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The shirt change, serious question to CCP.

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Kaeda Maxwell Smit Intergalactic	Posted - 2011.01.27 09:49:00 - [1] Quote: "Users can no longer proceed to the Portrait screen without equipping a shirt beforehand." I would very much like to know the 'why' of this decision. Is there some compelling legal argument for CCP to implement this change and if so what is it? Beware I am sceptical of this as many, many MMO's allow for far less covering options clothing wise. Or is it as some people have been suggesting some sort of moral puritanism on the part of CCP? And if so please motivate it, I and maybe some other liberal minded individuals might be quite interested in discussing your motivations in that case I reckon. It would be interesting to hear why a company that has Zero-G sex in their tie-in novels thinks bra's are offensive exactly (it's quite an interesting question why people find sexuality offensive anyway, but that's a whole different discussion)? Furthermore if that is the case why do you ascribe higher value to their opinion then the opinion of the people on the other side of the proverbial fence? Just to make it clear, how much I'd like this answered; I love EVE, I am an active CEO part of an active alliance, recently I have taken to blogging about the game I love ( www.the20minuters.com ), I have awesome fun with the people I play with on voicecomms. And have 4 concurrent running subscriptions. EVE is the best MMO I've ever played and I have played a few. The main reason I love it so much is because it doesn't put me on rails, because it allows me freedom to play as I like, I find it hard to rime your recent decision on the issue at hand with this. There are however few things in life I take more offence too then other people trying to impose their morals on me and thus attempting to limit my freedom. Hence if it is true as some people imply that this is motivated by a desire to cater to a more puritan audience, I will be leaving this game albeit with regret and pain in my heart, but I will not financially support a company that deems it it's place to impose their morals on me. Please don't leave me and your other customers in the dark on this issue, it matters more to some of us then you might think. Awaiting your reply CCP in the sincere hope that you really do have a compelling and objective reason for this change, Kaeda
Ikarus Gaul Gallente Eiffel Initiatives	Posted - 2011.01.27 09:52:00 - [2] Quote: "Users can no longer proceed to the Portrait screen without equipping a shirt beforehand." Considering how revealing some Gallente clothing was before the new character creator, this reversal seems puzzling. I'm a decadent pleasure seeker, damnit! It's just one less article that I need to contend with before getting down to business... á How many humans will CONCORD allow Master Kuvakei and his True Slaves to abduct? How many is too many? Too many have already been lost! 40M citizens on countless planets!
SaS 23 Caldari Ascendancy. Nulli Tertius	Posted - 2011.01.27 09:55:00 - [3] Remember CCP is Icelandic, hell ... they dont even know what a bikini is or remember to ever seen one
Baron Rostock	Posted - 2011.01.27 10:04:00 - [4] Originally by: SaS 23 Remember CCP is Icelandic, hell ... they dont even know what a bikini is or remember to ever seen one Yes but the Blue Lagoon is pretty much shirt free, although they may all be tourists...
malaire	Posted - 2011.01.27 10:12:00 - [5] I like this update. So far all female portraits I've seen, which shows bras, have looked awful in my opinion (including OP). I prefer to get rid of such portraits.
Thuul'Khalat Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2011.01.27 10:16:00 - [6] Blame the Americans. Seriously. It is not CCPs morals that are being imposed, but American "morals" The kind where decapitation ang graphic violence hardly raises an eyebrow, but nudity causes havoc and will scar youngsters for life. CCP wants a Teen ERSB rating on EVE, and as such have no choice but to cater to this madness. ---
W1rlW1nd WirlWind	Posted - 2011.01.27 10:18:00 - [7] this change would only make game sense if it was for amarr characters only due to their puritanical back story in the game. but all my gallente alts strongly protest this change!
Klandi Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2011.01.27 10:18:00 - [8] Just to add my comments and observations... If I was the CEO of a game company and I wanted the gamers to focus on the game, I might think that removing RL morality in the form of religion, sex and all those wonderful emote encouraging banalities that haunt our existence need not a place in my MMO. After all, it is a virtual world created by me and all the people that work for me must take my morality and concepts on board. However - sex sells. Always has and always will. To the OP. Leaving a game that gives you so much obvious pleasure over the inclusion of a "virtual" personal garment is a concept you should revisit. Does it feature that much in your game experience?
Jowen Datloran Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2011.01.27 10:21:00 - [9] Edited by: Jowen Datloran on 27/01/2011 10:21:08 Screw the ERSB. Seriously. Why do I have to comfort to an agency that has absolutely zero juristitical power in my country? I hate them and anybody sucking up to them. -- Mr. Science & Trade Institute - EVE Lorebook - Mysteries of W-space
Alotta Baggage Amarr Imperial Manufactorum Armada Assail	Posted - 2011.01.27 10:24:00 - [10] This doesn't apply to characters already made, does it? I have plans to replace the bhaalgorn as the scary thing that steals Amarr children Originally by: Magnus Andronicus ur character looks like a f***ing clown dude.

Peter XZ Gallente	Posted - 2011.01.27 10:24:00 - [11] Edited by: Peter XZ on 27/01/2011 10:25:55 For goodness sake, STOP being pixel perverts, for the life of me I can't understand why people wanna gawk at imaginary non-existant pixel boobs all day, don't you have a RL, can't you find a wife or something. If not, stop frying your brain on EVE for endless hours and get a life. Time Passes, Eternity Awaits, Jesus Saves, and no you can't take Eve with you.Hi to all my Eve Youtube friends, you kno who you are \o/ traditional500 channel
Anne Arqui Minmatar Diamonds in the Rough Enterprises	Posted - 2011.01.27 10:25:00 - [12] Originally by: Kaeda Maxwell There are however few things in life I take more offence too then other people trying to impose their morals on me and thus attempting to limit my freedom. Hence if it is true as some people imply that this is motivated by a desire to cater to a more puritan audience, I will be leaving this game albeit with regret and pain in my heart, but I will not financially support a company that deems it it's place to impose their morals on me. Yes, it's the same reason I'll leave EVE too when my subscription ends - but for the lack of freedom to remake my character! They won't miss us ..
Im Blue	Posted - 2011.01.27 10:30:00 - [13] so i have to put a shirt on later?
Flybiere Gallente Intergalactic Shrimp Emporium	Posted - 2011.01.27 10:32:00 - [14] Edited by: Flybiere on 27/01/2011 10:32:58 Originally by: Anne Arqui Yes, it's the same reason I'll leave EVE too when my subscription ends - but for the lack of freedom to remake my character! They won't miss us .. I really hope you are trolling. What a childish thing to do over a 45x45 pixel picture. Especially considering if you can hold on for just a few months then you will be able to remake it as often as you like. But I guess you dont read up on that kinda stuff. Even if you couldn't, your acting as if the character creator is the only thing going in EvE. We wont miss you.. I hear Sims 3 lets you make as many avatars as you like, for ever!
Aidan Patrick Zero Point Group	Posted - 2011.01.27 10:34:00 - [15] I must say I actually agree with the OP. I view EVE as an adult game. Because of content? No. Because of how it's played. This game should cater more to an adult audience. Hell, I honestly think sexual flare should be a bit more prevalent in the game itself, like the books. Futuristic societies are often imagined with very open sexuality. That is a good thing. If EVE is steering towards a puritan approach, I may not quit, but I'll be severely disappointed. Not to mention CCP... Those dancers mentioned in the Incarna videos... Are they going to be forced to wear shirts too? Really? Just saying... Puritan approach = BAD. If EVE has an 18+ Rating, that's cool! Who cares if you can't buy it in Walmart? They don't stock the game on their shelves as is anyways. (And if they are telling you they are, they are lying. Have never found a copy of EVE In a walmart ever, and I've looked). On a seperate note.. never could find that commissioned officers edition box. Anyways CCP... 18+. Don't cater to children; please; please please please. This needs to remain an adult game. .... **** or gtfo. Yeah. I said it. - Aidan Patrick

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2011.01.27 10:36:00 - [16] CCP owns your clothes, they can tell you when to dress any time they want Altho just make the game 18+ already and we can have all the nudity we need/want/desire. Or make 0.0 unrated... Secure 3rd party service \| my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar'

