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Minn Finn
Minn Finn School of Chinn
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Posted - 2011.01.08 19:18:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Minn Finn on 08/01/2011 19:29:35 Edited by: Minn Finn on 08/01/2011 19:28:13 Edited by: Minn Finn on 08/01/2011 19:28:03 Breaking news. More to come when I (or others) find links.
Her situation is critical.
Gabrielle Gifford shot and killed critical. Six others killed, 11 wounded.
At least three sheeted bodies confirmed, via witness call in's.
Linkage 1 Linkage 2 --------------------- MFC Industrial Lotto Vaerah Vahrokha Secured PUBLIC CHANNEL: MFC LOTTO |
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Legion
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Posted - 2011.01.08 19:19:00 -
[2]
LINKAGE!
Linkage here now.
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2011.01.08 19:31:00 -
[3]
Why do people continue to give these nutjobs guns
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Mazzarins Demise
Profit Development and Research Association
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Posted - 2011.01.08 19:53:00 -
[4]
What a shame.
Nobody knows for sure if she was killed in the act though. NPR and such now say it's conflicting, while other news venues such as Fox confirm she is alive and in critical condition.
Hopefully she makes it through, as well as everybody else. _________________________________________
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Shameless Avenger
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Posted - 2011.01.08 19:55:00 -
[5]
Criminals who want a gun to commit a crime will get the gun even if getting the gun is a crime in itself... duh. So, in before the omg-we-need-gun-laws, gun laws will prevent nothing.
Now, lets focus on why she was shot.
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Mazzarins Demise
Profit Development and Research Association
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Posted - 2011.01.08 19:58:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Shameless Avenger Criminals who want a gun to commit a crime will get the gun even if getting the gun is a crime in itself... duh. So, in before the omg-we-need-gun-laws, gun laws will prevent nothing.
Now, lets focus on why she was shot.
Why I loved living in Ohio for a little bit. Very relaxed gun laws there, so the criminals are so afraid to accost people as there's a good chance the civilian is packing. _________________________________________
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RiskyFrisky
Under the Table Inc.
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Posted - 2011.01.08 20:22:00 -
[7]
Edited by: RiskyFrisky on 08/01/2011 20:23:34 So many shootings going on now-a-days...it's getting rather ******ed.
IB4 Gun activists cry about everything. -
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Culmen
Caldari Blood Phage Syndicate Syndicate.
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Posted - 2011.01.08 20:45:00 -
[8]
Wow! Some Fvcktard actually tried that second amendment remedy they were talking about... and further more why do i even need a sig? |
Caleidascope
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2011.01.08 20:48:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Shameless Avenger Criminals who want a gun to commit a crime will get the gun even if getting the gun is a crime in itself... duh. So, in before the omg-we-need-gun-laws, gun laws will prevent nothing.
Now, lets focus on why she was shot.
+1
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Captain Die
Suicide by Cop
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Posted - 2011.01.08 21:08:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Caleidascope
Originally by: Shameless Avenger Criminals who want a gun to commit a crime will get the gun even if getting the gun is a crime in itself... duh. So, in before the omg-we-need-gun-laws, gun laws will prevent nothing.
Now, lets focus on why she was shot.
+1
I guess it's what she believed in. --- DIE |
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar The Python Cartel. The Defenders of Pen Island
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Posted - 2011.01.08 21:39:00 -
[11]
Originally by: RiskyFrisky Edited by: RiskyFrisky on 08/01/2011 20:23:34 So many shootings going on now-a-days...it's getting rather ******ed.
IB4 Gun activists cry about everything.
I blame the MTV
Originally by: Jada Maroo Many legitimate news stories over the past few years would not have been brought to the forefront if not for Fox News.
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Syyl'ara
Gallente Intaki Prosperity Initiative
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Posted - 2011.01.08 21:44:00 -
[12]
Now being reported: "U.S. District Court Judge John M. Roll was among those who had died." |
Yiffi
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Posted - 2011.01.08 22:02:00 -
[13]
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Meiyang Lee
Gallente Azteca Transportation Unlimited Gunboat Diplomacy
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Posted - 2011.01.08 22:29:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Meiyang Lee on 08/01/2011 22:29:47
Originally by: Mazzarins Demise What a shame.
Nobody knows for sure if she was killed in the act though. NPR and such now say it's conflicting, while other news venues such as Fox confirm she is alive and in critical condition.
Hopefully she makes it through, as well as everybody else.
Gawker Article on the shooting
She's alive, in critical condition obviously, but alive. A federal judge also present at the event did die in the attack.
The suspected attacker was taken down by bystanders and arrested, he is 22 years old.
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Kalle Demos
Amarr Hysteria Nexus
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Posted - 2011.01.08 22:31:00 -
[15]
What are the benefits of having a gun?
Hunting Killing
If you think a gun will protect you, you may as well live in a bubble, face it a gun was invented to KILL, dont compare this to knives as knives has soo many uses especially in the kitchen and who really would use a bread knife as a weapon
We should just go back to the old days of carrying swords and learn fencing, the government is not trying to kill you and lets face it if they were believe me you would need more than a gun to protect you.
I have been in alot of messy situations in RL and a gun would never have helped me
Originally by: Kool StoryBro <---
Originally by: CCP Spitfire Spam post removed.
Random forum moments <0> |
Okie Wren
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Posted - 2011.01.08 22:36:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Shameless Avenger Criminals who want a gun to commit a crime will get the gun even if getting the gun is a crime in itself... duh. So, in before the omg-we-need-gun-laws, gun laws will prevent nothing.
Now, lets focus on why she was shot.
If someone is planning a crime that specifically involves a gun, then sure, they'll get one somewhere. But if someone is just thinking "Oh, I haven't been on a killing spree in a while. I'd better get me a weapon!" then they're far less likely to get a gun if guns are harder to find.
For instance whenever there's a story like this in England the people involved usually just use samurai swords or similar.
If you think that controlling guns won't make a difference in violent crime then you'd be delusional. But then again, even the cops are nutjobs, the amount of stories I've read of them going at non violent civilians with tasers is unbelievable.
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Selinate
Amarr Wardens of the Void
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Posted - 2011.01.08 22:55:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Selinate on 08/01/2011 22:55:19
Originally by: Okie Wren
If someone is planning a crime that specifically involves a gun, then sure, they'll get one somewhere. But if someone is just thinking "Oh, I haven't been on a killing spree in a while. I'd better get me a weapon!" then they're far less likely to get a gun if guns are harder to find.
For instance whenever there's a story like this in England the people involved usually just use samurai swords or similar.
If you think that controlling guns won't make a difference in violent crime then you'd be delusional. But then again, even the cops are nutjobs, the amount of stories I've read of them going at non violent civilians with tasers is unbelievable.
"DON'T TASE ME BRO!" comes to mind... Good video...
Obviously, if the current gun laws had done their job, this wouldn't have happened. I'm not sure why any person is allowed to personally own a handgun or a rifle/shotgun that isn't made for hunting (why sell a semi-auto M-4 to a civilian, and not just a hunting rifle 30-06 or something? Doesn't make sense...)
Anywho, guns are bad, mm'kay?
And this is also a truly tragic incident.
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Jada Maroo
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Posted - 2011.01.08 23:17:00 -
[18]
Queue the usual flood of arm-flailing European nanny-state nancies who have no understanding of American culture or our Constitution to whine about those evil, scary guns and OMG who would ever need such a terrible instrument of destruction!
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Kalle Demos
Amarr Hysteria Nexus
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Posted - 2011.01.08 23:22:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Jada Maroo Queue the usual flood of arm-flailing European nanny-state nancies who have no understanding of American culture or our Constitution to whine about those evil, scary guns and OMG who would ever need such a terrible instrument of destruction!
We get it, you use to be cowboys and still want to ride horses and shoot people, but it kindda gets old after a while
Originally by: Kool StoryBro <---
Originally by: CCP Spitfire Spam post removed.
Random forum moments <0> |
TimMc
Brutal Deliverance Extreme Prejudice.
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Posted - 2011.01.08 23:34:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Kalle Demos What are the benefits of having a gun?
Hunting Killing
If you think a gun will protect you, you may as well live in a bubble, face it a gun was invented to KILL, dont compare this to knives as knives has soo many uses especially in the kitchen and who really would use a bread knife as a weapon
We should just go back to the old days of carrying swords and learn fencing, the government is not trying to kill you and lets face it if they were believe me you would need more than a gun to protect you.
I have been in alot of messy situations in RL and a gun would never have helped me
No **** guns are for killing. Someone comes into my house to steal, I'll shoot his legs out. If he tries to kill me, I would kill him.
An individual has no chance against the government, but an armed populace also has the opportunity to put up some sort of resistance against a tyrannical government. In civil war like this, soldiers don't know who is a civilian and who is rebel - making the playing field either level, or forcing the government to just bomb their cooperative civilians.
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Herping yourDerp
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Posted - 2011.01.08 23:36:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Yiffi
that is just wrong.
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Joe Phoenix
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Posted - 2011.01.08 23:36:00 -
[22]
Do i feel sorry for a corporate puppet? **** no!
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Jada Maroo
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Posted - 2011.01.08 23:37:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Kalle Demos
We get it, you use to be cowboys and still want to ride horses and shoot people, but it kindda gets old after a while
Then keep your nose out of our business, thank you very much. The average American couldn't care less what you do in your own country. If you want to willingly disarm yourself and let your government have its way with you, by all means, your country, your laws.
But Europeans sure do seem to like to poke their nose into and offer a bunch of irrelevant opinions on the way we do things within our own borders.
Don't be a nosey busy-body neighbor type. Nobody likes those kinds of people.
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Jada Maroo
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Posted - 2011.01.08 23:43:00 -
[24]
Originally by: TimMc [No **** guns are for killing. Someone comes into my house to steal, I'll shoot his legs out. If he tries to kill me, I would kill him.
I'm sympathetic to you but a word of advice: never do this.
If you point a gun at someone, do so with the understanding that you are using lethal force and aim at the center mass. Shooting people in the leg is something that happens in movies. You're just going to get yourself killed if you try anything fancy.
And honestly it happens so fast you're not going to take time to do it anyway.
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Jada Maroo
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Posted - 2011.01.08 23:45:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Jada Maroo on 08/01/2011 23:46:52
Originally by: Okie Wren
If you think that controlling guns won't make a difference in violent crime then you'd be delusional. But then again, even the cops are nutjobs, the amount of stories I've read of them going at non violent civilians with tasers is unbelievable.
Yeah, all we have to do is look at what a fabulous job strict gun control has done in Los Angeles, Washington DC, Chicago, and Detroit.
Oh, wait...
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Louis deGuerre
Gallente Malevolence. Imperial 0rder
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Posted - 2011.01.09 00:14:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Joe Phoenix Do i feel sorry for a corporate puppet? **** no!
Thanks for sharing. ----- Malevolence. is recruiting. Dive into the world of 0.0 !
