Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page] |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |

Wot I Think
State War Academy Caldari State
13
|
Posted - 2011.09.25 21:54:00 -
[1] - Quote
So why won't anyone train Battleships?
Twenty plus new pilots, not a single one of them is willing to train battleships.
"I am gonna fly a Tengu" "I would rather just fly frigates" "I personally am just gonna do logistics" "I want a freighter" "Have Nighthawk, don't need a battleship" "Sleipnir does everything" "I don't fly battleships" "I would train it but I need to get my elite certificates" "I would rather fly a Hulk" "I am not in your corp" "I think a Sac would be better than a battleship, no?" "All I need is my Drake" "I fly the drake thats like a battleship" "If Jeff is gonna fly a Drake so am I" "Battleships are too slow" "MWD + Slasher, nuff said" "I have Caldari Battleship, why do I need another BS?" "Only reason to train battleships is for carriers and I will never use one" "It is suicide to fly a battleship outside of high-sec" "I won't fly a battleship, cause I pay $15 a month, and you can't tell me what to train" "In all seriousness... you can eat a bag of dicks" "I won't train it, cause I don't want to train it"
What is the magic hammer argument for "Train a battleship so we can kill POS you dumb mother frackers?" It would be so cool to have 20 people in Amarr battleships blasting POS to goo, but nobody will train.
I give up 
|

Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
68
|
Posted - 2011.09.25 21:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
Tell them 20 Mealstroms would instapop most of the other subcap ships they would have wanted to train? Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
264
|
Posted - 2011.09.25 22:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
Well once the guy who thinks a Sac will be better than a BS, no? learns his lesson, you'll have at least 1 convert. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |

Steph Wing
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
42
|
Posted - 2011.09.25 22:10:00 -
[4] - Quote
The basic argument is that CERTAIN NEW PLAYERS put more stock in what EFT says is a bigger number than what actually flies, and are very very quick to dismiss the advice and experience of pilots who've been around long enough to know what's the better option. Reminding said people of this fact is the simplest thing to do. No need to be an ass, just gently remind them that, actually, you've been playing this game longer than they have, and you probably have a better idea of what's a good idea.
Specific counterpoints:
"I am gonna fly a Tengu"
Learn to actually PvP before you fly around a ship that costs a billion ISK to fiy properly. Alternatively, carebear.
"I would rather just fly frigates"
Admirable, actually. Train for battleships when you've maxed out frigate skills.
"I personally am just gonna do logistics"
Uh...wow? People actually want to fly logistics? Sounds like an ace pilot to me.
"I want a freighter"
Carebear.
"Have Nighthawk, don't need a battleship"
EFT more.
"Sleipnir does everything"
EFT more.
"I don't fly battleships"
Well what do you fly?
"I would train it but I need to get my elite certificates"
lol
"I would rather fly a Hulk"
Carebear.
"I am not in your corp"
I'm assuming this is an alliancemate? Talk to CEO?
"I think a Sac would be better than a battleship, no?"
EFT more.
"All I need is my Drake"
Is it a nanodrake? If it isn't, then EFT more.
"I fly the drake thats like a battleship"
EFT more.
"If Jeff is gonna fly a Drake so am I"
Jeff probably isn't the ranking FC in this conversation.
"Battleships are too slow"
Battleships aren't meant to be fast.
"MWD + Slasher, nuff said"
Kick from corp.
"I have Caldari Battleship, why do I need another BS?"
Torp ravens aren't terrible for POS bashes are they? I honestly don't know, the only caldari battleship I touch is the scorp.
"Only reason to train battleships is for carriers and I will never use one"
You've trained for them, might as well use them if the FC says to.
"It is suicide to fly a battleship outside of high-sec"
lol no
"I won't fly a battleship, cause I pay $15 a month, and you can't tell me what to train"
Kick from corp.
"In all seriousness... you can eat a bag of dicks"
Kick from corp.
"I won't train it, cause I don't want to train it"
Kick from corp.
I don't mean to tell you how to run your show, but to me this sounds largely like a discipline problem with your new pilots. The remainder just don't know any better, and a bit of time actually flying in space will learn them good. Or they'll refuse to join fleet ops because their ship is arse, and then you can call them on not pulling their weight. |

Renan Ruivo
Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance
17
|
Posted - 2011.09.25 22:29:00 -
[5] - Quote
When i started EVE all those years ago, a battleship was pretty much what everyone wanted..
These kids nowadays..... |

Mister Smithington
Vis Vires War and Pestilence
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.25 22:31:00 -
[6] - Quote
Wot I Think wrote:new pilots Found your problem.
I probably went through the majority of those mindsets at one point or another during the early days of my Eve career. I think one of the defining make-or-break moments in every pilot's life is when he gives up on the dreams he had as a newbie. Whether it was "well it turns out assault frigates actually suck ****, so I'm going to stop buying Retributions," or "Wow, an Erebus is a lot further away than I thought," we've all had those moments. Give 'em some time, they'll come around.
Also keep in mind that even though Amarrian battleships are awesome, they don't perform as well as you'd hope when the pilot only has 3 mil sp. As long as they're training important core skills, it's all good. They'll get to battle ships eventually. |

DeliciousHamBeast
The Concilium Enterprises Spectrum Alliance
78
|
Posted - 2011.09.25 22:49:00 -
[7] - Quote
I'm in a battleship right now, and it is excellent. -- Pity me not, but lend thy serious hearing to what I shall unfold. |

