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Professor Tarantula Hedion University	Posted - 2010.12.24 21:54:00 - [91] Originally by: Killstealing Originally by: Professor Tarantula Originally by: Cupio Mortem my reward usually comes in the form of cackling laughter followed by trying to rouse up some tears-filled-evemails from the loser. I'm not sadistic, so that stuff doesn't amuse or satisfy me. only ****s (and I use that in the most literal meaning) are incapable of schadenfreude. I'll laugh if i see someone get sent on their ass by slipping on ice or something, but if i see someone tripping people and laughing at them, then harassing and mocking them trying to get a reaction, that person is clearly **ed in the head. My Warmest Regards. Prof. Tarantula, Esq.
Messoroz The Scope	Posted - 2010.12.24 22:37:00 - [92] Without killmails, how would I prove I took down a 4 man gang in a battle orca? Or ganked a t3 armor tanked tengu in wh space using a moa?
Demolishar	Posted - 2010.12.24 23:17:00 - [93] Killboards are integral to EVE gameplay. Removing them is unthinkable.
Space Pinata Amarr Discount Napkin Industries	Posted - 2010.12.24 23:46:00 - [94] Originally by: Messoroz Without killmails, how would I prove I took down a 4 man gang in a battle orca? Or ganked a t3 armor tanked tengu in wh space using a moa? [orange]lol what you do is use a fraps thingy and loadup it to the youtubes silly boy[/size=5]
Sky Marshal IMpAct Corp Not Found.	Posted - 2010.12.24 23:50:00 - [95] Edited by: Sky Marshal on 24/12/2010 23:55:43 Removing them, I hope for it. Barring that, it is possible to modify them. Because whatever the OP is trolling or not, he is right. Killboards have an impact on your playstyle. The reality, is that even if you don't care of your stats, others players will care of yours. So you can't do whatever you want so can't have fun easily, as you have to work efficiently to avoid any problems from other players. Of course, many PVP players can say that it is easy to forget their judgement or to change corp, but as long as you can't control the diffusion of your kills/losses, you can't avoid every possible case. After all, elitists and e-peeners banned to everyone the capacity to control their personal stats, by syndication, and CCP after that by the API. But a loss is a loss, whatever the size of the ship or the importance of the ship, and people hate lose and hate loosers. So Killboards are an annoyance as they encourage the fear of lose, this by keeping an history that WE CAN'T CONTROL. L4 missions are not the only factor who explains why the majority of EVE players stay in Empire. At least, the first thing who can be done, is to remove the name of the destroyed player in all future lossmails. This way, we make the loss only a Corp/Alliance general problem, but depending of their victories, this can be controlled. We keep the intel function of the KBs but reduce partially the annoyance of them. Signature removed for not being EVE related. Zymurgist
Emperor Cheney Celebrity Sex Tape	Posted - 2010.12.24 23:57:00 - [96] I don't care if I win or lose, as long as everyone's a good sport. But, many of my corpmates sure do. As do our enemies. As do our allies. So, I have to start playing conservative, i.e., play in a less fun way. But on the flipside, killmails is all that a lot of people play for. If they were removed, then what's to come of all those players? Just because I disagree with a playstyle doesn't mean its practitioners are somehow in the wrong. I'd be happy if CCP just eliminated killmails entirely. But, then I'd expect bunch of ragequits. Granted, ragequits by people I by and large can't stand, but still, that's bad for CCP.
Ryhss Caldari 42nd Airborn	Posted - 2010.12.25 00:13:00 - [97] Originally by: Fvr Pvpr Than a fat kid playing soccer. You just ruin every game your in especially eve. I'm in a pvp corp. We get tons of kills you think that would be fun right NO its NOT because everyone is obsessed with their KB and their stats. The ISK the DAMAGE the K:L ration blahblahblah jesus christ. Everything is about this. People use like 3 diferent kbs.... wth. It made me start looking at mine I only have 1 loss and hundreds of kills. lol... now I am obsessed with it to. I cant enjoy killing ** because its all about the kb. You people are obsessed with it and I can't play the game and me involved in 99% of the conversations without hearing about it. This applies to almost every corp in the game that does PVP. It's just not fun anymore... everyone is obessed with this. [orange] CCP REMOVE KILL MAILS [/size=5] You know how I said I am one of you now? A killmail *? How I hate this game because of it... well you for that. I hate this . You know I rare;y ever look at your killboards ever. I don't care about them. I don't care at all do you guys actually think anyone cares about any other killboard besides their own? No one goes around autopiloting looking up peoples kbs and saying oo that dude is great. lol... They probably don't even if your their enemy. Just god wtf I want to buy battle clinic and take it down but then you *gots would just use other ones... jesus. This is awful. /Signed.