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Culmen
Caldari Blood Phage Syndicate Syndicate.
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Posted - 2011.01.09 00:14:00 -
[27]
So it wasn't a tea bagger. Just a regular style whack job and further more why do i even need a sig? |
Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation Hounds of Anarchy
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Posted - 2011.01.09 00:26:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Jada Maroo
Originally by: Kalle Demos
We get it, you use to be cowboys and still want to ride horses and shoot people, but it kindda gets old after a while
Then keep your nose out of our business, thank you very much. The average American couldn't care less what you do in your own country. If you want to willingly disarm yourself and let your government have its way with you, by all means, your country, your laws.
But Europeans sure do seem to like to poke their nose into and offer a bunch of irrelevant opinions on the way we do things within our own borders.
Don't be a nosey busy-body neighbor type. Nobody likes those kinds of people.
hey, I know you guys don't like your own government and for all that it matters to me you can have aaaaalll the guns in the world stashed on your flat for all that I care, as long as you fire them inside your borders. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Okie Wren
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Posted - 2011.01.09 00:32:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Jada Maroo The average American couldn't care less what you do in your own country.
That's because the average American has no conception of life outside America.
Originally by: Jada Maroo
Don't be a nosey busy-body neighbor type. Nobody likes those kinds of people.
Right, because that's not what America does at all.
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.09 00:38:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Joe Phoenix Do i feel sorry for a corporate puppet? **** no!
Thanks for removing any doubt that, in addition to being a liar, a fraud, and the worst CEO in EVE, you are also a worthless sociopath.
Originally by: Culmen So it wasn't a tea bagger. Just a regular style whack job
Sure, it's just a coincidence that he was a fan of the same "revolution against the 'oppressive' government" nonsense the tea party loves. Purely a coincidence that he shot someone who Sarah Palin (you know, a tea party leader) targeted in that campaign ad involving crosshairs over the "enemies". Purely a coincidence that he shot someone whose opponent in the last election organized a gun-range fundraiser to "remove" her.
Yeah, no reason to blame the conservatives on this... -----------
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Jada Maroo
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Posted - 2011.01.09 00:41:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Culmen So it wasn't a tea bagger. Just a regular style whack job
Funny how people ignorant of the actual statistics like to imply that Tea Party members are prone to violence when it's two radical leftist movements, animal rights and environmental extremists, who are responsible for almost all terroristic attacks in the US. Mostly targetting property. If you go by body count, it's Muslims of course.
Dead last? Right wing extremists.
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.09 00:47:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 09/01/2011 00:47:28
Originally by: Jada Maroo
Originally by: Culmen So it wasn't a tea bagger. Just a regular style whack job
Funny how people ignorant of the actual statistics like to imply that Tea Party members are prone to violence when it's two radical leftist movements, animal rights and environmental extremists, who are responsible for almost all terroristic attacks in the US. Mostly targetting property. If you go by body count, it's Muslims of course.
Dead last? Right wing extremists.
Who cares about the general statistics? We're talking about the details of this specific attack, where there are very good reasons to blame right-wing extremists. -----------
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Jada Maroo
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Posted - 2011.01.09 00:47:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Yeah, no reason to blame the conservatives on this...
Yeah those terrible conservatives wishing her dead. Like this guy right here!
Oh, wait again...
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Jada Maroo
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Posted - 2011.01.09 00:50:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Who cares about the general statistics? We're talking about the details of this specific attack, where there are very good reasons to blame right-wing extremists.
You mean this guy who listed the Communist Manifesto as one of his favorite books? Oh yeah, a real right wing Teabagger he is! They're real big on Marx.
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.09 00:51:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 09/01/2011 00:52:27
Originally by: Jada Maroo
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Yeah, no reason to blame the conservatives on this...
Yeah those terrible conservatives wishing her dead. Like this guy right here!
Oh, wait again...
Do you honestly not see a difference between saying "she's dead to me" and using campaign ads with crosshairs over your "enemies" while advocating "second amendment solutions"? Can you really not see how one of these could encourage violence while one probably wouldn't?
edit:
Yep, purely a coincidence, no reason to blame conservative extremists. -----------
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Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions
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Posted - 2011.01.09 00:51:00 -
[36]
You know it's going to be a Republican shooting a Democrat, when will the profiling start?
Delenda est achura. |
Jada Maroo
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Posted - 2011.01.09 00:54:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Jada Maroo on 09/01/2011 00:57:42
Originally by: Merin Ryskin Do you honestly not see a difference between saying "she's dead to me" and using campaign ads with crosshairs over your "enemies" while advocating "second amendment solutions"? Can you really not see how one of these could encourage violence while one probably wouldn't?
Yeah it was just an innocent rant. That must be way DailyKos scrubbed it from their website earlier today.
Abra Kadabra, and now it's gone!
And it's funny -- I don't see anything in that image up there that calls for "second amentment solutions" to those races like you said above. Is it possible you *gasp* took one thing she said one place, and one thing she said somewhere else about something entirely unrelated, and... conveniently combined them together to form your own strawman narrative?
No, surely you'd never do that!
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.09 01:00:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Jada Maroo
Originally by: Merin Ryskin Do you honestly not see a difference between saying "she's dead to me" and using campaign ads with crosshairs over your "enemies" while advocating "second amendment solutions"? Can you really not see how one of these could encourage violence while one probably wouldn't?
Yeah it was just an innocent rant. That must be way DailyKos scrubbed it from their website earlier today.
Abra Kadabra, and now it's gone!
Oh FFS, why is this complicated? Can you really not see any reason to remove a story criticizing someone who was just shot in the head and nearly DIED besides "looking guilty"? Do ideas of "not the appropriate time" or "in poor taste" not mean anything to you?
And let's not forget that Sarah Palin has pulled the crosshair image, so if deleting is a sign of guilt... -----------
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Jada Maroo
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Posted - 2011.01.09 01:03:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin And let's not forget that Sarah Palin has pulled the crosshair image, so if deleting is a sign of guilt...
Maybe you haven't heard, but that election is kind of over. Your side got hosed, remember?
How long was she supposed to keep an out of date graphic up?
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.09 01:06:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Jada Maroo And it's funny -- I don't see anything in that image up there that calls for "second amentment solutions" to those races like you said above. Is it possible you *gasp* took one thing she said one place, and one thing she said somewhere else about something entirely unrelated, and... conveniently combined them together to form your own strawman narrative?
Where did I say it was in the same image?
And it's hardly "unrelated" when you're a member of a group that talks about "second amendment solutions" (as well as other hints of violent revolution) and use an image with crosshairs over your "enemies". Only an idiot could fail to see the general theme here.
Quote: By the way, just so you don't dig yourself any deeper, it was Sharron Angle who coind the phrase second amentmend solution, and she used it in the same context as Thomas Jefferson would have.
And your point is? Both are members of the same group, and neither has come out and said "this person does not represent my views or the views of the tea party, do not listen to her".
PS: I'd say comparison with Jefferson's use is laughable and that the "oppression" the tea party is crying about is so much more trivial, but I guess we DID fight a war because we weren't happy about taxes... -----------
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.09 01:09:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Jada Maroo Maybe you haven't heard, but that election is kind of over. Your side got hosed, remember?
Last time I checked, a major reason why the democrats lost was because they weren't liberal enough, and people like me didn't bother to vote for them.
Quote: How long was she supposed to keep an out of date graphic up?
So it's not at all a coincidence that it would stay up months after the election, and only get taken down when one of the people under those crosshairs actually got shot? I'm sure we all believe that today was the day it was scheduled to be removed (planned long ago), and today's events have nothing to do with that decision... -----------
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Ademaro Imre
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.01.09 01:11:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Sure, it's just a coincidence that he was a fan of the same "revolution against the 'oppressive' government" nonsense the tea party loves. Purely a coincidence that he shot someone who Sarah Palin (you know, a tea party leader) targeted in that campaign ad involving crosshairs over the "enemies". Purely a coincidence that he shot someone whose opponent in the last election organized a gun-range fundraiser to "remove" her.
Yeah, no reason to blame the conservatives on this...
You are still going on about Sarah Palin?
Do you believe, putting an icon of a cross hair, in the general vicinity within the outline of a state border leads people to kill? Have you even seen the graphic? You honestly believe that the media and politicians have never used the term "target" or "crosshairs" before Sara Palin? Odd, that his classmates describe him as a leftist.
Have you never been to a firing range? I shoot at bullseyes, not crosshairs. I guess, to you, a crosshair on on a map, is entirely different than bullseyes because this does not bother you.
He was a fan against the government mind control, and government control of grammar. Only a moron could someone link that with any political party.
Have you bought any guns lately? I hope someone is watching you.
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Okie Wren
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Posted - 2011.01.09 01:11:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Okie Wren on 09/01/2011 01:14:21 Someone hasn't learned that arguing with Merin is like challenging a brick wall to a fist fight, you're going to lose eventually.
I also predict another emote coming along, people only use those when they think they're winning and Jada uses them every other post.
Quote: You honestly believe that the media and politicians have never used the term "target" or "crosshairs" before Sara Palin? Odd, that his classmates describe him as a leftist.
Have you never been to a firing range? I shoot at bullseyes, not crosshairs.
The bullseye is the target and the crosshairs are used to aim with, it's like saying "I've got you in my sights". Merin was suggesting that the use of crosshairs on their own is nothing in itself, but paired with the phrase "second amendment solutions" gives it meaning.
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Jada Maroo
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Posted - 2011.01.09 01:12:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin Last time I checked, a major reason why the democrats lost was because they weren't liberal enough, and people like me didn't bother to vote for them.
Oh, god, I sincerely hope they actually believe that and run with it.
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Pr1ncess Alia
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Posted - 2011.01.09 01:16:00 -
[45]
Originally by: baltec1 Why do people continue to give these nutjobs guns
because when society permits civil freedoms, as it should, the society takes on certain responsibilities that some individuals cannot handle.
it is an accepted risk. the phrase is cliche and often misused, but this is what that line 'freedom isn't free' is all about.
certainly a tragic event. it's terrible when people turn to senseless violence
i hope people whose political rhetoric includes hinting at this sort of thing being inevitable or acceptable think twice, we have too much divisive and hateful talk in this country.
--- Players are losing faith and loyalty in CCP due previous expansions not living up to player expectations. The CSM and CCP agreed that expectation management can be improved |
Jada Maroo
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Posted - 2011.01.09 01:17:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Jada Maroo on 09/01/2011 01:17:45
Originally by: Okie Wren I also predict another emote coming along, people only use those when they think they're winning and Jada uses them every other post.
It's hard not to laugh at someone who stretches and contorts to such an extent when trying to debate that they actually take words from the mouth of one person, put them in the mouth of another, and tries to base their argument on it when they seemingly have no realization that they are even talking about two different people.
So ya, I have a hard time taking him/her/it very seriously.