Peter XZ Gallente	Posted - 2011.01.27 10:37:00 - [17] Edited by: Peter XZ on 27/01/2011 10:37:57 Originally by: Aidan Patrick I must say I actually agree with the OP. I view EVE as an adult game. Because of content? No. Because of how it's played. This game should cater more to an adult audience. Hell, I honestly think sexual flare should be a bit more prevalent in the game itself, like the books. Futuristic societies are often imagined with very open sexuality. That is a good thing. If EVE is steering towards a puritan approach, I may not quit, but I'll be severely disappointed. Not to mention CCP... Those dancers mentioned in the Incarna videos... Are they going to be forced to wear shirts too? Really? Just saying... Puritan approach = BAD. If EVE has an 18+ Rating, that's cool! Who cares if you can't buy it in Walmart? They don't stock the game on their shelves as is anyways. (And if they are telling you they are, they are lying. Have never found a copy of EVE In a walmart ever, and I've looked). On a seperate note.. never could find that commissioned officers edition box. Anyways CCP... 18+. Don't cater to children; please; please please please. This needs to remain an adult game. .... ** or gtfo. Yeah. I said it. How would characters walking around dressed like slu.ts add to a spaceship game? Time Passes, Eternity Awaits, Jesus Saves, and no you can't take Eve with you.*Hi to all my Eve Youtube friends, you kno who you are \o/* traditional500 channel
Fen Haroun	Posted - 2011.01.27 10:38:00 - [18] If anything this IS catering to an adult audience. After all, this 'hur hur I no haz clothes' is nothing more than immaturity. You can argue all you want about freedom to dress your character how you like and this should be targeted at an adult audience... as an adult I dislike the fact that the local chat has people going "u liek mah bewbs?" at each other, and fully support this minor, insignificant change ;)
Jagga Spikes Minmatar Spikes Chop Shop	Posted - 2011.01.27 10:38:00 - [19] what happened to the sandbox on the way to paradise? is hiding the bra worth breaking the illusion? ________________________________ : Forum Bore 'Em : Foamy The Squirrel - [jedi handwave] "There is no spoon."
Sophia Amelia Stone	Posted - 2011.01.27 10:41:00 - [20] Edited by: Sophia Amelia Stone on 27/01/2011 10:46:57 Originally by: Flybiere Edited by: Flybiere on 27/01/2011 10:32:58 Originally by: Anne Arqui Yes, it's the same reason I'll leave EVE too when my subscription ends - but for the lack of freedom to remake my character! They won't miss us .. I really hope you are trolling. What a childish thing to do over a 45x45 pixel picture. Especially considering if you can hold on for just a few months then you will be able to remake it as often as you like. But I guess you dont read up on that kinda stuff. Even if you couldn't, your acting as if the character creator is the only thing going in EvE. We wont miss you.. I hear Sims 3 lets you make as many avatars as you like, for ever! Reduced freedom is always a serious issue. If the idea is to keep the content so that 12+ can play (don't know if this is the case) then I think there are worrying times ahead for this game as 12 - 15 year olds won't generally play this game unless they make it far easier.

Pytria Le'Danness	Posted - 2011.01.27 10:43:00 - [21] I guess once this gets implemented there will be decent shirts to chose from? Oh, wait, whom am I trying to kid here...
Bhattran	Posted - 2011.01.27 10:46:00 - [22] Originally by: Chribba CCP owns your clothes, they can tell you when to dress any time they want Altho just make the game 18+ already and we can have all the nudity we need/want/desire. Or make 0.0 unrated... This, I wish there were 'adult' games that weren't all about ** or intercourse, can't I have an 'adult' game that allows/has content from a R rated movie, some sex, plenty of violence, drug use, etc but limited/less graphic sex so it doesn't turn into a o? Or at least allow people to not see 'o' in game if that is what people want/desire, I don't care, I'd just want an OPTION to not have to see it. But no, we can't because every 'game' thinks by their definition they need to be 'kid safe' and 'parent approved' cause they can't survive on 18 - so old you should be in a home players, you NEED 5-17 or your game will die. --WIS/Incarna/Ambulation where microtransactions come to play, and uh bars.--**
Peter XZ Gallente	Posted - 2011.01.27 10:47:00 - [23] Originally by: Sophia Amelia Stone Originally by: Flybiere Edited by: Flybiere on 27/01/2011 10:32:58 Originally by: Anne Arqui Yes, it's the same reason I'll leave EVE too when my subscription ends - but for the lack of freedom to remake my character! They won't miss us .. I really hope you are trolling. What a childish thing to do over a 45x45 pixel picture. Especially considering if you can hold on for just a few months then you will be able to remake it as often as you like. But I guess you dont read up on that kinda stuff. Even if you couldn't, your acting as if the character creator is the only thing going in EvE. We wont miss you.. I hear Sims 3 lets you make as many avatars as you like, for ever! Reduced lack of freedom is always a serious issue. If the idea is to keep the content so that 12+ can play (don't know if this is the case) then I think there are worrying times ahead for this game as 12 - 15 year olds won't generally play this game unless they make it far easier. Reduced lack of freedom?? So where do you draw the boundries then??? If we don't have necrophilia, bestiality and every other perversion in Incarna, is that a lack of freedom too?? Seriously , whats the world coming to? Time Passes, Eternity Awaits, Jesus Saves, and no you can't take Eve with you.Hi to all my Eve Youtube friends, you kno who you are \o/ traditional500 channel
W1rlW1nd WirlWind	Posted - 2011.01.27 10:48:00 - [24] Originally by: Peter XZ ... How would characters walking around dressed like slu.ts add to a spaceship game? the same way they add to every other MMO that lets you dress your avatar that way DUH! the same way 80% of every magazine ever sold with a human on the cover is a scantily clad female, even in checkout isles in supermarkets. likewise advertisements, and female characters in every action and sci-fi movie ever made. it's for mass appeal, for men and even for most women according to industry statistics. to make a statement as blindly ignorant as you are trying to make, it is as if you have never seen how females dress in a sci fi movie or are just trying to press a personal agenda. you think a sci fi game should not look the way anything else sci-fi has ever looked?
Quemist	Posted - 2011.01.27 10:49:00 - [25] Women terrify the devs and upon seeing a bra they begin to uncontrollably weep?
Moar Dakka	Posted - 2011.01.27 10:53:00 - [26] Originally by: Thuul'Khalat Blame the Americans. Seriously. It is not CCPs morals that are being imposed, but American "morals" The kind where decapitation ang graphic violence hardly raises an eyebrow, but nudity causes havoc and will scar youngsters for life. CCP wants a Teen ERSB rating on EVE, and as such have no choice but to cater to this madness. If this is true, just have the cluster (not client) filter regions. If you're based in Iran, Quatar, the USA or some other fundamentalist backwater, everyone's portrait is a person in a burqua. Everyone else gets what I like to call the post-enlightenment social values version. Bam, problem solved, everyone's happy.
Peter XZ Gallente	Posted - 2011.01.27 10:54:00 - [27] Originally by: W1rlW1nd Originally by: Peter XZ ... How would characters walking around dressed like slu.ts add to a spaceship game? the same way they add to every other MMO that lets you dress your avatar that way DUH! the same way 80% of every magazine ever sold with a human on the cover is a scantily clad female, even in checkout isles in supermarkets. likewise advertisements, and female characters in every action and sci-fi movie ever made. it's for mass appeal, for men and even for most women according to industry statistics. to make a statement as blindly ignorant as you are trying to make, it is as if you have never seen how females dress in a sci fi movie or are just trying to press a personal agenda. you think a sci fi game should not look the way anything else sci-fi has ever looked? If you think that women are just pieces of meat, thats ur business, though it's not a healthy way of treating another human being, cos Abuse of those humans can easily follow, and boy, have we got TONS of abuse of women in todays society. I bet you wouldn't want your daughter, or mother walking around the streets looking inappropriate with dirty old men salivating after her. Time Passes, Eternity Awaits, Jesus Saves, and no you can't take Eve with you.Hi to all my Eve Youtube friends, you kno who you are \o/ traditional500 channel
Carola Kessler	Posted - 2011.01.27 10:54:00 - [28] lmaoooo.....its simple, there are islamic players in the game, also USA Citizens which both are have limitations in their moralistic views or laws Islamics aren't allowed to be undressed in the open nor they are allowed to express their bodys cuz of their religion and whatnot, USA peoples are simple puritanic antinudistics which allow on the otherside aggression kills and whatnot its everytime the same ****ing thing they calling their lawsuiters on Corporations if they not adapt to their requests or views and get them punished by enormous bills and whatnot also their content blocked, nothing really adult mannered or open minded other peoples can do against else then simply stop to support the Corporation lets stomp in the direction of their desire. Fact is many entities want to drove others in the way of their views / desires and whatnot just to show the world they can, don't let you get to upset about this and just play/ work ahead and show them the Middlefinger in your thougths and avoid to travel ever in those Countrys having this sort of Closedminded view of things simple as that and you are fine, let them alone in their small, selfreduced selfish world and suffer.
Anne Arqui Minmatar Diamonds in the Rough Enterprises	Posted - 2011.01.27 10:58:00 - [29] Edited by: Anne Arqui on 27/01/2011 11:05:05 Originally by: Flybiere Originally by: Anne Arqui Yes, it's the same reason I'll leave EVE too when my subscription ends - but for the lack of freedom to remake my character! They won't miss us .. I really hope you are trolling. What a childish thing to do over a 45x45 pixel picture. Especially considering if you can hold on for just a few months then you will be able to remake it as often as you like. But I guess you dont read up on that kinda stuff. Even if you couldn't, your acting as if the character creator is the only thing going in EvE. We wont miss you.. I hear Sims 3 lets you make as many avatars as you like, for ever! Doh EVE also lets you make as many avatars as you like, for ever! Too bad there's SP too without which you can't do anything. I don't appreciate the cosmetic surgery that was forced upon me and which doesn't allow me to look like I want. It kills the immersion for me. And it may be a picture now, it won't be in 6 months time. There's been many threads and proposals about this ("allow us a bloodline change so we can look like we used to") in general forum, Sisi feedback threads and Assembly Hall. Well apparently CCP doesn't seem to care since they didn't post a single response and only ignore us - so I won't care either, it's a serious sign of disrespect for me. I don't acceopt a "suck this, it's what I want you to do our way now, whether you like it or not, take it or leave it". To such rude behaviour I can only say "oh really? bye then!".
cuchuliann	Posted - 2011.01.27 11:00:00 - [30] And what is up with the mandatory rule to wear pants? (no pun intented) F$*!K! I felt more free doing slave labor for Amarrians.

