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Aamrr	Posted - 2010.12.13 18:36:00 - [1] TL;DR? "Check out mah setup" Most of us are familiar with the "Pantheon" setup popularized by Rooks and Kings in their "Clarion Call" youtube series. The video demonstrated the incredible effectiveness of spider-tanking setups on capital class vessels. However, that video was published in October of 2009, preceding both the change to Titan doomsdays and Dominion-related Supercarrier proliferation. Since then, the Aeon and Nyx have become the dominant supercarriers in capital ship engagements, and their incredible HP buffers have yielded to buffer tanking resist setups in favor of the active tanking ships of old. Instead, they rely upon cheaper carrier remote-rep support to provide their sustained EHP. However, with the sheer amount of DPS that post-Dominion titans and supercarriers bring to bear is immense and easily exceeds the capability of a triage carrier to endure. In response, I have created the following Archon fitting which brings the remote-repair tactics even further -- from the strategy of a RR-BS to a true logistics ship, drawing both its capacitor and its reps from similarly equipped fleetmates. The goals of this ship were twofold: Maximize EHP (to provide appropriate time to transfer reps) and maximize sustained remote repairs. By using only three capital reps and focusing on resists, this setup increases the sustained DPS per carrier from 5000, cited in the R&K video...to over 7000. I present the Guardian-Pantheon, a supercarrier escort platform with over 2 million EHP 7225 sustained remote rep, complete with requisite ECCM and sensor boosters. Stats with CR4, EE4, and CC4 implants [Archon, Guardian-Pantheon] Capital Energy Transfer Array I Capital Energy Transfer Array I Capital Remote Armor Repair System I Capital Remote Armor Repair System I Capital Remote Armor Repair System I Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution ECCM - Radar II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Damage Control II Armor Explosive Hardener II Armor Kinetic Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Armor EM Hardener II Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Large Remote Repair Augmentor I Large Remote Repair Augmentor I Large Remote Repair Augmentor I Einherji x10
Aamrr	Posted - 2010.12.13 21:05:00 - [2] Really? 144 views and nobody has anything to say?
Target Painter	Posted - 2010.12.13 21:09:00 - [3] Edited by: Target Painter on 13/12/2010 21:09:15 People are busy theorycrafting/EFT warrioring themselves. Or raging that you came up with a fit to make already nearly invulnerable ships even harder to kill. It's an interesting setup to be sure.
Aamrr	Posted - 2010.12.13 21:13:00 - [4] I'll tentatively take that as a compliment. I had been debating using remote SeBos and ECCMs. Does anyone have any opinions on this? I'm quite looking forward to seeing what the meta-2 capital modules from Incursion do to this setup, though I am concerned that they may be too expensive for sub-supercapital ships. I suppose it remains to be seen.
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux War.Pigs.	Posted - 2010.12.13 21:20:00 - [5] Originally by: Aamrr I'll tentatively take that as a compliment. I had been debating using remote SeBos and ECCMs. Does anyone have any opinions on this? I wouldn't do it. Its too easy to fail cascade on a single jam/damp. -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter - Blog got deleted when Evepress died -
Aamrr	Posted - 2010.12.13 22:40:00 - [6] That was my thought, too. Feels good to hear it from someone else, though.
Templar Dane Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2010.12.13 22:45:00 - [7] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Aamrr I'll tentatively take that as a compliment. I had been debating using remote SeBos and ECCMs. Does anyone have any opinions on this? I wouldn't do it. Its too easy to failscade to a single jam/damp. -Liang
Headerman Minmatar Metanoia. Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2010.12.13 22:47:00 - [8] That said, would a RR carrier have need for a Sebo? What would the locking time be onto another carrier with or without it?