Name Family Name
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
30
|
Posted - 2011.09.25 22:51:00 -
[8] - Quote
Renan Ruivo wrote:When i started EVE all those years ago, a battleship was pretty much what everyone wanted..
These kids nowadays.....
Exactly my thought - where have the times gone when people rushed towards battleships, flew them as soon as they could barely sit in them and lost them in hilarious ways - with small modules fitted?
Having that said, I wouldn't call them EFT warriors. An EFT warrior would rather go for a BS as the numbers for DPS, tank etc... are higher for a BS on paper and most newbs typically neglect large guns bad tracking, sig resolution, BS sig radius etc...
The fact that only rigging a BS costs as much as losing an entirely fitted BC may play a role, but otoh, you have tengu and sac-guy...
Although I'm quite surprised to see so many newbs not willing to fly BS, I think BS could use a little love - especially compared to Tier 2 BCs.
|

Mr M
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
28
|
Posted - 2011.09.25 22:58:00 -
[9] - Quote
Wot I Think wrote: "I personally am just gonna do logistics" "MWD + Slasher, nuff said" "In all seriousness... you can eat a bag of dicks"
I'd join a corp with these three.
|

Taedrin
Kushan Industrial
19
|
Posted - 2011.09.25 23:57:00 -
[10] - Quote
Because Battleships are not good for much more than gank 'n tank, scorpions excluded. They are meant to be used in fleet engagements which have unfortunately become dominated by super caps. Basically, Battleships are obsolete in today's New Eden. |
|

Mina Sebiestar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
6
|
Posted - 2011.09.25 23:59:00 -
[11] - Quote
noob with not much than 3 mil sp are in NM running incursions making billions dont see why your noobs cant do the same.
pathetic just how pathetic this game becoming. |

Mehrdad Kor-Azor
Iure Divino
40
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 00:04:00 -
[12] - Quote
I remember when I first started in '07 people were always rushing into Battleships, and usually failing because they never trained any core skills. They would never aim for anything else.
Times have changed... |

Paragon Renegade
The Multinational Company. Somnium Romanum
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 00:05:00 -
[13] - Quote
Mina Sebiestar wrote:noob with not much than 3 mil sp are in NM running incursions making billions dont see why your noobs cant do the same.
pathetic just how pathetic this game becoming.
I don't even understand what you said to be honest. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
206
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 00:12:00 -
[14] - Quote
Steph Wing wrote:"Battleships are too slow" Battleships aren't meant to be fast. Since this has basically my reasoning for the last three yearsGǪ
GǪso? Why fly (much less train for) something you don't enjoy the feeling of? There are plenty of roles to be had (in fact, the vast majority in the game) from the sub-BS ships, all of which are pretty much universally needed.
So it doesn't really sound like you're offering much of a counter-argument to this. Is this because you see it as a valid reason or because you couldn't be arsed to develop your response more thoroughly? GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |

Name Family Name
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
30
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 00:15:00 -
[15] - Quote
Paragon Renegade wrote:Mina Sebiestar wrote:noob with not much than 3 mil sp are in NM running incursions making billions dont see why your noobs cant do the same.
pathetic just how pathetic this game becoming. I don't even understand what you said to be honest.
He said he's a noob with 3 mill SP flying a nightmare in incursions and making billions of isk.
Guess it actually works because nobody realizes he barely does any damage and he has countless logistics repping him in case he gets primaried. |

Steph Wing
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
45
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 00:20:00 -
[16] - Quote
Tippia wrote:GǪso? Why fly (much less train for) something you don't enjoy the feeling of? There are plenty of roles to be had (in fact, the vast majority in the game) from the sub-BS ships, all of which are pretty much universally needed.
So it doesn't really sound like you're offering much of a counter-argument to this. Is this because you see it as a valid reason or because you couldn't be arsed to develop your response more thoroughly?
the latter tbh
But you're absolutely right in that there's no point training for something you don't enjoy. And I'm sure you'll agree that, in an organized pvp-focused corp/alliance there's no point in keeping pilots around who don't pull their weight. v0v |

Gealbhan
GealCorp
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 00:23:00 -
[17] - Quote
<------ Amarr Battleship: III
Caldari Battleship: V
Gallente Battleship: III
Mimmatar Battleship: III
I've considered rounding the three of those to V, just hav other priorities atm.
|

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
207
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 00:23:00 -
[18] - Quote
Steph Wing wrote:And I'm sure you'll agree that, in an organized pvp-focused corp/alliance there's no point in keeping pilots around who don't pull their weight. v0v Yes. Which has next to nothing to do with training battleships. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |

mkint
59
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 00:27:00 -
[19] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Steph Wing wrote:"Battleships are too slow" Battleships aren't meant to be fast. Since this has basically my reasoning for the last three yearsGǪ GǪso? Why fly (much less train for) something you don't enjoy the feeling of? There are plenty of roles to be had (in fact, the vast majority in the game) from the sub-BS ships, all of which are pretty much universally needed. So it doesn't really sound like you're offering much of a counter-argument to this. Is this because you see it as a valid reason or because you couldn't be arsed to develop your response more thoroughly? What I get out of this thread was that the corp/alliance needed a POS bash fleet, but nobody would even train battleships to get the job done. When asked, "speed" was a reason why they wouldn't train one, which for a POS bash is a flat out stupid excuse.
In my corp/alliance we would encourage people to train for a basic battleship with basic fittings for help in POS bashes, even if they don't intend to fly it very often, or even if they prefer mining. Not everyone will train it, but enough people will to generate the fun stories that will get more to train it. Some people will never train it, but I don't let that bother me, because I don't pay my subs every month to be a babysitter. |

Name Family Name
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
30
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 00:28:00 -
[20] - Quote
Steph Wing wrote:
But you're absolutely right in that there's no point training for something you don't enjoy. And I'm sure you'll agree that, in an organized pvp-focused corp/alliance there's no point in keeping pilots around who don't pull their weight. v0v
That coming from a member of one of the leading alliances in a coalition that used to be famous for its topsy-turvy rabble fleets is actually quite funny - but yeah - people might change... |
|