Ivor Reganold Biggen Minmatar	Posted - 2011.01.27 11:01:00 - [31] Originally by: Peter XZ I bet you wouldn't want your daughter, or mother walking around the streets looking inappropriate with dirty old men salivating after her. What you say about my mother f00l? It's called 'Style'. Get some D&G's and shake your money maker.
Sophia Amelia Stone	Posted - 2011.01.27 11:03:00 - [32] Edited by: Sophia Amelia Stone on 27/01/2011 11:04:08 Originally by: Chribba CCP owns your clothes, they can tell you when to dress any time they want Altho just make the game 18+ already and we can have all the nudity we need/want/desire. Or make 0.0 unrated... AoC 18+ game, sure a woman does not have a bra there and they have nipples too. But they don't have anything down below, probably because although it's 18+ they know that there will be some younger players actually playing it. Second Life I believe has full nudity, but never played it so can't confirm that. And as for women not being able to show a bra, that is totally ridiculous. Guess those making those kind of foolish decisions have never been on a beach.
Lynx Borealis	Posted - 2011.01.27 11:03:00 - [33] Originally by: Thuul'Khalat Blame the Americans. Seriously. It is not CCPs morals that are being imposed, but American "morals" The kind where decapitation ang graphic violence hardly raises an eyebrow, but nudity causes havoc and will scar youngsters for life. CCP wants a Teen ERSB rating on EVE, and as such have no choice but to cater to this madness. Yeah, the whole nation freaks out when there is nipple in TV. But it's ok to show TV series and movies all day long that show million different way to kill a man. USA needs to get laid. Seriously.
Pohbis Neo T.E.C.H.	Posted - 2011.01.27 11:05:00 - [34] You can buy exotic dancers, slaves, firearms and drugs. But bra and top, oh no. That's too much! Give it up already CCP. No matter how much you try and remove these things, EVE will not become popular with women.
Carola Kessler	Posted - 2011.01.27 11:06:00 - [35] Originally by: Sophia Amelia Stone Originally by: Chribba CCP owns your clothes, they can tell you when to dress any time they want Altho just make the game 18+ already and we can have all the nudity we need/want/desire. Or make 0.0 unrated... AoC 18+ game, sure a woman does not have a bra there and they have nipples too. But they don't have anything down below, probably because although it's 18+ they know that there will be some younger player actually playing it. Second Life I believe has full nudity, but never played it so can't confirm that. And as for women not being able to show a bra, that is totally ridiculous. Guess those making those kind of foolish decisions have never been on a beach. SL has full nudity FYI also hardcore **** as well but in Closed SIMs ( that are the lands owned by Linden Labs rented to Users) Those SIMs are adult rated and closed to not Age Veryfied users and can't entered by those.
Sophia Amelia Stone	Posted - 2011.01.27 11:12:00 - [36] Originally by: Pohbis Give it up already CCP. No matter how much you try and remove these things, EVE will not become popular with women. Not being able to take your shirt off will be just as unpopular for women as it is for men.
Kaeda Maxwell Smit Intergalactic	Posted - 2011.01.27 11:15:00 - [37] Edited by: Kaeda Maxwell on 27/01/2011 11:16:34 Originally by: Klandi To the OP. Leaving a game that gives you so much obvious pleasure over the inclusion of a "virtual" personal garment is a concept you should revisit. Does it feature that much in your game experience? How I relate to my character, matters to me very much yes, one of my characters is very conservatively clothed as that's how I imagine her personality to be, Kaeda is a -9.9 (at the time of writing) lowsec inhabitant of very low morale fibre, she'd have no trouble whatsoever to get stuff she wants by using her body to do so, apparently CCP -for an as yet undisclosed reason- doesn't seem to think her clothing is allowed to reflect this personality. Originally by: Sophia Amelia Stone Reduced freedom is always a serious issue. That's pretty much the gist of my annoyance yes. Why are morals being opposed on me (my characters) in a game that shows little hint of any high-morals in so much of its lore? Amarr maybe be puritans lore wise for example they also have no issues keep slaves in line by having them addicted to drugs, essentially no different from what a real world pimp does to drug addicted prostitutes. Yet that is ok, and my character showing a little skin isn't? That leads me to think for now that somebody else's real world morals are being imposed on me and that I have a actual real issues with in real life, I like freedom hence I speak up when people try to take it from me. For now it is all speculation however until we get the 'why' of this change from CCP, hence my OP.
Sealiah Minmatar Coffee Lovers Brewing Club Care Factor	Posted - 2011.01.27 11:23:00 - [38] Edited by: Sealiah on 27/01/2011 11:24:43 I don't understand why would the game have censorship. Give us sexy clothes for the female chars and we won't walk naked. :D Oh and on a side note - slavery? You find that showing a boob WITH a bra on top is bad, but having ACTIVE SLAVERY LEGAL is ok? I don't get you. On the other hand, maybe it's because of some graphical issue, the bras weren't too pretty really :/
Hakkar'al Gallente	Posted - 2011.01.27 11:24:00 - [39] I never ceases to amaze that people find stuff to .... ummm .... voice their objections to. Like a shirt. Or not. I a internet space ship game... Seriously
Jada Maroo	Posted - 2011.01.27 11:24:00 - [40] CCP has converted to Islam. Burkas are next, and MANDATORY BEARDS!