Aamrr	Posted - 2010.12.13 23:06:00 - [9] Edited by: Aamrr on 13/12/2010 23:08:58 Originally by: Headerman That said, would a RR carrier have need for a Sebo? What would the locking time be onto another carrier with or without it? Honestly, not particularly hot. Looks like it'd be about 7.73 seconds to lock another archon with this. And then you've got the 10 second capital armor rep delay... ...well, EHP only goes so far. With the SeBo, that drops to 4.83 seconds. And since this carrier relies more on remote cap generation than local, midslot cap rechargers aren't that essential. I'd keep the SeBo.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.12.13 23:09:00 - [10] Originally by: Headerman That said, would a RR carrier have need for a Sebo? What would the locking time be onto another carrier with or without it? 4.8s vs 7.7s archon on archon according to eft and as for the rigs eft states "Note: Does not work on capital sized modules" if that isn't accurate well never mind me
Aamrr	Posted - 2010.12.13 23:11:00 - [11] Edited by: Aamrr on 13/12/2010 23:13:31 I believe you're thinking of either crystal implants or capacitor safeguard rigs -- both of which apply to shields, not armor. The armor rigs mention nothing about not applying to capital ships. EDIT: Both pyfa and EFT say nothing about it not applying to capital ships, and both of them improve the efficiency of reps when used on carriers. I think you're mistaken?
Septu Resheph	Posted - 2010.12.14 00:18:00 - [12] Edited by: Septu Resheph on 14/12/2010 00:24:11 Originally by: Aamrr TL;DR? "Check out mah setup" However, with the sheer amount of DPS that post-Dominion titans and supercarriers bring to bear is immense and easily exceeds the capability of a triage carrier to endure. In response, I have created the following Archon fitting which brings the remote-repair tactics even further -- from the strategy of a RR-BS to a true logistics ship, drawing both its capacitor and its reps from similarly equipped fleetmates. The goals of this ship were twofold: Maximize EHP (to provide appropriate time to transfer reps) and maximize sustained remote repairs. By using only three capital reps and focusing on resists, this setup increases the sustained DPS per carrier from 5000, cited in the R&K video...to over 7000. I present the Guardian-Pantheon, a supercarrier escort platform with over 2 million EHP 7225 sustained remote rep, complete with requisite ECCM and sensor boosters. Stats with CR4, EE4, and CC4 implants [Archon, Guardian-Pantheon] bla bla ship build This topic is a complete troll.....but I gotta ask, what program did you use to make this fit? Its most definitely not the standard eft and sadly it hasn't been updated in along time. I ran the numbers and if you were using that to heal another capital that wasn't returning anything to you, your cap would last 2 min. With just 2 of said ships reping each other, the cap would last 5 min. I've gotta ask why you would put such an expensive ship on the field with that set up? The way it is, it is good for nothing more then cannon fodder. It requires a spider rep to keep it up(edit out) . Finally those "Large Remote Repair Augmentor I" do not effect capital size modals, I double checked before I made this post. (edit) This ship build is a complete waste of time, and to build this ship would be a complete waste of resources. There are vastly better options available. I could see the Russians using this because the end justifies the means and there is seemingly no end to their resources and they lengths they will go to try and succeed.
Aamrr	Posted - 2010.12.14 00:34:00 - [13] Edited by: Aamrr on 14/12/2010 00:36:16 I happen to be using Pyfa for my fittings. It's a nice cross-platform program written in python. Right now, it's about to publish its second release candidate. The program in question runs capacitor simulation program that models expenditures and influx, creating a remarkably accurate picture of capacitor generation. Under this model, with the appropriate rigs and implants which DO WORK, the ship should last almost two hours. This assumes that the ship is running all modules constantly. Between delays in switching targets, this is obviously not the case. It will be stable in practice. What you apparently failed to understand is that this ship participates in a capacitor transfer chain. Project the two capital energy transfer modules in its high slots onto itself -- you'll see that the ship achieves the stability I talked about in my post. The rigs in question each provide a 20% reduction in the cost of the remote repair modules, with a cumulative effect that each costs only 51.2% of its base cost. The benefits of this should be obvious. Any excess repair or capacitor the fleet generates is free to be passed on to other capitals -- such as the supercarrier I talked about in my opening post. So as you can see, when participating in a spider tank and capacitor transfer chain, the ship achieves stability. It should be obvious from the context of my post that the ship was intended to be receiving transfers from like-fitted fleetmates. If you didn't follow that, perhaps you should read the post again before you accuse me of trolling.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.12.14 00:48:00 - [14] Originally by: Septu Resheph I've gotta ask why you would put such an expensive ship on the field with that set up? The way it is, it is good for nothing more then cannon fodder. It requires a spider rep to keep it up(edit out) requires a spider tank to keep any ship up against focused fire. and a carrier isn't really all that expensive.