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stoicfaux
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.01.09 01:17:00 -
[47]
The guy appears to be mentally disturbed. the-crazed-internet-rantings-of-jared-loughner
I don't think either US political party can claim him. Plus one witness says he was just firing randomly.
As for the gun control debate. Here's my bit of uber wisdom: Slaves don't have guns. That's the primary reason for allowing your citizens to possess firearms.
It's probably going to take awhile before we find out why/how a mentally disturbed individual was in possession of a handgun with an extended clip.
----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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Okie Wren
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Posted - 2011.01.09 01:21:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Okie Wren on 09/01/2011 01:22:57
Originally by: Jada Maroo
It's hard not to laugh at someone who stretches and contorts to such an extent when trying to debate that they actually take words from the mouth of one person, put them in the mouth of another, and tries to base their argument on it when they seemingly have no realization that they are even talking about two different people.
So ya, I have a hard time taking him/her/it very seriously.
To be honest it just makes you look smug.
I mean would it kill you to be a little more humble?
Quote: Except it's not paired with the phrase, and it was Sharron Angle who said it. But yeah, OTHER than the fact that the two were in no way related I can totally see the point you're making.
Hey, I'm staying out of this one. I was just explaining it that other guy as Merin said it.
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.09 01:22:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Ademaro Imre Do you believe, putting an icon of a cross hair, in the general vicinity within the outline of a state border leads people to kill? Have you even seen the graphic?
When used as a part of a general trend of images suggesting violent revolution, do I think that it could lead someone who already has serious issues to do violent things? Yes.
Quote: Odd, that his classmates describe him as a leftist.
A classmate, from years ago, carries more weight than his current statements or the tea party propaganda encouraging violent actions, both in general and against the specific victim?
Quote: Have you never been to a firing range? I shoot at bullseyes, not crosshairs. I guess, to you, a crosshair on on a map, is entirely different than bullseyes because this does not bother you.
Oh FFS, really? It's totally innocent because instead of a bullseye target they put the view you'd see looking down the scope before killing someone? Are you really this desperate?
Quote: He was a fan against the government mind control, and government control of grammar. Only a moron could someone link that with any political party.
Funny how there's a high overlap between extremist conservative-libertarian tinfoil hatters and tea party membership... -----------
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Ademaro Imre
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.01.09 01:24:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Originally by: Ademaro Imre Do you believe, putting an icon of a cross hair, in the general vicinity within the outline of a state border leads people to kill? Have you even seen the graphic?
When used as a part of a general trend of images suggesting violent revolution, do I think that it could lead someone who already has serious issues to do violent things? Yes.
A trend of images? Show the trend of images that leads to tiny icons.
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Jada Maroo
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Posted - 2011.01.09 01:24:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Jada Maroo on 09/01/2011 01:27:04
Originally by: Okie Wren To be honest it just makes you look smug.
I mean would it kill you to be a little more humble?
Why? I'm right, and the other poster can't even get their facts straight about who said what. If they won't pay me the courtesy of being informed, then they can deal with smugness when I have to waste my time correcting them.
And I'm not going after you for this. Just explaining to you that I find willful ignorance annoying so I tend to adopt an attitude with people like that which is also annoying.
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Ademaro Imre
Caldari
|
Posted - 2011.01.09 01:28:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Quote: Have you never been to a firing range? I shoot at bullseyes, not crosshairs. I guess, to you, a crosshair on on a map, is entirely different than bullseyes because this does not bother you.
Oh FFS, really? It's totally innocent because instead of a bullseye target they put the view you'd see looking down the scope before killing someone? Are you really this desperate?
So, the crosshairs used in a scope, helped push the man into killing people with a weapon that he was not using a scope with? And the use of bullseyes would never have pushed this person, only crosshairs. Is that what you are saying?
Originally by: Ademaro Imre He was a fan against the government mind control, and government control of grammar. Only a moron could someone link that with any political party.
Originally by: Merin Ryskin Funny how there's a high overlap between extremist conservative-libertarian tinfoil hatters and tea party membership...
Really, there is a high overlap about grammar control? Mind control? Dream States? Have you watched his youtube videos?
Seriously, you need to put your knives and guns down, you are goign to hurt someone soon.
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.09 01:30:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Ademaro Imre A trend of images? Show the trend of images that leads to tiny icons.
Have you even looked at tea party propaganda? Can you honestly say that you can't see a trend of using images of violent revolution? Remember "second amendment solutions"? Having a gun-range fundraiser to "remove" the representative who was shot today? Bringing guns to a town hall meeting to "show support for the second amendment"? Can we even count the number of times they've used that quote about "watering the tree of liberty with the blood of tyrants"? -----------
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Jada Maroo
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Posted - 2011.01.09 01:33:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Jada Maroo on 09/01/2011 01:34:28
And yet, year after year after year after year radical leftists take all the top slots on the FBI terrorism list. I'm beginning to think maybe we should screen for politics before we let these people on airplanes. I mean, you've really got to work to come in on top of the radical Islamists.
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.09 01:36:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Ademaro Imre So, the crosshairs used in a scope, helped push the man into killing people with a weapon that he was not using a scope with? And the use of bullseyes would never have pushed this person, only crosshairs. Is that what you are saying?
Do you even realize how desperate you sound when you're nitpicking the specific details of the weapon he used?
The simple fact is Sarah Palin used an image hinting at violence against her political opponents, as part of a trend of images/speeches/etc involving hints of violence against political opponents. Fortunately, most tea party members are able to limit themselves to fantasies about violent revolution, and we don't have 20 dead politicians as a result. However, it is not difficult to imagine that a tiny minority of people who, for whatever reasons, are already more prone to violence could follow that image (and similar propaganda) to the inevitable conclusion.
Quote: Really, there is a high overlap about grammar control? Mind control? Dream States? Have you watched his youtube videos?
My point is not that his specific tinfoil hattery has a high overlap, but that a very high percentage of anti-government conspiracy theorists in general are conservative-libertarians, a group which tends to overlap significantly with the tea party. -----------
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Ademaro Imre
Caldari
|
Posted - 2011.01.09 01:36:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Ademaro Imre on 09/01/2011 01:37:56
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Originally by: Ademaro Imre A trend of images? Show the trend of images that leads to tiny icons.
Have you even looked at tea party propaganda? Can you honestly say that you can't see a trend of using images of violent revolution? Remember "second amendment solutions"? Having a gun-range fundraiser to "remove" the representative who was shot today? Bringing guns to a town hall meeting to "show support for the second amendment"? Can we even count the number of times they've used that quote about "watering the tree of liberty with the blood of tyrants"?
Ok, trend of images. Link some images.
Shooting range fundraisers are held everywhere. So, Loughner was at the fund raiser? Is that what you are suggesting? Did someone channel their presence at the fundraiser to thim through what he claims to be government mind control?
Someone exercised their right to carry a weapon, is that the instance, that made Loughner to believe, he should shoot a 2nd Amendment supporter? Are you saying Lougher is anti-gun?
Maybe you should count for us how many times that quote was used, because its very seldom used, especially in the context of Giffords being a tyrant.
And just for laughs, why don't you believe that the WV governoner (democrat), picking up a rifle, shooting at a document representing US Law in repeated TV political ads, does not inspire anyone?
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.09 01:38:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Jada Maroo And yet, year after year after year after year radical leftists take all the top slots on the FBI terrorism list. I'm beginning to think maybe we should screen for politics before we let these people on airplanes. I mean, you've really got to work to come in on top of the radical Islamists.
As you said, left-wing terrorists tend to focus on property damage. Yes, wrecking an animal-testing lab is a crime, but there's a huge difference between that and shooting your political opponents in the head. -----------
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Jada Maroo
|
Posted - 2011.01.09 01:41:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
The simple fact is Sarah Palin used an image hinting at violence against her political opponents, as part of a trend of images/speeches/etc involving hints of violence against political opponents.
I like how you've not-so-subtley backtracked from implying Sarah Palin called for violence only to widdle yourself down to her "hinting" while pointing to vague "trends." |
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
|
Posted - 2011.01.09 01:42:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 09/01/2011 01:43:22
Originally by: Ademaro Imre Ok, trend of images. Link some images.
"Images" as in the kind which can include verbal statements, etc. You know, "second amendment solutions", quoting revolutionary war propaganda, etc. Only an oblivious idiot would deny that the tea party wants to compare themselves to a violent revolution.
Quote: Shooting range fundraisers are held everywhere. So, Loughner was at the fund raiser? Is that what you are suggesting? Did someone channel their presence at the fundraiser to thim through what he claims to be government mind control?
Have you READ the advertising for that fundraiser? No, it doesn't explicitly say "let's kill her", but there is definitely a strong hint of violent revolution in there.
Quote: Someone exercised their right to carry a weapon, is that the instance, that made Loughner to believe, he should shoot a 2nd Amendment supporter? Are you saying Lougher is anti-gun?
Oh FFS, do you really think that "second amendment solutions" has anything to do with the right to peacefully carry a gun?
Hint for the clueless: it's about violent revolution.
Quote: Maybe you should count for us how many times that quote was used, because its very seldom used, especially in the context of Giffords being a tyrant.
Are you honestly that clueless? The tea party and its followers LOVE that quote. I can't even count the number of times I've heard/seen it used by conservative-libertarians.
Quote: And just for laughs, why don't you believe that the WV governoner (democrat), picking up a rifle, shooting at a document representing US Law in repeated TV political ads, does not inspire anyone?
1) I never said I approve of that either.
2) There's a difference between shooting at documents and hinting at violence against people, especially when you start listing specific names. |
Pr1ncess Alia
|
Posted - 2011.01.09 01:43:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Pr1ncess Alia on 09/01/2011 01:44:42
Originally by: Ademaro Imre Link some images.
meh
edit: you may note that the subject of OP conversation is on that list |
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Jada Maroo
|
Posted - 2011.01.09 01:44:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin but there's a huge difference between that and shooting your political opponents in the head.
There is indeed. Except this guy was neither a right winger nor a left winger. He was, by any measure, simply a schizophrenic nut and you're trying to capitalize on the actions of a nutcase to score a cheap politcal point.
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stoicfaux
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.01.09 01:45:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Jada Maroo
Originally by: Culmen So it wasn't a tea bagger. Just a regular style whack job
Funny how people ignorant of the actual statistics like to imply that Tea Party members are prone to violence when it's two radical leftist movements, animal rights and environmental extremists, who are responsible for almost all terroristic attacks in the US. Mostly targetting property. If you go by body count, it's Muslims of course.
Dead last? Right wing extremists.
Oh, I don't know about that. Timothy McVeigh is probably in second place.
Also, don't forget hate crimes, the people who died in the Civil Rights movement, the internment of Japanese-Americans in the US, Slavery, and the systematic killing of or forced relocation of the US Native Americans.
Plenty of sin for everyone.