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
207
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 00:38:00 -
[21] - Quote
mkint wrote:What I get out of this thread was that the corp/alliance needed a POS bash fleet, but nobody would even train battleships to get the job done. When asked, "speed" was a reason why they wouldn't train one, which for a POS bash is a flat out stupid excuse. GǪbut you don't train ships for a single fleet. That rather sounds like they're picking tasks that they are not equipped for, or that they are not recruiting for the tasks they are (or are intent on) going on.
You're mixing two different things here. Not wanting to train BS because they're big and slow is a separate matter from picking a ship for one particular outing. So, yes, battleships are not meant to be fast GÇö so why is GÇ£they're slowGÇ¥ a bad argument for not training them? It rather sounds like a validation of that argument. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |

Gul Amarr
Orange County Cruisers
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 00:42:00 -
[22] - Quote
Maybe they just don't train BS to avoid having to take part in POS bashes? |

Hicksimus
Mom's Friendly Spaceship Company
44
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 01:25:00 -
[23] - Quote
I'll try to keep this short.
What you found are 20 people that realize the battleship is something you fly if you are one of those big alliance lemmings that likes to fly large ships so people further up the chain can make a massive profit with little to no trickle down.
When they all come bash that pos will they each receive an equal split of moon material production there? Will they each have the option to use 11 lab slots for their 80 days of training they spent on you and countless hours doing the most boring thing in EvE?
Probably not, next problem.
True combat players care about Gate camps, Roaming and Efficiency.
- Battleships are too slow and can't covert cloak you won't get to jump anybody who's near their keyboard. - When the AAA kitchen sink fleet is derping its way towards you and their scout jumps in if you are in a smaller ship your chances of escape are hugely better than if you have a 10+ second alignment ahead of you - 4 Battlecruisers rigged and T2 fit cost about as much as 1 Tier 2 BS fit and rigged, but they stand a hugely better chance of escape, they are a cheaper loss and others have less chance of escaping you.
So now some people think heh, Hicksimus, what if I truly enjoy blobbing in Abaddons that I pay for so that others may reap a huge profit? Step back and think how you'd feel in real life as a slave for billionaires being paid $0 and not even fed. You're a troll nobody lets other people do that to them. If your giant alliance didn't hold space you'd be in a smaller corp capable of holding the same small spot you call home and you'd be making more isk.
That was mostly for the OP, I realize that some people get them for Marauders for PvE and Capital ships(like I have) and some people just like to feel big, but people like the OP are just trying to ruin good players for profit. |

Large Collidable Object
morons.
252
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 01:34:00 -
[24] - Quote
Kick those willing to train for a BS because you told them and you'll end up with a corp not full of mindless, blobbing sheep(although I somewhat doubt that's the OPs intent). morons-áare recruiting. We're good at breeding! |

Steph Wing
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
46
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 02:04:00 -
[25] - Quote
Name Family Name wrote: That coming from a member of one of the leading alliances in a coalition that used to be famous for its topsy-turvy rabble fleets is actually quite funny - but yeah - people might change...
Yeah, I know right? I assure you the irony was not lost on me. :D
Anyway, let's see if we can do without the chest-beating of who's part of which alliance bloc. That's what CAOD is for. |

Neuntausend
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 02:59:00 -
[26] - Quote
Gul Amarr wrote:Maybe they just don't train BS to avoid having to take part in POS bashes?
wisely spoken. if this game was pos-bashing only, i probably would be willing to pay 15 bucks for not having to play it. 
and then there is the problem, that battleships just lack the versatility that cruiser/battlecruiser-sized ships have. plus - while their use is very limited, compared to medium sized ships, they take a lot longer to train for.
train your advanced medium guns and your race's cruisers, both being x5 skills and you have a good basis for battlecruisers, heavy assault ships, some of the recons and hictors, nice faction cruisers like the cynabal, tech 3 cruisers and even badass in-your-face-command ships further along the line, with recon, hac and battlecruisers each being only a x6 skill. and even a well trained battlecruiser alone is more versatile than a battleship, let alone the lower price.
for battleship you'd have to skill large guns and your races battleships, both being x8 skills, and you get exactly that: battleships with large guns - not more, not less. and if you are not interested in cap ships, marauders or black ops, those skills are a dead end for you. and i lets face it - both caps and t2 battleships aren't very attractive at the moment. with cap ships it is pretty much the same as with the battleships, if not even worse: very limited use, slow, longer time to skill. and the tech 2 battleships .... well, the one is for carebearing and the other for ninjajumping your fleet around. and while i admit, that the latter one is awesome, for most of the pilots just this single use of a ship is not worth the time it takes, to skill for it.
if flying around in huge bricks, that can't hit anything smaller than an average walmart with parking lot, and even that only when it's not moving is what you want to do - go for it! and if you enjoy shooting huge stationary targets, please feel free to do so. but understand, that most players may choose to dedicate their gametime to more fun and interesting activities.
|

Headerman
Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx
107
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 03:00:00 -
[27] - Quote
<-- Minmatar BS 5, Caldari BS 5, Gallente BS 5, Amarr BS 5.
I like my BSs.
And as for gate camps, who do you think would win, a dozen Tempests/Geddons, or a dozen BCs? |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
209
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 03:04:00 -
[28] - Quote
Just to go OT for a momentGǪNeuntausend wrote:GǪthat can't hit anything smaller than an average walmart with parking lot, and even that only when it's not movingGǪ GǪat 400m sig res, that's a stunningly good (and reasonably accurate) description of how battleship-sized guns perform. I'm going to steal that for future reference. 
GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |

Neuntausend
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 03:16:00 -
[29] - Quote
Headerman wrote:And as for gate camps, who do you think would win, a dozen Tempests/Geddons, or a dozen BCs?
probably the bcs, as they are locking faster, tracking better and are quicker at running once the locals formed up and the **** starts hitting the fan.
i am not saying that battleships are bad, and that you can't use them for anything besides pos bashing. but most of the time they won't perform much better than a bunch of battlecruisers and t2 cruisers. they have their uses, but they simply aren't worth it for the average player.
with the cruiser skills being x5 and x6 and being at least partially required for battleships, you can skill cruisers, advanced medium guns and 1 or 2 of the battlecruisers/advanced cruisers to V in the same time it would take you to skill large t2 guns and battleships to V. and seing what range of ships you can fly with those skills and the skills you get access to makes the decision easy for many players.
Gé¼dit: the battleships might be more interesting, if there were more specialized versions of them, like bs-sized counterparts of the t2- and t3 cruisers. but there aren't any, and to be honest: i don't think, that eve is in desperate need for yet another class of ships just for the sake of keeping the players interested in battleships. |

Neuntausend
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 03:23:00 -
[30] - Quote
edit-fail |
|

Renan Ruivo
Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance
17
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 03:26:00 -
[31] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:Headerman wrote:And as for gate camps, who do you think would win, a dozen Tempests/Geddons, or a dozen BCs? probably the bcs, as they are locking faster, tracking better and are quicker at running once the locals formed up and the **** starts hitting the fan. i am not saying that battleships are bad, and that you can't use them for anything besides pos bashing. but most of the time they won't perform much better than a bunch of battlecruisers and t2 cruisers. they have their uses, but they simply aren't worth it for the average player. with the cruiser skills being x5 and x6 and being at least partially required for battleships, you can skill cruisers, advanced medium guns and 2 of the advanced cruisers to V in the same time it would take you to skill large t2 guns and battleships to V. and seing what range of ships you can fly with those skills and the skills you get access to makes the decision easy for many players.
Depends on what kind of gate camp you're talking about. If its a roaming-gatecamp, BC's definatly. If its a planned gate camp in a specific system, with a safespot (like a POS) then tempests/geddons hands down.
Camp tempests and geddons are fitted and rigged to be instalocking, massive alpha monsters. They lock you instantly, and deliver mighty holy wrath from almost 100km away. 5 to 6 of these can wtfpwn any gate, facerape any lone pilot and escape quickly enough to avoid being destroyed if the odds are stacked agaisnt them.
And thats not talking anything about tachyon beam II apocalypses.. |

Abominare
The Hatchery
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 04:42:00 -
[32] - Quote
Wot I Think wrote:So why won't anyone train Battleships? Twenty plus new pilots, not a single one of them is willing to train battleships. "I am gonna fly a Tengu" "I would rather just fly frigates" "I personally am just gonna do logistics" "I want a freighter" "Have Nighthawk, don't need a battleship" "Sleipnir does everything" "I don't fly battleships" "I would train it but I need to get my elite certificates" "I would rather fly a Hulk" "I am not in your corp" "I think a Sac would be better than a battleship, no?" "All I need is my Drake" "I fly the drake thats like a battleship" "If Jeff is gonna fly a Drake so am I" "Battleships are too slow" "MWD + Slasher, nuff said" "I have Caldari Battleship, why do I need another BS?" "Only reason to train battleships is for carriers and I will never use one" "It is suicide to fly a battleship outside of high-sec" "I won't fly a battleship, cause I pay $15 a month, and you can't tell me what to train" "In all seriousness... you can eat a bag of dicks" "I won't train it, cause I don't want to train it" What is the magic hammer argument for "Train a battleship so we can kill POS you dumb mother frackers?" It would be so cool to have 20 people in Amarr battleships blasting POS to goo, but nobody will train. I give up 
You have to actually give them a good reason to train battleships, if you're only reason to train bships is to shoot at a pos then I'd never train battleships for you. (youre asking for bship skills to do the one of the most boring and inane parts of eve pvp)
Battleships certainly have a time and place but a lot of this depends on your fleet situation and fleet doctrine.
Are you mostly running small gangs? Then battleships are most definitely not for you, unless you're running with an experienced nanogang, in which case you don't want your new guys flying them anyways your seasoned vets, who will inevitably get bored of the their canes and drakes anyways for the chance to do more dmg. Virtually anything else in the small gang arena is asking for a competent fleet to wipe the board with you. (I know you're not because you want amarr)
Are you in a sov holding alliance coalition? Then yes you tell them the price of admission is being able to fit up whatever bship your bloc wants for required ops. They cant/wont fly or train for it? Then you don't want them anyways take their stuff in your space (the fine for wasting your time)and kick them.
You're a carebear corp that occasionally gets war decced? Those battleships will most likely just be kb ****. But hey its your efficiency, but you're better off with a bc gang.
If you're a dedicated pvp (merc/pirate/anti pirate) then you should really work on your recruiting skills to pick out people who fly ships that work with your fleet doctrine.
In all honesty, new people are the last people I'd want flying expensive ships (read ships above bcs) Its pretty standard that no matter how many skill points or supposed experience you have, you will fly frigates until you prove you're not an idiot and have the skills to fully fit t2 on a bc, then you prove you're even better before you fly anything else. |

Trainwreck McGee
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
17
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 05:18:00 -
[33] - Quote
m a e l s t r o m
|
|
|
|
| instapop CCP Trainwreck - Weekend Custodial Engineer / CCP Necrogoats foot stool |