CharmingButIrrational Roswell Project Victimz	Posted - 2010.12.14 00:49:00 - [15] This ship modification is designed to reduce the capacitor need for a ship's remote armor repair modules at the expense of max velocity. Note: Does not work on capital sized modules
Aamrr	Posted - 2010.12.14 00:53:00 - [16] Originally by: CharmingButIrrational This ship modification is designed to reduce the capacitor need for a ship's remote armor repair modules at the expense of max velocity. Note: Does not work on capital sized modules Funny, I just linked an image from in-game that specifically lacks that quote. Where are you finding your information?
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.12.14 00:56:00 - [17] Originally by: Aamrr Originally by: CharmingButIrrational This ship modification is designed to reduce the capacitor need for a ship's remote armor repair modules at the expense of max velocity. Note: Does not work on capital sized modules Funny, I just linked an image from in-game that specifically lacks that quote. Where are you finding your information? as I said earlier eft says that, but ingame does not say that, but that doesn't mean in game is right. if I had a carrier I'd go try it.
Aamrr	Posted - 2010.12.14 00:58:00 - [18] Because EFT has never been wrong about anything. Looks like we need to do some tests. Anyone want to hop on sisi?
CharmingButIrrational Roswell Project Victimz	Posted - 2010.12.14 01:16:00 - [19] I stand corrected. That's a nice little tidbit to know.
Aamrr	Posted - 2010.12.14 01:21:00 - [20] Given what I put together with those rigs, I'm inclined to agree. I wonder if it might have changed in a recent patch, because the information on eve-wiki contradicts what's currently being displayed on the in-game descriptions and the behavior in tranquility. Stealth archon buff, anyone?
Headerman Metanoia. Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2010.12.14 02:02:00 - [21] Edited by: Headerman on 14/12/2010 02:15:21 I am bored at work and have been doing some EFT'ing with a Nid. The best thing about the nid is the lil 5% bonus to Cap RR amount per level. As there is no bonus to cap at all, i have dropped the EE4 implant in favour of the ZET2000. I am also thrown in a low grade slave set cause of the ships pretty crappy HP... [Nidhoggur, New Setup 1] Armor EM Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Armor Kinetic Hardener II Armor Explosive Hardener II Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Damage Control II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Capital Remote Armor Repair System I Capital Remote Armor Repair System I Capital Remote Armor Repair System I Capital Remote Armor Repair System I Drone Control Unit I Large Remote Repair Augmentor I Large Remote Repair Augmentor I Large Remote Repair Augmentor I Cap lasts 6 minutes (5m 59 seconds), EHP is 1.5m, lowest resist is explosive, at 74%. Certainly not as good as an Archon, but this has (all @ 5) 66% increase in repping amount
Aamrr	Posted - 2010.12.14 02:19:00 - [22] Originally by: Headerman Edited by: Headerman on 14/12/2010 02:15:21 I am bored at work and have been doing some EFT'ing with a Nid. Honestly, you're not going to get much better with that ship. Nice work, but...it's no Archon, and with a rep/sec to EHP ratio like that, it'll get primaried rather promptly. One of the advantages of the Archon setup I linked above is that it's not an attractive target to primary -- you're just not going to be doing much damage to a ship tanked that heavily. The Nidhoggur, lacking the resist bonus and capacitor of the Amarrian hull, can't really compete.
