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Fvr Pvpr
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Posted - 2010.12.24 02:37:00 -
[1]
Than a fat kid playing soccer. You just ruin every game your in especially eve. I'm in a pvp corp. We get tons of kills you think that would be fun right NO its NOT because everyone is obsessed with their KB and their stats. The ISK the DAMAGE the K:L ration blahblahblah jesus christ. Everything is about this. People use like 3 diferent kbs.... wth. It made me start looking at mine I only have 1 loss and hundreds of kills. lol... now I am obsessed with it to. I cant enjoy killing **** because its all about the kb. You people are obsessed with it and I can't play the game and me involved in 99% of the conversations without hearing about it.
This applies to almost every corp in the game that does PVP. It's just not fun anymore... everyone is obessed with this.
[orange] CCP REMOVE KILL MAILS [/size=5]
You know how I said I am one of you now? A killmail *****? How I hate this game because of it... well **** you for that. I hate this ****. You know I rare;y ever look at your killboards ever. I don't care about them. I don't care at all do you guys actually think anyone cares about any other killboard besides their own? No one goes around autopiloting looking up peoples kbs and saying oo that dude is great. lol... They probably don't even if your their enemy. Just god wtf I want to buy battle clinic and take it down but then you ***gots would just use other ones... jesus. This is awful.
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Jaina Sunspot
Agent-Orange
Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.12.24 02:39:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Fvr Pvpr
[orange] CCP REMOVE KILL MAILS [/size=5]
QB4Edit
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Frug
Omega Wing
Snatch Victory
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Posted - 2010.12.24 02:41:00 -
[3]
 Great post. 9/10. Especially since all pvpers know there's a nugget of truth in it.
Too bad there's no better alternative. A record of combat performance isn't all bad. We need something. Some heads to hang above our fireplace.
-
- - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - -
If you think I'm awesome say BOOO
BOOO!! - Ductoris
Neat look what I found - Kreul
Whisper/PrismX 4 emperor |
MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.12.24 02:42:00 -
[4]
I give you a 4/10. Needs more umph.
Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today! |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Sigma Special Tactics Group
Fleet Coordination Coalition
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Posted - 2010.12.24 03:13:00 -
[5]
Replace killmails with "incident reports". Everybody gets one, even the target/victim. May say a kill, may say a loss, may say the target self destructed, may say the attacker was fail. Whatever.
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Winters Chill
Amarr
The Die Sect
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Posted - 2010.12.24 03:20:00 -
[6]
I agree with Fvr Pvpr.
If only he hadn't come across as a ranty froth monger.
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Kyra Felann
Gallente
The Scope
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Posted - 2010.12.24 03:44:00 -
[7]
I agree that KBs are bad.
-----WARNING SIGNATURE BELOW-----
Originally by: CCP Ginger
Ships have crews, most pod controlled frigates do not, above that they have crews of varying sizes. Hope that helps.
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UltraViolet A
The Priesthood
The 0rphanage
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Posted - 2010.12.24 03:53:00 -
[8]
Concord could just track the wardec and decide a winner at the end using a few factors and what Herzog Wolfhammer said about the incident reports. Would be better I think
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Karbowiak
Caldari
Bad Company DBD
DEM0N HUNTERS
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Posted - 2010.12.24 03:58:00 -
[9]
You should visit eve-kill some more..
Hell, i even added snow to the board!
And as for killmails ruining your game, htfu ***get.
If you cant handle it, go play WoW or Hello Kitty Online.
EVE is a man's game, not a *****'s game..
Co-Owner and Creator of EVSCO |
Stig Sterling
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Posted - 2010.12.24 04:11:00 -
[10]
I dont know about ruining the game, but there are some real geeks out there that are obsessed with their stats.
And yeah, killmails suck.
Big time.
[orange]CCP REMOVE OP[/size=5]
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2010.12.24 04:12:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Karbowiak
If you cant handle it, go play WoW or Hello Kitty Online.EVE is a man's game, not a *****'s game..
Your so cool,can I be your friend?I wish I could post some original lines like you that people could care less about.Pleeeease add me to the buddy list so I can say I am friends with the guy pwns the forum
As for the op troll or not I agree.I agree no one gives a **** who's on the kill board,just means you find the lamest way to 1up your stats.Most likely camping a gate all day every day or ganking miners which is risky buisness when you think about how hard those mining lasers wreck
Take out killboards and you remove 50% of the lameness going on in eve.
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Zendoren
Aktaeon Industries
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Posted - 2010.12.24 04:13:00 -
[12]
Confirming Kill-boards are awful! Particularly IT's and Goon's Just terrible!
3/10 "Because you're worth it!"
P.S. Keep up the fine work roadkill and co. over at eve-id.net!!!!!
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Vapid Court
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Posted - 2010.12.24 04:18:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Zendoren
Confirming Kill-boards are awful! Particularly IT's and Goon's Just terrible!
3/10 "Because you're worth it!"
P.S. Keep up the fine work roadkill and co. over at eve-id.net!!!!!
Confirming you are part of the problem
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Herping yourDerp
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Posted - 2010.12.24 04:30:00 -
[14]
yes remove kill mails.
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Ronald Raygunn
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Posted - 2010.12.24 05:15:00 -
[15]
I agree with this to a certain point. The KBs are there for areason, to help track your progress in pvp. In this, I think it serves its purpose. But I think it also creates a wall for those who want to get into pvp as well. I've ran into this problem when trying to join some yarr corps, mainly because I didn't have alot of kills vs my losses. KBs can work against you in these situations, because they are so important to those corps that they take precendence over teaching players how to pew and have fun doing it. After a couple of weeks of this, I just decided to go mission run and do my own thing. It's pretty frustrating to say the least.
I'd wager that the game might have more pew if corps would put KBs on the back burner and take players under their wings and show them the best ways to pew and to just have a good time doing it. If you can't have that, then there is no real point to it anymore.
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Kolatha
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Posted - 2010.12.24 05:18:00 -
[16]
The problem isn't really the kill-mail or kill-boards. It's a useful metric to determine combat performance and a useful intel tool during war. Unfortunately there are far too many people out there that treat their KB stats as the be-all and end-all of the game, and are unwilling to look to anything beyond boosting their pvp rank.
I have seen a number of corps and at least one alliance tear itself to pieces because they chose to use KB stats as their primary measure for corporate contribution and, worse still, as the primary method for determining who gets the promotions and access to vital corporate assets.
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Space Pinata
Amarr
Discount Napkin Industries
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Posted - 2010.12.24 05:24:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Karbowiak
You should visit eve-kill some more..
Hell, i even added snow to the board!
And as for killmails ruining your game, htfu ***get.
If you cant handle it, go play WoW or Hello Kitty Online.
EVE is a man's game, not a *****'s game..
[orange]u mad[/size=5]
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Aiwha
Caldari
101st Space Marine Force
Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2010.12.24 06:29:00 -
[18]
My KB stats are better than yours.
Look at who just told you that, and think about what this means.
Gullible
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Vapid Court
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Posted - 2010.12.24 06:46:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Aiwha
My KB stats are better than yours.
Look at who just told you that, and think about what this means.
I have no idea who you are and I'm not looking up
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Obsidian Hawk
RONA Legion
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Posted - 2010.12.24 07:05:00 -
[20]
[orange] LOOK I JUST MADE A NEW EVE FORUM MEME! [/size=5]
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0oO0oOoOo0o
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Posted - 2010.12.24 07:18:00 -
[21]
Op probably has very bad KB stats...
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Portmanteau
Fumar Puede Matar
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Posted - 2010.12.24 07:21:00 -
[22]
agree that KMs should go ... shame this is most likely troll OP :/
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1ee7W4rr10z
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Posted - 2010.12.24 07:25:00 -
[23]
lol.. can't tell if this is serious but I do hate the same reasons about this game..
the only thing i can think of is killboards should remove ALL stats.
then you ahve nothing to get obssesed over, no loss/kill value, no numbers on kills/losses to date, no points per kill.
just the kills
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Fvr Pvpr
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Posted - 2010.12.24 07:55:00 -
[24]
wasn't really a troll if that means anything to anyone. Im sure the same thing that irks me about km's and kb's bother a lot of people. They are generally just a bad addition to the game. \
For instance.. instead of using the in-game browser to play around a bit and check this thread. I didn't bother logging into the game because I don't feel like farming km's which I would feel obligated to if I logged in.
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2010.12.24 07:59:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Professor Tarantula on 24/12/2010 08:04:55
The problem is, KMs are the only real reward of PvP in what is supposed to be a PvP centric game.
My main has zero kills and a bunch of amusing losses. KMs don't offer enough incentive for me to PvP. Was thinking for awhile about blowing up some peoples ships to try and make his record a bit more respectable, but decided it's kind of funny to just leave it like that.
If anyone is ever gunning for me again i'm just going to allow them to blow me up in a cheap frigate or something and send them on their way with a KM to hump. I'll even give it a preposterous fit just to get them all excited.
My Warmest Regards.
Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
Cupio Mortem
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Posted - 2010.12.24 08:03:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
The problem is, KMs are the only real reward of PvP in what is supposed to be a PvP centric game.
...wat?! If you view KM's as the only reward to PVP, you must really ****ing suck at PVP. And I mean REALLY. Because my reward usually comes in the form of cackling laughter followed by trying to rouse up some tears-filled-evemails from the loser.
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2010.12.24 08:08:00 -
[27]
Ya know, this discussion reminds me of the 'T2BPO turf-war'.
Or the 'implants on pod-killmail-turf-war'.
support
Public Idea Tracker | 24hr PLEX |
Triple Entendre
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Posted - 2010.12.24 08:10:00 -
[28]
I like killmails, personally.
I find lossmails much more amusing. They're a good metric to tell just how drunk I was when I lost that [whatever ship I seem to have misplaced].
[orange]CCP, REMOVE THESE AND I WILL HAVE NO WAY TO TRACK MY DRUNKEN ESCAPADES. DON'T DO THIS TO ME![/inevitably short lived trend]
Originally by: CCP Zulu
You're assuming I read threads before I turdpost in them :)
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Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2010.12.24 08:11:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Cupio Mortem
my reward usually comes in the form of cackling laughter followed by trying to rouse up some tears-filled-evemails from the loser.
