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Grut
The Protei
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Posted - 2011.01.10 07:48:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Grut on 10/01/2011 07:52:48
 Originally by: Omara Otawan
The problem people have with the Deimos is not that it doesnt work, but rather that it is a 120mill cruiser that gets instantly primaried.
Nope it fails as a blaster hull, the slots are wrong, the fitting is useless, its slow, the siggy is bloated, its got a useless bonus ..... the list goes on.
Deimos + command loki + guards should = win .... but they don't cause it sucks so much.
Kinsy > deadman you
there?
Kinsy > are either of us in
pods, becase we dont know...
Mostly harmless
[ 2005.12.09 19:22:50 ] (notify) You have started trying to warp scramble the Dreadnought |
Rip Minner
Gallente
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.10 16:25:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Rip Minner on 10/01/2011 16:27:40
Originally by: Rented
More Rented math proving that Sig_Res and Tracking are capable of being inverted and still ZERO prof that the game accualy inverts them. Still ZERO prof that ewar or tracking mods or skills or ship bounces directly change Sig_Res in any way in game.
There I fixed that for ya Rented.
You have proven beyond any doute in my mind. Not that I did not already know that Sig_Res and Tracking are capable of being inverted.
Is it a rock? Point a Lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship? Point a Lazer at it and profit. I dont realy see any differnces here. |
Rented
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Posted - 2011.01.11 00:55:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Rented on 11/01/2011 01:00:10
Originally by: Rip Minner
Edited by: Rip Minner on 10/01/2011 16:27:40
Originally by: Rented
More Rented math proving that Sig_Res and Tracking are capable of being inverted and still ZERO prof that the game accualy inverts them. Still ZERO prof that ewar or tracking mods or skills or ship bounces directly change Sig_Res in any way in game.
There I fixed that for ya Rented.
You have proven beyond any doute in my mind. Not that I did not already know that Sig_Res and Tracking are capable of being inverted.
Interestingly enough the game does invert tracking, by definition, as part of the hit chance equation; so not only are they capable of being inversely linked, they very clearly already are. I rather suspect you don't even know what inverted means... Maybe if I used crayon-drawings to explain you could understand, but I doubt it. I do however find it moderately amusing that you don't seem to understand that the only purpose tracking has is existing in the hit chance equation, and serves no other purpose in the game; thus you somehow believe that tracking modifications are somehow magically not directly reflected in the hit chance equation. You don't even seem to understand the concept of operations on equations.
However, sadly you're now rapidly approaching boring. I had hoped you could actually perform some math to show your erroneous point of view so that I might be amused by it, but it seems even a display of very bad math is beyond you. You seem only capable of misquoting my posts and filling them with your horribly undereducated arguments and syntax.
Too much ignorant drivel to continue, goodbye.
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Rip Minner
Gallente
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.11 05:27:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Rip Minner on 11/01/2011 05:33:59
Originally by: Rented
However, sadly you're now rapidly approaching boring. I had hoped you could actually perform some math to show your erroneous point of view so that I might be amused by it
Math for Rented's amusement.
OP me Says that 20% inc to base tracking and 10% reduction to Sig_Res is not the same thing as 33% inc to base tracking.
Originally by: Rented
I bolded the part of the hit chance equation that is ACTUALLY effected by tracking mods (aka- stacks with):
Hit chance = ((1/2)^(((Transv/(Range*Tracking))*(Sig_Res/Sig_Rad))^2) +((max(0,Range-Optimal))/Falloff)^2))
This much we both agee on.((Transv/(Range*Tracking))*(Sig_Res/Sig_Rad))
Weapon is going to be a 425mm Rail Tech 1.
Normal 425mm Rail Tech 1 0.009625 Tracking Sig_Res 400mm
Rented's 425mm Rail Tech 1 0.01280125 Tracking Sig_Res 400mm
Rip's 425mm Rail Tech 1 0.01155 Tracking Sig_Res 360mm
Now plz keep in mind that Rented is right in what he is saying. If we were to plug this weapons as they are into that To Hit formla My purposed changes would be close to a 31%-33% Hit inc.