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
44
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 05:21:00 -
[34] - Quote
OP... tell your guys this...
"True... you may not use a battleship often, but when you need to use one you REALLY need to use one as few things will substitute a good battleship in a fleet." "Just because I seem like an idiot, doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown |

Herping yourDerp
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
78
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 06:04:00 -
[35] - Quote
meh, frigs, cruisers, and BC ( and t2 varients) are more fun to fly maybe? |

Aethlyn
38
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 08:14:00 -
[36] - Quote
To me this just shows me that - despite whatever people are saying - CCP did a rather good job in making several ship classes interesting and appealing and therefore avoiding everyone just rushing to battleships just to have the biggest ship around. If you want people to fly battleships, get them something interesting to do that can be done in a battleship more effectively (not talking about the POS thingy).
How about something like "Hey, you newcomers? Want to do something together earning lots of isk and having fun? Just train this list of skills, the corp will get you a ship to fly and we'll be heading out bashing some pirates."? Sure, nothing for complete strangers, but for corp mates? Sounds reasonable to me, especially if there's some support or tutorials included, running missions or later on incursions together (even if it isn't THAT effective to do a L4 mission with 2-4 people).
I wouldn't expect sitting there and convincing everyone to fly a battleship just arguing for 1 or 2 minutes or whatever. Looking for more thoughts? Read my blog or follow me on Twitter. |

Naran Eto
Kut-n-Run
1
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 08:28:00 -
[37] - Quote
I run in a CNR and am thinking of moving to a Navy Scorp (so i can use one of those extra mid slots for an AB :D ) and i love battleships, the one thing that niggles me about them is how slow they move which can be a real PITA for missions with gates a good distance away, and from what i can tell a large majority of people i know that don't like them for exactly that reason, they go for Tengu's instead because although it takes longer to train for and costs a lot more, a tengu can tear its way through level4 missions far quicker than most battleships, so i understand where they're coming from, despite the fact that i will always love my battleships :D |

Rico Minali
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
28
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 08:35:00 -
[38] - Quote
Battleships are our fleet ship, you train to fly our fleet, or you lookelsewhere for a corp. This is made clear when you join and guess what? EVERY single corp member can fly or is trainign towards the two battleships we use.
Just make it clear its what you need in your corp, or they are superfluous to your corps needs. |

Florestan Bronstein
United Engineering Services
60
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 08:41:00 -
[39] - Quote
they don't want to show up in battleships?
just tell them to bring dreads (or supercarriers). |

Kunming
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E Xenon-Empire
10
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 09:01:00 -
[40] - Quote
When in gangs I constantly find my self flying a battleship unless its some specialized gang revolving around a specific tactic, like recon gang or nano gang etc. Amarr BS and pulse lasers are increadibly sweet atm.
Solo, a BS is pretty much out of the question unless its some pimp fit mach or something but then again thats a gank-magnet.
A battleship is a group weapon, once your members can see beyond their futile personal endeavours they will train for it. As I see it your members are too concerned about achieving their own personal dreams.
|
|

Zey Nadar
Aliastra Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 09:08:00 -
[41] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote: "True... you may not use a battleship often, but when you need to use one you REALLY need to use one as few things will substitute a good battleship in a fleet."
Depends on the fleet. Battleships still have uses, even though its mainly amarr and minmatar ones.
Ugh, we can't embed pics in here anymore?  |

knobber Jobbler
Holding Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 09:20:00 -
[42] - Quote
Naran Eto wrote:I run in a CNR and am thinking of moving to a Navy Scorp (so i can use one of those extra mid slots for an AB :D ) and i love battleships, the one thing that niggles me about them is how slow they move which can be a real PITA for missions with gates a good distance away, and from what i can tell a large majority of people i know that don't like them for exactly that reason, they go for Tengu's instead because although it takes longer to train for and costs a lot more, a tengu can tear its way through level4 missions far quicker than most battleships, so i understand where they're coming from, despite the fact that i will always love my battleships :D
1 word. Machariel. Speed tanking in a battleship.
It's a whole world of awesome in pvp and pve. It's no exactly cheap though but a fast fleet based around a couple of those is good fun and very effective. |

non judgement
Evolved from the Wreck Flying Burning Ships Alliance
15
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 09:36:00 -
[43] - Quote
Has anyone said NeutDomi yet? |

Neuntausend
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 09:48:00 -
[44] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:"True... you may not use a battleship often, but when you need to use one you REALLY need to use one as few things will substitute a good battleship in a fleet."
if that is the thing your corp does, aye. it's basically like rico said: if your corp specializes on battleships, it's pretty much either training for bs or looking somewhere else.
i 'personally' never found myself feeling the need for a battleship, which is the reason for me not being able to fit one too well tho. |

Lord Wamphyri
Starside Lost
57
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 09:53:00 -
[45] - Quote
How things have changed..
When I started years ago it seemed that all new pilots wanted to do was get into a battleship as quickly as possible, then whine when they got popped because their frigate guns didn't get the job done..
I waited about 3 years before I even bought the BS skillbook. I wanted to make sure that I had the proper skillset to back me up and enable it to be fitted properly, but now it's the ship I spend a lot of my time in.
|

Riggs Droput
Mad Bombers Guns and Alcohol
6
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 10:05:00 -
[46] - Quote
I love flying smaller ships,
Loki, Canes, Slepnirs, Tengu's.
But there is something to be said about brawling on a gate with logistics support in a BS. I might only ship up to a BS on special occasions but when I do its usually something to remember.
For your average roam, I wouldn't want to be in a BS. I usually don't want to be in anything larger then a cruiser. Thats just me tho.
100mn Tengu's are mean and fun.... other then the 17sec align time
Riggs I would rather die on my feet, than live on my knees |

