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Wot I Think
State War Academy Caldari State
13
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Posted - 2011.09.25 21:54:00 -
[1] - Quote
So why won't anyone train Battleships?
Twenty plus new pilots, not a single one of them is willing to train battleships.
"I am gonna fly a Tengu" "I would rather just fly frigates" "I personally am just gonna do logistics" "I want a freighter" "Have Nighthawk, don't need a battleship" "Sleipnir does everything" "I don't fly battleships" "I would train it but I need to get my elite certificates" "I would rather fly a Hulk" "I am not in your corp" "I think a Sac would be better than a battleship, no?" "All I need is my Drake" "I fly the drake thats like a battleship" "If Jeff is gonna fly a Drake so am I" "Battleships are too slow" "MWD + Slasher, nuff said" "I have Caldari Battleship, why do I need another BS?" "Only reason to train battleships is for carriers and I will never use one" "It is suicide to fly a battleship outside of high-sec" "I won't fly a battleship, cause I pay $15 a month, and you can't tell me what to train" "In all seriousness... you can eat a bag of dicks" "I won't train it, cause I don't want to train it"
What is the magic hammer argument for "Train a battleship so we can kill POS you dumb mother frackers?" It would be so cool to have 20 people in Amarr battleships blasting POS to goo, but nobody will train.
I give up
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Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
68
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Posted - 2011.09.25 21:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
Tell them 20 Mealstroms would instapop most of the other subcap ships they would have wanted to train? Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
264
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Posted - 2011.09.25 22:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
Well once the guy who thinks a Sac will be better than a BS, no? learns his lesson, you'll have at least 1 convert. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Steph Wing
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
42
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Posted - 2011.09.25 22:10:00 -
[4] - Quote
The basic argument is that CERTAIN NEW PLAYERS put more stock in what EFT says is a bigger number than what actually flies, and are very very quick to dismiss the advice and experience of pilots who've been around long enough to know what's the better option. Reminding said people of this fact is the simplest thing to do. No need to be an ass, just gently remind them that, actually, you've been playing this game longer than they have, and you probably have a better idea of what's a good idea.
Specific counterpoints:
"I am gonna fly a Tengu"
Learn to actually PvP before you fly around a ship that costs a billion ISK to fiy properly. Alternatively, carebear.
"I would rather just fly frigates"
Admirable, actually. Train for battleships when you've maxed out frigate skills.
"I personally am just gonna do logistics"
Uh...wow? People actually want to fly logistics? Sounds like an ace pilot to me.
"I want a freighter"
Carebear.
"Have Nighthawk, don't need a battleship"
EFT more.
"Sleipnir does everything"
EFT more.
"I don't fly battleships"
Well what do you fly?
"I would train it but I need to get my elite certificates"
lol
"I would rather fly a Hulk"
Carebear.
"I am not in your corp"
I'm assuming this is an alliancemate? Talk to CEO?
"I think a Sac would be better than a battleship, no?"
EFT more.
"All I need is my Drake"
Is it a nanodrake? If it isn't, then EFT more.
"I fly the drake thats like a battleship"
EFT more.
"If Jeff is gonna fly a Drake so am I"
Jeff probably isn't the ranking FC in this conversation.
"Battleships are too slow"
Battleships aren't meant to be fast.
"MWD + Slasher, nuff said"
Kick from corp.
"I have Caldari Battleship, why do I need another BS?"
Torp ravens aren't terrible for POS bashes are they? I honestly don't know, the only caldari battleship I touch is the scorp.
"Only reason to train battleships is for carriers and I will never use one"
You've trained for them, might as well use them if the FC says to.
"It is suicide to fly a battleship outside of high-sec"
lol no
"I won't fly a battleship, cause I pay $15 a month, and you can't tell me what to train"
Kick from corp.
"In all seriousness... you can eat a bag of dicks"
Kick from corp.
"I won't train it, cause I don't want to train it"
Kick from corp.
I don't mean to tell you how to run your show, but to me this sounds largely like a discipline problem with your new pilots. The remainder just don't know any better, and a bit of time actually flying in space will learn them good. Or they'll refuse to join fleet ops because their ship is arse, and then you can call them on not pulling their weight. |
Renan Ruivo
Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance
17
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Posted - 2011.09.25 22:29:00 -
[5] - Quote
When i started EVE all those years ago, a battleship was pretty much what everyone wanted..
These kids nowadays..... |
Mister Smithington
Vis Vires War and Pestilence
0
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Posted - 2011.09.25 22:31:00 -
[6] - Quote
Wot I Think wrote:new pilots Found your problem.
