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Semi Organic / Crystalline Armor Modules for Passive Armor Regen

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Kentren Blade of the Wolf Klaw 0	Posted - 2012.08.17 18:52:00 - [1] - Quote So I was consider the possibility of a module designed to give armor tanks a passive regen like shield tanks. And to be honest to the naysayer I say it is both possible and easily pulled from the eve universe and fairly common in a ton of other unrelated scifi. The simplest option is a module that offers a semi organic design based off of rouge drones. Give it the ability to recover armor point at the cost of some extra cap cost (simply bu plugging it in not activating it kinda like the mwd's do but nothing so drastic). Obviously making it weak to certain types of damage is both necessary and easily explained due to organic systems being inherently weak to certain things like radiation (IE explosive dmg). It wouldn't even need to be organic. Crystals are grown and as such if it were designed properly it could conceivably be that as the armor is broken it uses the cap is has claimed at being plugged in to stimulate crystalline growth. However using a crystalline method would generally make it stronger then the organic version as the crystalline lattice could be enticed to grow stronger resistances as well as a regen capacity. I fully entertain legit responses intended to discuss the potential's and even possible drawback or things that might hinder this. I do not intend to tolerate trolls. Also fully acknowledge that the idea would need fleshing out by people with greater knowledge then I have. - I did multiple searches on this forum for related topics prior to posting anything.
A Soporific Old Man Johnson's Bakery Delivery Service 37	Posted - 2012.08.17 18:58:00 - [2] - Quote That would remove the specialization. Armor tanks have higher effective hit points and the ability to use utility modules with the drawback of being slow. Shield tanks have passive regeneration and the ability to use damage modules with the drawback of taking more damage from oversized opponents. This is how the two distinct techniques specialize and play differently. To add passive regeneration for armor tanks (even as an optional add-on) would upset this balance signficantly and remove one of the key differences that make the techniques different. There NEEDS to be a distinction, and that line must remain sharp. I would rather see the addition of something else entirely than something the muddies the water between various tanking methodologies.
Kentren Blade of the Wolf Klaw 0	Posted - 2012.08.17 19:01:00 - [3] - Quote So your argument is that it brings it closer in nature to shield tanking and a such since it might possibly actually balance the two types you will have nothing to do with it?
Fleet Warpsujarento Caldari's Pride - Factional Warfare Cadet School 152	Posted - 2012.08.17 19:20:00 - [4] - Quote Sounds workable. Maybe not as as a way of actually tanking incoming DPS as with a passive shield Drake, but more as a way of not needing to dock and rep after every fight while flying an armor ship. This would be especially useful in FW or Null, where dockable stations can be many jumps away.
FloppieTheBanjoClown The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective 2242	Posted - 2012.08.17 19:21:00 - [5] - Quote Kentren wrote: So your argument is that it brings it closer in nature to shield tanking and a such since it might possibly actually balance the two types you will have nothing to do with it? I'd say the argument is it would remove some of the uniqueness from the two tanking philosophies. Armor = slow, tough, more utility mids, and needs active or external reps Shield = large sig radius, agile, more upgrade lows, more vulnerable to larger weapons The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711
Kentren Blade of the Wolf Klaw 1	Posted - 2012.08.17 19:22:00 - [6] - Quote FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote: Kentren wrote: So your argument is that it brings it closer in nature to shield tanking and a such since it might possibly actually balance the two types you will have nothing to do with it? I'd say the argument is it would remove some of the uniqueness from the two tanking philosophies. Armor = slow, tough, more utility mids, and needs active or external reps Shield = large sig radius, agile, more upgrade lows, more vulnerable to larger weapons See people assume you would loose all those things that made armor what it is why would you? No one said make a armor drake out of it?
FloppieTheBanjoClown The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective 2242	Posted - 2012.08.17 19:24:00 - [7] - Quote Now that I think about it, just shove a small armor repairer in one of your low slots. In between fights, you can slowly "regen" your armor, as the OP requests. The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711
Loius Woo PATRIOT KNIGHTS 159	Posted - 2012.08.17 19:25:00 - [8] - Quote I like this idea. In a more specific way, I think it should lower your overall armor HP amount by some percentage, simultaneously lowering the overall mass amount due to armor by a slightly larger percentage, so that if you go for a passive armor tank, your are able to be faster, but are more susceptible to alpha. Also, I like the reduction to capacitor capacity as a drawback. I can see this being used to great effect in a great many situations. Also, the explosive resist is already the lowest on armor so I don't see a need to alter that. This idea should also be matched up with rigs that increase your armor regeneration rate at the expense of signature radius (same drawback as the shield regen) and there should be a mid slot that reduces the armor regen (similar to the low slot shield regen module). Basically, this would allow an armor tanked ship to sacrifice some of their total EHP and their total Capacitor to have a passive regen tank and a more maneuverable ship.