Atrei Capital	Posted - 2010.12.25 00:17:00 - [98] It's really hard to say. Removing killmails is a bit drastic. Making losses and kills anonymous makes them harder to confirm (though, API verification..) I can't say I'd lose any sleep over it, though. Despite having decent killboard stats (93%~ efficiency), I still can't just roll out and take big risks. I've been in corps where they told you it's better to lose 10 possible kills than to take a lossmail. Efficiency whoring. The simple fact is, losing a ship is not that big of a deal, unless you're really bad at making ISK. We blow it all out of proportion, though.. For most people with some actual ISK to play with, the big drawback is the lack of sportsmanship, rather than the fear of loss. Iunno. Maybe it's changed, but nullsec battles tended to end with a 'gf' all around. If there was a thread about it, both sides were pretty friendly. Maybe that's changed. Maybe the whole game has changed. Most highsec/lowsec corps seem to be obsessed with these fictional 'tears' though, and if they can't get them, they'll just pretend they happened. Long story short? "Harsh Game" =/= "be a ** to everyone you fight". It's all the equivalent of being that little teenager who screams obscenities into an xbox live microphone because he totally got a kill. I've never understood why everyone has this foaming hatred of everyone else in this game. You don't all chestbeat and call people '****s' in person, do you?
Emperor Cheney Celebrity Sex Tape	Posted - 2010.12.25 00:43:00 - [99] Originally by: Atrei Capital Most highsec/lowsec corps seem to be obsessed with these fictional 'tears' though, and if they can't get them, they'll just pretend they happened. Absolutely. The base problem is that EVE is full of a lot of really poor sports, but that's not going to change. This is a competitive venture (i.e. sport) for a lot of guys who by and large never played real life sports, and consequently never learned teamanship. Add on a layer of internet anonymity, and there's really no limit to the bleating of beards and the beating on floppy chests.
Guttripper Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2010.12.25 01:31:00 - [100] Originally by: Emperor Cheney Originally by: Atrei Capital Most highsec/lowsec corps seem to be obsessed with these fictional 'tears' though, and if they can't get them, they'll just pretend they happened. Absolutely. The base problem is that EVE is full of a lot of really poor sports, but that's not going to change. This is a competitive venture (i.e. sport) for a lot of guys who by and large never played real life sports, and consequently never learned teamanship. Add on a layer of internet anonymity, and there's really no limit to the bleating of beards and the beating on floppy chests. I agree with the good Emperor here 110%.
Infinity Ziona Minmatar Cloakers	Posted - 2010.12.25 01:59:00 - [101] Originally by: Fvr Pvpr Than a fat kid playing soccer. You just ruin every game your in especially eve. I'm in a pvp corp. We get tons of kills you think that would be fun right NO its NOT because everyone is obsessed with their KB and their stats. The ISK the DAMAGE the K:L ration blahblahblah jesus christ. Everything is about this. People use like 3 diferent kbs.... wth. It made me start looking at mine I only have 1 loss and hundreds of kills. lol... now I am obsessed with it to. I cant enjoy killing ** because its all about the kb. You people are obsessed with it and I can't play the game and me involved in 99% of the conversations without hearing about it. This applies to almost every corp in the game that does PVP. It's just not fun anymore... everyone is obessed with this. [orange] CCP REMOVE KILL MAILS [/size=5] You know how I said I am one of you now? A killmail *? How I hate this game because of it... well you for that. I hate this . You know I rare;y ever look at your killboards ever. I don't care about them. I don't care at all do you guys actually think anyone cares about any other killboard besides their own? No one goes around autopiloting looking up peoples kbs and saying oo that dude is great. lol... They probably don't even if your their enemy. Just god wtf I want to buy battle clinic and take it down but then you gots would just use other ones... jesus. This is awful. Killboards serve one purpose. To provide intel to your enemies on ships you fly, fittings and locations you frequent. Agreed, I don't go looking up peoples killmails to be awed by their kills. I look them up for fits (if they have good solo stats), intel or to laugh at them on forums for being blob****s and pretending they have any skill. The only stats that matter on a personal killboard are personal solo kills and small gang kills. Since solo / small gang is 100% your effort and your not riding the coattails of 100's of other people you gang with. I'm sure I could get an awesome kill/death ratio with a newbie ship if I followed a blob around all day. --------------------------------------------- Hate Bots / RMT? Do something worthwhile and good for EvE and cause tears and anguish for others, while doing absolutely nothing yourself! Join up.
