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Solo PVP dead. Small doesn't matter. Long live the corporate drone???

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Jhagiti Tyran	Posted - 2010.12.13 16:46:00 - [91] Originally by: Infinity Ziona I'm one of the few people who still play EvE on hardmode. No you don't, you live in high sec killing newbs and noobs in poorly fitted ships and industrial ships. Grow some balls, throw off the training wheels and leave high sec before you go around posting about how hardcore you are.
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2010.12.13 16:48:00 - [92] Originally by: 1600 RT the best boost for solo fight would be the removal of KB stats It depends on how the killboard ranks people. If you look at the top 1000 pvpers on battleclinic you will see quite a few solo kills. Believe me the best boost for solo pvpers would be tweaking the fw complex system. Originally by: Geanos Reading through this thread, my conclusion is that you need a lot of free time for successful solo/small gang PVP. Meh but true This is a problem with all of pvp. It takes a long time to get good pvp fights. If you join a large group you have to wait for it to form up. Then you will get a bunch of kills but it will be relatively rare to get a good fight. The thing is as your fleet grows the chances of finding another fleet that can give you a good fight decreases. This is mathematical probabilities. CCP should recognize this mathematical probability truism and focus on ways to boost small engagement pvp. To the extent they keep striving to get people to form larger and larger fleets they are just dumbing down the game. (at least for everyone except the fc. IÆm not saying fcing large fleets is easy.) -Cearain Make fw occupancy pvp instead of pve: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.12.13 16:49:00 - [93] I recall seeing threads like these in this very forum when I started playing EVE in 2006. The "golden Age" of solo/small gang PvP is always 2 years ago. Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
Metalkiss Minmatar Pack Mentality Art of War Alliance	Posted - 2010.12.13 16:53:00 - [94] There's no doubt that solo PvPing is pretty tough with the risk of your target calling in friends, but I'd definitely say solo PvP is far from dead or even dying. It's harder to find, yes, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's gone. I'm a firm believer of undock and look. There's no laziness in solo PvP. I haven't been in many solo fights recently, but small gangs (meaning two or three pilots in small ships, mainly Rifters) are very frequent. No, we don't always win our fights, but we do get them. It's inevitable that when you bring many players to one place, some will group together more successfully than others. The way I see it, you either join a group of people to go after them, or you just take the bad with the good. Some days you'll get amazing solo or small gang PvP, and others you'll be station/gate-camped and unable to move for the blob. Guess it comes down to whether you can stick it through that. I know I have no intentions of changing the way I play any time soon. Classy lady pirate. Join Pack Mentality! Just contact me in-game or at [email protected] for good, trouble-causing times!
Infinity Ziona Minmatar Cloakers	Posted - 2010.12.13 17:24:00 - [95] Originally by: Jhagiti Tyran Originally by: Infinity Ziona I'm one of the few people who still play EvE on hardmode. No you don't, you live in high sec killing newbs and noobs in poorly fitted ships and industrial ships. Grow some balls, throw off the training wheels and leave high sec before you go around posting about how hardcore you are. Says the guy whose only solo kills in over a year are 3 frigates, an industrial and a t1 cruiser. --------------------------------------------- Hate Bots / RMT? Do something worthwhile and good for EvE and cause tears and anguish for others, while doing absolutely nothing yourself! Join up.