----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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Ademaro Imre
Caldari
|
Posted - 2011.01.09 01:45:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia Edited by: Pr1ncess Alia on 09/01/2011 01:44:42
Originally by: Ademaro Imre Link some images.
meh
edit: you may note that the subject of OP conversation is on that list
Trend. Do you know what a trend is?
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Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions
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Posted - 2011.01.09 01:46:00 -
[64]
Bring Palin to justice!
Delenda est achura. |
Okie Wren
|
Posted - 2011.01.09 01:46:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia
meh
edit: you may note that the subject of OP conversation is on that list
I think that one has already been posted
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Pr1ncess Alia
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Posted - 2011.01.09 01:47:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Ademaro Imre
Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia Edited by: Pr1ncess Alia on 09/01/2011 01:44:42
Originally by: Ademaro Imre Link some images.
meh
edit: you may note that the subject of OP conversation is on that list
Trend. Do you know what a trend is?
i wasn't overly concerned with your specific argument.
--- Players are losing faith and loyalty in CCP due previous expansions not living up to player expectations. The CSM and CCP agreed that expectation management can be improved |
Ademaro Imre
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.01.09 01:50:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
1) I never said I approve of that either.
2) There's a difference between shooting at documents and hinting at violence against people, especially when you start listing specific names.
Ever shoot a BB gun? They use crosshairs. Nerf guns use crosshairs too. My rubberband shooter has a crosshair.
You're funny, because you can't even make the argument Loughner ever seen Palin's fundraiser letter. But, he has certainly acted on it. Do you believe in the same mind control as Loughner? Do you own any knives or guns that LEA should be aware of?
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Jada Maroo
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Posted - 2011.01.09 01:50:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin Hint for the clueless: it's about violent revolution.
You sure you're not talking about Obama's good friend Bill Ayers -- you know, the actual terrorist who wanted to bring down the government and who later editted and proofed Obama's autobiography? The guy whose home Obama's career started in? The guy who was part of an organization whose end game was to kill millions of Americans?
Sounds like a shady character. Maybe we should look into him. ANd that Obama character too. He seems to hang around a lot revolutionary Marxists.
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Jada Maroo
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Posted - 2011.01.09 01:55:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Jada Maroo on 09/01/2011 01:56:09
Originally by: stoicfaux Oh, I don't know about that. Timothy McVeigh is probably in second place.
Also, don't forget hate crimes, the people who died in the Civil Rights movement, the internment of Japanese-Americans in the US, Slavery, and the systematic killing of or forced relocation of the US Native Americans.
Plenty of sin for everyone.
I was using the statistics from 1999 up to 2009. Timothy McVeigh was a remarkable exception and I believe he's second for body count in the modern era. In terms of raw numbers of attacks radical leftists have held the crown for decades though. The aforementioned Obama-buddy Bill Ayers accounted for several of them.
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Okie Wren
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Posted - 2011.01.09 01:58:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Ademaro Imre
Ever shoot a BB gun? They use crosshairs. Nerf guns use crosshairs too. My rubberband shooter has a crosshair.
Don't play coy. We all know that crosshairs are strongly associated with weapons, and no, they weren't thinking of the toy kind.
I'm not trying to take sides here but you two have been going back and forth on this point for ages now.
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stoicfaux
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.01.09 02:02:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Jada Maroo I like how you've not-so-subtley backtracked from implying Sarah Palin called for violence only to widdle yourself down to her "hinting" while pointing to vague "trends."
You all are missing the point.
The problem with "tasteless" images such as Palin's crosshairs and her "reload" slogan is that some idiot will take it to a new level. That idiot's stunt will often backlash all the way back.
For example: Gifford's political opponent, Jesse Kelly, ran this advertisement:
"Get on Target for Victory in November Help remove Gabrielle Giffords from office Shoot a full automatic M16 with Jesse Kelly"
And now we have some nut job who's facebook profile supposedly has Tea Party links.
Which means that Palin can't even make the claim that she doesn't support violence in the political process. Her cutesy gun slogans and analogies have probably just ended her political career.
----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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Ademaro Imre
Caldari
|
Posted - 2011.01.09 02:03:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Ademaro Imre on 09/01/2011 02:03:34
Originally by: Okie Wren
Originally by: Ademaro Imre
Ever shoot a BB gun? They use crosshairs. Nerf guns use crosshairs too. My rubberband shooter has a crosshair.
Don't play coy. We all know that crosshairs are strongly associated with weapons, and no, they weren't thinking of the toy kind.
I'm not trying to take sides here but you two have been going back and forth on this point for ages now.
Exactly, I am waiting for a plausible explanation as to why a crosshair is so symbolically more important than a bullseye that Democrats have repeatedly used to list Republicans. That's the part you need to follow.
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Selinate
Amarr Wardens of the Void
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Posted - 2011.01.09 02:05:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Selinate on 09/01/2011 02:05:58
Originally by: Ademaro Imre Edited by: Ademaro Imre on 09/01/2011 02:03:34
Originally by: Okie Wren
Originally by: Ademaro Imre
Ever shoot a BB gun? They use crosshairs. Nerf guns use crosshairs too. My rubberband shooter has a crosshair.
Don't play coy. We all know that crosshairs are strongly associated with weapons, and no, they weren't thinking of the toy kind.
I'm not trying to take sides here but you two have been going back and forth on this point for ages now.
Exactly, I am waiting for a plausible explanation as to why a crosshair is so symbolically more important than a bullseye that Democrats have repeatedly used to list Republicans. That's the part you need to follow.
Link to source? Your opponent at least posted this pic that they were referring to.
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Ademaro Imre
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.01.09 02:07:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Ademaro Imre on 09/01/2011 02:07:16
Originally by: stoicfaux
And now we have some nut job who's facebook profile supposedly has Tea Party links.
Which means that Palin can't even make the claim that she doesn't support violence in the political process. Her cutesy gun slogans and analogies have probably just ended her political career.
As much as you may wish it to be true, Palin's career is not going to end.
And, just to bring you to reality, the Communist Manifesto, that Loughner actually did say he liked on his social pages, is diametrically opposite of the Tea Party.
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Ademaro Imre
Caldari
|
Posted - 2011.01.09 02:09:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Selinate
Link to source? Your opponent at least posted this pic that they were referring to.
I linked it a page back.....
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1445037&page=2#42
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Selinate
Amarr Wardens of the Void
|
Posted - 2011.01.09 02:11:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Ademaro Imre
Originally by: Selinate
Link to source? Your opponent at least posted this pic that they were referring to.
I linked it a page back.....
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1445037&page=2#42
Uh huh... And who exactly made that map?
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stoicfaux
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.01.09 02:13:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Jada Maroo
I was using the statistics from 1999 up to 2009. Timothy McVeigh was a remarkable exception and I believe he's second for body count in the modern era. In terms of raw numbers of attacks radical leftists have held the crown for decades though. The aforementioned Obama-buddy Bill Ayers accounted for several of them.
Yes, and then we get into the "lies, damn lies, and statistics."
I'll raise you with "Bush illegally invaded Iraq" and killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqis. You can counter with "how many unborn children were murdered by leftist abortion doctors." Tit for tat, ad nauseum.
Can we agree to end this particular line of argument of who has the greater body count, attack count, monetary damage done, etc.?
----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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Ademaro Imre
Caldari
|
Posted - 2011.01.09 02:14:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Selinate
Originally by: Ademaro Imre
Originally by: Selinate
Link to source? Your opponent at least posted this pic that they were referring to.
I linked it a page back.....
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1445037&page=2#42
Uh huh... And who exactly made that map?
This appears to be difficult for you to understand. Democrats made all the maps UNDER the 1st one.
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Jada Maroo
|
Posted - 2011.01.09 02:14:00 -
[79]
Originally by: stoicfaux
Which means that Palin can't even make the claim that she doesn't support violence in the political process. Her cutesy gun slogans and analogies have probably just ended her political career.
That's a massive stretch, and not one that's going to take root.
Seriously, what I'm hearing here is "hints at" and "trends" and now you're pointing at a perfectly benign slogan used by a hunter who regularly tosses hunting terminology and trying to skew it to imply murder terminology.
You really think anyone other than a hardcore leftist is going to buy? That's just not going to happen.
Oh and by the way - remember that guy who tried to shoot the city council members down in Florida a couple weeks back? Guess what he had a link on his Facebook page.
Media Matters for America.
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Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions
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Posted - 2011.01.09 02:15:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Ademaro Imre Edited by: Ademaro Imre on 09/01/2011 02:07:16
Originally by: stoicfaux
And now we have some nut job who's facebook profile supposedly has Tea Party links.
Which means that Palin can't even make the claim that she doesn't support violence in the political process. Her cutesy gun slogans and analogies have probably just ended her political career.
As much as you may wish it to be true, Palin's career is not going to end.
And, just to bring you to reality, the Communist Manifesto, that Loughner actually did say he liked on his social pages, is diametrically opposite of the Tea Party.
What about when he admits Palins encouragement to shoot political opponants was what put him over the edge, is it over then or will the commie ghost plea to that too?
Delenda est achura. |
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Jada Maroo
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Posted - 2011.01.09 02:18:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Ademaro Imre
This appears to be difficult for you to understand. Democrats made all the maps UNDER the 1st one.
That's a really good find. I follow this stuff pretty closely and that's the first time I'd seen all the Democrat-made bull's eye / target maps. Kind of pulls the rug right out from under them on this one. Hopefully, if this comes up tomorrow on MSNBC, which I'm sure it will, those will be used as ammunition to fire back.
Oh noes, I used a gun analogy!
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Selinate
Amarr Wardens of the Void
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Posted - 2011.01.09 02:21:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Ademaro Imre
Originally by: Selinate
Originally by: Ademaro Imre
Originally by: Selinate
Link to source? Your opponent at least posted this pic that they were referring to.
I linked it a page back.....
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1445037&page=2#42
Uh huh... And who exactly made that map?
This appears to be difficult for you to understand. Democrats made all the maps UNDER the 1st one.
No, the difficulty is yours. You're blaming one map made by a Democrat named Will Marshall. Does anyone here know a good deal about this Will Marshall? No. That's because no one cares. The second one? Made by the Democratic Congress Campaign Committee? Are we going to start arguing about this??? Really? Do you understand how absolutely moronic this is? These are the asswipes who are in charge of getting Democrats into office, and yes, just like Republican campaign members, they will smear and say horrible things to get those politicians into office. Is it any better? No. But...
Where your idiocy comes in is that you begin saying "THE DEMOCRATS MADE THIS MAP!!!" as if it's some representation of all the Democrats in the U.S. It's not. The map posted by others IS a representation of Sarah Palin and the Tea Party movement.
Bringing up some obscure map made by obscure people to make a blanket statement about all democrats is just pure... Dear god, you're the kind of person we need to ship to an island and let you live on your own to have your own ideals and shout them at yourself all day...
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stoicfaux
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.01.09 02:21:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Ademaro Imre
As much as you may wish it to be true, Palin's career is not going to end.