Selinate Amarr Wardens of the Void	Posted - 2010.12.25 03:09:00 - [102] I assume this is similar to Gear Score in WoW in it's effects on the game. "What? You don't have a GS of 8k? You can't go on this raid with us!!!" "Then how the hell am I going to get the gear that gives me a higher GS if I can't go on this raid?" "Who the hell cares, that's your problem, BYE HAVE FUN!"
Joe Phoenix	Posted - 2010.12.25 03:19:00 - [103] Originally by: Selinate I assume this is similar to Gear Score in WoW in it's effects on the game. "What? You don't have a GS of 8k? You can't go on this raid with us!!!" "Then how the hell am I going to get the gear that gives me a higher GS if I can't go on this raid?" "Who the hell cares, that's your problem, BYE HAVE FUN!" I have no idea what you are talking about but it sounds really sad.
Space Pinata Amarr Discount Napkin Industries	Posted - 2010.12.25 03:23:00 - [104] Originally by: Selinate I assume this is similar to Gear Score in WoW in it's effects on the game. "What? You don't have a GS of 8k? You can't go on this raid with us!!!" "Then how the hell am I going to get the gear that gives me a higher GS if I can't go on this raid?" "Who the hell cares, that's your problem, BYE HAVE FUN!" Pretty much yeah. Or yknow.. I used to hear people on vent begging for people to hurry up and post the killmails. Before the battle was even over. We're trying to scoop loot and scan down runners and they're already alt-tabbing to fap to killmails.
Musashi IV	Posted - 2010.12.25 06:58:00 - [105] Someone needs a hug!
Razor Blue Hyvat Pahat ja Eric The Polaris Syndicate	Posted - 2010.12.25 09:22:00 - [106] I somewhat agree. Killmails are what are really breaking the low sec. They should get small nerf. Killmails showing only ship type, corp and alliance would be enough. Maybe add option for players to turn on/off their name and module losses?
Lillith Starfire	Posted - 2010.12.25 09:38:00 - [107] Killmails. Because, in Eve, even sneezing at the other guy counts as a kill.
Telvani	Posted - 2010.12.25 09:49:00 - [108] [orange] it's a templar, an amarr fighter used by carrier[/size=5]
Typhis Deterious Firebird Squadron Terra-Incognita	Posted - 2010.12.25 10:07:00 - [109] Originally by: 0oO0oOoOo0o Op probably has very bad KB stats... Agreed. I would very much like a link to this hundreds of kills and only 1 loss stuffz. ________________________________ R.I.P Trinity Nova
He Mad	Posted - 2010.12.25 10:37:00 - [110] Originally by: Typhis Deterious Originally by: 0oO0oOoOo0o Op probably has very bad KB stats... Agreed. I would very much like a link to this hundreds of kills and only 1 loss stuffz. Of course you would
He Mad	Posted - 2010.12.25 10:46:00 - [111] Edited by: He Mad on 25/12/2010 10:46:59 Anyway. You could just take away killmails. The old ones would be meaningless. Because hey who know what happened after that vOv. When I'm flying around in lowsec and I see a young aspiring priate/pvp whatever I always feels bad because hes going to be slaughtered and then never let into a good pvp corp because of his losses which he can not really control as he's not really equipped or knowledgeable yet. I say trash them, they only bring really annoying adolencent personalities screaming to the forefront.
