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TheGoodTrader
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Posted - 2010.12.14 16:03:00 -
[91]
Simple solution. Remove local.
You can't worry about what you can't see, right?
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Kabaal S'sylistha
Caldari Technomage Trilogy Comrades-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.12.14 17:07:00 -
[92]
Not sure why people who use it as a psychological tactic are opposed to anti-afk measures. I think knowing the person is watching would have a greater impact.
I also support no local nullsec. -More Pewpew, Less QQ- |
Corporal Punishment08
NosWaffle Nostradamus Effect
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Posted - 2010.12.14 17:56:00 -
[93]
Originally by: StarCEO First: to those that pop up the psychological war argument:
You're talking about that implemented in a game that people play for fun.
Its like saying "I'm not making the game fun for you so you don't play thous I win".
Second:
If other options were open to us we would of went other way.
Oh and:
We have no issues with good old fights and getting hit. This is not about how hard 0.0 life is, it's about a game mechanic been abused and used to ruin other peoples gaming time.
Look at it this way: If you need to sleep 8h a day and that is the time the enemy wakes up to play. How is it fair to use a game mechanic to ruin hes game time???
By your logic, PVP itself is a flawed game mechanic that should be removed. I dunno about you but it sure ruins MY day when I lose an expensive ship, especially when I didn't go out looking for a fight. I don't have fun crashing and burning. So in a game I play for fun, if I'm not having fun, well that's a flawed game mechanic and should be removed, right?
WRONG.
Originally by: StarCEO Troll or not so far almost everyone that called me/my post noob or troll or w/e didn't have a valid argument on why EVE should keep AFK cloaking as a weapon / why CCP shouldn't change Cloaking except that they do it and it works.
As for the good part in this matter I see good ideas that might actually work out. Just hope ccp's reading here :)
Still so far best ideas here are the probe and/or tower mod cloaked ship scanner with like 10min scan results delay. And yes I can understand the possible abuse as in scanning someone cloaked that just entering the system but that can be fixed with some kind of timer (as in don't report anyone that entered after scanning started) or w/e.
Look, in most of Sci-Fi history (Taking this from what I know, which is Star Trek, which is probably why noone's brought this up yet), cloaking has meant unscannable. When a ship is cloaked, you can not find it. Now of course, there have been episodes where they were able to find cloaked ships, but this has been due to some dysfunctional system on board said cloaked ship. So in conclusion, if you want to change cloaking, just take it out of the game, or change the name, cause it won't be "Cloaking" if someone can scan you down.
This game is all about choice. The AFK Cloaker CHOOSES to sit in your system cloaked all day, not making any isk or really doing anything fun.
You CHOOSE to let his actions effect your game play. Fine, but don't whine about your decision. Like I already said, there are ways to stop AFK Cloakers, you're just choosing to ignore those tactics. You want some simple fix where you don't have to do anything at all. the only reason they go AFK, is because when they first arrive in system, you CHOOSE not to go after them, but rather, you let their presence effect your isk making ability.
In this game, you can't choose when and where other people decide to bring the pain, or what tactics they choose to use, you can only control your decisions, and how you deal with the situation presented. Complaining that something is broken or flawed in game is a pathetic way of dealing with an adverse situation. I hope you don't go about the rest of your life with this approach.
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Nahkep Narmelion
Gallente CALIMA COLLABORATIVE
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Posted - 2010.12.14 18:32:00 -
[94]
Originally by: DarkAegix
AFK cloaking is 100% safe.
I suggest that you attempt to merge your head with a brick wall. Please report your findings. Thank you.
Maybe if you guys would camp the entrance to your systems every now and then....
Here is what you do. Get some guys in fast ships. But a few bubbles on the gate. Drop a few cans as well. Get some guys in DPS ships. Wait for people to jump in. If they aren't cloaking ships kill them. If they are try to de-cloak them and kill them. It takes some skill and practice, but this notion that a cloaking ship is 100% safe is silly.