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux War.Pigs.	Posted - 2010.12.14 02:23:00 - [23] Originally by: Headerman Damage Control II Faction smartbomb to get rid of the clouds of ECM drones. Also, deplorable lack of ECCM. :( -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter - Blog got deleted when Evepress died -
Aamrr	Posted - 2010.12.14 02:30:00 - [24] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Headerman Damage Control II Faction smartbomb to get rid of the clouds of ECM drones. Also, deplorable lack of ECCM. :( -Liang I agree with you Liang, I really do, but the Nidhoggur is just so capacitor constrained...
Headerman Metanoia. Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2010.12.14 02:36:00 - [25] Just updated: added a true sansha smart bomb for em (highest resist on the double nidhoggur), and nearly doubled the ships sensor strength from 68 to 133. Cap has been reduced to about 5 minutes, still fairly decent Vs the Archon.
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux War.Pigs.	Posted - 2010.12.14 02:46:00 - [26] Originally by: Headerman Just updated: added a true sansha smart bomb for em (highest resist on the double nidhoggur), and nearly doubled the ships sensor strength from 68 to 133. Cap has been reduced to about 5 minutes, still fairly decent Vs the Archon. Add a Jackal set (Grail for the Archon!) for extra safety. They're pretty cheap last time I looked too. -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter - Blog got deleted when Evepress died -
Aamrr	Posted - 2010.12.14 02:47:00 - [27] I would drop the damage control for a capacitor power relay, to be honest. You're already painfully low on capacitor stability as it is, and the damage control actually gives less tank than an EANM would.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.12.14 02:55:00 - [28] Originally by: Aamrr Edited by: Aamrr on 14/12/2010 01:09:50 Because EFT has never been wrong about anything. Looks like we need to do some tests. Anyone want to hop on sisi? EDIT: Just asked a friendly Archon pilot to help me out on Sisi. pilotsr > 911.25 GJ without pilotsr > 729 GJ with Exactly the 20% reduction we're expecting. Looks like it works and EFT is in fact wrong. ingame used to not have the does not work on cap mods bit. people loved to come whine on the forums that their crystal set did nothing on that shiny new carrier. I was figuring both were wrong. but since it works it makes the setup far more interesting. I would have tried this on sisi earlier, but I didn't expect it to be up after the fire rep goes from 810 to 414.72 with 3x of the rig and capital remote armor repair systems 4.
Septu Resheph	Posted - 2010.12.14 02:56:00 - [29] Originally by: Septu Resheph Edited by: Septu Resheph on 14/12/2010 00:24:11 (edit) This ship build is a complete waste of time, and to build this ship would be a complete waste of resources. There are vastly better options available. I could see the Russians using this because the end justifies the means and there is seemingly no end to their resources and they lengths they will go to try and succeed. Originally by: Aamrr EDIT: And to be quite frank, your comment on Russian tactics and "extremes" strikes me as a bit racist. You might reconsider such comments in the future. We all play the same game here, and we're all looking for success in combat. A more tolerant tone would serve you better. Let me make myself perfectly clear, don't you dare EVER call me racist again. You only managed to show your own ignorance and closed mindedness. Racism is mostly commonly not just a lack of tolerance but more over a lack of knowledge, understanding and acceptance. Don't talk to me about racism b**, I could run circles around you on the subject and the diversity of my group of friends in real life. Unlike you I walk away from the game and go out into the world, read, learn and enjoy life as it was meant to be imo. I commented on how they will go to any means necessary to accomplish what they set out to do. They need a job done, they find what they need to make it happen and they do it, they don't care about the cost, they don't care if its unorthodox, they don't care what other people think. Most