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QuantumSlit
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Posted - 2010.12.30 18:49:00 -
[1]
The Interdiction nullifier has to be paired with the Covert-Ops cloak to be of any real use, and as this pairing is made useless by the mere dropping of cans at a gate camp I find myself asking if they are of any value whatsoever?
The description of the Interdicion Nullifier states that... "All of the reports made mention of Loki-class vessels slipping past defensive deployments and into core Guristas territory despite all efforts to stop the ships or slow them down."
Perhaps these efforts where not as hi-tec as dropping cargo cans?
I struggle to beleive that when CCP conceived and designed these modules that they intended them to be beaten by a cargo container, it takes months of training and almost a billion isk investment to aquire a ship with these capabilities and zero training and zero isk to drop a cloud of cargo containers around a gate to defeat them.
So with this taken into account I Question if these items have any value whatsoever and should they be removed from the game completely?
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Viribus
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2010.12.30 19:00:00 -
[2]
Lost your first T3 huh?
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=8324440
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Rastigan
Caldari
Ars ex Discordia
Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2010.12.30 19:00:00 -
[3]
Can these cans tackle t3 ships? I've nevered been tackled by a can in a covops/bomber/recon. Or are you just lazy and doing inline warps ?
No ship will ever make up for a bad player.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.12.30 19:02:00 -
[4]
They have value, they work, and no, they don't cost "almost a billion ISK".
So no, why should they be removed?
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Grimpak
Gallente
The Whitehound Corporation
Hounds of Anarchy
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Posted - 2010.12.30 19:12:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: QuantumSlit
The Interdiction nullifier has to be paired with the Covert-Ops cloak to be of any real use, and as this pairing is made useless by the mere dropping of cans at a gate camp I find myself asking if they are of any value whatsoever?
The description of the Interdicion Nullifier states that... "All of the reports made mention of Loki-class vessels slipping past defensive deployments and into core Guristas territory despite all efforts to stop the ships or slow them down."
Perhaps these efforts where not as hi-tec as dropping cargo cans?
I struggle to beleive that when CCP conceived and designed these modules that they intended them to be beaten by a cargo container, it takes months of training and almost a billion isk investment to aquire a ship with these capabilities and zero training and zero isk to drop a cloud of cargo containers around a gate to defeat them.
So with this taken into account I Question if these items have any value whatsoever and should they be removed from the game completely?
well while I usually say that the pvp value of said subsystem is arguable at best, you really blundered there.
as Rastigan said, bad players can't be saved by ships.
---
Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2010.12.30 19:23:00 -
[6]
Originally by: QuantumSlit
The Interdiction nullifier has to be paired with the Covert-Ops cloak to be of any real use, and as this pairing is made useless by the mere dropping of cans at a gate camp I find myself asking if they are of any value whatsoever?
There are two situations here:
1) You warp into a drag bubble with a can dropped at expected the warpin point. The combo above lets your ship ignore the bubble completely, and makes this tactic useless against you.
2) You try to warp inside a bubble. The combo above allows you to enter warp despite the bubble, and cloak keeps the enemy from pointing you. You can still get decloaked by interceptors, but it is not really that easy with fast-aligning t3.
Keep in mind, dropping tons of containers around a gate is deemed an exploit. Cant do much against exploiters apart from petitioning them really.
Dropping containers at warpin points in drag bubbles is a massive grey area at best if you ask me, not deemed an exploit afaik, but not your problem in a t3.
The interceptor bit is the only thing you really need to worry about, but lets face it, complete invulnerability would be a tad bit OP, dont you think?
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.12.30 19:29:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Omara Otawan
Dropping containers at warpin points in drag bubbles is a massive grey area at best if you ask me, not deemed an exploit afaik, but not your problem in a t3.
Not an exploit, not a gray area. The exploit comes from trying to lag people out when they land on grid.
-Liang
--
Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
On Twitter
- Blog got deleted when Evepress died - |
Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2010.12.30 19:38:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Not an exploit, not a gray area. The exploit comes from trying to lag people out when they land on grid.
Yes gray area, its basically the same thing (well, almost as the exact location isnt as fixed) as dropping decloaking cans at your deadspace dropin point when running a low/null mission. Which gets you a slap on the wrist and a "please dont do that" when reported.
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Daneel Trevize
Black Viper Nomads
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Posted - 2010.12.30 21:26:00 -
[9]
Never mind being tackled by cans, wtf were you going to do with that fit anyway? Killmail ***** with the 1 gun? Get aggro and rep with 1 repper while packing 3 RR for a friend?? No T2 gun skills and a T3?? |
Grimpak
Gallente
The Whitehound Corporation
Hounds of Anarchy
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Posted - 2010.12.30 21:57:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Daneel Trevize
Never mind being tackled by cans, wtf were you going to do with that fit anyway? Killmail ***** with the 1 gun? Get aggro and rep with 1 repper while packing 3 RR for a friend?? No T2 gun skills and a T3??
being a loot pi±ata?
