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Selinate
Amarr Wardens of the Void
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Posted - 2011.01.09 02:33:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Ademaro Imre
Originally by: Selinate
Bringing up some obscure map made by obscure people to make a blanket statement about all democrats is just pure... Dear god, you're the kind of person we need to ship to an island and let you live on your own to have your own ideals and shout them at yourself all day...
Representatives of a political party, and operating arms of a political party are obscure to you?
What is moronic, is not reading this thread, then making your post. When someone claims that crosshairs get people killed and its a trend within one political party, they need to explain why bullseyes do not and why the other political party practices exactly the same type of political fundraising. That's what I asked.
Yes. You lost. We all know it. Now keep to yourself.
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Ademaro Imre
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.01.09 02:33:00 -
[92]
BTW;
Was that a Generation 3 Glock 19 on Loughner's website? It sure looks like one. Appears to have a trigger safety and rails.
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Joe Phoenix
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Posted - 2011.01.09 02:35:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Okie Wren
Originally by: Joe Phoenix Edited by: Joe Phoenix on 09/01/2011 02:26:58 Oh MERIN is on this thread!! I can poke fun at the fat lexbian and nobody will care because everyone hates her/his face
edit: are you still in pain after your last public butt-****ing?
Where's my blasted trailer, Joe!
IT IS COMING!! I just has some stuff to do with VSO which had me in Africa.
Anyway its better then a trailer, its the first 3 scenes!
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente Sigma Special Tactics Group Fleet Coordination Coalition
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Posted - 2011.01.09 02:36:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Ademaro Imre BTW;
Was that a Generation 3 Glock 19 on Loughner's website? It sure looks like one. Appears to have a trigger safety and rails.
Yes that's a Gen 3 at best. All of the new ones have equipment rails.
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Jada Maroo
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Posted - 2011.01.09 02:36:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer Sad. Arizona is a very gunned up state, and yet nobody shot back. Most Americans are carebears who never expect something bad to happen.
It's possible not many people, even CCL holders, are going to bring a gun to a political rally for fear of being wanded and tackled by the security detail. I'd probably leave mine in my car too if I was going to meet with a congressperson, honestly.
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Yiffi
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Posted - 2011.01.09 02:38:00 -
[96]
Friend of yours Merin?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nk8H-01cpA
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stoicfaux
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.01.09 02:40:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer on 09/01/2011 02:33:20
The guns I keep locked up will probably get blamed for this.
I haven't shot anybody and will also get blamed for this.
And ironically, Gifford supports gun rights (but the NRA gave her a D+ rating, but that rating may be partisan based.)
----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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Jada Maroo
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Posted - 2011.01.09 02:40:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Selinate
Yes. You lost. We all know it. Now keep to yourself.
He's not the one who's been left, as a final desperate point of argument, in essence claiming (with a straight face presumably): "That political graphic promotes violence! Yeah! But those other two virtually identical graphics definitely DO NOT promote violence!"
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Joe Phoenix
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Posted - 2011.01.09 02:42:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Yiffi Friend of yours Merin?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nk8H-01cpA
ROFL
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Okie Wren
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Posted - 2011.01.09 02:42:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Joe Phoenix
IT IS COMING!! I just has some stuff to do with VSO which had me in Africa.
Anyway its better then a trailer, its the first 3 scenes!
Seriously?
Awesome.. if true.
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Ademaro Imre
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.01.09 02:43:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Jada Maroo
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer Sad. Arizona is a very gunned up state, and yet nobody shot back. Most Americans are carebears who never expect something bad to happen.
It's possible not many people, even CCL holders, are going to bring a gun to a political rally for fear of being wanded and tackled by the security detail. I'd probably leave mine in my car too if I was going to meet with a congressperson, honestly.
I'd say 95% of CC permit holders only have one because they shoot at a range. In my state, its against the law to travel with ammunition and a weapon in the same compartment of a vehicle. For instance, ammunition must be in the trunk and the weapon in the car, or vice versa. If someone leaves a shooting range, and forgets to separate the two from their range bag when at the car, and gets pulled over and searched for whatever reason, or in a car accident, they are looking at mandatory jail time. CC permit eliminates that worry.