And yeah, I know a ship that has bypassed all those risks and finally gets in system and is at a safe and cloaked is pretty much 100% safe. He is also no threat and can't do anything (doing anything would increase his risk). To maintain that level of safety is is pretty much the same as spinning in station.
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Hooligan Tool
Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.12.14 19:07:00 -
[95]
If there is a cloaked neutral in your system, adapt. You can quickly tell whether someone is there to actively do something or not. If he drops a gang on you, it's null-sec and you should expect to lose ships. I used to live in null-sec and got to know which neutrals to worry about and which were harmless within a day or so of their first appearance. If a cloaked neutral keeps you from ratting, it's not his fault -- it's yours.
Cloaks and cloaking ships do not need to be changed. That is all. ----- Ambush. Hit and run. Gank before tank. Speed is life. |
Ryiah Bydern
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Posted - 2010.12.14 19:12:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Hooligan Tool If there is a cloaked neutral in your system, adapt. You can quickly tell whether someone is there to actively do something or not. If he drops a gang on you, it's null-sec and you should expect to lose ships. I used to live in null-sec and got to know which neutrals to worry about and which were harmless within a day or so of their first appearance. If a cloaked neutral keeps you from ratting, it's not his fault -- it's yours.
Cloaks and cloaking ships do not need to be changed. That is all.
+1 from me... op learn to deal with afk cloakers. rat in groups or go back to empire.
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StarCEO
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Posted - 2010.12.15 17:55:00 -
[97]
we have adapt but this still doesn't make it right.
YOu say 0.0 space shouldn't be free of risk, than how do you explain cloaking at ss. You'r arguments against my post can be very well turned around in my favor.
Only reason you keep using them in this post its because you need afk cloaking as you are users not because you are right.
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.12.15 18:26:00 -
[98]
Originally by: StarCEO we have adapt but this still doesn't make it right.
YOu say 0.0 space shouldn't be free of risk, than how do you explain cloaking at ss. You'r arguments against my post can be very well turned around in my favor.
Only reason you keep using them in this post its because you need afk cloaking as you are users not because you are right.
cloaking is as risk free as sitting inside the pos force field or being docked in an outpost. in some cases it is like little man's pos, where he can wait until the blob passed by or something.
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SGT FUNYOUN
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.12.15 20:19:00 -
[99]
Negative Ghost rider. AFK cloaking is only a problem if it causes server lag. As it does not do this then it is not a problem. This issue has been beaten to death with its own limbs, then ground up in a tree shredder, pureed in a blender, burned to a crisp with a nuclear blast, reincarnated twice, then blown to bits in a horrible plane crash, only to be resurrected to do it all over again.
Their is NO good way to "fix" AFK cloaking. Besides AFK cloaking is a great tactic for keeping entire corporations worth of weaklings like you spinning in your stations until such time as I can bring my 200 battleship fleet into your area to burn your POS down around your ears destroying all your stuff, extra ships, your clones, and taking your system sovereignty from you.
I can take my one Nemesis SB and sit for hours even days on end out in Null sec inside your system and keep you from ever exiting the POS. This is called Cloak Trapping. Same tactic is used in real life combat. A sniper team crawls into the enemies perimeter and hides for days on end. Then when the time is right they kill the enemy leader and effectively remove the serpent's head.
Grow a pair and learn how to play better. Yargh. I be SGT Funyoun. King of the Pirates!!! |
Rek Seven
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Posted - 2010.12.16 00:30:00 -
[100]
I read the first post but forgive me for not reading the other.
I have no problem with the idea of a cloak timer as long as I can stay permanently cloaked when I'm active. However, what happens if i need to go do something in RL? I just log off in space?
Also, if you can make a macro for a miner or a ratter, why couldn't you do it to click a cloak button?
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StarCEO
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Posted - 2010.12.16 01:08:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Rek Seven I read the first post but forgive me for not reading the other.
