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Dirk Swan	Posted - 2010.12.08 11:28:00 - [1] Edited by: Dirk Swan on 08/12/2010 11:29:02 If you hate macro ice miners you have to start writing more threads against macro ice miners. We have to keep up the pressure on CCP to get rid of macro ice miners. We also need to start attacking macro ice miners. I am creating alts in my accounts just for attacking macro mining Mac's in high sectors. Two or three low cost cruisers can take out a most Mac's before Concord can kill you.
Michwich	Posted - 2010.12.08 11:31:00 - [2] The only way to defeat it is to deny it battle. You are giving CCP more reason to allow botters and miners with your plan. You should unsub if youre seriouse.
Kalle Demos Amarr Hysteria Nexus	Posted - 2010.12.08 11:35:00 - [3] Originally by: Michwich The only way to defeat it is to deny it battle. You are giving CCP more reason to allow botters and miners with your plan. You should unsub if youre seriouse. Didnt you quit? Originally by: Kool StoryBro <--- Originally by: CCP Spitfire Spam post removed. Random forum moments ftw
Lilla Kharn Amarr B4D W0LF Systematic-Chaos	Posted - 2010.12.08 11:37:00 - [4] Macro ice miners. Are they mining all the ice in the belts? No. Why should we care? I don't. Make me care. Nope I can't care. If you want to spend your time attacking them, go ahead. It's not going to help to make whine posts. Just unsub. Or spend your days shooting them if it brings you that much pleasure. They make more ISK that you can destroy though. So... Good luck ============================================= "Only the dead have seen the end of war" - Plato
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.12.08 11:40:00 - [5] Edited by: Akita T on 08/12/2010 11:42:53 Like the above poster, I can't seem to care enough to want to get rid of them. Devil's advocate point of view : I love the effect of macro/bot ice miners' existence on the price of tower fuels, which also means cheaper reactions, which means cheaper T2 ships, which means more are purchased, used and destroyed, which means higher demand for moon minerals, which means more income for valuable moon owners and so on and so forth. _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Michwich	Posted - 2010.12.08 11:40:00 - [6] Originally by: Kalle Demos Originally by: Michwich The only way to defeat it is to deny it battle. You are giving CCP more reason to allow botters and miners with your plan. You should unsub if youre seriouse. Didnt you quit? Yeah I did. and?
Kyoto Luyi Trotters Interstellar Traders	Posted - 2010.12.08 11:45:00 - [7] Since they are making less than 3M/hour from hisec ice, who cares? -- The views or opinions I express are solely my own and do not reflect those of my Corporation or Alliance.. Oh, and I'm NOT allowed in CAOD either :)
Jennifer Starling Amarr	Posted - 2010.12.08 12:29:00 - [8] Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 08/12/2010 12:31:16 CCP should do away with mining alltogether so only refining loot and drones now get you minerals and ice. And/or make ice a primary PI commodity (which would make more sense than floating ice cubes in space). result: no more macro miners!!
Doctor Ungabungas Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2010.12.08 12:36:00 - [9] I'm already paying billions of isk a month in POS upkeep, more macro ice miners please.
Jennifer Starling Amarr	Posted - 2010.12.08 12:38:00 - [10] Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 08/12/2010 12:38:27 Originally by: Doctor Ungabungas I'm already paying billions of isk a month in POS upkeep, more macro ice miners please. This is need one of the basic problems with macro miners, people who don't mine get their minerals and ice stuff for a lot less. If CCP really banned all botters, prices of minerals/ice would rocket sky high and people wouldn't be able to afford POSses, ship and other prices will also get a lot more expensive.
