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StarCEO
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Posted - 2010.12.11 09:45:00 -
[1]
First of all let me point out that I used to live in 0.0 and play the role of a battlefield scout. Providing infos on enemy fleet movements and "warp in" points sometimes at 5km from a enemy fleet. So I have a idea about how important cloaking is.
Problem is that the way cloaking works now makes it easy to be abused, and yes i'm talking about the "AFK cloakers".
Problem I have is someone entering a system, mwd-ing away from gate, hitting the cloak button and go to sleep.
Although a valid tactic in killing the enemy industry I believe that is also a game killer, as it ruins other peoples gaming while some guy sleeps for 8h.
Look at it this way: Right now as I am recovering from a inactive period I need to rat to buy plex. I can not rat because of "afk cloakers" that log in right after server starts and stay cloaked till next dt. We tried contacting them but they do not respond and do not know who they belong to as they are alts.
In my opinion that is a game killer like causing lag for a enemy fleet so they load grid in 5h only to wakeup in a station :) or abusing other game mechanics.
So i thought about it for a lil and come up with this 2 fixes:
On short therm:
Make the afk cloaking a illegal tactic. So that people can petition afk cloakers. It shouldn't be to hard to distinguish a afk cloaker from a guy been cloaked for w/e reason.(afk cloaker = dude cloaked for last 5h or so LOL) Yeah I know its not smthing great but better than nothing till a long therm fix will be up.
On long therm:
Make cloaking cycle like 2 or 3 minutes.
Remove the auto repeat option from it.
On last 30 sec a little red blinking txt appears on your screen similar to the self-destruct message telling you that you need to click button again to get you 2 (or 3 more minutes) of cloaking time or you decloak. Basically a refresh cloaking timer option.
NOw I know some of you would say that it will be easy to make some boot to keep refreshing the cloaking timer.
To aid this, a gaming rule about using the cloak to disturb the peoples gaming should also be implemented.
Well this is what i got so far. Feel free to pop in your ideas and comments.
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GhostKiller1
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Posted - 2010.12.11 10:01:00 -
[2]
Cloaking is a vital aspect of 0.0 ops on many levels and i completely agree that it should not be abused. My corp mates and i have had a rash of recent afk cloakers that have caused us unholy rage and forced us to log off because we couldnt move about the system we have been talking alot about how to fix the problem. The most viable way to fix it that we have come up with, without adding too much work for the devs has been to add a cycle time to the mod as you have suggested with no auto repeat. I had mentioned a 5 minute cycle time for t1 mods and 10 minute for t2 which is reasonable for the simple fact that it dosnt take anyone 5 or 10 minutes to scout a system and move on if thats what they are doing for their gang/hauler and anyone with decent probing skills should be able to find target ships in space with probes in under 10 minutes. Cloaking has long been abused and its high time ccp put a stop to it, if im going to pay for this game i want to be able to play it.
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Ciumatu
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Posted - 2010.12.11 10:22:00 -
[3]
I strongly agree.
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Dadbbad
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Posted - 2010.12.11 10:24:00 -
[4]
+1
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Bibbleibble
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Posted - 2010.12.11 10:26:00 -
[5]
You say you cannot rat because of AFK cloakers?
I think what you mean is you don't want to rat because of AFK cloakers, and the two are not the same at all.
AFK Cloaking is no more a game killer than any other form of PVP, it simply means that you have to actually take some risks whilst ratting. I am not going to say that you should want to take risks, or that you have to make money, but in this situation and in the location you are in, you need to recognise that the solution is most likely in you adapting.
Besides, what makes you approach to the game any better than AFK cloakers?
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Master CJ
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Posted - 2010.12.11 10:33:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Master CJ on 11/12/2010 10:34:31 I could not say it any better, I totally agree that CCP should do something about that, thank you!
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Coleman Strykr
Blackwater Syndicate White Angels.
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Posted - 2010.12.11 10:35:00 -
[7]
I believe this particular brand of harrasing opponents does need to be given some attention. I also think some way of addressing it only in 0.0 space should be used. So instead of adding a cycle timer to cloaking devices, maybe give us a sov reliant tower anchorable system scanner. The scanner should have a longish cycle time, say 10 minutes, so that it couldn't be used right away against any hostile force that enters your system. Basically a way for people living in 0.0 to be able to combat the problem as opposed to just docking up and being stuck unable to act because of what might happen.
