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Shasz
New Eden Renegades
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Posted - 2010.12.22 17:51:00 -
[61]
Huh, I don't remember seeing you flying around in my lowsec. You sure you looked everywhere? I know we've got solo pvp in my neck of the woods :)
FWIW, more people in lowsec would likely lead to more organization and more fleets and more baiting situations, not more magical solo pvp.
What you really want is more people *LIKE YOU* in lowsec that think like you, play like you, and want to be you. Everyone plays differently - you have to move or adapt or out-think, out-last, out-play and try not to get voted off the island, or something like that.
If you want more solo pvp, go find it. It's out there. But its not something CCP can program into the game for you to go to the right system with the "no blobbing" flag on it.
CCP can't script PvP for you, there's too many P's in the equation.
I'm out of random thoughts, other than "Ur doin it rong!"
Fly safe :) ___________________________________
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Lady Spank
Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2010.12.22 17:52:00 -
[62]
Originally by: FACLON ALT
Quote: Or *gasp* check out W-space where, according to the 2010 Q3 QEN, only 5% of EVE's population resides.
And spend a week looking for a target? no thanks
Actually its pretty easy.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.12.22 17:52:00 -
[63]
àspeaking of which, when will repping start giving proper aggression? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
FACLON ALT
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Posted - 2010.12.22 17:54:00 -
[64]
@Shasz, whereabouts is your neck of the woods, if I may ask?
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Adamantor
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Posted - 2010.12.22 17:54:00 -
[65]
Originally by: FACLON ALT
Originally by: Trader Gandry
Give me one good reason as why I would risk losing a fight if I have the means to make sure I win it.
Because 'winning' is empty and meaningless if you won because of bait and superior numbers, as opposed to skill. I fail to see what kind of satisfaction people could possibly get from it.
I'm all for a good fight. Unfortunately, most folks will use any advantage possible and this leads to others adapting to these tactics.
If you want to critique a group, ask the people who can flip (and many other tactics) in hi-sec systems and then blow noobs who don't understand the game mechanics why they do what they do - it pads their kill board stats and they get to feel like they're uber pirates or somesuch.
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Qarth
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Posted - 2010.12.22 17:55:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Qarth This is a MMO, so solo play is not really the point, now is it?
Originally by: FACLON ALT I can't believe how often this garbage is repeated. Just because it's an MMO doesn't oblige one to play with other players. If you're trying to win Eve then that's probably what you should do, but some of us just want to have fun, and for some of us that entails playing against other players, as opposed to with them.
The reason it comes up so often is the fact that this is an MMO, solo play is a sideline and a very small one at that. Adapt or die. It's an MMO, sooner or later you are either going to have to group up or be a free kill for those that have chosen too.
Quote: You know it's a bait stop being an idiot and failing for it.
Originally by: FACLON ALT you mean all of it? or just the ones with massive flickering neon 'BAIT' signs?
If it's alone sitting on a gate it's bait. If it's fast just staying ahead of you it's bait. If it waits for you to engage on a gate it's bait. If you see a solo pilot, they are bait. Learn that everything is bait.
Quote: Work on your social skills, make some friends and counter blob them.
Originally by: FACLON ALT Yes dad, am sorry dad.
It's okay son, just understand you don't get far in this life without friends and your social skills need some serious work.
Quote: So in closing, either adapt to the new environment or HTFU and lose ships and cry about it to yourself.
Originally by: FACLON ALT Totally, this is what I'm currently doing, I don't have any other options, apart from leaving the game. Again. But I'm not quite there yet.
But that's exactly what you are not doing. You are coming to the forums crying for all of us to see. Also if you were adapting, you would be baiting people already...
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Trader Gandry
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Posted - 2010.12.22 17:57:00 -
[67]
Originally by: FACLON ALT Because 'winning' is empty and meaningless if you won because of bait and superior numbers, as opposed to skill. I fail to see what kind of satisfaction people could possibly get from it.
Ever considered that they have other goals then you? Maybe they get their satisfaction out of something else. I for one don't PvP to grief or gank or such. I PvP to help defend our space and if need be that of our allies.
I am not flying then to get beautyfull kills or honourable combat, I am there to win by any legal means available. I fly a logistic or a HiC or another ship that won't appear a lot on killmails because they aren't there to Dps.
In the end only one thing counts. Did we achieve what we set out for.
You see, there is no overkill. Just the vertainty you brought enough firepower to get the job done as fast as possible.
The harder you kick the enemy the more they will remember it and the greater the chance they will rethink certain actions.
Thus we either get new tactics or they leave us alone or we get even greater fights.
Point is that the endgoal of a lot of people aren't your endgoals and as such they see no reason as why they should adapt to you.