I have no problem with the idea of a cloak timer as long as I can stay permanently cloaked when I'm active. However, what happens if i need to go do something in RL? I just log off in space?
Also, if you can make a macro for a miner or a ratter, why couldn't you do it to click a cloak button?
Loging out in space is not a problem.
Also this is just a idea and yes it can be exploited(thats why I said it would need to be supported by some game rule). Main benefits from this, is that other better ideas poped up here. :)
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Nahkep Narmelion
Gallente CALIMA COLLABORATIVE
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Posted - 2010.12.16 01:19:00 -
[102]
Originally by: StarCEO we have adapt but this still doesn't make it right.
YOu say 0.0 space shouldn't be free of risk, than how do you explain cloaking at ss. You'r arguments against my post can be very well turned around in my favor.
Only reason you keep using them in this post its because you need afk cloaking as you are users not because you are right.
Yeah, and look at the draw backs of that safety. To maintain it you can do nothing. If I warp anywhere I might land near an object and be decloaked and killed. If I engage you to shoot you, you can shoot back. If I try to leave the system I have to drop my cloak.
The only way to maintain that level of safety is to be absolutely and precisely zero threat to you. Or to put it differently, in maintaining that level of safety you are totally free to undock and rat at your leisure. Run sanctum after sanctum.
The only time I face a risk....is when I put you at risk...which seems only fair.
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YoRiKoJi
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Posted - 2010.12.16 13:24:00 -
[103]
I've changed my opinion. We should immediately remove this menace!!
Also, all guns and launchers should be deactivated upon entering null-sec. All ammo should immediately be removed from ships and weapons until said ship leaves null-sec. 0.0 MUST be made safe for all who inhabit it. Anyone firing in null-sec (would have to be a hax!@!!) will be perma-banned immediately.
I'm joining the "Make Null-sec Safe" campaign. please join me.
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Infinity Ziona
Minmatar Cloakers
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Posted - 2010.12.16 16:10:00 -
[104]
Originally by: darius mclever
Originally by: StarCEO we have adapt but this still doesn't make it right.
YOu say 0.0 space shouldn't be free of risk, than how do you explain cloaking at ss. You'r arguments against my post can be very well turned around in my favor.
Only reason you keep using them in this post its because you need afk cloaking as you are users not because you are right.
cloaking is as risk free as sitting inside the pos force field or being docked in an outpost. in some cases it is like little man's pos, where he can wait until the blob passed by or something.
Just taking my newbie alt cloaker into 0.0 to cloak in your systems I got killed and barely got through the second time (only got an improved cloak). Got decloaked by a really good inty pilot and then popped by no less then 50 idiots. So yes it does have risks. --------------------------------------------- Hate Bots / RMT? Do something worthwhile and good for EvE and cause tears and anguish for others, while doing absolutely nothing yourself! Join up. |
Flesh Slurper
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Posted - 2010.12.16 16:30:00 -
[105]
A terrible idea. Not supported.
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TheGoodTrader
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Posted - 2010.12.16 18:07:00 -
[106]
Originally by: YoRiKoJi I've changed my opinion. We should immediately remove this menace!!
Also, all guns and launchers should be deactivated upon entering null-sec. All ammo should immediately be removed from ships and weapons until said ship leaves null-sec. 0.0 MUST be made safe for all who inhabit it. Anyone firing in null-sec (would have to be a hax!@!!) will be perma-banned immediately.
I'm joining the "Make Null-sec Safe" campaign. please join me.
\
Yes comrade! Furthermore, only people with blue standing should be able to move within 1 AU of you in 0.0, and the belt rats must destroy themselves so as to allow for safe ISK making. Finally, I propose an increase of all resists on player ships to 100% while in nullsec. NULLSEC MUST BE MADE BEARSEC.
I am ashamed of those words.
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Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
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Posted - 2010.12.16 18:15:00 -
[107]
Lets imagine you do change cloaks so that they require reactivation. Whats to stop someone from just using an unprobable stealth bomber or t3 to camp you uncloaked?