I'm not sadistic, so that stuff doesn't amuse or satisfy me.
My Warmest Regards.
Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
Cupio Mortem
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Posted - 2010.12.24 08:11:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Originally by: Cupio Mortem
my reward usually comes in the form of cackling laughter followed by trying to rouse up some tears-filled-evemails from the loser.
I'm not sadistic, so that stuff doesn't amuse or satisfy me.
Laughter doesn't amuse you? Aren't we awesome.
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Baneken
Gallente
School of the Unseen
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Posted - 2010.12.24 08:13:00 -
[31]
Hey, is this the awesome saucesome whine thread ?
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2010.12.24 08:34:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Baneken
Hey, is this the awesome saucesome whine thread ?
That is a pretty awesome whine, but i doubt it'll catch on.
My Warmest Regards.
Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
Shootmenot dammit
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Posted - 2010.12.24 08:48:00 -
[33]
Without killmails I would not play this game.
It's always been said that PvP and its harsh consecuences were one of the main strong points of EvE.
Losing your ships and your stuff is not important. Practically anything is replaceable in this game. But killmails provide the ultimate punishment: a constant, permanent testimony of one's defeat or victory.
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RaTTuS
BIG
Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2010.12.24 08:49:00 -
[34]
there where killboards before the API
--
Join BIG
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Piercing Silence
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Posted - 2010.12.24 08:50:00 -
[35]
You could have incident reports or something similar which was touched on earlier in this thread.
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Portmanteau
Fumar Puede Matar
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Posted - 2010.12.24 08:51:00 -
[36]
Originally by: 1ee7W4rr10z
the only thing i can think of is killboards should remove ALL stats.
snip...
just the kills
er that would make blobbing and lame tactics even worse since NUMBER OF KILLS would be the only relevant figure at least now you can tell someone to STFU when they smack you about a KM with 20 / 1 odds on it. No just get rid of them
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Artemis Rose
Clandestine Vector
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Posted - 2010.12.24 08:51:00 -
[37]
Without killmails, how can you brag about fighting outnumbered and outgunned?
Might as well drop 10 things on everything scrap that floats in space, you won't be judged
***
Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space
Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2
WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats |
Piercing Silence
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Posted - 2010.12.24 08:53:00 -
[38]
Yes they just need to go somehow
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Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
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Posted - 2010.12.24 09:13:00 -
[39]
5/10
-
I'd tell you why but then I'll have to kill you. And to kill you I'd have to log in. And to log in I'd have to stop browsing these forums. Both you and me knows that'll never happen. |
NickyYo
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Posted - 2010.12.24 09:15:00 -
[40]
Great Troll post... some morons are actually faling for it.
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Muad 'dib
Caldari
The Imperial Fedaykin
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Posted - 2010.12.24 09:32:00 -
[41]
i miss the actual kill mail from concord (from which KM got its name)
It was nice getting a report from the police that you killed somones ship :¼D
Evidence of you killing somone is vital in eve, cos 90% of the players are evil lieing spying RR-ing ECM using nano abusing basterds.
Meep Meep!
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Geanos
Phoenix Tribe
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Posted - 2010.12.24 10:04:00 -
[42]
Too bad OP is a troll.
It would suffice to remove victim's name/corp/alliance from the KM to make most people more inclined to take risks and PVP more. You need the KM's for bragging, just remove the negative part from it.
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Cupio Mortem
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Posted - 2010.12.24 10:10:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Geanos
Too bad OP is a troll.
Why do people post **** like this when discussion is taking place regardless of that fact? You don't win points, especially when it's already been pointed out just a few posts back. F@660try, folks, breeds more f@660try, kind of like typing like that is in itself ***gotry and why I didn't threepeat it just now...please, do your part today and pod this asshat. Then just go ahead and get me too, then each other, because we've all been infected. Thanks, ****.
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Geanos
Phoenix Tribe
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Posted - 2010.12.24 10:28:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Cupio Mortem
Originally by: Geanos
Too bad OP is a troll.
Why do people post **** like this when discussion is taking place regardless of that fact? You don't win points, especially when it's already been pointed out just a few posts back. F@660try, folks, breeds more f@660try, kind of like typing like that is in itself ***gotry and why I didn't threepeat it just now...please, do your part today and pod this asshat. Then just go ahead and get me too, then each other, because we've all been infected. Thanks, ****.
You got me! 
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ZenSun
Total Mayhem.
Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2010.12.24 10:30:00 -
[45]
Badideabro
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Snowmann
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Posted - 2010.12.24 10:35:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Snowmann on 24/12/2010 10:35:38
Killmails must be removed to help fight lag.
Just think of how much less lag there would be without them. Even if it's just a bit.
I now suspect this may be done as a hotpatch the first Tuesday after New Years, Soon(tm).
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Jennifer Starling
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.12.24 11:03:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 24/12/2010 11:03:43
Well someone should make a proposal in the Assembly Hall.
The question is what we want:
1) remove the killmails alltogether
2) just remove them from the api so people can't prove what's on their killboard;
3) just remove lossmails so you only have a number of kills, not losses, on your killboard - so people have no idea how much ships you lost;
4) ... anyone?
Personally I'd opt for option 3). I do agree with the OP that we must get rid of the silly KB farmers. I know there's a lot of you who couldn't care less but too much descisions are made with the (potential loss of) KB stats in mind. Too much people don't engage challenging fights because it will hurt their KB stats. It hurts the fun in PvP.
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Vapid Court
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Posted - 2010.12.24 11:09:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Vapid Court on 24/12/2010 11:09:56
Originally by: Jennifer Starling
Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 24/12/2010 11:03:43
Well someone should make a proposal in the Assembly Hall.
The question is what we want:
1) remove the killmails alltogether
2) just remove them from the api so people can't prove what's on their killboard;
3) just remove lossmails so you only have a number of kills, not losses, on your killboard - so people have no idea how much ships you lost;
4) ... anyone?
Personally I'd opt for option 3). I do agree with the OP that we must get rid of the silly KB farmers. I know there's a lot of you who couldn't care less but too much descisions are made with the (potential loss of) KB stats in mind. Too much people don't engage challenging fights because it will hurt their KB stats. It hurts the fun in PvP.
*applauds*
This would also increase the chances of someone going out one night or one day and 1v2 ing or if only just 1v1 ing in their best ships instead of always going with the cheapest one they can geet away withhave the potential to not go there way.
Let's face it. KBs are not a part of space and km's wouldn't exist. I don't think they should in EVE there is no good reason they should only very strong reasons why they shouldn't and why they are bad.
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Siouxsie B
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Posted - 2010.12.24 11:16:00 -
[49]
CCP REMOVE KILL MAILS
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heheheh
Phoenix Club
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Posted - 2010.12.24 11:31:00 -
[50]
I say keep the killboards, i never use them much myself, but some sad acts really do need some way of getting off.
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Mr Dilkington
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Posted - 2010.12.24 11:51:00 -
[51]
Originally by: heheheh
I say keep the killboards, i never use them much myself, but some sad acts really do need some way of getting off.
I wouldnt use them either if i lost as many ships as you.
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heheheh
Phoenix Club
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Posted - 2010.12.24 11:59:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Mr Dilkington
Originally by: heheheh
I say keep the killboards, i never use them much myself, but some sad acts really do need some way of getting off.
I wouldnt use them either if i lost as many ships as you.
*changes POS password*
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1600 RT
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Posted - 2010.12.24 12:32:00 -
[53]
100% agree remove kilmails
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Antihrist Pripravnik
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.12.24 12:56:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Antihrist Pripravnik on 24/12/2010 12:57:30
Sure, I'll bite 
Originally by: Fvr Pvpr
Than a fat kid playing soccer. You just ruin every game your in especially eve. I'm in a pvp corp. We get tons of kills you think that would be fun right NO its NOT because everyone is obsessed with their KB and their stats. The ISK the DAMAGE the K:L ration blahblahblah jesus christ. Everything is about this.
Nope, it's not. If you happen to like the solo or small gang PvP (yep... a NC member who likes this... go figure  ), you'll see that killboards are useful for analysing fleet setups and past battles. As basketball coaches spend hours looking at the statistics and previous games to see the strengths and weaknesses of their own and the opposite team, you can look at the killboard and battle statistics in EVE to see what ship(s) and when you can engage and what tactics should you use.
The only problem with killmails is that they are not accurate enough.
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Space Pinata
Amarr
Discount Napkin Industries
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Posted - 2010.12.24 13:01:00 -
[55]
[orange]one time i got a killmail lol it said a ship blew up
but if not for killmail why would a ship blow up? lol you people dont think!
i think killmails are fine because otherwise how will i inflate my pride lol [/size=5]
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MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.12.24 13:08:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Cupio Mortem
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Originally by: Cupio Mortem
my reward usually comes in the form of cackling laughter followed by trying to rouse up some tears-filled-evemails from the loser.
I'm not sadistic, so that stuff doesn't amuse or satisfy me.
Laughter doesn't amuse you? Aren't we awesome.
You ain't too bright. Re-read his post again and see if you can figure it out this time.
Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today! |
Hooch Flux
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.12.24 13:12:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Hooch Flux on 24/12/2010 13:12:33
Nah, don't get rid of Killmails! Just change them so only the person who does the most damage shows...
The problem isn't really KM's, it's the attitude of the players. KM's are just information at the end of the day, it's what people do with it that is the issue...
I say prep for dustoff, nuke the site from orbit...
Only way to be sure! |
Jenn aSide
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Posted - 2010.12.24 13:13:00 -
[58]
I'm willing to bet that most of the "remove killboards" people are the ones who lost multi-billion isk ships to gankers while they were missioning lol.
Yes ccp, remove killmails, but don't stop there, buy up all the professional sports teams and eliminate score boards too!. Hell, eliminate scoring all together, someone might get embarrased if they actually lose to other people, omg the humanitiy, think of the children.
In my 4 years of playing what is touted as a pvp centric game, I've never understood why EVE doesn't have 1 central ccp operated totally neutral killboard that people can't dispute. Oh and the peoiple who want names removed from killmails should go play wow.
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Space Pinata
Amarr
Discount Napkin Industries
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Posted - 2010.12.24 13:18:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Space Pinata on 24/12/2010 13:19:00
Originally by: Jenn aSide
I'm willing to bet that most of the "remove killboards" people are the ones who lost multi-billion isk ships to gankers while they were missioning lol.
