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JohnPaulJones
Caldari
DarkStar 1
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.12.23 04:35:00 -
[1]
Thinking entirely too much about EVE and it crossed my mind these ships are nearly useless as of the latest patch with the possible exception of suicide ganking thanks to the ships assault capability which is seriously disproportionate to its tanking capability. I havent failed to note that its popular as a suicide cyno boat as well.
One may notice the battlecruiser and HAC are about matched as are the Command Ship and Battleship yet the Destoyer would stand abosultely no chance against an Assault Ship or Faction frigate.
The Destroyers tank should be brought in line and I think since this IS a frigate killer it should as well have a role bonus specific to the task. What roles then?
I was thinking an immunity of the MWD to the effects of a +2 warp scram as the best candidate with another perhaps immunity or reduction to the effect of stasis webs. These two roles IMO best fit the described role of this potential powerhouse without detracting the roles of other ship classes.
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DrDooma
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Posted - 2010.12.23 05:27:00 -
[2]
Edited by: DrDooma on 23/12/2010 05:28:42
Totally agree. As is, destroyers are useless. Even tanked interdictors are no match for Taranis.
What is even worse is that Taranis will pop any destroyer size ship in 2 or 3 volleys, so just giving it the bonuses to web and scram will not solve the problem. Perhaps increasing their resistances past 60% might fix the problem allow larger ships to kill destroyers hast enough before they can pose any treat to them.
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Crazy KSK
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Posted - 2010.12.23 06:55:00 -
[3]
what they need is a buff of all stats to that of a cruiser (well a bit lower maybe) and keep the bonuses as they are
sure you could then fit medium weapons on them but you would get the -25% fire rate and no bonuses
and btw destroyer hulls are the size of a cruiser so its kinda strange why they have such low stats anyway
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ACE81
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.12.23 07:09:00 -
[4]
Destroyers need a sig rad reduction and 2 of them need there slots adjusted ( +1 low -1 mid on cormi +1 mids -1 low on corcer) remove the -25%rof penaty and with these little changes the dessy would be much better but still not op ship IMO
"I want a Secure can thats as big as my Jet can for solo mining :P 27k m3"
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Sir Drake
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Posted - 2010.12.23 08:42:00 -
[5]
Only thing i see that those destroyers really need is a massiv tracking bonus, so they can reliably shoot and hit(!) anything in range (maybe a bonus to optimal too).
The glass-cannon approche on them is fine and it should die to anything cruiser sized or bigger (therfore sig is fine) but on the same take it should be able to kill any of the fast frigs, eg. Dramiels/Daredevils/ceptors should all die in a blink no matter how fast those go (much more tracking needed).
From my pov the only thing smaller than itself that should be able to take it out with a 50/50 chance would be the assault frigs.
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They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.
Terry Pratchett |
ACE81
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.12.23 09:21:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Sir Drake
The glass-cannon approche on them is fine and it should die to anything cruiser sized or bigger (therfore sig is fine) but on the same take it should be able to kill any of the fast frigs, eg. Dramiels/Daredevils/ceptors should all die in a blink no matter how fast those go (much more tracking needed).
From my pov the only thing smaller than itself that should be able to take it out with a 50/50 chance would be the assault frigs.
You know after thinking about it I agree with this but slot lay out needs to be adjusted on the cormorant and the coercer after thinking about it perhaps to keep things different -1 hi +1 low on the cormorant and -1 high +1 mid on the coercer leaving each ship different. But I still think the -25%ROF penaty is a bit much do we nerf BCs ROF too for having 8 slots no so why nerf the destroyer ROF?
"I want a Secure can thats as big as my Jet can for solo mining :P 27k m3"
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JohnPaulJones
Caldari
DarkStar 1
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.12.23 09:36:00 -
[7]
To have a 50/50 chance against an assault ship would place this ship perfectly in balance with other T1 ships as a matter of fact. I believe we are seeing a massive overlook of this platform on the part of CCP but perhaps we can make them see a need for the ship.
The Assault Ship has the edge in speed & agility and the Destroyer has the edge in...Houston we have a problem.
Give the Destroyer a role and a buffer to match the AF. We will start to see them on the field as we should.
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JohnPaulJones
Caldari
DarkStar 1
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.12.23 09:38:00 -
[8]
Edited by: JohnPaulJones on 23/12/2010 09:40:06
Quote:
do we nerf BCs ROF too for having 8 slots
Carefull with that please. Dont give them bad ideas.
I agree a better slot layout will help to some degree. Each ship needs to be refined from what it was at the beginning,all others have had a makeover yet the destroyer is neglected.