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stoicfaux
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.12.22 18:01:00 -
[68]
Sounds like OP wants some kind of dueling system to ensure a fair-ish fight, or maybe a dedicated instanced PvP battleground or LFF (looking for fight) feature.
----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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FACLON ALT
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Posted - 2010.12.22 18:05:00 -
[69]
Originally by: stoicfaux Sounds like OP wants some kind of dueling system to ensure a fair-ish fight, or maybe a dedicated instanced PvP battleground or LFF (looking for fight) feature.
Hell no. If that was all I wanted Sisi would suffice.
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Shasz
New Eden Renegades
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Posted - 2010.12.22 18:05:00 -
[70]
Originally by: FACLON ALT @Shasz, whereabouts is your neck of the woods, if I may ask?
You need it all handed to you eh?
1. Look me up in game - see where my corp's HQ is. 2. Look me and my corp up on killboards, see where our kills / deaths are.
"Metropolis" is all the work I'll do for you :) ___________________________________
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.12.22 18:07:00 -
[71]
Originally by: stoicfaux Sounds like OP wants some kind of dueling system to ensure a fair-ish fight, or maybe a dedicated instanced PvP battleground or LFF (looking for fight) feature.
Sounds like OP needs to set up his own fighting league thenà
Let's review the guidelines of EVE combat:
If you're in a fair fight, you're doing it wrong. If you're in an equal fight, it's because the other guy's backup hasn't arrived yet. There are plenty of 1-on-1s to be had, you just have to kill the other 20 guys first. If you lose a fight, it's because you were blobbed. If you win a fight, it's because of good fleet cohesion. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
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Posted - 2010.12.22 18:29:00 -
[72]
Quote:
It's easy to say "It's an MMO, play it with others" but the fact of the matter is that there are people who prefer to do their own thing, and if the game evolves in a direction that won't accomodate them, they will leave, eventually.
posted by:
Originally by: FACLON ALT
huh
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MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.12.22 18:32:00 -
[73]
Originally by: FACLON ALT @Shasz, whereabouts is your neck of the woods, if I may ask?
You are just full of fail and lazy. Look him up in-game?
I take it to you it's only unfair when you get the short end of the stick. I'm willing to bet when you engage a miner on a belt you ain't thinking of this 'honor' you so graciously speak of here.
But if that miner turns out to be bait, well, that changes everything. No fair. Go cry somewhere else.
Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today! |
Mutnin
Amarr Mutineers
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Posted - 2010.12.22 19:22:00 -
[74]
The reason baiting is so common these days is the very same reason gate camping is so popular. It's "easy", no brains needed PVP.
The simple fact is many people are extremely lazy and even worse lack any sort of balls when it comes to PVP. Added to this, is the lack of any sort of tactical planning needed other than bait & blob and you get the current PVP environment we see in low sec.
Is there a solution? I don't think so, not so long as CCP keeps pushing the same ole, same ole, of bigger blob = better.
I just evolved my tactics and ships, to counter the best I can and rack up hit and run kills on the blobs. It's really not that hard to deal with them TBH, because most blob baiters are horrible at PVP, so it's typically easy to split them up and kill one or two and get out before the blob lands.
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Ephemeron
Solitairian Society
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Posted - 2010.12.22 19:29:00 -
[75]
This is the type of thing that is encouraged as the average defense/offense ratio increases
Over the years, CCP continuously boosted ship tanking ability to greater extend than offensive ability. So the PvP tactics can also have a gradual pattern of change.
The simple explanation: the longer it takes for 1 ship to kill another, the greater number of ships will participate in killing of a single target.
It is especially visible in low sec because it is dominated by heavier tanked ships. The gate sentry guns discourage use of lighter ships and speed setups. Ratio of tank/gank is higher in low sec than in 0.0
0.0 is more favorable to solo PvP, unless you are in a heavy slow ship, in which case you'll get hot dropped or even DD'ed by one of the 400 bored titan pilots.
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Ephemeron
Solitairian Society
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Posted - 2010.12.22 19:31:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Artemis Rose Fly a kiting ship like everybody else does and HTFU.
More empire wardeccing means more people with neutral RR alts, and thus more subscriptions.
Regarding the kiting ship tactic - that was indeed powerful solution couple years back. But due to popular whining CCP decided to nerf the hell out of speed tactics, making sure that the dominate way to PvP was pure tank and gank.
The days when 1 solo guy could take on a small crowd of heavy ships are long gone.
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StillBorn CrackBaby
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Posted - 2010.12.22 19:49:00 -
[77]
Originally by: FACLON ALT Because 'winning' is empty and meaningless if you won because of bait and superior numbers, as opposed to skill. I fail to see what kind of satisfaction people could possibly get from it.