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Selinate
Amarr Wardens of the Void
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Posted - 2011.01.09 02:44:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Jada Maroo
Originally by: Selinate
Yes. You lost. We all know it. Now keep to yourself.
He's not the one who's been left, as a final desperate point of argument, in essence claiming (with a straight face presumably): "That political graphic promotes violence! Yeah! But those other two virtually identical graphics definitely DO NOT promote violence!"
I never... when did I...
Jesus Christ.... you're an idiot.
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.09 02:45:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Joe Phoenix Edited by: Joe Phoenix on 09/01/2011 02:26:58 Oh MERIN is on this thread!! I can poke fun at the fat lexbian and nobody will care because everyone hates her/his face
edit: are you still in pain after your last public butt-****ing?
Yep, Joe Phoenix, shining example of all that is good with humanity.
Oh wait, you're just a bigot AND a sociopath.
PS: how's your fraud of a "movie" going?
Originally by: Joe Phoenix What kill a corrupt politician? WOW thats such a crazy idea i bet nobody in the world has done that before!
Yep, like I said, complete sociopath. Even the tea party people have some basic human sympathy for the victims (or at least pretend to). -----------
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente Sigma Special Tactics Group Fleet Coordination Coalition
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Posted - 2011.01.09 02:48:00 -
[104]
Originally by: stoicfaux
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer on 09/01/2011 02:33:20
The guns I keep locked up will probably get blamed for this.
I haven't shot anybody and will also get blamed for this.
And ironically, Gifford supports gun rights (but the NRA gave her a D+ rating, but that rating may be partisan based.)
The NRA is crap. GOA is more accurate.
Factions factions factions!!!!!
Funny thing about the political parties: I have brought guns to Republican events and nobody cared but you never hear of anyone doing that at a Democrat event, even when it's just as legal to do so depending on the venue and the state-level laws.
Now for the test: if it's ninny time and this goes in the direction of "the big bad conservatives are out to kill all the democrats we need more gun control" then we will hear about this incident for a while. But if Democrats start to say "hey we need to be able to defend ourselves from this crap" then the media will memory-hole this incident in a few days.
Just look at each case, the blogs that follow the news articles, and the articles themselves. When people start asking "why didn't they have their own guns?" (and Arizona is actually very friendly for gun rights) the media will get real quiet and we won't see much more on this incident. This was like an attempted mass shooting at a large church a couple of years ago where one of the attendees shot the nut job dead in the doorway the moment he started shooting. The next day you had to dig for any news about it.
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Selinate
Amarr Wardens of the Void
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Posted - 2011.01.09 02:50:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer
The NRA is crap. GOA is more accurate.
Factions factions factions!!!!!
Funny thing about the political parties: I have brought guns to Republican events and nobody cared but you never hear of anyone doing that at a Democrat event, even when it's just as legal to do so depending on the venue and the state-level laws.
Now for the test: if it's ninny time and this goes in the direction of "the big bad conservatives are out to kill all the democrats we need more gun control" then we will hear about this incident for a while. But if Democrats start to say "hey we need to be able to defend ourselves from this crap" then the media will memory-hole this incident in a few days.
Just look at each case, the blogs that follow the news articles, and the articles themselves. When people start asking "why didn't they have their own guns?" (and Arizona is actually very friendly for gun rights) the media will get real quiet and we won't see much more on this incident. This was like an attempted mass shooting at a large church a couple of years ago where one of the attendees shot the nut job dead in the doorway the moment he started shooting. The next day you had to dig for any news about it.
Given the political nature of such a debate, I really doubt that the news coverage will die if the Democrats start going down that route...
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.09 02:50:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Jada Maroo Agreed, because this guy can't be pinned on anyone. Besides, the more we try to shift responsibility onto some other group or ideology, the less responsibility we place on the murdering sack of crap. I'm not sure why anyone would want to do that.