I forgot the word 'may' as in 'may end her career.' My bad. One thing I've learned is that nothing is "for sure" in politics.
Quote: And, just to bring you to reality, the Communist Manifesto, that Loughner actually did say he liked on his social pages, is diametrically opposite of the Tea Party.
Correct, the guy has links and odd references and enough crazy talk that I don't think he can be linked to any political party. He was a mentally disturbed individual with a gun and an extended clip. None of the mainstream politicians on the left or right endorse shooting politicians and strangers in real life.
So let's drop the whole "the shooting was caused by the Left/Right" game, please?
----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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Selinate
Amarr Wardens of the Void
|
Posted - 2011.01.09 02:24:00 -
[84]
Originally by: stoicfaux None of the mainstream politicians on the left or right endorse shooting politicians and strangers in real life.
Debatable... Some politicians are just truly scumbags, but I do agree that blaming this tragedy on either side is just absolutely asinine...
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Joe Phoenix
|
Posted - 2011.01.09 02:25:00 -
[85]
Edited by: Joe Phoenix on 09/01/2011 02:26:58 Oh MERIN is on this thread!! I can poke fun at the fat lexbian and nobody will care because everyone hates her/his face
edit: are you still in pain after your last public butt-****ing?
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Jada Maroo
|
Posted - 2011.01.09 02:25:00 -
[86]
Originally by: stoicfaux
So let's drop the whole "the shooting was caused by the Left/Right" game, please?
Agreed, because this guy can't be pinned on anyone. Besides, the more we try to shift responsibility onto some other group or ideology, the less responsibility we place on the murdering sack of crap. I'm not sure why anyone would want to do that.
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente Sigma Special Tactics Group Fleet Coordination Coalition
|
Posted - 2011.01.09 02:28:00 -
[87]
Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer on 09/01/2011 02:28:38 The guns I keep locked up will probably get blamed for this.
I haven't shot anybody and will also get blamed for this.
Nut Jobs Youtube channel is still up
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Joe Phoenix
|
Posted - 2011.01.09 02:29:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Jada Maroo
Originally by: stoicfaux
So let's drop the whole "the shooting was caused by the Left/Right" game, please?
Agreed, because this guy can't be pinned on anyone. Besides, the more we try to shift responsibility onto some other group or ideology, the less responsibility we place on the murdering sack of crap. I'm not sure why anyone would want to do that.
What kill a corrupt politician? WOW thats such a crazy idea i bet nobody in the world has done that before!
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Okie Wren
|
Posted - 2011.01.09 02:30:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Joe Phoenix Edited by: Joe Phoenix on 09/01/2011 02:26:58 Oh MERIN is on this thread!! I can poke fun at the fat lexbian and nobody will care because everyone hates her/his face
edit: are you still in pain after your last public butt-****ing?
Where's my blasted trailer, Joe!
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Ademaro Imre
Caldari
|
Posted - 2011.01.09 02:31:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Selinate
Bringing up some obscure map made by obscure people to make a blanket statement about all democrats is just pure... Dear god, you're the kind of person we need to ship to an island and let you live on your own to have your own ideals and shout them at yourself all day...
Representatives of a political party, and operating arms of a political party are obscure to you?
What is moronic, is not reading this thread, then making your post. When someone claims that crosshairs get people killed and its a trend within one political party, they need to explain why bullseyes do not and why the other political party practices exactly the same type of political fundraising. That's what I asked.
|
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Selinate
Amarr Wardens of the Void
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Posted - 2011.01.09 02:33:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Ademaro Imre
Originally by: Selinate
Bringing up some obscure map made by obscure people to make a blanket statement about all democrats is just pure... Dear god, you're the kind of person we need to ship to an island and let you live on your own to have your own ideals and shout them at yourself all day...
Representatives of a political party, and operating arms of a political party are obscure to you?
What is moronic, is not reading this thread, then making your post. When someone claims that crosshairs get people killed and its a trend within one political party, they need to explain why bullseyes do not and why the other political party practices exactly the same type of political fundraising. That's what I asked.
Yes. You lost. We all know it. Now keep to yourself.
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Ademaro Imre
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.01.09 02:33:00 -
[92]
BTW;
Was that a Generation 3 Glock 19 on Loughner's website? It sure looks like one. Appears to have a trigger safety and rails.
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Joe Phoenix
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Posted - 2011.01.09 02:35:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Okie Wren
Originally by: Joe Phoenix Edited by: Joe Phoenix on 09/01/2011 02:26:58 Oh MERIN is on this thread!! I can poke fun at the fat lexbian and nobody will care because everyone hates her/his face
edit: are you still in pain after your last public butt-****ing?
Where's my blasted trailer, Joe!
IT IS COMING!! I just has some stuff to do with VSO which had me in Africa.
Anyway its better then a trailer, its the first 3 scenes!
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente Sigma Special Tactics Group Fleet Coordination Coalition
|
Posted - 2011.01.09 02:36:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Ademaro Imre BTW;
Was that a Generation 3 Glock 19 on Loughner's website? It sure looks like one. Appears to have a trigger safety and rails.
Yes that's a Gen 3 at best. All of the new ones have equipment rails.
|
Jada Maroo
|
Posted - 2011.01.09 02:36:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer Sad. Arizona is a very gunned up state, and yet nobody shot back. Most Americans are carebears who never expect something bad to happen.
It's possible not many people, even CCL holders, are going to bring a gun to a political rally for fear of being wanded and tackled by the security detail. I'd probably leave mine in my car too if I was going to meet with a congressperson, honestly.
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Yiffi
|
Posted - 2011.01.09 02:38:00 -
[96]
Friend of yours Merin?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nk8H-01cpA
|
stoicfaux
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.01.09 02:40:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer on 09/01/2011 02:33:20
The guns I keep locked up will probably get blamed for this.
I haven't shot anybody and will also get blamed for this.
And ironically, Gifford supports gun rights (but the NRA gave her a D+ rating, but that rating may be partisan based.)
----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
|
Jada Maroo
|
Posted - 2011.01.09 02:40:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Selinate
Yes. You lost. We all know it. Now keep to yourself.
He's not the one who's been left, as a final desperate point of argument, in essence claiming (with a straight face presumably): "That political graphic promotes violence! Yeah! But those other two virtually identical graphics definitely DO NOT promote violence!"
|
Joe Phoenix
|
Posted - 2011.01.09 02:42:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Yiffi Friend of yours Merin?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nk8H-01cpA
ROFL
|
Okie Wren
|
Posted - 2011.01.09 02:42:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Joe Phoenix
IT IS COMING!! I just has some stuff to do with VSO which had me in Africa.
Anyway its better then a trailer, its the first 3 scenes!
Seriously?
Awesome.. if true.
|
|
Ademaro Imre
Caldari
|
Posted - 2011.01.09 02:43:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Jada Maroo
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer Sad. Arizona is a very gunned up state, and yet nobody shot back. Most Americans are carebears who never expect something bad to happen.
It's possible not many people, even CCL holders, are going to bring a gun to a political rally for fear of being wanded and tackled by the security detail. I'd probably leave mine in my car too if I was going to meet with a congressperson, honestly.
I'd say 95% of CC permit holders only have one because they shoot at a range. In my state, its against the law to travel with ammunition and a weapon in the same compartment of a vehicle. For instance, ammunition must be in the trunk and the weapon in the car, or vice versa. If someone leaves a shooting range, and forgets to separate the two from their range bag when at the car, and gets pulled over and searched for whatever reason, or in a car accident, they are looking at mandatory jail time. CC permit eliminates that worry.
|
Selinate
Amarr Wardens of the Void
|
Posted - 2011.01.09 02:44:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Jada Maroo
Originally by: Selinate
Yes. You lost. We all know it. Now keep to yourself.
He's not the one who's been left, as a final desperate point of argument, in essence claiming (with a straight face presumably): "That political graphic promotes violence! Yeah! But those other two virtually identical graphics definitely DO NOT promote violence!"
I never... when did I...
Jesus Christ.... you're an idiot.
|
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
|
Posted - 2011.01.09 02:45:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Joe Phoenix Edited by: Joe Phoenix on 09/01/2011 02:26:58 Oh MERIN is on this thread!! I can poke fun at the fat lexbian and nobody will care because everyone hates her/his face
edit: are you still in pain after your last public butt-****ing?
Yep, Joe Phoenix, shining example of all that is good with humanity.
Oh wait, you're just a bigot AND a sociopath.
PS: how's your fraud of a "movie" going?
Originally by: Joe Phoenix What kill a corrupt politician? WOW thats such a crazy idea i bet nobody in the world has done that before!
Yep, like I said, complete sociopath. Even the tea party people have some basic human sympathy for the victims (or at least pretend to). -----------
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente Sigma Special Tactics Group Fleet Coordination Coalition
|
Posted - 2011.01.09 02:48:00 -
[104]
Originally by: stoicfaux
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer on 09/01/2011 02:33:20
The guns I keep locked up will probably get blamed for this.
I haven't shot anybody and will also get blamed for this.
And ironically, Gifford supports gun rights (but the NRA gave her a D+ rating, but that rating may be partisan based.)
The NRA is crap. GOA is more accurate.
Factions factions factions!!!!!
Funny thing about the political parties: I have brought guns to Republican events and nobody cared but you never hear of anyone doing that at a Democrat event, even when it's just as legal to do so depending on the venue and the state-level laws.
Now for the test: if it's ninny time and this goes in the direction of "the big bad conservatives are out to kill all the democrats we need more gun control" then we will hear about this incident for a while. But if Democrats start to say "hey we need to be able to defend ourselves from this crap" then the media will memory-hole this incident in a few days.
Just look at each case, the blogs that follow the news articles, and the articles themselves. When people start asking "why didn't they have their own guns?" (and Arizona is actually very friendly for gun rights) the media will get real quiet and we won't see much more on this incident. This was like an attempted mass shooting at a large church a couple of years ago where one of the attendees shot the nut job dead in the doorway the moment he started shooting. The next day you had to dig for any news about it.
|
Selinate
Amarr Wardens of the Void
|
Posted - 2011.01.09 02:50:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer
The NRA is crap. GOA is more accurate.
Factions factions factions!!!!!
Funny thing about the political parties: I have brought guns to Republican events and nobody cared but you never hear of anyone doing that at a Democrat event, even when it's just as legal to do so depending on the venue and the state-level laws.
Now for the test: if it's ninny time and this goes in the direction of "the big bad conservatives are out to kill all the democrats we need more gun control" then we will hear about this incident for a while. But if Democrats start to say "hey we need to be able to defend ourselves from this crap" then the media will memory-hole this incident in a few days.
Just look at each case, the blogs that follow the news articles, and the articles themselves. When people start asking "why didn't they have their own guns?" (and Arizona is actually very friendly for gun rights) the media will get real quiet and we won't see much more on this incident. This was like an attempted mass shooting at a large church a couple of years ago where one of the attendees shot the nut job dead in the doorway the moment he started shooting. The next day you had to dig for any news about it.