Hooch Flux Caldari	Posted - 2010.12.25 11:39:00 - [112] Remove everyone from KM's except the one who does the most damage. Will get rid of useless KM *****'s and could even be a roundabout way of combating blobing! I say prep for dustoff, nuke the site from orbit... Only way to be sure!
Drakarin Gallente Absentia Libertas Solus	Posted - 2010.12.25 12:46:00 - [113] Originally by: Karbowiak You should visit eve-kill some more.. Hell, i even added snow to the board! And as for killmails ruining your game, htfu *get. If you cant handle it, go play WoW or Hello Kitty Online. EVE is a man's game, not a ***'s game.. Explain to me how killmails (information overload) cause EvE to translate into a man's game? It makes the game predictable because no one wants to tarnish their record, it influences everybody's actions purely because of our human instincts. We want to win. Killmails take the fun out of this game and turn it into a job.
Jordon Spikes Gallente Mineral Traders of Eve Korp LLC.	Posted - 2010.12.25 13:00:00 - [114] I think you need to calm down and relax. now go kill someone.
Drakarin Gallente Absentia Libertas Solus	Posted - 2010.12.25 13:04:00 - [115] Originally by: Antihrist Pripravnik Edited by: Antihrist Pripravnik on 24/12/2010 12:57:30 Sure, I'll bite Originally by: Fvr Pvpr Than a fat kid playing soccer. You just ruin every game your in especially eve. I'm in a pvp corp. We get tons of kills you think that would be fun right NO its NOT because everyone is obsessed with their KB and their stats. The ISK the DAMAGE the K:L ration blahblahblah jesus christ. Everything is about this. Nope, it's not. If you happen to like the solo or small gang PvP (yep... a NC member who likes this... go figure ), you'll see that killboards are useful for analysing fleet setups and past battles. As basketball coaches spend hours looking at the statistics and previous games to see the strengths and weaknesses of their own and the opposite team, you can look at the killboard and battle statistics in EVE to see what ship(s) and when you can engage and what tactics should you use. The only problem with killmails is that they are not accurate enough. This is one of the most critical game breaking problems with the game, and you're suggesting to make it even worse? There is WAY too much information. Real life is primarily not fun just because of that. You can analyze and obtain information about anything if you want. The only difference is that in EvE, you don't even have to work for it. All the information you could ever possibly want is handed to you, so that a fight is not only predetermined, but everyone knows it before hand. This means there's always a hunter, and always a hunted, never a proper fight. This also applies to larger fleet battles, one can guess what the outcome of a fight would be so easily in this game just by knowing what the enemy(s) ship is and how old their character is. Originally by: Artemis Rose Without killmails, how can you brag about fighting outnumbered and outgunned? Might as well drop 10 things on everything scrap that floats in space, you won't be judged ... You are ridiculed for fighting solo, even if you win. The game does not encourage lone wolfs, nor do the players. Originally by: Shootmenot dammit Without killmails I would not play this game. It's always been said that PvP and its harsh consecuences were one of the main strong points of EvE. Losing your ships and your stuff is not important. Practically anything is replaceable in this game. But killmails provide the ultimate punishment: a constant, permanent testimony of one's defeat or victory. Yes, and BECAUSE of this, EVERYONE gangs up and uses the cheapeast most treacherous tactics so the risk is minimal, and just farm up your killmail stats. No one wants to go out and have some fun in a fit that may or may not work. No one wants to roam around solo because gasp, they may just tarnish their mantle piece record. It's pathetic, and completely ruins the PvP experience. You are right on one point though, ships, modules, anything you can lose is way too easy to regain. There has to be a penalty to death, and removing insurance would be a start towards that. Originally by: Cupio Mortem Originally by: Professor Tarantula The problem is, KMs are the only real reward of PvP in what is supposed to be a PvP centric game. ...wat?! If you view KM's as the only reward to PVP, you must really ****ing suck at PVP. And I mean REALLY. Because my reward usually comes in the form of cackling laughter followed by trying to rouse up some tears-filled-evemails from the loser. Excuse me if I'm not a ragging hillbilly savage that takes pleasure in the suffering of others. I PvP for fun, not to make people cry. Do you drink orphan tears for your morning beverage?