Turix Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD.	Posted - 2011.01.27 11:24:00 - [41] While this is something I would by no means do myself, personally I find it rather tasteless, it is a matter of freedom. Freedom is something Eve stands for, not only from a player perspective but also it is the way CCP advertises the game, after all the Sandbox is supposed to have no limits right? CCP, the average age and maturity (Well, discounting most of these forums) of your players far surpasses that of every other major MMO(RPG) I'm aware of, including (And I can vouch for this) Age of Conan; which is a mature rated game! I agree entirely with some of the replies above, Eve currently is very two-faced in the way it is presented; the Books and other fluff present a very gritty, mature and generally well designed view of the Eve universe (One that specifically appeals to the mature player) whereas in the game you seem to be deliberately avoiding anything that links this fluff in at all. Now I understand that RP and player interactions are supposed to be completely that, player driven, but if you don't provide the players the tools and the freedoms they require; then how can they create this sandbox environment that you market so much? Now I'm going to be a bit geeky/philosophical now and quote something from The Cathedral and Bazaar; "Any tool should be useful in the expected way, but a truly great tool lends itself to uses you never expected. Now while CatB is primarily above open source development (And shame on any software developer who hasn't read it) several other of the points made there would suit CCP very well I feel; however I chose this one in particular because the core features of Eve, the ones listed on the box shall we say, are how Eve is expected to be used. Which means everything else, the bit that CCP dubs "The Sandbox", comes under that unexpected category, aka that is what makes Eve great! What I'm trying to say is don't limit the feature that makes your game as good as it is, even in just small ways because small changes lead to bigger changes and so on; especially when you are aware of your audience. I would personally find it very interesting to hear from CCP in the form of a Dev blog or otherwise about some demographics about Eve players, what is the average age, level of education, etc (I'm sure these might exist somewhere, but I'm guessing if they do they are now out dated). Maybe that kind of research might help the development direction of Eve, or at least quench someones curiosity ? Now I'm very aware that what I've just written is very liberal in nature, and blows the proverbial fish of the water (then guts, cooks and eats it) but I wanted to address the issue as a whole, rather than just the specific issue. __________________________
Jennifer Starling Amarr	Posted - 2011.01.27 11:25:00 - [42] Funny thing is that this rage thread wouldn't exist if CCP would have had the shirt rule for the start.
Sophia Amelia Stone	Posted - 2011.01.27 11:26:00 - [43] Originally by: Hakkar'al Gallente I never ceases to amaze that people find stuff to .... ummm .... voice their objections to. Like a shirt. Or not. I a internet space ship game... Seriously Yes seriously as when you can actually use your bodies the avatars in this game will have greater meaning.
Mashie Saldana Minmatar Veto Corp	Posted - 2011.01.27 11:26:00 - [44] How many of the top 16 in Babes of New Eden show their bras? Yes, one as of this moment. Take that as a hint of what actaully is sexy and what isn't.
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2011.01.27 11:28:00 - [45] That is completely ridiculous. Especially considering the old portraits.
W1rlW1nd WirlWind	Posted - 2011.01.27 11:28:00 - [46] Originally by: Peter XZ ... If you think that women are just pieces of meat, thats ur business, though it's not a healthy way of treating another human being, cos Abuse of those humans can easily follow, and boy, have we got TONS of abuse of women in todays society. I bet you wouldn't want your daughter, or mother walking around the streets looking inappropriate with dirty old men salivating after her. ... this ... is ... a FANTASY MURDER SPACE GAME! i would not want my daughter or mother playing this game because within 5 minutes they would get brutally ganked, have their loot stolen, get insulted in local and start crying and want to go back 2W. if you want to fight against skimpy clothing do it in the fashion or film business [and GOOOOOD LUCK WITH THAT LOL!]. but making a puritanical stand in a game based on people killing each other, this is really not the place for it. and like i have already posted, NORMAL people in RL do not cover up with this much clothing and it looks ridiculous to me. the release version of the clothing was way too much cover up. but then again i don't live on top of a snow-capped volcano freezing my butt off all day so the developers may not be used to the idea of not having to wear snowpants and winter jackets even indoors. oh and btw the female body is beautiful and should be celebrated and revered, and since it enters your mind that semi nude women are only to salivated over like meat and not respected, that is your own problem. considering a lot of players also salivate over exploding helpless victims you would be in good company sir, you are definitely subscribed to the correct game
Sophia Amelia Stone	Posted - 2011.01.27 11:28:00 - [47] Originally by: Jennifer Starling Funny thing is that this rage thread wouldn't exist if CCP would have had the shirt rule for the start. Instead you would have threads like: Can we take our shirts off. I want body hair, please make it possible to remove our shirts.
Hakkar'al Gallente	Posted - 2011.01.27 11:34:00 - [48] Edited by: Hakkar''al Gallente on 27/01/2011 11:36:03 Originally by: Sophia Amelia Stone Originally by: Hakkar'al Gallente I never ceases to amaze that people find stuff to .... ummm .... voice their objections to. Like a shirt. Or not. I a internet space ship game... Seriously Yes seriously as when you can actually use your bodies the avatars in this game will have greater meaning. I fail to be impressed by your reasoning, as "when" is not now. So, CCP doesn't want strip shown in EVE, so fecking what? Because I don't believe it would stop at shirts, why not get your pants off too? Because player X wants to use his avatar to show how morally deprieved he (she) is in-game. I also fail to muster the necessary indignation requited to rage about it. Maybe I fail in general
Merrya Minmatar BlackWing Cartel	Posted - 2011.01.27 11:37:00 - [49] You guys are totally over reacting. CCP is just embarressed about their underwear. I'm sure as soon as they release some sexy panties and bras we will get our shirtless option back. ----------------------------------------------- Check out my Rifter
Peter XZ Gallente	Posted - 2011.01.27 11:41:00 - [50] Edited by: Peter XZ on 27/01/2011 11:41:59 People who are desperate to feast their eyes on pixelated boobs all day long surely have been playing video games too long. C'mon guys the world's a beautiful place, opent that bedroom door you've padlocked cos you don't wanna see RL ppl, and get out there and contribute to society. Enjoy Eve in moderation, and then you won't be fixated so much about semi-naked pixel ppl :) Time Passes, Eternity Awaits, Jesus Saves, and no you can't take Eve with you.Hi to all my Eve Youtube friends, you kno who you are \o/ traditional500 channel

Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet	Posted - 2011.01.27 11:43:00 - [51] Edited by: Destination SkillQueue on 27/01/2011 11:44:39 Originally by: Mashie Saldana How many of the top 16 in Babes of New Eden show their bras? Yes, one as of this moment. Take that as a hint of what actaully is sexy and what isn't. I counted at least 4 with a few not clearly showing what they got. It's besides the point though. The bra option is very tastefully done, so there is no reason not to allow it to be chosen. A bra/bare chest + jacket seems to be a very popular option with females and males and it looks nice to boot.
Sophia Amelia Stone	Posted - 2011.01.27 11:45:00 - [52] Edited by: Sophia Amelia Stone on 27/01/2011 11:45:19 Originally by: Peter XZ Edited by: Peter XZ on 27/01/2011 11:41:59 People who are desperate to feast their eyes on pixelated boobs all day long surely have been playing video games too long. C'mon guys the world's a beautiful place, opent that bedroom door you've padlocked cos you don't wanna see RL ppl, and get out there and contribute to society. Enjoy Eve in moderation, and then you won't be fixated so much about semi-naked pixel ppl :) That's rather a narrow sighted view of things. Who says removing your shirt has to be sexual.
DEVIL Auduin	Posted - 2011.01.27 11:45:00 - [53] s
Jennifer Starling Amarr	Posted - 2011.01.27 11:46:00 - [54] Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 27/01/2011 11:46:36 Originally by: Destination SkillQueue The bra option is very tastefully done, so there is no reason not to allow it to be chosen. A bra + jacket seems to be a very popular option with females and males and it looks nice to boot. Well cough I don't think "tasteful" is the right word, it's not what i'd call stylish, to express it mildly. Doesn't mean I think it shouldn't be allowed ..
roigon	Posted - 2011.01.27 11:46:00 - [55] the fact that you think this is about some sort of moral crusade is just flabbergasting. I'm willing to bet that it probably just has some unforeseen consequence for incarna and they want to nip it in the but now, instead of discovering they can't fix it when it needs to be released.
Sophia Amelia Stone	Posted - 2011.01.27 11:50:00 - [56] Originally by: roigon the fact that you think this is about some sort of moral crusade is just flabbergasting. I'm willing to bet that it probably just has some unforeseen consequence for incarna and they want to nip it in the but now, instead of discovering they can't fix it when it needs to be released. You mean that they can't get body hair right, so easiest way to deal with it is cover up.
Tesl	Posted - 2011.01.27 11:53:00 - [57] For all the people saying how they don't like people in chat saying about boobs - there is a block button for a reason For all the people saying about pervs just wanting to walk around in bra and knickers - why even have your toon in just bra and knickers to start with if you then HAVE to cloth it. why not just do away with showing the skin and have the toon fully clothed already. Most of you complaining about seeing a bra, jesus grow up, its a game there pixelated representations. anyone in there right mind knows that if you want to see real crap like that google is your friend. So what if i want to show my bra, its not exactly showing anything else is it? what do you do when you go to the beach walk around with your eyes closed so you dont get offended? tell people to cover up so you cant see there bikini? Some people jesus. I call to a end to this madness, They quite happily let me take drugs to better my self in combat (Boosters), why cant i walk around in a garment that STILL COVERS MY ****? This is such a contraction in terms its unreal, PS i doubt this was anything to do with the a +18 rating, as all that does is make children want to play it more. Also if you think American rating has anything to do with this, then you lot obviously need to live more and go play some Korean MMO's that are on the market, hell you would cry if you did that at all the women in hardly anything running around.
nalgok	Posted - 2011.01.27 11:57:00 - [58] Originally by: Sophia Amelia Stone Originally by: roigon the fact that you think this is about some sort of moral crusade is just flabbergasting. I'm willing to bet that it probably just has some unforeseen consequence for incarna and they want to nip it in the but now, instead of discovering they can't fix it when it needs to be released. You mean that they can't get body hair right, so easiest way to deal with it is cover up. Or perhaps their algorithm to fit clothes around the mesh of a character has a bug that creeps up when a character has no shirt and start to walk, who is to tell. But it sure sounds more plausible then CCP caring about the moral fiber of the game.
Pookie McPook	Posted - 2011.01.27 12:01:00 - [59] On the one hand I forsee much angst being vented by Chesty McJubblies. On the other.....meh ----- Marmite. Rocket fuel of champions.
Count Winkelhoff	Posted - 2011.01.27 12:01:00 - [60] Originally by: Jada Maroo CCP has converted to Islam. Burkas are next, and MANDATORY BEARDS! I loled but eh....you could be right

Tesl	Posted - 2011.01.27 12:05:00 - [61] Originally by: nalgok Originally by: Sophia Amelia Stone Originally by: roigon the fact that you think this is about some sort of moral crusade is just flabbergasting. I'm willing to bet that it probably just has some unforeseen consequence for incarna and they want to nip it in the but now, instead of discovering they can't fix it when it needs to be released. You mean that they can't get body hair right, so easiest way to deal with it is cover up. Or perhaps their algorithm to fit clothes around the mesh of a character has a bug that creeps up when a character has no shirt and start to walk, who is to tell. But it sure sounds more plausible then CCP caring about the moral fiber of the game. As i stated previously, no one can comment on the moral high ground of this game, they let you take boosters which even in the descriptions has a startling accurate symptoms of taking real drugs, Ecstasy = booster (if the pilot can stop grinding his teeth long enough) Not to mention no profanity filter in chat, and we all know what will happen if they implemented that.
Sophia Amelia Stone	Posted - 2011.01.27 12:06:00 - [62] Anyway this whole must wear a shirt crap is a joke. A 6 year old (for example) can see people in their underwear, all they have to do is open a catalogue at the underwear section.
Peter XZ Gallente	Posted - 2011.01.27 12:07:00 - [63] Edited by: Peter XZ on 27/01/2011 12:08:28 Tesl, u wrote; "So what if i want to show my bra, its not exactly showing anything else is it? what do you do when you go to the beach? walk around with your eyes closed so you dont get offended? tell people to cover up so you cant see their bikini? " Only thing is, havent noticed too many beaches in space stations lately LOL Time Passes, Eternity Awaits, Jesus Saves, and no you can't take Eve with you.Hi to all my Eve Youtube friends, you kno who you are \o/ traditional500 channel
Pookie McPook	Posted - 2011.01.27 12:11:00 - [64] This character is naked from the neck down....what ya gonna do about THAT??! ----- Marmite. Rocket fuel of champions.
Tesl	Posted - 2011.01.27 12:11:00 - [65] Originally by: Peter XZ So what if i want to show my bra, its not exactly showing anything else is it? what do you do when you go to the beach? walk around with your eyes closed so you don't get offended? tell people to cover up so you cant see their bikini? Only thing is, haven't noticed too many beaches in space stations lately LOL was that the best counter argument you could come up with? I'm on about the fact your complaining about seeing a bit of pixelated flesh that obviously offends you so much you want to cry about it on the forum. Its the same principle whether its in space or on the beach. they want us to cover up, but its ok to take drugs so it gives us a false sense of security so we can best someone in combat? is that really the kinda of confusing message they are trying to send to people?
R'dier Erasers inc. Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2011.01.27 12:20:00 - [66] Completely unneeded and pointless change in the context of other things that happen in the game. If a future "demigod" wants to take a portrait of him/herself without a shirt there shouldn't be anything stopping that. Fail CCP.
Sophia Amelia Stone	Posted - 2011.01.27 12:23:00 - [67] Originally by: Mashie Saldana How many of the top 16 in Babes of New Eden show their bras? Yes, one as of this moment. Take that as a hint of what actaully is sexy and what isn't. It's not about what's sexy and what is not. It's about choice!
Turrell 1	Posted - 2011.01.27 12:25:00 - [68] Shirts are evil!
Aidan Patrick Zero Point Group	Posted - 2011.01.27 12:30:00 - [69] Edited by: Aidan Patrick on 27/01/2011 12:30:15 Lets just put it this way. If CCP is OK with having an official novel (EVE: The Empyrean Age) contain content where an Amarrian slave master is essentially forcing an underaged male slave to give him a mouth hug (If you need explanation of a mouth hug, check the link below) They should really just suck it up and let us have shirtless characters. Male and female. kthxbai. I just pressed the I win button. Mouth Hug Defined @ 3.30 here. edit for BB code - Aidan Patrick
R'dier Erasers inc. Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2011.01.27 12:31:00 - [70] Originally by: Sophia Amelia Stone Originally by: Mashie Saldana How many of the top 16 in Babes of New Eden show their bras? Yes, one as of this moment. Take that as a hint of what actaully is sexy and what isn't. It's not about what's sexy and what is not. It's about choice! Indeed, it's not that the new character creation would exactly be overflowing with options so that removing some of them would be a smart thing to do.