Given the political nature of such a debate, I really doubt that the news coverage will die if the Democrats start going down that route...
|
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
|
Posted - 2011.01.09 02:50:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Jada Maroo Agreed, because this guy can't be pinned on anyone. Besides, the more we try to shift responsibility onto some other group or ideology, the less responsibility we place on the murdering sack of crap. I'm not sure why anyone would want to do that.
It's not about removing any responsiblity from the murderer (the world will be a better place when he is executed for his crimes), it's about pointing out that actions have consequences. The tea party needs to realize the irresponsibility of their violent propaganda and stop doing it.
Originally by: Ademaro Imre What is moronic, is not reading this thread, then making your post. When someone claims that crosshairs get people killed and its a trend within one political party, they need to explain why bullseyes do not and why the other political party practices exactly the same type of political fundraising. That's what I asked.
The difference is simple:
The tea party has been doing two things:
1) Comparing themselves to the revolution that started this country (quoting appropriate propaganda, etc). Whether it was justified or not, that was a VIOLENT revolution.
2) Using language/images/etc that suggest violence against political opponents.
The democrats, as a whole, have not. -----------
|
Jhagiti Tyran
|
Posted - 2011.01.09 02:51:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Shameless Avenger Criminals who want a gun to commit a crime will get the gun even if getting the gun is a crime in itself... duh. So, in before the omg-we-need-gun-laws, gun laws will prevent nothing.
Now, lets focus on why she was shot.
Rubbish, its no coincidence than in England the type of gun most often used in crime is the gun that is the easiest to obtain legally.
|
Joe Phoenix
|
Posted - 2011.01.09 02:54:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Originally by: Joe Phoenix Edited by: Joe Phoenix on 09/01/2011 02:26:58 Oh MERIN is on this thread!! I can poke fun at the fat lexbian and nobody will care because everyone hates her/his face
edit: are you still in pain after your last public butt-****ing?
Yep, Joe Phoenix, shining example of all that is good with humanity.
Oh wait, you're just a bigot AND a sociopath.
PS: how's your fraud of a "movie" going?
Originally by: Joe Phoenix What kill a corrupt politician? WOW thats such a crazy idea i bet nobody in the world has done that before!
Yep, like I said, complete sociopath. Even the tea party people have some basic human sympathy for the victims (or at least pretend to).
I'm British hense i must take part in "tea parties", oh dear.
No merin its known as the greater good.
|
Ademaro Imre
Caldari
|
Posted - 2011.01.09 02:58:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
The tea party has been doing two things:
1) Comparing themselves to the revolution that started this country (quoting appropriate propaganda, etc). Whether it was justified or not, that was a VIOLENT revolution.
2) Using language/images/etc that suggest violence against political opponents.
The democrats, as a whole, have not.
Tea party, Sarah Palin, tea party.........
Has it ever occured to you ONCE, that there may be a link between Loughner's atheism, his likes of the Communist Manifesto, and Mein Kampf, and Giffords being a Jew?
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente Sigma Special Tactics Group Fleet Coordination Coalition
|
Posted - 2011.01.09 02:59:00 -
[110]
By the way, a brief note on "shooting politicians".
I have worked in the circles of firearms training for close to 15 years now and worked alongside the sort of people who not only are capable of shooting a lot of people with guns, at any range, but could, when they get their friends together, change over a whole government.
Now in cases like this, there is is usual crowd trying to state that people who are skilled in the use of arms are "out to get the establishment" because of some threat or perception of it. Usually those who actually try that tend to be nut jobs and tend to be crap shooters too. If someone with real skill ever did a mass shooting, or something like the DC Sniper, there would be a lot of dead bodies.
So I once asked one of these modern Supermen "Why don't you or some guys like you ever <insert government altering violent action here>?" and I got my ass chewed on. Why?
Because every "operator" who knows the ways of the gun will ask you "what difference does it make?".
You see, killing politicians and judges does not make a difference. All it really does is make a martyr out of a crook, and then some years later there will be a new Federal building named after the victim in a town or city that does not currently have a federal building, and that new building will be home to a new swarm of agents "sent to harrass the people" as Jefferson would put it.
So I, as have others, who, in learning how to be very effective with weapons, have also learned that the weapons have limits. This is especially the case in a democracy. Kill the corrupt, or the right-winger, or the left-winger, or the good guy, and the people will simply elect another one after canonizing the dead one. Sure there are cases where it did matter in smaller countries, but there were already factions (CIA, Communists, etc) funding different groups with their own leaders getting ready to take over.
So I can pretty much vouch for myself and other gunmen, trainers, operators, and soldiers, when I say that nobody I know thinks there is anything positive to come out of killing people, especially politicians and judges.
This is why such killings are rare in the United States, and usually carried out by nuts and in a cloud of suspicious circumstances that the media will not be very open about.
|
|
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
|
Posted - 2011.01.09 03:01:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Joe Phoenix I'm British hense i must take part in "tea parties", oh dear.
And you're illiterate too.
I didn't say you were a member of the tea party, I said even the tea party members are better than you. -----------
|
Jada Maroo
|
Posted - 2011.01.09 03:01:00 -
[112]
Edited by: Jada Maroo on 09/01/2011 03:03:46 Edited by: Jada Maroo on 09/01/2011 03:01:59
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
It's not about removing any responsiblity from the murderer (the world will be a better place when he is executed for his crimes), it's about pointing out that actions have consequences. The tea party needs to realize the irresponsibility of their violent propaganda and stop doing it.
Why would the Tea Party do anything differently based on the actions of a schitzophrenic with no coherent political philosophy? Do you go through life basing your actions and words on the possible reactions of crazy people?
And I'm still wondering when you're going to start applying these standards to Barack Obama. Sarah Palin never referred to a terrorist as her mentor. Sarah Palin didn't start her political career in a terrorist's living room. Sarah Palin didn't have a terrorist help write her biography. Sarah Palin's pastor didn't say the US brought the 9/11 attacks on itself.
It's a funny double standard you have there.
Quote: The difference is simple:
The tea party has been doing two things:
1) Comparing themselves to the revolution that started this country (quoting appropriate propaganda, etc). Whether it was justified or not, that was a VIOLENT revolution.
2) Using language/images/etc that suggest violence against political opponents.
The democrats, as a whole, have not.
Yeah, they actually do it.
|
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
|
Posted - 2011.01.09 03:03:00 -
[113]
Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 09/01/2011 03:05:32
Originally by: Ademaro Imre Tea party, Sarah Palin, tea party.........
Has it ever occured to you ONCE, that there may be a link between Loughner's atheism, his likes of the Communist Manifesto, and Mein Kampf, and Giffords being a Jew?
Did Loughner have links and "likes" about Sarah Palin as much as he did for The Communist Manifesto and Mein Kampf?
So under your theory, it's just pure coincidence that the person he picked to kill just happened to be a politician the tea party has used violent language/images about?
Originally by: Jada Maroo Why would the Tea Party do anything differently based on the actions of a schitzophrenic with no coherent political philosophy? Do you go through life basing your actions and words on the possible reactions of crazy people?
Maybe because the tea party realizes that it could be a bad idea to use violent language/images/etc because some people might take it seriously?
Quote: And I'm still wondering when you're going to start applying these standards to Barack Obama. Sarah Palin never referred to a terrorist as her mentor. Sarah Palin didn't start her political career in a terrorist's living room. Sarah Palin didn't have a terrorist help write her biography. Sarah Palin's pastor didn't say the US brought the 9/11 attacks on itself.
1) Who said I liked Obama? I think he's a terrible president.
2) You may notice a tiny little detail here: Obama isn't hinting at violent revolution, last time I checked.
It's a funny double standard you have there.
-----------
|
Joe Phoenix
|
Posted - 2011.01.09 03:03:00 -
[114]
Merin just called a VSO volunteer a sociopath? Oh what sweet irony
|
Okie Wren
|
Posted - 2011.01.09 03:09:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Jhagiti Tyran
Rubbish, its no coincidence than in England the type of gun most often used in crime is the gun that is the easiest to obtain legally.
But is that because people who use these guns in crime are able to obtain them legally, or just because it's the most abundant because of it's legality?
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente Sigma Special Tactics Group Fleet Coordination Coalition
|
Posted - 2011.01.09 03:10:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Selinate
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer
The NRA is crap. GOA is more accurate.
Factions factions factions!!!!!
Funny thing about the political parties: I have brought guns to Republican events and nobody cared but you never hear of anyone doing that at a Democrat event, even when it's just as legal to do so depending on the venue and the state-level laws.
Now for the test: if it's ninny time and this goes in the direction of "the big bad conservatives are out to kill all the democrats we need more gun control" then we will hear about this incident for a while. But if Democrats start to say "hey we need to be able to defend ourselves from this crap" then the media will memory-hole this incident in a few days.
Just look at each case, the blogs that follow the news articles, and the articles themselves. When people start asking "why didn't they have their own guns?" (and Arizona is actually very friendly for gun rights) the media will get real quiet and we won't see much more on this incident. This was like an attempted mass shooting at a large church a couple of years ago where one of the attendees shot the nut job dead in the doorway the moment he started shooting. The next day you had to dig for any news about it.
Given the political nature of such a debate, I really doubt that the news coverage will die if the Democrats start going down that route...
yep...
Political Hacks Waste No Time In Shamelessly Exploiting Giffords Shooting To Demonize Political Oppositon
From the article (interesting)
UPDATE: This is allegedly Jared LoughnerÆs You Tube Channel. He lists his favorite books as Mein Kampf and The Communist Manifesto. There is no evidence of any Tea Party/Ron Paul/patriot movement affiliation, much to the disappointment of the Huffington Post, but Fox News and others are hastily building his profile as a nutcase conspiracy theorist.
UPDATE: A second man has been arrested in connection with the shooting, while a third man is also being sought. Expect the media to bury this.
UPDATE: Reports suggest that the gunman is a 22-year-old white male named Jared Loughner, an Arizona native.
UPDATE: Amidst a widespread assault on gun rights, we learn that the gunman was stopped after he was shot at by someone in the crowd exercising their second amendment.
UPDATE: GiffordsÆ father has told the New York Post that ôthe entire Tea Partyö were enemies of his daughter, suggesting that a Tea Partier was behind the shooting. However, Giffords is a blue dog Democrat who is pro-border control and pro-second amendment - an unusual target for a ôtea partierö.
|
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
|
Posted - 2011.01.09 03:11:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Joe Phoenix Merin just called a VSO volunteer a sociopath? Oh what sweet irony
How desperate must you be when you're bragging about your volunteering like that? One might almost suspect that your motives for volunteering (if you even did) have less to do with altruism than with making yourself look good...
