Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Proxyyyy
Caldari draketrain
|
Posted - 2010.12.21 20:13:00 -
[31]
I also do believe that the drake is "overpowered", but did'nt find a need to cry about (because i fly it alot). I also believe the mrymidon is "overpowered", but its a ship that excels in large fleet combat (which is why many dont care about it).
Just skill the drake and sftu...
Alot of pilots believe the Hurricane is "overpowered" for some reason. Thats something i just dont understand.
-Discard females. Smoke trees. Win battles, Acquire ISK
|
Derekian
The Scope
|
Posted - 2010.12.21 20:18:00 -
[32]
Quote: In my opinion, it would be enough to raise cost of medium shield extender rigs to 10-15 mil in order to balance things.
no one is stopping you from selling the rigs at 10-15m >_>''
to me, drake is underpowered. i think it should get 3% more cpu for hm fits, and 3% more grid for ham fits.
I also think it needs a kinetic-and-thermal 5% per level bonus instead of kinetic only, which makes it too one dimensioned.
It also needs a 5% per level bonus to tracking disruptors, target painters, and
Also, a boost in speed and a reduction in sig rad to balance with armor tankers will be good too. maybe +200 m/s natural and -150 sig rad (which makes the ship 250 sig rad fully fitted.
|
Asuka Smith
Gallente Noir.
|
Posted - 2010.12.21 20:27:00 -
[33]
The only BC that really stinks is the Myrmidon.
|
daisy dook
|
Posted - 2010.12.21 20:38:00 -
[34]
Originally by: NoNah
Originally by: daisy dook
Remove the lag and don't armour HAC gangs give the drake blob a good fisting ?
Other way around.
How so?
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
|
Posted - 2010.12.21 22:05:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Asuka Smith The only BC that really stinks is the Myrmidon.
àand yet, it can quite handily beat the Drake in both gank and tank. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Diomidis
Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2010.12.21 22:16:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Asuka Smith The only BC that really stinks is the Myrmidon.
àand yet, it can quite handily beat the Drake in both gank and tank.
Yeah...cause whenever we like the blobs, ships and fits oriented towards a smaller gang/solo situation, suck...no range, local tank etc...all the failures. But when we are out-blobbed, ships like the Drake with range and good RR receptivity are overpowered...right...as if a blob of ANYTHING better organized than yours or fitted to counter yours would not be MORE powerful...
Ships are overpowered when act on their own...say a super tanky/ganky ship entering a system and pwning an enemy camp each and everytime, or being nearly immune to killing with the proper rig/fit/implant/speed bonuses, while still having lots of tank/gank etc.
Whining for nerfs because the X blob has a very strong combination of versatile ships (Drakes for example), good RR Logi tactics and co-ordination in conjunction with tried tactics, fleet bonuses and good FCs is like trying to undo what CCP seems to be trying to achieve for years... Join the Biggest Greek Corp! www.Mythos-eve.com - Join Mythos Channel in game! |
Ephemeron
Solitairian Society
|
Posted - 2010.12.21 22:23:00 -
[37]
Quote: Ships are overpowered when act on their own...say a super tanky/ganky ship entering a system and pwning an enemy camp each and everytime, or being nearly immune to killing with the proper rig/fit/implant/speed bonuses, while still having lots of tank/gank etc.
By that definition, overpowered ships never existed in EVE. Because whenever a single ship commits to a fight, no matter how powerful it is, there is always a 2-3 ship combo that can defeat it - if they are setup properly to handle specific case.
And nowadays, hot drops make it so overpowered ships cannot exist.
Either accept that or change the definition.
|
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
|
Posted - 2010.12.21 22:27:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Tippia Funnily enough, the Myrm has always had a better tank than the Drakeà
in a few rather worthless situations yes it does, practically I'd say the drake has the better tank.
|
Sidicarus
The Free Haven Group
|
Posted - 2010.12.21 22:30:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Asuka Smith The only BC that really stinks is the Myrmidon.
àand yet, it can quite handily beat the Drake in both gank and tank.
This^^
I fly a near perfect, prototypical Disrupt/Web/MWD HAM drake, perfect shield skills and near perfect missile skills and I was beat 1v1 by a corpie flying a myrm. So I guess the only logical conclusion here is..... "HE BEAT ME!! CCP needz to nurfs his shipz!!!!"
