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[Proposal] Capacitor Protection Module,

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Tyr Aeron Therapy. Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2011.01.09 16:23:00 - [1] Edited by: Tyr Aeron on 09/01/2011 16:37:43 Edited by: Tyr Aeron on 09/01/2011 16:36:27 I love NOS/Neuts. However, unlike all other unconventional weapons in EVE, there is no counter. I propose a new low slot module that would reduce the effectiveness of NOS/Neuts and would maintain a small amount of cap for the ship no matter how many NOS/Neuts are being used on it. I would also like to see the effectiveness of the module tied to the Energy Management skill. Here's just some rough numbers: META LVL / NOS/Neut effect / Cap Protection 1 / -50% / 5% 2 / -55% / 7.5% 3 / -60% / 10% 4 / -65% / 12.5% 5 (T2) / -70% / 15% Again, just rough numbers and would still like to see Energy Management skill get worked in there somewhere and I think fitting requiremets should be similar to Damage Control so there aren't a bunch of different sizes required and it can easily be fit on frigates and cruisers. Only one module could be fit, like Damage Control. Making it a low-slot module means players would have to sacrifice a tank or damage mod to protect the precious capacitor. Ideas, comments, suggestions welcome. Trolls, take a ****.
Goose99	Posted - 2011.01.09 16:48:00 - [2] Support. One of the reasons that neut is the most used form of ew is that, unlike other types, it has no opposing mod specifically countering it. Sensor dampner has sensor booster, ECM has ECCM, etc. Stats will need to be balanced, but such a mod should exist.
EdwardNardella Capital Construction Research	Posted - 2011.01.09 16:49:00 - [3] I could /support this as long as it does not work on capital ships. CCRES is recruiting pilots who want to live in WSpace/Wormholes. Fill out an application here!
Tyr Aeron Therapy. Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2011.01.09 16:56:00 - [4] No, absolutely no cap protection on capital ships. Have you ever tried to kill the cap on a Thanatos? It already takes FOREVER!!! This mod would have to be restricted to sub-capitals only.
TimMc Brutal Deliverance Extreme Prejudice.	Posted - 2011.01.09 16:57:00 - [5] Its called cap boosters.
Cyral Xavious	Posted - 2011.01.09 17:31:00 - [6] Edited by: Cyral Xavious on 09/01/2011 17:31:20 Originally by: EdwardNardella I could /support this as long as it does not work on capital ships. take your recruiting attempt to the RECRUITING thread! Don't post it here
Maxsim Goratiev Imperial Tau Syndicate	Posted - 2011.01.09 17:53:00 - [7] Edited by: Maxsim Goratiev on 09/01/2011 17:53:07 i can get behind this. DOn't see a problem with it.
T' Elk Unlawful Combatants	Posted - 2011.01.09 18:16:00 - [8] Could be useful. -------------------------------------------------- A verbis ad verbera - From words to blows
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2011.01.09 19:32:00 - [9] Say hello to the unkillable AB frigates and cruisers, hope you are not too attached to the idea of BS in anything but huge blobs. Let me pose a hard one for you: Why? You fail to give a reason as to why you think it should be possible, what niche is it exactly you want to help out? AB/Dual-prop frigates don't need help as they already have Nos. AB/Dual-prop cruisers don't need help as they already have Nos and injection. Logistics don't need help as they have cap-chains or speed (sorry Oneiros, you are not used so not factored in). BCs and BS .. neither of which have any issues with neuting except when ganked/surprised but then a small puddle of electrons wont help much anyway.
Anubis Xian Word Bearers of Chaos	Posted - 2011.01.09 19:46:00 - [10] I have a better idea, bring back old school nos. Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal. CINA
Vmir Gallahasen United Mining And Distribution	Posted - 2011.01.10 00:28:00 - [11] Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Say hello to the unkillable AB frigates and cruisers, hope you are not too attached to the idea of BS in anything but huge blobs. Let me pose a hard one for you: Why? You fail to give a reason as to why you think it should be possible, what niche is it exactly you want to help out? First to the frigate/cruiser thing: if AB frigates with nos already counter neuts, how exactly will they suddenly become unkillable when fitting mod to counter neuts? And secondly, I find it saddening that active tanking is so uncommon on a PvP ship that it doesn't even occur to you that such a mod would be a huge buff to it. Let's see you try to fly an active armor tank mwd'ing blaster ship against anything in your size class that has even a single neut
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2011.01.10 01:15:00 - [12] Originally by: Vmir Gallahasen First to the frigate/cruiser thing:... Without need to be in nos range you get higher speed which makes tracking tanking easy as pie. Without nos you free up a lot of fitting room (on a frigate) that can be used for more damage/ewar. Originally by: Vmir Gallahasen And secondly, I find it saddening that active tanking is so uncommon on a PvP ship that it doesn't even occur to you that such a mod would be a huge buff to it... I pretty much exclusively fly active tanked laser boats so am well aware of the feeling. But lets say this module was fitted; You lose a lowslot (-tank/-damage) for 10-15% 'neut secured' cap .. now cycle your MWD once and see what happens. You won't be capped out as such, but MWD goes inactive and guns/tackle become dependent on natural recharge at 0-5% (which is sod all) = no change. You are better off fitting a capacitor relay.