people don't have the balls to step up to the plate and take that kind of initiative. That is a compliment and is admirable. Originally by:** Aamrr Edited by: Aamrr on 14/12/2010 00:42:46 Edited by: Aamrr on 14/12/2010 00:38:24 What you apparently failed to understand is that this ship participates in a capacitor transfer chain. Project the two capital energy transfer modules in its high slots onto itself -- you'll see that the ship achieves the stability I talked about in my post. The rigs in question each provide a 20% reduction in the cost of the remote repair modules, with a cumulative effect that each costs only 51.2% of its base cost. The benefits of this should be obvious. Any excess repair or capacitor the fleet generates is free to be passed on to other capitals -- such as the super carrier I talked about in my opening post. So as you can see, when participating in a spider tank and capacitor transfer chain, the ship achieves stability. It should be obvious from the context of my post that the ship was intended to be receiving transfers from like-fitted fleetmates, contributing almost 7000 tanked DPS per carrier. If you didn't foll First off, I didn't fail to realize anything, you are t2 fitting and placing a 700m++ ship at risk with a fail fit. Using the cap transfer to create cap is a good use. However the regeneration compared to the use still does not match to give you a cap stability of nearly 2 hours much less effectively stable. The base regen on your fit without cap transfer is roughly speaking 94 which is a far cry from what is required. As it sits what I figure you will need just over 500 with everything running. With everything on with two energy transfers is not enough to get to the cap stability you are referring to since if I'm correct u gain 700 cap per cycle (10 sec)per unit. Now not to say I didn't mess up on something. Originally by: Aamrr Edited by: Aamrr on 14/12/2010 01:09:50 Because EFT has never been wrong about anything. Looks like we need to do some tests. Anyone want to hop on sisi? EDIT: Just asked a friendly Archon pilot to help me out on Sisi. pilotsr > 911.25 GJ without pilotsr > 729 GJ with Exactly the 20% reduction we're expecting. Looks like it works and EFT is in fact wrong. Congratz, you found a fla and now I had to do more math....fixed above
Septu Resheph	Posted - 2010.12.14 03:08:00 - [30] btw if I am wrong on my math, which hey, I am fine with, I would actually be really happy if I was wrong because it has so many beautiful possibilities for builds. but lets be sure on who's math is closer first.
Aamrr	Posted - 2010.12.14 03:09:00 - [31] Originally by: Septu Resheph varying amounts of rage And yet you still don't get it. You just don't. With the appropriate skills and implants, including the remote repair augmentor rigs, this ship only consumes 503 capacitor per second. It's receiving 200 cap/second for each capital energy transfer projected onto the ship. 99.7+200+200 ~= 500. Stable. You might as well criticize a twin-guardian for generating "only" 20 capacitor per second. It's the same principle -- one which you stubbornly refuse to understand. -- And FYI, you can be racist by saying positive things about a group too. The "asians are good at math" stereotype is an example of this. It's still stereotyping, whether you want to admit it or not.
Headerman Metanoia. Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2010.12.14 03:50:00 - [32] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Headerman Just updated: added a true sansha smart bomb for em (highest resist on the double nidhoggur), and nearly doubled the ships sensor strength from 68 to 133. Cap has been reduced to about 5 minutes, still fairly decent Vs the Archon. Add a Jackal set (Grail for the Archon!) for extra safety. They're pretty cheap last time I looked too. -Liang The full jackal set brings the Nids sensor strength up to 234. With the Imperial navy EANM, resists go from (with the DC2) 88.4, 81.2, 78.3, 74, to 88.6, 81.4, 78.6, 74.3... not a heck of alot
Aamrr	Posted - 2010.12.14 03:57:00 - [33] Does anyone know off-hand how much low-grade slave implants cost? A couple of the cheaper ones might not be a terrible investment, either.