Seriously, The Drake is just 1 of 2 decent PvP combat ships (I think its the only one, but I'll you insert whatever you want as #2) the Caldari have. Our caps are useless, the Raven is like Woody Allen with a sledgehammer, our HAC's are a joke, and our frigs (even the T2's) cant handle a T2 fit and I guess the jury is still out on the rocket changes... (no idea)
But fine, whatever. Replace our shields with marshmallows and pull HAM's off the market and replace them with kitten launchers. I have been needing an excuse to crosstrain.
|
Sidicarus
The Free Haven Group
|
Posted - 2010.12.21 22:38:00 -
[40]
And before all you hooting ****holes start in with ECM.... Yeah, ECM is cool. Its effective when used in a certain number of situations, thats great. But it takes a rare breed of person to want to repeatedly "die first" without the possibility of getting any kills. And ECM doesnt have anything to do with the Drake.
|
|
Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
|
Posted - 2010.12.21 22:44:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Asuka Smith The only BC that really stinks is the Myrmidon.
Ferox wants a word with you. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Asuka Smith
Gallente Noir.
|
Posted - 2010.12.21 23:22:00 -
[42]
I don't mean to de-rail this thread but I just want to point out that the Myrmidon fanboys saying "B-b-but 1v1" are really out of touch.
Do you get non-consenual 1v1 often? Yeah a Myrmidon is going to beat any of the other BC in a 1v1 because 1v1 is the single situation in EVE where active beats buffer in PVP. If it is 2v2 the drake just surpassed your Myrmidon in terms of effective tank. If there is more than 10km of travel for your Myrmidon between targets then the Drake just surpassed you in DPS.
1v1 Myrm > Drake ; 2v2+ Drake > Myrm assuming pure gang compositions.
Which leads back to the main point, a Myrmidon provides nothing to a gang. Yeah, it brings some DPS, but that DPS is all range 0. Do you plan to tackle very many targets in your battlecruiser that don't want to be tackled? Assuming a 10v10 situation which I would say is smallest realistic type of gang fight the ranges alone are going to render your myrmidon useless.
Medium drones flying as fast as they can providing marginal DPS and super short range guns that will probably only get fired at the first and MAYBE second parimary. A **** tank for a gang if you go for active, and mediocre with a wasted bonus if you do passive. A drake will provide FAR more DPS, FAR more survivability, is well suited to RR, *AND* does it's full DPS with a flight of warriors out killing enemy frigates, whereas for the Myrmidon to do full DPS it has to use an absurd 2/2/1 drone mix that in reality won't be applying any DPS as your heavies go nowhere and fast.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
|
Posted - 2010.12.21 23:38:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Tippia on 21/12/2010 23:41:00
Originally by: Asuka Smith If it is 2v2 the drake just surpassed your Myrmidon in terms of effective tank.
Have you had a look at the buffer you can put on a Myrm? Yes, the active tank is fun and all, but it provides pretty much the same buffer tanking capabilities as the Drake (possibly even more, due to more gracious fitting space)
Quote: If there is more than 10km of travel for your Myrmidon between targets then the Drake just surpassed you in DPS.
Both Laser and AC myrm would like a word with you (and that's just looking at the short-range options)à
Quote: Yeah, it brings some DPS, but that DPS is all range 0.
Lol no. I'll grant you that it might be more of a medium-range boat, but if you think for a second that it's limited to being up close and personal, you haven't quite investigated the options.
All in all, it sounds like you need to go back and play around a bit with it ù I think you'll be surprised with the kind of stuff you can do with one of the most versatile ships in the gameà ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Lili Lu
|
Posted - 2010.12.21 23:47:00 -
[44]
Originally by: daisy dook
Originally by: NoNah
Originally by: daisy dook
Remove the lag and don't armour HAC gangs give the drake blob a good fisting ?
Other way around.
How so?
ooh ooh can i answer? Speaking as someone who was involved in many such battles, it is not a simple matter either way. Generally, AHACs will destroy Drake blobs or equal or slightly greater numbers up to a certain point. Somewhere around 200 fleet size. Then Drakes start to take over because they possess the range advantage and their alpha can swamp the lesser ehp buffers on the ahacs and armor logis.
The wiggle room comes in with the number of logis either side has in the fleet. But again, once you get around 200 or more for the fleet size on the drakes the AHACs will get volleyed while not able to reel in the Drakes fast enough to counter.
Regardless, this is now the umpteenth nerf drake thread and even i, a drake hater, am getting tired of them. If you need to ask or want to post, please instead take the time to read the other threads. So many of the arguments have been presented with or without support so many times it really gets old. This has been hashed over and is now thoroughly burnt. Doubtful anyone can add anything new.
And, though I am tempted to present my arguments for a nerf again, I won't for the very reasons i stated above. CCP is "presently reviewing" the situation and may or may not be "making changes" "soon".
One thing I will say, that some may view as argument, but I view as just exasperated fatigue, is please noone bring up "but drakes can be countered by firewall BSs because I saw the video . . ." I was in that first initial and very successful firewall BS v drake battle as presented in the video. It did work well. And it worked ok in some later engagements. Then counters started being devised and we discovered some kinks in the mechanics. INIT has abandonned firewall BS fleets and is now flying, wait for it, DRAKES That is all you need to know about that situtation. |
Asuka Smith
Gallente Noir.
|
Posted - 2010.12.22 01:28:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 21/12/2010 23:41:00
Originally by: Asuka Smith If it is 2v2 the drake just surpassed your Myrmidon in terms of effective tank.