Steph Wing
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
47
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 11:05:00 -
[47] - Quote
non judgement wrote:Has anyone said NeutDomi yet?
I believe quite a few people were saying it, oh, five years or so ago. |

Jokerface666
Ever Flow Northern Coalition.
15
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 11:06:00 -
[48] - Quote
for small roams i prefer smal ships, frigs, cruisers.
if you are going to bitchslap someone, and you have got a good logistics wing, BS is your choice. It's like sitting in an 2000000 mm howitzer instapoping everything in sight.
From a bigger BS gang the main problem is targeting, becouse half the gang can't keep up targeting as how fast the enemy is vanishing. ------------------------------w00t w00t rapetrain------------------------------ |

Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
261
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 11:24:00 -
[49] - Quote
Wot I Think wrote: It would be so cool to have 20 people in Amarr battleships blasting POS to goo, but nobody will train.
Join the CVA.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori. |

Holy One
SniggWaffe
17
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 11:35:00 -
[50] - Quote
"I would rather just fly frigates"
+1
T2 frigs consistently provide the most lols for me. Even after 8 years.
Its a shame battleships are redundant n all but that is indeed just symptomatic of the games overriding lack of balance.
I'd love to fly armour tanked amarr ships .. honestly .. |
|

Lady Go Diveher
The Independent Troll Society
65
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 14:01:00 -
[51] - Quote
You want to POS bash. Your guys don't want to train battleships.
This suggests that the only mechanism you can think of for dealing with a POS is battleships, which is just not true.
Depending on the POS and it's location, there are better ships suited to the task.
All you need are enough battleships (other ships are viable) to incap the guns.
From there, the only requirement for the ships coming along is they can apply damage at 25km.
Enter, the stealth bomber. Good DPS, at range, easy to train, and doesn't involve training a ship class and weapons they'll likely never use again.
If you can't convince them to train either a bomber or a battleship, kick them from corp. |

Vicar2008
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Warped Aggression
34
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 15:11:00 -
[52] - Quote
Just point them to the power of the Nightmare, rigged with T2 Tachs, I am fapping right now  |

AFKCloaked AltSpy
MasterMined Technologies
13
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 15:27:00 -
[53] - Quote
You bash a lotta POS's in the State War Academy there champ? |

Satav
Latinum Exports
18
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 15:36:00 -
[54] - Quote
Pattern Clarc wrote:Tell them 20 Mealstroms would instapop most of the other subcap ships they would have wanted to train?
Lol yep. that and 20 Tempests.
The world we live in today eh? The last few policies CCP has implemented and we are getting the childish, niave, arrogant, lazy, and narcisistic kids from World of Warcraft in Eve. lol.
I don't want WoW noobs in Eve. And don't even try to argue this. I've played WoW extensively and one day a friend told me about Eve and i've never looked back. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
212
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 15:51:00 -
[55] - Quote
Lord Wamphyri wrote:How things have changed..
When I started years ago it seemed that all new pilots wanted to do was get into a battleship as quickly as possible, then whine when they got popped because their frigate guns didn't get the job done.. I was new back when that was the prevailing logic. I think that's probably why I don't particularly care for them these days: because at some during those early months, I had gathered up enough cash and prereq skills to buy the books and start training them, and then, just before actually doing it, I stopped and thoughGǪ Gǥhey, what am I actually going to do with these ships?Gǥ
There was no useful answer. Same with everyone else in SAK chat GÇö everyone was rushing there, but no-one could articulate why (ok, some could, along the lines of GÇ£butGǪ CNR! For missions!GÇ¥, which wasn't something that particularly interested me at the time).
So that book went back on the market, and here I am, 3+ years later, and I am yet to come across a reason for me to train them.
Jokerface666 wrote:if you are going to bitchslap someone, and you have got a good logistics wing, BS is your choice. It's like sitting in an 2000000 mm howitzer instapoping everything in sight. GǪand this is pretty much why. As soon as there is a mention of a BS fleet, there is always that little addendum: logistics. Or the addendum Gǣfast tacklerGǥ. Or the addendum GǣreconGǥ. Even in that highsec POS bash where battleships might actually have a reasonably unique and irreplaceable role, those support ships are needed. So there is always room for a Gǣnot-BS.Gǥ
Granted, the OP is talking about a somewhat different situation where no-one wants to train BS (which I still consider a tasking-recruiting mismatch), but the whole argument about not being able to pull your weight without being able to fly a BS kind of falls flat on its face when you consider the myriad of support craft that a proper BS fleet will carry alongside. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |

Joe Skellington
Matari Legion Holding Matari Legion
12
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 16:15:00 -
[56] - Quote
I love my Vargur (Battleship on Steroids) for mission running. -á-á |\_/|-á -á/ @ @ \ -á-á -á( > -¦ < )-á -á`-+-+x-½-½-¦ -á-á / O \ |

Ginger Yatolila
Imperial Manufacturing and Engineering Regiment
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 17:16:00 -
[57] - Quote
Mina Sebiestar wrote:noob with not much than 3 mil sp are in NM running incursions making billions dont see why your noobs cant do the same.
pathetic just how pathetic this game becoming.
What is really pathetic is that you are using valuable time to post how pathetic (in your opinion) the game is becoming..... |