I agree.
I watched 15 of my buddies attack a lone Battle Cruiser and melt it in 10 seconds. I sat back and watched, I had no interest in just pounding on a guy who couldn't fight back. Not fun for me...
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Bhattran
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Posted - 2010.12.22 20:08:00 -
[78]
Originally by: FACLON ALT
Originally by: stoicfaux Sounds like OP wants some kind of dueling system to ensure a fair-ish fight, or maybe a dedicated instanced PvP battleground or LFF (looking for fight) feature.
Hell no. If that was all I wanted Sisi would suffice.
I'm trying to get this, So what would fix the issue you see, would only increasing the population in lowsec do it or are there other things that might. Also don't you think that if there were more people in lowsec that baiting and other group activities on whomever would just increase due to the influx of people?
I tend to think, that more people there won't get you what you want, if more people went there they'd go in groups or failing that team up in corporations to secure themselves from all the other 'solo' players or actual groups of pirates/etc.
I don't see anything making a solo pvp style workable to the point it wouldn't get taken advantage of without some mechanic like an 'arena', because that is what lots of EVE players do. IMO w/o the rules forcing people to be on their own on limiting the 'battleground' to just two players people will cheat and bring in RR alts, have friends help, bring in their other characters to assist and so on.
--WIS/Incarna/Ambulation where microtransactions come to play, and uh bars.-- |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.12.22 20:41:00 -
[79]
On the flip side though, if I roll a (small) gang around in lowsec, if I _don't_ bait, then I'll end up not seeing a fight at all, or getting a massive blob land. If baiting, I'll usually only see 'a few' go for my lone ship, which means when I bring in backup, it becomes a reasonable sort of a fight.
Ironically, this is the artifact of lowsec being too 'safe'. Sentry guns mean ships need to be a certain size class - or above - because otherwise, they'll just die to the sentries when they engage. Some manner of sliding scale of security - one kill is easy, 10 means a response of some kind - would mean you'd get a more small-gang like skirmish, in smaller ships.
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Hakaru Ishiwara
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2010.12.22 20:47:00 -
[80]
I have changed my subjective troll rating to 10/10. This guy is good!
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Aquana Abyss
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Posted - 2010.12.22 21:39:00 -
[81]
I like the irony of your name and this thread.
TBH yes it is killing solo pvp. Inty and frigs are the only real solo fights I caqn get anymore - everyones a ***.
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FACLON ALT
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Posted - 2010.12.22 22:04:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Aquana Abyss I like the irony of your name and this thread.
Falconalts are perfectly legit counters to baiting, imho. Purely to facilitate GTFO when you realise the blob is on the way.
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youknow who
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Posted - 2010.12.22 22:05:00 -
[83]
Your trying to treat a symtom rather than the cause. As others and yourself have said, people dont like to lose ships. Why?
Ask yourself, why do you hate losing ships? Is it because your a bad loser? Is it because you dont have the time between work to get a replacement's? Is it getting the ships out where you need them that grinds your gears? Are you really that lazy?
Nope thought not, so why do most of us go into PVP wanting to solo and yet end up baiting, blobbing, hotdropping, kiting etc?
Most will hate the answer.
Its killmail's and killboards.
Every decent pvp corp ive been in or applied to checks me out on battleclinic to see if my kill death ratio is any good. Every corp insists i submit every killmail whilst i'm a member, even solo kills which have nothing to do with them. So many times i've seen good players in corps make a couple of daft mistakes, lose ships, and then get booted for spoiling the corp/alliances killboard ratio. Everyone seems obsessed with them.
And if that wasn't enough people see fit to try and publically humiliate others by posting "comedy/failfit" loss's on forums/local chat. Sometime's its smack sometimes its not.
And what do killboards really do anyhow? we all know they never tell the story of each fight, thus anyone can look an asshat or a hero at times. Remote repair anyone?
Imagine if WOW, SWG or any other mmorpg had a killmail system. Who wants a mail for every wizard you slapped senseless? Who gives a dam what he was wearing and how much damage i did, he died i didn't. You really think all those Warriors would be so keen to charge into clumps of other players if they were judged on how many times they died or what their "fit" is?
Can you imagine how sad you would look posting and lol'ing at some of the hundreds of dwarf kills you have?
Its pleasing and rather soothing to know that in about 2 months time every Pvp'er in the game will be beaten by a can flipper according to battleclinic, proving once and for all that killmails/killboards and all of the effort that goes into them is pointless and, i'd argue prohibitive to many pvp engagements.