Have you had a look at the buffer you can put on a Myrm? Yes, the active tank is fun and all, but it provides pretty much the same buffer tanking capabilities as the Drake (possibly even more, due to more gracious fitting space)
Quote: If there is more than 10km of travel for your Myrmidon between targets then the Drake just surpassed you in DPS.
Both Laser and AC myrm would like a word with you (and that's just looking at the short-range options)à
Quote: Yeah, it brings some DPS, but that DPS is all range 0.
Lol no. I'll grant you that it might be more of a medium-range boat, but if you think for a second that it's limited to being up close and personal, you haven't quite investigated the options.
All in all, it sounds like you need to go back and play around a bit with it ù I think you'll be surprised with the kind of stuff you can do with one of the most versatile ships in the gameà
[Myrmidon, Shield] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Damage Control II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II
425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M 425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M 425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M 425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M 425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M 425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Hammerhead II x5
533 DPS, 72k EHP, 1.1km/s /w MWD
[Myrmidon, Laser Shield] Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Damage Control II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Hammerhead II x5
566 DPS, 72k EHP, 1.1km/s
[Drake, HAM] Power Diagnostic System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Damage Control II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Warp Scrambler II Stasis Webifier II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Small Energy Neutralizer II
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Warrior II x5
542 /w Navy Terror
442 /w Javeling
86k EHP, 1km/s with faction 725m/s with T2, and has tackle
Which is more valuable to gang again?
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
|
Posted - 2010.12.22 01:48:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Asuka Smith Hammerhead II x5
566 DPS, 72k EHP, 1.1km/s
àLike I said, you're not quite looking at all the options here ù you're missing out on quite a bit of both EHP and DPS (nor are you adding in the higher-damage options the way you did for the Drake).
àthen again, you didn't exactly fit the Drake optimally (or comparatively) either. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Aristeia Cersei
|
Posted - 2010.12.22 02:31:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Aristeia Cersei on 22/12/2010 02:33:39
The whiners spouting off about 650-700 DPs obviously don't fly Drakes very much and spend far too much time with EFT open. The only way you are getting that kind of DPS is using HAM's and almost no one uses HAMS in their Drake gangs.
Most Drake gangs are using HML's which offer up much much lower DPS. The advantage of Drakes and the reason they are popular is nice tanks/high resists and the long range of HML's not HAM fits that also have to gimp their tank to fit it.
Not to mention the Drake only gets damage bonus to Kin and how many ships is it worth shooting Kin at vs EM or Explosive? Not a hell of a lot.
Drake simply works because it has a good tank and decent damage but nothing spectacular on the damage side.
|
Vmir Gallahasen
Gallente United Mining And Distribution
|
Posted - 2010.12.22 02:55:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Tippia Like I said, you're not quite looking at all the options here ù you're missing out on quite a bit of both EHP and DPS (nor are you adding in the higher-damage options the way you did for the Drake).
You were the one who made the statement. He made a pretty decent effort at going megatank with no tackle on the myrmidon and still coming up short EHP-wise vs a drake that you said yourself wasn't optimal, I think it's your turn to both optimize the drake and show a myrmidon that beats its EHP while still having reasonable dps and gang utility
|
Proxyyyy
Caldari draketrain
|
Posted - 2010.12.22 03:18:00 -
[49]
Asuka Smith, personaly i'm pretty sure i understand they're no 1 v 1's in eve. Since i dont go out looking for those engagements or expect them (traps are fun). I can honestly say, the Mrymidon is a freaking beast!
Depending on the damage the battlecruisers your Mrymidon is engaging are doing. The Myrmidon, can tank upwards of 2 - 3 bc's with Exiles boosters and double reps alone.
Funny enough, i started flying the ship in your corp (Noir.) only 2-3 months ago. While its not viable in very large fleet combat. You can however engage smaller gangs of 3 - 5. Hopefuly all that damage does not land on you right away, but its still very viable; The ship excels in solo pvp for the most part though.
While in your corp (Noir.) i had my first and second engagement in the mrym EVER (this is me learning to fly the ship). http://www.xfire.com/video/3b94ec/ I only uploading these vids because my bros wanted to see and understand a bit about how active tanking and the Myrmidon works (same as myself). In your corp i engaged 6 diffrent gangs before i left and fraps them all. Did not lose the ship once and the gangs ranged from 2 - 5 (i did that all to test its tank in the real deal).
http://www.xfire.com/video/3c6802/ This was my second to last engagement in teh Mrymidon before I stoped uploading fraps for people and i decided to switch to the Sacrilege. This is after getting a understanding of the Mrymidon and pushing it as far as i could.
http://proxyyyy.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=8160795 Died in this fight just when the Zealot was in 3% hull (was frapsed too). I was managing modules poorly and if i had taken the zealot down i would be able to tank the other 2 long enough to atleast kill the drake too...