Ephemeron The Dirty Dozen	Posted - 2011.01.10 01:30:00 - [13] Nos used to be the best counter to neuts, till CCP nerfed it into uselessness. Now people sometimes fit neuts, but barely ever nos. Cap injector is the traditional defense against neuts. It works well enough. There was a neat idea once to use smartbombs as defense against neut/nos, so activation of smartbomb would cause damage to anyone neuting you, and maybe have some other protective effect.
Vmir Gallahasen Gallente United Mining And Distribution	Posted - 2011.01.10 02:03:00 - [14] Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Without need to be in nos range you get higher speed which makes tracking tanking easy as pie. No, the farther away you are the easier it is to track you. It takes less tracking to hit an orbiting inty at 15km than the same inty at 5km with the same weapon Originally by: Hirana Yoshida I pretty much exclusively fly active tanked laser boats so am well aware of the feeling. Battleclinic doesn't have anything besides one geddon you lost a long time ago. You have this evidence on another character? What (besides possibly a legion) armor tanking active tanking non-frigate hull with lasers do you fly? Originally by: Hirana Yoshida But lets say this module was fitted; You lose a lowslot (-tank/-damage) for 10-15% 'neut secured' cap .. now cycle your MWD once and see what happens. You won't be capped out as such, but MWD goes inactive and guns/tackle become dependent on natural recharge at 0-5% (which is sod all) = no change. I was more interested in the -% neut effect the OP's suggestion has, rather than protected cap as such. 15% protected cap isn't going to do a lot of good unless you're using capless guns
zus	Posted - 2011.01.10 03:24:00 - [15] Sum Nos/Neut resisters can be added in to the damage control or if ships had inherited resistantÆs to them with variable effects depending ship class and faction
WitchKingOfAgamar	Posted - 2011.01.10 04:56:00 - [16] Isnt this basically what cap boosters do?
Anubis Xian Word Bearers of Chaos	Posted - 2011.01.10 05:15:00 - [17] Originally by: WitchKingO*amar Isnt this basically what cap boosters do? Do shield boosters and armor repairers mitigate incoming damage? Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal. CINA
Goose99	Posted - 2011.01.10 05:17:00 - [18] Originally by: WitchKingO*amar Isnt this basically what cap boosters do? In the same sense that fof missiles and drones "counter" ecms. ECCM is the direct counter module of ECM, rest are workarounds, same concept as cap booster vs neut. The idea is introduce a direct counter module for neut, which decreases its effectiveness, since direct counter-modules exist for all other forms of ew.
Dorian Tormak	Posted - 2011.01.10 18:05:00 - [19] It's a bad idea because I think so.
Joss56 Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2011.01.10 18:42:00 - [20] Supported. /sarcasm [on]: who need this mod? fly matar you idiots! /sarcasm [off] ________________________________________________ "You do realise you live on a globe, right? And that there places outside the USA/UK?"
Sepheir Sepheron Mucro Dei	Posted - 2011.01.10 19:21:00 - [21] I skimmed through and was gonna say "Should be only able to fit one!" but then I re-read and shat my pants at how completely awesome and perfect this idea is. Only thing is I think meta 5 should be 40% not 70%, and I think cap protection should be 10% tops.
EdwardNardella Capital Construction Research	Posted - 2011.01.12 16:19:00 - [22] Originally by: Cyral Xavious Edited by: Cyral Xavious on 09/01/2011 17:31:20 Originally by: EdwardNardella I could /support this as long as it does not work on capital ships. take your recruiting attempt to the RECRUITING thread! Don't post it here What are you talking about? CCRES is recruiting pilots who want to live in WSpace/Wormholes. Fill out an application here!
Corina Jarr	Posted - 2011.01.12 17:14:00 - [23] If you want cap protection from nuets, fit specifically for an insane cap. Use cap recharger, batteries and rigs to make it impossible to cap you out. Or... deal with it, like I do (good method is use a nos to cap him out, and have projectile guns, so you can still shoot).