Lilla Kharn Amarr B4D W0LF Systematic-Chaos	Posted - 2010.12.08 12:59:00 - [11] Originally by: Jennifer Starling Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 08/12/2010 12:38:27 Originally by: Doctor Ungabungas I'm already paying billions of isk a month in POS upkeep, more macro ice miners please. This is need one of the basic problems with macro miners, people who don't mine get their minerals and ice stuff for a lot less. If CCP really banned all botters, prices of minerals/ice would rocket sky high and people wouldn't be able to afford POSses, ship and other prices will also get a lot more expensive. If you can't afford it don't buy it? Ya, it's going to get more expensive, but so what? Will make pvp more fun when people can't buy full T2 ships with full T2 fittings. And if you can't afford the fuel on your POS, take it down. ============================================= "Only the dead have seen the end of war" - Plato
Doctor Ungabungas Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2010.12.08 13:02:00 - [12] Edited by: Doctor Ungabungas on 08/12/2010 13:02:33 Originally by: Lilla Kharn Originally by: Jennifer Starling Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 08/12/2010 12:38:27 Originally by: Doctor Ungabungas I'm already paying billions of isk a month in POS upkeep, more macro ice miners please. This is need one of the basic problems with macro miners, people who don't mine get their minerals and ice stuff for a lot less. If CCP really banned all botters, prices of minerals/ice would rocket sky high and people wouldn't be able to afford POSses, ship and other prices will also get a lot more expensive. If you can't afford it don't buy it? Ya, it's going to get more expensive, but so what? Will make pvp more fun when people can't buy full T2 ships with full T2 fittings. And if you can't afford the fuel on your POS, take it down. All 8? Who will react the materials you need for your T2 ships Rest assured that the increase in POS costs is being passed onto the consumer.
Jennifer Starling Amarr	Posted - 2010.12.08 13:03:00 - [13] Originally by: Lilla Kharn Originally by: Jennifer Starling This is need one of the basic problems with macro miners, people who don't mine get their minerals and ice stuff for a lot less. If CCP really banned all botters, prices of minerals/ice would rocket sky high and people wouldn't be able to afford POSses, ship and other prices will also get a lot more expensive. If you can't afford it don't buy it? Ya, it's going to get more expensive, but so what? Will make pvp more fun when people can't buy full T2 ships with full T2 fittings. And if you can't afford the fuel on your POS, take it down. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for baning botters, let's just say that a lot of people won't vote in favour (same for threads about making mining more "challenging/interesting") because it either doesn't serve their purposes or they may have macros themselves.
Lilla Kharn Amarr B4D W0LF Systematic-Chaos	Posted - 2010.12.08 13:08:00 - [14] Originally by: Jennifer Starling Originally by: Lilla Kharn Originally by: Jennifer Starling This is need one of the basic problems with macro miners, people who don't mine get their minerals and ice stuff for a lot less. If CCP really banned all botters, prices of minerals/ice would rocket sky high and people wouldn't be able to afford POSses, ship and other prices will also get a lot more expensive. If you can't afford it don't buy it? Ya, it's going to get more expensive, but so what? Will make pvp more fun when people can't buy full T2 ships with full T2 fittings. And if you can't afford the fuel on your POS, take it down. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for baning botters, let's just say that a lot of people won't vote in favour (same for threads about making mining more "challenging/interesting") because it either doesn't serve their purposes or they may have macros themselves. Lol, ya that's certainly true. Too bad they can't see that after a couple months the market will level out again as those who didn't mine before before because of the macroers will be coming out to mine again. Originally by: Doctor Ungabungas Edited by: Doctor Ungabungas on 08/12/2010 13:02:33 Originally by: Lilla Kharn Originally by: Jennifer Starling Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 08/12/2010 12:38:27 Originally by: Doctor Ungabungas I'm already paying billions of isk a month in POS upkeep, more macro ice miners please. This is need one of the basic problems with macro miners, people who don't mine get their minerals and ice stuff for a lot less. If CCP really banned all botters, prices of minerals/ice would rocket sky high and people wouldn't be able to afford POSses, ship and other prices will also get a lot more expensive. If you can't afford it don't buy it? Ya, it's going to get more expensive, but so what? Will make pvp more fun when people can't buy full T2 ships with full T2 fittings. And if you can't afford the fuel on your POS, take it down. All 8? Who will react the materials you need for your T2 ships Rest assured that the increase in POS costs is being passed onto the consumer. All 8? What does that mean. Oh and you've been voluntold to react all the stuff for my T2 ships. GET A MOVE ON! ============================================= "Only the dead have seen the end of war" - Plato
Alxea	Posted - 2010.12.08 14:38:00 - [15] Its not possible to tell the difference between a afk ice miner to a macro ice miner. The ice never goes away. And I blow up ice miners every once and awile. All you need is a BC. In higher sec use arts on a BS.