It's not about removing any responsiblity from the murderer (the world will be a better place when he is executed for his crimes), it's about pointing out that actions have consequences. The tea party needs to realize the irresponsibility of their violent propaganda and stop doing it.
Originally by: Ademaro Imre What is moronic, is not reading this thread, then making your post. When someone claims that crosshairs get people killed and its a trend within one political party, they need to explain why bullseyes do not and why the other political party practices exactly the same type of political fundraising. That's what I asked.
The difference is simple:
The tea party has been doing two things:
1) Comparing themselves to the revolution that started this country (quoting appropriate propaganda, etc). Whether it was justified or not, that was a VIOLENT revolution.
2) Using language/images/etc that suggest violence against political opponents.
The democrats, as a whole, have not. -----------
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Jhagiti Tyran
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Posted - 2011.01.09 02:51:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Shameless Avenger Criminals who want a gun to commit a crime will get the gun even if getting the gun is a crime in itself... duh. So, in before the omg-we-need-gun-laws, gun laws will prevent nothing.
Now, lets focus on why she was shot.
Rubbish, its no coincidence than in England the type of gun most often used in crime is the gun that is the easiest to obtain legally.
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Joe Phoenix
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Posted - 2011.01.09 02:54:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Originally by: Joe Phoenix Edited by: Joe Phoenix on 09/01/2011 02:26:58 Oh MERIN is on this thread!! I can poke fun at the fat lexbian and nobody will care because everyone hates her/his face
edit: are you still in pain after your last public butt-****ing?
Yep, Joe Phoenix, shining example of all that is good with humanity.
Oh wait, you're just a bigot AND a sociopath.
PS: how's your fraud of a "movie" going?
Originally by: Joe Phoenix What kill a corrupt politician? WOW thats such a crazy idea i bet nobody in the world has done that before!
Yep, like I said, complete sociopath. Even the tea party people have some basic human sympathy for the victims (or at least pretend to).
I'm British hense i must take part in "tea parties", oh dear.
No merin its known as the greater good.
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Ademaro Imre
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.01.09 02:58:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
The tea party has been doing two things:
1) Comparing themselves to the revolution that started this country (quoting appropriate propaganda, etc). Whether it was justified or not, that was a VIOLENT revolution.
2) Using language/images/etc that suggest violence against political opponents.
The democrats, as a whole, have not.
Tea party, Sarah Palin, tea party.........
Has it ever occured to you ONCE, that there may be a link between Loughner's atheism, his likes of the Communist Manifesto, and Mein Kampf, and Giffords being a Jew?
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente Sigma Special Tactics Group Fleet Coordination Coalition
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Posted - 2011.01.09 02:59:00 -
[110]
By the way, a brief note on "shooting politicians".
I have worked in the circles of firearms training for close to 15 years now and worked alongside the sort of people who not only are capable of shooting a lot of people with guns, at any range, but could, when they get their friends together, change over a whole government.
Now in cases like this, there is is usual crowd trying to state that people who are skilled in the use of arms are "out to get the establishment" because of some threat or perception of it. Usually those who actually try that tend to be nut jobs and tend to be crap shooters too. If someone with real skill ever did a mass shooting, or something like the DC Sniper, there would be a lot of dead bodies.
So I once asked one of these modern Supermen "Why don't you or some guys like you ever <insert government altering violent action here>?" and I got my ass chewed on. Why?
Because every "operator" who knows the ways of the gun will ask you "what difference does it make?".
You see, killing politicians and judges does not make a difference. All it really does is make a martyr out of a crook, and then some years later there will be a new Federal building named after the victim in a town or city that does not currently have a federal building, and that new building will be home to a new swarm of agents "sent to harrass the people" as Jefferson would put it.
So I, as have others, who, in learning how to be very effective with weapons, have also learned that the weapons have limits. This is especially the case in a democracy. Kill the corrupt, or the right-winger, or the left-winger, or the good guy, and the people will simply elect another one after canonizing the dead one. Sure there are cases where it did matter in smaller countries, but there were already factions (CIA, Communists, etc) funding different groups with their own leaders getting ready to take over.
