to do. Letting player pirates "get off easy" by killing massive amount of NPC pirates to gain very high security levels and then letting them prey on new players with little repercussion is un-balanced; as such it was fixed.
...... |
Setec
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Posted - 2003.06.30 01:00:00 -
[5]
It was over-fixed. I agree that it was too easy to raise security status by a lot. Now it is absurdly hard.
I have a 9.8 status right now. Know how much I get from killing a 50k bounty angel cruiser? 0.0000. Know how much I get for killing 50k bounty angel cruisers all weekend? 0.0000. Know how much I'd get for killing 50k bounty angel cruisers for the rest of my life? 0.0000.
Slow improvement is one thing... literally impossible improvement is another. :P
___________________________________________
Space Invaders website: http://www.si-corp.net |
Setec
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Posted - 2003.06.30 01:00:00 -
[6]
It was over-fixed. I agree that it was too easy to raise security status by a lot. Now it is absurdly hard.
I have a 9.8 status right now. Know how much I get from killing a 50k bounty angel cruiser? 0.0000. Know how much I get for killing 50k bounty angel cruisers all weekend? 0.0000. Know how much I'd get for killing 50k bounty angel cruisers for the rest of my life? 0.0000.
Slow improvement is one thing... literally impossible improvement is another. :P
___________________________________________
Space Invaders website: http://www.si-corp.net |
Ends
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Posted - 2003.06.30 01:36:00 -
[7]
Why in the world should a PKer like you be able to have nearly the highest rating possible Setec? You shouldn't. Killing + Stealing = NOT A HIGH SEC RATING.
What is it with these people that screw others over then expect there to be no repercussions for it? I genuinely can't think of something more stupid than people who like to hurt others and expecting no punishment for it, as though they think they have a right steal and kill becuase they can. I am talkin to you Setec and all the other people that want to be the bad guys. WHAT ARE YOU THINKING? lol. Pirates in this game are not respectable, they are just losers.
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Ends
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Posted - 2003.06.30 01:36:00 -
[8]
Why in the world should a PKer like you be able to have nearly the highest rating possible Setec? You shouldn't. Killing + Stealing = NOT A HIGH SEC RATING.
What is it with these people that screw others over then expect there to be no repercussions for it? I genuinely can't think of something more stupid than people who like to hurt others and expecting no punishment for it, as though they think they have a right steal and kill becuase they can. I am talkin to you Setec and all the other people that want to be the bad guys. WHAT ARE YOU THINKING? lol. Pirates in this game are not respectable, they are just losers.
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Endureth
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Posted - 2003.06.30 03:03:00 -
[9]
Before you jump all over Setec, listen to what he's saying. He's not saying it should be 'easy' for a known pirate to raise their sec rating but it should be possible.
My first thought is around .005 is what someone should get for killing your average pirate. That's 100 pirates to get a .1 in your sec rating. Even that may be too easy for some of the more hardcore pirates but I think it's fair.
-E
Edited by: Endureth on 30/06/2003 03:03:17
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Endureth
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Posted - 2003.06.30 03:03:00 -
[10]
Before you jump all over Setec, listen to what he's saying. He's not saying it should be 'easy' for a known pirate to raise their sec rating but it should be possible.
My first thought is around .005 is what someone should get for killing your average pirate. That's 100 pirates to get a .1 in your sec rating. Even that may be too easy for some of the more hardcore pirates but I think it's fair.
-E
Edited by: Endureth on 30/06/2003 03:03:17
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Ehxo
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Posted - 2003.06.30 03:44:00 -
[11]
I must agree here. Yes, it needed a nerf, but not the chainsaw!!
I mean common, it's gonna take me 1000 pirates to get .1 back up!?? That's nonsense.
At least make it so you have to kill about 50 pirates to get .1 back, it's still gonna take a hell of a lot to get back from -10.0 to 0.0, but at least we'll have a way besides time!
I mean common... you have to admit that 1/1000 of security status increase per pirate is too extreme.
If you read the FAQ, you were supposed to be able to pay fines, do community work and clean space debris to get security status back up... but as per a GM following a question I've sent, it's out-dated info (which came from the ingame "ask a question" FAQ...) and it's not in the game yet.
So basically, once you get down to -10 or even -5, you're screwed and it will take 50 days at .1 a day to get back to 0. Think that's fair? I don't...
Edited by: Ehxo on 30/06/2003 03:45:00
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Ehxo
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Posted - 2003.06.30 03:44:00 -
[12]
I must agree here. Yes, it needed a nerf, but not the chainsaw!!
I mean common, it's gonna take me 1000 pirates to get .1 back up!?? That's nonsense.