I probably went through the majority of those mindsets at one point or another during the early days of my Eve career. I think one of the defining make-or-break moments in every pilot's life is when he gives up on the dreams he had as a newbie. Whether it was "well it turns out assault frigates actually suck ****, so I'm going to stop buying Retributions," or "Wow, an Erebus is a lot further away than I thought," we've all had those moments. Give 'em some time, they'll come around.
Also keep in mind that even though Amarrian battleships are awesome, they don't perform as well as you'd hope when the pilot only has 3 mil sp. As long as they're training important core skills, it's all good. They'll get to battle ships eventually. |
DeliciousHamBeast
The Concilium Enterprises Spectrum Alliance
78
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Posted - 2011.09.25 22:49:00 -
[7] - Quote
I'm in a battleship right now, and it is excellent. -- Pity me not, but lend thy serious hearing to what I shall unfold. |
Name Family Name
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
30
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Posted - 2011.09.25 22:51:00 -
[8] - Quote
Renan Ruivo wrote:When i started EVE all those years ago, a battleship was pretty much what everyone wanted..
These kids nowadays.....
Exactly my thought - where have the times gone when people rushed towards battleships, flew them as soon as they could barely sit in them and lost them in hilarious ways - with small modules fitted?
Having that said, I wouldn't call them EFT warriors. An EFT warrior would rather go for a BS as the numbers for DPS, tank etc... are higher for a BS on paper and most newbs typically neglect large guns bad tracking, sig resolution, BS sig radius etc...
The fact that only rigging a BS costs as much as losing an entirely fitted BC may play a role, but otoh, you have tengu and sac-guy...
Although I'm quite surprised to see so many newbs not willing to fly BS, I think BS could use a little love - especially compared to Tier 2 BCs.
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Mr M
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
28
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Posted - 2011.09.25 22:58:00 -
[9] - Quote
Wot I Think wrote: "I personally am just gonna do logistics" "MWD + Slasher, nuff said" "In all seriousness... you can eat a bag of dicks"
I'd join a corp with these three.
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Taedrin
Kushan Industrial
19
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Posted - 2011.09.25 23:57:00 -
[10] - Quote
Because Battleships are not good for much more than gank 'n tank, scorpions excluded. They are meant to be used in fleet engagements which have unfortunately become dominated by super caps. Basically, Battleships are obsolete in today's New Eden. |
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Mina Sebiestar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
6
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Posted - 2011.09.25 23:59:00 -
[11] - Quote
noob with not much than 3 mil sp are in NM running incursions making billions dont see why your noobs cant do the same.
pathetic just how pathetic this game becoming. |
Mehrdad Kor-Azor
Iure Divino
40
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Posted - 2011.09.26 00:04:00 -
[12] - Quote
I remember when I first started in '07 people were always rushing into Battleships, and usually failing because they never trained any core skills. They would never aim for anything else.
Times have changed... |
Paragon Renegade
The Multinational Company. Somnium Romanum
0
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Posted - 2011.09.26 00:05:00 -
[13] - Quote
Mina Sebiestar wrote:noob with not much than 3 mil sp are in NM running incursions making billions dont see why your noobs cant do the same.
pathetic just how pathetic this game becoming.
I don't even understand what you said to be honest. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
206
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Posted - 2011.09.26 00:12:00 -
[14] - Quote
Steph Wing wrote:"Battleships are too slow" Battleships aren't meant to be fast. Since this has basically my reasoning for the last three yearsGǪ
GǪso? Why fly (much less train for) something you don't enjoy the feeling of? There are plenty of roles to be had (in fact, the vast majority in the game) from the sub-BS ships, all of which are pretty much universally needed.
So it doesn't really sound like you're offering much of a counter-argument to this. Is this because you see it as a valid reason or because you couldn't be arsed to develop your response more thoroughly? GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Name Family Name
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
30
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Posted - 2011.09.26 00:15:00 -
[15] - Quote
Paragon Renegade wrote:Mina Sebiestar wrote:noob with not much than 3 mil sp are in NM running incursions making billions dont see why your noobs cant do the same.
pathetic just how pathetic this game becoming. I don't even understand what you said to be honest.
He said he's a noob with 3 mill SP flying a nightmare in incursions and making billions of isk.
Guess it actually works because nobody realizes he barely does any damage and he has countless logistics repping him in case he gets primaried. |
Steph Wing
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
45
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Posted - 2011.09.26 00:20:00 -
[16] - Quote
Tippia wrote:GǪso? Why fly (much less train for) something you don't enjoy the feeling of? There are plenty of roles to be had (in fact, the vast majority in the game) from the sub-BS ships, all of which are pretty much universally needed.
So it doesn't really sound like you're offering much of a counter-argument to this. Is this because you see it as a valid reason or because you couldn't be arsed to develop your response more thoroughly?
the latter tbh
But you're absolutely right in that there's no point training for something you don't enjoy. And I'm sure you'll agree that, in an organized pvp-focused corp/alliance there's no point in keeping pilots around who don't pull their weight. v0v |
Gealbhan
GealCorp
0
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Posted - 2011.09.26 00:23:00 -
[17] - Quote
<------ Amarr Battleship: III
Caldari Battleship: V
Gallente Battleship: III
Mimmatar Battleship: III
I've considered rounding the three of those to V, just hav other priorities atm.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
207
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Posted - 2011.09.26 00:23:00 -
[18] - Quote
Steph Wing wrote:And I'm sure you'll agree that, in an organized pvp-focused corp/alliance there's no point in keeping pilots around who don't pull their weight. v0v Yes. Which has next to nothing to do with training battleships. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
mkint
59
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Posted - 2011.09.26 00:27:00 -
[19] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Steph Wing wrote:"Battleships are too slow" Battleships aren't meant to be fast. Since this has basically my reasoning for the last three yearsGǪ GǪso? Why fly (much less train for) something you don't enjoy the feeling of? There are plenty of roles to be had (in fact, the vast majority in the game) from the sub-BS ships, all of which are pretty much universally needed. So it doesn't really sound like you're offering much of a counter-argument to this. Is this because you see it as a valid reason or because you couldn't be arsed to develop your response more thoroughly? What I get out of this thread was that the corp/alliance needed a POS bash fleet, but nobody would even train battleships to get the job done. When asked, "speed" was a reason why they wouldn't train one, which for a POS bash is a flat out stupid excuse.
In my corp/alliance we would encourage people to train for a basic battleship with basic fittings for help in POS bashes, even if they don't intend to fly it very often, or even if they prefer mining. Not everyone will train it, but enough people will to generate the fun stories that will get more to train it. Some people will never train it, but I don't let that bother me, because I don't pay my subs every month to be a babysitter. |
Name Family Name
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
30
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Posted - 2011.09.26 00:28:00 -
[20] - Quote
Steph Wing wrote:
But you're absolutely right in that there's no point training for something you don't enjoy. And I'm sure you'll agree that, in an organized pvp-focused corp/alliance there's no point in keeping pilots around who don't pull their weight. v0v
That coming from a member of one of the leading alliances in a coalition that used to be famous for its topsy-turvy rabble fleets is actually quite funny - but yeah - people might change... |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
207
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Posted - 2011.09.26 00:38:00 -
[21] - Quote
mkint wrote:What I get out of this thread was that the corp/alliance needed a POS bash fleet, but nobody would even train battleships to get the job done. When asked, "speed" was a reason why they wouldn't train one, which for a POS bash is a flat out stupid excuse. GǪbut you don't train ships for a single fleet. That rather sounds like they're picking tasks that they are not equipped for, or that they are not recruiting for the tasks they are (or are intent on) going on.
You're mixing two different things here. Not wanting to train BS because they're big and slow is a separate matter from picking a ship for one particular outing. So, yes, battleships are not meant to be fast GÇö so why is GÇ£they're slowGÇ¥ a bad argument for not training them? It rather sounds like a validation of that argument. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Gul Amarr
Orange County Cruisers
0
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Posted - 2011.09.26 00:42:00 -
[22] - Quote
Maybe they just don't train BS to avoid having to take part in POS bashes? |
Hicksimus
Mom's Friendly Spaceship Company
44
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Posted - 2011.09.26 01:25:00 -
[23] - Quote
I'll try to keep this short.
What you found are 20 people that realize the battleship is something you fly if you are one of those big alliance lemmings that likes to fly large ships so people further up the chain can make a massive profit with little to no trickle down.
When they all come bash that pos will they each receive an equal split of moon material production there? Will they each have the option to use 11 lab slots for their 80 days of training they spent on you and countless hours doing the most boring thing in EvE?
Probably not, next problem.
True combat players care about Gate camps, Roaming and Efficiency.
- Battleships are too slow and can't covert cloak you won't get to jump anybody who's near their keyboard. - When the AAA kitchen sink fleet is derping its way towards you and their scout jumps in if you are in a smaller ship your chances of escape are hugely better than if you have a 10+ second alignment ahead of you - 4 Battlecruisers rigged and T2 fit cost about as much as 1 Tier 2 BS fit and rigged, but they stand a hugely better chance of escape, they are a cheaper loss and others have less chance of escaping you.
So now some people think heh, Hicksimus, what if I truly enjoy blobbing in Abaddons that I pay for so that others may reap a huge profit? Step back and think how you'd feel in real life as a slave for billionaires being paid $0 and not even fed. You're a troll nobody lets other people do that to them. If your giant alliance didn't hold space you'd be in a smaller corp capable of holding the same small spot you call home and you'd be making more isk.
That was mostly for the OP, I realize that some people get them for Marauders for PvE and Capital ships(like I have) and some people just like to feel big, but people like the OP are just trying to ruin good players for profit. |
Large Collidable Object
morons.
252
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Posted - 2011.09.26 01:34:00 -
[24] - Quote
Kick those willing to train for a BS because you told them and you'll end up with a corp not full of mindless, blobbing sheep(although I somewhat doubt that's the OPs intent). morons-áare recruiting. We're good at breeding! |
Steph Wing
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
46
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Posted - 2011.09.26 02:04:00 -
[25] - Quote
Name Family Name wrote: That coming from a member of one of the leading alliances in a coalition that used to be famous for its topsy-turvy rabble fleets is actually quite funny - but yeah - people might change...
Yeah, I know right? I assure you the irony was not lost on me. :D
Anyway, let's see if we can do without the chest-beating of who's part of which alliance bloc. That's what CAOD is for. |
Neuntausend
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2011.09.26 02:59:00 -
[26] - Quote
Gul Amarr wrote:Maybe they just don't train BS to avoid having to take part in POS bashes?
wisely spoken. if this game was pos-bashing only, i probably would be willing to pay 15 bucks for not having to play it.
and then there is the problem, that battleships just lack the versatility that cruiser/battlecruiser-sized ships have. plus - while their use is very limited, compared to medium sized ships, they take a lot longer to train for.
train your advanced medium guns and your race's cruisers, both being x5 skills and you have a good basis for battlecruisers, heavy assault ships, some of the recons and hictors, nice faction cruisers like the cynabal, tech 3 cruisers and even badass in-your-face-command ships further along the line, with recon, hac and battlecruisers each being only a x6 skill. and even a well trained battlecruiser alone is more versatile than a battleship, let alone the lower price.
for battleship you'd have to skill large guns and your races battleships, both being x8 skills, and you get exactly that: battleships with large guns - not more, not less. and if you are not interested in cap ships, marauders or black ops, those skills are a dead end for you. and i lets face it - both caps and t2 battleships aren't very attractive at the moment. with cap ships it is pretty much the same as with the battleships, if not even worse: very limited use, slow, longer time to skill. and the tech 2 battleships .... well, the one is for carebearing and the other for ninjajumping your fleet around. and while i admit, that the latter one is awesome, for most of the pilots just this single use of a ship is not worth the time it takes, to skill for it.
if flying around in huge bricks, that can't hit anything smaller than an average walmart with parking lot, and even that only when it's not moving is what you want to do - go for it! and if you enjoy shooting huge stationary targets, please feel free to do so. but understand, that most players may choose to dedicate their gametime to more fun and interesting activities.
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Headerman
Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx
107
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Posted - 2011.09.26 03:00:00 -
[27] - Quote
<-- Minmatar BS 5, Caldari BS 5, Gallente BS 5, Amarr BS 5.
I like my BSs.
And as for gate camps, who do you think would win, a dozen Tempests/Geddons, or a dozen BCs? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
209
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Posted - 2011.09.26 03:04:00 -
[28] - Quote
Just to go OT for a momentGǪNeuntausend wrote:GǪthat can't hit anything smaller than an average walmart with parking lot, and even that only when it's not movingGǪ GǪat 400m sig res, that's a stunningly good (and reasonably accurate) description of how battleship-sized guns perform. I'm going to steal that for future reference.
GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Neuntausend
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2011.09.26 03:16:00 -
[29] - Quote
Headerman wrote:And as for gate camps, who do you think would win, a dozen Tempests/Geddons, or a dozen BCs?
probably the bcs, as they are locking faster, tracking better and are quicker at running once the locals formed up and the **** starts hitting the fan.
i am not saying that battleships are bad, and that you can't use them for anything besides pos bashing. but most of the time they won't perform much better than a bunch of battlecruisers and t2 cruisers. they have their uses, but they simply aren't worth it for the average player.
with the cruiser skills being x5 and x6 and being at least partially required for battleships, you can skill cruisers, advanced medium guns and 1 or 2 of the battlecruisers/advanced cruisers to V in the same time it would take you to skill large t2 guns and battleships to V. and seing what range of ships you can fly with those skills and the skills you get access to makes the decision easy for many players.
Gé¼dit: the battleships might be more interesting, if there were more specialized versions of them, like bs-sized counterparts of the t2- and t3 cruisers. but there aren't any, and to be honest: i don't think, that eve is in desperate need for yet another class of ships just for the sake of keeping the players interested in battleships. |
Neuntausend
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2011.09.26 03:23:00 -
[30] - Quote
edit-fail |
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