Yes ccp, remove killmails, but don't stop there, buy up all the professional sports teams and eliminate score boards too!. Hell, eliminate scoring all together, someone might get embarrased if they actually lose to other people, omg the humanitiy, think of the children.
In my 4 years of playing what is touted as a pvp centric game, I've never understood why EVE doesn't have 1 central ccp operated totally neutral killboard that people can't dispute. Oh and the peoiple who want names removed from killmails should go play wow.
Ah, one of you.
Protip: Insulting people all day won't change how they are. Whether or not you think people should be OK with lossmails doesn't change the fact that a lot of them aren't, and that a lot of them aren't PVPing because of it.
The question, then, is..
Do you want the game to be more fun, with more PVP? Or do you want to spite people you disagree with?
The difference between EVE and other the other games is that killmails('score') don't determine who wins.
Kinda like all the alliances that touted their K:D ratio against the old goonblob... and still lost their space to it, at the end of the day.
At least they felt good about their 'score' though.
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Antihrist Pripravnik
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.12.24 13:21:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Space Pinata
Whether or not you think people should be OK with lossmails doesn't change the fact that a lot of them aren't, and that a lot of them aren't PVPing because of it.
Ahhh... finally... so the actual problem are LOSSMAILS not KILLMAILS
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Karbowiak
Caldari
Bad Company DBD
DEM0N HUNTERS
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Posted - 2010.12.24 13:22:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Space Pinata
Originally by: Karbowiak
You should visit eve-kill some more..
Hell, i even added snow to the board!
And as for killmails ruining your game, htfu ***get.
If you cant handle it, go play WoW or Hello Kitty Online.
EVE is a man's game, not a *****'s game..
u mad
im very mad..
Esp. cause noone has said anything about the snow on eve-kill :(
Co-Owner and Creator of EVSCO |
Space Pinata
Amarr
Discount Napkin Industries
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Posted - 2010.12.24 13:32:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Antihrist Pripravnik
Originally by: Space Pinata
Whether or not you think people should be OK with lossmails doesn't change the fact that a lot of them aren't, and that a lot of them aren't PVPing because of it.
Ahhh... finally... so the actual problem are LOSSMAILS not KILLMAILS
Both, actually. Lossmails prevent some people from PVPing.
Killmails make people do stupid ****. Like refusing to hold the other side of the gate, and letting an enemy get away in hull, because they disobeyed orders and jumped through to try to ***** into the killmail at the last second. Lost an important kill to that.
Prolly wasting my breath on a troll without two brain cells to rub together, sadly.
Think of it this way:
There are a lot of people who honestly don't care about whether they win or lose. They just want to play.
There are a lot of people who also fap furiously at any win they get, and go off insulting whoever they beat. This is approximately all of them, as EVE is primarily populated by young males who feel the need to prove themselves in pixels.
See: Every thread in C&P. All of them. It's either terribly tears (followed by trolling the loser) or trolling the loser (followed by tears, or more trolling).
Basically, more people would PVP, and the ones who do PVP would PVP more, if there was less of a stigma against losing.
I'm sure someone will quote-mine this post and chestbeat, but it doesn't change that I'm right.
Think of it this way: You're really good at, idk, hockey. You usually win. Every time you win, you make fun of the other team relentlessly.
Some of them give up, some don't. A lot never try because the environment is hostile, as opposed to a friendly competition. (Friendly =/= fair)
...Then, suddenly, no one plays anymore! When they do, they only do so because they know they can win. Sound familiar?
Because that's EVE in a nutshell.
|
Hooch Flux
Caldari
|
Posted - 2010.12.24 13:36:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Space Pinata
There are a lot of people who honestly don't care about whether they win or lose. They just want to play.
All that needs to be said really...
Two thumbs up!
I say prep for dustoff, nuke the site from orbit...
Only way to be sure! |
011010100110111101100101
|
Posted - 2010.12.24 13:38:00 -
[64]
Edited by: 011010100110111101100101 on 24/12/2010 13:38:16
Originally by: Jenn aSide
stupid things
Like someone already pointed out you're an idiot for thinking K:L ratio determines who wins. It shows that you don't understand eve at all. It looks like you more of a 14yr old call of duty guy. Thats ok, FPS are popular for a reason. But eve isn't one. In no way do killmails equal score for determining a winner.
It's this kind of mentality that ruins eve pvp and brings about many of the problems made possible by killmails.
|
Tornan
Minmatar
Oberon Incorporated
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2010.12.24 14:12:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Fvr Pvpr
Than a fat kid playing soccer. You just ruin every game your in especially eve. I'm in a pvp corp. We get tons of kills you think that would be fun right NO its NOT because everyone is obsessed with their KB and their stats. The ISK the DAMAGE the K:L ration blahblahblah jesus christ. Everything is about this. People use like 3 diferent kbs.... wth. It made me start looking at mine I only have 1 loss and hundreds of kills. lol... now I am obsessed with it to. I cant enjoy killing **** because its all about the kb. You people are obsessed with it and I can't play the game and me involved in 99% of the conversations without hearing about it.
This applies to almost every corp in the game that does PVP. It's just not fun anymore... everyone is obessed with this.
[orange] CCP REMOVE KILL MAILS [/size=5]
You know how I said I am one of you now? A killmail *****? How I hate this game because of it... well **** you for that. I hate this ****. You know I rare;y ever look at your killboards ever. I don't care about them. I don't care at all do you guys actually think anyone cares about any other killboard besides their own? No one goes around autopiloting looking up peoples kbs and saying oo that dude is great. lol... They probably don't even if your their enemy. Just god wtf I want to buy battle clinic and take it down but then you ***gots would just use other ones... jesus. This is awful.
you do realize that ranting about this proves you actualy care about it
|
Merdaneth
Amarr
Angel Wing.
|
Posted - 2010.12.24 14:13:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Hooch Flux
The problem isn't really KM's, it's the attitude of the players. KM's are just information at the end of the day, it's what people do with it that is the issue...
Smart people choose the way of the least resistance. What do you think is easier to change, KM's or the attitude of the players?
If people only changed their attitude towards driving, we wouldn't need seatbelts and other safety measures....
____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Hooch Flux
Caldari
|
Posted - 2010.12.24 14:18:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Merdaneth
Originally by: Hooch Flux
The problem isn't really KM's, it's the attitude of the players. KM's are just information at the end of the day, it's what people do with it that is the issue...
Smart people choose the way of the least resistance. What do you think is easier to change, KM's or the attitude of the players?
If people only changed their attitude towards driving, we wouldn't need seatbelts and other safety measures....
Totally agree, people will go for the low hanging fruit. Not sure though if easier always equals smarter. Especially if it doesn't actually address the problem and only treats a symptom...
I do see where you are coming from though!
I say prep for dustoff, nuke the site from orbit...
Only way to be sure! |
Shiptoaster
|
Posted - 2010.12.24 14:26:00 -
[68]
For all the people saying it's for intel.. lol. How about asking people what happened or checking logs and piecing it together and making a note of it. That, would be intel. What you're saying you need is an I'm stupid report. Tell me everything on 1 page regardless of how it ruins the game in dozens of ways cheat sheet
|
Ghoest
|
Posted - 2010.12.24 14:34:00 -
[69]
kill boards area joke
Im not sure people get angry about them although I can definitely see why people would get upset if their corp is stupid enough to care about kill boards.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
|
Posted - 2010.12.24 14:45:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Cupio Mortem
Laughter doesn't amuse you? Aren't we awesome.
[orange]ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?![/size=5]
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Jennifer Starling
Amarr
|
Posted - 2010.12.24 15:57:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Cupio Mortem
Laughter doesn't amuse you? Aren't we awesome.
[orange]ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?![/size=5]
One could intepret that as as an indirect call for arenas you know
|
Jenn aSide
|
Posted - 2010.12.24 16:07:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Jenn aSide on 24/12/2010 16:08:20
Originally by: Space Pinata
Ah, one of you.
Protip: Insulting people all day won't change how they are. Whether or not you think people should be OK with lossmails doesn't change the fact that a lot of them aren't, and that a lot of them aren't PVPing because of it.
The question, then, is..
Do you want the game to be more fun, with more PVP? Or do you want to spite people you disagree with?
So somehow eliminating a record of kills and losses will encourage more people to pvp? As there are enough people pvping in my neck of the woods I don't care about that, even if its true.
If some people aren't pvping because they are scared their fictional spaceship captain's name will appear in a negative light on an internet killboard, they simply don't have the heart to pvp in EVE in the 1st place and eve pvp is better without them. EVE is harsh, public humiliation is a part of that harshness. As I like harsh, I like KMs lol.
|
Jovan Geldon
Gallente
Lead Farmers
Kill It With Fire
|
Posted - 2010.12.24 16:09:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Cupio Mortem
Laughter doesn't amuse you? Aren't we awesome.
[orange]ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?![/size=5]
Killboards put the laughter into manslaughter. Not supported.
|
Jenn aSide
|
Posted - 2010.12.24 16:18:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Space Pinata
Basically, more people would PVP, and the ones who do PVP would PVP more, if there was less of a stigma against losing.
The "stigma against losing" along with EVE's incredibly harsh death penalty is the best parts of eve pvp. I find it amazing that people actually and truthfully want to neuter aspects of the game to make themselves more comfortable in the game.
IMO Kill/loss mails along with truly losing stuff (something that doesn't really happen in many mmos) provide an incentive against reckless stupidity, and THAT imo makes for better (if not "more" pvp.
|
Joe Phoenix
|
Posted - 2010.12.24 16:21:00 -
[75]
Good post, my KB sucks, do i care? do i ****.
|
Sraik Doubter
PWNED THEORY
|
Posted - 2010.12.24 17:05:00 -
[76]
I liked the snow. But it sort of freaked me out at first...thought it was bugs.
|
Nikita Alterana
Risen Angels
|
Posted - 2010.12.24 17:18:00 -
[77]
[orange] AM I DOING IT RIGHT? [/size=5]
Crazy doesn't even start to cover it |
Aeronwen Carys
|
Posted - 2010.12.24 17:29:00 -
[78]
This thread has got to be full of some of the most idiotic replies I have ever seen. I'm wondering how many of you are actaully capable of rational thought.