It's a little more involved then jsut adding a time to cloaks, but it has the added benefit of not influencing the whole game which doesn't have as big of a problem with AFK cloaking.
Asta Coleman
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StarCEO
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Posted - 2010.12.11 10:36:00 -
[8]
OK genius think of it this way:
What if ever guy in eve will make a afk cloaking alt???
And how is it PVP to cloak in a system and go afk for 23h.
I have no problem getting overrun and steeped on. I have been before. Its the way of the game.
But you ever do that or don't.
You can not pvp afk. Cant you? Or maybe you one of them boot using guys and can LOL.
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Niklas
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Posted - 2010.12.11 10:38:00 -
[9]
Sleeper AI.
Give it to all NPCs. Make them target new people on the playing field, so those new peeps on the playing field don't have a free 500+ dps in damage. Quite a bit of it, sometimes even most of it(and sometimes less), will be directed at them.
Make them do mostly omni damage, with a bit of a racial damage preference if necessary, so you aren't required to leave gaping holes in your defenses for enemies to take advantage of. Thats like the ultimate free intel.
Its the good part of wormholes.. Anyone attacking you while you are preoccupied with rats will get some of those rats on them, so they must be prepared for it as well. It evens out the battle, and instead of hunter vs prey, its an actual fight. They still get the advantage of surprise, just not the advantage of knowing exactly what the enemies vulnerabilies are and lots of free dps on the target.
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JeanLuc Blindtard
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Posted - 2010.12.11 10:40:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Coleman Strykr I believe this particular brand of harrasing opponents does need to be given some attention. I also think some way of addressing it only in 0.0 space should be used. So instead of adding a cycle timer to cloaking devices, maybe give us a sov reliant tower anchorable system scanner. The scanner should have a longish cycle time, say 10 minutes, so that it couldn't be used right away against any hostile force that enters your system. Basically a way for people living in 0.0 to be able to combat the problem as opposed to just docking up and being stuck unable to act because of what might happen.
It's a little more involved then jsut adding a time to cloaks, but it has the added benefit of not influencing the whole game which doesn't have as big of a problem with AFK cloaking.
Asta Coleman
Hmmm didn't thought of it this way but it a good idea also.
Real nice.
Thx for replying. :)
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Dxella mkII
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Posted - 2010.12.11 10:57:00 -
[11]
I can agree, it is getting abused.
Tho the cycle time shouldnt be 2-3 min, it should rather be 5-10m, but yes this would be great
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Cecil Montague
Minmatar PCG Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.12.11 11:02:00 -
[12]
Originally by: StarCEO
You can not pvp afk. Cant you?
No you can't PvP while afk. So what is it about this person that isn't even at his/her keyboard that is so dangerous that you can't rat? -------------------------------------------------- "There is no such thing as an effective segment of totality." - Bruce Lee |
Cynara Fox
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Posted - 2010.12.11 11:03:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Bibbleibble You say you cannot rat because of AFK cloakers?
I think what you mean is you don't want to rat because of AFK cloakers, and the two are not the same at all.
AFK Cloaking is no more a game killer than any other form of PVP, it simply means that you have to actually take some risks whilst ratting. I am not going to say that you should want to take risks, or that you have to make money, but in this situation and in the location you are in, you need to recognise that the solution is most likely in you adapting.
This stands up more. +1 to this.
Besides, what makes you approach to the game any better than AFK cloakers?
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Black alWidow
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Posted - 2010.12.11 11:05:00 -
[14]
I have seen this topic brought up a lot and I thought a possible fix would be a cap only mod called an 'EMP purge' or something that would disable all cloaking devices in an entire system for 1 minute but would also leave that ship aggressed or as if it were using a cyno
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2010.12.11 11:06:00 -
[15]
Originally by: StarCEO Look at it this way: Right now as I am recovering from a inactive period I need to rat to buy plex. I can not rat because of "afk cloakers" that log in right after server starts and stay cloaked till next dt. We tried contacting them but they do not respond and do not know who they belong to as they are alts.
So he's stopping you forming a fleet with friends, ratting in PvP ships and using stargates to jump in other systems?
Sounds like he's hacking, you should petition it.
Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it.
Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive. |
Koldri Untham
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Posted - 2010.12.11 11:09:00 -
[16]
I agree that afk cloaking is very very bad thing. But moving towards cycle time and no autorepeat will probably do nothing. There are bots in EVE. There are keyboard macros for EVE client. I hope nobody would argue on that. So - it'll be no problem for bot to recloak every now and then. Yeah, you will sometimes see him on direct scanner for a second - but you already know he is here and he is in cloak ship, will his appearance on scanner be any useful for you? Nope. But that could ruin game for those who legally uses cloak to spy on enemies.
I'd suggest making afk cloak illegal and petitionable tactics. When you are sure guy is afk - you just tell GM, he performs his usual anti-bot check (chat or something else, idk how CCP deals with bots atm) and if you are correct - he gets his punishment.
But I am sure CCP would not do that 8) And neither do I see any other way to solve that problem.
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GhostKiller1
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Posted - 2010.12.11 11:13:00 -
[17]
How about adding a specific set of probes for locating cloaked ships? this would allow enemy cloak ships to still observe and report and maintain cloak but also give the opposition a chance to react to the cloaker??? instead of heading out in a fleet and having a gang of black ops ships dropped on their heads from afar...
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Ninetails o'Cat
League of Super Evil
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Posted - 2010.12.11 11:25:00 -
[18]
The only solution that is at all possible that doesn't result in cloaks becoming pretty much useless on anything not named Covert Ops or Recon ships, is if you tweak the recalibration time on normal cloaks to be about a minute long.
That way, if an AFK cloaker does decide to jump on someone in a system, they can have some advanced warning.
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StarCEO
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Posted - 2010.12.11 12:16:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Cecil Montague
Originally by: StarCEO
You can not pvp afk. Cant you?
No you can't PvP while afk. So what is it about this person that isn't even at his/her keyboard that is so dangerous that you can't rat?
Well you don't know when hes there and pops a cyno on you thats what it is so dangerous. thats what sops me from ratting and thats why its a game killer.
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StarCEO
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Posted - 2010.12.11 12:30:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: StarCEO Look at it this way: Right now as I am recovering from a inactive period I need to rat to buy plex. I can not rat because of "afk cloakers" that log in right after server starts and stay cloaked till next dt. We tried contacting them but they do not respond and do not know who they belong to as they are alts.
So he's stopping you forming a fleet with friends, ratting in PvP ships and using stargates to jump in other systems?
Sounds like he's hacking, you should petition it.
Stop pretending to be dumb people might take you for real.
We can not go in other systems as we're renting and this is our system.
Next time when you don't know something ask don't try look smart by making a stupid remark. It doesn't work.
Also pls stop posting here if you don't have a constructive comment.
Thank you.
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AFK Master
AFK Chartered System Management
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Posted - 2010.12.11 12:30:00 -
[21]
Originally by: StarCEO
Originally by: Cecil Montague
No you can't PvP while afk. So what is it about this person that isn't even at his/her keyboard that is so dangerous that you can't rat?
Well you don't know when hes there and pops a cyno on you thats what it is so dangerous. thats what sops me from ratting and thats why its a game killer.
So your issue is with cynos?
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2010.12.11 12:34:00 -
[22]
Originally by: StarCEO
Originally by: Mag's
So he's stopping you forming a fleet with friends, ratting in PvP ships and using stargates to jump in other systems?
Sounds like he's hacking, you should petition it.
Stop pretending to be dumb people might take you for real.
We can not go in other systems as we're renting and this is our system.
Next time when you don't know something ask don't try look smart by making a stupid remark. It doesn't work.
Also pls stop posting here if you don't have a constructive comment.
Thank you.
So that leaves ratting with friends in PvP ships. Does it stop you doing that?
P.S. It seems only I am pretending.
Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it.
Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive. |
StarCEO
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Posted - 2010.12.11 13:22:00 -
[23]
Originally by: AFK Master
Originally by: StarCEO
Originally by: Cecil Montague
No you can't PvP while afk. So what is it about this person that isn't even at his/her keyboard that is so dangerous that you can't rat?
Well you don't know when hes there and pops a cyno on you thats what it is so dangerous. thats what sops me from ratting and thats why its a game killer.
So your issue is with cynos?
No I was just saying that since he always logs in after dt and cloakes till next dt you never know when hes actually in front of computer ready to do damage.
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StarCEO
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Posted - 2010.12.11 13:25:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: StarCEO
Originally by: Mag's
So he's stopping you forming a fleet with friends, ratting in PvP ships and using stargates to jump in other systems?
Sounds like he's hacking, you should petition it.
Stop pretending to be dumb people might take you for real.
We can not go in other systems as we're renting and this is our system.
Next time when you don't know something ask don't try look smart by making a stupid remark. It doesn't work.
Also pls stop posting here if you don't have a constructive comment.
Thank you.
So that leaves ratting with friends in PvP ships. Does it stop you doing that?
P.S. It seems only I am pretending.
Yeah ratting with friends in pvp ships "good" idea. But what if no one is online or if the dude gets in 20 guys on us. what we suppose to do? get a cta to go ratting?
More and more it seems you're not pretending...
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Infinity Ziona
Minmatar Cloakers
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Posted - 2010.12.11 13:32:00 -
[25]
I agree entirely.
For this very reason I have recently created a corporation called Cloakers, our aim is to get as many alt members as possible, head out to 0.0 space and cloak when we sleep and work.
In this way we can put a stop to AFK Cloakers by using their own tactics on them. If you wish to help please join up or make your own non corp alt for this purpose.
Down with afk cloakers, up with anti-afk cloakers.
--------------------------------------------- Hate Bots / RMT? Do something worthwhile and good for EvE and cause tears and anguish for others, while doing absolutely nothing yourself! Join up. |
Natasha Hec
Gallente University of Caille
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Posted - 2010.12.11 13:42:00 -
[26]
Ratting in pvp ships on your own is perfectly easy, i have ratted myself up from -10 in a vaga in IT space.
You should really just man up, I mean I thought people who lived in 0.0 were meant to be the elite of eve.
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2010.12.11 14:00:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Mag''s on 11/12/2010 14:03:08
Originally by: StarCEO
Originally by: Mag's
So that leaves ratting with friends in PvP ships. Does it stop you doing that?
P.S. It seems only I am pretending.
Yeah ratting with friends in pvp ships "good" idea. But what if no one is online or if the dude gets in 20 guys on us. what we suppose to do? get a cta to go ratting?
More and more it seems you're not pretending...
If no one is online, then you either rat alone and take the risk or wait. As far as the 'He'll bring 20 friends' argument goes, you do know this is an MMO, right?
You need to focus on what exactly, it is that bothers you. So far it's AFK cloaking, cynos and now 20 guys. I wonder what you'll 'up the ante' with next.
No pretence on your part, that's for sure.
Edit:
Originally by: Natasha Hec Ratting in pvp ships on your own is perfectly easy, i have ratted myself up from -10 in a vaga in IT space.
You should really just man up, I mean I thought people who lived in 0.0 were meant to be the elite of eve.
He's special, not sure about elite.
Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it.
Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive. |
darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.12.11 14:20:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Natasha Hec Ratting in pvp ships on your own is perfectly easy, i have ratted myself up from -10 in a vaga in IT space.
You should really just man up, I mean I thought people who lived in 0.0 were meant to be the elite of eve.
ratting in a curse is also fun. or just a bomber. so when they come to annoy you, you can just cloak up and wait.
to the OP: as mag pointed out ratting in pvp ship works just nicely. other things you could do is stay aligned (if you really have to use the carrier or BS for ratting). or just bring some ECM drones or neuts to get rid of tackle.
but hey it is easier to ask for nerfing others than adapting am I right?
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Kabaal S'sylistha
Caldari Technomage Trilogy Comrades-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.12.11 15:12:00 -
[29]
My personal opinion is that cloaking itself needs some work all around, but honestly 'afk cloaking' is really the least of the issue. The anti-anticloaker folks have heard this thread 100 times before and have arguments handy, but I've happily ratted with a real afk cloaker in system, then had to sit in the POS/log when the cyno fleet was reported in intel just on the off chance he wasn't afk anymore so I can get where you're coming from.
He can't do anything while cloaked, he can't do anything while afk, what you decide to do is what you decide to do, etc etc. All this doesn't stop it from being a dumb mechanic, and I don't mean that in a 5 year old way. It's a one module "I r invis" with the active counters being: randomly stumble on them, or pretend they don't exist.
The anti-anticloakers are mostly right in that there are really no solutions that keep cloaking viable. If your issue is afk, I personally have no problem with afk timers that kick people out. If your issue is cloaking, the thread could go on for days with no solution other than "damn, this is complicated." And a viable solution is not remove cloaking from the game. Touch my falcon and I'll rage. -More Pewpew, Less QQ- |
Koldri Untham
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Posted - 2010.12.11 16:53:00 -
[30]
yeah anti-afk counters are also good idea besides they could speed the things up by freeing server resources :)
but again - any simple script could be moving mouse pointer and typing some symbols to make EVE client sure that he is not offline. so no luck here to
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