At least make it so you have to kill about 50 pirates to get .1 back, it's still gonna take a hell of a lot to get back from -10.0 to 0.0, but at least we'll have a way besides time!
I mean common... you have to admit that 1/1000 of security status increase per pirate is too extreme.
If you read the FAQ, you were supposed to be able to pay fines, do community work and clean space debris to get security status back up... but as per a GM following a question I've sent, it's out-dated info (which came from the ingame "ask a question" FAQ...) and it's not in the game yet.
So basically, once you get down to -10 or even -5, you're screwed and it will take 50 days at .1 a day to get back to 0. Think that's fair? I don't...
Edited by: Ehxo on 30/06/2003 03:45:00
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Hanse Davion
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Posted - 2003.06.30 03:57:00 -
[13]
One of the problems with these types of post is that it's all emotion and no fact. Setac is wrong, you kill a Angel Cruiser you do get more then .0000 toward you sec rating. In fact the number si somthing like .003 or something like that. Now for anything lower you only are getting something like .0001 to .0005. So yea you are going to have to kill literally thousands of pirates to get a little old .1 sec rating back.
It's not impossible just time consuming.
2005.01.21 05:09:06combatYour Tachyon Beam Laser I perfectly strikes Blood Priest, wrecking for 533.1 damage. |
Hanse Davion
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Posted - 2003.06.30 03:57:00 -
[14]
One of the problems with these types of post is that it's all emotion and no fact. Setac is wrong, you kill a Angel Cruiser you do get more then .0000 toward you sec rating. In fact the number si somthing like .003 or something like that. Now for anything lower you only are getting something like .0001 to .0005. So yea you are going to have to kill literally thousands of pirates to get a little old .1 sec rating back.
It's not impossible just time consuming.
2005.01.21 05:09:06combatYour Tachyon Beam Laser I perfectly strikes Blood Priest, wrecking for 533.1 damage. |
Arondos
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Posted - 2003.06.30 04:04:00 -
[15]
You are also forgetting that factions drift. If you quit attacking convoys you will come back towards 0.0 at .1 a day.
Life isn't fair and neither is Eve. Get over it. |
Arondos
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Posted - 2003.06.30 04:04:00 -
[16]
You are also forgetting that factions drift. If you quit attacking convoys you will come back towards 0.0 at .1 a day.
Life isn't fair and neither is Eve. Get over it. |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.06.30 04:07:00 -
[17]
1) Create a "Crime counter" on all character files. Each hostile act increases the counter +1
2) Give NPC Pirates a fair +sec base amount.
3) Use the crime counter as a modifier to the base +sec amount given by a killing a pirate. 1 crime = 1/2 sec value. 2 crime 1/4 sec value. 3 crimes 1/9th sec value. Ect, ect.
4) Use the crime counter as a modifier to the base -sec amount caused by each criminal act. 1 crime = base -sec. 2 crimes = base sec hit + addition 10%. 3 crimes...
5) Remove 1 "crime" from the character's counter each day.
The numbers would need alot of tweaking but hopefully you'd get the idea. Each criminal act would reduce the amount of +sec killing an npc pirate would give. Since only 1 crime is forgiven per day, repeated acts would dig the player further and further into the hole causing pirate killing to return less and less security rating. And only going without any criminal acts for extended periods of time would restore the +sec from killing pirates.
This would sorta mimick a pirate becoming more and more loathsome with each criminal act. It would also require more and more acts of good out of him to restore his sec rating, along with longer periods of good behavior to be of any effect.
If a player pirate dug himself so far into the hole that he's getting +.00002 for each pirate destroyed, he only has himself to blame. If he wants to restore his sec rating, he'll have to play nice for a good while before things will be forgiven.
Edited by: Jash Illian on 30/06/2003 04:07:28
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.06.30 04:07:00 -
[18]
1) Create a "Crime counter" on all character files. Each hostile act increases the counter +1
2) Give NPC Pirates a fair +sec base amount.
3) Use the crime counter as a modifier to the base +sec amount given by a killing a pirate. 1 crime = 1/2 sec value. 2 crime 1/4 sec value. 3 crimes 1/9th sec value. Ect, ect.
4) Use the crime counter as a modifier to the base -sec amount caused by each criminal act. 1 crime = base -sec. 2 crimes = base sec hit + addition 10%. 3 crimes...
5) Remove 1 "crime" from the character's counter each day.
The numbers would need alot of tweaking but hopefully you'd get the idea. Each criminal act would reduce the amount of +sec killing an npc pirate would give. Since only 1 crime is forgiven per day, repeated acts would dig the player further and further into the hole causing pirate killing to return less and less security rating. And only going without any criminal acts for extended periods of time would restore the +sec from killing pirates.