If lossmails are preventing people from playing EVE then lets be honest, we aren't going to miss those people are we? I say they should all quit and take up needlepoint or knitting.
The same applies equally to those whose only reason for playing is to get killmails. Now I'm not including the tear farmers in there, the ones who seek some sort of emotional outburst to accompany that killmail, but the ones who are only interested in numbers on a screen and rankings on some obscure killboard.
EVE is supposed to be about the players. About the interaction between one player and another, not about who has destroyed what. So to all the lossmail chickens and the killmail hoarders I say this, get the hell out of EVE. Lossmail weenies, go learn to knit, killmail hoarders, go play Call of Duty. Then maybe the rest of us can continue enjoying this game.
|
Guttripper
Caldari
State War Academy
|
Posted - 2010.12.24 17:31:00 -
[79]
Edited by: Guttripper on 24/12/2010 17:33:36
Kill boards are like online **** - without it, people would not know what to do with themselves...
Edit: Interesting that pictures of naked humans gets asterisked out. ("Think of the children!")
|
ifollowed through
|
Posted - 2010.12.24 18:24:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Jovan Geldon
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Cupio Mortem
Laughter doesn't amuse you? Aren't we awesome.
[orange]ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?![/size=5]
Killboards put the laughter into manslaughter. Not supported.
That would LSD and fast cars actually
|
Br41n
Amarr
Ministry of War
|
Posted - 2010.12.24 18:39:00 -
[81]
[orange]SO WHATS HAPPENING IN HERE?[/size=5]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Pinky: Gee, Brain. What are we going to do tonight?
Brain: The same thing we do every night, Pinky. Try to take over the world.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
Desigre
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2010.12.24 18:52:00 -
[82]
well im sure ccp could come up some sort of ranking system. you get awarded points on kills based on several factors: Ships involved (10v1 would not award any points), ship sizes (titan onshotting ecm frigate would give no points) and relative difference or charachter ages (new one kill old, gets tons of points)...
|
Aloe Cloveris
The Greater Goon
|
Posted - 2010.12.24 18:53:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Karbowiak
Esp. cause noone has said anything about the snow on eve-kill :(
I think the snowflakes are a really nice touch, Karbowiak :3
|
Roosterton
Internet Submarine Raiders
|
Posted - 2010.12.24 19:04:00 -
[84]
Edited by: Roosterton on 24/12/2010 19:04:27
I like killmails. Seeing who strongly cares about them shows who's an e-peen waving asshat who should be avoided. If a corp has membership restrictions based on killboard stats, then I'm not joining you, even if I meet those restrictions.
(Yeah, right  )
--------
Enemy corps raided into disbandment: Three.
Originally by: Tarminic
OH MY GOD WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?! |
Karbowiak
Caldari
Bad Company DBD
DEM0N HUNTERS
|
Posted - 2010.12.24 19:34:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Aloe Cloveris
Originally by: Karbowiak
Esp. cause noone has said anything about the snow on eve-kill :(
I think the snowflakes are a really nice touch, Karbowiak :3
<3
Co-Owner and Creator of EVSCO |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Sigma Special Tactics Group
Fleet Coordination Coalition
|
Posted - 2010.12.24 19:39:00 -
[86]
I still think "Incident Reports" to replace kill/loss mails would work better because it's a double-edged sword and can cut both ways.
Would someone who ranks their prowess on kill mails be so bold if they had an equal number of reports indicating those targets that got away or managed to stand long enough to self destruct?
How about those PVPers who are new to the game and never score a kill, but have participated in them? Kill mails do have "involved parties" listed of course but I want to see how they measure up in the group when they don't win - this is an avenue, or a record, for the lesser skilled to show their history in PVP. A resume of sorts.
Not all PVP is getting the kill either. A blockade running pilot could well benefit from reports indicating being fired upon and by who (more on that) but showing no ship loss in the report, and further information on the damage taken before escape.
And such reports would also show who attacked, and failed, which is more accurate for mercenary roles.
Just having a kill mail shows the kills, but what is the ratio? There is no "didn't win" mail. Incident reports would help that. Just having a loss mail is equally shortcoming, for how many times do you get popped versus how many times you ran the blockade or onslaughts you withstood?
Incident reports should also show ransoms and whether or not further hostilities occurred in the involved parties within 15 minutes of that ransom.
So I am just saying, Incident Reports would show a more accurate record of a pilots performance for their chosen role. Kill mails are just for people looking for kills. Loss mails are for those who have to go shopping for a new ship. Recording of overall success or fail outside of just "killed or not killed" or "you killed them or failed at killing them" and ransoms will let pilots show their success along the profiles of how they fly, and even let CEOs make better choices in who they recruit (a "real" pirate corp the makes its income on ransoms and depends on a reputation of honoring them would not, for example, want to recruit someone who has a penchant for not honoring ransoms).
|
Killstealing
|
Posted - 2010.12.24 21:02:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Originally by: Cupio Mortem
my reward usually comes in the form of cackling laughter followed by trying to rouse up some tears-filled-evemails from the loser.
I'm not sadistic, so that stuff doesn't amuse or satisfy me.
only ******s (and I use that in the most literal meaning) are incapable of schadenfreude.
|
Ben Derindar
Dirty Deeds Corp.
|
Posted - 2010.12.24 21:24:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Frug
Too bad there's no better alternative. A record of combat performance isn't all bad. We need something. Some heads to hang above our fireplace.
You mean like the ones on corpses?
|
AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
|
Posted - 2010.12.24 21:26:00 -
[89]
I like killboards. I wish they'd exclude non-piloted ships (or at least ships that had been empty for at least half an hour prior to destruction) and POS structures (or move POS structures to their own separate section.) It would also be nice if they were zero sum and had a more rational/accurate scoring mechanism. Obviously they'll never be perfect (logistics/ecm will get shortchanged) but they could be a lot better.
|
Drykor
Minmatar
Aperture Harmonics
K162
|
Posted - 2010.12.24 21:51:00 -
[90]
[orange] Even though I kinda agree with you, this thread is now about this new meme [/size=5]
|
Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
|
Posted - 2010.12.24 21:54:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Killstealing
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Originally by: Cupio Mortem
my reward usually comes in the form of cackling laughter followed by trying to rouse up some tears-filled-evemails from the loser.
I'm not sadistic, so that stuff doesn't amuse or satisfy me.
only ******s (and I use that in the most literal meaning) are incapable of schadenfreude.
I'll laugh if i see someone get sent on their ass by slipping on ice or something, but if i see someone tripping people and laughing at them, then harassing and mocking them trying to get a reaction, that person is clearly ****ed in the head.
My Warmest Regards.
Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
Messoroz
The Scope
|
Posted - 2010.12.24 22:37:00 -
[92]
Without killmails, how would I prove I took down a 4 man gang in a battle orca? Or ganked a t3 armor tanked tengu in wh space using a moa?
|
Demolishar
|
Posted - 2010.12.24 23:17:00 -
[93]
Killboards are integral to EVE gameplay. Removing them is unthinkable.
|
Space Pinata
Amarr
Discount Napkin Industries
|
Posted - 2010.12.24 23:46:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Messoroz
Without killmails, how would I prove I took down a 4 man gang in a battle orca? Or ganked a t3 armor tanked tengu in wh space using a moa?
[orange]lol what you do is use a fraps thingy and loadup it to the youtubes
silly boy[/size=5] |
Sky Marshal
IMpAct Corp
Not Found.
|
Posted - 2010.12.24 23:50:00 -
[95]
Edited by: Sky Marshal on 24/12/2010 23:55:43
Removing them, I hope for it. Barring that, it is possible to modify them.
Because whatever the OP is trolling or not, he is right.
Killboards have an impact on your playstyle. The reality, is that even if you don't care of your stats, others players will care of yours. So you can't do whatever you want so can't have fun easily, as you have to work efficiently to avoid any problems from other players. Of course, many PVP players can say that it is easy to forget their judgement or to change corp, but as long as you can't control the diffusion of your kills/losses, you can't avoid every possible case.
After all, elitists and e-peeners banned to everyone the capacity to control their personal stats, by syndication, and CCP after that by the API.
But a loss is a loss, whatever the size of the ship or the importance of the ship, and people hate lose and hate loosers. So Killboards are an annoyance as they encourage the fear of lose, this by keeping an history that WE CAN'T CONTROL.
L4 missions are not the only factor who explains why the majority of EVE players stay in Empire.
At least, the first thing who can be done, is to remove the name of the destroyed player in all future lossmails. This way, we make the loss only a Corp/Alliance general problem, but depending of their victories, this can be controlled. We keep the intel function of the KBs but reduce partially the annoyance of them.
Signature removed for not being EVE related. Zymurgist |
Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
|
Posted - 2010.12.24 23:57:00 -
[96]
I don't care if I win or lose, as long as everyone's a good sport. But, many of my corpmates sure do. As do our enemies. As do our allies. So, I have to start playing conservative, i.e., play in a less fun way.
But on the flipside, killmails is all that a lot of people play for. If they were removed, then what's to come of all those players? Just because I disagree with a playstyle doesn't mean its practitioners are somehow in the wrong.
I'd be happy if CCP just eliminated killmails entirely. But, then I'd expect bunch of ragequits. Granted, ragequits by people I by and large can't stand, but still, that's bad for CCP.
|
Ryhss
Caldari
42nd Airborn
|
Posted - 2010.12.25 00:13:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Fvr Pvpr
Than a fat kid playing soccer. You just ruin every game your in especially eve. I'm in a pvp corp. We get tons of kills you think that would be fun right NO its NOT because everyone is obsessed with their KB and their stats. The ISK the DAMAGE the K:L ration blahblahblah jesus christ. Everything is about this. People use like 3 diferent kbs.... wth. It made me start looking at mine I only have 1 loss and hundreds of kills. lol... now I am obsessed with it to. I cant enjoy killing **** because its all about the kb. You people are obsessed with it and I can't play the game and me involved in 99% of the conversations without hearing about it.
This applies to almost every corp in the game that does PVP. It's just not fun anymore... everyone is obessed with this.