And yes, I'm calling the person who said "Do i feel sorry for a corporate puppet? **** no!" a sociopath. Go read a dictionary if you have trouble seeing how "lack of sympathy for murder victims" could possibly make you a sociopath. -----------
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente Sigma Special Tactics Group Fleet Coordination Coalition
|
Posted - 2011.01.09 03:13:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Okie Wren
Originally by: Jhagiti Tyran
Rubbish, its no coincidence than in England the type of gun most often used in crime is the gun that is the easiest to obtain legally.
But is that because people who use these guns in crime are able to obtain them legally, or just because it's the most abundant because of it's legality?
It's an either or situation. Sometimes the gun is stolen, sometimes it was obtained through legal channels. What is generally accepted in the US is that a criminal who is motivated enough will eventually find a way to get a gun no matter what the laws are, and this is actually proven. Just like drugs, when someone wants it enough and spends enough time at it, they eventually get it. Therefore people are not in favor of new laws to restrict those who don't have all the time in the world. A person who is not a criminal who can spend all day every day looking for a black market gun will not be able to defend themselves.
|
Joe Phoenix
|
Posted - 2011.01.09 03:13:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Originally by: Joe Phoenix I'm British hense i must take part in "tea parties", oh dear.
And you're illiterate too.
I didn't say you were a member of the tea party, I said even the tea party members are better than you.
You smell like cabbage! oh wait, we're not playing random insults?
tell me merin, obviously you are not very smart and have some social problems, but let me ask you, what does VSO stand for?
|
Jada Maroo
|
Posted - 2011.01.09 03:14:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
2) You may notice a tiny little detail here: Obama isn't hinting at violent revolution, last time I checked.
No, he's just close friends with, and mentored by, someone who actually tried to do it.
|
|
Yiffi
|
Posted - 2011.01.09 03:14:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Jhagiti Tyran Rubbish, its no coincidence than in England the type of gun most often used in crime is the gun that is the easiest to obtain legally.
So then why are handguns which are banned in the UK, used in more criminal offences then shotguns with the latter being the more easier to legally obtain?
http://www.gun-control-network.org/GF05.htm
|
Selinate
Amarr Wardens of the Void
|
Posted - 2011.01.09 03:15:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer By the way, a brief note on "shooting politicians".
I have worked in the circles of firearms training for close to 15 years now and worked alongside the sort of people who not only are capable of shooting a lot of people with guns, at any range, but could, when they get their friends together, change over a whole government.
Now in cases like this, there is is usual crowd trying to state that people who are skilled in the use of arms are "out to get the establishment" because of some threat or perception of it. Usually those who actually try that tend to be nut jobs and tend to be crap shooters too. If someone with real skill ever did a mass shooting, or something like the DC Sniper, there would be a lot of dead bodies.
So I once asked one of these modern Supermen "Why don't you or some guys like you ever <insert government altering violent action here>?" and I got my ass chewed on. Why?
Because every "operator" who knows the ways of the gun will ask you "what difference does it make?".
You see, killing politicians and judges does not make a difference. All it really does is make a martyr out of a crook, and then some years later there will be a new Federal building named after the victim in a town or city that does not currently have a federal building, and that new building will be home to a new swarm of agents "sent to harrass the people" as Jefferson would put it.
So I, as have others, who, in learning how to be very effective with weapons, have also learned that the weapons have limits. This is especially the case in a democracy. Kill the corrupt, or the right-winger, or the left-winger, or the good guy, and the people will simply elect another one after canonizing the dead one. Sure there are cases where it did matter in smaller countries, but there were already factions (CIA, Communists, etc) funding different groups with their own leaders getting ready to take over.
So I can pretty much vouch for myself and other gunmen, trainers, operators, and soldiers, when I say that nobody I know thinks there is anything positive to come out of killing people, especially politicians and judges.
This is why such killings are rare in the United States, and usually carried out by nuts and in a cloud of suspicious circumstances that the media will not be very open about.
I would argue that a gun can have rippling effects that can be rather effective... Depends on the level of corruption and so forth that may be in place.
For example, if an extremist politician in the white house were to be pushing forth some incredibly asinine one-sided bill that could enforce something heinous or just completely unhelpful, and no one else agrees, if this politician succeeds in blackmailing colleagues to agree with said bill, shooting the original politician could be effective.
What I'm saying is for every scenario, there are many possible outcomes other than the one you mentioned.
In this specific instance, though, it's nothing but a case of a tragically delusional person committing a horrible act...
|
Ademaro Imre
Caldari
|
Posted - 2011.01.09 03:15:00 -
[123]
Edited by: Ademaro Imre on 09/01/2011 03:20:19
Originally by: Merin Ryskin Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 09/01/2011 03:06:41
Originally by: Ademaro Imre Tea party, Sarah Palin, tea party.........
Has it ever occured to you ONCE, that there may be a link between Loughner's atheism, his likes of the Communist Manifesto, and Mein Kampf, and Giffords being a Jew?
Did Loughner have links and "likes" about Sarah Palin as much as he did for The Communist Manifesto and Mein Kampf?
So under your theory, it's just pure coincidence that the person he picked to kill just happened to be a politician the tea party has used violent language/images about?
Exactly. Unless you can show that Loughner actually saw this mailing, and was even effected by it. If you were to follow any political election, every politician is a "target" or some other organization looking to raise money.
You are being silly to even coming up with such a connection, without having addressed how his professed like of Mein Kampf and Giffords being a Jew, has no connection. I am not saying it does, but before you jump off the cliff into absurdity, at least try to jump over a rock.
You are saying Sarah Palin's fundraising letter to select supporters carried more weight than Loughner's professed like of:
Originally by: Hit ler in Mein Kampf the personification of the devil as the symbol of all evil assumes the living shape of the Jew.
has no weight, but Sarah Palin's "target Gabrielle Giffords in a republican leaning state for the 2009 election" carries all the weight for Loughner to kill with, even though no one can even show that Giffords was on Palin's mailing list?
|
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
|
Posted - 2011.01.09 03:17:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Joe Phoenix tell me merin, obviously you are not very smart and have some social problems, but let me ask you, what does VSO stand for?
Could it be http://www.vso.org.uk/?
PS: nice job trying to change the subject, but you're still a sociopath. -----------
|
Joe Phoenix
|
Posted - 2011.01.09 03:18:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Jada Maroo
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
2) You may notice a tiny little detail here: Obama isn't hinting at violent revolution, last time I checked.
No, he's just close friends with, and mentored by, someone who actually tried to do it.
Jada don't make his head explode, it would cause a horrible mess.
|
Jada Maroo
|
Posted - 2011.01.09 03:22:00 -
[126]
I actually doubt any Democrat politicians of any significance, or any legitimate left leaning pundits, are going to seriously try to link any of this to Sarah Palin and this whole discussion is a moot point. Not only does it sound ridiculous laying the blame of an certifiable schitzophrenic's actions at Sarah Palin's snow boots, but it comes off as disgustingly sleazy political opportunism and that's the sort of thing that backfires bigtime.
So I guess, in a way, I hope they're actually dumb enough to try.
|
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
|
Posted - 2011.01.09 03:23:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Ademaro Imre You are being silly to even coming up with such a connection, without having addressed how his professed like of Mein Kampf and Giffords being a Jew, has no connection.
The point is that one of them leads to a plausible motive, while the other doesn't.
Listening to tea party propaganda has a very clear motive, and it's not hard to see how how someone who already has serious problems could identify with the tea party platform, see that kind of propaganda, and decide "it's time to deal with this problem myself".
Hating Jews just doesn't produce a motive that makes any sense. If that was really what his motivation was, why pick this specific target? Why kill a random politician who happens to be a Jew instead of someone who is an active and important figure in Jewish religion/culture/etc? Why not go shooting at a pro-Israel rally? Etc. -----------
|
Selinate
Amarr Wardens of the Void
|
Posted - 2011.01.09 03:24:00 -
[128]
Edited by: Selinate on 09/01/2011 03:24:52
Originally by: Jada Maroo I actually doubt any Democrat politicians of any significance, or any legitimate left leaning pundits, are going to seriously try to link any of this to Sarah Palin and this whole discussion is a moot point. Not only does it sound ridiculous laying the blame of an certifiable schitzophrenic's actions at Sarah Palin's snow boots, but it comes off as disgustingly sleazy political opportunism and that's the sort of thing that backfires bigtime.
So I guess, in a way, I hope they're actually dumb enough to try.
Politicians. Campaign managers. Translated: Mudslingers. Someone will try to do it, somewhere. Also, it might not be a Democrat, it might be a Republican, since Republicans and Tea Party candidates often butt heads in elections, since that map is more Tea Party related than Republican...
|
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar The Python Cartel. The Defenders of Pen Island
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Posted - 2011.01.09 03:26:00 -
[129]
The shooter was stupid, everyone knows a rifle is way better than a sidearm. Headshot with a rifle and there's pretty much no such thing as critical condition
Originally by: Jada Maroo Many legitimate news stories over the past few years would not have been brought to the forefront if not for Fox News.
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Joe Phoenix
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Posted - 2011.01.09 03:27:00 -
[130]
A sociopathic humanitarian? Merin i don't run anti-malaria treatement programs in the gambia because i like the ****ing weather out there! People like you make me loss faith in humanity...
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Ademaro Imre
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.01.09 03:27:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Hating Jews just doesn't produce a motive that makes any sense. If that was really what his motivation was, why pick this specific target? Why kill a random politician who happens to be a Jew instead of someone who is an active and important figure in Jewish religion/culture/etc? Why not go shooting at a pro-Israel rally? Etc.
Perhaps, that particular jew was his representative in a government be believed practiced mind control and grammar control. He's crazy. But you need to first eliminate the obvious, and demonstrate how Mein Kampf, and Giffords being a jew has no relation before you get into Sarah Palin. Do crazy people need a motive? Mein Kampf was enough for Hit ler, so - it could be enough for other crazy people.
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.09 03:33:00 -
[132]
Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 09/01/2011 03:34:33
Originally by: Joe Phoenix A sociopathic humanitarian? Merin i don't run anti-malaria treatement programs in the gambia because i like the ****ing weather out there! People like you make me loss faith in humanity...
Yeah, and all the racists who say "I'm not a racist, one of my friends is black" are not racists...
Like it or not, publicly announcing that you don't think murdering politicians is something to care about makes you a sociopath. The more you brag about your volunteering like this, the more you make it look like the only reason you volunteer is for the same reason as other sociopaths: to make themselves look good.
Originally by: Ademaro Imre Perhaps, that particular jew was his representative in a government be believed practiced mind control and grammar control. He's crazy. But you need to first eliminate the obvious, and demonstrate how Mein Kampf, and Giffords being a jew has no relation before you get into Sarah Palin. Do crazy people need a motive? Mein Kampf was enough for Hit ler, so - it could be enough for other crazy people.
Why is your personal theory the one that needs to be explained first? Why not the other way around?