kaselo	Posted - 2010.12.25 13:23:00 - [116] Edited by: kaselo on 25/12/2010 13:24:01 Removing KM's would imo be a great way to boost solo pvp. People would be more likely to just go out there in their fancy ships and go blow stuff up or die trying. After all, whats to loose? only isk, and thats easily replaceable. As it stands at the moment, people just arent as likely to do that because as mentioned, alot of pvp corps use the record of your kills/losses when judging a potential recruit, which just encourages people to play it safe and take less risks aka blobbing. Quote: Yes, and BECAUSE of this, EVERYONE gangs up and uses the cheapeast most treacherous tactics so the risk is minimal, and just farm up your killmail stats. No one wants to go out and have some fun in a fit that may or may not work. No one wants to roam around solo because gasp, they may just tarnish their mantle piece record. exactly :)
Vapid Court	Posted - 2010.12.25 13:57:00 - [117] Edited by: Vapid Court on 25/12/2010 13:57:41 This thread has been so accurate. You know this is just an example. Around the learning skills changes. I had an alt that I was deciding what to do with. You know what? I didnt spend it to make my pvp better like with a prober or make him have his own career in militia or something like that. You know why? I didn't want to bother with/ be concerned with/ deal with at all him on the billboards. So I made him a freighter pilot and sold him... That's pretty sad. Take these things out of the game.
Drakarin Gallente Absentia Libertas Solus	Posted - 2010.12.25 14:12:00 - [118] While I personally praise those who go out and solo, and somehow come in first place, it is rare and for the most part the common soloer is not held in good light. The solo type seems to be the shy teen at a party. Excluded, left out and laughed at when the opportunity is right.
Barbelo Valentinian Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2010.12.25 16:15:00 - [119] Originally by: Drakarin No one wants to go out and have some fun in a fit that may or may not work. No one wants to roam around solo because gasp, they may just tarnish their mantle piece record. Good point, but actually some of us do. I don't give a flying f*k about KB stats (as should be obvious from looking at mine). Mostly I'm a carebear, but very occasionally I go out looking for fights. I haven't "won" one yet, in the sense of destroyed a ship or podded someone, the most I've done is a few times get people down to hull and they warp off. Why? Because I never have point, I'd rather fit silly ECM things for fun and experimentation, because I simply don't care about the abstraction of "winning" in a videogame, I just like the occasional adrenaline jag for a bit of variety in my own little game of pretending to be a spaceship pilot. How are people going to learn without losing a bit first? There's a saying in Chinese Kungfu "invest in loss". You learn a lot from losing. If people are afraid to lose and pick only easy fights, they remain sort of stunted in their experience, and stunted in the type of gameplay they will risk. You couldn't afford to take that sort of risk too much irl, or at least you'd have to measure it carefully, because loss irl is real loss - but in a game? If your self-esteem is tied to whether you win or lose at internet spaceships, isn't there something a bit wonky going on? (I think this was the Goons' point wasn't it?) Whether there are KBs or not, it's purely in players' minds and hands. I would never even consider joining a corp that cared* about KB stats as obsessively as some here are describing (and that's fine, because a corp like that would never have me ). Who cares? It's a frackin' videogame. Just fly about and have fun ffs. ***** "To wake up is to wake the world up" - D.E. Harding
Space Pinata Amarr Discount Napkin Industries	Posted - 2010.12.25 16:25:00 - [120] Quote: You couldn't afford to take that sort of risk too much irl, or at least you'd have to measure it carefully, because loss irl is real loss - but in a game? If your self-esteem is tied to whether you win or lose at internet spaceships, isn't there something a bit wonky going on? (I think this was the Goons' point wasn't it?) Every PVP corp will check your stats. "But I'd never join one who cared about..!" Then you'd never join a PVP corp. It's really that simple. If you run around not caring about killmails you'll end up solo or in one of those "NRDS But We Totally PVP (tm)" corps that failcascades when the first wardec comes through. A lot of us don't -want- to care about killmails. Think of it like being a professional artist. You'd love to experiment and try really difficult jobs you might fail, but you can't afford not to have an excellent track record, because then no one will hire you. And, if you find being in a good pvp corp fun.. sadly, not much choice.

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