[orange] CCP REMOVE KILL MAILS [/size=5]
You know how I said I am one of you now? A killmail *****? How I hate this game because of it... well **** you for that. I hate this ****. You know I rare;y ever look at your killboards ever. I don't care about them. I don't care at all do you guys actually think anyone cares about any other killboard besides their own? No one goes around autopiloting looking up peoples kbs and saying oo that dude is great. lol... They probably don't even if your their enemy. Just god wtf I want to buy battle clinic and take it down but then you ***gots would just use other ones... jesus. This is awful.
/Signed.
|
Atrei Capital
|
Posted - 2010.12.25 00:17:00 -
[98]
It's really hard to say.
Removing killmails is a bit drastic. Making losses and kills anonymous makes them harder to confirm (though, API verification..)
I can't say I'd lose any sleep over it, though.
Despite having decent killboard stats (93%~ efficiency), I still can't just roll out and take big risks.
I've been in corps where they told you it's better to lose 10 possible kills than to take a lossmail. Efficiency whoring.
The simple fact is, losing a ship is not that big of a deal, unless you're really bad at making ISK. We blow it all out of proportion, though..
For most people with some actual ISK to play with, the big drawback is the lack of sportsmanship, rather than the fear of loss.
Iunno. Maybe it's changed, but nullsec battles tended to end with a 'gf' all around. If there was a thread about it, both sides were pretty friendly. Maybe that's changed. Maybe the whole game has changed.
Most highsec/lowsec corps seem to be obsessed with these fictional 'tears' though, and if they can't get them, they'll just pretend they happened.
Long story short? "Harsh Game" =/= "be a **** to everyone you fight". It's all the equivalent of being that little teenager who screams obscenities into an xbox live microphone because he totally got a kill.
I've never understood why everyone has this foaming hatred of everyone else in this game. You don't all chestbeat and call people '******s' in person, do you? |
Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
|
Posted - 2010.12.25 00:43:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Atrei Capital
Most highsec/lowsec corps seem to be obsessed with these fictional 'tears' though, and if they can't get them, they'll just pretend they happened.
Absolutely.
The base problem is that EVE is full of a lot of really poor sports, but that's not going to change. This is a competitive venture (i.e. sport) for a lot of guys who by and large never played real life sports, and consequently never learned teamanship. Add on a layer of internet anonymity, and there's really no limit to the bleating of beards and the beating on floppy chests.
|
Guttripper
Caldari
State War Academy
|
Posted - 2010.12.25 01:31:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Emperor Cheney
Originally by: Atrei Capital
Most highsec/lowsec corps seem to be obsessed with these fictional 'tears' though, and if they can't get them, they'll just pretend they happened.
Absolutely.
The base problem is that EVE is full of a lot of really poor sports, but that's not going to change. This is a competitive venture (i.e. sport) for a lot of guys who by and large never played real life sports, and consequently never learned teamanship. Add on a layer of internet anonymity, and there's really no limit to the bleating of beards and the beating on floppy chests.
I agree with the good Emperor here 110%.
|
Infinity Ziona
Minmatar
Cloakers
|
Posted - 2010.12.25 01:59:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Fvr Pvpr
Than a fat kid playing soccer. You just ruin every game your in especially eve. I'm in a pvp corp. We get tons of kills you think that would be fun right NO its NOT because everyone is obsessed with their KB and their stats. The ISK the DAMAGE the K:L ration blahblahblah jesus christ. Everything is about this. People use like 3 diferent kbs.... wth. It made me start looking at mine I only have 1 loss and hundreds of kills. lol... now I am obsessed with it to. I cant enjoy killing **** because its all about the kb. You people are obsessed with it and I can't play the game and me involved in 99% of the conversations without hearing about it.
This applies to almost every corp in the game that does PVP. It's just not fun anymore... everyone is obessed with this.
[orange] CCP REMOVE KILL MAILS [/size=5]
You know how I said I am one of you now? A killmail *****? How I hate this game because of it... well **** you for that. I hate this ****. You know I rare;y ever look at your killboards ever. I don't care about them. I don't care at all do you guys actually think anyone cares about any other killboard besides their own? No one goes around autopiloting looking up peoples kbs and saying oo that dude is great. lol... They probably don't even if your their enemy. Just god wtf I want to buy battle clinic and take it down but then you ***gots would just use other ones... jesus. This is awful.
Killboards serve one purpose. To provide intel to your enemies on ships you fly, fittings and locations you frequent.
Agreed, I don't go looking up peoples killmails to be awed by their kills. I look them up for fits (if they have good solo stats), intel or to laugh at them on forums for being blob*****s and pretending they have any skill.
The only stats that matter on a personal killboard are personal solo kills and small gang kills. Since solo / small gang is 100% your effort and your not riding the coattails of 100's of other people you gang with. I'm sure I could get an awesome kill/death ratio with a newbie ship if I followed a blob around all day.
---------------------------------------------
Hate Bots / RMT? Do something worthwhile and good for EvE and cause tears and anguish for others, while doing absolutely nothing yourself! Join up. |
Selinate
Amarr
Wardens of the Void
|
Posted - 2010.12.25 03:09:00 -
[102]
I assume this is similar to Gear Score in WoW in it's effects on the game.
"What? You don't have a GS of 8k? You can't go on this raid with us!!!"
"Then how the hell am I going to get the gear that gives me a higher GS if I can't go on this raid?"
"Who the hell cares, that's your problem, BYE HAVE FUN!"
|
Joe Phoenix
|
Posted - 2010.12.25 03:19:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Selinate
I assume this is similar to Gear Score in WoW in it's effects on the game.
"What? You don't have a GS of 8k? You can't go on this raid with us!!!"
"Then how the hell am I going to get the gear that gives me a higher GS if I can't go on this raid?"
"Who the hell cares, that's your problem, BYE HAVE FUN!"
I have no idea what you are talking about but it sounds really sad.
|
Space Pinata
Amarr
Discount Napkin Industries
|
Posted - 2010.12.25 03:23:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Selinate
I assume this is similar to Gear Score in WoW in it's effects on the game.
"What? You don't have a GS of 8k? You can't go on this raid with us!!!"
"Then how the hell am I going to get the gear that gives me a higher GS if I can't go on this raid?"
"Who the hell cares, that's your problem, BYE HAVE FUN!"
Pretty much yeah.
Or yknow..
I used to hear people on vent begging for people to hurry up and post the killmails. Before the battle was even over. We're trying to scoop loot and scan down runners and they're already alt-tabbing to fap to killmails. |
Musashi IV
|
Posted - 2010.12.25 06:58:00 -
[105]
Someone needs a hug!
|
Razor Blue
Hyvat Pahat ja Eric
The Polaris Syndicate
|
Posted - 2010.12.25 09:22:00 -
[106]
I somewhat agree. Killmails are what are really breaking the low sec. They should get small nerf.
Killmails showing only ship type, corp and alliance would be enough. Maybe add option for players to turn on/off their name and module losses?
|
Lillith Starfire
|
Posted - 2010.12.25 09:38:00 -
[107]
Killmails. Because, in Eve, even sneezing at the other guy counts as a kill.
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Telvani
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Posted - 2010.12.25 09:49:00 -
[108]
[orange] it's a templar, an amarr fighter used by carrier[/size=5]
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Typhis Deterious
Firebird Squadron
Terra-Incognita
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Posted - 2010.12.25 10:07:00 -
[109]
Originally by: 0oO0oOoOo0o
Op probably has very bad KB stats...
Agreed. I would very much like a link to this hundreds of kills and only 1 loss stuffz.
________________________________
R.I.P Trinity Nova |
He Mad
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Posted - 2010.12.25 10:37:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Typhis Deterious
Originally by: 0oO0oOoOo0o
Op probably has very bad KB stats...
Agreed. I would very much like a link to this hundreds of kills and only 1 loss stuffz.
Of course you would
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He Mad
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Posted - 2010.12.25 10:46:00 -
[111]
Edited by: He Mad on 25/12/2010 10:46:59
Anyway. You could just take away killmails. The old ones would be meaningless. Because hey who know what happened after that vOv.
When I'm flying around in lowsec and I see a young aspiring priate/pvp whatever I always feels bad because hes going to be slaughtered and then never let into a good pvp corp because of his losses which he can not really control as he's not really equipped or knowledgeable yet.
I say trash them, they only bring really annoying adolencent personalities screaming to the forefront.
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Hooch Flux
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.12.25 11:39:00 -
[112]
Remove everyone from KM's except the one who does the most damage. Will get rid of useless KM *****'s and could even be a roundabout way of combating blobing!
I say prep for dustoff, nuke the site from orbit...
Only way to be sure! |
Drakarin
Gallente
Absentia Libertas Solus
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Posted - 2010.12.25 12:46:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Karbowiak
You should visit eve-kill some more..
Hell, i even added snow to the board!
And as for killmails ruining your game, htfu ***get.
If you cant handle it, go play WoW or Hello Kitty Online.
EVE is a man's game, not a *****'s game..
Explain to me how killmails (information overload) cause EvE to translate into a man's game? It makes the game predictable because no one wants to tarnish their record, it influences everybody's actions purely because of our human instincts. We want to win. Killmails take the fun out of this game and turn it into a job.
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Jordon Spikes
Gallente
Mineral Traders of Eve Korp LLC.
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Posted - 2010.12.25 13:00:00 -
[114]
I think you need to calm down and relax. now go kill someone.
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Drakarin
Gallente
Absentia Libertas Solus
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Posted - 2010.12.25 13:04:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Antihrist Pripravnik
Edited by: Antihrist Pripravnik on 24/12/2010 12:57:30
Sure, I'll bite
Originally by: Fvr Pvpr
Than a fat kid playing soccer. You just ruin every game your in especially eve. I'm in a pvp corp. We get tons of kills you think that would be fun right NO its NOT because everyone is obsessed with their KB and their stats. The ISK the DAMAGE the K:L ration blahblahblah jesus christ. Everything is about this.
Nope, it's not. If you happen to like the solo or small gang PvP (yep... a NC member who likes this... go figure ), you'll see that killboards are useful for analysing fleet setups and past battles. As basketball coaches spend hours looking at the statistics and previous games to see the strengths and weaknesses of their own and the opposite team, you can look at the killboard and battle statistics in EVE to see what ship(s) and when you can engage and what tactics should you use.
The only problem with killmails is that they are not accurate enough.
This is one of the most critical game breaking problems with the game, and you're suggesting to make it even worse? There is WAY too much information. Real life is primarily not fun just because of that. You can analyze and obtain information about anything if you want. The only difference is that in EvE, you don't even have to work for it. All the information you could ever possibly want is handed to you, so that a fight is not only predetermined, but everyone knows it before hand. This means there's always a hunter, and always a hunted, never a proper fight. This also applies to larger fleet battles, one can guess what the outcome of a fight would be so easily in this game just by knowing what the enemy(s) ship is and how old their character is.
Originally by: Artemis Rose
Without killmails, how can you brag about fighting outnumbered and outgunned?
Might as well drop 10 things on everything scrap that floats in space, you won't be judged
...
You are ridiculed for fighting solo, even if you win. The game does not encourage lone wolfs, nor do the players.
Originally by: Shootmenot dammit
Without killmails I would not play this game.
It's always been said that PvP and its harsh consecuences were one of the main strong points of EvE.
Losing your ships and your stuff is not important. Practically anything is replaceable in this game. But killmails provide the ultimate punishment: a constant, permanent testimony of one's defeat or victory.
Yes, and BECAUSE of this, EVERYONE gangs up and uses the cheapeast most treacherous tactics so the risk is minimal, and just farm up your killmail stats. No one wants to go out and have some fun in a fit that may or may not work. No one wants to roam around solo because gasp, they may just tarnish their mantle piece record.
It's pathetic, and completely ruins the PvP experience. You are right on one point though, ships, modules, anything you can lose is way too easy to regain. There has to be a penalty to death, and removing insurance would be a start towards that.
Originally by: Cupio Mortem
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
The problem is, KMs are the only real reward of PvP in what is supposed to be a PvP centric game.
...wat?! If you view KM's as the only reward to PVP, you must really ****ing suck at PVP. And I mean REALLY. Because my reward usually comes in the form of cackling laughter followed by trying to rouse up some tears-filled-evemails from the loser.
Excuse me if I'm not a ragging hillbilly savage that takes pleasure in the suffering of others. I PvP for fun, not to make people cry. Do you drink orphan tears for your morning beverage?
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kaselo
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Posted - 2010.12.25 13:23:00 -
[116]
Edited by: kaselo on 25/12/2010 13:24:01
Removing KM's would imo be a great way to boost solo pvp. People would be more likely to just go out there in their fancy ships and go blow stuff up or die trying. After all, whats to loose? only isk, and thats easily replaceable. As it stands at the moment, people just arent as likely to do that because as mentioned, alot of pvp corps use the record of your kills/losses when judging a potential recruit, which just encourages people to play it safe and take less risks aka blobbing.
Quote:
Yes, and BECAUSE of this, EVERYONE gangs up and uses the cheapeast most treacherous tactics so the risk is minimal, and just farm up your killmail stats. No one wants to go out and have some fun in a fit that may or may not work. No one wants to roam around solo because gasp, they may just tarnish their mantle piece record.
exactly :)
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Vapid Court
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Posted - 2010.12.25 13:57:00 -
[117]
Edited by: Vapid Court on 25/12/2010 13:57:41
This thread has been so accurate.
You know this is just an example. Around the learning skills changes. I had an alt that I was deciding what to do with. You know what? I didnt spend it to make my pvp better like with a prober or make him have his own career in militia or something like that.
You know why? I didn't want to bother with/ be concerned with/ deal with at all him on the billboards. So I made him a freighter pilot and sold him...
That's pretty sad. Take these things out of the game.
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Drakarin
Gallente
Absentia Libertas Solus
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Posted - 2010.12.25 14:12:00 -
[118]
While I personally praise those who go out and solo, and somehow come in first place, it is rare and for the most part the common soloer is not held in good light.
The solo type seems to be the shy teen at a party. Excluded, left out and laughed at when the opportunity is right.
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Barbelo Valentinian
Gallente
The Scope
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Posted - 2010.12.25 16:15:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Drakarin
No one wants to go out and have some fun in a fit that may or may not work. No one wants to roam around solo because gasp, they may just tarnish their mantle piece record.
Good point, but actually some of us do. I don't give a flying f**k about KB stats (as should be obvious from looking at mine). Mostly I'm a carebear, but very occasionally I go out looking for fights. I haven't "won" one yet, in the sense of destroyed a ship or podded someone, the most I've done is a few times get people down to hull and they warp off. Why? Because I never have point, I'd rather fit silly ECM things for fun and experimentation, because I simply don't care about the abstraction of "winning" in a videogame, I just like the occasional adrenaline jag for a bit of variety in my own little game of pretending to be a spaceship pilot.
How are people going to learn without losing a bit first? There's a saying in Chinese Kungfu "invest in loss". You learn a lot from losing. If people are afraid to lose and pick only easy fights, they remain sort of stunted in their experience, and stunted in the type of gameplay they will risk.
You couldn't afford to take that sort of risk too much irl, or at least you'd have to measure it carefully, because loss irl is real loss - but in a game? If your self-esteem is tied to whether you win or lose at internet spaceships, isn't there something a bit wonky going on? (I think this was the Goons' point wasn't it?)
Whether there are KBs or not, it's purely in players' minds and hands. I would never even consider joining a corp that cared about KB stats as obsessively as some here are describing (and that's fine, because a corp like that would never have me ).
Who cares? It's a frackin' videogame. Just fly about and have fun ffs.
*****
"To wake up is to wake the world up" - D.E. Harding |
Space Pinata
Amarr
Discount Napkin Industries
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Posted - 2010.12.25 16:25:00 -
[120]
Quote:
You couldn't afford to take that sort of risk too much irl, or at least you'd have to measure it carefully, because loss irl is real loss - but in a game? If your self-esteem is tied to whether you win or lose at internet spaceships, isn't there something a bit wonky going on? (I think this was the Goons' point wasn't it?)
Every PVP corp will check your stats.
"But I'd never join one who cared about..!"
Then you'd never join a PVP corp. It's really that simple.
If you run around not caring about killmails you'll end up solo or in one of those "NRDS But We Totally PVP (tm)" corps that failcascades when the first wardec comes through.
A lot of us don't -want- to care about killmails.
Think of it like being a professional artist. You'd love to experiment and try really difficult jobs you might fail, but you can't afford not to have an excellent track record, because then no one will hire you.
And, if you find being in a good pvp corp fun.. sadly, not much choice. |
Barbelo Valentinian
Gallente
The Scope
|
Posted - 2010.12.25 16:32:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Space Pinata
And, if you find being in a good pvp corp fun.. sadly, not much choice.
But if the type of gameplay that a "good" PvP corp indulges in is "safety first", is it even worth joining?
Isn't it just carebearing by another name?
*****
"To wake up is to wake the world up" - D.E. Harding |
UltraViolet A
The Scope
|
Posted - 2010.12.25 16:46:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Barbelo Valentinian
Originally by: Drakarin
No one wants to go out and have some fun in a fit that may or may not work. No one wants to roam around solo because gasp, they may just tarnish their mantle piece record.
Good point, but actually some of us do. I don't give a flying f**k about KB stats (as should be obvious from looking at mine). Mostly I'm a carebear, but very occasionally I go out looking for fights. I haven't "won" one yet, in the sense of destroyed a ship or podded someone, the most I've done is a few times get people down to hull and they warp off. Why? Because I never have point, I'd rather fit silly ECM things for fun and experimentation, because I simply don't care about the abstraction of "winning" in a videogame, I just like the occasional adrenaline jag for a bit of variety in my own little game of pretending to be a spaceship pilot.
How are people going to learn without losing a bit first? There's a saying in Chinese Kungfu "invest in loss". You learn a lot from losing. If people are afraid to lose and pick only easy fights, they remain sort of stunted in their experience, and stunted in the type of gameplay they will risk.
You couldn't afford to take that sort of risk too much irl, or at least you'd have to measure it carefully, because loss irl is real loss - but in a game? If your self-esteem is tied to whether you win or lose at internet spaceships, isn't there something a bit wonky going on? (I think this was the Goons' point wasn't it?)
Whether there are KBs or not, it's purely in players' minds and hands. I would never even consider joining a corp that cared about KB stats as obsessively as some here are describing (and that's fine, because a corp like that would never have me ).
Who cares? It's a frackin' videogame. Just fly about and have fun ffs.
This thread isn't about your personal experiences, play style, dreams or philosophy. It's about KBs and what they ARE causing in this game and why they should be removed.
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Vertisce Soritenshi
O.W.N. Corp
OWN Alliance
|
Posted - 2010.12.25 16:51:00 -
[123]
KB's should NOT be removed. They are simply a record of kills made by players. Just because people get competitive with them and the OP is unable to compete and win doesn't mean they need to be removed.
I enjoy PvP and still check the killboards to see my record and fits of enemies I have fought. If killboards are ruining the OP's fun then it is nobodies fault but his. No reason to take his inadequacies out on everybody else.
Sig.Learning skills vote. |
Space Pinata
Amarr
Discount Napkin Industries
|
Posted - 2010.12.25 19:01:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Barbelo Valentinian
Originally by: Space Pinata
And, if you find being in a good pvp corp fun.. sadly, not much choice.
But if the type of gameplay that a "good" PvP corp indulges in is "safety first", is it even worth joining?
Isn't it just carebearing by another name?
Kinda.
But it's still fun to PVP.
PVPers are no more or less risk-averse than carebears, we just like to shoot other players. No one takes pointless risks. Even real-world daredevils do it with a medical team and several backup plans. Everyone likes to chestbeat about how they take risks, though.
Quote:
KB's should NOT be removed. They are simply a record of kills made by players. Just because people get competitive with them and the OP is unable to compete and win doesn't mean they need to be removed. I enjoy PvP and still check the killboards to see my record and fits of enemies I have fought. If killboards are ruining the OP's fun then it is nobodies fault but his. No reason to take his inadequacies out on everybody else.
"They disagree with me. They must be bad at the game! Only someone bad at the game wouldn't feel the need to show everyone how super awesome they are at the game!"
FYI your killboard stats are godawful.
Biggest fallacy with killboards: 40 people kill a Battleship. All 40 people get credit for 100% of a battleship kill.