Now lets put a Tech 2 Tracking Comp on this weapons. Thats a 30% inc to tracking. Can anyone (cough Rented cough) tell me what weapon is going to gain the greatest benfit from the Tech 2 Tracking Comp. (cough Rented cough)
Hint: The weapon with the highest tracking is going to gain the greatest benfit from % inc.
Is it a rock? Point a Lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship? Point a Lazer at it and profit. I dont realy see any differnces here. |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2011.01.11 12:18:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Rip Minner, edited for clarity
I say that 20% increase to base tracking and 10% reduction to Sig_Res is different to a 33% increase to base tracking. Rented says that they are identical.
You are wrong, Rented is right.
Proof:
Tracking is: ((Transv/(Range*Tracking))*(Sig_Res/Sig_Rad))
Let:
Transversal = 100 m/s
Range = 10000 m
Sig radius = 250 m
1. Comparison of 20% increase to base tracking and 10% reduction to Sig_Res to a 33% increase to base tracking.
Normal Rail: sig res 400 m, tracking 0.009625
Rip Miner's Rail (20% more tracking, 10% smaller sig res) : sig res 360 m, tracking 0.01155
Rented's Rail (33% more tracking): sig res 400 m, tracking 0.012833
Tracking equation result:
Normal Rail: 16.62338
Rip Miner's Rail: 12.46753
Rented's Rail: 12.46753
Conclusion: Identical results for Rip and Rented. Therefore, 20% increase to base tracking and 10% reduction to Sig_Res is identical to a 33% increase to base tracking.
2. Now add a 30% tracking computer:
Rip Miner's Rail (20% more tracking, 10% smaller sig res) : sig res 360 m, tracking 0.01502
Rented's Rail (33% more tracking): sig res 400 m, tracking 0.01668
Tracking equation result:
Rip Miner's Rail: 9.59041
Rented's Rail: 9.59041
Conclusion:
Adding a tracking computer increases the tracking of both weapons by the same amount.
3. Remove the 30% tracking computer, add a 30% target painter. Target sig is now 250 * 1.3 = 325 m
Rip Miner's Rail (20% more tracking, 10% smaller sig res) : sig res 360 m, tracking 0.01155
Rented's Rail (33% more tracking): sig res 400 m, tracking 0.012833
Tracking equation result:
Rip Miner's Rail: 9.59041
Rented's Rail: 9.59041
Conclusion: a 30% painter gives the same tracking bonus as a 30% tracking computer.
QED.
Rip - you cannot separate mathematically a value of "tracking" from the quotient of [Sig Res]/[Sig radius]. They are multiplied by each other, therefore any factor acting on "tracking" also acts on the quotient of [Sig Res]/[Sig radius] - and vice versa.
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Rip Minner
Gallente
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.12 06:20:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Rip Minner on 12/01/2011 06:21:15
I must say I a sorry to Rented. I was wrong on the way that would work out. As a side note it would have also inc. damg on smaller ships too. I am suprized that did not come up as well. lol
I think you for helping me to better understand Turrent weapons.
Is it a rock? Point a Lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship? Point a Lazer at it and profit. I dont realy see any differnces here. |
Reaver Glitterstim
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Posted - 2011.01.12 09:10:00 -
[67]
I think the reason hybrids keep slipping by unchanged is that the Caldari ships do fine with missiles and the Gallente ships do fine with drones. That puts the pure hybrid ships mostly or completely out of business.
An easy fix: boost the hybrid weapon bonuses on ships that rely heavily on them.
A balanced fix: listen to a lot of the player ideas here about fixing them and come up with a new setup that puts them right alongside other weapon types. And then to balance things out, make sure that the drone and missile ships that can use hybrids don't become overpowered because of it. Possibly remove a turret hardpoint from most drone boats, and missile ships are probably fine since they don't have hybrid bonuses anyway.
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