Now, if he'd gone to a pro-Israel rally and started shooting, I (and everyone else) would be putting the blame elsewhere, but he didn't. -----------
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Jada Maroo
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Posted - 2011.01.09 03:41:00 -
[133]
This might turn out to be a more interesting case than we know. They're saying there's a suspected bomb found at her office. I wonder if this might have been the same nutcase sending exploding packages in the mail complaining about electronic traffic signs?
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stoicfaux
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.01.09 03:52:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Jada Maroo I actually doubt any Democrat politicians of any significance, or any legitimate left leaning pundits, are going to seriously try to link any of this to Sarah Palin and this whole discussion is a moot point. Not only does it sound ridiculous laying the blame of an certifiable schitzophrenic's actions at Sarah Palin's snow boots, but it comes off as disgustingly sleazy political opportunism and that's the sort of thing that backfires bigtime.
So I guess, in a way, I hope they're actually dumb enough to try.
Call me cynical, but even if the Democrats don't make an issue out it, do you think the conservative talk show hosts will let that stop them? Meaning, Rush/Glenn/etc., will go ahead and accuse the Democrats of using the shooting to their advantage even if the Democrats don't bring it up.
Personally, IMHO, the Republican/Conservative/whatever machine has stopped even trying to campaign or debate on the issues. They just seem make stuff up and their supporters believe it blindly and repeat it as gospel truth. It's just freaking scary to watch that many people turn off the rational side of their brains.
(The Democrats, by comparison, are just idiots who think other people's problems can be solved with your money.)
----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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Jada Maroo
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Posted - 2011.01.09 04:08:00 -
[135]
Originally by: stoicfaux
Call me cynical, but even if the Democrats don't make an issue out it, do you think the conservative talk show hosts will let that stop them? Meaning, Rush/Glenn/etc., will go ahead and accuse the Democrats of using the shooting to their advantage even if the Democrats don't bring it up.
Typically they would play some video or audio clip of a Democrat or a left leaning news source like MSNBC making the accusation before responding. So really, it's up to the Democrats to bring it on themselves.
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Harrigan VonStudly
Original Sin.
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Posted - 2011.01.09 04:09:00 -
[136]
People who are not allowed to own guns are subjects. Typical knee jerk reactions in this thread. OMFG ban guns blah blah blah. Research the statistics of gun ownership before you start talking about taking away my rights. Yes, it is a right in the U.S. Isn't it funny how people want to remove rights yet privileges such as driving licenses are thought of as a right by the very people who don't understand rights.
Frankly, I'm surprised this hasn't happened sooner. This guy wasn't left or right. Regardless of what they find out about him. He was a psycho nut job. The sad part is that this incident will be used by the left to once again come after guns. Guns aren't allowed on school campus. Gee, wonder why we have so many school shootings? Because psychos know there isn't anyone to stop them before they kill um-teen ****ing people. That's why.
While legal gun carrying people may not prevent someone from doing a mass shooting it could certainly keep it to a minimum. In a lot of these shooting had law abiding CCW permit holders been allowed to actually exercise their right to carry a firearm most of the shooting very well may have ended with a lot less deaths/injuries or not happened at all. Read the stats knee jerkers. Honest stats. Not made up **** from special interests with an agenda.
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Jada Maroo
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Posted - 2011.01.09 04:48:00 -
[137]
Edited by: Jada Maroo on 09/01/2011 04:50:03 Bo Dietl made a really good point tonight on Geraldo At Large for anyone who will sleazily try to insist that this shooting was politically motivated instead of just a flat-out nutjob... how are they going to explain the 9 year old victim?
Let me guess, Sarah Palin once spanked one of her kids when they were nine which of course is an obvious "hint" that she supports murdering children?
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente Sigma Special Tactics Group Fleet Coordination Coalition
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Posted - 2011.01.09 05:10:00 -
[138]
Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer on 09/01/2011 05:15:07
Originally by: stoicfaux
Originally by: Jada Maroo I actually doubt any Democrat politicians of any significance, or any legitimate left leaning pundits, are going to seriously try to link any of this to Sarah Palin and this whole discussion is a moot point. Not only does it sound ridiculous laying the blame of an certifiable schitzophrenic's actions at Sarah Palin's snow boots, but it comes off as disgustingly sleazy political opportunism and that's the sort of thing that backfires bigtime.
So I guess, in a way, I hope they're actually dumb enough to try.
Call me cynical, but even if the Democrats don't make an issue out it, do you think the conservative talk show hosts will let that stop them? Meaning, Rush/Glenn/etc., will go ahead and accuse the Democrats of using the shooting to their advantage even if the Democrats don't bring it up.
Personally, IMHO, the Republican/Conservative/whatever machine has stopped even trying to campaign or debate on the issues. They just seem make stuff up and their supporters believe it blindly and repeat it as gospel truth. It's just freaking scary to watch that many people turn off the rational side of their brains.
(The Democrats, by comparison, are just idiots who think other people's problems can be solved with your money.)
It's all theater.
BTW the biggest threat of the Tea Party is against the establishment elements of the GOP (better known as the Neocons).
I refer to the real Tea Party that has been around for at least 10 years. The media has attempted to install Sarah Palin (protege of Bill Kristol - top Neocon) as the leader of this "movement" only after it started to give the establishment GOP a lot of trouble on the state convention level.
It is even speculated that around 40 percent of the Tea Party are democrats and independent voters.
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Jhagiti Tyran
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Posted - 2011.01.09 06:27:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Yiffi
Originally by: Jhagiti Tyran Rubbish, its no coincidence than in England the type of gun most often used in crime is the gun that is the easiest to obtain legally.
So then why are handguns which are banned in the UK, used in more criminal offences then shotguns with the latter being the more easier to legally obtain?
http://www.gun-control-network.org/GF05.htm
Those statistics count converted replica and blank firing firearms as "handguns" and the type most likely to be used in crime, the government introduced strict new laws about the sale of replicas etc that could be converted.
Hence my comment about the easiest to legally obtain being the most common gun being used in crime.
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2011.01.09 09:05:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer
It's an either or situation. Sometimes the gun is stolen, sometimes it was obtained through legal channels. What is generally accepted in the US is that a criminal who is motivated enough will eventually find a way to get a gun no matter what the laws are, and this is actually proven. Just like drugs, when someone wants it enough and spends enough time at it, they eventually get it. Therefore people are not in favor of new laws to restrict those who don't have all the time in the world. A person who is not a criminal who can spend all day every day looking for a black market gun will not be able to defend themselves.
Difference between the uk and the US is the US has so many guns everywhere it is a hell of a lot easyer to get your hands on one. It also seems stupidly easy for nutjobs to get their hands on them for some reason. We are only 8 days into 2011 and already you have had a mass shooting involving a high ranking polition and its only a matter of time before school shooting happens this year. I shudder to think what it is going to take before Americans do something about the gun problems.
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Kalle Demos
Amarr Hysteria Nexus
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Posted - 2011.01.09 09:28:00 -
[141]
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer
It's an either or situation. Sometimes the gun is stolen, sometimes it was obtained through legal channels. What is generally accepted in the US is that a criminal who is motivated enough will eventually find a way to get a gun no matter what the laws are, and this is actually proven. Just like drugs, when someone wants it enough and spends enough time at it, they eventually get it. Therefore people are not in favor of new laws to restrict those who don't have all the time in the world. A person who is not a criminal who can spend all day every day looking for a black market gun will not be able to defend themselves.
Difference between the uk and the US is the US has so many guns everywhere it is a hell of a lot easyer to get your hands on one. It also seems stupidly easy for nutjobs to get their hands on them for some reason. We are only 8 days into 2011 and already you have had a mass shooting involving a high ranking polition and its only a matter of time before school shooting happens this year. I shudder to think what it is going to take before Americans do something about the gun problems.
This
Not only that, if drugs were legal it would be easier to get hold of it, which makes you think about how stupid the rules are.
Weed is illegal but guns arent.
Originally by: Kool StoryBro <---
Originally by: CCP Spitfire Spam post removed.
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente Sigma Special Tactics Group Fleet Coordination Coalition
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Posted - 2011.01.09 09:45:00 -
[142]
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer
It's an either or situation. Sometimes the gun is stolen, sometimes it was obtained through legal channels. What is generally accepted in the US is that a criminal who is motivated enough will eventually find a way to get a gun no matter what the laws are, and this is actually proven. Just like drugs, when someone wants it enough and spends enough time at it, they eventually get it. Therefore people are not in favor of new laws to restrict those who don't have all the time in the world. A person who is not a criminal who can spend all day every day looking for a black market gun will not be able to defend themselves.
Difference between the uk and the US is the US has so many guns everywhere it is a hell of a lot easyer to get your hands on one. It also seems stupidly easy for nutjobs to get their hands on them for some reason. We are only 8 days into 2011 and already you have had a mass shooting involving a high ranking polition and its only a matter of time before school shooting happens this year. I shudder to think what it is going to take before Americans do something about the gun problems.
It's because of your island and the statistics coming from it that we refuse to do anything about any "gun problem". You have an ISLAND and did crime drop? Last I heard, you people were talking about "knife control".
What has changed from now and 100 years ago? Do we churn out more nut jobs or less? Do you see all that "progressivism" being rolled back when these incidents occur? Guns were around long before social engineers, psychology, and television came around.
And if someone can argue that "the Second Amendment was written when the main weapon of the day was only a musket before self-loading repeating weapons!" then I would have say say that the First Amendment (free speech) was written when there was only the printing press before TV, Radio, Fax, and Internet. Should that be curtailed too?
We have watched England from afar where people cannot protect themselves in their own homes. And I got news for you, American politicians love crime. I have seen city-level elections based on who manages to install more street lamps to "deter crime" as they put it except that in reality it allows criminals to free up a hand that they would have instead had to use to hold a flashlight. The whole false left-right paradigm in this country is based on one party having the appearance of being "soft on crime" and the other having the appearance of being "tough on crime".
Now take a moment to think about that. "soft on crime" versus "tough on crime" in a country that has more people incarcerated for victimless crimes than any other nation except perhaps China or North Korea and AT THE SAME TIME has more hardened criminals around too. Do you really think it's sensible to want to be disarmed in a climate like this with a two party duopoly playing on fears that really does nothing about real crime while becoming more tyrannical with each election cycle?
Politicians would love an England/Australia style ban because it would give them more power over security. We have already seen them take over a lot of power there. There are large cities in the USA like New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, Washington DC, and Boston that have very strict control on guns and they have worse violent crime statistics than all of the other large cities. I lived in Florida for a while where people moving from New York or New Jersey would, even before they were moved in, be the victims of a home invasion because criminals had a better chance of making a correct assumption that their victims, coming from a gun control zone, would be unarmed.
Finally, keep in mind that I take time to explain something to you, but real liberty is not asking for acceptance or permission, even in the face of ignorance. We will not be giving up our guns. Period. And if that should come to war, we are waiting for it.
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CCP StevieSG
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Posted - 2011.01.09 10:27:00 -
[143]
Locking this thread as per the forum rules. Please note that political discussion is not permitted on these forums.
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