FloppieTheBanjoClown The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective 2242	Posted - 2012.08.17 19:25:00 - [9] - Quote Kentren wrote: See people assume you would loose all those things that made armor what it is why would you? No one said make a armor drake out of it? The point is, passive regen is a trait of shields. Trying to have one tank style mimic the other dilutes them both. Let them be unique. The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711
Kentren Blade of the Wolf Klaw 2	Posted - 2012.08.17 19:29:00 - [10] - Quote I have to say if you always stick to traditional things you gonna miss out. This alteration is not to usurp the unique nature of shield tanking its intend to offer a neat optional ability to the armor tanking.
Juuce Box Swift Wing Red Villore Accords 0	Posted - 2012.08.17 19:31:00 - [11] - Quote FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote: Now that I think about it, just shove a small armor repairer in one of your low slots. In between fights, you can slowly "regen" your armor, as the OP requests. Sooo, what your saying is you will trade a low slot to fit a small armor repper...Do you play eve just curious
Kentren Blade of the Wolf Klaw 2	Posted - 2012.08.17 19:32:00 - [12] - Quote FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote: Kentren wrote: See people assume you would loose all those things that made armor what it is why would you? No one said make a armor drake out of it? The point is, passive regen is a trait of shields. Trying to have one tank style mimic the other dilutes them both. Let them be unique. Oh but wait inst the idea of a shield booster mimicking the idea of a armor repper? Or are we overlooking that because its already in the game?
Loius Woo PATRIOT KNIGHTS 159	Posted - 2012.08.17 19:33:00 - [13] - Quote FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote: Kentren wrote: See people assume you would loose all those things that made armor what it is why would you? No one said make a armor drake out of it? The point is, passive regen is a trait of shields. Trying to have one tank style mimic the other dilutes them both. Let them be unique. Armor tanking is active, uses active armor repping, takes cap, has rigs and modules that increase their power. Shield tanking can be active by using active reppers, taking cap, and has rigs and modules to increase their power...shield tanking can ALSO be passive and regenerate over time. Armor can't do that last one. So its not that they are different, its that they are not balanced. See how that is. So either remove active shield tanking (please GOD don't really do that) or add passive armor tanking (yea...do that) Buffer tank is a totally different kind of tanking, and is balanced fine. EDIT: I also happen to think that hull tanking should be more viable than it is...but that is a different topic all together.
Nikk Narrel Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels 492	Posted - 2012.08.17 20:12:00 - [14] - Quote Here is a thought on how to balance this idea. Have it cannibalize the shields regen in order to function. Use rigs or mods that shift the percentage of shield regen to become armor regen instead. At 100% your shields stop passive regenerating entirely, but your armor has the strongest passive regen possible. What is it using this for, the power it draws from shields? All we know is this is not the active armor repper. So why not let it work differently too? As a passive armor regen, It works by temporarily liquefying the armor section and remolding it to be intact. (Missing material is accounted for in the same way an armor repper replaces missing material) Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK.
FloppieTheBanjoClown The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective 2243	Posted - 2012.08.17 20:34:00 - [15] - Quote Juuce Box wrote: FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote: Now that I think about it, just shove a small armor repairer in one of your low slots. In between fights, you can slowly "regen" your armor, as the OP requests. Sooo, what your saying is you will trade a low slot to fit a small armor repper...Do you play eve just curious Read what the OP suggests again and perhaps you'll understand what I was saying. The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711
FloppieTheBanjoClown The Skunkworks The Marmite Collective 2243	Posted - 2012.08.17 20:39:00 - [16] - Quote Nikk Narrel wrote: Here is a thought on how to balance this idea. Have it cannibalize the shields regen in order to function. Use rigs or mods that shift the percentage of shield regen to become armor regen instead. At 100% your shields stop passive regenerating entirely, but your armor has the strongest passive regen possible. Armor repper and capacitor flux coils? All the mods suggested so far exist, just not quite in the specified form. An undersized armor rep has the same effect as the proposed passive armor regen. The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711
Loius Woo PATRIOT KNIGHTS 159	Posted - 2012.08.17 20:41:00 - [17] - Quote FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote: Nikk Narrel wrote: Here is a thought on how to balance this idea. Have it cannibalize the shields regen in order to function. Use rigs or mods that shift the percentage of shield regen to become armor regen instead. At 100% your shields stop passive regenerating entirely, but your armor has the strongest passive regen possible. Armor repper and capacitor flux coils? All the mods suggested so far exist, just not quite in the specified form. An undersized armor rep has the same effect as the proposed passive armor regen. No they don't. Cause a passive armor regen would work even while you had ZERO capacitor the same way passive shield regen does. And there would be a PEAK regen just like shields, so a small armor repper would not do the same thing. I think you don't understand how passive shield regen works....