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux War.Pigs.	Posted - 2010.12.14 04:05:00 - [34] Originally by: Headerman The full jackal set brings the Nids sensor strength up to 234. With the Imperial navy EANM, resists go from (with the DC2) 88.4, 81.2, 78.3, 74, to 88.6, 81.4, 78.6, 74.3... not a heck of alot Yeah IN EANMs may not be worth it, but the Jackal surely would be. You might even be able to skip the ECCM and put a cap recharger/sebo in. Also, LG slave sets are fantastic and would make a worthy addition to saving your Sansha supercarrier! -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter - Blog got deleted when Evepress died -
Aamrr	Posted - 2010.12.14 04:09:00 - [35] Edited by: Aamrr on 14/12/2010 04:09:26 Funny -- first I'm criticized for T2 fitting a billion isk ship, now the IN EANMs are too expensive. I've been toying with the idea of only using one of them, since it's 87% effective, while the second is only 53% effective. Also, I'm not quite sure what you mean about the slave implants. Isn't the sansha supercarrier a shield tanker?
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux War.Pigs.	Posted - 2010.12.14 04:13:00 - [36] Edited by: Liang Nuren on 14/12/2010 04:13:48 Originally by: Aamrr Funny -- first I'm criticized for T2 fitting a billion isk ship, now the IN EANMs are too expensive. I've been toying with the idea of only using one of them, since it's 87% effective, while the second is only 53% effective. I was talking to Headerman about the Nidhoggur. The IN EANMs may not be such a great idea for it. But, I have them fit to my Niddy so who am I to complain? They're what 35-40M? Thats peanuts, and really goes a long ways towards explaining why armor tanking is so much more popular than shield tanking. Quote: Also, I'm not quite sure what you mean about the slave implants. Isn't the sansha supercarrier a shield tanker? I was just pointing out that throwing some slave sets into your supercarrier-saving-friends is a cool way to pay them for putting their ships on the line to save your Sansha supercarriers. Slave sets are kinda cheap, they're awesome. Also, don't forget that you can pay them with a few Succubus, Phantasms, or Nightmares! -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter - Blog got deleted when Evepress died -
Aamrr	Posted - 2010.12.14 04:17:00 - [37] Oh, so you're entirely impartial. Good to know. In any case, I think I'm going to start training for an archon. The biggest problem will be finding an alliance with fleetmates willing to dedicate two energy reps to the spider tank.
Septu Resheph	Posted - 2010.12.14 04:35:00 - [38] Edited by: Septu Resheph on 14/12/2010 04:36:15 Originally by: Aamrr Originally by: Septu Resheph varying amounts of rage And yet you still don't get it. You just don't. With the appropriate skills and implants, including the remote repair augmentor rigs, this ship only consumes 503 capacitor per second. It's receiving 200 cap/second for each capital energy transfer projected onto the ship. 99.7+200+200 ~= 500. Stable. You might as well criticize a twin-guardian for generating "only" 20 capacitor per second. It's the same principle -- one which you stubbornly refuse to understand. -- And FYI, you can be racist by saying positive things about a group too. The "asians are good at math" stereotype is an example of this. It's still stereotyping, whether you want to admit it or not. OMG you are dumber then a box of rocks...... #1) there is a massive difference between stereotyping and racism, you obviously don't know the difference and its not worth my time to try to teach you. My race is in the minority so you wana come talk to me about racism, stereotypes, discrimination, ect? #2) lets go into simple math for your tiny brain to comprehend, try to follow. Capital Energy Transfer Array. 1350 cost per activation, duration 10 seconds, target cap bonus 2000. Now I know this is difficult for you to comprehend so get out your calculator so you don't hurt yourself 2000 (transferred amount) -1350 (activation cost)= 650 effective Cap bonus after figuring the cost of activation of said module. Now this next part may go over your head because I know its complicated for you, 650 (effective bonus) / 10 (duration) = 65 effective cap per second. Now I know this is a difficult concept for your tiny brain to comprehend but what the hell are we missing here because we are obviously not seeing eye to eye. I must be missing something. Please do explain this to me instead of your pathetic attempts to insult me.