So I can pretty much vouch for myself and other gunmen, trainers, operators, and soldiers, when I say that nobody I know thinks there is anything positive to come out of killing people, especially politicians and judges.
This is why such killings are rare in the United States, and usually carried out by nuts and in a cloud of suspicious circumstances that the media will not be very open about.
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.09 03:01:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Joe Phoenix I'm British hense i must take part in "tea parties", oh dear.
And you're illiterate too.
I didn't say you were a member of the tea party, I said even the tea party members are better than you. -----------
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Jada Maroo
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Posted - 2011.01.09 03:01:00 -
[112]
Edited by: Jada Maroo on 09/01/2011 03:03:46 Edited by: Jada Maroo on 09/01/2011 03:01:59
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
It's not about removing any responsiblity from the murderer (the world will be a better place when he is executed for his crimes), it's about pointing out that actions have consequences. The tea party needs to realize the irresponsibility of their violent propaganda and stop doing it.
Why would the Tea Party do anything differently based on the actions of a schitzophrenic with no coherent political philosophy? Do you go through life basing your actions and words on the possible reactions of crazy people?
And I'm still wondering when you're going to start applying these standards to Barack Obama. Sarah Palin never referred to a terrorist as her mentor. Sarah Palin didn't start her political career in a terrorist's living room. Sarah Palin didn't have a terrorist help write her biography. Sarah Palin's pastor didn't say the US brought the 9/11 attacks on itself.
It's a funny double standard you have there.
Quote: The difference is simple:
The tea party has been doing two things:
1) Comparing themselves to the revolution that started this country (quoting appropriate propaganda, etc). Whether it was justified or not, that was a VIOLENT revolution.
2) Using language/images/etc that suggest violence against political opponents.
The democrats, as a whole, have not.
Yeah, they actually do it.
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.09 03:03:00 -
[113]
Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 09/01/2011 03:05:32
Originally by: Ademaro Imre Tea party, Sarah Palin, tea party.........
Has it ever occured to you ONCE, that there may be a link between Loughner's atheism, his likes of the Communist Manifesto, and Mein Kampf, and Giffords being a Jew?
Did Loughner have links and "likes" about Sarah Palin as much as he did for The Communist Manifesto and Mein Kampf?
So under your theory, it's just pure coincidence that the person he picked to kill just happened to be a politician the tea party has used violent language/images about?
Originally by: Jada Maroo Why would the Tea Party do anything differently based on the actions of a schitzophrenic with no coherent political philosophy? Do you go through life basing your actions and words on the possible reactions of crazy people?
Maybe because the tea party realizes that it could be a bad idea to use violent language/images/etc because some people might take it seriously?
Quote: And I'm still wondering when you're going to start applying these standards to Barack Obama. Sarah Palin never referred to a terrorist as her mentor. Sarah Palin didn't start her political career in a terrorist's living room. Sarah Palin didn't have a terrorist help write her biography. Sarah Palin's pastor didn't say the US brought the 9/11 attacks on itself.
1) Who said I liked Obama? I think he's a terrible president.
2) You may notice a tiny little detail here: Obama isn't hinting at violent revolution, last time I checked.
It's a funny double standard you have there.
-----------
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Joe Phoenix
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Posted - 2011.01.09 03:03:00 -
[114]
Merin just called a VSO volunteer a sociopath? Oh what sweet irony
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Okie Wren
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Posted - 2011.01.09 03:09:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Jhagiti Tyran
Rubbish, its no coincidence than in England the type of gun most often used in crime is the gun that is the easiest to obtain legally.
But is that because people who use these guns in crime are able to obtain them legally, or just because it's the most abundant because of it's legality?
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente Sigma Special Tactics Group Fleet Coordination Coalition
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Posted - 2011.01.09 03:10:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Selinate
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer
The NRA is crap. GOA is more accurate.
Factions factions factions!!!!!