This would sorta mimick a pirate becoming more and more loathsome with each criminal act. It would also require more and more acts of good out of him to restore his sec rating, along with longer periods of good behavior to be of any effect.
If a player pirate dug himself so far into the hole that he's getting +.00002 for each pirate destroyed, he only has himself to blame. If he wants to restore his sec rating, he'll have to play nice for a good while before things will be forgiven.
Edited by: Jash Illian on 30/06/2003 04:07:28
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Masisu
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Posted - 2003.06.30 04:23:00 -
[19]
I totally disagree. IRL, if you murder someone, doesn't really matter how many good deeds you do, you're still a murderer. Sure a thief may be able to work himself back into normal society, but only after a LONG time.
I, personally, think that any player that pods (that's pod kill for some of you) another player in a non-war situation should NEVER be allowed to get anything close to resembling a positive security settings.
Theives and pirates that destroy property wantonly should have to work VERY hard (read weeks or months game time) to get back to being a citizen in good standing.
Its pathetic how little punishment and difficulty being a PKer or pirate in this game provides.
I think its GREAT to have a PvP element and a black market element to the game, but make it difficult to be one. As it is now, its easier to be a pirate than any other profession.
Life on the lamb should be quick and dodge, never knowing when the man is right aroudn the corner. This would be exciting and interesting. As it is now, even m0o is getting bored of the pirate life.
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Masisu
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Posted - 2003.06.30 04:23:00 -
[20]
I totally disagree. IRL, if you murder someone, doesn't really matter how many good deeds you do, you're still a murderer. Sure a thief may be able to work himself back into normal society, but only after a LONG time.
I, personally, think that any player that pods (that's pod kill for some of you) another player in a non-war situation should NEVER be allowed to get anything close to resembling a positive security settings.
Theives and pirates that destroy property wantonly should have to work VERY hard (read weeks or months game time) to get back to being a citizen in good standing.
Its pathetic how little punishment and difficulty being a PKer or pirate in this game provides.
I think its GREAT to have a PvP element and a black market element to the game, but make it difficult to be one. As it is now, its easier to be a pirate than any other profession.
Life on the lamb should be quick and dodge, never knowing when the man is right aroudn the corner. This would be exciting and interesting. As it is now, even m0o is getting bored of the pirate life.
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Cyrus Troy
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Posted - 2003.06.30 08:23:00 -
[21]
I agree with this nurf and I disagree. If the effects from killing NPC Pirates gets lowered than so should the effects of NPC convoys.
One thing I do agree with is that it should be almost impossible to work your way back to a positive raiting. If YOU are a KILLER! not to mention someone who pod kills someone, that's it. If you don't like the effects, than start another character, or start using your other two slots for characters, who cares, but YOU pulled the trigger and became a PK'er. Live with it!
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Cyrus Troy
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Posted - 2003.06.30 08:23:00 -
[22]
I agree with this nurf and I disagree. If the effects from killing NPC Pirates gets lowered than so should the effects of NPC convoys.
One thing I do agree with is that it should be almost impossible to work your way back to a positive raiting. If YOU are a KILLER! not to mention someone who pod kills someone, that's it. If you don't like the effects, than start another character, or start using your other two slots for characters, who cares, but YOU pulled the trigger and became a PK'er. Live with it!
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Ashira Macinari
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Posted - 2003.06.30 10:28:00 -
[23]
I agree that the way players could easily restore negative security ratings needed to be changed. However the way CCP have done so has resulted in 'pirates' having security ratings higher than I could possibly get after months of playing. These pirates are then free to fire at any unsuspecting target while their security rating is hardly affected. In my opinion the amount by which the security rating goes down should be increased, so that pirates can be recognised for what they are.
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Ashira Macinari
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Posted - 2003.06.30 10:28:00 -
[24]
I agree that the way players could easily restore negative security ratings needed to be changed. However the way CCP have done so has resulted in 'pirates' having security ratings higher than I could possibly get after months of playing. These pirates are then free to fire at any unsuspecting target while their security rating is hardly affected. In my opinion the amount by which the security rating goes down should be increased, so that pirates can be recognised for what they are.
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Cara 'Than
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Posted - 2003.06.30 10:38:00 -
[25]
another thing is that now its impossible to put a bounty on someones head just because he has a sec rating higher than -1. Well if someone kills u and has a sec rating of +0.5 it doesn't put his sec rating below -1. So it's almost impossible to put a bounty on someones head except the fact he is a full blood pirate.
__________________
"Fear leads to Anger. Anger leads to Hate. Hate leads to suffering." |
Cara 'Than
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Posted - 2003.06.30 10:38:00 -
[26]
another thing is that now its impossible to put a bounty on someones head just because he has a sec rating higher than -1. Well if someone kills u and has a sec rating of +0.5 it doesn't put his sec rating below -1. So it's almost impossible to put a bounty on someones head except the fact he is a full blood pirate.