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Jekyl Eraser
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Posted - 2010.12.23 10:44:00 -
[9]
Originally by: JohnPaulJones
Edited by: JohnPaulJones on 23/12/2010 09:40:06
Quote:
do we nerf BCs ROF too for having 8 slots
Carefull with that please. Dont give them bad ideas.
heh. so thats why destroyers are so crap compared to frigs and BC:s are so awesomesauce compared to sad cruisers.
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Angel Vrae
Gallente
Carebearly Legal
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Posted - 2010.12.23 11:07:00 -
[10]
I completly agree. Before the Noctis, the destroyer was only usefull for low level missions and high sec rat salvaging.
A further upgrade of these would be Anti-stealth Ships. Much like the P3 Orion is used to find submarines today, Destroyers could be used perhaps a new tech II variant) to disable and cloaking device within a radius (might be through a deployed Object like the 'diction spheres) or just from a module on the ship itself.
Either way +1 to this idea
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.12.23 15:54:00 -
[11]
Destroyers again, has it been a week already? 
A properly flown/fitted destroyer will utterly smash any and all frigates, even T2 and faction. Been there, done that .. still doing it when I occasionally get tired of my Brawler Slicer.
Fun fact #1: Destroyers with a damage control has as much EHP as a buffered T1 frigate.
Fun fact #2: Destroyers pack 2-3 times the damage of T1 frigates, 1.5-2 times that of T2 frigates.
Reduce signatures to frigate+50%.
Reduce mass to achieve speed of roughly 2k/s with MWD before racial variation.
Further changes are not really needed balance wise. Gives them a ton of survivability against cruisers and bigger plus gives them a definitive edge against their primary prey.
Would personally like to see less guns with bigger bonuses to save ISK when fitting the damn things, but not a balance issue.
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DrDooma
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Posted - 2010.12.24 02:47:00 -
[12]
I once again would like to point out that the problem is that destroyers will go down in 3 voiles to a Taranis and will be outgunned by most fraction ships due to them being better tanked.
JohnPaulJones
Destroyer should have higher then 50/50 changes against assault ships as this is what it is designed to do. Destroyers are not ideal for any other task as they are can only be fitted for a single purpose. You are always going to be making a decision as to sacralising speed, lock time or tank to match just some one of the attributes of an assault ship.
Your chance of survival against an insta-pop BCare also much higher in an assault ship since you can just burn away.
irana Yoshida,
Your suggestion will make destroyer an unti-cruiser boat but will have no effect on smaller ships. Which are faster (as they should be) and have adequate tracing speed to hit other frig size ships.
As is, you are much better of flying a stabber then a destroyer since you can fit a stabber to easily outperform destroyers in every category.
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Reaver Glitterstim
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Posted - 2010.12.24 03:07:00 -
[13]
A destroyer can fit a decent tank when you put a medium shield extender or 400mm armor plates along with a resistance enhancer. Problem is, it doesn't have enough extra slots to fit much other than that.
I think perhaps the biggest flaw with destroyers is merely that they're all-out damage ships. If each race had 2 destroyers to pick from, one like the current and one with 6 weapon slots and a couple more low or mid slots, then you could definitely fit some good tank on it.
Another cool thing that might prove useful would be a 20mn afterburner or microwarp. It'd cost a bit more powergrid and capacitor, but the destroyer would get the full speed bonus from it, thus allowing a destroyer to rival the speed of a frigate even when using AB or MWD. Alternatively, a frigate could mount one and go extra fast.
With more low slots, a destroyer could also fit some extra speed or inertial boosting modules, and thusly a properly fitted destroyer could potentially even match the speed of a slow frigate. That's combined with much better tank and damage output. I don't think it'd be underpowered then. And that's without even buffing the thing, just rearranging the current stats a little.
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Kyieshes Tierune
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Posted - 2010.12.27 09:10:00 -
[14]
The only problem with a destroyer and interdictor is its mid slots the only destroyer worth its salt is thrasher/sabre all the other factions need serious reworks and ccp giving just 1 mid slot to any frig/destroyer class ship is a bit dumb.
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1600 RT
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Posted - 2010.12.27 10:44:00 -
[15]
Edited by: 1600 RT on 27/12/2010 10:44:00
fixing destroyer wouldnt be that hard if CCP really wanted it
just give them + 1 slot and + fitting to the one who need it
coercer + 1 med slot the fitting stats are already fine but a + 5 grid wont hurt it
catalyst + 1 med slot + 10 grid +30 cpu so the thing will be able to fit some sort of a tank (or neutrons) and a web in the extra mid
cormorant + 1 low and + 13 grid for ions+mse+mwd fit
thrasher + 1 low and + 20 cpu to use that low
after that thrasher and catalyst get their +50% optimal per level changed to a + 50% falloff
destroyer are fixed now
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Niklas
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Posted - 2010.12.27 12:11:00 -
[16]
Sig reduction. Somewhere in the 50s. Some buff to buffer as well.