PsiMin	Posted - 2010.12.08 17:41:00 - [16] Yes it prob does go on but geez not all ice miners are bots, it takes on avg 5 minutes per cycle to do a load depending if they have cargo expanders on and ship it could be 15 mins per haul. Who wants to sit at a screen watching ice mine, i rarely ice mine depends if i can be bothered to buy fuel for my pos's but when i do it just let it run and watch a movie. Real macro miners have 10,20,30 ppl mining not just one char. To be honest i am noth bothered, if all macro miners did somehow get stopped Trit would become 5,6,7 isk per unit and that will then make ppl moan about how expensive everything is so it dont matter what happens ppl will complain about something
Killstealing	Posted - 2010.12.08 18:27:00 - [17] Edited by: Killstealing on 08/12/2010 18:28:04 I don't mine so more macro miners = less isk spent for me also as above guy said, who wants to go back to 6 isk/unit of trit I mean jesus, sure those cruisers are cheap now but without macros they would be much more expensive
The cableguy	Posted - 2010.12.08 19:27:00 - [18] Originally by: Killstealing Edited by: Killstealing on 08/12/2010 18:28:04 I don't mine so more macro miners = less isk spent for me also as above guy said, who wants to go back to 6 isk/unit of trit I mean jesus, sure those cruisers are cheap now but without macros they would be much more expensive Real miners want Trit at 6 isk/unit. Also you wouldn't have to mine any longer than you do now to build or buy that cruiser even at the higher mineral prices. I don't think prices would raise that much anyway as real miners would start picking up the slack if it was worth more for their time. Bots don't care what they make an hour so long as they can cover their Plex for the month and have a surplus. But aside from the economics of it all I think the reduction of CPU power from removing all the 23.5/7 botters sure wouldn't hurt the lag situation in Eve. I'm talking both server and client sides. I have a fairly decent laptop and run about 30fps on my usual graphics setting. If I warp to an icebelt full of bots that drops to about 6 even zoomed out.
Alt FTW	Posted - 2010.12.08 19:28:00 - [19] Edited by: Alt FTW on 08/12/2010 19:32:17 I don't see the problem with higher prices (and yes, I also have to maintain a POS and buy ships). It might make some people PvP less, but it would certainly raise the stakes, making it all a bit more exciting. Markets would probably adjust down quite a bit by making mining more interesting for honest industrials. In any case, it would be a small price to pay for getting rid of those idiot macroers.
Eric Garvin	Posted - 2010.12.09 11:03:00 - [20] CCP stop macro ice miners!!
Kalle Demos Amarr Hysteria Nexus	Posted - 2010.12.09 11:14:00 - [21] "I like botters because that means things are cheap and everyone can PvP" Well in that case CCP should remove plex from the market and make everything 100 ISK, eventually everything will become so cheap (thanks to botters) that this will be the case. OR what about the botters leave tranq and go on sisi where they can have RISK FREE PvP, theres even sisi kb you guys can use and drool over too Originally by: Kool StoryBro <--- Originally by: CCP Spitfire Spam post removed. Random forum moments ftw
Baneken Gallente School of the Unseen	Posted - 2010.12.09 11:36:00 - [22] One guy claimed to PvP in all +5's every time in null sec and also claims to have 8 alts running which means he spends 3.3billion isk each month just to keep his accounts running. So even if we would get rid of all the botters and POS fuel prices would sky rocket I doubt that the moon goo owners would even notice the difference... As for ice mining it's rather ridiculous that you can't mine ice from ice planet. http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
Infinity Ziona Minmatar Cloakers	Posted - 2010.12.09 11:57:00 - [23] Edited by: Infinity Ziona on 09/12/2010 11:59:10 Can you use bumping to knock them outta range? Cycle times quite long? Anyway, if your serious about botters you can do something about them now. Check the thread in Crime and Punishment - coalition of afk cloakers. Can't stand around waiting for CCP to do everything. --------------------------------------------- Hate Bots / RMT? Do something worthwhile and good for EvE and cause tears and anguish for others, while doing absolutely nothing yourself! Join up.