__________________
"Fear leads to Anger. Anger leads to Hate. Hate leads to suffering." |
Greeble
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Posted - 2003.06.30 11:13:00 -
[27]
I've only read the first couple of posts. The change makes perfect sense to me. However, it would probably be nicer if it were not a linear scale.
So, say you have a really low security status from killing newbie players, for example. You want to kill pirates to ease your debt to society. Fine. Kill pirates. You kill some, and society decides maybe you're not so bad after all.
But society doesn't really trust a murderer, does it? So I submit that after a certain amount of pirate-killing, you hit diminishing returns for each kill, and will have to work MUCH harder to get back up to a spotlessly clean slate.
So it's a curve, not a line.
- Greeble
Polaris BugHunter |
Greeble
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Posted - 2003.06.30 11:13:00 -
[28]
I've only read the first couple of posts. The change makes perfect sense to me. However, it would probably be nicer if it were not a linear scale.
So, say you have a really low security status from killing newbie players, for example. You want to kill pirates to ease your debt to society. Fine. Kill pirates. You kill some, and society decides maybe you're not so bad after all.
But society doesn't really trust a murderer, does it? So I submit that after a certain amount of pirate-killing, you hit diminishing returns for each kill, and will have to work MUCH harder to get back up to a spotlessly clean slate.
So it's a curve, not a line.
- Greeble
Polaris BugHunter |
Fortoye Drak
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Posted - 2003.06.30 11:22:00 -
[29]
Setec - that is on live, this is the patch review forum for test. You didnt spend all weekend killing npc pirates on test did you? Nope - so stop saying you only 0.0000 for killing them, its wrong and its dragging current status into the test forum.
Facional security rating is going to be tied to your agent levels soon... so unless you've also got a level 5 agent you can waive goodbye to that 9.8 sec rating right now, just aas I have tow aive goodbyte to my 10.
The new fac/sec maximum will be 2*agent level.
Factional drift for NPC killing (convoys) is also in-game.
Easy Sec status gain shouldnt ever be part of this game - you chose to kill players then live with the consequences - thats tuff luck.
Other methods for raising sec/fac status are in or on the way, deal with them - preferably test them on chaos, not whine about the status on live...k thx.
- - -
They have ALSO changed the effects of other - WORKING - features and skills such as social, diplomacy and negotiation etc - these all help when dealing with various NPCs.
Diplomacy was raised from 0.1 ot 0.4 per level (gain when dealing with hostile NPC faction) only the other day and is already Live. (and these skills are in the game - you can buy diplomacy off me if you like!)
It is really annoying when folks rant on about the unfairness and unviable methods for raising their fac/sec status when they really dont seem to have a clue about how they can do it.
Don't have any agents? Its been known since beta that agents can be used for this and will be used in this area - you cant complain that "you didn't know".
Edited by: Fortoye Drak on 30/06/2003 11:27:04
Press Liason
Big-Bang Burger Bar - Neocom Site |
Fortoye Drak
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Posted - 2003.06.30 11:22:00 -
[30]
Setec - that is on live, this is the patch review forum for test. You didnt spend all weekend killing npc pirates on test did you? Nope - so stop saying you only 0.0000 for killing them, its wrong and its dragging current status into the test forum.
Facional security rating is going to be tied to your agent levels soon... so unless you've also got a level 5 agent you can waive goodbye to that 9.8 sec rating right now, just aas I have tow aive goodbyte to my 10.
The new fac/sec maximum will be 2*agent level.
Factional drift for NPC killing (convoys) is also in-game.
Easy Sec status gain shouldnt ever be part of this game - you chose to kill players then live with the consequences - thats tuff luck.
Other methods for raising sec/fac status are in or on the way, deal with them - preferably test them on chaos, not whine about the status on live...k thx.
- - -
They have ALSO changed the effects of other - WORKING - features and skills such as social, diplomacy and negotiation etc - these all help when dealing with various NPCs.
Diplomacy was raised from 0.1 ot 0.4 per level (gain when dealing with hostile NPC faction) only the other day and is already Live. (and these skills are in the game - you can buy diplomacy off me if you like!)
It is really annoying when folks rant on about the unfairness and unviable methods for raising their fac/sec status when they really dont seem to have a clue about how they can do it.
Don't have any agents? Its been known since beta that agents can be used for this and will be used in this area - you cant complain that "you didn't know".
Edited by: Fortoye Drak on 30/06/2003 11:27:04
Press Liason
Big-Bang Burger Bar - Neocom Site |
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