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Khaldorn Murino
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Posted - 2005.01.20 16:53:00 -
[1]
Right, its a consensus that Matari ships just arent up to scratch, and there doesnt look to be much of a solution to it at the moment. So, as KhanJohn just mentioned to me, there could be one simple solution, if not very popular:
Make them cheaper.
I know, i know. No one wants Matari ships to be like they are described in the background as much as i do, beleive me. Id love a fast hard hitting ship. You can keep your defences, just make extra speed thats worthwhile and give me guns that hit hard at speed.
But, i dont think its going to happen lads. We are the eternal underdogs. So would it simply just make sense to give up our eternal struggle for a ship that does something great, and just make them cheaper?
What do you say?
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"Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally." - Unknown Warrior
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fras
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Posted - 2005.01.20 16:57:00 -
[2]
errr
remind me, which ships are matari ships? 
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Abomination
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Posted - 2005.01.20 17:04:00 -
[3]
minmatar ships aren't bad, its just they all have bonuses for projectile guns |
Redwolf
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Posted - 2005.01.20 17:04:00 -
[4]
arent they already cheaper than all the others?
at least it seems so for t2 ships....
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wappy
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Posted - 2005.01.20 17:16:00 -
[5]
its not only matari ships that are below standarts at the moment gallente ships have lots of problems to.
both races really need a loving dev that looks at them and give them something because i dont think nerfing caldari or ammar is the way to go as the current situation has been created by nerfing over and over again
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Weirda
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Posted - 2005.01.20 17:17:00 -
[6]
Weirda don't know what the Hell you talking about.
Matari ship DO require more skill to fly effectively - but they already are cheaper... either way... Still don't know what this statement you make is about... 
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Thread Killer
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Rexy
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Posted - 2005.01.20 17:20:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Rexy on 20/01/2005 17:19:58
err typhoon is the most expensive tier1 to build due to more high end minerals are needed for one. dunno about the tempest, but demand probably has to do with it as well ;)
All i want for cristmas is a typhoon with launcher rof bonus :) |
TIO 101
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Posted - 2005.01.20 17:32:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: wappy
its not only matari ships that are below standarts at the moment gallente ships have lots of problems to.
i dunno, but im sure the velator wtfpwns any other nubeship out there.
velator 4tw \o/
h4xb4n
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Baron Puchenkov
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Posted - 2005.01.20 17:54:00 -
[9]
Originally by: fras
errr
remind me, which ships are matari ships?
The ones that look like they're made out of rubbish bolted together
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Charles Yeager
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Posted - 2005.01.20 17:58:00 -
[10]
I think the initial post in this topic is too general. Matari frigates and cruisers can be superior or on equal footing with their non-matari counterparts. I believe the problem is solely limited to battleships. |
Charles Yeager
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Posted - 2005.01.20 18:02:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Redwolf
arent they already cheaper than all the others?
at least it seems so for t2 ships....
Actually, the Typhoon costs more to build than its teir 1 BS counterparts, including the Armageddon. |
Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2005.01.20 18:06:00 -
[12]
what is a matari ship?
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
MadGaz
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Posted - 2005.01.20 18:10:00 -
[13]
Typhoons cost a bomb to buy 
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Siddy
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Posted - 2005.01.20 18:52:00 -
[14]
its not that matari and galentte ships are bad.. on paper, but minmatar weponsystems sucks coxs - and dont whine they dont use cap and doo all kind of funky dmg, caldaris do that to
and Galentee wepons that take more cap than lasers on amarr ships
Amarr and caldari are bit to ³berish atm
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Seraph Demon
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Posted - 2005.01.20 20:01:00 -
[15]
From what I've gathered, the reason Projectiles cannot be made more effective is because they can be used on ships that don't have the defensive weakness that matari ships have. Imagine if an armor-tanked megathron could use 800s instead of Ions to get that massive DMG output without any cap hit at all.
Point is this, if projectiles in general have to suck, so be it, but since minmatar ships are defensively weak, and low on cap, they need to have weapons that get the job done. So Instead of boosting projectiles (as CCP Hammer would like to have done) increase the bonuses granted to projectiles by minmatar ships. That way, minnie ships will approach usefulness when outfitted correctly, and projectiles won't be wtfpwn weapons on other ships who have the cap to pay for the damage they want to do.
OT: Also, I don't think any weapon should cost more cap to fire than a laser, under any circumstances. It's all well and good that Amarr ships get a bonus to laser cap usage (such as they were designed to use lasers), but even then it should only bring them on par with the next most expensive weapons (blasters) not below.
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Shirei
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Posted - 2005.01.20 20:09:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Seraph Demon
From what I've gathered, the reason Projectiles cannot be made more effective is because they can be used on ships that don't have the defensive weakness that matari ships have. Imagine if an armor-tanked megathron could use 800s instead of Ions to get that massive DMG output without any cap hit at all.
That 'massive' damage output wouldn't be that massive anymore if you notice that a Megathron would lose out on the ~50% DoT bonus a Tempest would provide.
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Imhotep Khem
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Posted - 2005.01.20 20:14:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Seraph Demon
From what I've gathered, the reason Projectiles cannot be made more effective is because they can be used on ships that don't have the defensive weakness that matari ships have. Imagine if an armor-tanked megathron could use 800s instead of Ions to get that massive DMG output without any cap hit at all.
That is a fallacy. Each ship AFAIK has at least 1 gun bonus. This is what keeps the projectiles off the apocs. Even if you boost the projectiles (Thanks CCP Hammer  ) they still won't work as good on a apoc as lasers will when you consider the ship bonus.