The ship seems overpowered, in my opinion. The Mrymidon seems way beyond the other battlecruisers (similar to the drake).
-Discard females. Smoke trees. Win battles, Acquire ISK
|
Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux War.Pigs.
|
Posted - 2010.12.22 03:25:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Aristeia Cersei Most Drake gangs are using HML's which offer up much much lower DPS.
I completely agree. 560 DPS is much much much much lower than 650! I mean, 560 DPS is almost zero DPS!
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter - Blog got deleted when Evepress died - |
|
Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux War.Pigs.
|
Posted - 2010.12.22 03:29:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Tippia Like I said, you're not quite looking at all the options here ù you're missing out on quite a bit of both EHP and DPS (nor are you adding in the higher-damage options the way you did for the Drake).
I agree. The Myrm is so awesome, check it out!
[Myrmidon, LOL] Damage Control II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
Medium Core Defence Field Extender II Medium Core Defence Field Extender II Medium Core Defence Field Extender II
Ogre II x2 Hammerhead II x2 Hobgoblin II x1
Its got 997 DPS and 170K EHP!
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter - Blog got deleted when Evepress died - |
Merbusent
|
Posted - 2010.12.22 11:17:00 -
[52]
eccm is generally good for.. missiles? not in this game so I guess its kind of a pro factor that something hits regardless but thinking about that since when have they been usefull on anything else other than drake,
These need to be beefed up and distributed freely to each race and some caldari bonuses removed tbh tbh tbh.
|
Dr Fighter
|
Posted - 2010.12.22 11:45:00 -
[53]
to anyone with a INGAME clue will tell you cane -> harb -> drake for any real pvp gang.
everyone flys drake because its the easyest to get in and use for pve, thats really it.
The cane is FAR better pvp boat than the drake, EFT warriors fail, any flying exp in these ships with the latest cookie setups will say the same i expect.
|
Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
|
Posted - 2010.12.22 13:01:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Dr Fighter
The cane is FAR better pvp boat than the drake, EFT warriors fail, any flying exp in these ships with the latest cookie setups will say the same i expect.
Indeed. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Nanferr
|
Posted - 2010.12.22 13:56:00 -
[55]
anyone saying X bc is better then Y bc in all situations is either an idiot, elitist, or an eft warrior.
|
Diesel47
|
Posted - 2010.12.22 13:58:00 -
[56]
Remove minmitar from the game, they are overpowered.
|
Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
|
Posted - 2010.12.22 14:17:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Pohbis on 22/12/2010 14:19:18
Drake DPS EHP
Pick 2
The Cane wipes the floor with the Drake.
Now FOTM Shield buffer + Logi blobs. That's another matter, but by that standard, the Zealot is overpowered as well
|
Kastsumi Kobayariel
|
Posted - 2010.12.22 15:17:00 -
[58]
Quote: the buffer drake is seriously overpowered
Hi it's you you're overpowered.
|
daisy dook
|
Posted - 2010.12.22 15:43:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Lili Lu ooh ooh can i answer? Speaking as someone who was involved in many such battles, it is not a simple matter either way. Generally, AHACs will destroy Drake blobs or equal or slightly greater numbers up to a certain point. Somewhere around 200 fleet size. Then Drakes start to take over because they possess the range advantage and their alpha can swamp the lesser ehp buffers on the ahacs and armor logis.
So AHACs > drake in fleets of up to 200.
That is a different tale to Drakes >>> AHACs as put forward by NoNah, I was attempting to get the detail that leads him to think that.
Originally by: Lili Lu
One thing I will say, that some may view as argument, but I view as just exasperated fatigue, is please noone bring up "but drakes can be countered by firewall BSs because I saw the video . . ." I was in that first initial and very successful firewall BS v drake battle as presented in the video. It did work well. And it worked ok in some later engagements. Then counters started being devised and we discovered some kinks in the mechanics. INIT has abandonned firewall BS fleets and is now flying, wait for it, DRAKES That is all you need to know about that situtation.
I heard that the 'firewall' failed because the drake blob brought too much lag for the 'firewall' to perform it's duty...
Rumour has it that the answer is moar alpha and moar range whilst utilising the benefits of passive shield recharge in the laggy enviroment...
So our saviour from the drake blob is a bigger drake aka the nano arty Rokh!
|
Indeterminacy
THORN Syndicate Controlled Chaos
|
Posted - 2010.12.22 15:58:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Major Sackrash There's no denying it, in the current pvp climate the buffer drake is seriously overpowered...
No.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |