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Wolf Spyder	Posted - 2010.12.29 17:03:00 - [1] CCP did a good thing when they finally came a round and criminally flagged individuals that took other peoples loot. How about doing the same thing for wreck salvaging. Or perhaps the wrecks can be rigged with explosives that would do 5k in damage to any would be thief. They salvage the wreck and the bomb explodes in their hold. Causing reverse damage. What ever the case I am getting a bit annoyed with players taking salvage that dont belong to them and the only thing I can do at the time is sit by and watch. It would be nice if CCP would do the same for salvage that they do for containers.
Azura Noctis Amarr SWARTA Mostly Clueless	Posted - 2010.12.29 17:06:00 - [2] Feel the same way, but most likely won't happen.
Mr Cleann	Posted - 2010.12.29 17:11:00 - [3] It might happen. It took CCP about 2 years before they did that for containers. Hopefully they will go a lot faster with salvage thieves. I had one person try and steal my salvage. when he did he turned red. I almost attacked, the only thing that stopped me was that the red was not blinking. That was very annoying as I was in a Ishtar and they were in a rifter. Concord would have popped the wrong ship. Which means I would have been victimized twice. Once by a player and again by some donut eating NPC law Enforcment agency. Oh I probably would have been vicimized 3 times as the salvage thieves would have most likely take anything that was left from my wreck. Including salvage.......
Jaina Sunspot Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate	Posted - 2010.12.29 17:15:00 - [4] Per CCP Mitnal: Originally by: CCP Mitnal "Our policy on this is extremely clear... Salvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing." Per GM Faolchu : Originally by: GM Faolchu Salvaging other peoples wrecks.... This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage. Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up. Per Senior GM Ytterbium : Originally by: GM Ytterbium Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will ... and doing so is not considered as an exploit. Per CCP Prism X : Originally by: CCP Prism X Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing. Per CCP Incognito : Originally by: CCP Incognito Had a chat with some designers this evening. Ninja salvaging is intended game play. It was always intended that the wrecks are public, the loot is private. They do not see it as a problem if others salvage your wrecks. (These quotes are kept handy for your convenience at Ironfleet.com.) ------------------------------ Apparently some people have the wrong definition of thief. All the tears in the world won't make that floating garbage yours.
Princess Bride Caldari Corripe Cervisiam Trade Consortium	Posted - 2010.12.29 17:22:00 - [5] Mmmm.. ninja salvage victim tears. This makes me want to dust off the salvage desty and come looking for the OP. For the 10000000th time, this argument has been settled long ago, and ninja salvaging/looting has already nerfed with: 1) loot agg flag. 2) the completely unrealistic property of "other people's metal" being immune to tractor beams. 3) a new ship with ridiculous tractor beam range to make it even easier for missioners to beat out ninjas. Ninja salvage remains one of the best way for days-old chars to make ISK, not to mention dip their feet into PVP. If it wasn't for ninja salvage I would have grown bored of running L1 missions and left EVE before finding out what a beautiful and relatively un-nerfed game it really is. Those who advocate nerfing ninja salvage need to be super-wedgied and shoved in a locker with a pile of dirty undies like the nerfy whiny nerds they are. "The OTHER PLEX is on the OTHER side of the contract. Right click to flip it over."
Mr Cleann	Posted - 2010.12.29 17:30:00 - [6] Edited by: Mr Cleann on 29/12/2010 17:45:17 Edited by: Mr Cleann on 29/12/2010 17:39:25 The same excuse can be said about stealing loot. That it is intended as a mini profession for anyone in eve that wants to do it. I by no means view wreck salvaging as an exploit. However it does give people that want to partake in salvaging other peoples wrecks a zero risk profession. Because the person that generated that wreck can only sit by and do nothing. The risks should be at least simular to the loot containers. There should be risks involved. What is currently going on with salvage, is the exact same thing that went on with loot cans a few years back when people were stealing those. With people being able to choose to abandon the wrecks. It should be reasonable to ask that criminal flagging be allowed for salvaging wrecks that have not been abandond.
ClaritySam	Posted - 2010.12.29 17:37:00 - [7] I see flames in this threads future
Jaina Sunspot Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate	Posted - 2010.12.29 17:39:00 - [8] Originally by: Mr Cleann other peoples wrecks Wrecks are not owned. Originally by: Mr Cleann a zero risk profession. Because the person that generated that wreck can only sit by and do nothing. The risks should be at least simular to the loot containers. Their should be risks involved. Lvl 4 Missions are completely risk free. There is not an instance where you will loose a ship if you know what you are doing. There is zero risk whatsoever to doing them. As long as Lvl 4 missions are risk free the RVR argument is not worth the space in the post it takes up. Why should one CCP sanctioned profession be risk free and not the other, and the least profitable of the 2 is the one you are picking on.
Princess Bride Caldari Corripe Cervisiam Trade Consortium	Posted - 2010.12.29 17:40:00 - [9] Originally by: Mr Cleann The same excuse can be said about stealing loot. I agree. There is a logic disconnect here caused by the nerf on stealing loot. Said nerf should be removed immediately. Quote: However it does give people that want to partake in salvaging wother peoples wrecks a zero risk profession. Because the person that generated that wreck can only sit by and do nothing. Or they can use the tractor beams on their Noctis, which gives them an insane advantage over the ninja. Or they can blow up the wrecks. Or they can try to trick the ninja into looting. Or they can warp out and let the NPCs agg on the ninja and kill him or drive him off. So really, "sit by and do nothing" is simply your own lack of imaginative solutions. "The OTHER PLEX is on the OTHER side of the contract. Right click to flip it over."
Mr Cleann	Posted - 2010.12.29 17:42:00 - [10] Quote: Lvl 4 Missions are completely risk free. There is not an instance where you will loose a ship if you know what you are doing. There is zero risk whatsoever to doing them. As long as Lvl 4 missions are risk free the RVR argument is not worth the space in the post it takes up. Why should one CCP sanctioned profession be risk free and not the other, and the least profitable of the 2 is the one you are picking on. I might agree with you but were not talking about lvl 4 missions. were talking about salvaging.
De'Veldrin Minmatar Green-Core The Obsidian Legion	Posted - 2010.12.29 17:44:00 - [11] You know what. I am so sick of the whining about this, I hope they give you exactly what you're asking for. I'll toss a salvager on my PvP Hurricane and ***** some killmails. Lord knows my efficiency could use the boost. --Vel I'm more of a care-badger.
Mr Cleann	Posted - 2010.12.29 17:48:00 - [12] Originally by: De'Veldrin You know what. I am so sick of the whining about this, I hope they give you exactly what you're asking for. I'll toss a salvager on my PvP Hurricane and ***** some killmails. Lord knows my efficiency could use the boost. Heres an idea. If it bothers you so much. don't click on the link. Simple isn't it.....
Jaina Sunspot Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate	Posted - 2010.12.29 17:49:00 - [13] Originally by: Mr Cleann I might agree with you but were not talking about lvl 4 missions. were talking about salvaging. So you are saying when you accept a Lvl 4 mission or start a mining Laser Cycle other people should be able to shoot you? Not all professions carry risk, Salvaging is one of them. The premise is the wrecks are not owned, changing that, changes it to a criminal profession and it isn't. It is legal and like most other PVE professions risk free. So why are you only complaining about one risk free profession?
Jovan Geldon Gallente Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire	Posted - 2010.12.29 18:40:00 - [14] Originally by: Wolf players taking salvage that dont belong to them Wrecks don't belong to anyone, only the loot in them. Stop whining and salvage faster if you're that bothered.
Calfis Amarr F.R.E.E. Explorer The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.12.29 18:57:00 - [15] Originally by: Mr Cleann Quote: Lvl 4 Missions are completely risk free. There is not an instance where you will loose a ship if you know what you are doing. There is zero risk whatsoever to doing them. As long as Lvl 4 missions are risk free the RVR argument is not worth the space in the post it takes up. Why should one CCP sanctioned profession be risk free and not the other, and the least profitable of the 2 is the one you are picking on. I might agree with you but were not talking about lvl 4 missions. were talking about salvaging. You missed the point here buddy, he is saying if there is something wrong with ninja salvaging being a risk free profession then there is something wrong with mission running being a risk free profession. tl;dr why should mission runners have a risk free profession and not ninja salvagers as well.
Wolf Spyder	Posted - 2010.12.29 19:12:00 - [16] Mission running isnt a risk free profession. I get shot at, webbed, jammed, vamped, and sometimes popped. If thats not risk I have no idea what is. However salvaging wrecks under the protection of concord is a no risk profession. Not to mention a bias one. As it is designed for people that can protect themselves so they have to rely on a npc faction that has uber firing abilities to help out.
HomigoshZur Project Manticore	Posted - 2010.12.29 19:19:00 - [17] Originally by: Wolf Spyder Edited by: Wolf Spyder on 29/12/2010 19:16:25 Mission running isnt a risk free profession. I get shot at, webbed, jammed, vamped, and sometimes popped. If thats not risk I have no idea what is. However salvaging wrecks under the protection of concord is a no risk profession. Not to mention a bias one. As it is designed for people that dont have to protect themselves as they know that Concord will take care of everything using thier uber firing abilities to help out and garner more loot and salvage for them. Salvaging without risk of being attacked by the person that created the wreaks is for weak minded people. It's a weak profession that could use some adjustment to add risk. just because you're bad at missions doesnt mean they have risk
Wolf Spyder	Posted - 2010.12.29 19:24:00 - [18] Originally by: HomigoshZur Originally by: Wolf Spyder Edited by: Wolf Spyder on 29/12/2010 19:16:25 Mission running isnt a risk free profession. I get shot at, webbed, jammed, vamped, and sometimes popped. If thats not risk I have no idea what is. However salvaging wrecks under the protection of concord is a no risk profession. Not to mention a bias one. As it is designed for people that dont have to protect themselves as they know that Concord will take care of everything using thier uber firing abilities to help out and garner more loot and salvage for them. Salvaging without risk of being attacked by the person that created the wreaks is for weak minded people. It's a weak profession that could use some adjustment to add risk. just because you're bad at missions doesnt mean they have risk[/quote LOL I solo lvl 4 missions and sleeper missions. Sleepers take a lot of work though. But occationally just like everyone else i do have my off days.....It's called risk. Sometimes you get the bear and sometimes the bear gets you.
HomigoshZur Project Manticore	Posted - 2010.12.29 19:26:00 - [19] Originally by: Wolf Spyder Originally by: HomigoshZur Originally by: Wolf Spyder Edited by: Wolf Spyder on 29/12/2010 19:16:25 Mission running isnt a risk free profession. I get shot at, webbed, jammed, vamped, and sometimes popped. If thats not risk I have no idea what is. However salvaging wrecks under the protection of concord is a no risk profession. Not to mention a bias one. As it is designed for people that dont have to protect themselves as they know that Concord will take care of everything using thier uber firing abilities to help out and garner more loot and salvage for them. Salvaging without risk of being attacked by the person that created the wreaks is for weak minded people. It's a weak profession that could use some adjustment to add risk. just because you're bad at missions doesnt mean they have risk[/quote LOL I solo lvl 4 missions and sleeper missions. Sleepers take a lot of work though. But occationally just like everyone else i do have my off days.....It's called risk. Sometimes you get the bear and sometimes the bear gets you. you make it sound like missions are hard also i want sleeper missions also da bears
Jaina Sunspot Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate	Posted - 2010.12.29 19:28:00 - [20] Originally by: Wolf Spyder Mission running isnt a risk free profession. I get shot at, Predictable Dmg Types means it is easy to tank. Originally by: Wolf Spyder webbed, Shoot the Webber, Done. Originally by: Wolf Spyder jammed, More of an annoyance, no problem really. Originally by: Wolf Spyder vamped, So rare it is a joke and even then primary the NOS. Originally by: Wolf Spyder and sometimes popped. That should never happen, ever. Missions of any level are easy as long as you bring what you need and know the spawns. But hey Ninja's who dun kno the spawn die to. Originally by: Wolf Spyder If thats not risk I have no idea what is. PVP for one thing. Originally by: Wolf Spyder However salvaging wrecks under the protection of concord is a no risk profession. So is missioning under Concord if you know what you are doing. Originally by: Wolf Spyder Not to mention a bias one. As it is designed for people that can protect themselves so they have to rely on a npc faction that has uber firing abilities to help out. Yes sitting in a Mission completely protected by Concord while making 50mil an hour blitzing lvl 4's in a Raven at 3 mil SP is a bias profession compared to lower income mining and ninja'ing. Seems mission runners have all the benefits, at least there not whiny about loosing 15% of possible free to all income. I have to alt tab back to Worlds Collide LVL 4 I heard the shield alarm, nothing a few boosts won't handle, it is not like I am in danger.
Mr Cleann	Posted - 2010.12.29 22:14:00 - [21] Originally by: Princess Bride Edited by: Princess Bride on 29/12/2010 17:50:58 Originally by: Mr Cleann The same excuse can be said about stealing loot. I agree. There is a logic disconnect here caused by the nerf on stealing loot. Said nerf should be removed immediately. ---- NOpe said "Nerf" should be expanded to include the rest of the garbage floating in space. Especially if its latched on to by someones tractor beam.
Mr Cleann	Posted - 2010.12.29 22:19:00 - [22] Edited by: Mr Cleann on 29/12/2010 22:20:13 Originally by: Jaina Sunspot Originally by: Wolf Spyder Mission running isnt a risk free profession. I get shot at, Predictable Dmg Types means it is easy to tank. Originally by: Wolf Spyder webbed, Shoot the Webber, Done. Originally by: Wolf Spyder jammed, More of an annoyance, no problem really. Originally by: Wolf Spyder vamped, So rare it is a joke and even then primary the NOS. Originally by: Wolf Spyder and sometimes popped. That should never happen, ever. Missions of any level are easy as long as you bring what you need and know the spawns. But hey Ninja's who dun kno the spawn die to. Originally by: Wolf Spyder If thats not risk I have no idea what is. PVP for one thing. Originally by: Wolf Spyder However salvaging wrecks under the protection of concord is a no risk profession. So is missioning under Concord if you know what you are doing. Originally by: Wolf Spyder Not to mention a bias one. As it is designed for people that can protect themselves so they have to rely on a npc faction that has uber firing abilities to help out. Yes sitting in a Mission completely protected by Concord while making 50mil an hour blitzing lvl 4's in a Raven at 3 mil SP is a bias profession compared to lower income mining and ninja'ing. Seems mission runners have all the benefits, at least there not whiny about loosing 15% of possible free to all income. I have to alt tab back to Worlds Collide LVL 4 I heard the shield alarm, nothing a few boosts won't handle, it is not like I am in danger. Salvaging wreaks = Absolutely 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000% risk free guaranteed protection by concord.
Jaina Sunspot Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate	Posted - 2010.12.29 22:21:00 - [23] Originally by: Mr Cleann Salvaging wreaks = Absolutely 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000% risk free guaranteed protection by concord. Running Missions = Absolutely 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000% risk free guaranteed protection by concord.
Riedle Minmatar Paradox Collective Black Legion.	Posted - 2010.12.29 23:09:00 - [24] Edited by: Riedle on 29/12/2010 23:10:32 You can already shoot someone for taking your salvage. Why you would jettison it for someone to take it though, is the question... To what you are really whining about, and that's pilots salvaging your wrecks before you do - well that is not stealing. However, I would support your 'solution' and endorse making people who salvage 'your' wrecks red to you. It will not have the effect that you are looking for but I would move back to high sec for a few weeks after this change was implemented - for sure.
Carnella	Posted - 2010.12.29 23:22:00 - [25] Originally by: Princess Bride 1) loot agg flag; 2) the completely unrealistic property of "other people's metal" being immune to tractor beams; 3) a new ship with ridiculous tractor beam range to make it even easier for missioners to beat out ninjas. Ninja salvager checking in. I do it because, frankly, I'll probably never be running high level missions, and I've got a nice little business going in rig manufacturing, so whenever I can cut out the market as a middleman on my materials supply, I do. The tears of mission runners is only a bonus. Today I saw for the first time a group of players that would rather blow up their wrecks than allow me to salvage them. Crazy. Now nobody gets to salvage them, and what's the point of that? Anyway, rule number 2 is a weird thing to me. If ninja salvaging is a legitimate mini-profession, as CCP has repeatedly made clear, then I think we should be able to tractor unowned wrecks if we can target them first. To have it otherwise is sending a mixed message, and it's probably part of the reason that so many people whine on these forums about people salvaging their wrecks.
Scrapyard Attendant Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2010.12.29 23:24:00 - [26] This is most likely a troll, but whatever You know you aren't the only person that gets shot by the missioners? Considering salvage ships always have no tank on them, being shot by a few battleships and scrammed in a mission that isnt even yours = risk..
Harrigan VonStudly Original Sin.	Posted - 2010.12.29 23:45:00 - [27] Why is this care bear ** posted here? no one gives a flying ** about your stinking salvage issues. Damn care bears. Always stinking up the joint. Go play WoW with mintchip
Killstealing	Posted - 2010.12.30 00:23:00 - [28] he sure got you guys good eh? I mean, cmon, think, no way this guy is serious... right? Right? RIGHT??
Xia Shianggu	Posted - 2010.12.30 01:21:00 - [29] Originally by: Mr Cleann The same excuse can be said about stealing loot. That it is intended as a mini profession for anyone in eve that wants to do it. Except it can't, because it isn't.
Kharylien Gallente Masked Rider Project	Posted - 2010.12.30 01:26:00 - [30] Originally by: Princess Bride Or they can use the tractor beams on their Noctis, which gives them an insane advantage over the ninja. Or they can blow up the wrecks. Or they can try to trick the ninja into looting. Or they can warp out and let the NPCs agg on the ninja and kill him or drive him off. So really, "sit by and do nothing" is simply your own lack of imaginative solutions. Actually, sitting by and doing nothing is my usual solution. When I do L4s I run in a permatanking Dominix. If a would-be salvage ninja shows up, I pull in my drones, stop shooting, and wait for them to leave, or, yes, warp out. I salvage as I go, so they get 1, 2 wrecks tops. IT'S LIKE IT'S NOT A BIG DEAL AT ALL OR SOMETHING unless you're using crazy faction-fit ships that rip through really fast and then you come back to salvage in which case HTFU what do you care

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