Two fleets can fight, 20v20, and each lose 10 guys.
And yet any individual can still be sporting a 10:1 or 10:0 kill:death ratio out of it.
That's all they are. No matter how terrible you are you can feel like you kill 5+ guys per death, because everyone gets a prize for firing one shot. |
Drakarin
Gallente
Absentia Libertas Solus
|
Posted - 2010.12.25 19:05:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Vertisce Soritenshi
KB's should NOT be removed. They are simply a record of kills made by players. Just because people get competitive with them and the OP is unable to compete and win doesn't mean they need to be removed.
I enjoy PvP and still check the killboards to see my record and fits of enemies I have fought. If killboards are ruining the OP's fun then it is nobodies fault but his. No reason to take his inadequacies out on everybody else.
The root problem is human nature. However, since I don't know of any effective way to change it, the next best thing is remove the catalyst that makes everyone act like stuck up pricks that not only like to cause pain, but don't even think of risking anything themselves, ever.
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Neesa Corrinne
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2010.12.25 19:28:00 -
[126]
Taking killmails out of EVE would be like deciding not to keep score during a chess tournament. Instead, lets just have a personality contest and the person we all like the best is the winner.
Luckily this idea is so bad it will never happen... and if it did happen, it would be EVE's NGE.
======================================
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Space Pinata
Amarr
Discount Napkin Industries
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Posted - 2010.12.25 19:38:00 -
[127]
Edited by: Space Pinata on 25/12/2010 19:40:43
Originally by: Neesa Corrinne
Taking killmails out of EVE would be like deciding not to keep score during a chess tournament. Instead, lets just have a personality contest and the person we all like the best is the winner.
Luckily this idea is so bad it will never happen... and if it did happen, it would be EVE's NGE.
lol
thats cute you think killmails are winning
at the end of the day man i turn in my killmails and it says "space pinata, you won EVE today"
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Barbelo Valentinian
Gallente
The Scope
|
Posted - 2010.12.25 19:57:00 -
[128]
Originally by: UltraViolet A
This thread isn't about your personal experiences, play style, dreams or philosophy. It's about KBs and what they ARE causing in this game and why they should be removed.
Quite, but what "KBs are doing to the game" depends on what playstyles, dreams and philosophies the players involved have - those are what give killboards whatever significance they have, and that will vary from person to person, from group to group.
Many people tend to assume that what they do in the game is what everyone does, how they think and react to aspect X of the game is how everyone thinks and reacts, but that isn't so - indeed it's part of the design of the game to appeal to many different types of play.
*****
"To wake up is to wake the world up" - D.E. Harding |
Neesa Corrinne
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
|
Posted - 2010.12.25 20:24:00 -
[129]
Originally by: Space Pinata
Edited by: Space Pinata on 25/12/2010 19:40:43
Originally by: Neesa Corrinne
Taking killmails out of EVE would be like deciding not to keep score during a chess tournament. Instead, lets just have a personality contest and the person we all like the best is the winner.
Luckily this idea is so bad it will never happen... and if it did happen, it would be EVE's NGE.
lol
thats cute you think killmails are winning
at the end of the day man i turn in my killmails and it says "space pinata, you won EVE today"
Yes, to me they are how I win EVE.
To you maybe filling a jet can with veldspar is winning. To someone else maybe building a dozen capital ships and selling them is winning.
We all have our own goals, and kill mails is how I keep track of how I win EVE.
Sandbox's R fun.
======================================
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He Mad
|
Posted - 2010.12.25 20:26:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Neesa Corrinne
Originally by: Space Pinata
Edited by: Space Pinata on 25/12/2010 19:40:43
Originally by: Neesa Corrinne
Taking killmails out of EVE would be like deciding not to keep score during a chess tournament. Instead, lets just have a personality contest and the person we all like the best is the winner.
Luckily this idea is so bad it will never happen... and if it did happen, it would be EVE's NGE.
lol
thats cute you think killmails are winning
at the end of the day man i turn in my killmails and it says "space pinata, you won EVE today"
Yes, to me they are how I win EVE.
To you maybe filling a jet can with veldspar is winning. To someone else maybe building a dozen capital ships and selling them is winning.
We all have our own goals, and kill mails is how I keep track of how I win EVE.
Sandbox's R fun.
It's been suggested in this thread before. Remove the victims name. I think it should go further than that. But it is up to debate.
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Wandom Wapist
|
Posted - 2010.12.25 20:51:00 -
[131]
Killmails make fat kids feel important, think of the fat kids! |
Merdaneth
Amarr
Angel Wing.
|
Posted - 2010.12.25 22:22:00 -
[132]
The funny (or sad) thing is that the existing killmail system is discouraging the creation of more killmails.
As one earlier poster said, if you just remove the identification on the loss side (only mention shiptype), people can still farm/tally/score kills without having to simultanously worry about avoiding losses.
____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Selinate
Amarr
Wardens of the Void
|
Posted - 2010.12.26 00:44:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Space Pinata
Pretty much yeah.
Or yknow..
I used to hear people on vent begging for people to hurry up and post the killmails. Before the battle was even over. We're trying to scoop loot and scan down runners and they're already alt-tabbing to fap to killmails.
If someone was doing that in my corp and I was running the corp, they'd get the boot. I have a personal 0 tolerance for ****heads like this.
Funny, now that I think about it, whenever I play any other MMORPG and get players like that in my group, I just kick them and then savor the tears afterwards.
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Chicken Blood
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Posted - 2010.12.26 01:07:00 -
[134]
Edited by: Chicken Blood on 26/12/2010 01:07:45
Like many other people said before, the Win/Win solution would be removing the victim's name from the kill mail:
1. People are still going to get their kill mail rewards;
2. It will encourage people to PVP more, because, let's face it, as social beings people do care about what others are saying and avoid the situations that would make them look bad. In today's EVE, with so many ways to get ISK, people care more about what the corp/alliance mates are saying and less or none about the ISK;
3. It will bring more money in CCP's coffers, because we all know that more PVP usually translates in more GTC sales.
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Diomedes Calypso
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Posted - 2010.12.26 01:23:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Frug
Great post. 9/10. Especially since all pvpers know there's a nugget of truth in it.
Too bad there's no better alternative. A record of combat performance isn't all bad. We need something. Some heads to hang above our fireplace.
+1
Lots of contrivances in the system and I don't think any-one thinks a completely raw number from the kill-board means everything in judging the quality of pilots. But the kb's do allow you to browse through them after the initial look at the figures of total kills losses etc (which could be all blob kills or ratio gained by only flying the cheapest of ships).
And truly, most games have some silly goal that make the game a game. You put out a net for each team and you say the goal is to put balls into the other teams nets.
Well the game here is to shoot at a ship thats going to go down with brownie points if its expensive... more or less. its a sandbox.. other people certainly look at different things and if I look and see a guy with a 67% sucess ratio has solo'd regularly against stronger or more numerous ships than he I'll concede his 67 is better than my 97% ... sitll getting my total kill count up to 1000 while maintaining over a 95% ratio is a goal in itself.
It helps makes a loss sting and keep you from entering arms race of ever more expensive ships... the risk of flying an expensive ship is huge even if you can afford to lose one 10x its cost
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Dian'h Might
Minmatar
Cash and Cargo Liberators Incorporated
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Posted - 2010.12.26 02:16:00 -
[136]
@ the OP: nice troll, +1
@ people responding seriously to the OP: If someone claims that the only thing keeping them from wanting to pvp is a lossmail, then they're just making up excuses. Remove killmails and they'll find 99 other reasons not to pvp.
- - -
Dian'h Might - C&Ps resident "internet kleptomaniac" |
Diomedes Calypso
|
Posted - 2010.12.26 02:18:00 -
[137]
For those that want to practice fighting,
to test fits.
to have duesl and tournies that won't hurt your combat record,
CCP give us the test server. Thats the best place to accomplish that sort of thing and can be done very efficiently.
Why don't people like using the test server? I don't because its not "real" and there is no skin in the game ... every time I risk a ship in game I do it with a real loss permanmently marked on my record for all to see.
I also like trading.. I make billions a month and could afford to lose a tengu a week without a dent... but until I know how to fly one really well.. not sp, but batlefield awareness, and cohesion with fleet-mates.. it would be rediculous to fly one. To me that adds a "reality" to the game.
The insults of go play "little kitty" or "wow" are off the mark.. slightly (and I won't get into the merits of those games in terms of PVE... quite entertaining depending on the age group.)
The true comparison should be something more like "go play Battlefield Bad-company"
You could have a true pvp experience without kb's but the kb's add immensely to the notion of "persistancy" of this virtual universe, that makes the game far mor interesting over a perioed of years (or to at least think forward and drink Koolaid to think of it that way).
Tldr want to practice ? use the test server.. Don't want losses to have a permanent cost to you but don't want to use the test server.. maybe go play battlefield bad company where each day is a new game. ?
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Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor Elite
PWNED THEORY
|
Posted - 2010.12.26 02:48:00 -
[138]
Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 26/12/2010 02:49:10
The problem is that the point system is Borked...
If you nuke an Ibis in a Titan you get more points then if you were in fleet that killed a Hac. Its a screwed up system that should be realistically looked at IMO. If I fly down to 0.0 and target paint capital ships blobbing one another my KB stats would be freakin EPIC, regardless of whether or not I actually shot at anything.
I don't think anyone here would disagree with a better developed, standardized point system for killboards.
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Diomedes Calypso
|
Posted - 2010.12.26 03:04:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Eternum Praetorian
Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 26/12/2010 02:49:10
The problem is that the point system is Borked...
If you nuke an Ibis in a Titan you get more points then if you were in fleet that killed a Hac. Its a screwed up system that should be realistically looked at IMO. If I fly down to 0.0 and target paint capital ships blobbing one another my KB stats would be freakin EPIC, regardless of whether or not I actually shot at anything.
I don't think anyone here would disagree with a better developed, standardized point system for killboards.
This sort of thing has nothing to do with kill-mails.
The boards have the data to score things a dozen different ways ... or more really... the data is there.. let the viewers set their own paramenters on what should or shouldn't be worth points and run the data from a query though that filter.