Lee Malone	Posted - 2011.01.27 12:43:00 - [71] Wants to see ( . )( . ) 's doesn't see any walks away anon' "If we aren't supposed to eat animals, why are they made out of meat?"
Carola Kessler	Posted - 2011.01.27 12:45:00 - [72] I've to say also, in Summer there are running around lots of girls likemyselfs with a Tanktop and nobody is screaming and goes blind while i do it in real world so another time denieng the option just not to wear a shirt is utterly B*S*T
SkinSin	Posted - 2011.01.27 12:48:00 - [73] Originally by: Sophia Amelia Stone It's not about what's sexy and what is not. It's about choice! Exactly. I was looking forward to the wonderful opportunities that the new CC would allow. Only to find that the options allowed were greatly reduced over the old CC. I was looking forward to creating a character that looked like me. In the end? Well: * Not allowed a cleft chin (not unless I suddenly become Caldari) * Not allowed glasses other than ridiculous aviators. * No option for a hairy chest. * No option for taller or shorter people. * Really, really, camp beard choices. * I tried to get blond hair, but the closest I could get was white, grey and yellow. No, instead I have to look like an identikit ladyboy (although with a wrinkly forehead), presumably because no-one at CCP actually resembles a real man! I was quite sad at not being able to make my avatar look like me. On top of all that there were: * very limited clothing options (1 style of "outer top", available in 2 colours; 3 types of trousers in various colours, 4 different t-shirts in a choice of 12 colours). * some very rubbish backgrounds. * very limited lighting modes. * less options on adornments. Seems the art department either wasn't as busy as they claimed or they need to employ more people. I mean, seriously, a choice between 2 tops both of with are the same, just in different colours??? That's not really a good choice is it??
El'Niaga Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2011.01.27 12:49:00 - [74] With so much wrong with this expansion and its patching process I'm so glad they felt this was of such priority to make this change now.....
Tesl	Posted - 2011.01.27 12:58:00 - [75] COMING IN THE NEXT PATCH - Due to someones mother catching there child bashing the bishop to the character creation screen, CCP are now removing the ability to adjust your boob size. they will be fully clothed from the outset with out the ability to unclothe them, zoom will be restricted to 10meters from your character so you can not zoom in on your boobs / arse or vag area. ALSO COMING IN THE NEXT PATCH - More options to make your male toon even more gay, police man and workmen helmets will be introduced, a selection of trousers showing your arse cheeks, more gay icon mustaches to be implemented, hand cuffs and leather pants. and the ability to make "your package" BIGGER. also for male characters, the ability to zoom up to .0 of a micron so you can make sure your hairy chest is growing. Very manly.
SkinSin	Posted - 2011.01.27 13:01:00 - [76] Originally by: Tesl COMING IN THE NEXT PATCH - Due to someones mother catching there child bashing the bishop to the character creation screen, CCP are now removing the ability to adjust your boob size. they will be fully clothed from the outset with out the ability to unclothe them, zoom will be restricted to 10meters from your character so you can not zoom in on your boobs / arse or vag area. ALSO COMING IN THE NEXT PATCH - More options to make your male toon even more gay, police man and workmen helmets will be introduced, a selection of trousers showing your arse cheeks, more gay icon mustaches to be implemented, hand cuffs and leather pants. and the ability to make "your package" BIGGER. also for male characters, the ability to zoom up to .0 of a micron so you can make sure your hairy chest is growing. Very manly. I nearly fell off my chair. Excellent!!
Mystica Shadowheart Amarr	Posted - 2011.01.27 13:04:00 - [77] This "fix" is so full of fail. Bad CCP, BAD!!!
Skippermonkey Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2011.01.27 16:12:00 - [78] Originally by: Aidan Patrick Futuristic societies are often imagined with very open sexuality. That is a good thing. By sci-fi authors that like to write about sex because they dont get to do it? You're waiting for an ibis, an ibis that will take you far away. You know where you hope this ibis will take you, but you can't be sure. But it doesn't matter - because we'll be together.
Faith Skor	Posted - 2011.01.27 16:46:00 - [79] Just a shirt... Thats not good enough .. I demand a burkka so nobody can crack one off looking at me
Daemeon Fyral Minmatar Encina Technologies Namtz' aar K'in	Posted - 2011.01.27 16:53:00 - [80] I think its a stupid idea to take away the ability to go shirtless as well. apart for the many many other issues the new character creator has given me (not the least of which being the vastly different bloodline looks) I was at least able to come up with a character that looked somewhat how I wanted him too. Now that look I have for him is loosely based on myself, and IRL I almost never actually wear shirts unless I absolutely have too. so why should my character be any different? and as for the argument of it being "cold in space" okay sure I could see say minmatar ships and stations being a bit drafty, maybee even caldari stations being a bit overly air conditioned. But I'm canadian, I walk around shirtless in the middle of winter, I'm sure my character could handle a bit of a breeze.

Cloning Service Duvolle Cloning Division	Posted - 2011.01.27 16:53:00 - [81] reposting from different thread CCP, by refusing to allow players to create a portrait without a 'complete set' of clothes, you are implying that the human body is something that people should be ashamed of If I want to create and show something beautiful using your char creator, why would you want to force me to cover it up? Edit: Just take a look at my portrait: Can you honestly say it is indecent/immoral to portray a woman clothed like this ? If you answered YES, just take a look at what real women actually wear in public in a country whose average temperature isn't SLIGHTLY above freezing http://timesofindia.hotklix.com/link/Entertainment/Bollywood/Anushka-Sharma-cleavage-Backless-outfit-Mijwan-Fashion-Show
Kaeda Maxwell Smit Intergalactic	Posted - 2011.01.27 20:01:00 - [82] Well so far, CCP seems to have allowed people to keep their current portraits, lets see if it stays that way after the 28th. I am still however very interested in that 'why?'. As it would still affect any future characters I'd make.
Steve Thomas Minmatar	Posted - 2011.01.27 20:05:00 - [83] CCP aparently feels that half naked boobies are an unfair nerf to the other male player. .end of line. ---- If you think your too paranoid to play EvE... Then you clearly are not paranoid enough to play EvE
Barakkus	Posted - 2011.01.27 20:06:00 - [84] Originally by: SaS 23 Remember CCP is Icelandic, hell ... they dont even know what a bikini is or remember to ever seen one Orly? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npawmHVaf-E - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
I AM SPARTACUS	Posted - 2011.01.27 20:10:00 - [85] I want to be shirtless too dammit! I AM SPARTACUS!
Ana Vyr	Posted - 2011.01.27 20:38:00 - [86] You can take your shirt off in WoW... Not really understanding this change considering other "T" rated games allow this. I don't really care that much, but to me, a hardcore sci fi game is kinda lacking without a more advanced view (less prudish) on things like nudity.
Dusk Tsur	Posted - 2011.01.27 20:43:00 - [87] Dare to be bold, pilot. But not too bold, please.
Myra2007 Millstone Industries	Posted - 2011.01.27 20:45:00 - [88] Originally by: nalgok But it sure sounds more plausible then CCP caring about the moral fiber of the game. This is a teen rated game and CCP has removed similar content from the game prior to this. So its not only plausible but it's a given. -- Originally by: Professor Slocombe I will only buy tickets if the prize is your stuff and you leave Eve. Forever. You irritating self obsessed cretin.
Hroya	Posted - 2011.01.27 20:53:00 - [89] Well that would suck. Buying tickets for the exotic dancers in station and when the curtain lifts a group of nuns are wrapped around a crusifix will be a serious trauma for little old woodpecker. Seriously though, i didnt know there was such a thing as regulated morale in eve. with all the pew pew, spying, thieving, ganking, stealing, drama and related schnitzel going on, a set of boobies can hardly be a huge deal. But i guess the ones doing the rating dont walk among the "normal" people.
Mindraak	Posted - 2011.01.27 22:16:00 - [90] Originally by: W1rlW1nd ... this ... is ... a FANTASY MURDER SPACE GAME! i would not want my daughter or mother playing this game because within 5 minutes they would get brutally ganked, have their loot stolen, get insulted in local and start crying and want to go back 2W. you obviously don't know my mother... the local would be empty and every player in 15 jump radius would pay her commision from whatever they're doing just to keep her away. Bloody hell even Kuvakei would purposely skip the system she's in and to the OP > I agree but I'm more worried about the fact that after mileniums of evolution we look like humans AGAIN ?!? how that happened ? plus everything that SkinSin said. My alt is a trader and I wont him fat as fok and really sleazy so he can salivate looking at you shirtless boobs