Griffin Omanid IntersteIIar Moneymakers 12	Posted - 2012.08.17 20:52:00 - [18] - Quote I don-¦t really know what i should think about this idea. The only thing i would like to have is something that regenerate my armor a bit when it is only damaged below 1%, in all the other cases a repair modul should still be fitted. Nikk Narrel wrote: Here is a thought on how to balance this idea. Have it cannibalize the shields regen in order to function. Use rigs or mods that shift the percentage of shield regen to become armor regen instead. At 100% your shields stop passive regenerating entirely, but your armor has the strongest passive regen possible. What is it using this for, the power it draws from shields? All we know is this is not the active armor repper. So why not let it work differently too? As a passive armor regen, It works by temporarily liquefying the armor section and remolding it to be intact. (Missing material is accounted for in the same way an armor repper replaces missing material) I think this would be the best idea, allthough I would make it so that it reduces your shield while repairing your armor. For example every second you loose 3-4 shield HP and gain 1 armor HP, because of your shield regeneration of average 4 HP/s in medium Vessels. Its maybe also be aproved by the OP cause you-¦ll loose (as armor tanker) nearly all of you passive shield tanking but gain regeneration in your with good resistance fitted armor tank. But there is still the fact that I think an armor tanker should depend on active tanking and/or good logistics, because they got the higher EHP. So there should be no way that you can get the same amount of regeneration like a low skill shield tanker.
Hannott Thanos Notorious Legion 99	Posted - 2012.08.17 22:17:00 - [19] - Quote I made a thread about this subject a while back. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=130201
Tor Gungnir Agenda Industries 379	Posted - 2012.08.17 22:26:00 - [20] - Quote Organic? Eeeeeww.... How about armoured plating with a layer of regenerating nano-drones/bots instead? Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.
Corina Jarr Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built 1231	Posted - 2012.08.17 22:37:00 - [21] - Quote I feel this would bring us closer to homogenization. I would rather that not happen. Sorry, just personal opinion.
Kentren Blade of the Wolf Klaw 3	Posted - 2012.08.17 23:34:00 - [22] - Quote Hannott Thanos wrote: I made a thread about this subject a while back. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=130201 I apologize for not seeing yours. However this is definitely an expansion upon you idea. And both are a really interesting possibility.
Kentren Blade of the Wolf Klaw 3	Posted - 2012.08.17 23:35:00 - [23] - Quote Corina Jarr wrote: I feel this would bring us closer to homogenization. I would rather that not happen. Sorry, just personal opinion. I am incredibly sorry to hear you feel this way. And I admit it does bring the two side to being incredibly similar. But I hope you can see the sheer potential of ideas like this.
Paikis Lycosa Syndicate Surely You're Joking 121	Posted - 2012.08.18 01:24:00 - [24] - Quote Counter proposal: Train shield tanking!