Aamrr	Posted - 2010.12.14 04:48:00 - [39] Originally by: Septu Resheph <snip> ignoring this as we've spent quite enough time this already </snip> #2) lets go into simple math for your tiny brain to comprehend, try to follow. Capital Energy Transfer Array. 1350 cost per activation, duration 10 seconds, target cap bonus 2000. Now I know this is difficult for you to comprehend so get out your calculator so you don't hurt yourself 2000 (transferred amount) -1350 (activation cost)= 650 effective Cap bonus after figuring the cost of activation of said module. Now this next part may go over your head because I know its complicated for you, 650 (effective bonus) / 10 (duration) = 65 effective cap per second. Now I know this is a difficult concept for your tiny brain to comprehend but what the hell are we missing here because we are obviously not seeing eye to eye. I must be missing something. Please do explain this to me instead of your pathetic attempts to insult me. I wasn't claiming that it gave 200 net capacitor per second. I claimed that it gave gross 200 cap per second. And it does. 2000 capacitor/cycle * 1 cycle/second = 200 cap/second. And indeed, two of these transfers plus my inate 99.7 regen gives the 500 capacitor per second that I had claimed. Now, if you're contesting my claim that only 503 capacitor per second is necessary, perhaps you should remind yourself that skills like (capital) energy emission systems reduce the cost of these modules, as does the Squire 'EE4' implant I mentioned in my post. Or do I need to explain the difference between "gross" and "net" to you?
Septu Resheph	Posted - 2010.12.14 05:11:00 - [40] You have only proven yourself a troll and a waste of time, you don't even understand basic math. I do see that I made a mistake in my math but it will still not leave this ship cap stable and I don't think it will last as long as you say it will but still. I would place it off a quick figure at under 1 hour. You are not worth the time and this thread is not worth the length of explanation and work it would take to show all of the math in order for you or others to see if they do not already see.
Aamrr	Posted - 2010.12.14 05:19:00 - [41] My, what a charmingly eloquent argument. More ad hominem attacks; couldn't have seen that coming. Let the record show that with the appropriate skills, rigs, and implants, my ship gets in 499.7 cap/sec, and burns 503. Certainly not stable, but close enough for practical purposes. With that now quite thoroughly established, I'll let the sustained 7000 EHP/sec tank figure stand.
Terianna Eri Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn	Posted - 2010.12.14 06:49:00 - [42] Originally by: Aamrr My, what a charmingly eloquent argument. More ad hominem attacks; couldn't have seen that coming. Let the record show that with the appropriate skills, rigs, and implants, my ship gets in 499.7 cap/sec, and burns 503. Certainly not stable, but close enough for practical purposes. With that now quite thoroughly established, I'll let the sustained 7000 EHP/sec tank figure stand. those aren't ad hominems fyi, but just simple insults ________________ Originally by: CCP Incognito PS the "time to P*nis" is the shortest time recorded in human history. :)
Aamrr	Posted - 2010.12.14 06:52:00 - [43] ...point conceded.
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux War.Pigs.	Posted - 2010.12.14 07:21:00 - [44] Originally by: Terianna Eri those aren't ad hominems fyi, but just simple insults -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter - Blog got deleted when Evepress died -
Haseo Arashi	Posted - 2010.12.14 07:48:00 - [45] Talismans I use them on sisi to make killer rr chimeras.
oldmanst4r Minmatar oldmanst4r's Corporation	Posted - 2010.12.14 14:30:00 - [46] Originally by: Septu Resheph EPIC RAGE! Umad bro? Originally by: CCP Shadow snip Castration successful. Shadow.