Aidan Patrick Zero Point Group	Posted - 2011.01.27 22:23:00 - [91] CCP HTFU PLEASE! - Aidan Patrick
Sader Rykane Amarr Midnight Sentinels Midnight Space Syndicate	Posted - 2011.01.27 22:24:00 - [92] lol? This coming from the company that gave gallente plastic see through clothing?
okst666	Posted - 2011.01.27 22:29:00 - [93] Originally by: Sader Rykane lol? This coming from the company that gave gallente plastic see through clothing? that sounds goooood...tell me more...
Annacron Adaptive	Posted - 2011.01.27 23:15:00 - [94] Oh yeah CCP is so hardcore aren't they. What angers me the most is I didn't even see this coming. I do wonder if that red skin-tight latex-looking outfit in the screenshots from the wincarnation demo will be avaliable at any point, an if so how long it takes before they ban that. But then again, wincarnation won't be anything like anyone imagines right now. Oh no, it's going to be so bad you wonder if the demo was from the same thing, or if they created it separately to make it look like something close the players wanted. And btw how can we possibly expect exotic dancers in bars now? That'll be another thing only for the demo... or well, there probably won't be any bars at all, and if there are they'll only serve quafe. 'Cause you know what goes on in those things right? Drinking! Omg! (and that's normal quafe, not quafe ultra or anything 'cuz that's like teh drugz!) But we all know CCP doesn't care. Their goal of making the "ultimate sci-fi mmo" has not been present in anyone remotely importad to gamedesign for years now. It's all about making money. I dare you to be surprised if it turns ut you have to microtransation yourself a "station pass" to be able to "walk in station". CCP won't be sawyed even if 50k subscribers leave the game over night (which we all know will not happen). Heck, they'd probably see that as a positive thing. "Omg finally those annoying ppl went away!" The only thing, THE *only* thing, that could possibly change CCP's mind about anything, is if something-like 50k non -eve players say "change [feature] and we'll pay". Originally by: Amarr is so overpowered, if an amarr shuttle warps in, everyone on grid starts taking residual damage.
Doctor Mabuse	Posted - 2011.01.27 23:22:00 - [95] Edited by: Doctor Mabuse on 27/01/2011 23:22:25 lol And you people thought you'd be able to open Stripclubs when WiS was released ------------------------------------ Who's trip-trapping on my bridge?
Barakkus	Posted - 2011.01.28 00:00:00 - [96] Someone probably found an bewb exploit and they had to make us wear shirts instead of forced mastectomies. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
Olleybear Minmatar I R' Carebear	Posted - 2011.01.28 00:43:00 - [97] I havnt read through every single post on this thread, so my response to the op's question may have already been said. Ask yourself this question: Does the lack of a shirt add or detract from the 'image' and 'feel' of what Eve is? Eve is dark. Eve is dangerous. Eve is.... Eve. Do bouncing exposed boobies add to that? Or does dark clothing covered characters add to it? It is a photographers interpretation of the harsher 'look' that I believe CCP is trying to project with Eve. CCP wont be introducing the Funky Chicken Dance emote or pink polkadot walls into the game for the very same reason. Its my belief that is why CCP made the change. It has absolutely nothing to do with them wanting to add puritan values or restricting our freedoms.
sartorii Genco Fidelas Constans	Posted - 2011.01.28 00:54:00 - [98] Bad decision all the way around. Even the initial 'bikini' was less revealing than much of the clothing that is in several mainstream fantasy games at current. Serious failure CCP. Keep your morality out of the sandbox. I mean seriously since when is a bikini clad female more offensive than murder, betrayal, theft, sabotage, terrorism, genocide, slavery etc... all of which are inherent to Eve. I mean seriously? Exotic Dancers have been in the game for years. The Elite Slave icon wears nearly nothing. Many of the original Gal clothing was COMPLETELY TRANSPARENT. 0/10 CCP. *"disconnect and self destruct one mullet at at time" [sic]*
Dreya Renthold	Posted - 2011.01.28 01:25:00 - [99] Originally by: Lynx Borealis Originally by: Thuul'Khalat Blame the Americans. Seriously. It is not CCPs morals that are being imposed, but American "morals" The kind where decapitation ang graphic violence hardly raises an eyebrow, but nudity causes havoc and will scar youngsters for life. CCP wants a Teen ERSB rating on EVE, and as such have no choice but to cater to this madness. Yeah, the whole nation freaks out when there is nipple in TV. But it's ok to show TV series and movies all day long that show million different way to kill a man. USA needs to get laid. Seriously. All of the above is so true. I'm American. This is a good and often a very annoying thing. We are not all the same. However, those of use who DON'T think this way are in the minority and thus can't change these things yet. Remember, the U.S. was founded by Puritans. People so uptight the British kicked them out. (That was a joke. You should be laughing right now.) Wait till the U.S. is as old as the rest of the countries in the world, then MAYBE we will loosen up. Till then I would like to hear why CCP made this change to the character creator. I disagree with it. But it will not affect my play at all. It would simply be interesting to hear why such a conservative approach to character creation has occurred with such a liberal company.
Khalia Nestune Misfit Toys Clockwork Pineapple	Posted - 2011.01.28 01:29:00 - [100] Obvious reason is obvious: Lawsuit avoidance.

Tegan Karus	Posted - 2011.01.28 01:36:00 - [101] I assumed it was because the bra is terribly basic and badly rendered and obviously not designed to be seen outside the CC. Im fully expecting better stuff like that later on. Not sure what CCP think though.
Steve Thomas Minmatar	Posted - 2011.01.28 01:41:00 - [102] sue them for what exactly? being more modestly dressed than some of the Asian MMOs that are marketed in the US and Europe? and seriously if they wanted to avoid lawsuits they would have simply stuck to a AO rateing for the game (or not gotten into game developement in the first place considering they were sued for haveing corpes in the game then announcing (as a joke) that one of the developers was making a corps launcher that worked like the snowball launcher. .end of line. ---- If you think your too paranoid to play EvE... Then you clearly are not paranoid enough to play EvE
Sophia Amelia Stone	Posted - 2011.01.28 01:47:00 - [103] Originally by: Khalia Nestune Obvious reason is obvious: Lawsuit avoidance. Well that reason is not obvious to me, where's your evidence? I know at least some Americans play other MMOs with boobs in them without any problem. So why should this game be any different? I'm wondering if it more a courtesy to a few countries on religious grounds, like women covering up. That's assuming people from those religions play this game. That my best guess so far.
Syphon Lodian Gallente	Posted - 2011.01.28 01:58:00 - [104] This is me giving a ****. and also, probably has something to do with EVE being rated T for Teen. Yes, silly hm. Less skin, the better to skirt the ESRB with. Murder and genocide are cool though, that fits within the confines of the globalist message.
Sophia Amelia Stone	Posted - 2011.01.28 02:13:00 - [105] Originally by: Syphon Lodian This is me giving a ****. and also, probably has something to do with EVE being rated T for Teen. Yes, silly hm. Less skin, the better to skirt the ESRB with. Murder and genocide are cool though, that fits within the confines of the globalist message. If it's to do with rating then it does not give much faith in CCP not even knowing what they can add as content. I checked on another site it does show a rating of 12, which is kind of low considering the average age was supposed to be 28 some time back. The actual game mechanics and the kinds of things this game teaches, I find also strange that the rating is set so low.
laksmi2	Posted - 2011.01.28 02:24:00 - [106] ccps greed literaly knows no limits. everything needs to be seen in this context.
Dreya Renthold	Posted - 2011.01.28 02:28:00 - [107] Originally by: Sophia Amelia Stone Originally by: Syphon Lodian This is me giving a ****. and also, probably has something to do with EVE being rated T for Teen. Yes, silly hm. Less skin, the better to skirt the ESRB with. Murder and genocide are cool though, that fits within the confines of the globalist message. If it's to do with rating then it does not give much faith in CCP not even knowing what they can add as content. I checked on another site it does show a rating of 12, which is kind of low considering the average age was supposed to be 28 some time back. The actual game mechanics and the kinds of things this game teaches, I find also strange that the rating is set so low. This is due to the rating system being based on content and not game play. The actual online game play in eve is unrated. The things the game was designed to do give it the low rating.
DeMichael Crimson Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2011.01.28 02:29:00 - [108] Heh, don't know where you all get your information about the USA being a bunch of Puritan religious zealots that cringe at the sight of skin. Maybe it's like that in some backwater rural areas but for the most part, especially in the big city's, Americans are very liberal and open minded about showing and seeing skin. Hollywood movies, TV shows, billboards, posters, magazines, etc. in general show a lot more skin than you'll ever see in this game. Sport's Illustrated Swimsuit Edition, Victoria's Secret, etc. are classic examples to say the least. I live in Southern California, USA, two blocks from the beach and it's nothing but T and A everywhere. Go out night clubbing and you'll see lot's of females scantily clad showing lot's of skin, etc. I could go on but I think you get the point. This decision by CCP isn't about morality since the game content clearly isn't moral. It's about them not giving us the freedom of choice and us not being able to choose how we want our characters represented in this supposedly sandbox game. Will I rage quit this game? No. Am I very disappointed? Yes. Will this decision affect the future of Eve? Maybe. This is a game that is filled with a lot of diverse very mature content and players should have the freedom to express that with their avatars however they see fit. *DeMichael Crimson paints half his face blue, dons a kilt and does an impression of Mel Gibson in Braveheart yelling 'Freedom'.
Elldranga	Posted - 2011.01.28 02:31:00 - [109] Oh Noes! There's not an option for me to go stark naked in eve! Clearly it's all a conspiracy and an attempt by "THE MAN" to shove his morals down my throat. Sheesh... get a life. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
Sophia Amelia Stone	Posted - 2011.01.28 02:33:00 - [110] Originally by: Dreya Renthold Originally by: Sophia Amelia Stone Originally by: Syphon Lodian This is me giving a ****. and also, probably has something to do with EVE being rated T for Teen. Yes, silly hm. Less skin, the better to skirt the ESRB with. Murder and genocide are cool though, that fits within the confines of the globalist message. If it's to do with rating then it does not give much faith in CCP not even knowing what they can add as content. I checked on another site it does show a rating of 12, which is kind of low considering the average age was supposed to be 28 some time back. The actual game mechanics and the kinds of things this game teaches, I find also strange that the rating is set so low. This is due to the rating system being based on content and not game play. The actual online game play in eve is unrated. The things the game was designed to do give it the low rating. Which kind of makes a nonsense out of the rating system, you would have thought CCP would have been a bit more responsible than that.