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE	Posted - 2010.12.13 17:29:00 - [96] Originally by: Infinity Ziona Originally by: Misanth Originally by: Candente add an arena system. problem solved. No. Big thrill of the PvP, bar the risks involved, is the hunt. How the initiation of the fight is executed. Scouting, range, distances, etc. Solo PvP is diffrent for different people tho, some want a ship of size X to go up against a ship of equal size. Others want the option to move around trying ot pick fights vs equal OR (on paper) tougher/bigger groups. Two major issues for both those examples is a) local as inteltool and b) blobcamps (usually with instalock and ecm). Two days to 'fix' PvP for those interested in small scale combat would be to remove local (for one). And another would be to try change the player mentality back to where players actually do feel like fighting, even when put at risk. The first has an obvious solution, the second is alot harder to implement. I will sometimes spend hours, sometimes on a weekend I spend an entire day locating, tracking and setting up a single kill. The fun for me is purely hunting someone who knows I am hunting them, avoiding their predictable gangs hunting me and trying to out think them or predict correctly what they will do next so that I will be there when they do it. I could just go sit in a system with a bunch of people and kill a random person every few minutes but its pointless, has no skill involved and so is a valueless kill. We got same taste when it comes to PvP then. Everyone doesn't agree tho, obviously those with no patience who just want the fight. To me the hunt is the fight, but.. anyways; the game shouldn't be restricted to one kind, that makes it predictable and dull (and might very well kill or hurt the game severely in the long run). So, bar from killing local, what can be done to affect player mentality? To don't mind taking more risks? Perhaps start at the KB builders, and the alliance leaders. Stop looking at losses, only focus on kills. - I'd tell you why but then I'll have to kill you. And to kill you I'd have to log in. And to log in I'd have to stop browsing these forums. Both you and me knows that'll never happen.
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE	Posted - 2010.12.13 17:37:00 - [97] Originally by: Malcanis I recall seeing threads like these in this very forum when I started playing EVE in 2006. The "golden Age" of solo/small gang PvP is always 2 years ago. That's very true. I started up in 2005 and it was hard to get "fair fights" (as some people describe 'solo pvp'). Day one I moved to lowsec, we could barely fly frigates and there was usually 1-2 cruisers with superior skills coming to own our small gangs. When I finally stepped up to cruisers, we had a lone pirate that used to solo us in his Raven. ..but that's where it lies. You could go out in a cruiser or bc (or even bs if you could afford it), and you could get past gates and fight in belts. Very few tanked sentries, even less fought on stations. The fights were in the belts. Same went for 0.0. One difference today is that you (as a long or small-scale pilot) struggle to move around. Nano isn't a problem here either, the server was clearly breaking from it. And the changes actually gave more tools for tactics/fittings. Numbers, instalock, force multipliers (neutral RR, logistics, insta-locking HIC, ECM) etc, neither of that was used back then. And, ships were more expensive, but people still didn't mind losing them. I've lost track on how many Rifters, Executioners and Arbitrators I lost while learning the basics. Today people run at "even" fights, and only reason I can think of is that they're scared of actually.. dying. As if that's a bad thing. That's a major difference from back then. - I'd tell you why but then I'll have to kill you. And to kill you I'd have to log in. And to log in I'd have to stop browsing these forums. Both you and me knows that'll never happen.
1600 RT	Posted - 2010.12.13 17:44:00 - [98] Originally by: Cearain Originally by: 1600 RT the best boost for solo fight would be the removal of KB stats It depends on how the killboard ranks people. If you look at the top 1000 pvpers on battleclinic you will see quite a few solo kills. Believe me the best boost for solo pvpers would be tweaking the fw complex system. i said removal of KB stats because alot of players are scared to accept a fair fight not because of the isk loss but because a loss gonna ruin their leet KB stats and they just go call their friends. focusing solo pvp to FW complex its a stupid idea at best
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE	Posted - 2010.12.13 17:46:00 - [99] Originally by: 1600 RT Originally by: Cearain Originally by: 1600 RT the best boost for solo fight would be the removal of KB stats It depends on how the killboard ranks people. If you look at the top 1000 pvpers on battleclinic you will see quite a few solo kills. Believe me the best boost for solo pvpers would be tweaking the fw complex system. i said removal of KB stats because alot of players are scared to accept a fair fight not because of the isk loss but because a loss gonna ruin their leet KB stats and they just go call their friends. focusing solo pvp to FW complex its a stupid idea at best +1 - I'd tell you why but then I'll have to kill you. And to kill you I'd have to log in. And to log in I'd have to stop browsing these forums. Both you and me knows that'll never happen.
Jhagiti Tyran	Posted - 2010.12.13 17:50:00 - [100] Originally by: Infinity Ziona Originally by: Jhagiti Tyran Originally by: Infinity Ziona I'm one of the few people who still play EvE on hardmode. No you don't, you live in high sec killing newbs and noobs in poorly fitted ships and industrial ships. Grow some balls, throw off the training wheels and leave high sec before you go around posting about how hardcore you are. Says the guy whose only solo kills in over a year are 3 frigates, an industrial and a t1 cruiser. Coming from you that means less than nothing, your kills are worthless and you lack the balls to leave high sec and so what if I no longer have the time to do much solo roaming anymore and prefer small gang fights now but if I could be bothered to go through my kills I am 100% sure I can produce a lot more decent solo kills than you can. Anyone can kill the things you can yet most do not go around posting that they play "EVE on hardmode"

Infinity Ziona Minmatar Cloakers	Posted - 2010.12.13 18:01:00 - [101] Edited by: Infinity Ziona on 13/12/2010 18:02:42 Originally by: Jhagiti Tyran Originally by: Infinity Ziona Originally by: Jhagiti Tyran Originally by: Infinity Ziona I'm one of the few people who still play EvE on hardmode. No you don't, you live in high sec killing newbs and noobs in poorly fitted ships and industrial ships. Grow some balls, throw off the training wheels and leave high sec before you go around posting about how hardcore you are. Says the guy whose only solo kills in over a year are 3 frigates, an industrial and a t1 cruiser. Coming from you that means less than nothing, your kills are worthless and you lack the balls to leave high sec and so what if I no longer have the time to do much solo roaming anymore and prefer small gang fights now but if I could be bothered to go through my kills I am 100% sure I can produce a lot more decent solo kills than you can. Anyone can kill the things you can yet most do not go around posting that they play "EVE on hardmode" I have no interest in you or your gangs of silliness. You sit in groups of 9 to over 100 players and kill solo ships. I'm sure they're tough and exciting fights for you but they scream of being afraid to take risks to me. Something you are accusing me of. My rules are simple, I declare war on alliances of 100's players. My goal is to kill as many people as possible without dying. If I die I end the war immediately and give the person who killed me a T3. Thats my game and thats what I enjoy doing. Its a lot harder to track down and kill a specific group of players outnumbering you hundreds to 1 and survive then sitting in a huddle of like minded bears pretending to be pirates and shooting random solo players. When you want to pay my subscription you can tell me how to play. Until then, since you have no idea about solo play and don't do it, you have nothing to offer on the topic. Have a nice day. --------------------------------------------- Hate Bots / RMT? Do something worthwhile and good for EvE and cause tears and anguish for others, while doing absolutely nothing yourself! Join up.
Jhagiti Tyran	Posted - 2010.12.13 18:09:00 - [102] Edited by: Jhagiti Tyran on 13/12/2010 18:11:17 Lack of risk taking? so what if you dec carebear alliances you don't leave high sec and open yourself to the risk of non consensual pvp you lack the balls to go where you might not always have the ability to control who can and cannot shoot you. I don't care how you play the game I just find it hilarious that you seem to think you are a cut above other players but lack the testicular fortitude to leave high sec and then make it even funnier by chestbeating about how hardcore you are. Regarding my kills, yes there are plenty of ganks, who is going to turn down a kill if one presents itself when roaming in a small gang? but the difference between you and me is that I am not pretending to be 7337 and I took off my training wheels long ago and left high sec.
Velendil Soritenshi	Posted - 2010.12.13 18:10:00 - [103] Originally by: Infinity Ziona I have no interest in you or your gangs of silliness. You sit in groups of 9 to over 100 players and kill solo ships. I'm sure they're tough and exciting fights for you but they scream of being afraid to take risks to me. Something you are accusing me of. My rules are simple, I declare war on alliances of 100's players. My goal is to kill as many people as possible without dying. If I die I end the war immediately and give the person who killed me a T3. Thats my game and thats what I enjoy doing. Its a lot harder to track down and kill a specific group of players outnumbering you hundreds to 1 and survive then sitting in a huddle of like minded bears pretending to be pirates and shooting random solo players. When you want to pay my subscription you can tell me how to play. Until then, since you have no idea about solo play and don't do it, you have nothing to offer on the topic. Have a nice day. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about seeing as you have very limited experience with this game and on top of that you are full of ****.
Infinity Ziona Minmatar Cloakers	Posted - 2010.12.13 18:14:00 - [104] Yawn Did I touch a nerve there boys? --------------------------------------------- Hate Bots / RMT? Do something worthwhile and good for EvE and cause tears and anguish for others, while doing absolutely nothing yourself! Join up.
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2010.12.13 18:57:00 - [105] Originally by: 1600 RT Originally by: Cearain Originally by: 1600 RT the best boost for solo fight would be the removal of KB stats It depends on how the killboard ranks people. If you look at the top 1000 pvpers on battleclinic you will see quite a few solo kills. Believe me the best boost for solo pvpers would be tweaking the fw complex system. i said removal of KB stats because alot of players are scared to accept a fair fight not because of the isk loss but because a loss gonna ruin their leet KB stats and they just go call their friends. focusing solo pvp to FW complex its a stupid idea at best What leet kb stats are you talking about? If the killboard gives better rewards for killing something solo than for bringing friends then the killboard will not be a good reason to call friends. When you say ôfocusing solo pvp to FW complex its a stupid idea at best ô IÆm not sure what you mean. If they make changes in fw that improve solo pvp, how that a stupid idea? Do you think FW should be more blobby? IÆm not saying solo pvp should only be viable in fw. IÆm saying it would be easy to make fw so that it would be a great place for solo and tiny gang pvpers. -Cearain Make fw occupancy pvp instead of pve: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906
Deserek Calani Caldari IMMERSION CORP	Posted - 2010.12.13 19:10:00 - [106] I don't think Solo PvP is quite dead yet. I've lost countless Rifters due to ganks, rats, or wardecs (mostly wardecs, that's changing now. And I love my Rifters), but I still have fun. In fact, I've never, EVER, been in a Solo PvP fight that I've won. But it's always fun. ISK loss is a big problem for me, as well. The issue being that I almost never fly anything that I can afford to replace. I think, to encourage Solo PvP more, when your gang gets owned by one little ship, it should hurt more so than it would if you were solo. It would encourage gangs to put a little more thought in to what they're doing, and if people aren't willing to take the risk, then they can solo. I think it's quite simple. I could be wrong, however, due to my severe lack of experience in PvP. "Women; Whatever you give a woman, she will make greater. Give her a sperm, she will make a baby. Give her a house and she will make you a home, give her groceries and she will give you a meal. Give h
Infinity Ziona Minmatar Cloakers	Posted - 2010.12.13 20:10:00 - [107] The problem with solo is you need to do the job of 3 to 4 ships. You need to be tackler, dps, tank and ecm all in one. In comparison to a gang who can be one of each (frig, battleship, RR logistics and ewar boat). As far as I'm concerned that's fine and normal. 4 ships should always kill 1 ship. However CCP went a few steps further. They declared that no ship should be a solopwnmobile and went on a nerfing spree, nerfing lock times, mobility, speed, ewar, and prenerfing leadership skills, recons, black ops, repair drones. Pretty much anything that could give a soloer a slight chance to get a kill before exploding into little bits of scrap metal. Not happy with that they then boosted gangs, giving them 25% boosts to all sorts of attributes, from speed, resists, active and passive tanking. As well as a passive ability to warp to members. They then added remote reps, remote cap transfers, remote shield transfers, remote sensor boosting and so on. Some of this stuff I have no problem with, some of it is unnecessarily stupid. All of it makes solo a lot harder. The fear of solopwnmobiles was stupid. No solo player, even in a solopwnmobile, is a threat to multiple players. I could buy and pilot a SC, its quite frankly a solopwnmobile, do you see people out there soloing in them. No because the natural reaction to a player soloing in a SC is to get a mass of players and gank them. There was no reason to prenerf the ships they prenerfed in the fear that solo players would own the EvE galaxy. The natural enemy of such a thing is a group of players and they are everywhere. Leadership skills. Only allowing them to apply to gangs was stupid and hurt solo players. If I spend the time to train leadership skills I should get the bonus that leadership gives. An expert in martial arts doesn't stop being an expert in martial arts as soon as their students leave the room and leadership should work the same way. A gang with a leadership character will still bbq a solo player with leadership skills because 1) its a gang and 2) each member of the gang gets the exact same bonus. Soloing vs gangs is like turning up to a fight by yourself against 10 people, then the referee comes out and goes, oh hey, they're a gang so despite them having 20 fists vs your 2, we're gonna give them baseball bats, a doctor, super speed potions, padded armor and oh yeah, we're gonna tie one of your hands behind your back... and since one of them is a martial artist, they'll all suddenly martial artists, oh, your a martial artist, well you can't use that in this fight. good luck! --------------------------------------------- Hate Bots / RMT? Do something worthwhile and good for EvE and cause tears and anguish for others, while doing absolutely nothing yourself! Join up.
Vmir Gallahasen Gallente United Mining And Distribution	Posted - 2010.12.13 21:08:00 - [108] Originally by: Infinity Ziona However CCP went a few steps further. They declared that no ship should be a solopwnmobile and went on a nerfing spree, nerfing lock times, mobility, speed, ewar, and prenerfing leadership skills, recons, black ops, repair drones. All those things benefit the blob as much as they benefit the solo player ...? Originally by: Infinity Ziona The fear of solopwnmobiles was stupid. No solo player, even in a solopwnmobile, is a threat to multiple players. Nos domi during the nano age
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE	Posted - 2010.12.13 21:14:00 - [109] Edited by: Misanth on 13/12/2010 21:17:15 Originally by: Infinity Ziona stuff +1 Originally by: Vmir Gallahasen Nos domi during the nano age Well so was 7 heat sink geddons, cruise Kestrels etc, but that's pretty few cases over seven years. - I'd tell you why but then I'll have to kill you. And to kill you I'd have to log in. And to log in I'd have to stop browsing these forums. Both you and me knows that'll never happen.
Yvella Minmatar	Posted - 2010.12.13 21:17:00 - [110] So! Sandbox, lots of people playing Eve for different reasons. People thinking the same game is a very different thing. Soloing should be hard (that why it is fun). Is it becoming too hard, for anything less than a heavily dedicated player with a tonne of time on their hands (student?). Is something being removed from the sandbox and is it possible to lessen this trend without damage other areas in the play-pit? My solo has nothing to do with honourable 1vs 1, I fully endorse trying to get kills off a gang solo, I fully expect this to be terribly hard. That is fine. Dying horribly to blob camps, with silly quick locks, or being ECMÆd by 25 people is just lame. There is nothing fun about this for me. This has been most of my recent experience(I am pretty terrible at this game ) Some ideas mooted so far that may merit further thought: -Remove local from 0.0 (scare those bears) -Get rid of KMÆs??? -Lock time. Sensor strength is a legacy from a time when tracking and sig did not protect little ships from nig ships. Could mega gate -camping be reduced discouraged this way. Clearly the introduction of regional gates, means CCP recognise tard-camps as an issue.

Alara IonStorm Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate	Posted - 2010.12.13 21:19:00 - [111] Originally by: Misanth Well so was 7 heat sink geddons, cruise Kestrels etc, but that's pretty few cases over seven years. Calvary Raven! \o/ -- I can not decide on a sig yet. Under Construction.
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE	Posted - 2010.12.13 21:19:00 - [112] Originally by: Yvella introduction of regional gates Yeah gotta give CCP that, it's one of the best things they added in recent years tbh. - I'd tell you why but then I'll have to kill you. And to kill you I'd have to log in. And to log in I'd have to stop browsing these forums. Both you and me knows that'll never happen.
Alara IonStorm Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate	Posted - 2010.12.13 21:23:00 - [113] Originally by: Misanth Originally by: Yvella introduction of regional gates Yeah gotta give CCP that, it's one of the best things they added in recent years tbh. Whats the difference between a Stargate, Constellation Gate and Regional Gate that hurts camps? -- I can not decide on a sig yet. Under Construction.
Yvella Minmatar	Posted - 2010.12.13 21:25:00 - [114] Originally by: Alara IonStorm Originally by: Misanth Originally by: Yvella introduction of regional gates Yeah gotta give CCP that, it's one of the best things they added in recent years tbh. Whats the difference between a Stargate, Constellation Gate and Regional Gate that hurts camps? Regional gates are big, and thus very difficult (not impossible) to camp. So the camps have moved in a system by one gate...
Parsee789	Posted - 2010.12.13 21:31:00 - [115] Killboards ruin eve. People are too obsessed with their scores and rankings to risk a fight unless they are fairly or even absolutely certain that they will win.
Shiho Weitong Caldari Koa Mai Hoku	Posted - 2010.12.13 21:37:00 - [116] Originally by: Ganagati Originally by: Shiho Weitong Originally by: hjgjgfgfgsj It's rediculously hard, you cannot spend your time jumping through lowsec systems without getting double webbed by a loki at 40km and missiles spammed on you by his buddy in a legion at a gate any more. So after the double web, why don't you just warp away? I mean.. Align time after double web on anything that it's reasonable to solo with in lowsec would be less than 2 seconds... Has anyone ever had a pvp match where you weren't immediately scrammed/disrupted? >_> If a loki and a legion both get a lock on you before you are aligned and out, you're in the wrong ship. That was kinda my point. ----------- Why is it called common sense, when it's clearly very rare. I had a mind once, but alas, I seem to have forgotten where I left it. Originally by: Tchell Dahhn You win, and thank you.
Yvella Minmatar	Posted - 2010.12.13 21:42:00 - [117] Edited by: Yvella on 13/12/2010 21:42:26 Originally by: Shiho Weitong Originally by: Ganagati Originally by: Shiho Weitong Originally by: hjgjgfgfgsj It's rediculously hard, you cannot spend your time jumping through lowsec systems without getting double webbed by a loki at 40km and missiles spammed on you by his buddy in a legion at a gate any more. So after the double web, why don't you just warp away? I mean.. Align time after double web on anything that it's reasonable to solo with in lowsec would be less than 2 seconds... Has anyone ever had a pvp match where you weren't immediately scrammed/disrupted? >_> If a loki and a legion both get a lock on you before you are aligned and out, you're in the wrong ship. That was kinda my point. I have seen remote sensor boosted instalocking arty lockies one time stealth bombers before they cloak. Ask Genos about them, they got pretty annoyed I remember (come back CVAs Providence I miss you ) Moving on from whining, what mechanic could replace the outdated scan res mechanic? Or is this not worth thinking about?
Haniblecter Teg F.R.E.E. Explorer The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.12.13 21:47:00 - [118] I love killboard stats and to say that solo pvp is effected is silly, most just don't want to have to 'fc' their gang of one. Plus, its an mmo, people should want to group up. ----------------- Friends Forever
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE	Posted - 2010.12.13 23:30:00 - [119] Originally by: Haniblecter Teg I love killboard stats and to say that solo pvp is effected is silly, most just don't want to have to 'fc' their gang of one. Plus, its an mmo, people should want to group up. Not everyone enjoys lagfests, blobs, spies, 0.0, quiet coms, and forced ship doctrines. If you change your last sentence to "incentitive" instead of "should want", and add in "but have the doors open for optional gameplay", then I'd buy that. Killboard stats are definately fun, I love as well. However I don't mind losing ships, and I don't mind flying either very cheap or very expensive ships. That's where it kicks in for some players. They don't want to lose ships, they don't want to fly cheap "as other ships are better", and they don't want to fly expensive "too expensive to lose". Not to mention what killboards do to recruitment policies, and how players feel about the pure potential that killboards might affect their future applications. - I'd tell you why but then I'll have to kill you. And to kill you I'd have to log in. And to log in I'd have to stop browsing these forums. Both you and me knows that'll never happen.
Xuthi Minmatar Monsters	Posted - 2010.12.14 00:35:00 - [120] Edited by: Xuthi on 14/12/2010 00:36:54 I have to disagree, I dont have all that much problem finding fights fairly regulary(amongst alot of ganks, but I am talking about proper fights) when I go out roaming in cruisers/dessys/frigs, weather that be 1v1 or cruiser vs frig gang etc etc. Think area plays a big part in it, FW pipe where I live I often see other solo pilots out and roaming, generally either pirates or FW members. Sometimes its slow and you dont find anything for hours, othertimes you login and find a fight in minuites, just the way it goes i guess.



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