Originally by: Seraph Demon
Point is this, if projectiles in general have to suck, so be it, but since minmatar ships are defensively weak, and low on cap, they need to have weapons that get the job done. So Instead of boosting projectiles (as CCP Hammer would like to have done) increase the bonuses granted to projectiles by minmatar ships...
Why not both? Which is what I think we are headed for after the CCP Hammer blessing is upon us.
Originally by: Seraph Demon
OT: Also, I don't think any weapon should cost more cap to fire than a laser, under any circumstances. It's all well and good that Amarr ships get a bonus to laser cap usage (such as they were designed to use lasers), but even then it should only bring them on par with the next most expensive weapons (blasters) not below.
Granted.
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If your not dyin' your not tryin'. |
Vicker Lahn'se
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Posted - 2005.01.20 20:14:00 -
[18]
Originally by: fras
errr
remind me, which ships are matari ships?
Originally by: Jim Raynor
what is a matari ship?
Don't you people play this game? At all? How the heck do you not know who the Matari are? That's like being a soldier in World War II and not knowing which country Brits are from.
Let's think this through. "Matari" -- People from Matar. Add three letters to the front of that.
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.01.20 21:12:00 -
[19]
Why did you guys choose a slave race btw. What were you expecting You're lucky they managed to build a bs.
j/k
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2005.01.20 21:40:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Vicker Lahn'se
Originally by: fras
errr
remind me, which ships are matari ships?
Originally by: Jim Raynor
what is a matari ship?
Don't you people play this game? At all? How the heck do you not know who the Matari are? That's like being a soldier in World War II and not knowing which country Brits are from.
Let's think this through. "Matari" -- People from Matar. Add three letters to the front of that.
Last time I checked, they were the Minmatar.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Karl Staf
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Posted - 2005.01.20 21:42:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Karl Staf on 20/01/2005 22:18:40
the term matari is used in the backstory to i bellive.. and it not that harde to understand what it means anyway, so can ppl stop trolling and get back on topic again?
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http://blades.stylii.com |
Selim
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Posted - 2005.01.20 22:15:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Meridius
Why did you guys choose a slave race btw. What were you expecting You're lucky they managed to build a bs.
j/k
Well, the the tempest is obviously a... damn, can't think of anything witty to say.
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Incub
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Posted - 2005.01.20 22:34:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Incub on 20/01/2005 22:35:49
Well Both ships looks like they were made in Scrapheap challenge :p
here lies some junk
here is some ducktape,
now go entertain yourself :p
anyway besides that, the whole minmatar philosophy is kinda flawed :S
speed<-->tracking
No cap use guns<-->no good tank possible
minmatar usually have the lightest ships<-->minnie interceptors are both in the top3 of the heaviest interceptors.
instead of having a "Real" bonus, it always backfires on us.
on a side node, so is the gallente with their Megathron with its puny cap and cap Sucking guns
anyway just to stay on topic, why make the minnie BS's cheaper? you think people would fly them then :P
250's are definitely more versatile, but All the cool kids are using 280's. |
Tar Kovsky
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Posted - 2005.01.21 00:44:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Incub
anyway just to stay on topic, why make the minnie BS's cheaper? you think people would fly them then :P
Well, it would make it more affordable to replace them given how often they get wtfpwnd 
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Khaldorn Murino
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Posted - 2005.01.21 10:19:00 -
[25]
Lordy lordy. I swear some of you lads just cruise the forums looking for people you can try to shoot down in flames.
Behave.
Anyway, well i was thinking about all the minmatar ships. Everyone seems to be enamoured with BS's. Gentleman, while battleships may be fine for you gimps, the crusiers and frigates is where the fun is at.
It was just a suggestion, now before you try to reply with the leetest flame your mind can imagine, take a deeeeeep breath.
There we go, isnt that better? ;)
P.S. And our duct tape rocks. Dont know how many times it's saved my ship from falling apart, do dont diss it
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"Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally." - Unknown Warrior
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Slithereen
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Posted - 2005.01.21 10:38:00 -
[26]
They also need to work on the "Matari" avatar portraits too as they really look ugly.
_______________________________________________
"Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies,
"Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy.
"Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
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Gaius Kador
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Posted - 2005.01.21 11:06:00 -
[27]
Dude, what happened to your hair o.O
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Rodj Blake
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Posted - 2005.01.21 11:47:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Gaius Kador
Dude, what happened to your hair o.O
Maybe he shaved it off to look more like his hero, Adm Golan Trevize...
Dolce et decorum est pro imperator mori |
Khaldorn Murino
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Posted - 2005.01.21 12:00:00 -
[29]
lol,
in a fit of misguided youth, i shaved my precious dreads off. That was about 4 months ago tho.
Rejoice bald brothers. For i am here.
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"Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally." - Unknown Warrior
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Sassi
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Posted - 2005.01.21 12:32:00 -
[30]
I really hate getting into this "Devs are favoring this race over others" but judging from the stats it does has a little truth in it, just a tiny bit of truth.
At the moment the Caldari and Amarr don¦t have any problems with their ships.
The people that are complaining about not being able to fit this and that on their Raven or Arma just arent skilled enough or have a totally wrong setup.
But with....at least the Minmatar....you really really cant always fit what ought to be fitted.
Also the matari never get a one good tanking aspect, like having uber shield to shield tank or lots of armor to armor tank.
Its all so equal, which I think actually is very good cuz you can try out both and see whats fits you tanking skills.
But they never get enough of anything so they could really be "superior" in one specific area, while other races get a very obvious role, the raven; shield tank & Apoc; armor tank ..etc.
....Im not complaining cuz it wont help changing anything, just saying :)
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