Go down to 6 weapon slots, and ditch the ROF nerf, then take those 2 slots, and put them on the mids/lows. This would give them 7 slots for utility and tank, rather than the loltastic 5 they have now.
A role I'd love seeing them have, aside from frig killers, is fighter killers. Fighters, and esp fighter bombers, have rather huge hitpoints though. Can CCP do a role bonus of plus damage to a specific target type?
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Jokerface666
Amarr
The Warp Squad
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Posted - 2010.12.27 16:12:00 -
[17]
Real destroyers are used for hunting and dropping mines,
i would really like to see us dropping mines, like cloaked little charges which go BOOM when something gets closer then 2k, they would be the covops killers number on.
It also would give a much higher depth to the game, when jumping to a gang that has dropped some mines in front of them, or your scout gets blown up while trying to get a warp in.
BR,
Joker o7
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Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.12.27 16:50:00 -
[18]
The problem with destroyers is that their supposed role doesn't match what they're actually capable of - they may have been more viable before the hitpoint buff (Revelations 1?) when their 8-gun salvo could actually alphastrike anything, but now they're left with a role of 'mediocre alpha, poor dps from long range' with the exception of the thrasher which can occasionally 1-shot poorly buffered targets (because a) artillery has the best volley damage, b) unlike the other three the thrasher gets an actual damage bonus, and c) the thrasher has a sensible slot layout which allows it to fit a combination of damage mods, tracking computers, and a sensor booster).
My recommendation? Drop the alphastrike fixation and rework destroyers so that they actually work in combat rather than ineffectively plinking away at range until the target notices the small dent in their shield and nukes the destroyer or drives it away. More speed, less sig, more HP, bonuses which don't exclusively favour long range sniping.
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Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.12.27 17:16:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Jokerface666
Real destroyers are used for hunting and dropping mines,
i would really like to see us dropping mines, like cloaked little charges which go BOOM when something gets closer then 2k, they would be the covops killers number on.
It also would give a much higher depth to the game, when jumping to a gang that has dropped some mines in front of them, or your scout gets blown up while trying to get a warp in.
Mines used to be in the game (they still exist in the database) but were removed because they were horribly broken.
They wouldn't be used in specific tactical circumstances as you suggest, they'd be used to spam stargates by the dozen and grief indiscriminately.
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Jokerface666
Amarr
The Warp Squad
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Posted - 2010.12.27 17:28:00 -
[20]
i know that, but if you make the mines that every destroyer can drop like 5 (instead of drones), and limit them to explode as soon as the destroyer which has dropped them is not in space anymore, it should be fine.
i'd really like that.
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1600 RT
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Posted - 2010.12.27 17:58:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Scatim Helicon
The problem with destroyers is that their supposed role doesn't match what they're actually capable of - they may have been more viable before the hitpoint buff (Revelations 1?) when their 8-gun salvo could actually alphastrike anything, but now they're left with a role of 'mediocre alpha, poor dps from long range' with the exception of the thrasher which can occasionally 1-shot poorly buffered targets (because a) artillery has the best volley damage, b) unlike the other three the thrasher gets an actual damage bonus, and c) the thrasher has a sensible slot layout which allows it to fit a combination of damage mods, tracking computers, and a sensor booster).
My recommendation? Drop the alphastrike fixation and rework destroyers so that they actually work in combat rather than ineffectively plinking away at range until the target notices the small dent in their shield and nukes the destroyer or drives it away. More speed, less sig, more HP, bonuses which don't exclusively favour long range sniping.
actually a thrasher cant even one shot a unfitted ceptor unless he got lucky and strike a good hit
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.12.27 19:22:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Jokerface666
Real destroyers are used for hunting and dropping mines...
Here I was under the impression that they are primarily sub-hunters and act as anti-air screen for taskforces.
Anti-air: Already covered with range and tracking bonuses.
Sub-Hunt: Active scanner ping that makes cloaked vessels susceptible to probing. Useless on its own, will need a covert buddy to probe.
The closer the destroyer is to target the larger the signature (for probing purposes).
Still want the destroyer class balanced before adding all sorts of funky **** to it though 
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Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.12.27 20:39:00 -
[23]
Originally by: 1600 RT
actually a thrasher cant even one shot a unfitted ceptor unless he got lucky and strike a good hit
Perhaps, but the other three would consider themselves lucky if they one-shotted a shuttle or rookie ship.
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Corina Jarr
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Posted - 2010.12.27 21:11:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Scatim Helicon
Originally by: 1600 RT
actually a thrasher cant even one shot a unfitted ceptor unless he got lucky and strike a good hit
Perhaps, but the other three would consider themselves lucky if they one-shotted a shuttle or rookie ship.
Wonderful hyperbole.
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