Indeterminacy THORN Syndicate Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2010.12.14 14:53:00 - [47] Hey I don't fly carriers but, did you get rid of those complete useless rigs yet? Quote: Large Remote Repair Augmentor I ... Note: Does not work on capital sized modules
superteds	Posted - 2010.12.14 15:46:00 - [48] Originally by: Septu Resheph Edited by: Septu Resheph on 14/12/2010 04:36:15 Originally by: Aamrr Originally by: Septu Resheph varying amounts of rage And yet you still don't get it. You just don't. With the appropriate skills and implants, including the remote repair augmentor rigs, this ship only consumes 503 capacitor per second. It's receiving 200 cap/second for each capital energy transfer projected onto the ship. 99.7+200+200 ~= 500. Stable. You might as well criticize a twin-guardian for generating "only" 20 capacitor per second. It's the same principle -- one which you stubbornly refuse to understand. -- And FYI, you can be racist by saying positive things about a group too. The "asians are good at math" stereotype is an example of this. It's still stereotyping, whether you want to admit it or not. OMG you are dumber then a box of rocks...... #1) there is a massive difference between stereotyping and racism, you obviously don't know the difference and its not worth my time to try to teach you. My race is in the minority so you wana come talk to me about racism, stereotypes, discrimination, ect? #2) lets go into simple math for your tiny brain to comprehend, try to follow. Capital Energy Transfer Array. 1350 cost per activation, duration 10 seconds, target cap bonus 2000. Now I know this is difficult for you to comprehend so get out your calculator so you don't hurt yourself 2000 (transferred amount) -1350 (activation cost)= 650 effective Cap bonus after figuring the cost of activation of said module. Now this next part may go over your head because I know its complicated for you, 650 (effective bonus) / 10 (duration) = 65 effective cap per second. Now I know this is a difficult concept for your tiny brain to comprehend but what the hell are we missing here because we are obviously not seeing eye to eye. I must be missing something. Please do explain this to me instead of your pathetic attempts to insult me. why are you so mad over a carrier fitting?
Aamrr	Posted - 2010.12.14 17:18:00 - [49] Originally by: Indeterminacy Hey I don't fly carriers but, did you get rid of those complete useless rigs yet? Quote: Large Remote Repair Augmentor I ... Note: Does not work on capital sized modules Given the page-long discussion we had over this, I'm going to assume you're baiting me for a response. I'm going to point you to the previous page of discussion, current-game-screenshots, and sisi tests, then leave it at that. With that said, I'm anticipating that the new Incursion meta-2 capital modules will free up a fair bit of capacitor on this ship. Assuming I'm able to free up a midslot from cap recharge, what should I put on instead -- perhaps a web or point?
fkingfurious	Posted - 2010.12.14 17:55:00 - [50] My EFT'ing of the setup leaves it with cap for like an hour. Throw in a slave set (drop the CR4 implant) and get hold of some Mindflood boosters instead. They're cheap and cos of the way the ship is setup have effectively no drawbacks. Also, if you're using these en-masse (and assuming you dont have a Damnation handy) it is worth your time to take one of the Archons, get a pilot with the required armored warfare and fleet command skills, get a mindlink, some command processers and fit a full compliment of armored warfare ganglinks. The effect these have is enormous, even without a ship specific bonus (think damnation or legion). With all 3 links running each Archon projects a 10,000 dps tank onto a similar fit archon or supercarrier (up from 7300 without, an increase of over 25%). Clearly a Command Ship gives a better bonus but the point ofc is that you cant hot drop with a command ship and a Damnation doesn't have 3.4 mill EHP which the Archon can (with HG Slaves, ZET 5000 and gag bonuses). Just some thoughts, but theres no doubt that spidery archons could be really handy. Just need to find all the Archons.
Aamrr	Posted - 2010.12.14 18:06:00 - [51] Good point on the mindflood boosters. They completely slipped my mind (I guess I disregarded them because of the drawbacks). Low-grade slaves would be quite nice for this ship, possibly even saving it from a doomsday, but I'm not sure if they're cost effective, as I don't have the numbers on them. For that matter, a ZET500 +3% armor implant wouldn't be a bad idea either. Still, those talismans WERE impressive... As for gang links, I'd probably prefer an unscannable legion for that job, but if you're forced to put it on a carrier, I suppose that's better than nothing.

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