tankus2 The Peace Keepers Guardian Knights Citizens 55	Posted - 2012.08.18 01:48:00 - [25] - Quote ok, in seriousness with the OP, I have this to suggest: it would be a low-slot module that has a limit of one per ship (like a damage control). Unlike a damage control, it won't have anything to do with shields and instead focus on both armor and hull. Basically, it would passively grant 7.5% armor hitpoints/ 2% hull hitpoints per second while it is activated. Going off the basis of shield's recharge being based off of a percentage instead of a flat rate, and that percentages make them effective regardless what ship they're fitted on (size wise) are the reasons why I've gone with them. I'd also like to note that these percentages are basically a placeholder until a better one could be generated (perhaps though testing). I was at first going with 5% armor regen but that sounded too small (I also considered having it give a 1% or 0.5% shield regen bonus, but then thought that would make it too much like a damage control, and shields already get lots of help so it can just go away for now), though 10% sounded too large. At any rate, what do ya'll think (and sorry for possible thread hijack, I just love ideas!) Where the science gets done
Paikis Lycosa Syndicate Surely You're Joking 121	Posted - 2012.08.18 02:12:00 - [26] - Quote tankus2 wrote: Basically, it would passively grant 7.5% armor hitpoints/ 2% hull hitpoints per second while it is activated. [snip] At any rate, what do ya'll think (and sorry for possible thread hijack, I just love ideas!) 7.5% per second? You realise that means you can regenerate your entire armor hitpoints in 14 seconds? And you're proposing that this be allowed with a single module in a low slot and passive as well? Did you actually think about this idea? Like, at all? I am 100% against this 'passive regen for armor' idea. It's quite possibly the worst case of a "WAAAAA I want what he has, but don't want to lose anything!" argument I've ever seen. If this goes into game it better have a massive penalty to armor hitpoints when fitted (not just online, fitted). Something like this would still be stupid, but it wouldn't be completely imbalanced either: Regerative Plating Limit one per ship Low slot passive Reduces cap regen by -60% armor hitpoints on all Armor Plates (to reduce a 1600mm plate down to the same hitpoints as a LSE II) Regenerates 10 armor hitpoints and 2 hull hitpoints per second. (low so as not to break frigate PvP)
A Soporific Old Man Johnson's Bakery Delivery Service 37	Posted - 2012.08.18 02:29:00 - [27] - Quote Look, instead of making armor like shield, why not give a DIFFERENT method altogether? I mean, it's very important that we keep these things very different from one another, or we'll wind up with a generic mess instead of ships that FEEL different. I wouldn't mind seeing something armor like that boost speed at the cost of hit points and another that boost agility at the cost of armor resist when off, and does precisely the opposite when on. That would be fundimentally different, useful and give armor flavor. Hell slap the words "optimization" on techinobabble and you got yourself something that works. Creativity is something to be encouraged here.
tankus2 The Peace Keepers Guardian Knights Citizens 55	Posted - 2012.08.18 02:51:00 - [28] - Quote well, thank you Paikis for at least not completely shooting my idea down. so 5% would still be a bad idea (let alone 7.5%), but also think about this: would anyone in their right mind that floats around in a battleship fit something that does all you've proposed and regens only 10 points? certainly not! again, this will need a considerable greater amount of thought yet. now Soporific, I can't see losing hitpoints just to go fast (unless you blow off armor, which could have a cool/horrifying effect in game, if one-shot (more in a bit!)), but I can certainly see an agility boost/ resistance flipper! something that would, when passive, make your ship more agile but then when active removes power from it's stabilizers to help boost resistance mods. Basically, it would give a boost to agility, but then lose that bonus and provides a bonus to armor resistance amps/nano plates/ damage controls/ etc like how a shield boost amp improves shield boosters. since it's improving your current resists rather than tacking on more resists, it bypasses the stacking penalties. it'd have to be a fairly small yet noticeable bonus though, or we're back to 7.5% hp/s helllands. Now, for the other mod, I can see a high-slot module that, once activated, destroys all fitted plates, destroys itself when you dock, but while active provides your ship with a healthy speed boost. This module can't be de-activated once active, and you leave a debris field that damages other ships as they fly through it. The field deals damage based on the victim's velocity (so interceptors will be torn to shreds while battleships will wonder wtf was that scratch?) and disintegrates in the same time that salvage does. Lastly, anyone who actually salvages all of that nonsense gets free metal scraps. there's some fun thoughts ;) Where the science gets done
Kentren Blade of the Wolf Klaw 6	Posted - 2012.08.18 05:40:00 - [29] - Quote Paikis wrote: Counter proposal: Train shield tanking! First of all ALL of my toons fly caldari . . . huh wonder if I can shield tank both passively and actively. This idea was a curiosity regarding the idea of regenerative armor. Not to make it one giant blob of sameness because I assure you regenerating armor will NEVER be regenerating (passively) shields. And I would again like to bring it to the attention of anyone reading that SHIELD AND ARMOR tanks are similar in the basic way of armor repair units and shield boosters. huh Novel that and it is a point that no one likes to make because it basically invalidates the cries of oh no lets not make them the same.
Nicolo da'Vicenza Divine Power. Cascade Imminent 1513	Posted - 2012.08.18 05:47:00 - [30] - Quote alternative: instead of passive regen, organic hulls require biomass supplies to start regrowing their shells, like the ancillary shield booster only instead of cap boosters, they'd be cans filled with slaves

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