I've done that sort of thing on all sorts of stock intrinsic value calculators that find values based on projected future revenues, and irr caclulations based upon those and residual sale value etc... given all the mit brains here allowing everyone to look at the same data their own way should be childs play.
Maybe not exaclty the way you wanted..but you could give different ships your own score value and compare relative values of ships in ecounters and assess points accordingly
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Sigma Special Tactics Group
Fleet Coordination Coalition
|
Posted - 2010.12.26 03:08:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Eternum Praetorian
Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 26/12/2010 02:49:10
The problem is that the point system is Borked...
If you nuke an Ibis in a Titan you get more points then if you were in fleet that killed a Hac. Its a screwed up system that should be realistically looked at IMO. If I fly down to 0.0 and target paint capital ships blobbing one another my KB stats would be freakin EPIC, regardless of whether or not I actually shot at anything.
I don't think anyone here would disagree with a better developed, standardized point system for killboards.
A while back you and I argued over 4th Generation Warfare and this game. There was no agreement on whether or not these tactics meant anything to this game but there is one element that could play out: the economics of warfare.
One of the elements of 4GW is the gain to loss ratio. For example, if you take out a cheap old pickup truck with an M1 battle tank, and the cost of fielding it and the shell used cost more than the target, you still lose.
Therefore one improvement that might be possible for a kill mail would be the cost of the kill. If I blast noob ships all day at a gate with faction missiles, it could be said I got kills, but I would be spending considerable ISK on killing free rookie ships. Who really lost? When 6 battleships gank a noob in a Thorax, would that be a worthwhile victory when comparing the prices of equipment lost versus cost of equipment fielded?
What, exactly, is the point system based on anyway? I never learned about this.
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Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor Elite
PWNED THEORY
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Posted - 2010.12.26 03:49:00 -
[141]
Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 26/12/2010 03:50:15
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer
A while back you and I argued over 4th Generation Warfare and this game.
One of the elements of 4GW is the gain to loss ratio. For example, if you take out a cheap old pickup truck with an M1 battle tank, and the cost of fielding it and the shell used cost more than the target, you still lose.
Holy **** you have a long forum memory lol.
My point, in that "Aaron" thread that was entirely missed was that 4th generation warfare only exists as a courtesy and sufferance of the more technologically advanced force that refuses to use its superior technological might for humanitarian reasons.
I never said 4th generation warfare does not or cannot exist. /digresses.
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Sigma Special Tactics Group
Fleet Coordination Coalition
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Posted - 2010.12.26 03:57:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Eternum Praetorian
Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 26/12/2010 03:50:15
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer
A while back you and I argued over 4th Generation Warfare and this game.
One of the elements of 4GW is the gain to loss ratio. For example, if you take out a cheap old pickup truck with an M1 battle tank, and the cost of fielding it and the shell used cost more than the target, you still lose.
Holy **** you have a long forum memory lol.
My point, in that "Aaron" thread that was entirely missed was that 4th generation warfare only exists as a courtesy and sufferance of the more technologically advanced force that refuses to use its superior technological might for humanitarian reasons.
I never said 4th generation warfare does not or cannot exist. /digresses.
I don't get out much.
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Dirk Magnum
Blue Republic
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Posted - 2010.12.26 04:07:00 -
[143]
One time I was waiting in a belt in Low Sec with my Pilgrim and two other people flew to the belt and started fighting. I uncloaked and KM *****d. True story.
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Diomedes Calypso
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Posted - 2010.12.26 05:01:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Dirk Magnum
Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 26/12/2010 04:07:43
One time I was waiting in a belt in Low Sec with my Pilgrim and two other people flew to the belt and started fighting. I uncloaked and KM *****d with a tracking disruptor and then flew off. True story.
Why not? All games are abstractions.... with their own set of rules...we're immune from line of site fire problems etc which would require an entirely different skill level.
The game is to tag kills.. what you did also involved some risk... it could have been a trap, or someone else might have warped in on top of you thinking the same thing you were and got you in the process.
You took a risk, got a reward.. not saying the risk and reward are balanced.. but as the reward means different things to different people it doesn't matter.
What does matter is that you did think it was a cherry to encourage you to give it a shot but that you didn't feel like it was always worth the shot to do so without caution knowing that you could always buy another ship because you were filthy iskrich
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Selinate
Amarr
Wardens of the Void
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Posted - 2010.12.26 07:09:00 -
[145]
Originally by: Diomedes Calypso
Originally by: Dirk Magnum
Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 26/12/2010 04:07:43
One time I was waiting in a belt in Low Sec with my Pilgrim and two other people flew to the belt and started fighting. I uncloaked and KM *****d with a tracking disruptor and then flew off. True story.
Why not? All games are abstractions.... with their own set of rules...we're immune from line of site fire problems etc which would require an entirely different skill level.
The game is to tag kills.. what you did also involved some risk... it could have been a trap, or someone else might have warped in on top of you thinking the same thing you were and got you in the process.
You took a risk, got a reward.. not saying the risk and reward are balanced.. but as the reward means different things to different people it doesn't matter.
What does matter is that you did think it was a cherry to encourage you to give it a shot but that you didn't feel like it was always worth the shot to do so without caution knowing that you could always buy another ship because you were filthy iskrich
"Cool story, bro" would've sufficed....
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Piercing Silence
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Posted - 2010.12.26 10:53:00 -
[146]
I was in rens looking for a t1 frig duel. These are fun, no one can dispute that.
Reason why people shy away: killboards
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Darth Karnage
PWNED Factor Elite
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Posted - 2010.12.28 05:20:00 -
[147]
One time my group didn't get an inty KM even though the wreck was on the overview but the ship still made a sound when it fell ... or did it?
Otherwise, this tread made me think of SiSi as it relates to killboard obsession.
Maybe there is a higher purpose for tracking kills (and losses) by fighting ships you don't often see / wouldn't engage that happen to be hanging around waiting to be shot at with ships you possibly can't fly (or afford to lose)... but this one eludes me.
I dunno, but I can't wait until the holidays are over so I can work on my less imaginary PVP stats.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.12.28 05:27:00 -
[148]
more like everyone is paranoid about losing ships because losing ships sucks.
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Space Pinata
Amarr
Discount Napkin Industries
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Posted - 2010.12.28 05:41:00 -
[149]
I have a lot of ISK.
I could afford to buy a bunch of soloBC and BS and run around lowsec pew-ing at people.
I do not do so because, while -I- could care less about K:D ratio, any corp I might apply to in the future most certainly will.
The same can be said for fancy ships. I could afford to PVP in faction ship or a tech3 cruiser, the ISK is not much of an object.
What is an object is the fact that people will be hurring about that ship for months.
Now, sure, I could be super careful and not lose it, but then we're back to the same point: blobbing, uneven fights, not engaging when you might lose, etc. The alternative is to accept that it will die and fly it like it's a toy (yknow, because this is a game and it IS a toy).
But that ends up with super srsbusiness people trolling you about it for months and having to explain to any future-employers what happened.
And then being told that you're not wanted because you lose ships.
Yes, I have seen this. While personally I think whoever generates the most kills is being the most useful, regardless of how much they lose (it's their money, not mine).. I've had corps tell me that if I ever lost a faction BS I'd be kicked because that kind of loss would hurt their efficiency too much. So, I can fly one, I'd just better not ever lose it. Meaning it can't be put to use in any situation where it'd actually help more than a tech1 BS.
So, yeah, there you have it.
As a merc we were very frequently told to fly cheaper ships (t2 frigs instead of cruisers, etc. Bombers for DPS instead of HACs, etc etc.). This was not because ships were corp supplied; we supplied ourselved individually.
This was entirely because losing the cheaper ships is less of an efficiency hit on the killboard, and they wanted to look good on the killboard.
Part of this stems from employers, btw. If they see a 95% efficiency merc corp that destroys 1 billion, they think 'elite', but a 60% efficiency corp that destroys 5 billion is not considered 'Elite'. More damage from the job, but, they don't look like they're dominating.
So, yes, killmails bring all sorts of irrational BS into the game. I've seen it firsthand. |
Ronald Raygunn
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Posted - 2010.12.28 06:07:00 -
[150]
Originally by: Demolishar
Killboards are integral to EVE gameplay. Removing them is unthinkable.
How are they integral to Eve gameplay? Like, if they were removed, does that mean that no one could pvp anymore? People would just sit around a lolsec gate as traffic proceeds normally, crying tears that if only they had a KB, they could shoot at said ships. They would reminisce about the days they got KMs and orbit the gate in the meantime, wishing that they could just get one more kill. But no, the removal of KBs have removed the capability to shoot at another player. Shucks.
And just cause there are no safe places in game, doesn't make it pvp-centric game. The players make it so, not the game. If it was truly a game solely geared for pvp, then there would be no mission runners, or miners or anything like that. Or it would be called COD: EVE. Either or.
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Dorian Tormak
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Posted - 2010.12.28 06:37:00 -
[151]
Anyone who wants KBs to go away just has a ****ty killboard.
Except... that isn't true, since I myself indeed have a ****ty KB.
But I don't want KBs to go away. Back before I got IP banned from battleclinic I used to enjoy looking at my killboard and watching it go down or up and posting tear comments on some of my gank losses.
And now I am starting to use Eve-kill.
But anyway, KBs are cool. all you have to do is look at the involved parties attribute and that'll tell you whos into solo and whos into fleet ****.
just ignore all the ******s who gatecamp and ****. theyre the equivalant of those people who sit in the corner an entire match on COD.
tldr suck my ****.
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Selinate
Amarr
Wardens of the Void
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Posted - 2010.12.28 07:16:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Dorian Tormak
Anyone who wants KBs to go away just has a ****ty killboard.
Except... that isn't true, since I myself indeed have a ****ty KB.
But I don't want KBs to go away. Back before I got IP banned from battleclinic I used to enjoy looking at my killboard and watching it go down or up and posting tear comments on some of my gank losses.
And now I am starting to use Eve-kill.
But anyway, KBs are cool. all you have to do is look at the involved parties attribute and that'll tell you whos into solo and whos into fleet ****.
just ignore all the ******s who gatecamp and ****. theyre the equivalant of those people who sit in the corner an entire match on COD.
tldr suck my ****.
With that attitude, I can't imagine why you were IP banned from Battleclinic (and with a less sarcastic tone, why your opinion even matters in the first place)...
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