---
Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.12.30 22:03:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Omara Otawan
Yes gray area, its basically the same thing (well, almost as the exact location isnt as fixed) as dropping decloaking cans at your deadspace dropin point when running a low/null mission. Which gets you a slap on the wrist and a "please dont do that" when reported.
Only if the GM is clueless.
The only thing that's not allowed when it comes to dropping cans is, and always has been, dropping so many of them that it causes grid load issues. Planning ahead to figure out where cloakers might land does not even come close (and in deadspace, there are quite often beacons that will do that anyway).
ànot that it matters, since as others have pointed out, you'd have to be pretty dumb and/or insanely lazy to warp to the obvious warp-in point.
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
QuantumSlit
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Posted - 2010.12.31 00:24:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Viribus
Lost your first T3 huh?
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=8324440
No I have lost numerous T3 ships through making mistakes and the learning process, losses are not an issue for me, now that aside do you have anything to say in relevance to the question?
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QuantumSlit
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Posted - 2010.12.31 00:30:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Rastigan
Can these cans tackle t3 ships? I've nevered been tackled by a can in a covops/bomber/recon. Or are you just lazy and doing inline warps ?
No ship will ever make up for a bad player.
The situation occured after jumping through a gate directly into another syste
, no lazy online warp Ins as you suggest.
The victim who incidentally was not me was into structure before he even loaded grid, the cloud of cans obviously decloaked him and left him vulnerable to warp scram/disrupt.......so the question remains is this pairing of subsystems useless if these tactics are acceptable?
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QuantumSlit
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Posted - 2010.12.31 00:36:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Tippia
They have value, they work, and no, they don't cost "almost a billion ISK".
So no, why should they be removed?
If there is a cloud of cans at the gate you just jumped through then these subsystems do not work....and yes a fully fitted T3 costs close to a billion isk.
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QuantumSlit
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Posted - 2010.12.31 00:42:00 -
[15]
Grimpac I fail to see your point at all, the pvp value is not part of the question and neither was weather the victim was a bad player, the point is that he never had the chance to play at all due to the lag caused by the cans which disabled the usefulness of said subsystems.
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.12.31 00:43:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 31/12/2010 00:43:46
Originally by: QuantumSlit
The situation occured after jumping through a gate directly into another syste
... the cloud of cans obviously decloaked him and left him vulnerable to warp scram/disrupt
Three things:
- The cloud of cans will not decloak him before the session change wears off.
- The cloud of cans lagged him out, and that definitely is an exploit. You should petition it - but the logs will show nothing.
- Being unable to recloak has happened repeatedly to me even without clouds of cans. QQ Moar tbh.
-Liang
Ed: Counting!
--
Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
On Twitter
- Blog got deleted when Evepress died - |
QuantumSlit
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Posted - 2010.12.31 00:53:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Omara Otawan
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Not an exploit, not a gray area. The exploit comes from trying to lag people out when they land on grid.
unfortunately not a grey area as a GM stated to me that "the dropping of cans around a celestial is not and never has been considered an exploit"
of course deliberately inducing lag is classed as an exploit but the GM I spoke to stated that 50+ cans on the gate seemed acceptable, what was strange however was that all the cans dissapeared simaltaneously sparking debate as to weather a GM removed them.....the GM I spoke to was unwilling to confirm that this had actually happened.
Yes gray area, its basically the same thing (well, almost as the exact location isnt as fixed) as dropping decloaking cans at your deadspace dropin point when running a low/null mission. Which gets you a slap on the wrist and a "please dont do that" when reported.
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QuantumSlit
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Posted - 2010.12.31 00:56:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Daneel Trevize
Never mind being tackled by cans, wtf were you going to do with that fit anyway? Killmail ***** with the 1 gun? Get aggro and rep with 1 repper while packing 3 RR for a friend?? No T2 gun skills and a T3??
The fit performs it's required task very well thanks and is not the ship or indeed the char that died to the can cloud incident.
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Rastigan
Caldari
Ars ex Discordia
Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2010.12.31 00:59:00 -
[19]
Originally by: QuantumSlit
The situation occured after jumping through a gate directly into another syste
, no lazy online warp Ins as you suggest.
The victim who incidentally was not me was into structure before he even loaded grid, the cloud of cans obviously decloaked him and left him vulnerable to warp scram/disrupt.......so the question remains is this pairing of subsystems useless if these tactics are acceptable?
If this is the case, I dont even see how this was a t3/subsystem issue as the shiptype is irrelevant.
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TimMc
Brutal Deliverance
Extreme Prejudice.
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Posted - 2010.12.31 01:20:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Rastigan
Originally by: QuantumSlit
The situation occured after jumping through a gate directly into another syste
, no lazy online warp Ins as you suggest.