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Nahkep Narmelion
Gallente CALIMA COLLABORATIVE
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Posted - 2010.12.16 23:02:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Gizznitt Malikite
Lets imagine you do change cloaks so that they require reactivation. Whats to stop someone from just using an unprobable stealth bomber or t3 to camp you uncloaked?
Nothing.
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Jason Travers
Space 1999
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Posted - 2010.12.17 07:54:00 -
[109]
Don't even need a complicated macro for the timer. It's called autofire. it's a simple cheap free download available on most fantasy MMO player class sites. I used it when I played Ever Quest for foraging. You can run it in the background and It will press the hot-key as often or as fast as you set the timing for. Mommy that mean ole bear just dukied in my sandbox. :( |
Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2010.12.17 12:32:00 -
[110]
Edited by: Robert Caldera on 17/12/2010 12:33:02 AFK cloaking is a fine and required tactic. If an afk cloaker prevents you from doing something:
- stop being a terrible noob - join a real non-pet alliance - go next system for ratting
as pet or noob you deserve getting killed by some lone "afk cloaker" (lol), HTFU, empire is that way ->
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Jokerface666
Amarr The Warp Squad
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Posted - 2010.12.17 13:00:00 -
[111]
Edited by: Jokerface666 on 17/12/2010 13:06:30 Edited by: Jokerface666 on 17/12/2010 13:01:31 2 things from me.
1: KEEP CLOAKING HOW IT IS, IN REALLITY YOU WOULD BE ABLE TO SLEEP IN YOUR CLOAKED SHIP!
2: MAKE IT POSSIBLE TO FIND CLOAKED SHIPS SOMEHOW! THERE WE GO, IF YOU SLEEP YOU'LL GO BOOM like scanning them down, but they have a badass sig radius so you'll need like special probes for it, and ages to find them. or make the cloaking module randomli malfunction like 2% of the runs go wrong. and you decloak.
Br, Joker o7
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StarCEO
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Posted - 2010.12.21 07:26:00 -
[112]
Well from a totally different perspective, If AFK cloaking is a valid tactic than CCP should also validate using a boot to make you isk while you're sleeping.
Its basically same think.
You either pvp afk or pve afk. So then maybe we can all make a AFK miner alt or mission runner corp and make isk in empire while a AFK cloaker "beats" us in 0.0.
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Infinity Ziona
Minmatar Cloakers
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Posted - 2010.12.21 10:19:00 -
[113]
Originally by: StarCEO Well from a totally different perspective, If AFK cloaking is a valid tactic than CCP should also validate using a boot to make you isk while you're sleeping.
Its basically same think.
You either pvp afk or pve afk. So then maybe we can all make a AFK miner alt or mission runner corp and make isk in empire while a AFK cloaker "beats" us in 0.0.
Like this?
But automated? --------------------------------------------- Hate Bots / RMT? Do something worthwhile and good for EvE and cause tears and anguish for others, while doing absolutely nothing yourself! Join up. |
StarCEO
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Posted - 2010.12.21 11:45:00 -
[114]
lol dont really care what but if theres a button to "pvp" afk there should be one to mine and run missions.....
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2010.12.21 13:18:00 -
[115]
Originally by: StarCEO Well from a totally different perspective, If AFK cloaking is a valid tactic than CCP should also validate using a boot to make you isk while you're sleeping.
Its basically same think.
You either pvp afk or pve afk. So then maybe we can all make a AFK miner alt or mission runner corp and make isk in empire while a AFK cloaker "beats" us in 0.0.
Pray tell, how would you use a boot to make ISK and what is "basically same think"?
Plus it's only the weak minded and fail players, that are affected by assumed AFK cloakers and you fit both categories.
Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it.
Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive. |
Rhinanna
Minmatar Volition Cult The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2010.12.21 14:47:00 -
[116]
AFK cloaking is BAD. Non-AFK cloaking is GOOD.