Tyr Aeron Therapy. Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2011.01.12 17:49:00 - [24] Edited by: Tyr Aeron on 12/01/2011 17:51:22 Originally by: Corina Jarr If you want cap protection from nuets, fit specifically for an insane cap. Use cap recharger, batteries and rigs to make it impossible to cap you out. Or... deal with it, like I do (good method is use a nos to cap him out, and have projectile guns, so you can still shoot). Maybe that would work if I were playing station games or some other high-sec carebear BS, but not in 0.0 or even low-sec for that matter. Let's look at it this way folks.... Gallente have several ships that get a bonus to active tanking. Let's take a Myrmidon for example. Even fit w/ autocannons, once you put on a cap booster (or two) you've still got to power, at minimum, 2 Medium armor reppers that suck even more cap because of the (at least 1) Nanobot Accelerator I rig. Then you've also got your scram, web, AB/MWD, and whatever else you like in your mid slots, an possibly an active hardener or 2. Once you stick ONLY the ammo you'd need for a short roam and fill the rest of your hold w/ cap boosters, you'll still only have enough to get you through 2 or 3 good fights. NOW lets imagine you run into a gang of 4 or 5 frigates, lets say, Jags, Wolves, and a Dramiel....no problem, right. Your scram/web combo whould be enough to let your drones pull them apart....wrong. They each have a small neut fitted. Now, your Cap Boosters can't pump the juice fast enough to keep up w/ the drain because of reload times and before you know it, your Myrm is an insurance claim and the frigs are running for bigger ships to scoop your loot, including the Cap Booster charges still in your hold when you blew up. So, here's the deal. If I'm going to spend a few million on a ship, it damn well better have an auxillary generator, battery back-ups, or SOMETHING to keep me from being capped out. I can buy something to lower my chances of getting jammed, scrammed, tracking disrupted, and sensor damped, and there are drugs to counter target painting effects, but there isn't a damn thing I can do about NOS/Neut. Eve is a big game of chess. For every move, a counter move. NOS/Neut has no counter. Cap Boosters are NOT a counter and neither are Cap Rechargers etc as "fitting for insane cap" is possibly the stupidest thing I've ever heard since there's no way of telling whether or not you're actually going to encounter cap warfare or not and wasting the slots on such a fitting is utterly moronic. Hope I've cleared up things a little and given you an idea of the kinds of scenarios I had in mind when I proposed this. I think it would be a boon to active tanked ships and make even the venerable Hyperion a more atractive ship to fly in PvP.
Anubis Xian Word Bearers of Chaos	Posted - 2011.01.12 19:02:00 - [25] Edited by: Anubis Xian on 12/01/2011 19:01:49 Cap Batteries should be immune to nos/neut, protecting the amount of cap the battery is worth. Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal. CINA
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2011.01.13 09:14:00 - [26] Originally by: Tyr Aeron I love NOS/Neuts. However, unlike all other unconventional weapons in EVE, there is no counter. No, the counter to neuts is Nos.
Vmir Gallahasen Gallente United Mining And Distribution	Posted - 2011.01.13 18:18:00 - [27] Originally by: Gypsio III No, the counter to neuts is Nos. Err ... What? Assuming you meet the specific conditions where a nos will work--and that isn't always easy when you're an active tank and the enemy is buffer tanked--it'll take 2.5 medium nos to counter each single medium energy neut. Not much of a counter. You'd be far better off trying to nuke the enemy's cap first which is why everyone fits a neut. And with almost everyone fitting a neut in a gang, even the most ridiculous cap recharge setups are toast in a matter of seconds. So active tanking is off the table too, and here we are
Ephemeron Lubricous Rebel Alliance of New Eden	Posted - 2011.01.13 18:51:00 - [28] Originally by: Anubis Xian Edited by: Anubis Xian on 12/01/2011 19:01:49 Cap Batteries should be immune to nos/neut, protecting the amount of cap the battery is worth. Actually that's most reasonable idea here. I'm surprised Anubis thought of it
Ranka Mei	Posted - 2011.01.13 19:10:00 - [29] tl;dr version only: supported. --
Takashi X2	Posted - 2011.01.13 20:05:00 - [30] Originally by: Tyr Aeron Edited by: Tyr Aeron on 09/01/2011 16:37:43 Edited by: Tyr Aeron on 09/01/2011 16:36:27 I love NOS/Neuts. However, unlike all other unconventional weapons in EVE, there is no counter. I propose a new low slot module that would reduce the effectiveness of NOS/Neuts and would maintain a small amount of cap for the ship no matter how many NOS/Neuts are being used on it. I would also like to see the effectiveness of the module tied to the Energy Management skill. Here's just some rough numbers: META LVL / NOS/Neut effect / Cap Protection 1 / -50% / 5% 2 / -55% / 7.5% 3 / -60% / 10% 4 / -65% / 12.5% 5 (T2) / -70% / 15% Again, just rough numbers and would still like to see Energy Management skill get worked in there somewhere and I think fitting requiremets should be similar to Damage Control so there aren't a bunch of different sizes required and it can easily be fit on frigates and cruisers. Only one module could be fit, like Damage Control. Making it a low-slot module means players would have to sacrifice a tank or damage mod to protect the precious capacitor. Ideas, comments, suggestions welcome. Trolls, take a ****. Umm there is a direct counter to these.. Cap Boosters... Did you forget about them?

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