The victim who incidentally was not me was into structure before he even loaded grid, the cloud of cans obviously decloaked him and left him vulnerable to warp scram/disrupt.......so the question remains is this pairing of subsystems useless if these tactics are acceptable?
If this is the case, I dont even see how this was a t3/subsystem issue as the shiptype is irrelevant.
OP thought the subsystem initiated god mode in eve and made him win all encounters.
He thought wrong and is crying about his subsystem being pointless if doesn't make him immortal.
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Headerman
Minmatar
Metanoia.
Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2010.12.31 01:34:00 -
[21]
no
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Izuru Hishido
Amarr
Lethal Dosage.
Violent Society
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Posted - 2010.12.31 01:53:00 -
[22]
No.
1) The moment you get in, warp. If you can't warp, get back through the gate and go through later. They aren't gonna have cans anchored at every 2km on that gate in a 12km sphere. You just got shafted by your luck, so you're just jaded towards the module. Why are you asking for the Nullifier to get nerfed? It seems to me like you should be asking for cans to get nerfed, or something equally ******ed.
2) Fast lockers can still lock you if you aren't fast enough on the cloak.
3) You're able to warp through bubbles. Fit so you align quickly, don't load up with three plates like you probably did. If you can't warp quickly, you'll get caught by the ceptors at the gate.
4) Even with a T3, you're still a flaming idiot for not using a scout.
So no, how about we remove more of your T3's from your possession, that'd be a better benefit to the rest of EVE.
"The point of war is not to die for your country, its to make the other bastard die for his." |
Xituqtra
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Posted - 2010.12.31 02:45:00 -
[23]
Originally by: QuantumSlit
The Interdiction nullifier has to be paired with the Covert-Ops cloak to be of any real use
ohhhh how wrong you are on that part. just fit your damage sub instead of the cov ops cloak sub.
then fit a normal cloak on your t3 and fit a MWD. Now I hope you can find out what you can do with this MWD and cloak.
if you have no clue what I'm talking about here is step by step explanation
1. Jump trough gate
2. wait a bit and see what is on the gate
3. click to wherever you want to warp
4. click the mwd
5. click the cloak as soon as possible
6. when at the end of the MWD cycle proceed to step 7
7. decloak
8. ?????
9. profit
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.12.31 03:02:00 -
[24]
Originally by: QuantumSlit
If there is a cloud of cans at the gate you just jumped through then these subsystems do not work.
Yes they do.
Quote:
and yes a fully fitted T3 costs close to a billion isk.
By that definition, a "fully fitted" anything costs close to a billion ISK. More to the point: nothing of what matters in this situation makes the ship in question cost close to a billion ISK, and no matter the cost, the piloting errors would have gotten that ship killed.
None of this has anything to do with either the nullifier or the cloaking subsystem ù they have everything to do with improper protocol when flying though nullsec. The fact that it happened to a T3 is 100% inconsequential.
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Lady Spank
Amarr
Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2010.12.31 03:23:00 -
[25]
lol
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Anubis Xian
Word Bearers of Chaos
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Posted - 2010.12.31 05:12:00 -
[26]
If they are asploitin, you be a petitionin mon.
Originally by: CCP Oveur
The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
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Thraxor Blacksoul
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Posted - 2010.12.31 11:17:00 -
[27]
Uuummmmmm, No!
So the long story short is, you fitted a subsystem, expected god mode, it didn't work the way you thought it should, you were blown up, and it's off to the forums to complain and get said subsystem removed???
LOL seriously this sounds like a case of a "I'm taking my ball and going home" whine.
And your selective quoting of the nullifier description is too funny.
Nullifier: an immunity to non-targeted interdiction such as mobile warp disruptors and interdiction spheres
Were these evil cans laying down bubbles?
Did the cans use some uber long range officer warp disruptors?
Maybe they were T2 cans exploiting with a secret anti-cloak module?
Seriously what in the world does cans at a gate have to do with the interdiction nullifier or it's use???
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Gemberslaafje
Vivicide
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Posted - 2010.12.31 11:21:00 -
[28]
... I don't get it.
Every single T3 'dictor Nullifier ship I've seen in space, ignored ALL bubbles.
Including inline ones and on-gate ones.
Even if you get decloaked by a can, just jump out.
I really don't get it.
---
Creator of the Eve Character Appraiser/Assembler:
http://gemblog.nl/skill/
http://gemblog.nl/assembler/
Originally by: De'Veldrin
Welcome to the ****ing sandbox
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Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2010.12.31 11:23:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Lady Spank
lol
Originally by: Allestin Villimar
Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it.
Originally by: Torothanax
Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive. |
Opertone
Caldari
World - of - Empire
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Posted - 2010.12.31 11:59:00 -
[30]
I've seen mother ****ers drop 15 cans, deploy drones and abandon them just to cause massive lag, decloaking and restrict movement near gates.
Containers in bubbles - stupid exploit from game point of view, even if GMs don't think the same. Exploits are for suckers and they love it.
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