Kalle Demos Amarr Hysteria Nexus	Posted - 2010.12.09 12:38:00 - [24] So I notice I need a skill book, I go to the learning centre, on the way I see no one in local and this is right after DT and I notice something odd about the system that had the skill book 35 people, so curiousity gets the best of me and I click on peoples names, after noticing ALL were NPC I checked to see what asteroid belts were in that system. 2 Ice belts, all occupied, each had about 13 - 15 miners This was just 1 system in eve, I am tstill looking into the stats for 'macro mining bots' and without those stats 20% of eve bots, I wouldnt be surprised if with those stats it is something close to 50% 1 system = approx 35 botters Originally by: Kool StoryBro <--- Originally by: CCP Spitfire Spam post removed. Random forum moments ftw
knobber Jobbler Executive Intervention Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2010.12.09 13:35:00 - [25] Originally by: Jennifer Starling Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 08/12/2010 12:38:27 Originally by: Doctor Ungabungas I'm already paying billions of isk a month in POS upkeep, more macro ice miners please. This is need one of the basic problems with macro miners, people who don't mine get their minerals and ice stuff for a lot less. If CCP really banned all botters, prices of minerals/ice would rocket sky high and people wouldn't be able to afford POSses, ship and other prices will also get a lot more expensive. Maybe it would help with bringing down the numbers of supercaps? Either way, something needs to be done by CCP, its ruining the game for genuine players.
Mr FourEyes	Posted - 2010.12.09 13:40:00 - [26] CCP has no intention of banning them, they refuse to ever admit its an issue, I say we just all joing them so we all just roam around in our titans.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.12.09 14:07:00 - [27] Originally by: Akita T Devil's advocate point of view : I love the effect of macro/bot ice miners' existence on the price of tower fuels, which also means cheaper reactions, which means cheaper T2 ships, which means more are purchased, used and destroyed, which means higher demand for moon minerals, which means more income for valuable moon owners and so on and so forth I don't love the effect instead, because of two reasons: 1) Regardless of the source, a drugged market is a sick market, what happens screwing with markets is under the eyes of everyone in these days. 2) Your sentence could be simplified from I love the effect of macro/bot ice miners' existence on the price of tower fuels, which also means cheaper reactions, which means cheaper T2 ships, which means more are purchased, used and destroyed, which means higher demand for moon minerals, which means more income for valuable moon owners and so on and so forth. to I love the effect of macro/bot ice miners' existence on the price of tower fuels => which means more income for valuable moon owners and so on and so forth. This bubbling up of the chain of revenue in few hands makes them immensely rich. It could actually be seen as a giant RMT terrain culture, value going up from mining bots up and up to those who end up using 0.0 alliances as RMT device, money indeed flows to them. Quote: Since they are making less than 3M/hour from hisec ice, who cares? While CCP keeps stating botting (and RMT) are forbidden in their EULA, someone should care. Quote: I don't mine so more macro miners = less isk spent for me also as above guy said, who wants to go back to 6 isk/unit of trit I mean jesus, sure those cruisers are cheap now but without macros they would be much more expensive If prices change, the change gets gradually applied to the whole economy and in the end the only ones who would actually "lose" are those who shell $$ for PLEX to convert in ISK aka the losers of EvE. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Rellik B00n Lethal Death Squad	Posted - 2010.12.09 14:09:00 - [28] provide various macros as part of the eve client. Playing field levelled and problem solved imo. . -hi sec lolwarrior-
lateralvelocity	Posted - 2010.12.09 16:31:00 - [29] I really don't think it is possible to remove ice macros. There have to be more ice macros than actual players mining ice. It is the most god awful boring process and the market needs LOTS of ice products. Ice mining has been macro-ed forever the DEV's know this c'mon how couldn't they. Do you have any idea how many POS's there are these days. There is absolutely no way enough people would willingly spend their game time mining ice to meet that need. I report macros mining ore or doing anything else, but ice macros, pointless. Ice is one of the cornerstones of the market. Be sure that CCP has a very firm grasp of exactly how much is on the market and where it all is. I would not be surprised if there is currently and has always been secret DEV involvement in the ice market including the possibility of some of those macro's being CCP bots.
Tornan Minmatar Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.12.09 16:43:00 - [30] by allowing ice mining you say all macro and botting is good, and its not. its sad that ccp allows it.

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