DeMichael Crimson Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2011.01.28 02:38:00 - [111] Originally by: Elldranga Oh Noes! There's not an option for me to go stark naked in eve! Clearly it's all a conspiracy and an attempt by "THE MAN" to shove his morals down my throat. Sheesh... get a life. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. Did you see the input sockets on the back of your avatar in Character Creation? Does 'The Matrix' ring a bell? You do know that you're naked when you're in your pod, right?
Sophia Amelia Stone	Posted - 2011.01.28 02:46:00 - [112] Edited by: Sophia Amelia Stone on 28/01/2011 02:46:52 Originally by: DeMichael Crimson Originally by: Elldranga Oh Noes! There's not an option for me to go stark naked in eve! Clearly it's all a conspiracy and an attempt by "THE MAN" to shove his morals down my throat. Sheesh... get a life. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. Did you see the input sockets on the back of your avatar in Character Creation? Does 'The Matrix' ring a bell? You do know that you're naked when you're in your pod, right? Naked in the pod is true, but you can't see into the pod so the pod is effectively your clothes. Just saying!
Sahmul The Grimreapers.	Posted - 2011.01.28 03:00:00 - [113] So as far as I can tell the prevailing defense of CCP removing one of the already very limited options in the new character creator is that being shirtless promotes the objectification of women. Really?! Would these white knights therefore contend that cultures that require there women to be completely covered up do not objectify women? I oppose this change because it removes options, for characters of both genders. To assume that I oppose it out of some disturbed fascination with pixelated breasts is an insulting stereotype of me, and actually betrays the fact that these people are themselves objectifying women.
Sophia Amelia Stone	Posted - 2011.01.28 03:06:00 - [114] Originally by: Sahmul So as far as I can tell the prevailing defense of CCP removing one of the already very limited options in the new character creator is that being shirtless promotes the objectification of women. Really?! Would these white knights therefore contend that cultures that require there women to be completely covered up do not objectify women? I oppose this change because it removes options, for characters of both genders. To assume that I oppose it out of some disturbed fascination with pixelated breasts is an insulting stereotype of me, and actually betrays the fact that these people are themselves objectifying women. Well if you had to cover one up and did not cover the other up, then you would be accused of being sexist. Funny old world.
Tegan Karus	Posted - 2011.01.28 03:08:00 - [115] Originally by: Sahmul So as far as I can tell the prevailing defense of CCP removing one of the already very limited options in the new character creator is that being shirtless promotes the objectification of women. Really?! Would these white knights therefore contend that cultures that require there women to be completely covered up do not objectify women? I oppose this change because it removes options, for characters of both genders. To assume that I oppose it out of some disturbed fascination with pixelated breasts is an insulting stereotype of me, and actually betrays the fact that these people are themselves objectifying women. I hope you have some basis for saying this is because of the objectification of women and are not just assuming CCP's stance. I stand by my assumtion that the undergarments on the CC model were just to avoid having to render nipples and not because CCP is being prude. CCP are a group of erotic adventurers of the most depraved kind. Fact. They just want time to sort out the rendering.
Barakkus	Posted - 2011.01.28 03:11:00 - [116] Originally by: Tegan Karus CCP are a group of erotic adventurers of the most depraved kind. Fact. Pixplzthnx - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
Sahmul The Grimreapers.	Posted - 2011.01.28 03:12:00 - [117] Originally by: Tegan Karus Originally by: Sahmul So as far as I can tell the prevailing defense of CCP removing one of the already very limited options in the new character creator is that being shirtless promotes the objectification of women. Really?! Would these white knights therefore contend that cultures that require there women to be completely covered up do not objectify women? I oppose this change because it removes options, for characters of both genders. To assume that I oppose it out of some disturbed fascination with pixelated breasts is an insulting stereotype of me, and actually betrays the fact that these people are themselves objectifying women. I hope you have some basis for saying this is because of the objectification of women and are not just assuming CCP's stance. I stand by my assumtion that the undergarments on the CC model were just to avoid having to render nipples and not because CCP is being prude. CCP are a group of erotic adventurers of the most depraved kind. Fact. They just want time to sort out the rendering. Link to your "Fact"? I don't pretend to know what the thinking at CCP is, and if you read my post carefully you will see that I did not in fact state that I thought it was the reason. What I actually said was that I had noticed most of the "Yay! CCP is making everyone wear shirts" crowd is defending the action by claiming that shirtless women somehow objectifies them.
Saint Lazarus Pwn 'N Play Chaos Theory Alliance	Posted - 2011.01.28 03:22:00 - [118] CCP dont back down, I dont care about pixel boobs but I do care about having less freaks in EvE obsessed with their sexy Avatars. +1 to CCP's decision to nerf boobs before its mandatory to not have a shirt ----------------- My EvE Comic
Kaya Divine Gallente Kittens Factory	Posted - 2011.01.28 03:26:00 - [119] Its not only about girls. Its also about us boys who like other boys! Hippie movement ftw, lets all run wild and free! Shoot your shot...
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2011.01.28 03:33:00 - [120] I want to be able to dress like this (warning, NSFW, string bikini catalogue) In the meantime, the level of outrage expressed on the forums indicates that the microPLEX market for string bikinis will be a big earner for CCP. -- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel]

Tegan Karus	Posted - 2011.01.28 03:34:00 - [121] Originally by: Kaya Divine Its not only about girls. Its also about us boys who like other boys! Hippie movement ftw, lets all run wild and free! Power to you Kaya!
Shaera Taam Minmatar Minmatar Death Squad Broken Chains Alliance	Posted - 2011.01.28 06:37:00 - [122] Originally by: Barakkus Originally by: SaS 23 Remember CCP is Icelandic, hell ... they dont even know what a bikini is or remember to ever seen one Orly? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npawmHVaf-E barakkus, thank you for giving me one of the best things ive ever seen in my life... thank you! __________________________________________________ Gravity: It's not just a good idea, it's the law!" --Adam Savage, Mythbusters


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