Comrade Commizzar
Eve Revolutionary Army
3
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 19:38:00 -
[58] - Quote
Steph Wing wrote:The basic argument is that CERTAIN NEW PLAYERS put more stock in what EFT says is a bigger number than what actually flies, and are very very quick to dismiss the advice and experience of pilots who've been around long enough to know what's the better option. Reminding said people of this fact is the simplest thing to do. No need to be an ass, just gently remind them that, actually, you've been playing this game longer than they have, and you probably have a better idea of what's a good idea.
Specific counterpoints:
"I am gonna fly a Tengu"
Learn to actually PvP before you fly around a ship that costs a billion ISK to fiy properly. Alternatively, carebear.
"I would rather just fly frigates"
Admirable, actually. Train for battleships when you've maxed out frigate skills.
"I personally am just gonna do logistics"
Uh...wow? People actually want to fly logistics? Sounds like an ace pilot to me.
"I want a freighter"
Carebear.
"Have Nighthawk, don't need a battleship"
EFT more.
"Sleipnir does everything"
EFT more.
"I don't fly battleships"
Well what do you fly?
"I would train it but I need to get my elite certificates"
lol
"I would rather fly a Hulk"
Carebear.
"I am not in your corp"
I'm assuming this is an alliancemate? Talk to CEO?
"I think a Sac would be better than a battleship, no?"
EFT more.
"All I need is my Drake"
Is it a nanodrake? If it isn't, then EFT more.
"I fly the drake thats like a battleship"
EFT more.
"If Jeff is gonna fly a Drake so am I"
Jeff probably isn't the ranking FC in this conversation.
"Battleships are too slow"
Battleships aren't meant to be fast.
"MWD + Slasher, nuff said"
Kick from corp.
"I have Caldari Battleship, why do I need another BS?"
Torp ravens aren't terrible for POS bashes are they? I honestly don't know, the only caldari battleship I touch is the scorp.
"Only reason to train battleships is for carriers and I will never use one"
You've trained for them, might as well use them if the FC says to.
"It is suicide to fly a battleship outside of high-sec"
lol no
"I won't fly a battleship, cause I pay $15 a month, and you can't tell me what to train"
Kick from corp.
"In all seriousness... you can eat a bag of dicks"
Kick from corp.
"I won't train it, cause I don't want to train it"
Kick from corp.
I don't mean to tell you how to run your show, but to me this sounds largely like a discipline problem with your new pilots. The remainder just don't know any better, and a bit of time actually flying in space will learn them good. Or they'll refuse to join fleet ops because their ship is arse, and then you can call them on not pulling their weight.
Must laugh at this arrogant Capitalist Fascist... Especially the responses "kick from Corp"... Any self-respecting pod pilot hearing these words from their leadership wouldn't need to be kicked as they would already be running for the exit doors.
Who in their right mind would want to be a serf in the ant-farm of these Oligarchs, wasting their time, energy, and resources in defending the RMT plantations? |

Jokerface666
Ever Flow Northern Coalition.
15
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 19:48:00 -
[59] - Quote
Problem for most new players is, that they're used to fast things (most of them come from either fast MMOS (fast leveling, fast gameplay, or Shooters, fast running, fast rounds.
so they want fast ships and fast achievment so... Frigates and crusers
They do not realise that if you want to be good at EVE you have to be able to fly ANYTHING Sometimes a Dramiel is just THE choice, but sometimes an ABADDOn is THE thing.... it all depends on the situaton, new players just have to realise, that EVE is not about "I WANT TO BRING SHIP X" it's about "THE FC NEED x ARMOR BS, X GUARDIANS, X TACKLERS, X..... "
they have to learn that eve is not about i am gonna be THE drake pilot, it's about what can i do to be THE fleet member. In eve teamplay is everything. Thats the main point.
All you have to do is teach them to be team players... ehm good luck with that, you can count that 15 % of your corp is going to be left in about 3 months. ------------------------------w00t w00t rapetrain------------------------------ |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
275
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 19:59:00 -
[60] - Quote
I can easily understand new players not wanting to train BS right away - that's right and proper. But there's a lot of fun you can have with Battleships and it's a shame to miss out because of some pre-conceived notions.
I mean if nothing else, there's the Machariel, a fast battlecruiser that can fit 7x triple-bonused 1400mm Arty and easily have 160k EHP.
If you can't think of three great things to do with the Typhoon, there's some big gaps in your EVE knowledge or your imagination. Ditto the Domi.
Also, let's consider the Fleetphoon. And the Navgeddon. They're only 80-90M more than an Abaddon, ffs. (I am OK with saying this cos I just bought 2 of each). Come on, people. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
|

Ladie Scarlet
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
208
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 20:56:00 -
[61] - Quote
Ginger Yatolila wrote:What is really pathetic is that you are using valuable time to post how pathetic (in your opinion) the game is becoming.....  Time spent posting is never time wasted. Never stop posting.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |

Lharanai
Empyrean Guard Seventh Vanguard
11
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 21:57:00 -
[62] - Quote
I still love my Apoc
slow - CHECK LAZZOORRRSS - CHECK bad tank - CHECK medium alpha - CHECK
but hey I love every ship which survived with 1% hull |

Sgt Maru
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
29
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 22:06:00 -
[63] - Quote
I fly battleships, both Caldari and Minmatar. Have been thinking about training for Gallete, since they're supposed to get balanced, but that would mean training armor skills and such, not really interested in that, so I'll stick with Scorps and Maelstroms. Only reason I would have a Gallente ship is just so I can say I have it, though being able to fly a Rattlesnake would be cool. Still waiting for a Caldari/Minmatar faction ship though. |

Cpt Fina
The Tuskers
9
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 22:34:00 -
[64] - Quote
Rephrasing: The fact that alot of people tend not to include battleships in their gang due to their lack of faith in the ship-class paradoxely makes it more viable and easier for solo battleship pilots. |

Simetraz
State War Academy Caldari State
59
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 23:30:00 -
[65] - Quote
Massive Fleet Fight = BS Small Scale Fleet / Roaming Gang = everything EXCEPT a BS.
You really can't blame people, for not wanting to fly BS's
Capitals (Balancing and Roles) |