Funny thing about the political parties: I have brought guns to Republican events and nobody cared but you never hear of anyone doing that at a Democrat event, even when it's just as legal to do so depending on the venue and the state-level laws.
Now for the test: if it's ninny time and this goes in the direction of "the big bad conservatives are out to kill all the democrats we need more gun control" then we will hear about this incident for a while. But if Democrats start to say "hey we need to be able to defend ourselves from this crap" then the media will memory-hole this incident in a few days.
Just look at each case, the blogs that follow the news articles, and the articles themselves. When people start asking "why didn't they have their own guns?" (and Arizona is actually very friendly for gun rights) the media will get real quiet and we won't see much more on this incident. This was like an attempted mass shooting at a large church a couple of years ago where one of the attendees shot the nut job dead in the doorway the moment he started shooting. The next day you had to dig for any news about it.
Given the political nature of such a debate, I really doubt that the news coverage will die if the Democrats start going down that route...
yep...
Political Hacks Waste No Time In Shamelessly Exploiting Giffords Shooting To Demonize Political Oppositon
From the article (interesting)
UPDATE: This is allegedly Jared LoughnerÆs You Tube Channel. He lists his favorite books as Mein Kampf and The Communist Manifesto. There is no evidence of any Tea Party/Ron Paul/patriot movement affiliation, much to the disappointment of the Huffington Post, but Fox News and others are hastily building his profile as a nutcase conspiracy theorist.
UPDATE: A second man has been arrested in connection with the shooting, while a third man is also being sought. Expect the media to bury this.
UPDATE: Reports suggest that the gunman is a 22-year-old white male named Jared Loughner, an Arizona native.
UPDATE: Amidst a widespread assault on gun rights, we learn that the gunman was stopped after he was shot at by someone in the crowd exercising their second amendment.
UPDATE: GiffordsÆ father has told the New York Post that ôthe entire Tea Partyö were enemies of his daughter, suggesting that a Tea Partier was behind the shooting. However, Giffords is a blue dog Democrat who is pro-border control and pro-second amendment - an unusual target for a ôtea partierö.
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.09 03:11:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Joe Phoenix Merin just called a VSO volunteer a sociopath? Oh what sweet irony
How desperate must you be when you're bragging about your volunteering like that? One might almost suspect that your motives for volunteering (if you even did) have less to do with altruism than with making yourself look good...
And yes, I'm calling the person who said "Do i feel sorry for a corporate puppet? **** no!" a sociopath. Go read a dictionary if you have trouble seeing how "lack of sympathy for murder victims" could possibly make you a sociopath. -----------
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente Sigma Special Tactics Group Fleet Coordination Coalition
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Posted - 2011.01.09 03:13:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Okie Wren
Originally by: Jhagiti Tyran
Rubbish, its no coincidence than in England the type of gun most often used in crime is the gun that is the easiest to obtain legally.
But is that because people who use these guns in crime are able to obtain them legally, or just because it's the most abundant because of it's legality?
It's an either or situation. Sometimes the gun is stolen, sometimes it was obtained through legal channels. What is generally accepted in the US is that a criminal who is motivated enough will eventually find a way to get a gun no matter what the laws are, and this is actually proven. Just like drugs, when someone wants it enough and spends enough time at it, they eventually get it. Therefore people are not in favor of new laws to restrict those who don't have all the time in the world. A person who is not a criminal who can spend all day every day looking for a black market gun will not be able to defend themselves.
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Joe Phoenix
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Posted - 2011.01.09 03:13:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Originally by: Joe Phoenix I'm British hense i must take part in "tea parties", oh dear.
And you're illiterate too.
I didn't say you were a member of the tea party, I said even the tea party members are better than you.
You smell like cabbage! oh wait, we're not playing random insults?
tell me merin, obviously you are not very smart and have some social problems, but let me ask you, what does VSO stand for?
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Jada Maroo
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Posted - 2011.01.09 03:14:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
2) You may notice a tiny little detail here: Obama isn't hinting at violent revolution, last time I checked.
No, he's just close friends with, and mentored by, someone who actually tried to do it.
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