So many times i've listened to FC's on vent who are able to work out the outcome of a 20v20 engagement before it happens and if its not in our favour, bottle it because it'll make the killboard look bad.
Honestly, how many times have you seen that happen for the reason discussed?
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Kahega Amielden
T.R.I.A.D
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Posted - 2010.12.22 22:11:00 -
[84]
Quote: Its killmail's and killboards.
Came in here to post this, pleasantly surprised to see that it's already been posted.
People are KM *****s. I wouldn't be sad to see the entire KM system go.
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FACLON ALT
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Posted - 2010.12.22 22:14:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Quote: Its killmail's and killboards.
Came in here to post this, pleasantly surprised to see that it's already been posted.
People are KM *****s. I wouldn't be sad to see the entire KM system go.
+1
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Jennifer Starling
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.12.22 22:18:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Quote: Its killmail's and killboards.
Came in here to post this, pleasantly surprised to see that it's already been posted.
People are KM *****s. I wouldn't be sad to see the entire KM system go.
Agreed! +1
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Kahega Amielden
T.R.I.A.D
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Posted - 2010.12.22 22:23:00 -
[87]
an interesting middle ground would just be removing API autosyncing and API KM verification. When people have to manually post all their kills and losses if they want them to show up, they become a lot less trustworthy and a lot less prominent...and people wouldn't be afraid of losses so much.
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Stuart Price
Caldari The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2010.12.22 22:38:00 -
[88]
Edited by: Stuart Price on 22/12/2010 22:41:21 Edited by: Stuart Price on 22/12/2010 22:40:17 I had some massive reply half typed out when I realised no-one would really care about what I used to get up to in my pirating career. Therefore I will get straight to the point:
It isn't baiting that's the problem. Baiting has always been 'Tactic Zero' of lowsec pvp in particular. I think the root of it is a combination of e-peen becoming more important than actual skill (a natural by-product of increased player numbers - you used to get 'famous' by simply being a good opponent. Now you have to be a proven, by statistics, winner to carry an argument since word of mouth is less powerful than it was) and inreased ease of logistics. You can bring massive numbers and materiel across massive distances with MUCH less effort than even a year ago. This has proven a double-edged sword.
I don't have any real answers, since by this point any 'simple' solution would have massive consequences elsewhere. As with real life, some afflictions have no cure. It's a matter of what you can do to minimise the symptoms to yourself.
In that regard, there are plenty of ways to minimise your exposure as has already been pointed out.
EDIT: yeah, the killboard mentality falls under my first argument, so I guess I'd agree with a lot of the 'BLAME KB's' sentiment. I do so love statistics for my own pleasure though. Maybe kb's where you can ONLY see actions you were personally involved in? :p
Putting the 'irate' into 'Pirate' |
Olleybear
Minmatar I R' Carebear
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Posted - 2010.12.22 23:37:00 -
[89]
Guys. Wow. All the flames are a bit much. OP asked has an opinion and is trying to get feedback. Saying, 'You suck you cave dweller.' isn't exactly productive. I stopped reading in the middle of the 2nd page because of the flames.
To the OP. I understand what your saying. I agree, solo pvp is very hard. Its why I love it. Someone else has given you part of the answer to your solo pvp woes. It really is a good answer. Kiting ships.
Fly ships that are fast and manuverable. It works very well. Another person even gave you a specific ship, the shield rupture, to fly for this. Shield rupture is an excellent, cheap, high dps ship for the soloer. Look on battleclinic under my losses to see how I fit a rupture if your interested.
Fly in the same low-sec systems day after day. Get to know the area and who flys there. In a short amount of time you will know exactly what to expect when you engage someone. You have a homefield advantage of sorts.
To get better odds of 1 v 1, try the 2/10 plexes around low sec. If your already inside, you have a much better chance of controlling the engagement and limiting bait traps.
I would just like to add one final thing. I've been baited a few times. Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose. For me, theres nothing more fun than having 4 or 5 guys jump in to try and kill you and then kill 1 or more of their ships without dieing in a fire.
IMHO, I think you just need a bit of practice is all.
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Drakarin
Gallente Absentia Libertas Solus
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Posted - 2010.12.23 00:04:00 -
[90]
Originally by: FACLON ALT
Originally by: Trader Gandry
Give me one good reason as why I would risk losing a fight if I have the means to make sure I win it.
Because 'winning' is empty and meaningless if you won because of bait and superior numbers, as opposed to skill. I fail to see what kind of satisfaction people could possibly get from it.
I am stuck in the same mental dilemma. It seems most of EvE players enjoy winning battles they couldn't possibly have lost. I cannot for the life of me understand how that is even remotely fun.
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