Cunane Jeran
8
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 23:32:00 -
[66] - Quote
Show them a Blaster Megathron in action. If that doesn't get their pants roused nothing will. |

Headerman
Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx
110
|
Posted - 2011.09.27 00:13:00 -
[67] - Quote
Neut Pests...
Neut Phoons...
Sentry Phoons....
Alpha Maels....
Scorch Geddons....
smart bombing Rokhs...
Triple rep Hyperions....
The most fun i have ever had is solo roaming in a neut pest, cause nothing short of a carrier or a serious gang can stop ya.
BSs can be a lot of fun. [img]http://i53.tinypic.com/bebnf8.jpg[/img] |

Karn Dulake
Souls Must Be Trampled The.Alliance
8
|
Posted - 2011.09.27 02:51:00 -
[68] - Quote
Caldari BS V Amarr BS V
Elite Core skills
Nightmare for the win.
Only took me 30 million SP to perfect this one ship but it was worth it to hell and back
if isk making in missions nothing beats Battleships |

Aramatheia
Traveler 52 D-Collective
1
|
Posted - 2011.09.27 02:57:00 -
[69] - Quote
Quote:"I personally am just gonna do logistics"
Uh...wow? People actually want to fly logistics? Sounds like an ace pilot to me
I'm new to eve, been playing like 3 months i did the whole rush to battleships for incursions thing but i'm training into logi's now, another month or so at least till i'm at fleet readiness standards with my scimi |

Jokerface666
Ever Flow Northern Coalition.
17
|
Posted - 2011.09.27 05:30:00 -
[70] - Quote
Aramatheia wrote:Quote:"I personally am just gonna do logistics"
Uh...wow? People actually want to fly logistics? Sounds like an ace pilot to me I'm new to eve, been playing like 3 months i did the whole rush to battleships for incursions thing but i'm training into logi's now, another month or so at least till i'm at fleet readiness standards with my scimi
Make sure you have the LOGI, Remote energy emission and Remote Shield emission skils all at V otherwise you'll **** up the chain.
also before you engage in ANY KIND OF FLEET AS A NEW LOGI PILOT do this: Go to the test servers, get moved into the test systems, get in a Shield fleetwith a few more logis and practtice!
As a logi, if you do not know EXACTLY what your doing your death to your fleet, if you know what you're doing you're a goddess and you'll get lots of "gj logis" and "n1 logis" at the end.
also other logi pilots hate it when their cap runs dry becouse of someone in the chain to slow or not paying attention. expirienced logi pilot here. ------------------------------w00t w00t rapetrain------------------------------ |
|

Ramacliv
RC Minerals and Salvage
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.27 05:30:00 -
[71] - Quote
Okay being a more experienced noob and an admitted carebear I decided to devote time into training up this account with an alt to have a perfectly skilled mining team. I started out thinking a BS would be grand and then after getting a "bigger" ship and not having the skills I realized not only will it take time to get to the point I can fit one right but it will be damn expensive to keep losing them. Now the plan is to finish skilling up for high sec mining and then work on my other skills getting into a BS over time while I gain operating capital mining. Of course I also do some missions and a few lowsec roams in frigs (especially with Eve Radio) but my main goal is to meake ISK while skills train so I can make isk other ways at a later point in time. I figure in a few more months (maybe longer) you might see me in a well fitted BS but untill I can the smaller the "combat" ship the better because the skills take less time to train to 5.
Before anyone says it yes I know there are other ways that are "better" to make my ISK but I actually like mining. It's a personal choice and I can play in the sandbox my way.
BTW my alt should be in a BS before this my main because I am only going hulk 5 and not orca 5 as well like I am with Rama. The alt will eventually have BS5 for all races as well as 5 in all lower classes then get advanced skills going. Rama is going to stick with Minnie ships through BS then work on advanced and go to Cap ships It took me a while to come up with a plan and now that I haveone my intention is to stick with it because I realize it takes months and even years to get from noob to decent pilot in this game.. |

Jokerface666
Ever Flow Northern Coalition.
17
|
Posted - 2011.09.27 05:39:00 -
[72] - Quote
Ramacliv wrote:Okay being a more experienced noob and an admitted carebear I decided to devote time into training up this account with an alt to have a perfectly skilled mining team. I started out thinking a BS would be grand and then after getting a "bigger" ship and not having the skills I realized not only will it take time to get to the point I can fit one right but it will be damn expensive to keep losing them. Now the plan is to finish skilling up for high sec mining and then work on my other skills getting into a BS over time while I gain operating capital mining. Of course I also do some missions and a few lowsec roams in frigs (especially with Eve Radio) but my main goal is to meake ISK while skills train so I can make isk other ways at a later point in time. I figure in a few more months (maybe longer) you might see me in a well fitted BS but untill I can the smaller the "combat" ship the better because the skills take less time to train to 5.
Before anyone says it yes I know there are other ways that are "better" to make my ISK but I actually like mining. It's a personal choice and I can play in the sandbox my way.
BTW my alt should be in a BS before this my main because I am only going hulk 5 and not orca 5 as well like I am with Rama. The alt will eventually have BS5 for all races as well as 5 in all lower classes then get advanced skills going. Rama is going to stick with Minnie ships through BS then work on advanced and go to Cap ships It took me a while to come up with a plan and now that I haveone my intention is to stick with it because I realize it takes months and even years to get from noob to decent pilot in this game..
sounds good to me. just a tip, your certificates are good waypoints, the core certificates, you need them on all ships (energy, tank, targeting and so on) train that first, so you are able to use the ships you get in the future properly.
I do not want to see a T1 fitted Abaddon!!!! ------------------------------w00t w00t rapetrain------------------------------ |
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page] |