Why? Because if you are going to PvP you should have to be at the keyboard. Just like for every other PvP activity in the game. AFK cloaking is the ONLY legal activity that you can do which will hurt your enemies while you aren't at the keyboard.
As for people saying AFK cloakers aren't a threat, well yes if you could be sure they where AFK then they aren't. But please please tell me how you can defend against a SB decloaking, insta-locking and pointing you can lighting a covert cyno.
Even if you 1 shot the SB, by the time you've got the lock you've already had their ships jumping in point you so you are dead. Miners can be 1 shotted by a SB's bombs, it doesn't take many torps to finish them off even if they have an OK tank as well. Using a PvP ship is not a defence, there isn't an effective defence.
As for saying don't let them in system... you are saying the defence vs an AFK tactic is to be online 23.5/7 to defend against it..... cos its the only way you'll stop them getting in, also a decent player in a SB or covert ops will simply walk through ANY camp you put in their way. They were designed to. Even with 100 players round a gate you can only really make it slightly difficult.
Now if a cloaky couldn't fit a cyno then there would be FAR less of an issue, the fact at the moment with the state of cynos, you may as well have an enemy cap fleet in system if there is a cloaker there.
Personally what I would do is introudce 'calibration' When you engage the cloak you get a calibration screen appear, it would take approx 5 mins to 'lose calibration' and in that time you'd have to move the pointer to the center of the calibration circle, which would slowly slip out again.
Various anti-cloak methods could cause ships nearby to more quickly lose calibration, meaning there will be more of a level of skill to stay cloaked vs dedicated anti-cloaking ships. -The sword is only as sharp as the one who wields it. Drenzul (My normal internet tag) |
Daedalus Arcova
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Posted - 2010.12.21 19:58:00 -
[117]
AFK cloaking is not a legitimate tactic. It isn't PVP, because that would require the cloaker to actually be playing the game.
Simple way to get rid of both AFK cloakers and all forms of botting: Every 2 hours or so, the server should demand an anti-bot verification code to be entered (you know the ones: a random word that's been twisted and scrambled to make it indecipherable to bots), just like when you register for forums, email addresses, and almost anything else online. If the code isn't entered within 15 minutes of it being requested, simply boot the player from the server.
At a stroke, that could solve the botting plague (and it is a far greater plague on 0.0 gameplay than AFK cloaking) and AFK cloaking itself.
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2010.12.21 20:14:00 -
[118]
no, afk cloaking is legit and required to stop noobs endless carebearing.
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Rhinanna
Minmatar Volition Cult The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2010.12.21 20:46:00 -
[119]
And you think you've got a god given right to stop them playing the game while you are AFK because?
If you are going to actively stop them thats fine. What you want is to keep your way to grief enemies without having to put any effort in yourself. -The sword is only as sharp as the one who wields it. Drenzul (My normal internet tag) |
Thyme Wasted
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Posted - 2010.12.21 21:13:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Daedalus Arcova AFK cloaking is not a legitimate tactic. It isn't PVP, because that would require the cloaker to actually be playing the game.
Simple way to get rid of both AFK cloakers and all forms of botting: Every 2 hours or so, the server should demand an anti-bot verification code to be entered (you know the ones: a random word that's been twisted and scrambled to make it indecipherable to bots), just like when you register for forums, email addresses, and almost anything else online. If the code isn't entered within 15 minutes of it being requested, simply boot the player from the server.
At a stroke, that could solve the botting plague (and it is a far greater plague on 0.0 gameplay than AFK cloaking) and AFK cloaking itself.
I'm not a botter, but seems to me that it wouldn't be too hard to 1) take a screencap 2) send it to a human 3) get a human response, all without involving someone playing the game. CAPTCHAS are not the perfect solution, and they do annoy real people.
BTW I love afk cloakers. Anyone who tries to use their space without being prepared to defend it should suffer.
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